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Quest Means Business

Employees Call For Board To Resign After Altman Fired; Microsoft Stock Hits All-Time High; Hostage Families Meet With Israeli PM, War Cabinet; Premature Babies Evacuated To Egypt From Al-Shifa; Far-Right Outsider Milei Wins Argentina's Presidency; Far-Right Outsider Milei Wins Argentine Presidency; The Challenges Of Transforming Argentina's Economy; U.S. Markets Rally To Start Thanksgiving Week. Aired 3-4p ET

Aired November 20, 2023 - 15:00   ET



RICHARD QUEST, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST: An hour to the closing bell, and the November rally continues, although it's going to be a shorter week this

week. And that's a nice little mountain climb in a way. We're heading towards the best of the day. Let's see if it hauls over the course of the

day of the market and the event that everybody is talking about.

Employees at OpenAI are threatening to quit en masse unless the board resigns and Chief Exec Sam Altman is reinstated.

In Israel, families of Hamas hostages are pressing the Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu to ensure their loved ones' safe return.

And Javier Milei pledged to dollarize the Argentinian economy. Now, he's won the presidency. Can he do it, the uphill battle to make it happen?

I'm back in New York. Welcome to New York. It's Monday. It's November the 20th. I am Richard Quest in New York as elsewhere. Of course, I mean


Good evening. We begin tonight with OpenAI in turmoil, as more than 500 employees threaten to quit over the ouster of the CEO Sam Altman, who seems

to have already gone.

The employees are accusing the board of directors of mishandling Altman's firing and say there's been no evidence that Altman was dishonest with the

company's directors. Now, they're calling for the board itself to resign.

Among the workers who signed this letter was the board member, Ilya Sutskever. There, you see the board members besides, of course, the two,

Greg and Altman, who have gone. You can see exactly how -- those are, we assume, the ones that must have voted in favor.

OpenAI's chief scientist, who also tweeted he regrets participating -- this is Ilya. He regrets participating in the board's actions. So one assumes

that at least four of this -- three or four of this lot all voted for Altman to be pushed.

And Microsoft, which is OpenAI's biggest shareholder, announced that Altman would now join its own research division. You can see Microsoft shares

sharply, $378. It's a record high.

Anna Stewart is with me. We'll pass this into various bits, if we may, Anna, because do we know -- I mean, we saw the board there. There were six

members of the board. But assuming some of them vote for him not to go, do we know how all this came about?

ANNA STEWART, CNN REPORTER: Well, why he was fired is actually a really kind of murky question because the board actually said on Friday that

Altman was not consistently candid in his communications with the board. But that's really all we got. There's been a lot of speculation, Richard,

about whether or not this was really to do with Sam Altman and his plan to increasingly commercialize OpenAI for the proper arm of the business,

whether that man, he was getting more likes [ph] in the case of safety elements.

QUEST: Right.

STEWART: Maybe he was too big a voice, and he was overshadowing the board. All of these, though, speculation.

QUEST: All right. Anna, I want you to look at this chart of the organizational structure at OpenAI. And you'll see from here, the board of

directors is at the top, but the board of directors is only part of the not-for-profit.

If you follow the line down to its logical conclusion, you come to the profitable bit. That's the bit that Microsoft has the investment in, not

the not-for-profit with the board whether we had to be responsible for.

STEWART: It's a complicated structure. And, effectively, what you're seeing here is a company that was created as a not-for-profit, not really keeping

up when it created entity within itself that was for profit, and not really reflecting that within the board. And therefore, making the most terrible

rookie board mistake, which is inside there, you can ask the CEO without speaking to some of your major shareholders, i.e., Microsoft, which involve

the huge fallout we then saw all weekend.

QUEST: So, Microsoft, which has spent a fortune -- I mean, first of all, is there any risk or likelihood that Altman goes back?

STEWART: I'm fascinated. Honestly, there was a tweet that we've had in the last hour from Sam Altman, saying, "We have more unity and commitment of

focus than ever before. We are all going to work together some way or other, and I'm so excited. One team, one mission." Whichever .

QUEST: Now .

STEWART: . way you swing it, either .


STEWART: . Sam Altman thinks he is bringing the 500 plus employees who have signed this letter over to Microsoft, or he thinks he's heading back there

with Microsoft blessing.


QUEST: Forty-nine percent, but I mean, they haven't got power over that board.

STEWART: They don't and they don't have -- Microsoft doesn't even have a seat on the board of OpenAI. They would like one, and I think that's one of

the things that were being discussed over this weekend.

But what do you do with the company? Yes, this is an acquisition if 500 employees move over to Microsoft. You know, the IP stays with OpenAI. But

this is the talent.

And when you're talking about artificial intelligence, so much has to do with the engineering, the talent, the .

QUEST: Right.

STEWART: . experience. What will they be left with?

QUEST: Anna, thank you.

OpenAI's board, as we were just talking about, waited until the very last moment to tell Microsoft was firing Altman. CNN Contributor Kara Swisher

said Microsoft stands to gain in the long run.


KARA SWISHER, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: They're all going to Microsoft. So Microsoft just bought this company for nothing is really because, you know, every day

in Silicon Valley, as you know, poppy talent walks out the door. I mean, they certainly have IP and all kinds of tech and things like that. But it's

the people here that created it. And I think that's a problem. And so Microsoft just bought this company for nothing, including its top leaders

and probably almost all of its employees.

Now, it probably doesn't have to keep with the terms of the contract it has with OpenAI, because they don't have employees to meet the contract needs

that they had. And so there's billions and billions not going to be invested here by Microsoft, and they're going to take that money, invest it

in their own people, and then own the thing anyway.


QUEST: Kara Swisher there.

Roger McNamee is the cofounder and managing director of Elevation Partners, a PE-funded investor in tech and media joins me.

For goodness sake, Roger, I mean, what a cock-up. How on earth does a board manage to fire their star without telling the principal external investor

and expect it all to go smoothly?

ROGER MCNAMEE, CO-FOUNDER, ELEVATION PARTNERS: Well, Richard, I think you put your finger exactly on the problem, which is that the organization of

OpenAI is ridiculous on the face of it. But I think the piece where I may have a different view than Kara is that I believe that Microsoft has

controlled the products of OpenAI since it made the investment that took it to 49%, that OpenAI, like so many Silicon Valley companies, was really a

creature of the world of free capital and zero percent interest rates.

And when rates started to rise, I think there was enormous financial pressure, and they went to Microsoft in a position of great weakness. And I

think Microsoft negotiated a deal from there where Microsoft effectively had all the economic benefits of whatever it was that OpenAI was going to


And I think what this deal does is actually mess that up .

QUEST: Right.

MCNAMEE: . because the buffer, having OpenAI appearing to be the one doing the innovation, was giving Microsoft the latitude to be the adult in the

room. And now, this cock-up, as you described it, is -- has brought Microsoft, you know .

QUEST: But how -- what would .

MCNAMEE: . even a cock-up than .

QUEST: . but what would Altman have done? I mean, what on earth would the board of directors -- and we showed the board. Essentially, there are six

members that would want to fire him in such public circumstances. They must have known what was going to happen.

MCNAMEE: Well, and to be clear, Richard, I wonder if one of the problems here was that they did not fully understand how much control of the

situation Microsoft had and how much value Microsoft was getting. Effectively, you know, they describe the deal that Microsoft paid $13

billion for 49% of OpenAI, but the reality of that is we only have their word for it because it was services they traded. And the value of the

surfaces may have been way less than that, because from the point .

QUEST: Right.

MCNAMEE: . of view of Sam Altman, a higher valuation served his interests. So he wanted to make it look like they were buying it at a higher price.

QUEST: What do you think Altman did that cause the board to fire him?

MCNAMEE: Well, like I said, I don't know for certain. But I would be willing to bet that it has to do with commercial interests and maximizing

personal gain as opposed to moving forward a scientific agenda. I do think .

QUEST: Right.

MCNAMEE: . the (inaudible) is that the board is very focused on research, and Altman is very focused on commercialization.

QUEST: Well, as we showed in the structure, the - if you like, the original part that the board is in control of is the not-for-profit. It is that last

bit there which is the profitable bit. So do you think, bearing in mind, the tweet that Anna Stewart was just talking about, I hope you heard that,

that somehow .


QUEST: . somehow Altman it's going to try to put Humpty Dumpty back together again with Microsoft, with OpenAI and everybody's going to do a


MCNAMEE: Let's -- to be clear, let's assume for the moment they do that. They're still in the same place they were in on Thursday, which is they

have a product that is unbelievably expensive to create and to operate, where there are very few use cases that are valuable enough to justify the



And as a consequence, they've had to create the illusion that this product is inevitable, and that Microsoft was endorsing it and embedding it in all

their products.

At the same time, if you're a corporation, if you do a really detailed analysis product, you discover very quickly it does not do what they tell

you what it's going to do. That essentially, this is .

QUEST: Right.

MCNAMEE: . one of the classic things of doing a magic trick and getting people to fall for it.

QUEST: Now, I want to know, are you saying that ChatGPT isn't all it says it is?

MCNAMEE: Oh, definitely not. No, no, I mean, this is a product -- the design of which is to create answers that are plausible. There's no effort

to be accurate. It cannot distinguish between fact and fiction.

And as a consequence, the number of places where that's actually useful is pretty small. And in many of them, it requires you violating copyright law

or personal privacy laws in order to get the value out of the product.

So I look at this and go, it's not all that obvious to me that even Microsoft will be successful at making this into something that's valuable

to corporations, I have no doubt they can sell it, but I don't know that corporations are going to get the value they're expecting.

QUEST: Roger, I'm very grateful for you this evening. I'm grateful. Thank you for your time, putting it into perspective.

MCNAMEE: Much the Disney lawsuit over the theft of their logos, that's a huge deal, and Microsoft is on the hook for all of that.

QUEST: We'll talk about that again. Thank you.

MCNAMEE: Thank you.

QUEST: Yes, we'll talk about that. That's very good.

It's QUEST MEANS BUSINESS, start of a new week together. Oh, in a moment, a convoy of ambulances has evacuated the premature babies from Al-Shifa

Hospital in Gaza. They are now in Egypt. They're receiving medical treatment. In a moment.


QUEST: Relatives of some of those taken hostage by Hamas are meeting today with the Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and his war cabinet.

A man whose son was seized says he wants a commitment in writing that every captive will return home. The IDF released two dramatic pieces of

surveillance footage over the weekend, saying this video shows a hostage being forced into Al-Shifa Hospital by Hamas on October the 7th. The IDF

says the clip shows another hostage wield through the hospital with a bloodied hand. We can't independently verify the content of either video.


Jeremy Diamond is in Sderot, joins me now. I suppose -- I can hear two -- I have sort of heard Hamas' argument, which is, no it isn't, but even if it

does, it shows that, you know, they were receiving medical treatment. So, I'm none the wiser in a sense of the significant.

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, well, the Israeli military says that this is simply more evidence that Hamas militants have, you know, been

known to use Al-Shifa Hospital. They say that one of the individuals, who was being taken hostage -- who was taken hostage and who was marched into

Al-Shifa Hospital, was not injured, although the other person clearly was.

And health ministry officials in Gaza, which is, of course, controlled by Hamas, they insist that this is simply proof that, you know, no one was

refused medical care at hospitals in Gaza. But what Israeli officials are trying to paint here, Richard, is a kind of broader picture. And they are

putting together all of these different pieces of evidence to try and argue that Hamas has used hospitals like Al-Shifa Hospital for their operations,

whether that is above ground, getting ease of access through the hospital's main entrance or below ground that the Israeli military released yesterday,

the first videos from inside that tunnel shaft and inside one of the tunnels that they say is under Al-Shifa Hospital.

We've actually been able to geolocate that video and confirmed that it was taken inside the Al-Shifa medical complex. Inside that tunnel, what you can

see is the kind of very typical curved ceiling that is very typical of Hamas tunnels in Gaza, and then you get to a door. What is behind that

door, we don't know yet, and nor does the Israeli military, because they say it may be booby trapped, and therefore, they haven't opened it yet.

So while the Israeli military is perhaps presenting more evidence that indicates that Hamas has indeed -- does indeed operate tunnels below Al-

Shifa medical center, they have yet to fully prove that that massive command-and-control center, which not only they, but also the United States

alleges exist below Al-Shifa. And Israeli military officials making very clear that that process of uncovering the full extent of what they say

exist underground could take days, if not weeks.

QUEST: Right. And other attacks on other hospitals?

DIAMOND: That's right. Today, the Indonesian hospital, 12 people were killed there by Israeli tank fire, according to local health officials. The

Israeli military, for its part, says that it did carry out an attack, but that it was returning fire to gunfire that was coming from inside the

hospital. They said that they did not shell the hospital.

Nonetheless, the result here is that 12 people are dead, among them patients and at least one medical staffer from this hospital. And what's

concerning here, of course, is it's just the latest example of people dying inside what should typically be protected civilian infrastructure.

Over the weekend, we saw that dozens of people were killed in a strike on a UN school in Gaza. The Israeli military says that it is looking into the

incident. Egypt and Qatar have already blamed the Israeli military for this attack.

But the case that Israel has been making for weeks now as it is targeting the civilian infrastructure is that these buildings effectively lose their

protected status when they are being used by Hamas militants to carry out their attacks. That is actually accurate under international law.

The question is, whether in all of these instances, the Israeli military has met the burden of proof that they are indeed legitimate military

targets. That much is not clear, at best, and by some international groups, being condemned as not at all the case.

QUEST: Jeremy, I'm grateful. Thank, you sir.

An Egyptian official says 28 premature babies have now arrived from the Al- Shifa Hospital. The Palestinian Red Crescent brought them to the Rafah Crossing. There, they were met by doctors waiting, ambulances with

incubators. The Egyptian official says the babies are being treated at two different hospitals.

Eleni Giokos is in Cairo. These (inaudible) and these are the lucky ones.

ELENI GIOKOS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, they are the lucky ones. And frankly, look, the Egyptian health ministry has been waiting for these babies for

over a week now. In fact, Richard, when we first arrived, we were told there were 36 babies. Five of them have died, two on Saturday night, just

on the cusp of them getting evacuated and brought into Egypt. It was about creating that safe passage from Al-Shifa Hospital to then drive them down

to Rafah, and then through the -- to the Egyptian side.

This entire process required so many bodies to come together. The World Health Organization, the UN, and, of course, to ensure that it was safe


You've just spoken about what is happening around Al-Shifa. We know there was an IDF operation there, essentially leaving these babies trapped




GIOKOS (voice over): Wield to safety as they make their way from chaos to calm, finally, in Egypt. A race against time to get them out, but a

delicate process to move them. The journey to bring them here, long and arduous.

(BABIES crying.)

Cries for help from the world's tiniest victims. Their first stop, the Al Hilal Emirati hospital in Rafah. 28 babies made the grueling journey from

Gaza. That condition, doctors say, delicate and difficult.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): We're conducting tests on all of those babies. And they were given fluids and needed medication according to

their condition. For now, they are in a difficult, stable condition, but this condition might deteriorate.

GIOKOS (voice over): Now, the WHO says many of them are in critical condition, and all are fighting infections. They have endured life-

threatening ordeals, trapped inside Al-Shifa Hospital in Gaza City as the war raged around the hospital complex last week.

Al-Shifa ran out of oxygen, clean water, and fuel. Moved by hand and laid on these beds, no incubators, and placed next to hot water bottles to stay

warm. Doctors say five of the babies didn't make it. Conditions too harsh for such vulnerable patients.

But ultimately, it was the war in and around Al-Shifa that made their evacuation complex and dangerous. The Egyptians, waiting for over a week at

the border, disappointed day after day, knowing that every minute counted, but the decision out of their hands to get these babies to safety.

For this father, after weeks of living in fear, after being separated from his son, finally reunited.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Thank God we now feel that our son is safe after not seeing him for more than two weeks. We didn't know

whether he was dead or alive.

GIOKOS (voice over): Only four mothers and six nurses accompanied the 28 babies. Lubna Al-Sayek [ph] describes her nightmare.

(LUBNA AL-SAYEK [ph] speaking in foreign language.)

LUBNA AL-SAYEK [ph] (through translator): During the siege, there was no milk. The condition worsened. She went back to zero, and she relied solely

on artificial oxygen.

GIOKOS (voice over): As for the others, it is unknown where their parents and family are, or if they're still alive.

Now, in the hands of the Egyptians, their lives so fragile, their future forever defined by this war.


GIOKOS: So, Richard, I mean, we've just seen there some of that harrowing experience. These little babies are going through this entire process just

to get the care that they need, Richard.

And I tell you that covering the story for the past week has really been heartbreaking, because the resources were available. They were just across

the border. The big issue was always how to get them there.

Look, they're in hospitals in Egypt right now. The serious cases have come to Cairo intervention, of course, by the medical staff here. And the point

is to try and ensure that they are stabilized.

The doctors were telling us that the babies were so stressed when they were moved down to the south of Gaza. They weren't strong enough to get over the

border yesterday, and that is why they came today.

QUEST: Eleni Giokos is in Cairo, where it's half past 10 at night. Thank you, Eleni.

Argentina has a new president-elect, and he wants this -- the US dollar -- that he says will define the country's economic future. Dollarization and

Javier Milei's plan, we'll talk about it after the break.



QUEST: The right-wing libertarian Javier Milei will be the next president of Argentina. He beat the country's minister of economy in a runoff battle.

Sergio Massa conceded on Sunday before official results actually came in.

Now, Milei is a radical anti-establishment candidate. His campaign drew voters where he promised to dollarize Argentina's economy, cut government

expenses by the equivalent of 15% of GDP, eliminate public subsidies, and break up the status quo. He spoke of the new era for Argentina's economy in

his victory speech on Sunday.


(JAVIER MILEI speaking in foreign language.)

JAVIER MILEI, ARGENTINE PRESIDENT-ELECT: I want to tell Argentina that today begins the end of the decadence of our country. Today, we begin to

turn the page of our history and return to the path that we never should've left. Today, we go back to the path that made this country great.


QUEST: Stefano Pozzebon is in Bogota, joins me. Stefano, the one thing we - - I mean, there can be no doubt he won. He won fair and square, and he won a thumping. I mean, he didn't just squeak over.

So clearly, in Argentina, he does have a mandate for these policies because these were the ones he ran on.

STEFANO POZZEBON, JOURNALIST: Yes, definitely. He ran with a convincing victory, 11 percentage points ahead of his opponent, Sergio Massa. Clearly,

he channeled a demand for change that is evident in Argentina. And, well, we can expect that people want change when they see their prices growing

142% every year. This is the latest inflation rate down in Buenos Aires this month.

However, now the real challenge happens, which is a transitioning from a disruptor candidate .

QUEST: Right.

POZZEBON: . on the campaign trail to a responsible macroeconomic manager, which is what Argentina actually needs. And it's interesting.

I want to point out one of the first reaction was from Kristalina Georgieva of the International Monetary Fund, saying that they are hoping for

stability while .

QUEST: Right.

POZZEBON: . Javier Milei, what we have seen over the last few months, is nothing but stable. He is a bumpy ride, Richard.

QUEST: Okay. But what is the ability for him to do this on his own versus, say, for example, legislative action, parliament, the ability? How much

power does he have to do this in parliament, say, still with the other parties?


POZZEBON: Yes. So, we said that, and it's fair to say that his majority in Congress is not big. He will have to go down and negotiate. He will

probably have to learn the dark arts of politics and make deals. However, it's crucial to see who backed him in the second round, Richard, and one of

them is Mauricio Macri, who's the former president of Argentina, who ruled the country between 2015 and 2019. And the other one is Patricia Bullrich,

who was the central right establishment candidate, whom Milei won against in the first round of the presidential election.

Faced with the choice of another central left government with Sergio Massa, or with the jumping to the unknown, which is Javier Milei, the

establishment of the Argentinean business, the establishment of the Argentina central right, has decisively supported Milei. That is what

propelled him to victory yesterday, and that power base will be crucial over the next four years. Richard?

QUEST: I'm grateful. Thank you, Stefano joining us.

Now, Milei acts on some or all of his campaign promises. Argentina will be in for a remarkable economic experiment. It wouldn't be the first country

to dollarize its economy, but it would by a long way be the largest.

So, dollarizations happened in El Salvador, Panama and Ecuador. But look at the difference. None of them even come close. The largest, which is

Ecuador, is just a fifth the size of Argentina's. It also wouldn't be the first time Argentina's attempted dollarization.

The government pegged its currency to the dollar, which is slightly different, but it's pretty much the same concept in 1991. That scheme

folded in 2002.

Dollarizing means Argentina will have to come up with and buy into the dollar. It makes the country's central bank, at least on certain monetary

responsibilities, essentially obsolete. They are really running a dollar economy.

Miguel Alberto Kiguel is the former adviser to the Argentinean economy. He joins me now from Buenos Aires. Sir, thank you.

Do you expect -- I mean, there're really two aspects here. There's the technical aspects of dollarizing, where you've got to get the dollars into

the system, you've got to provide the liquidity, you've got to provide the notes and coins, you've got to transfer, all these sort of things.

Now, the economy said it can't be done. Professor Steve Hanke said, absolutely, it can be done. It's just a matter of nuts and bolts. Where do

you stand?

MIGUEL ALBERTO KIGUEL, FORMER ADVISER TO THE ARGENTINIAN ECONOMY MINISTER: I think that, you know, Milei is very too optimistic on the issue of

dollarization. He's been pushing for the dollarization because he thinks that that's a way, you know, to stop deficit financing, to stop fiscal

deficits, which has been one of the main problems of Argentina over the years.

Now, the big problem for Argentina is for the government basically is that it wants to dollarize and it doesn't have dollars. Obviously, dollarization

means to exchange all the pesos in circulation and give people U.S. dollars, coins, bills, whatever they need, right?

And the amount that Argentina needs to do that transaction is roughly $30 billion if they want to buy all the monetary base, which is what are the

liabilities of the central bank and that's what it needs to be dollarized. That money clear is out of reach for Argentina because Argentina first

doesn't have dollars, doesn't have reserves. The government doesn't have reserves. In fact, we have negative reserves. The central bank owes money

to the rest of the world.

So, it's basically almost impossible to get there just by what we have at the moment. And there's no credit, sorry, and there's no credit to get it.

So, Argentina has no access to lending.

QUEST: There's also a philosophical point isn't there when you dollarize. The U.S. Fed makes policy solely on the basis of what is necessary for the

United States and to the extent that Argentina -- I mean, look, this isn't unique, by the way. Of course, you know, Hong Kong has a peg, you've got

the Dutch -- sorry in Denmark, there's a peg to the euro. So -- but in all those other cases, it doesn't -- the economic management is not as

incompetent as it has been in Argentina. And they can't rely on the Fed doing what they need.

KIGUEL: Yes, that's a real problem for Argentina. You're completely right. The question is, can we ever have a reasonable macroeconomic management?


Can we ever have a reasonable central bank similar to the other countries in the region and in the world?

I think we should be able to. It's just that we have to put the right incentives and convince people that the government cannot go forever

spending and that the central bank needs to be independent.

If we adopt the monetary policy of the U.S., it will be the wrong policy for Argentina because, for instance, the U.S. raises interest rates when

inflation goes up in the U.S. and that might not be the right time for Argentina. Argentina at that time might need an expansionary monetary


So, if commodity prices drop, which means Argentina would need a devaluation, the U.S. might not do it because it obviously has its own

problems, not ours.

So, I think it would be a problem for Argentina and I think it would be the best solution to try to set the institution so that we have an independent

central bank and have rules and once and for all Argentina runs a reasonable monetary policy.

QUEST: Don't hold your breath. We'll talk more about it, sir, as this policy comes forward. I'm grateful for your time tonight.

As we continue, global temperatures briefly exceeded a crucial threshold on Friday, according to a top climate scientist. The Earth's average

temperature peaked more than two degrees Celsius above pre-industrial levels. It's the warmest November the 17th on record. It's preliminary data

and was posted by a deputy director at Europe's Copernicus Climate Change Service.

It all happens two weeks before COP28, which begins in Dubai. And one of the key topics there, carbon credits. Businesses are investing in carbon

markets to offset their own emissions. Now, British company says it can help carbon credit buyers with better data.


ELENI GIOKOS, CNN ANCHOR (voice over): The High Fen in Norfolk, England, an area rich in natural beauty. It's a haven for many types of biodiversity.

And for this team of scientists, it's also a test bed for measuring CO2 levels.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We quantify very rigorously how much carbon is in the ground here.

GIOKOS: Allister Furey co-founded and runs Sylvera, a company which examines the amount of carbon captured in vegetation, using lasers, drones

and artificial intelligence. Sylvera claims their technology can be 13 times more accurate than traditional methods.

ALLISTER FUREY, CEO AND CO-FOUNDER, SYLVERA: The old way of doing this would be to take a tape measure, but it's not going to capture any of the

detail of this tree at all. What we do is we scan the trees with a laser and we're able to do that at many thousands of trees.

GIOKOS: Once they measure the CO2 levels, Sylvera says it can calculate how much the area is worth in the carbon market, a trading platform that allows

companies to buy carbon credits in order to offset their own emissions.

IVAN DE KLEE, HEAD OF NATURAL CAPITAL, NATTERGAL: So, when you going, this is quite sandy, actually. You can see the sand in it.

GIOKOS: Nattergal, a wildlife restoration company, is protecting the biome in the High Fen. They receive the income from the credits sold in the

carbon markets.

Now, they are directly benefiting from Sylvera's detailed carbon calculator.

DE KLEE: It's all about getting that quality of data so that what we're selling is real, it's tangible, it's not going to contribute to green moss

(ph), it's real sequestration or biodiversity uplift or whatever the ecosystem service is.

GIOKOS: Sylvera's ambition is to keep scanning for CO2 in different areas across the globe. This year, they will get to showcase their tech at the

world's largest climate event. COP28 will take place in the United Arab Emirates and one of the major talking points will be finance and how to

strengthen the carbon market. It's how companies like Sylvera could make a difference.

FUREY: Someone needs to go do the hard yards in the fields, writing the software code, monitoring every patch of earth on the planet and every

project that exists to give the investors that confidence to buy us out of the situation we find ourselves in.

GIOKOS: The focus on finance can pave the way to less carbon emissions and more commitments to our planet.

Eleni Giokos, CNN, Abu Dhabi.



QUEST: That's (INAUDIBLE) business for the moment. I'll be back at the top of the hour. Together you and I will have a dash for the closing bell and

the market is up.

Coming up next, Living Golf.



UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Welcome to Living Golf, where this month we're in South Korea.

I'm going on a journey through one of the most unique and interesting golf cultures in the world, one where technology is embraced.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The main feature of the software is that it enables users to play golf as if they were playing golf on a real golf course.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: With the LPGA Tour in town, we'll hear from last year's champion.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was definitely a memorable one and an emotional one as well, I think.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Plus, we'll speak with two former world number one players and major champions who are superstars in their homeland.

Welcome to Seoul. I'm here in Korea's capital to begin my journey through one of the most incredible golfing nations in the world.


Korea has dominated the women's game for the past 25 years ever since Se-ri Pak claimed the country's first major title at the 1998 LPGA Championship.

In that time, the depth of talent coming from South Korea has been staggering, with 34 major wins by 17 different players.

So, what is the secret to the success?

One common denominator amongst almost all of the Korean major winners is that they have come through perhaps the best and most competitive

development tour in the world, where steel sharpens steel.

The Korean LPGA or KLPGA Tour is a professional circuit complete with feeder tours, huge fan interest and commercial partners are plenty and it

is the most competitive national tour in women's golf outside of the U.S.

Nam Jin Kim is the secretary general of the tour and he traces golf's boom back to one player in particular.

NAM JIN KIM, SECRETARY GENERAL, KLPGA TOUR: Golf in Korea has achieved levels of popularity similar to those of the most popular sport in the

country, baseball. This all began in 1998 when Se-ri Pak won the US Women's Open, which gave Korean fans a sense of hope and inspiration.

I believe that this series of successes was the catalyst that helped Koreans grow interested in the sport, effectively conveying its charm and

consequently helping the KLPGA develop over the years.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The KLPGA tour has been instrumental in developing young Korean talent. Tell us about the pathway to getting to the KLPGA tour

and then the elite level after that.

JIN: The promotion-based training system we've implemented is structured to allow the players to face continuous competition directly through the

tournaments, and this trains them to cope with it from the get-go.

But I must also add the passion shown by the players, the dedication of their parents, the support of our sponsors, and last but not least, the

fact that our fellow countrymen have turned golf into a matter of national importance. I believe that all these elements helped to make our tour stand

out in terms of quality and development.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: As Mr. Kim shows me around the KLPGA tour offices, it's impossible not to be struck by the incredible depth of talent that has

been produced by Korea in recent years.

Perhaps the biggest star to graduate from the Korean LPGA tour over the past decade is two-time major winner and Seoul native Jin-young Ko.

JIN YOUNG KO, TWO-TIME MAJOR WINNER: Hi. My name is Jin Young Ko. I'm two- time major winner and two-time LPGA player of the year.

I grew up in Seoul, but in Seoul they don't have golf course, so I just practiced at the range. My family, they don't have any golfers, so I'm


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Ko is from the generation of Korean players influenced by Se-Ri Pak's major win in 1998. The group has become collectively known

as the Se-Ri Kids, after the trailblazers' success inspired enough young girls to take up the game that the most competitive junior circuit in the

world was born.

KO: When I was junior, I played with great golfers in elementary school and middle school. They were practiced hard every time, so I just want to

follow them.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Now that Ko is at the top of the women's game, on reflection, she believes that the parenting culture plays a big role in the

success of young Korean players.

KO: All the parents is tough and very strict. So, that's why we have a lot of good professional golfers in Korea. Until now, the junior golfers, they

really want to be like us on the LPGA Tour, and they practiced a lot like us.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Having turned pro in 2013 and dominated in Korea, Ko joined the LPGA Tour in 2018 and quickly made her mark by winning early in

her rookie season. But it was in 2019 when she really caught the world's attention, winning two majors, the Evian Championship and the ANA

Inspiration, climbing to the top of the world's rankings in the process.


Despite her extraordinary success, Ko has managed to stay grounded and at the top of the game thanks to her two biggest fans.

KO: My grandma and my grandfather likes me to play golf, and they always watching me on T.V. and they're proud of me.




UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Korea is home to some of the world's tech giants, including the likes of Samsung and Hyundai, and regularly ranks as one of

the most technologically advanced countries in the world. It should come as no surprise then that technology has played a key role in overcoming one of

the biggest barriers to golf participation.

Seoul is one of the world's great cities. But with a population of almost 10 million, space comes at a premium.

With only one golf course in the metropolitan Seoul area that is only accessible to military personnel, this city is perhaps the number one

destination in the world for screen golf.

According to reports, in 2019, Korea became the first country where more rounds of golf were played annually indoors than outdoors, and the pandemic

has only increased the popularity of the screen golf craze.

MINKYU KIM, GLOBAL HEAD OF BUSINESS, GOLF ZON: Okay. This is the modes we have. You can set up the players. You can add players during the game.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Minkyu Kim is the head of global business at GOLF ZON, the market leader with over 6,000 screen golf locations in South Korea


KIM: According to the research from last year, there are 7.5 million golfers in South Korea. 6 million of those people use screen golf. The

figures have drastically increased since the pre-COVID era.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Here we go, first tee, St. Andrews. Oh, I've got an applause, got an applause already.

Good start.

KIM: GOLF ZON simulators comprise two aspects, the first of which is the hardware that senses the golf ball and club, then there is the software

that operates the golf game using the data extracted from the sensors.

The main feature of the software is that it enables users to play golf as if they were playing golf on a real golf course.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Bang on the bunker. What a shame.

So, I think this is probably one of the more advanced simulators that I've experienced, especially with the different terrain. These actually do move

up and down. We've got fairway, we've got rough, we've got sand.

I've just hit out the sand and it is very realistic. And I think this is one of the indoor experiences that you'll get that is probably as close to

the real thing as you're going to get indoors. So, yes, really, really enjoying it, and the fact that I get to play St. Andrews for the first time

is obviously an absolute bonus.


KIM: It's all about accessibility and time, because Seoul and Tokyo are such crowded cities. Screen golf enables people to avoid the time-consuming

process of traveling away from these cities, and as there are screen golf sites close to people's homes and offices, they have instant access to the


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Okay. Because I'm in the rough, I've got to go in the rough bit here. You can totally see why this is so popular, not just in

South Korea, but all over the world. Like you can play a couple of holes on your lunch break, go back to work, play a couple of holes in an hour after

work. It's so easy, so much fun.

KIM: Screen golf is technically the same as the golf played on golf courses. It's a technology for beginners, advanced level players and tour

professionals, so everyone can have fun competing. Screen golf is the perfect technology for golf.


QUEST: Hello, I'm Richard Quest. Together, let's have a dash to the closing bell. We're just two minutes away, literally.

Now, U.S. markets are set to extend their rally into the holiday shortened week, a bit of a tumble towards the last second or two, but otherwise still

up 190 points. The Dow is just off its session highs overall, 188 points. It's been in the green all day.

Silicon Valley is keeping a close eye on the drama at OpenAI. Roger McNamee told me whatever happens at the company, OpenAI still has issues with its



MCNAMEE: They're still in the same place they were in on Thursday, which is they have a product that is unbelievably expensive to create and to

operate, where there are very few use cases that are valuable enough to justify the cost.

And as a consequence, they've had to create the illusion that this product is inevitable and that Microsoft was endorsing it and embedding it in all

their products. At the same time, if you're a corporation, if you do a really detailed analysis product, you discover very quickly, it does not do

what they tell you it's going to do.


QUEST: Now look at the Dow components. You have Boeing at the top, nearly up over 5 percent, an upgrade from Deutsche Bank, and it seems there are

problems on 737 Max, 777, et cetera, may all be abating, Boeing at the top.

Microsoft is up more than 2 percent. It hired Sam Altman from OpenAI. And P&G don't often see that. Procter& Gamble is at the bottom along with Nike.

That's the way the markets are looking, and that is your dash to the bell.


I'm Richard Quest. Whatever you're up to in the hours ahead, I hope it's profitable.

Now, the closing bell is ringing on Wall Street. There you are. The market is up over 200 points.

And The Lead with Jake Tapper, that's now.