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Quest Means Business
Israel Awaits Return Of Sixth Group Of Hostages; Hamas: Two Female Russian Hostages Released; Eight-Year-Old Boy Killed During Israeli Raid In Jenin; Israel: 126 Male Hostages, 3 Female Hostages Still Held; Sources: Red Cross Has Not Been Allowed To Visit Hostages; Released Caregiver Recovering After Hostage Ordeal; Blinken Reiterates NATO Support For Ukraine; Electronic Warfare Heats Up In Ukraine; Russia Leans Into GPS Jamming As War Tactic; Virgin Atlantic Completes Transatlantic Flight On 100% SAF; Negotiations In Hope Of Extending Truce; Parthenon Controversy; Quest`s World Of Wonder: London; Video Appears To Show Release Of Russian Hostages. Aired 3-4p ET
Aired November 29, 2023 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANNOUNCER: This is CNN Breaking News.
PAULA NEWTON, CNN ANCHOR: And good evening. I`m Paula Newton in New York. And we continue with our breaking news out of Israel tonight.
We`re waiting for confirmation as to whether a sixth group of hostages has been freed by Hamas. The Red Cross convoy was recently spotted at the Rafah
Crossing. And sources say Hamas has given Israel the names of the hostages set to be released. Now, the IDF says two Russian hostages have now entered
You see the video there. Hamas said the Kremlin helped negotiate the release of Yelena Trupanov and Irena Tati. Now, right across Israel, of
course, those kinds of reunions were bittersweet news amid uncertainty about the youngest hostage held in Gaza.
Hamas claims that ten-month-old Kfir Bibas was killed in an Israeli airstrike. Hamas says his mother and four-year-old brother were also
killed. The Bibas family released a statement.
And I`m quoting now, "Our family has learned of Hamas` latest claims. We are waiting for the information to be confirmed and hopefully refuted from
military officials. We thank the people of Israel for their warm support, but kindly request privacy during this difficult time." And they go on to
thank everyone for their thoughts.
Ben Wedeman has been following all of this in Jerusalem for us. Ben, and again, we do have fast breaking developments and all punctuated by so much
suffering and loss as witnessed there by that family. What more are we learning about the hostages to be released here, the timing, and if both
sides held to their bargains?
BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, the timing seems to be lagging a bit. We still haven`t seen the 10 Israeli captives held by
Hamas in Gaza that are the core of this deal between -- mediated by Qatar between Hamas and Israel.
What we have seen, as you said, is -- are these two women, elderly woman and her adult daughter, Russian-Israeli dual citizens who have been
released. Hamas put out a video, which showed a fairly raucous sendoff by a crowd as Hamas fighters took these two women from their vehicle and they
were escorted to a Red Cross vehicle. That was in Khan Younis, according to eyewitnesses. And those two individuals are now in Israeli custody.
This was a deal worked out by President Vladimir Putin of Russia, completely independent of that other deal. So the 10 that are expected to
be handed over, including, according to sources, one American, have not arrived in Israel yet. And as a result, the 30 Palestinian detainees and
prisoners are still waiting to be freed themselves to have some happy moments with their loved ones and relatives -- Paula.
NEWTON: Ben, we will leave it there for now, but get back to you in a moment.
Meanwhile, CNN has obtained this clip from social media that appears to show Hamas handing over the Russian-Israeli hostages. Again, this is video
of Hamas. It is 50-year-old Yelena Trupanov and 73-year-old Irena Tati were kidnapped from their kibbutz on October 7th. They were freed in a separate
deal. Remember, it is separate. And that was apparently negotiated between the Kremlin and Hamas.
Israel says they are with IDF special forces on Israeli soil at this hour. And our Jeremy Diamond is in Israel for us.
Jeremy, again, quite an emotional day right across Israel. What more are we learning not just about the two that were released there, those dual
Russian-Israeli citizens, but critically also the 10, apparently, yet to be released?
JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, we are still waiting on news of those 10 Israeli citizens, women and children, who are set to be released
today after more than 50 days in Hamas captivity. So far, no word on exactly when that handoff to the Red Cross will actually happen.
But what we just witnessed in the last hour was a scene of jubilation and excitement as an initial bus with those two Russian-Israeli women came
right through this roundabout behind me and were greeted by crowd who was chanting. There was music blaring. They were cheering. And we saw at least
one of those Russian-Israeli women on the side of the bus, looking out of the window, smiling and waving at the crowd here that was welcoming both
her and this other woman.
As you said, Yelena Trupanov, 50 years old, and Irena Tati, 73 years old. They are now the second and third Russian-Israeli citizens to be released
not as part of this broad agreement between Israel and Hamas that has now seen the release of over 60 Israelis, but rather as part of a separate
agreement, it appears, between Hamas and the Russian government, of course, facilitated, it appears, in some capacity by the Israeli government, which
received them on the Israeli side of the border between Gaza and Israel.
We are still waiting to see exactly when that handoff for the official group of 10 Israelis will happen later today. And also, of course, we`re
waiting to see whether or not that fragile truce between Israel and Hamas, that has allowed for the release of so many hostages over these last six
days, will indeed be extended.
NEWTON: Yes, and it`s not just to, you know, extend that truce so that hostages can be released. Obviously, it`s critical for getting aid into
Gaza as well. And also, Jeremy, I am hearing from families, they want proof of life from the hostages that remain in Gaza. We had that incredibly
bittersweet note from the family, the Bibas family, waiting on tenterhooks really to know the fate of their family. What more are we learning?
And, Jeremy, as you pointed out before, I mean, this family has really captured the hearts of Israel and all -- apparently, the entire country now
wanting to know what has happened to those two young boys and their family.
DIAMOND: Yes, they really have. That young boy, Kfir Bibas, just 10 months old, nine months when he was taken into captivity by Hamas on October the
7th, has really become a symbol in so many ways for Israel. And so many Israelis really feel connected to him and to his family.
Sadly, today, Hamas claims that Shiri Bibas, the mother, along with her two children, Kfir, 10 months old, and Ariel who is four years old, claiming
that they were killed in an Israeli airstrike in Gaza. They did not offer any evidence to back up that claim.
The Israeli military, for its part, says that it is still assessing that claim and trying to verify the veracity of it. They were -- they did inform
the family -- the relatives of the Bibas family who are held captive in Gaza of Hamas` claim.
In a statement from the family, they say that they have learned of those claims and that they are, quote, "waiting for the information to be
confirmed and hopefully refuted by Israeli military officials." What we also don`t know is the status and the fate of the father of that family,
Yarden Bibas, who is also believed to have been taken captive on October 7th.
There is no information either from Hamas or from Israeli officials about his whereabouts or his condition, but very sad news if, indeed, it is to be
confirmed. But, of course, we do need to be mindful that Hamas has been known to use kind of psychological tactics in the past with regards to
claims like this. We know that another militant group, Palestinian Islamic Jihad claims that one of those Israeli women captives had actually been
killed, but she was actually released by Hamas earlier this week. So again, important to take these claims with a grain of salt but, of course, very
sad if indeed true.
NEWTON: Yes, again, and I know Jeremy you will come back to us with any formation you have. I have to know, just since you`re speaking there, are
young Israeli children behind you jumping in hope and jubilation, and so much of the country now also waiting to learn the fate of those two young
boys and their family?
Jeremy Diamond for us, in Israel. Appreciate it.
We do want to get back to Ben Wedeman who is in Jerusalem for us. And, Ben, as you know all too well, the parallel conflict here to the Israel-Hamas
conflict is the escalation of violence that we`ve seen in the West Bank and those critical events in those last few days in Jenin. This place has
always long been a flash point.
And yet, CNN has new reporting now on the fate of two children there and some very disturbing details. What more do you know?
WEDEMAN: Oh, yes. Well, Paula, as the guns went silent in Gaza last Friday, there`s been no pause in sort of the daily fighting, the daily military
operations by the Israelis in the occupied West Bank. Last night, sometime around 10:00 PM, Israeli forces went into the Jenin refugee camp, not for
the first time.
WEDEMAN (voice over): Israeli forces with bulldozers and jeeps entered the camp under the cover of darkness. This has become a routine. And this is
the usual aftermath -- wreckage and rubble, asphalt roads plowed down to the dirt. Once the damage is repaired, there`s another raid, and it`s the
same thing all over again.
(on camera): For almost two years, a low-intensity war has been raging in the occupied West Bank. Residents here in Jenin`s refugee camp say that
there have been more than 30 Israeli military incursions since August of this year.
(voice over): The camp is home to militants who Israel has accused of involvement in attacks on Israelis. But here, those who Israel calls
terrorists are seen as fighters against a decades` long military occupation.
Wadiya Kuskas (ph) is not a fighter; he works for the local government.
(on camera): Yes, it`s the kids` room.
(voice over): But last week, Israeli soldiers took over his home during yet another raid. As he shows me around, the remains of what was a family`s
life crunched under our shoes.
(UNIDENTIFIED MALE speaking in foreign language.)
WEDEMAN (voice over): Brutal is how what Wadiya (ph) sums up the soldiers` behavior. Scars of battles past pockmarked the camps walls. Debris on
almost every corner.
(UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE speaking in foreign language.)
WEDEMAN (voice over): Um Sami shows me spent cartridges on the floor of her house, saying Israeli troops used this room to fire down into the street.
(UM SAMI speaking in foreign language.)
WEDEMAN (voice over): "They took my husband, bound his hands and pushed him outside in the cold," she says. "They kept him there from six in the
evening until five in the morning." Eventually, the soldiers let him go, but took away her recently married son after ransacking his bedroom,
searching for weapons.
Eighteen-year-old Mahmoud Awalhegi (ph) was shot last Thursday evening, shot through his bedroom window. His mother, Khitam, holding a bloodstained
towel, recounts how Israeli soldiers wouldn`t law medics to take him to hospital.
(KHITAM speaking in foreign language.)
WEDEMAN (voice over): "I was sure we were going to the hospital," she says. We went downstairs. A second officer was there and made the medics put the
stretcher down. Mahmoud (ph) bled to death in front of his home.
Tuesday night Israeli forces raided the camp again, sparking gun battles with militants. And in the process, Israeli troops killed at least four
people, including this eight-year-old boy. And then they left.
WEDEMAN: And another boy, at the age of 14, was also shot by Israeli troops, both of their deaths caught on closed circuit TV in the refugee
camp in Jenin. And in addition to that, two others died because Israeli forces blocked access to all of the hospitals in Jenin. This is something
that we`ve seen many times before. It seems to be one of their tactics.
Keep in mind, of course, that around 250 Palestinians have been killed in the West Bank since the 7th of October, most of them killed by Israeli
soldiers, some of them killed by settlers -- Paula.
NEWTON: That`s such disturbing details, especially those details with the children and the lack of medical aid.
Ben Wedeman, we appreciate your reporting. Thank you so much.
Now, Israeli authorities say they believe 161 hostages are still being held in Gaza. We`ll have more on those who remain in captivity at this hour.
NEWTON: And we are following the latest developments as more Israeli hostages are released. The last hour, we saw two freed female hostages
returned to Israeli soil. And they arrived back there after being released by Hamas. There`s a separate handover yet that is set to happen.
We are awaiting word on when a larger group of hostages is expected to be set free. This comes as the truce between Hamas and Israel is set to expire
Qatari officials say they`re hopeful that another extension can be reached before the end of the day. Now meantime, Israel believes 161 hostages are
still being held in Gaza. It says 126 of them are male, 33 are female, and four children remain in Hamas` hands.
The families of those who have now been released are talking about the conditions they endured. They say Hamas threatened children with weapons if
they made any noise. Hostages were apparently beaten, given little food, and denied much-needed medical care.
Sources tells CNN that the Red Cross has been unable to visit any of the hostages. The deal between Israel and Hamas stipulated Red Cross visits by
the fourth day of the truce. Now, the White House says its National Security Advisor Jake Sullivan spoke today with the head of the Red Cross
and told her it was, in his words, "imperative to get access to the people still in captivity."
Romi Gonen was kidnapped on October 7th and is thought to be among them. Wolf Blitzer spoke just a short time ago to her sister. Listen.
YARDEN GONEN, SISTER OF ISRAELI HOSTAGE: Until she`s here, I don`t feel safe, I don`t feel truly whole. And I can`t wait to see her and everyone
else sooner than later.
She`s injured. She`s not the only one that`s injured. We know that they don`t give good enough treatment to the ones that over there. We saw how
Elma Raham (ph) came back from captivity, and it`s a very, very hard neglect. And I`m afraid, I`m really do afraid for my little sister.
NEWTON: So one of the foreign nationals released last week by Hamas is among of the first former hostages to speak publicly about his ordeal. Oren
Liebermann brings us his story.
OREN LIEBERMANN, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Jimmy Pacheco was never supposed to be a part of this conflict, but he walked out of Shamir
hospital swept up in a war that wasn`t his.
JIMMY PACHECO, RELEASED HOSTAGE (through translator): I really didn`t think that they will keep me alive, knowing that they already killed my employer.
LIEBERMANN (voice over): Pacheco is from the Philippines, one of tens of thousands of foreign workers who often come as caretakers of farmhands. In
Kibbutz Nir Oz, near the Gaza border, he cared for the elderly, Amitai Ben Zvi. The kibbutz was destroyed on October 7th, and Ben Zvi was murdered.
Mati is his brother.
MATI BENZ VI, BROTHER OF AMITAI BEN ZVI: When the terrorists went to the house, my brother was thinking, oh, you know, to save Jimmy because he knew
that he cannot run. Jimmy said, "No, I`ll stay with you, because that`s what I`m doing. You know, that I`m supposed to do."
LIEBERMANN (voice over): Mati Ben Zvi says Jimmy Pacheco had become a part of the family.
BENZ VI: The whole world known about Jimmy. You know, and that`s due to my brother`s sons because he was so dear to my brother, you know?
LIEBERMANN (voice over): The Philippine embassy in Israel released this video of Pacheco. It is one of the first times we`ve heard directly from a
(JIMMY PACHECO speaking in foreign language.)
PACHECO (through translator): Regarding losing weight, it is normal that I would be like this because the food they gave was not enough.
LIEBERMANN (voice over): Pacheco was about to finish his five-year contract in Israel when he was taken hostage.
LIEBERMANN (on camera): For the Filipino community in Israel, 30,000 strong, the attack of October 7th was deeply personal. Four of their own
were killed in the attack.
LIEBERMANN (voice over): In a surprise move, Hamas has released 17 Thai citizens during the first days of the truce, as well as Jimmy Pacheco.
The Philippines ambassador to Israel says four Filipinos were murdered on October 7th, and two taken hostage.
PEDRO LAYLO JR., PHILIPPINES AMBASSADOR TO ISRAEL: Most of the Filipino workers chose to stay, and they believe that, you know, they`ve been here
for years already, that Israel will be able to weather the storm.
LIEBERMANN (voice over): The sons of the man for whom Pacheco cared met him at the hospital upon his release, a sign of the bond they share. Soon after
Jimmy Pacheco was released, he spoke with his wife who celebrated the chance to see him again.
PACHECO (through translator): When I was in Gaza City, I had already lost my faith that I would stay alive and didn`t think I would be able to come
back to my family. I gather strength from our Lord and for my kids. In my mind, I knew I could surpass this.
LIEBERMANN (voice over): Jimmy credits his survival to his faith. He`ll head home in a few weeks to his own family in the Philippines, a reunion
that will come just in time for Christmas.
Oren Liebermann, CNN, in Tel Aviv.
NEWTON: We want to bring you up-to-date now in diplomatic developments. The US Secretary of State is heading to the Middle East for meetings in Israel,
the West Bank, and the UAE. Antony Blinken was in Brussels today to discuss the war in Ukraine with NATO allies. And he doubled down on NATO`s
unwavering support for Kyiv and discussed what`s at stake. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANTONY BLINKEN, US SECRETARY OF STATE: I think every ally recognizes that this is a matter not only of doing the right thing, it`s a matter of self-
interest, including for the United States. There is a clear self-interest among allies to stand for the basic principles at the heart of the UN
charter that are being violated egregiously by Russia.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NEWTON: Now, and speaking about that conflict, of course, the war in Ukraine has revealed the strengths and vulnerabilities of high-tech
weapons. Clare Sebastian looks at the growing role of electronic warfare.
CLARE SEBASTIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): It looks like little more than a cluster of TV aerials, yet this Ukrainian drone has just destroyed a
critical piece of Russia`s electronic arsenal. The commander who operated the drone says he wanted his video to go viral.
(PAVLO PETRYCHENKO speaking in foreign language.)
PAVLO PETRYCHENKO, UKRAINIAN DRONE COMMANDER (through translator): On this video, other reconnaissance units will be able to see how such antenna
looks like in detail, and in the future, identify them on the battlefield.
SEBASTIAN (voice over): Pavlo Petrychenko is stationed on the most active part of Ukraine`s eastern front. His unit, helping defend that town of
Avdiivka from a Russian onslaught.
(on camera): Why is it so important to destroy these electronic warfare systems, in particular?
(PAVLO PETRYCHENKO speaking in foreign language.)
PETRYCHENKO (through translator): I am grateful to our partners, to NATO, to the whole civilized world, who give us these weapons. All these weapons
are highly accurate. They are guided by satellite systems. Russia tries to counter these weapons with electronic warfare systems.
SEBASTIAN (voice over): For Russia, electronic warfare, an invisible battleground where electromagnetic waves are used to jam or even alter
enemy GPS signals, as well as disrupting radio waves, radar, and cell signals, has provided an unexpected advantage over Ukraine`s more
(UNIDENTIFIED MALE speaking in foreign language.)
SEBASTIAN (voice over): US provided guided missiles, even some essential HIMARS rocket launchers have been compromised, and drones, the most
frequent victims. This, published by a pro-Kremlin news outlet, reportedly shows the moment Russian jammers struck.
KARI BINGEN, DIRECTOR OF THE AEROSPACE SECURITY PROJECT, CSIS: So GPS jamming is basically brute force power. So think of it, if your stereo is
on at home and you`ve got low music playing, and your neighbor is blasting their music next door, and you can hear it and it overpowers your stereo .
SEBASTIAN (voice over): Ukraine`s minister of digital transformation, who has spearheaded a 100-fold increase in drone production this year, says
electronic warfare is now a top priority.
(MYKHALIO FEDOROV speaking in foreign language.)
MYKHALIO FEDOROV, UKRAINIAN MINISTER OF DIGITAL TRANSFORMATION (through translator): The new vision for the development of electronic warfare
includes protecting every piece of equipment, every trench, every person, comprehensive protection of the entire battlefield and the rear, using
SEBASTIAN (voice over): Ukraine is playing catch-up here. The head of the country`s armed forces admitting in a recent essay Russia has, quote,
"significant electronic warfare superiority."
BINGEN: I think what`s been interesting is to see these jamming systems being collocated with Russian forces. I think it`s really giving insight
into how Russia is integrating them into their military plans and their force movements.
SEBASTIAN (voice over): And Russia is not trying to hide this. The official defense ministry TV channel showing off jamming equipment on tanks aimed to
prevent enemy drones getting too close. But even on state media, an armored train said to be kitted out with electronic warfare defenses.
(on camera): Do you think that electronic warfare is one of the things that could potentially turn the tide in this conflict?
(MYKHALIO FEDOROV speaking in foreign language.)
FEDOROV (through translator): One tool is not enough to achieve a breakthrough. There needs to be a combination of certain actions. We are
never going to have as much manpower as Russia, but technology can change that. We need to continue scaling it up.
SEBASTIAN (voice over): Clare Sebastian, CNN, London.
NEWTON: Here, in New York, now a Virgin Atlantic plane fully powered by a sustainable aviation fuel arrive safely from London. It`s the first
transatlantic flight by a commercial airliner using 100% SAF.
Virgin`s founder, Richard Branson, was aboard the Dreamliner and spoke about the milestone on CNN this morning.
RICHARD BRANSON, FOUNDER, VIRGIN GROUP: Now we know it can be -- it can fly. We could fly -- we could`ve flown to LA, we could`ve flown to Tokyo,
we could`ve flown anywhere in the world.
Now, we just got to get the fuel companies, and we got to get entrepreneurs to start making enormous quantities so that, you know, planes can fly on
it. You know, we also have a cruise company. We would like our cruise company to be able to use it. And this will be an important part in sort of
tipping the world into a clean energy world.
ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR: It is more expensive right now, this sustainable fuel. That being said, the way I understand it, there isn`t really a
modification though that needs to be made of the engine. So you can use it in existing planes?
BRANSON: Yes, so that`s what is so exciting is we literally -- we could fly, you know, if, for instance, America gets ahead of Britain in, you
know, making sustainable aviation fuel. We could, on one direction, fill it up with sustainable aviation fuel, while Britain is catching up and, you
know, making enough sustainable aviation fuel to fly both ways. So it`s highly adaptable and easy to use.
NEWTON: Okay. When we return back to our breaking news, just hours left in the truce between Israel Hamas, diplomats from around the world are working
to extend it.
NEWTON: At this hour, negotiators are working to extend the truce between Israel and Hamas that is currently set to expire Thursday morning. Israel
believes some 159 hostages are still being held in Gaza.
A Qatari official says the country is very optimistic about an extension. He says negotiations are moving toward the possible release, in fact, also,
of civilian men. Alex Marquardt is live for us in Washington with more on this.
That would be hugely significant.
What more are you learning from secretary of state Blinken?
He has certainly been doing his fair share of shuttle diplomacy.
What sticking points remain for this truce to be extended?
ALEX MARQUARDT, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: You are absolutely right. We have heard from top officials across the board in the
Biden administration -- secretary of state Antony Blinken, CIA director Bill Burns, the president himself.
We know that the U.S. wants to extend this temporary pause from six days, as it stands right now, even farther. The onus, Paula, really is on Hamas
right now. If Hamas, in the coming hours delivers another list of 10 hostages who they are -- hostages` names, I should say.
That they are willing to release tomorrow then the pause will be extended into a seventh day. The same thing if they presented a list tomorrow into
an eighth day.
There is a belief that Hamas has at least 20 more women and children they can release, which would extend this temporary pause in the fighting for at
least two more days to bring to a total of eight days. After that, that is where things start to get a little bit more complicated.
Does Hamas have more women and children they can release?
Do they start to release some of those civilian men you talked about?
The CIA director, when he was in Doha yesterday, wanted to start the discussion about those groups of hostages beyond the women and children.
Israel has said, let`s just handle the women and children first and then deal with the others later.
There is an expectation that Hamas might ask for more in exchange for those men as well as the Israeli soldiers they have in their custody -- Paula.
NEWTON: Yes but, obviously, as you have been reporting, we still have women and in fact children who still need to be released from Gaza.
Alex, I know you have been across this as well.
When U.S. officials speak to the Israeli military about their operation going forward, if this truce ends as it is likely to expire at some point,
what more are you learning about what U.S. officials are being told?
Is Israel ready to do what, in its words, would be more surgical strikes in Gaza?
MARQUARDT: Israel is saying very publicly that they have every intention of ramping up their military operations once again as soon as this flow of
hostages ends. We would expect the hostage negotiations would continue even if those military operations were to start back up again.
But there is, Paula, real concern and fear in fact here in Washington, D.C., about what we could see when Israel does in fact do that. When you
look at the extraordinary level of devastation in Gaza, particularly in northern Gaza, where Israel has been carrying out strikes both from the air
and also from land and sea.
And you look at the extraordinary civilian death toll, what we understand from the Biden administration is they say they have been communicating very
clearly to the Israelis that they do not want to see that level of destruction.
They do not want to see that level of aggression because of the impact on the civilian population, should they start their operations back up again,
which we believe would be mainly focused on southern Gaza.
Now Paula, remember, the Israelis told northern Gazans to move to the south. Now you have almost 2 million displaced Gazans mainly in the south.
So where do those people go?
This is why the U.S. is telling Israel, if you have to start up your military operation again, please be much more cautious, much more surgical
about going after Hamas. Do everything you can not to harm the civilian population.
NEWTON: A lot to parse there for Secretary Blinken as he arrives. Again, there, in Israel. Alex Marquardt for us, appreciate your report.
Mark Hertling is a CNN military analyst. He joins us now on some of the discussions, to talk over some of the discussions now underway.
General, good to see you, as usual, as we were just speaking with Alex.
NEWTON: We know the United States is already working on that post truce plan. You have been telling us for weeks how difficult an operation it
would be to actually eradicate Hamas.
Is there any way for the IDF to operate, in our words, surgically?
How can that get done, do you believe, in Gaza?
LT. GEN. MARK HERTLING, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Likely not, Paula. Here is what I`m going to compare this to.
What you are talking about over the last seven days or so, since this pause has been in effect, the military operations of both the Israeli Defense
Forces and Hamas has not stopped.
We have focused our attention on the hostage release and the humanitarian aid and what the different players want from this. But I guarantee you,
from a military perspective, the IDF is planning their next set of operations.
Where will those operations go?
Alex gave a little bit of an indicator when he talked about the south. I`m not sure that is exactly correct. There are four major cities in the Gaza
Strip -- Gaza City itself, Deir al-Balah, Khan Younis and Rafah.
Under each one of those cities, you have those extensive tunnel complexes. Some are bigger than others.
So while the IDF has been gathering intelligence, some of it from the movement of Hamas, some of it from actually questioning the hostages that
have come back, they have probably gotten a better indication of what is going on underground in that subterranean area.
Hamas, on the other hand, is doing the same thing. They are maneuvering as well. But all of their maneuvers, for the most, part is underground.
Where are they going?
Well, they are going to the places that could cause some of the uproar again if they were struck by Israeli forces. We are talking about Deir al-
Balah, Khan Younis, specifically, where more tunnel complexes are.
And you can bet that Hamas, as part of their operations -- and this has been from the very first day the war -- has been planning their defensive
based on what they anticipate getting from international reaction to the IDF campaign.
Then you have the U.S. We want the hostages released. We want to try to get aid in. We want to stop a humanitarian disaster. Those three areas are all
competing. And it is going to be a very difficult operation if Israel starts again as soon as the pause is over.
NEWTON: It is still an open issue as to whether or not those goals are, in any way, shape or form, compatible.
When we talk about urban combat and avoiding civilian casualties, we have your experience in Mosul in Iraq, what would you say to the IDF at this
Especially since the IDF, I`m sure you`ve heard this, claims civilian casualties in Gaza have not been as high as those under U.S. operations in
HERTLING: Yes, I would say, first of all, they are right in that case.
Secondly, a lot of U.S. -- the Iraqi casualties in Iraq were caused by -- throughout the campaign, not just in a small area or in one specific
operation. But this one has certainly -- as I have said once before, the first casualty of war is truth.
We do not really know how many casualties have occurred in Gaza. There is reporting from the Hamas ministry, the Palestinian ministry of health,,
which is run by Hamas, and they are giving numbers again to stoke the outrage on the world stage.
We do not know if those numbers are correct or not. Truthfully, in some of these operations, the difference between Mosul or Fallujah or Sadr City,
that was all above ground. There was not this subterranean fight that Hamas has made their specialty.
And you cannot get to the location of the location of the Hamas forces without going through the buildings and the residences on top of those
subterranean tunnels and shafts.
So that is what makes this so difficult and so very different and you cannot compare it at all to any of the operations in Iraq because this is
much harder. There were not these kind of underground fights in a different level of operation as Israel is facing.
And it is hard to not commit atrocities or what seem to be atrocities, when you`re firing toward those tunnels, which are underneath the population
NEWTON: That is definitely the issue, right?
When you see the level of devastation in Gaza. Lt. Gen. Mark Hertling, we`ll leave it there for now. Thank you so much.
Now a Greek official tells CNN his country is committed to its friendship with the U.K. It comes after the British prime minister abruptly canceled a
meeting with the Greek prime minister Tuesday.
Rishi Sunak accused the Greek prime minister of using his visit to push his government`s claims for Britain to give back a set of sculptures taken from
the Parthenon in then 200 years ago. Isa Soares asked the Greek minister of labor and social security about the significance of those sculptures.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ADONIS GEORGIADIS, GREEK MINISTER OF LABOR AND SOCIAL SECURITY: The Parthenon is a unique monument of humanity.
GEORGIADIS: And we have the responsibility to find a solution in this issue. That is what we say. We do not believe that this should be a
conflict between Greece and the United Kingdom. This should unify Greece and the United Kingdom. The day that the Parthenon will be united, it will
be a celebration for every human being on the planet.
ISA SOARES, CNN ANCHOR AND CORRESPONDENT: Right. So there should be a way out. So this proposed deal which is then was being discussed -- and I know
you can`t give me the details of this deal that was being discussed by the Greek government and George Osborne, the chair of the British Museum.
Is Greece at least think -- is this a possibility here of some sort of swap?
Some sort of exchange?
GEORGIADIS: Greece --
SOARES: -- Greece ruling it out?
GEORGIADIS: Greece wants to find a solution that would not destroy the British Museum and would not put the British Museum in a very difficult
position. We understand their point of view and we do not want to see this us a threat to the British Museum.
We understand that we have to find a common solution. And this is the reason we pose this issue. But everyone should understand also what misum
japaki (ph) said. We have a monument of humanity, the Parthenon. And it is being divided.
This a disgrace for our civilization.
The Parthenon is a symbol of the classical civilization. All the Western values of democracy, of human rights, of philosophy, of poetry were born in
ancient Athens at the time the Parthenon was built.
And all of us have the responsibility to work, to unify this unique monument. This is what we say to our British friends. We do not want to
quarrel with anybody. But we want to find a solution to unify the Parthenon. It is a disgrace --
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NEWTON: Still looking for common ground with the U.K.
And that is QUEST MEANS BUSINESS for now. We will be back at the top of the hour with more news. Up next, "QUEST`S WORLD OF WONDER."
RICHARD QUEST, CNN HOST (voice-over): I can`t see Christopher Robin or Alice. But then there are thousands of people outside the official London
home of King Charles and Queen Camilla.
QUEST: Ah, I love it, I love it. It`s got the history, it`s got the tourists. And look at all the people who come out.
QUEST (voice-over): They do the full ceremony four days a week. It is well worth seeing.
Along the River Thames, another royal palace. But this one is better known as the Tower of London, the famous fortress which was a notorious prison.
This is not what the names (ph), is it?
It`s Traitors` Gate.
CLIVE TOWELL, YEOMAN GAOLER, TOWER OF LONDON (voice-over): Yes, the queens of England at least walk in for queen and country. Queen Anne Boleyn,
Henry`s second wife; Queen Catherine Howard; Lady Jane Grey; Princess Elizabeth, when she was a young princess, came through here into the Tower.
So we`ve had a lot of prisoners come through over the years, a very famous gate.
QUEST (voice-over): Those guarding the Tower are officially called yeomen of the guard. And everyone knows them as Beefeaters. Safely locked away
somewhere are the crown jewels. And we saw the best of them during the coronation.
But here, the feathered jewels, too. They are the ravens of the Tower, of their own superstition.
CHRIS SKAIFE, YEOMAN RAVENMASTER (voice-over): When the ravens leave the Tower of London will crumble to dust in the great harm will befall our
kingdom. So we keep six ravens here by royal decree.
QUEST (voice-over): Chris Skaife looks after those six ravens; actually, currently there are seven. He feeds them the very best that birds can eat.
SKAIFE: Here, I have a love diet of stuff like mice, rats, chicks, some white meat and red meat. In fact, we`re going to given them beef today. So
that`s what we`re going to feed them today.
QUEST: Would they peck at it?
SKAIFE: Yes, yes, they peck at it and rip at it, use their talons to pull it apart.
QUEST: So this -- it actually looks -- (INAUDIBLE).
SKAIFE: So we`re just going to make our way up here. Please mind the step as you are going up here. I`ve been looking after the ravens here at the
Tower of London for 17 years now.
So this is Poppy and that`s Georgie. Our youngest raven, his name is Rex and Rex obviously, that is Latin for king.
And if you`re like me, you go over there and just throw them out as far as you can, that`s all you need to do.
QUEST: Oh, but there is. Come on Rex, that`s for you.
SKAIFE: We`ve got Poppy coming over to you.
SKAIFE: Poppy is quite a character.
QUEST: I didn`t realize how beautiful they are. And how -- oh, oh, oh.
That`s it, isn`t it?
It`s you, it`s you.
QUEST: You`re just aware that they are faster, more agile than Hitchcock`s birds, isn`t it?
SKAIFE: I mean, I never really like to stare a raven in its eye, because it feels to me like they`re looking down into your soul.
QUEST (voice-over): The ravens remain here and the Tower is safe and secure, which is more than could be said for my pride.
Back at Fortnum`s and afternoon tea, William Hansen is ready for round three, the scones.
WILLIAM HANSON, BRITISH ETIQUETTE COACH (voice-over): Once they`re scone, they`re scone.
QUEST (voice-over): Like the tea, there is another, which goes first?
Now it`s jam or clotted cream.
I would like to know what the rules are.
HANSON (voice-over): Yes, in Britain we have no bigger social issues than whether the cream or the jam goes on first or last. However at this point -
- what are you going to do?
QUEST (voice-over): I`m going to cut the thing.
HANSON (voice-over): Don`t cut the scone.
HANSON (voice-over): Scones are broken.
QUEST (voice-over): I never did get the answer.
HANSON (voice-over): We are in London.
QUEST (voice-over): Yes.
HANSON (voice-over): Do whatever the heck you want. It doesn`t really matter.
QUEST (voice-over): Look at that.
HANSON (voice-over): And generally, we do it on the plate. So can you -- can you -- don`t be an air butterer.
Could you do it on -- press against the plate.
QUEST (voice-over): (INAUDIBLE)?
HANSON (voice-over): No, I would try to do it on the plate, if possible. That would be nice. But on the plate.
QUEST (voice-over): No.
QUEST (voice-over): Elbows on the plate.
HANSON (voice-over): Other than that, you`re doing marvelously well.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think you`ve broken it, I think you`ve actually broken it, he doesn`t know what to do.
HANSON (voice-over): Elbow.
QUEST (voice-over): Hmm?
HANSON (voice-over): Elbow.
Imagine -- (INAUDIBLE) -- it`s almost pudding (ph).
Imagine you`ve got a piece of paper underneath and you are just keeping that piece of paper tucked to the side of your body.
And when we are not, when we are not --
QUEST (voice-over): Sorry, that slurp just slipped out.
My nerves are now in a flutter and I`m not sure I`m hungry anymore.
QUEST (voice-over): If you think that King Charles is the only royalty in London, come meet the royalty of the East End of the city. The Pearly Kings
and Queens. A lot of the history of London`s famous markets.
Diane Gould is the Pearly Queen of St. Pancras.
DIANE GOULD, PEARLY QUEEN (voice-over): I don`t bestow this honor on many folk. OK, Richard, but I`m going to give you honor if you don`t mind. Where
might this --
QUEST (voice-over): Ohh! No.
GOULD (voice-over): -- these whistles died there (ph).
QUEST (voice-over): This jacket belonged to Diane`s dad, part of Pearly royalty, going back to the 19th century.
GOULD (voice-over): He wore this and he collected thousands and thousands of these many for charity.
QUEST (voice-over): Bees and honey?
Whistle and flute?
What on Earth is the woman talking about?
In the fruit and veg market, the most important families became the leaders of the Pearly Kings and Queens.
That is cool.
GOULD (voice-over): Isn`t it?
Right, so then this is -- this is --
QUEST (voice-over): Wow, just look at this. This is the coat --
GOULD (voice-over): Pearl coat buttons, yes. They`re not -- they`re not nice to their proper pure pearl buttons. And don`t you, to be honest, this
is the crown going on, this crown. You know dad would have loved you, seeing you, because you carry it well, Richard. He`s got easy go to go and
get these cheerio to take the ball of (INAUDIBLE).
QUEST (voice-over): Diane is speaking a tongue you may not understand. It`s cockney rhyming slang, the language of traditional London.
GOULD (voice-over): Right, you should (INAUDIBLE).
QUEST (voice-over): Here`s my hat, loaf of bread -- head.
GOULD (voice-over): Put your whistle and flute on.
QUEST (voice-over): Suit?
GOULD (voice-over): OK. Put your barefoot blues on.
QUEST (voice-over): Barefoot blues -- jeans.
GOULD (voice-over): No, barefoot blues --
QUEST (voice-over): Shoes.
They`re not barefoot blues, they`re --
GOULD (voice-over): Almond rocks, almond rocks.
QUEST (voice-over): Right on the right socks.
GOULD (voice-over): I think you`ve got it.
QUEST (voice-over): You don`t have to wait long before the Pearlies break out into song.
GOULD (voice-over): Well, done, you. He`s great, though, isn`t he?
QUEST (voice-over): I`m exhausted.
Contradictions abound, Pearly Kings and Queens, to high tea at Fortnum`s, where I am in for another bashing.
How have I done?
HANSON (voice-over): Well, Richard, after this particular afternoon tea, I can honestly say I have never sat through a tea like this before. And
although I feel like it should be me getting the certificate, I`m going to present this certificate of completion to you, in this lovely silver frame.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Adequate, just out of 10.
HANSON (voice-over): I think Richard has passed 7.5 out of 10, if it weren`t for the clinking, the inadvertent slurp.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The elbows?
HANSON (voice-over): Oh, and the elbows.
QUEST (voice-over): Would you mind?
HANSON (voice-over): Maybe it`s a 6.
QUEST (voice-over): Sorry.
HANSON (voice-over): Yes, I`ll have that back actually.
QUEST (voice-over): Before I finish, there`s one more London experience.
QUEST (voice-over): You could`ve lived in the city for years and there`s always some new experience to be had. I cannot believe that I had never
done the uppity 0.2 climb across the (INAUDIBLE) dome until now. Well, this is tremendous.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
OK on the legs?
QUEST (voice-over): Yes. Well, I mean, that`s a relative phrase.
Climbing the dome, it`s great fun, easy-ish to do. And like London itself, with hard work and persistence comes great reward.
It is easy to be intimidated by London for there is so much to do.
Never forget the quote of Samuel Johnson, "When a man is tired of London, he is tired of life, for there is everything here that life can afford."
So the answer is pick and choose. I`ve done those experiences that have helped me understand more about this magnificent city. And I believe and
for the better understanding of what makes it tick. London, truly at the heart of a world of wonder.
NEWTON: Hello, I`m Paula Newton in New York. Here`s your recap of the breaking news this hour.
We are following several new lines out of Israel this hour. The IDF says two Russian hostages are now on Israeli soil. Mossad said Moscow helped
negotiate the release of 50 year old Yelena Trupanov and 73 year-old Irena Tati.
CNN obtained this video from social media that seemed to show Hamas handing over the two hostages. Both were kidnapped from their kibbutz on October
Meanwhile, we are awaiting word on a separate, larger group of hostages expected to be freed by Hamas today as part of its truce deal with Israel.
Sources say that Hamas has given Israel the names of those hostages.
Israel is also anxiously awaiting news about the youngest hostage held in Gaza. Hamas says 10-month-old Kfir Bibas is no longer alive, along with his
mother and 4-year-old brother. The IDF says that it is investigating those claims and added that Hamas has full responsibility to care for its
That is it for us this hour. I am Paula Newton in New York. Our breaking news coverage continues right here with "THE LEAD WITH JAKE TAPPER." That
starts right now.