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Quest Means Business

Tensions Flare As Pakistan Strikes Targets In Iran; Cameron: We Need Immediate Pause Between Israel, Hamas; Report: Law Enforcement "Failure" In Uvalde School Shooting; Greek PM: Confident Europe Will Get Aid To Ukraine; Allianz CEO: Growing Detachment Between Political Leaders And The Public Is A Top Risk; Uber CEO Speaks With CNN; Uber CEO: We Must Press Ahead With EV Transition; Interview With SAP CEO Christian Klein; Talk In Davos Dominated By Artificial Intelligence; The Path To Human-Wildlife Coexistence In India. Aired 3-4p ET

Aired January 18, 2024 - 15:00:00   ET



RICHARD QUEST, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST: An hour to go of trading on Wall Street. The markets are up, the major markets. As you can see, sort of a

bullish day, not much to talk about our markets, but these are the main stories we're following for you.

Pakistan attacks as Iran. Tonight, you'll hear reaction from prime ministers across the board. You're also going to hear the CEO of Uber on

why he now wants to deliver groceries and delve further into our lives.

We are live at the World Economic Forum in Davos. It is Thursday. It's January the 18th.

Here's AI Al (ph). I'm Richard Quest, spruce you off a bit. Together, we mean business.

Good evening. The temperatures dropped somewhat and it is snowing, but it is our fourth and final day at WEF. It's all over, but the singing, as they

say, so that you'll have to join us all later tonight at the piano bar at the top.

AI was the biggest talker of the day and arguably of the week. OpenAI's Chief Executive Sam Altman took the stage, telling leaders they should be

optimistic, not afraid.

Now, Davos may be winding down, but we are most certainly not. On QUEST MEANS BUSINESS, we've saved, if you will, the best for last.

First, we start with Pakistan's retaliatory strikes in Iran. The latest sign of a spiraling conflict on the fringes of the Middle East. Pakistan

says it was targeting separatist hideouts along the border on the Iranian side. The Iranian state media reports 10 people have been killed.

Now, it follows Iran's deadly strikes in Pakistan two days ago, where it says it was strictly going after Iranian terrorists. Both countries have

long fought militants near their shared border.

Jim Sciutto is with me from Washington. Jim, now, I mean, the obvious but first question is, is this the sort of escalation that we would have -- you

know, that's coming from Hamas and Israel? Can we draw links, however, tangential?

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF US SECURITY ANALYST: Well, let's help the flash points right now in the region because they are numerous and dangerous. Of

course, you have a hot war in Gaza between Israel and Hamas. You have something of a low-grade conflict on Israel's northern border between

Israel and Hezbollah, like Hamas, also backed by Iran, you have Iranian militias that have been firing on US forces in both Iraq and Syria. You

have now a low-grade conflict between the US and UK against Houthi rebels in Yemen, which have been targeting international shipping of countless

countries that go through the Red Sea, and now you have here on the Iran- Pakistan border trading of strikes in both directions.

Now, that's dangerous because it's another flashpoint. But of that current array of flashpoints, this one might be relatively more manageable, and

that when you look at the Iranian strikes, yes, they cross the border into Pakistan but against what Iran says are ISIS targets there. This, of

course, followed an ISIS attack in Iran a number of weeks ago.

Pakistan then striking in Iran against what even though Iran's foreign minister said today were non-Iranians. This is a Baluchistan kind of

separatist group that is often based itself on Iranian territory. That smoke signal from the Iranian foreign minister might be something of a

tempering effect here saying, okay, those were not our people that were struck there, a sign that perhaps Iran does not want a conflict on that


That said, Richard, you and I have been watching flashpoints like these for, well, our entire careers.


SCIUTTO: Of course, the trouble is, they can get out of hand even with the best of intentions and even without the intention of going into a broader



QUEST: And that takes me to sort of down the road of asking -- this is an impossible question. I realized that, Jim, but it sort of goes to the core

of what everybody here in Davos has been worried about. How close are we to things getting out of control?

I understand it's a matter of a millimeter in either direction. But in your view, how close are we?

SCIUTTO: I asked US and western intelligence officials virtually every day what they believe Iran's intention is, right, because Iran pulls the

strings with a number of these groups, supports them -- Hamas, Hezbollah, the Houthis. Does Iran want a broader war? Does it want direct conflict,

for instance, with US forces?

And since those October 7th attacks on Israel, the general read -- and these are not certain assessments -- but the general read has been Iran

doesn't want a broader war. It's happy to see its proxies striking and causing damage where they can, does not want direct conflict with the US.

The trouble is, there are more fronts now and more proxies coming into conflict, direct conflict, in many cases, with, for instance, US and UK and

western forces.

What does it take? How thin is that barrier, that margin? It's pretty thin. The level of concern is genuine. It's real and is growing.

QUEST: I'm grateful Jim. Jim Sciutto in Washington. Thank you, sir.

US forces have carried out a fifth round of airstrikes today against Houthi targets in Yemen. The Pentagon says the strikes targeted anti-ship missiles

aimed at the southern Red Sea and ready to launch. President Biden tell reporters the strikes in Yemen will continue whilst acknowledging they have

not yet stopped the Houthis attacks. The rebel group claims it's targeting ships linked to Israel and its war in Gaza, although that is somewhat

tangential at best.

The British Foreign Secretary Lord Cameron says there needs to be an immediate pause in hostilities between Israel and Hamas. David Cameron

stopped short of calling for a ceasefire, saying a pause will provide important relief, perhaps lead to longer-term solution.


DAVID CAMERON, BRITISH FOREIGN SECRETARY: What we really need right now is an immediate pause that would help us to get aid in and get hostages out.

Then crucially, let's turn that pause into a sustainable ceasefire without hostility starting again, without destruction, without fighting.

Now for that to happen, some pretty big things would have to happen. We'd have to see the Hamas leadership come out of Gaza. We have to make sure

that Hamas are no longer capable of rocket and terror attacks on Israel. And crucially, we have to send in the Palestinian Authority revitalized and

refreshed to help do services and governance.

But that should be the aim, that should be the plan. Let's go from hostage release -- from pause to hostage release to ceasefire without going back to


QUEST: Can you understand that many people perhaps couldn't find that the distinction between pause and ceasefire is a semantic one, bearing in mind

the -- what's raining down on the guards there.

CAMERON: Let me tell you why it matters. If you just said let's have the total ceasefire now, the very next question you have is what are you going

to do about Hamas in Gaza? How are you ever going to have a two-state solution if you've still got the people who carried out October the seventh

running Gaza. It might be a popular thing to say, but it's not a credible policy.

QUEST: When you get -- you see, the reason people are concerned about it is pause to ceasefire because all those conditions that you've mentioned that

would happen in the interim, Israel has either said no, well, Hamas has either said no. So there is no realistic opportunity of getting those

things as for example the Egyptian peace plan.

CAMERON: But we've had pauses before. And when we did, that helped to get hostages out. And the difference today is not only the hostages been

captured for so many days, one really worries about their health, but also the humanitarian situation in Gaza is so serious. We've got -- and

according to some reports, nine out of 10 people in Gaza are living on less than a meal a day. So the need for that pause is so great.

Then I think you have those discussions to try and fulfill the next conditions. And I think that may be ambitious, but wouldn't it be good to

have that rather than back to the fighting?

QUEST: Ukraine is the other war at the moment. Now, you used an analogy that it was like the 1930s, like being a minister in the 1930s or a

government in Europe in the 1930. At the same time, the prime minister has said this is the most unstable time that -- in decades. So how do we -- you

navigate in the 1930s style?

CAMERON: The reason I made that analogy is in the 1930s, we didn't sufficiently stand up to a bullying dictator who was taking parts of other

people's countries. And I think what we've seen with Putin's invasion of Ukraine is the most naked, the most flagrant breach of another country's

sovereignty and territorial borders. And so, I think it's a challenge for our generation.


How do we respond to that? Do we back the Ukrainians with all that we've got? Do we stay in for as long as it takes? I say yes.

QUEST: The latest reports suggest that the Ukrainians are finding it much more difficult. And Russia, if not exactly prevailing, is certainly seeming

to be on a stronger footing. It's got armor production and all of this.

CAMERON: I would challenge that because look at the Black Sea. There, you've seen the Ukrainians pushed the Russian Navy right back across the

Black Sea. They've opened a grain corridor. They're exporting grain. Like 600 ships have been through that corridor, and they've sunk about 20% of

the Russian Navy.

So, you know, there is a different narrative here that Putin's, he's lost 300,000 people. He's lost half of the territory that he took. He's seen

NATO get bigger and stronger. This has been a strategic catastrophe for Putin.

QUEST: But now how he's got longer, and he has to keep going. And from the Ukrainians point of view, they look at the EU, who can't decide on whether

to put what they've decided to provide the aid, but they can't find the mechanism. And in the US, they -- the Republicans are holding it up in


And before you said I'm aware of what the prime minister has offered, these other two big groupings are not giving that same full-throated.

CAMERON: But that will happen. The EU money will be taken through. And I'm pretty confident the US money will, too. There is a majority in Congress to

support Ukraine because ultimately America knows that Ukrainian security, European security is also American security.

If you allow Putin to win in Ukraine, he'd be back for more. And we know from our history that when that happens, America ends up paying a bigger

price in treasure and also in lives lost.

I mean, right now, the Americans, for the use of 10% of their defense budget, have destroyed about 50% of Russia's military capacity without the

loss of a single American life.

QUEST: There's going to be an election in the UK in the next.


QUEST: Are you going to be an active part of it?

CAMERON: Yes, (inaudible).

QUEST: Now, you're an active part of the government. But I mean, you sort of been brought in and .

CAMERON: I look big. I haven't come in simply to be foreign minister and to do meetings .


CAMERON: . meetings like this, I am absolutely all-in.

QUEST: You'll campaign.

CAMERON: I will campaign. I'm a strong believer in Rishi Sunak and his plan. I think he's an excellent prime minister. He's got a very strong

team. He's got a great economic plan for Britain, and I want to get behind it.

QUEST: All right. Well, choose a color or I know where this is going.

CAMERON: (Inaudible). I'm going to get blue. I want a surprise.

QUEST: You want a surprise. (Inaudible).

CAMERON: Never surprise people on television. Now, what we got to do here? Explain to me.

QUEST: Right, I'll take it slowly, yes, okay. How ready do you think society is for AI?

CAMERON: We haven't nailed it, but I would say two things.

QUEST: (Inaudible). Okay.

CAMERON: No, no, okay. Never underestimate .

QUEST: A politician.

CAMERON: . no, the sophistication and thinking of individual voters and people. They are much smarter about these things, about, you know, what

happens when we searched for things on the -- they understand all these things. So I would -- and also, we got a prime minister who, of course,

held the first big AI summit. So I think we got to be a bit further this side and that side. So I think I'll go somewhere in the middle of that

green hole.


QUEST: That is Lord Cameron, the British foreign secretary on the chart. And we will show you how that's getting. And we're just getting started on


Still to come tonight, the prime ministers of Greece and South Korea. You're going to hear from the CEOs of Uber, Allianz, and SAP, a veritable

smorgasbord -- all on QUEST MEANS BUSINESS.



QUEST: A new report by the US Justice Department says 2022 Uvalde school shooting could have been stopped sooner by law enforcement. Nineteen

children and two teachers were killed during the massacre at the Robb Elementary School. US Attorney General Merrick Garland went to Uvalde in

Texas to discuss the report's findings.


MERRICK GARLAND, US ATTORNEY GENERAL: The law enforcement response at Robb Elementary School on May 24, 2022, and in the hours and days after was a

failure that should not have happened. Our children deserve better than to grow up in a country where an 18 year-old has easy access to a weapon that

belongs on the battlefield, not in a classroom.


QUEST: Now, after the report was released, some of the victims' family members spoke at their own news conference.


KIMBERLY RUBIO, MOTHER OF UVALDE VICTIM: I hope that the failures in today and the local officials do what wasn't done that day, do right by the

victims and survivors of Robb Elementary, terminations, criminal prosecutions.


QUEST: Evan Perez is in Uvalde in Texas. That's a heartbreaking listening to that, Evan.

There are really two issues here, aren't there? The first, of course, is the report talks about the failures of law enforcement, but not, if you

like, is only the follow-on from the mere fact that this was able to happen in the first place, the sheer number of guns that were able to be in

circulation, that it was allowed to happen.

EVAN PEREZ, CNN SENIOR JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Richard. And, look, I mean, one of the things that really stands out from this report is

just how everything that could go wrong went wrong that day. You had a shooter who fired 45 rounds while police were standing outside. We're

talking about 370 police officers while these children, while their teachers were trapped in this classroom -- this very tiny classroom with

this shooter.

The attorney general came here. He toured these murals that are painted on buildings in the town square. You know, again, heartbreaking reminder of

what happened that day. He also met with the families for about two hours, took their questions.

The big frustration though, Richard, is the fact that, you know, there are still some of these police officers who went to that school that day. That

are still serving, that are still law enforcement officers. They are still getting promotions. And that is a great frustration.

And you heard from the -- from one of the parents there, one of the big questions they also have is whether anyone would get charged under Texas

law for not being able to not doing their job that day. Those are still open questions for the parents -- Richard.

QUEST: Right. But, Evan, you know, watching worldwide, people will say, of course, when I was to look at the law enforcement response and the failure.

But if there weren't so many guns, then this wouldn't be such a big .


QUEST: . problem to begin with.

And I'm trying to drag my brains as to as a result of Uvalde. Has that or any of the others meaningful gun reform that's taken place that would have

allowed this not to have happened or in the future?

PEREZ: Right. No, that's the huge question that hangs over every one of these things. Richard, Columbine is 25 years ago. We have, of course, since

then tragic -- a tragedy that -- at Newtown where little babies, basically, were shot by a mass shooter.


And so, this one, in response to this, they did pass some legislation that the attorney general told me in an interview that has stopped the purchase

of about 500 guns by young people who were not supposed to have them. And so, they believe that they're making a little bit of progress. But

obviously, you're pointing to the glaring fact that these things -- these events keep happening in America.

And so, the only response that you see happening is how to get police to be better trained because we know one thing that there's going to be another

one of these and it's going to happen soon -- Richard.

QUEST: You're right. Reminders of that. Thank you, sir. Evan Perez in Texas.

PEREZ: Okay.

QUEST: Continuing now here in Davos, the European Parliament has adopted a resolution accusing the Hungarian government of undermining European

values. A majority said it was concerned about the further erosion of democracy and condemned the Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orban's

decision to block aid to Ukraine. The measure calls on the council to consider suspending Hungary's voting rights.

The Greek prime minister told me Europe will overcome the Hungarian obstacle in getting aid to Ukraine. There's a summit coming up at the

beginning of February.

I spoke to Kyriakos Mitsotakis earlier. And the prime minister said, Europe is aware of the urgency of this situation.


KYRIAKOS MITSOTAKIS, GREEK PRIME MINISTER: I am pretty sure we will get there. There is an understanding of the level of the council that this

decision needs to be taken on February 1st. And I'm pretty sure that the negotiations are advanced, and that we will be able to overcome the

Hungarian obstacle and get the deal done.

QUEST: Right. Does that mean that Hungary will find a diplomatic way to support it on all 27 report or you will end up with a sort of a plan B

bilateral, putting the money under the tea pot and moving around.

MITSOTAKIS: You know, when there is a plan B, it's always easier to get your plan A. So we know that there is an alternative. If necessary, we will

get the deal done just the 26 of us. It's going to be more complicated. It's going to take more time, but I think there is a way to address some of

the Hungarian concerns and a general understanding of the deal needs to take place now, and it will get done on February 1st.

QUEST: The Greek economy has come back very strongly, in a sense. I mean, there will be those who say that it's -- there's still a lot of damage and

still a lot of wreckage from the financial crisis. But by and large, it has largely recovered. But now you're being hit with this migration issue,

which is expensive for you. It is difficult, and there's no obvious easy solution.

MITSOTAKIS: Well, I would argue that Greece has probably managed the immigration problem better than most other European countries. Hence,

migration has not been a main issue in our elections. We won a resounding victory partly because we succeeded in managing the migration through a

tough but fair migration policy, which acknowledges the need to protect your borders, while at the same time opening up legal pathways for

migration for those who are interested to come and work in Greece.

At the end of the day, Richard, it's about who determines who enters Europe. It can't be the smugglers. These people are reckless and

responsible for numerous deaths. It has to be us.

So you have to build -- you can build a big fence, but you also need a big door. And this is what we tried to do.

QUEST: You don't put them on planes to Rwanda?

MITSOTAKIS: No, you don't put them on planes to Rwanda, but those who actually are denied asylum need to be returned to their countries of

origin, to send a very clear signal that if you come to Europe and you're not accepted, and you're not granted asylum, you need to be returned.

QUEST: The issue of where Europe goes next, there's enlargements on the agenda for quite a large number of countries are now sort of have started

the process. You've got Ukraine obviously now being the need -- being able to start formal negotiations. But I wonder whether the existing EU

structures are fit for purpose in a much larger EU.

MITSOTAKIS: We know that we have to rethink the way we do business in the European Union if we want to add more members. At the same time, in spite

of the complexity of having a 27 members around the table, we have done very well over the past four years.

QUEST: But you've not done as well as you could. I mean .

MITSOTAKIS: No, we have .

QUEST: . it's what Alex Stubb always describes as the suboptimal output.

MITSOTAKIS: Yes, but when you have 27 countries negotiating and having to reach a decision with unanimity, it is difficult to imagine what the

optimal outcome is because it's different for many member states. But just look at the RRF and the NextGenerationEU, this is -- for Greece, this is

EUR36 billion of additional European funding.

Post-COVID, critical for climate transition, digital transition, that was Europe at its best.


QUEST: Choose your color.

MITSOTAKIS: The color can only be blue, which is the color of Greece, our flag, and, of course, our party, so I don't have many options.

QUEST: I would like to tell you how many colors that is, you know, (inaudible). Ready for AI. Now, you can define it as you wish. You can even

have two or three if you want to sort of say, are politicians ready, are companies ready, is society ready. It's yours.

MITSOTAKIS: Well, I will go with politician. And I think politicians are probably closer to being unprepared for what is coming for the simple

reason that I think that there is a big sort of distinction between the level of sophistication of what's actually happening in AI and our

understanding of it. And usually, when we don't understand something as politicians, we tend to overregulate.


QUEST: The board, the question of trust, and the way forward. The chief executive of Allianz, one of the world's largest insurance firms and asset

managers, says their number one risk this year is the growing division between political leaders and the public. Oliver Bate joins me here. And,

of course, he was also on the board.


OLIVER BATE, CEO, ALLIANZ: This year, the increasing detachment of those that run things, political leaders, and what everyday people that actually

work feel in the workplace in everyday life.

QUEST: How can you say that? When half the world's democracies, populations (inaudible) are going to vote this year. If you're right, that doesn't bode


BATE: No, and you can see it in my home country. You see the Netherlands, you'd see it in France. They're very unhappy -- the voters -- very unhappy.

QUEST: But we've heard that before and that's as a result. So you end up with Brexit, you end up with the first Trump administration.

BATE: Yes.

QUEST: You too -- you end up with Macron originally .

BATE: Yes.

QUEST: . when he got elected in France. So that's not new. What's different?

BATE: What's different is I think that would you have expected that 20% of the Germans would consider voting far-right because they're so unhappy with

all the other existing parties. I would have not thought this to be possible 10 years ago.

QUEST: So this is really a backlash to elites of which you and I would be classed as part of it.

BATE: Yes.

QUEST: Ignoring the issues of most people.

BATE: Yes, particularly those that carry most of the burden now, I.E., those that work or those that are in retirement and have worked all their

life, and they have no access to affordable health care, housing costs are going up, food is going up.

And then the leaders tell them, don't worry, inflation is down. It's under control. Don't worry about Mr. Putin. We had him always under control.

Don't worry about climate change. We have it under control, and we don't.

QUEST: So what do you want them to do about it?

BATE: What I want them to do about it, well, you know, as a citizen I have a certain view on what things. But the key thing is stop talking, do some

practical things that work.

So in Germany, it would be great if the trains would be on time, if the schools would really open. And so there would be a couple of things that I

would suggest we focus on.

QUEST: Why do you think that we don't have that? Because politicians know what needs to be done.

BATE: The issue is priority setting, on the one hand. And on the other thing, if priorities changed as they have changed with COVID with the wars,

you need to know that you can spend the euro ones and not three times, that there are limits to debt capacity. And you need tell you electorate

something that they don't like to hear the first time, but they understand. You have to take money from someplace and put it in another place.

And it's very hard to explain to a population that your trains are not on time, the schools are not working, (inaudible) can't find teachers, but

we're trying to rescue the world. Yes, we're trying to rescue Syria, we're trying to rescue Africa, we're trying to rescue climate. Everything has to

be rescued except for the people that do work every day.

QUEST: Joe Biden really hit that head on in terms of Ukraine, that if we don't do what we are doing in Ukraine, then eventually it will end up on

our doorstep in a different way.

BATE: And I totally agree. But then you say .

QUEST: But (inaudible)?

BATE: But -- no, no. But if you say I'm spending 40 billion plus on Ukraine .


BATE: . and you need to say, I need to take those 40 billion from somewhere else, I cannot spend the money twice.

QUEST: All right. And that means taking it from where? Domestic -- that means taking from domestic programs and even in a worse situation.

BATE: Yes. But, for example, we have lots of subsidies in Europe, in Germany for sectors. We're still, for example, subsidize energy consumption

in certain areas where it makes no sense.

But it's very hard for politicians. I do not envy them. I have a lot of respect for what they do. But at some point, you need to tell people the

truth. You cannot do everything at the same time.


QUEST: That's the CEO of Allianz. As we continue with our smorgasbord, if you will, the chief executive of Uber will discuss electric vehicles and

his take on AI.


DARA KHOSROWSHAHI, CEO, UBER: And there's this drama of are the robots going to take over. But the fact is that technology usually augments human

beings, makes human beings more powerful.




QUEST: Ah, it's real snow. It's not sticking yet, but it's there. The chief executive of Uber says his company is devoting $800 million to help

its drivers transition to E.V.s. Dara and I discussed his recent article in "Fast Company" where he argues that it's time to speed up the shift to

electric vehicles. But of course, in doing so in that article, there was a lot of talk about what everybody else has to do. So, I wanted to know for -

- from Dara what does Uber have to do?


KHOSROWSHAHI: I think the good news, to start with is that, E.V. penetration is increasing all over the world. So, for example, on Uber, the

Uber driver is seven times more likely to move over to E.V.s because of the economic incentives we're putting forward because of the quality of the

cars, et cetera. And the average Uber driver is driving four to five times more than the average driver.

QUEST: What's your responsibility in all of this? Because I read the article --


QUEST: -- and there were lots of, well if this city council did this, and if this government did that, and if that tax break was made available. So,

what's your role?


KHOSROWSHAHI: The majority of our drivers, a couple of years ago, were buying gasoline powered cars. And we want to encourage them to switch over

to E.V.s, and we're putting up $800 million of our own capital to improve the economics for an E.V. driver. For example, they get more money per ride

if they are driving an E.V. so that they can make more money, so that they can pay the premium for that electric vehicle.

So, we don't believe that it's, you know, everyone else. We are absolutely doing our part. We are pushing forward, but climate is a team sport. We

need everyone.

QUEST: Charging of the vehicles is quite significant in terms of the range and the regulation. What I -- I've been doing a bit of looking into this.


QUEST: It's all in the detail.

KHOSROWSHAHI: For drivers, they are often charging every single day. And what we do is we actually help them on the app to know where they can

charge. We'll tell them the best time to charge, et cetera. And usually, if they're integrated, if we integrate with the car -- the smart car, then we

can tell that driver, we won't give them a dispatch that's too long so that they can be comfortable knowing that their charge isn't going to go away

and there's a charger right next door to charge up again.

QUEST: The ride sharing, for want to -- a better phrase, I'm sure you've got a more elegant phrase you'd prefer to use. Because it's becoming very

frothy. There's lots of -- there's more competitors now.

KHOSROWSHAHI: Well, actually, there's a lot of competition because it's a big market.

QUEST: Exactly.

KHOSROWSHAHI: But at the same time, the public markets now are making demands on companies' profitability, et cetera. So, we actually like what's

going on. There's discipline going on, and the companies that innovate, the companies that lean in are the ones who win, and we're in a pretty good


QUEST: What's next? I mean, I know you're not going to tell me your secret plan that's in the bottom drawer of your desk. But what would you like to

get into that you're not into at the moment?

KHOSROWSHAHI: So, two things I would say in terms of what Max says (ph). First of all, what is old is new again. Uber is having taxi on the

platform. We have New York taxis, and quite soon in London, we're going to have the iconic London black cabs on Uber again.

QUEST: Those London cabs are going to be in competition with your other Uber drivers.

KHOSROWSHAHI: Well, the customer is going to win. And the fact is that on demand mobility technology, this should be available to everyone. Why

should we make the demand that we bring and all the tourists coming into London available to the famous London black cabs? The other, I will tell

you, is groceries on demand.

You know, I don't know about you, but there are some people who like grocery shopping. But I, for one, don't look forward to going to the

supermarket, et cetera. Now, I have my shopping list, and I can actually have -- order it on Uber, and it all gets delivered to my home, usually

within half an hour to an hour.

QUEST: So, you want to dig deeper and deeper into my way of life?

KHOSROWSHAHI: I'm hoping to. Absolutely.

QUEST: By the way --

KHOSROWSHAHI: Uh oh. Uh oh. What is this?

QUEST: Choose your color.

KHOSROWSHAHI: Are these writing elements? Is there a keyboard here?

QUEST: I'll help you.

KHOSROWSHAHI: I've never seen these things for years. What are they called again?


KHOSROWSHAHI: Can I speak to it? Can I speak to this? I've never seen these instruments.

QUEST: I shall show you.

KHOSROWSHAHI: Oh, thank you.

QUEST: I shall -- but which --

KHOSROWSHAHI: Thank you very much.

QUEST: But if you had to choose a color that's cool, which one would it be?

KHOSROWSHAHI: I'm going to go green. Go.

QUEST: But as a society, where do you think we are in being ready? Are we dangerously unprepared or have we nailed it?

KHOSROWSHAHI: So, I would say we think we're somewhere over here, but I'm much more of an optimist. So, I would say that we are here, and hopefully

if we are -- if we do our job, we move over. You know, I do think that there's a lot of fear in terms of A.I. It's a new technology, people are

worried about it. And I think there are some who talk about A.I. taking jobs, et cetera. And there's this drama of, are the robots going to take

over? But the fact is that technology usually augments human beings, makes human beings more powerful.


QUEST: So, that's the question that we have been asking all week. How prepared are we for A.I.? And we were -- we -- we've given a generous

range. And as you can see, it's fairly evenly spread across. But we've been asking the world leaders, CEOs, and everyone in between.

Now, Sam Altman, whose OpenAI company helped trigger the debate, spoke today. And he says humans will remain in control of their destiny.


SAM ALTMAN, CEO, OPENAI: That sort of OpenAI style of model --


ALTMAN: -- is good at some things, but not good at, sort of, like a life and death situation. We will all have access to a lot more capability. And

we'll still, like, make decisions. They may trend more towards curation over time, but we will make decisions about what should happen in the




QUEST: Now, this gentleman thinks 2024 will be transformative for A.I. And he's putting his money where his mouth is. He's spending a great deal

on A.I. He's SAP's chief executive Christian Klein, who's with me. You really are -- you're not betting the ranch on it, but it's a very

significant and important part of your future.

CHRISTIAN KLEIN, CEO, SAP: Absolutely, Richard. I mean, as SAP, we are running 85 percent of the world's transactions. And we are the ones who can

embed A.I. in all of your business processes. So, in travel, as you know, as a happy end user of Concur, but in supply chain, in HR, in finance. So,

we can really make an impact right away at the end user in the business processes of our customers, and this is huge for us.

QUEST: Can you actually identify the benefits to you -- to SAP of A.I.?

KLEIN: Absolutely. I mean, when we talk about finance automation, I mean, we can exactly see, you know, what the people do today. How manually they

do the approvals, how many documents they need to manage, and how we can automate all of that. But we can also do even more powerful use cases when

it comes about predicting sales in such a volatile market and how to optimize inventory. It can remove billions of in -- over-inventory. So,

this is huge.

So, absolutely. And you have to quantify it because you have to justify the investments into A.I.

QUEST: So, are you -- I mean, from what I've read, you're doing a combination of organic investment in the sense of building it internally.


QUEST: Let's face it, you've got enough engineers who could do it. But you're also going to have to look for acquisitions in, I think you say,

where necessary.

KLEIN: Partnerships, yes, we are. I mean, we just saw Sam and, you know, OpenAI is a great partner, but we also are partnering with Anthropic. So,

we are very agnostic to the large language models. But what is our biggest treasure? It's our data. And this is, you know, what only SAP can do.

QUEST: Right. But in terms of the use of the data Yes. The ability, I mean, can you develop sufficiently or will you have to acquire companies to

get where you want to go?

KLEIN: Yes, I mean, first of all, we have great engineers.

QUEST: Right.

KLEIN: And we have a lot of organic innovation and we have a lot of business data. So, our copilot, Joule, will not only talk CIM. Joule tool

will talk finance, H.R., supply chain, ESG, sustainability data, and that makes it very powerful.

QUEST: I've had CEOs of manufacturing --


QUEST: -- who basically say, Richard, A.I. is in every machine in the factory.

KLEIN: Absolutely.

QUEST: A.I. is now in everything. But I guess we're blurring the distinction of what's A.I. and what's not.

KLEIN: Yes, I mean, look, A.I. is in every machine. A.I. is in every app of SAP. And when you're running your shop floor in a factory, it's actually

getting connected to our systems. And we can, together, make sure that we can do way better the predictive maintenance, that you have much lower

downtimes in your factory. And so, it's all about A.I., but A.I. is embedded in the shop floor, but A.I. is also embedded in all of our


QUEST: Choose your color.

KLEIN: I mean, I have to choose blue, it's SAP blue.

QUEST: And everyone else.


QUEST: Come over here, sir. All right, you know the question.


QUEST: You've seen others do it.


QUEST: Where would you be on this ready for A.I.? How ready, as a society?

KLEIN: As a society?

QUEST: Yes. Where are we?

KLEIN: I would say I would put it here right in the middle.

QUEST: Well, isn't that a bit optimistic?

KLEIN: Ah, look, there are certain things we still have to solve.

QUEST: Well, which of these are you most concerned?

KLEIN: The most concern is still around -- you know, we still need to, especially in the business world, is something where the SAP is keen on. We

need to make sure that we have higher courtesy (ph) for A.I. And there is still some work to do.

QUEST: Sir, thank you very much for braving the cold.

KLEIN: I mean, it's beautiful.

QUEST: It is.

KLEIN: It's so beautiful. Snowfall of Davos.

QUEST: Did you have a good Davos?

KLEIN: I had a great Davos.

QUEST: Excellent. We'll see you next time. Thank you very much indeed.

KLEIN: Thank you.

QUEST: Now, as we continue tonight on "Quest Means Business", how one conservationist is trying to stem the human elephant conflict in India.

Only five percent of the terrain is devoted to nature. Oh, there's the elephant.



QUEST: With 1.4 billion people, and so the deadliest species on Earth, India, has a huge human wildlife conflict on its hands. As part of Rolex's

Perpetual Planet Initiative, the conservationist scientist Krithi Karanth has pioneered a program to encourage safe behaviors towards animals.


BILL WEIR, NARRATOR (voice-over): Across the fertile lands of the Western Ghats, watchtowers stand as a warning. On average, elephant attacks in

India Kill one person a day. And for the communities living on the margins of a nature reserve, life can be a fight for survival.


100,000 odd incidents per year reported. So, really, the scale of the problem is massive.

WEIR (voice-over): India is the most populous country in the world and has the highest number of tigers and Asian elephants. Yet only about five

percent of its terrain is reserved for nature. Conservation scientist Krithi Karanth has spent more than 15 years looking for solutions to the

inevitable conflict between people and wildlife.

KARANTH: You have large charismatic megafauna living next to really high densities of people. They're going to come to raid crops or they're going

to come and get livestock. How do you kind of balance this without things really blowing up?

WEIR (voice-over): Krithi's mission is to map out and rewild farmland surrounding the nature reserves. By partnering with farmers, she hopes to

replace traditional crops with trees, creating a buffer area designed to limit contact with wildlife.

KARANTH: We're working with farms that are located within two kilometers from the edge of these parks. It's literally like stitching a quilt

together, and one square here and one square here and one square there. The idea is fundamentally that you're going to have trees that give them an

income so that they transition slowly from agriculture to agroforestry.

WEIR (voice-over): Krithi's work is deeply rooted in this region. Growing up in the Western Ghats, her passion for wildlife started at a very young

age when she joined her father, leading tiger biologist Ulas Karath, on field trips into the jungle. He was the first biologist to radio collar

wild tigers in India at a time when the species was nearly extinct.

ULAS KARANTH, TIGER BIOLOGIST AND CONSEVATIONIST: Because the rate at which forests were being cleared, animals were being hunted, we didn't have

a strong protection law. No one was interested in wildlife. Now, I'm far more optimistic, actually. Things have come back. I never expected this

outcome 60 years ago.

WEIR (voice-over): India's tigers have more than doubled in the past decade and a half. A triumph for impassioned conservationists like Krithi

and her father. Now, she hopes to instill her dedication and respect for nature in children through an environmental education program.

KARANTH: These are kids who are seeing India's extraordinary wildlife, and I think building that connect to nature makes a huge difference in a way

that it's not done through boring textbooks.


It's done through art. It's done through games. It's done through storytelling.

WEIR (voice-over): The program was created to build tolerance and crucially safe behavior around animals. It has already reached more than

700 schools and over 30,000 children living near nature reserves in India.

KARANTH: There's no other country in the world which has these kinds of animals living with this many people. Can you make sure that as they

transition into adults, they make decisions that are not retaliatory and more reflective on how to share space with animals?


QUEST: Absolutely fascinating. Now, for more on our "Call to Earth" partnership, visit


QUEST: South Korea's Prime Minister tells me he is not worried over rising tensions with Pyongyang, even though North Korea's leader Kim Jong Un

recently declared the South the principal enemy, and said he would no longer seek reconciliation.

I sat down with the Prime Minister here in Davos.


HAN DUCK-SOO, SOUTH KOREAN PRIME MINISTER: In our constitution, we made it very clear that Korea should adopt liberal democratic order for the

unification in a peaceful way. So, no other forms of unification cannot be accepted emotionally and practically and legally by, you know, the Republic

of Korea -- South Korea.

But maybe, North Korea may think otherwise. They think that possibly, their regimes might prevail -- may prevail in the process of unification, which

is totally not acceptable.

QUEST: Do you worry about this increase in military? More missiles being fired? That's even before we get to the nuclear question, but I mean, does

that concern South Korea?

DUCK-SOO: Well, without those kinds of provocations, the situation might be better. But we are not so much worried because we are so much accustomed

to what they have been doing.


While they are saying that, OK, we should be unified and we should be one country. We are one people. But what they have been doing is not in

compliance with what they are saying. So, two things are clear. We will open our doors and windows for negotiations, dialogue, and diplomacy. But

up to now, North Korea have never accepted in a very, very serious way.

So, what we will do in between is that no options but to make clear deterrence capabilities for us to deter their threat and dissuade them to,

you know, not to proliferate and also, you know, persuade them to have more interest in dialogue and diplomacy.

QUEST: Normally I would hesitate before inviting one leader to comment on an election in another country. But if it looks likely that Donald Trump is

the nominee and possibly the next U.S. president, that has huge ramifications for the North-South Korea relationship.

DUCK-SOO: Well, the leader of the United States is so, so powerful and important for the global community, not only for Korea. So, certainly, we

hope that everything -- you know, whoever is elected in the election, our relations between Korea and the United States will be still on the same

page. And I expect that kind of phenomenon will -- to continue.

Korea and the United States is not just a normal relationship. It's a blood forged relationship. And we have the 70 years of one of the most successful

alliances. So, in the next 70 years, we expect them to continue.

QUEST: The whole area is sort of infirm and in some sense, what role do you see that South Korea can play when it comes to issues like Taiwan and


DUCK-SOO: Well, first of all, the peace and stability in the Taiwan Strait is critically important to Korea and also for the region and maybe for the

world. And I think that the China and Taiwan will find some solutions for maintaining peace and stability in the region. Korea's diplomatic positions

toward China and Taiwan has never been changed.


QUEST: That is the Prime Minister of South Korea. We will have our "Profitable Moment" in the sun with AIL (ph) in a moment.


QUEST: Tonight's "Profitable Moment". This Davos I don't think has been a barn burner. It's not going to go down in history as one of the greats. But

important issues have been discussed.