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Quest Means Business

Trump Testifies In His Own Defense At New York Defamation Trial; US Economy Grows At Robust 3.3 Percent Annualized Rate In Q4; Musk: Chinese Automakers Could Dominate Global Market; Qatar Slams Alleged Netanyahu Criticism Of Hostage Talks; An Evening With Hong Kong's Wildlife; Percival Menswear Leans Into Collaborations, Exclusivity. Aired 3-4p ET

Aired January 25, 2024 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:30]

RICHARD QUEST, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST: An hour to go before the end of trade and the markets are open and doing business. That's the way the Dow

is looking at the moment, up 102, that's sort of a solidly sort of day. It's economic news that's driving the markets. I'll get to that in just a

moment.

The main events, Donald Trump is on the stand. The former president testified for a few minutes at his civil defamation trial. What's the

significance? We will ask.

US economic growth is unexpectedly strong. There are signs the public is starting to notice.

And the debate that's getting international diplomats involved. I like a nice cup of tea in the morning. How to make the proper cup of tea and

someone is suggesting it might involve salt.

Live from London, Thursday, January 25th. I'm Richard Quest. I know you may not recover from that though. I mean business.

Good evening.

Donald Trump has taken the stand at a New York courtroom. It's for his civil defamation trial brought against him by the former magazine

columnist, E. Jean Carroll. It will decide -- the case is deciding how much Donald Trump has to pay in damages. The former president spoke for about

four minutes in the last hour speaking in his own defense.

Our senior legal analyst is Elie Honig. He is with me.

Do we know what was said? What can you tell me?

ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: So Richard, I've seen the reporting from inside the courtroom. Indeed, the entire testimony was about three

minutes long. It fit into the time of one commercial break here at CNN, and the reason it was so short was because the judge set very strict

parameters. This trial is not about whether there was a sexual assault. This trial is not about whether Donald Trump defamed Miss Carroll, that is

already established. This trial is simply about damages.

And so essentially, the questions boiled down to do you stand by your deposition, the statements you made in your deposition about the events in

question? Donald Trump said, yes, I don't know what that really establishes whether one stands by their deposition. It is what it is.

And then there were questions about you only made your statements about Miss Carroll after she had publicly accused you of sexually assaulting her,

which is a fact, and Donald Trump said yes. And I think they're trying to show there that Donald Trump didn't sort of start this on his own volition,

and then the last thing Donald Trump said was, I made my statements because I was attempting to protect my reputation and my family.

So it was really sort of uncontroversial what he said, and I don't know how much it helped him with the jury.

QUEST: So what was the point, do you think?

HONIG: I'm sorry, I lost your audio. Say that again?

QUEST: Oh, forgive me. What was the point, do you think of him testifying?

HONIG: I think part of it was just bravado and just wanting to take the stand and wanting to feel like he stood up for himself and wanting to make

a spectacle.

I guess, if I had to sort of give the benefit of the doubt and say substantively, I guess it reminded the jury that Donald Trump didn't just

pick E. Jean Carroll out of nowhere, that he was responding to her defensively. I don't think that undermines the fact that it was defamatory

as a prior jury found.

So I'm not sure that it really mattered that much, in terms of the substance, I think is much more about the spectacle and the point of, I got

on the stand then, I defended myself.

QUEST: This is the how long is a piece of string question. With your experience of damages, what are we looking at here? The range that they

come back with.

HONIG: So I think a good indicator is the first trial and remember, this is actually the second of two E. Jean Carroll trials. In the first trial, the

jury came back with a finding of $5 million in damages. Now, that will certainly be appealed. But I think if we use that as a guidepost here, I

think I would expect to see a verdict in the range of multiple millions of dollars.

Now in this case, E. Jean Carroll is asking for up to $10 million, but what the jury has to do really is separate damages into two categories. One is

compensatory damages, meaning how much financial damage to her job prospects, to her reputation did E. Jean Carroll suffer? And then there is

what we call punitive damages, meaning there needs to be a message sent to this person to dissuade him to punish him.

So we'll see whether the jury awards both of those and how they add up.

QUEST: Thank you, sir. Good to have you, as always. Wish you well. Thank you.

HONIG: Thanks, Richard.

QUEST: US economy keeps defying expectations. It grew at a tremendous pace in Q4 with 3.3 percent annualized, more than double expectations.

[15:05:07]

President Biden and the US Treasury secretary, Janet Yellen, both welcomed the news.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Yesterday, we learned the economy of the United States grew by 3.1 percent last year. Well, thanks to

the American people, America now has the strongest growth, the lowest inflation rate of any major economy in the world.

JANET YELLEN, US TREASURY SECRETARY: Though some forecasters thought a recession last year was inevitable, President Biden and I did not. Instead

of contracting, the economy has continued to grow.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

QUEST: Inflation has fallen despite the robust growth, and it has raised hopes for a soft landing, and the S&P 500, it has pushed it to record

highs, but it is still above target, give or take.

Paul Krugman is the Nobel Prize winning economist. He's here with me to put all this into perspective.

So Paul, look, I'll admit I'm one of those people that Janet Yellen was talking about. I know you weren't, but I was -- I thought it was a racing

certainty that there would be a recession because of the speed at which rates went up, but now the soft landing is de facto baked in.

PAUL KRUGMAN, ECONOMIST AND COLUMNIST, "THE NEW YORK TIMES": Yes, I mean, basically we have soft landed. I mean, if we look at the Fed's preferred

measure of underlying inflation, which is supposed to be two percent core PCE for the last two quarters, it has been two percent. So we're right

there. We're at full employment.

I mean, there is always a risk that the economy could tip into a recession, that there may be some lag effects of those rate hikes, but right now we

are pretty much exactly where we want to be.

QUEST: What do you attribute the fact that we've had those phenomenally high rate hikes in short order, but growth has managed to or not has

managed, it has been robust. Why do you think that has been the case?

KRUGMAN: Okay. I mean, the major answer is, nobody really knows. Right? So this has been, I thought -- I didn't think we needed a recession. I was one

of those people who thought that inflation would come down without one, but I would have expected more impact.

Part of the answer is there are some Biden policies that have been boosting the economy -- the green energy subsidies, the semiconductor subsidies I've

been promoting.

We're getting a lot of this -- of manufacturing investment. Some of it is that people had saved up money from previous government programs. Some of

it is, you know, economists have a perfect track record when it comes to predicting recessions that you would have never ever gotten one right.

So why should we be surprised that we kind of -- didn't quite -- you know, in this case, we predicted one, I didn't, but a lot of people predicted

one. They weren't right. Well, when were they ever right?

QUEST: So in the scenario we are now in, in your article, you talk about the vibesession, which has now become the phrase de jure. The vibesession,

new phrase, what does it mean?

KRUGMAN: Well, I meant that, it still means given the economic numbers, given low inflation, low unemployment, you would expect consumer sentiment

to be pretty high, we would -- people should be feeling pretty good about this economy and they aren't. That's picked up a lot lately.

But even so, particularly if you break it along partisan lines, if you believe Republicans, they tell surveys that this is as a terrible an

economy as the depths of the Great Recession, or that it's as bad as it was in 1980 when we had 14 percent inflation.

So there's still a gap between at least what people say about the economy and the reality.

QUEST: Isn't one of the problems that when inflation comes down, all we're really talking about is the rate at which prices are going up, it is

slowing. The actual price that people pay doesn't come down. So people go to the supermarket, and although you know, the bag of sugar isn't going up

as much, it's still a lot more than they paid a year or two ago and that's what they remember.

KRUGMAN: Well, it's not much more than it was a year ago. I mean, grocery prices are up only around one percent over the past year, but it is higher

if you look back two or three years.

This whole people look at the level of crisis thing, it is plausible, it makes sense. It kind of is what people say. But the more I look at it, the

less it is supported by the data. I mean, if we actually look at a variety of indicators, consumer sentiment started improving as soon as inflation

started coming down.

You know, price increases under Biden so far, are almost exactly the same as they were by this point in Reagan's first term. And as we remember,

Reagan won a landslide victory on a good economy in 1984.

[15:10:06]

So I'm not sure that you know, it's one of those -- it sounds right, but it isn't really supported by the facts.

QUEST: Listen to Christine Lagarde, president of the ECB speaking today, they left rates on hold, the ECB, and she scotched or poured cold water on

ideas that the ECB may move and cut before they earn.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRISTINE LAGARDE, PRESIDENT, EUROPEAN CENTRAL BANK: The Governing Council today decided to keep the three key ECB interest rates unchanged. The

incoming information has broadly confirmed our previous assessment of medium term inflation outlook.

Well, first of all, the consensus around the table of the Governing Council was that it was premature to discuss rate cuts.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

QUEST: The FOMC is much more willing to start considering rate cuts. When do you think -- I mean, when do you think they will do? But bearing in mind

today's numbers, to suggest you don't really want to start cutting and risking stoking a good economy into an overheating one.

KRUGMAN: Yes, I mean, there is a question of when they will and when they should. When they should, I think is despite that strong number, they

should immediately start cutting rates because real rates are really rate adjusted for inflation that is really, really high. And although that

hasn't slowed the economy so far, you still have to say that's playing with fire, that is running the risk of a gratuitous recession and inflation

looks under control.

When they will, you know, we'll get a couple more inflation prints, but that may -- it's still -- I don't think it's impossible that they'll do it

as early as March, but they are a lot more data dependent than the ECB, although I would say not data dependent enough.

QUEST: Good to see you, sir. As always, I'm grateful. Thank you very much for joining us.

KRUGMAN: Thank you.

QUEST: Tesla shares are down very sharply. Look at that, 12 percent on slowing sales numbers. The company is warning that the Chinese electric

vehicles could demolish the competition.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

QUEST: Elon Musk is warning that China's electric car makers could demolish the competition. As a result, Tesla's shares plunged on the company's

latest results.

[15:15:04]

Deliveries rose 38 percent, now that's a lot less than the 50 percent target it set and it warned growth this year may be notably slower.

Elon Musk said, the biggest threat to Tesla is coming from China. Shenzhen based BYD outsold Tesla for the first time last quarter, and is now looking

to build its EVs in Europe, and during the earnings call, he discussed his push for a 25 percent voting withdrawal in Tesla.

He owns roughly 13 percent of the company's stock.

Clare Duffy is with me.

Clare, is Elon Musk just the wolf that -- you know, the boy that cried wolf.

CLARE DUFFY, CNN BUSINESS WRITER: I mean, Richard, I think there's sort of two parts here. On one hand, you have Tesla, which used to be able to take

comfort in the fact that it was essentially unmatched in this electric vehicle space, and that is just longer the case, especially when you're

talking about these Chinese EV makers.

The company in an effort to keep up has been slashing prices. The company said last night, that margins were nearly cut in half in the fourth quarter

compared to a year ago, and I think that's what shareholders wanted to hear last night was now that you're no longer the only player in this game, what

is your plan to compete? When do we see an end to these price cuts? And that's what Musk and team largely failed to deliver on last night.

They sort of touched on the fact that there may be a new lower priced vehicle coming in the next couple of years. But I mean, you look at that

stock price down 12 percent today, it's down about 25 percent from the start of this year.

I think people have real questions and questions, too about Musk's leadership at Tesla. In this difficult moment, he's not able to give people

the answers that they want, and then you hear him talking about wanting to raise his ownership stake in Tesla and there are shareholders who I think

rightfully have brought up this question that it was Elon Musk himself, who decided to sell off a large portion of his Tesla ownership in order to fund

his acquisition of Twitter in 2022. He didn't have to do that.

A lot of people see that acquisition as having been a distraction for him, and so I think there are some questions about why he decided to do that,

and why now he's talking about wanting to raise his stake in Tesla again -- Richard.

QUEST: Does he have the power to do that? I mean, I was surprised when I heard he only owned 13 percent. I thought it was a higher -- in fact, I

thought he had a controlling stake.

DUFFY: It was -- I will say it was 22 percent before that Twitter acquisition, before he sold off all of those shares to buy Twitter. And so,

he is sort of wanting to get back to right where he was before the Twitter purchase.

QUEST: Right. But is there any likelihood that the board will agree to that?

DUFFY: I think, you know, the Tesla board is dealing with this question of whether Elon Musk is sort of too central to the company's success, what is

going to happen? What is the succession plan? And so I think it is a sort of question for the board and a question for Musk of how much do they

really want to tie Elon to the success of this company?

QUEST: Apple, so Apple is making concessions on third-party apps in Europe, but not elsewhere. Why?

DUFFY: So, you think this is a sign of just how successful European regulators have been over US regulators or regulators anywhere else in

getting Apple and these Big Tech companies to change some of the business practices that they see as anti-competitive.

And for Apple, I mean, the company's business -- the business model has always been around creating this ecosystem. Some people would call it a

walled garden where you have to have your Apple computer to sync with your Apple iPhone and your Apple iPhone to sync with your Apple Watch and you

get your apps from your Apple App Store.

And so allowing now third-party app stores to be on iPhones in Europe is perhaps a small move, but I think we're seeing some of those bricks be

removed from the wall around that Apple garden -- Richard.

QUEST: Clare, it is good to see you. I'm grateful. Thank you.

The Boeing 737 Max 9 fleet will be back in the skies before too long. The US regulator, the FAA, has approved inspection rules that airlines can now

use to get them back into service.

However, for Boeing, it's a somewhat different story. The authority says it's not approving any additional production lines for the 737 Max, and

that won't change until quality control issues have been addressed and resolved.

Boeing shares are dropping down six percent, and that obviously takes the Dow down sharply. They are off more than 20 percent Since the Alaska

incident on January 5th.

Miles O'Brien, our aviation analyst is with me.

Let's get one quick question an answer on, if you like, the issue de jure before we turn. This is good news for the airlines. It means they're all

pretty much going to have the Maxes back in the air in a matter of weeks.

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN AVIATION ANALYST: Yes, Richard and I think the traveling public shouldn't be too terribly worried about these particular aircraft.

They are going through each of them a 12-hour inspection. Every nut and bolt I'm sure will be looked at with great scrutiny and so I think these

aircraft will be okay to fly.

What lurks behind all this, of course though is the big picture of what is going on, on the Boeing assembly line and are there other problems that

haven't come to light just yet?

QUEST: Now, this goes to the culture question and the safety. I've read numerous articles in the last week as I'm sure you have.

[15:20:08]

It's all people decrying Boeing's culture. The engineers are no longer in charge, and it became profit related and they tie it back to the purchase

of McDonnell Douglas and then people throwing, selling off Spirit or divesting and then moving the headquarters.

But come on, throughout all of this period, Miles, the top people still always said safety was paramount. So square that disconnect for me.

O'BRIEN: Yes, that is -- you know, safety and profits. In the short term. They seem to be at odds, right? If you're worried about a quarterly report,

and maybe you want to streamline a process or you want to eliminate one aspect of your production and outsource it, it might seem like the right

thing to do.

But in the long run, it's always worth it to invest in safety. Look at what Boeing is enduring right now. Its best customers, Alaska Airlines and

United, the CEOs, in a remarkable public statement, are being very critical of the airliner manufacturer. That's highly unusual.

So the long term play, safety always pays off. And certainly, we're just talking about dollars here. Ultimately, we are talking about people's lives

and safety should always be uppermost because aviation, as you well know, Richard is unforgiving of mistakes.

QUEST: Right. But where do you think that culture went off the rails?

O'BRIEN: You know, a lot of people talk about that merger in 1997 with McDonnell Douglas. You had a company, Boeing, that was the gold standard.

Engineer-run, Seattle based, they bring in McDonnell Douglas, which had a civilian airliner operation, which was, you know, practically gone at that

point and a real push to drive shareholder value.

When people in charge don't fully understand the process at the root of what they're managing, you end up with trouble like that, and I think that

disconnect is important to note.

QUEST: So the CEO, Calhoun said and this, I think, goes to the heart of it, Miles, he said this week, "We fly safe planes. We don't put planes in the

air we don't have a hundred percent confidence in." I don't even know how he has, I guess, the phrase is "chutzpah." I don't even know how he has the

chutzpah to say something like that, because he said it after crash number one. He said it after crush number two. He said it again and again. It's

simply not the case.

O'BRIEN: Yes, the virtue signaling does wear thin, doesn't it? And at a certain point, you have to wonder if there are any real actions, which are

following the rhetoric.

And let's not forget, Richard, we do have a regulatory system that is not working well. The term is regulatory capture.

In this case, what you have are, instead of FAA inspectors on those factory floors in Renton, Washington, you have Boeing employees serving as their

designees.

Well, I think we all can agree there's a potential there for a conflict of interest, right? We need more boots on the ground in these factory floors

and that's a matter for Congress to take up.

QUEST: Now, looking to the future. So the Max will get back in the air and people will forget about it, they always do. But Boeing still has the 777X

that it has got to get done. It's still woefully short in the midrange, and says there's no midrange, midsize, I beg your pardon, plane coming along

and it is losing ground, left, right and center. So what does it do?

O'BRIEN: Well, you know, it's interesting, we have this duopoly of corporations that make these big airliners, Airbus and Boeing.

QUEST: Right.

O'BRIEN: You have to wonder, Richard, is the free market going to fill this gap? Is Bombardier watching this closely? Is Embraer in Brazil watch this

closely? And perhaps more ominously for the geopolitical (AUDIO GAP) build airliners, they're not a -- they are only domestic Chinese products right

now, but could this void be filled by another player?

You have to wonder if Boeing has squandered its reputation? Both of these might be -- the duopoly have plenty of orders, and there is plenty of

demand. Building the engines is another matter, but we could get -- we could digress on that, too.

QUEST: We'll have to leave the engines to another day because that's a whole other set of problems. I'm grateful to you.

O'BRIEN: It is.

QUEST: Thank you.

O'BRIEN: A pleasure, Richard.

QUEST: Thank you.

I'll just clarify, what Miles was talking -- in a moment.

[15:25:08]

Just let me clarify, it paused, the screen paused just as he said the crucial bit. I'm sure you got the gist of it. But he was just about to say

the other player is China with the Comac plane, which it's just brought in to introduce to see. And so the whole question of China being involved in

that so far, of course, no Western airline has bought the plane, but that's the point that Miles will make.

Sod's law, isn't it? The screen freezes at exactly the moment he says the important bit.

As we continue tonight, QUEST MEANS BUSINESS, there's a lot more. We'll go and talk about the alleged remarks from the Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin

Netanyahu. Qatari diplomats are -- well, I'll tell you what? The diplomatic players will be no doubt, not pleased -- the hostage negotiations and how

that could be affected in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

QUEST: Hello, I'm Richard Quest. Still a lot more QUEST MEANS BUSINESS in a moment.

Qatar is responding after a leaked audio showed the Israeli Prime Minister calling the country problematic.

And the CEO of the luxury clothing brand, Percival, on whether celebrity endorsements are bringing in new customers.

We'll get to a whole lot only after the headlines, because this is CNN, and on this network, the news always comes first.

Donald Trump briefly testified in his own defense at his defamation trial in New York. The trial is determining how much he owes former magazine

columnist, E. Jean Carroll in damages, or whether he owes anything at all.

Donald Trump said he viewed her sexual assault allegation as false.

[15:30:16]

Trump's former trade adviser Peter Navarro has been sentenced to four months in prison and fined $950,000. He was convicted last year of defying

a congressional subpoena. Following the ruling, Navarro's legal team appealed the cases to the D.C. Circuit Court of Appeals.

Iranian state media say a large fire has broken out at a hospital in Tehran. The video shows fires engulfed the Gandhi Hospital. The patients

have been evacuated from the building and there were no initial reports of casualties. The cause is not known.

French farmers are calling for lower costs and an end to some of the government's environmental regulations. There are protesters in one town

who spread animal excrement on a supermarket. Of course, parts of the store's ceiling collapsed. Roadblocks are also continuing across the

country.

Qatar has accused the Benjamin Netanyahu of undermining mediation efforts in his country's war against Hamas. A leaked recording that aired on

Israeli television allegedly captured the prime minister calling the Gulf nation problematic.

Jeremy is with me in Tel Aviv. Well, let's get blunt about this. First question, did he say it or not?

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, it certainly sounds like his voice to me. The prime minister's office hasn't confirmed that this is

actually him on the recording. But when you listen to the comments, I mean, it does track with our understanding of Netanyahu. He says here that he

believes that Qatar's role has been problematic. He tells the hostage families, you notice that you haven't seen me thank Qatar in this. And then

he compares the country to the United Nations and the Red Cross, with whom the Israeli prime minister, of course, has had some beef with, to put it

lightly.

The Qataris slamming these comments, saying that it is unhelpful to the negotiations and suggesting that Netanyahu is undermining those talks.

But I think what's important to note here is that despite this diplomatic spat between Israel and Qatar, it does appear like there is some

significant momentum behind these hostage negotiations, and that's because we've just learned today that the CIA director, Bill Burns, has been

dispatched to Europe in the coming days to meet with his Israeli and Egyptian intelligence counterparts as well as the Qatari prime minister.

And that comes after Brett McGurk, another top advisor to President Biden, has been in Cairo and Doha this week, building up steam, building up

momentum for these hostage negotiations. The Qataris have made clear that both Israel and Hamas seem to be responding to various proposals very

quickly, suggesting the deepest and most significant level of engagement since that week-long truce that saw the release of dozens of hostages fell

apart.

So, it certainly seems like there's some significant momentum behind these talks, whether or not these two sides will actually be able to make a deal

remains to be seen.

QUEST: Right. But I guess -- I mean, Qatar would be the first to say, look, you know, whatever spat we've got with the P.M. of Israel over his

rude comments, they wouldn't let it get in the way.

DIAMOND: Yes. I mean, they haven't said that directly. What they've said and said, you know, they kind of felt the need to respond, I think, is the

most important thing. But beyond the rhetoric, I think it's more important, in my view, to look at the meetings that are actually happening.

And these meetings that are going to happen in Europe in the coming days are very, very significant. And it also comes, of course, in the context of

leaks of several proposals on the table, including the longest ever pause in the fighting that Israel has proposed, two months pause in the fighting.

We've also seen other details that they've put on the table in terms of allowing civilians to return to Northern Gaza, the withdrawal of Israeli

forces from main population centers. So, certainly a good amount of meat on the bone.

Of course, Hamas and Israel are still very far apart. Hamas has suggested that they want an end to the war altogether for the release of hostages.

So, a lot to still work out here, Richard.

QUEST: Thank you Jeremy Diamond in Tel Aviv, grateful, sir.

A trial in the state of Michigan is testing the limits of who can be held responsible for a mass shooting. The parents of Ethan Crumbley who shot and

killed four of his schoolmates are facing manslaughter charges. The prosecutors are hinging their case on the fact that the Crumbley's parents

bought him the gun he used in the shooting four days earlier. A teacher at the school testified describing her encounter with the gunman on that day.

[15:35:00]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You just described, you saw something in your peripheral vision, you looked up, you locked eyes.

MOLLY DARNELL, TEACHER, OXFORD HIGH SCHOOL: I locked eyes. He didn't hesitate.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, how long was that from the time you saw in your peripheral and then the gun was raised?

DARNELL: A second.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Okay.

DARNELL: If that -- I kind of jump and turn my body this way at the same time.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Okay. And for the record, you're motioning, turning your fingers to the right?

DARNELL: To the right. And I feel like my left shoulder moves back a bit and I feel a burn, like hot water, had stung me.

I texted my husband, I love you, active shooter, and then I started feeling blood dripping down my arm.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

QUEST: Harrowing. Jean Casarez is following the case for us. This is -- besides the harrowing nature of the case, it's the underlying legal issue

here, isn't it, the responsibility of the parents?

JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: This is precedent setting in this country. Never before have parents been charged with homicide. In other

words, the prosecutor's saying, you parents, you are responsible for the deaths of those four students because of your grossly negligent behavior

towards your son. It's involuntary manslaughter is what the charges are.

There were four deaths, so there're four counts of involuntary manslaughter. And both husband and wife are being tried, but Jennifer

Crumbley is going first, because, at the very last minute, it appears as though they've turned on each other. She and Jill has conversations with

saying, I blame my husband for all this happening. So, that will come in. Yes.

QUEST: Right. But the test is going to be here, isn't it, when the judge gives the instruction to the jury about what is legally culpable homicide

in this particular case, you know, the negligence or the level of wanton recklessness that they have had to reach to get to that standard. And that,

of course, not only will be a question of fact, but eventually will be a question of law.

CASAREZ: You are so right. It's going to come in the jury instructions. It's going to be their actual knowledge of what they knew, foreseeability,

what they foresaw.

Let me tell you that Ethan Crumbley, their son, did a lot of this in his bedroom with his door shut. He researched mass shootings. He wrote in his

journal that he wanted to be either a serial killer or a mass shooter. He was born that way. Nothing could stop him. He texted his friend of what he

was going to do.

There's a really big issue now because the psychiatrist in jail wrote notes that Ethan said once he got in jail, you know, I lied all the time. And he

said I lied to my friend when I texted him, saying that I told my dad I need mental help. And he told me I'd take a pill and suck it up, and my

mother laughed. That didn't happen. I was just lying.

So, the defense wants those psychiatric records because it's coming in, that he texted his friend, that his parents wouldn't help him.

QUEST: Thank you. Keep watching. We'll come back and talk more as it progresses. I'm grateful.

CASAREZ: Thank you.

QUEST: In a moment, a late night urban safari on the outskirts of Hong Kong, the astonishing creatures that emerge when the city goes to sleep.

And, you know, something in pinstripes maybe or, I say, now, now we're talking. Well, the CEO of the founder of the luxury men's brand Percival

will be with me. Why celebrities like Tom Holland, The Rock and Chris Evans are wearing his shirts, but more importantly, what difference does it make,

in a moment. Quest Means Business.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:40:00]

QUEST: The city of Hong Kong is home to a surprisingly diverse array of wildlife. Many of the creatures emerge after the sun goes down. Today on

Call to Earth, Kristie Lu Stout takes us on the night time safari with a wildlife photographer and the mission, connect people with nature.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KRISTIE LU STOUT, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Every night, Hong Kong's iconic skyline stars in its own show, a spectacle of lasers and steel in

one of the most densely populated places on Earth. Less than 20 kilometers away, another curtain opens, to reveal a natural world often forgotten in

the dark.

We're in Shing Mun Country Park. In the daytime, this is an area very popular for hikers, but at nighttime, that's when the creatures come out.

What are you hoping you will find tonight?

LAWRENCE HYLTON, NATURE PHOTOGRAPHER: I'm hoping to find a couple of snakes and any other aquatic creatures.

STOUT: Leading our nocturnal safari, Hong Kong British educator and photographer Lawrence Hylton.

In the darkness of night, Hilton has captured images of birds like this quizzical collared scops owl, insects like the Atlas moth, and snakes like

this white-lipped pit viper.

HYLTON: My favorite are snakes and spiders, however I try and go for anything that I can get my camera up against.

STOUT: Hylton says he photographs the animals as he encounters them, with minimal impact to them or the environment.

So, we're on our way to the stream?

HYLTON: Yes, we are.

STOUT: And looking for snakes along the way.

Wandering past water buffalo at rest, we encounter warty newts at play.

Oh, yes, right there, two of them.

A huntsman spider shows off its mysterious beauty as a monkey watches from above. It takes patience and a passion for every creature big and small.

HYLTON: Watch your step.

STOUT: Trekking in the dark is not easy. You have to watch your feet. And always keep your eyes open.

HYLTON: We have relatively pristine stream ways, which is quite rare for Hong Kong. Also, it's far away enough from civilization that wildlife can

live without too much disturbance from us.

STOUT: Hong Kong is home to an astonishing array of wildlife, with many creatures emerging only at night. Some 40 percent of the territory is

protected parkland. But here and around the world, poaching and urbanization are destroying safe havens.

BOSCO CHAN, DIRECTOR OF CONSERVATION, WWF-HK: We have lost on average almost 70 percent of our wildlife populations since the 1970s. And that by

itself tells you we are not doing too well protecting the planet globally.

STOUT: At the end of this century, it's estimated up to 33 million hectares of natural habitat will be lost as a result of urban development.

That's more than the size of the U.S. state of New Mexico.

Lawrence says his mission is to promote conservation through photography.

HYLTON: We have a lot of trekkers who visit this area and fear of snakes and fear that unknown makes people do silly things. And, hopefully, someday

in the future, everyone can just enjoy nature.

[15:45:02]

STOUT: During midnight, we spotted a rare, futsing wolf snake, non- venomous, nocturnal, and extremely rare in Hong Kong, bearing witness to the richness of nature in the backyard of a global metropolis.

Bye-bye.

Kristie Lu Stout, CNN, Hong Kong.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

QUEST: All in Hong Kong. I want to know what you're doing to answer the call. The hashtag is #calltoearth.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

QUEST: In the morning just to start the day. Oh, I love this song. Binnie Hale, 1937, A Nice Cup of Tea. And a story is well brewing in Britain over

a nice cup of tea. A chemist in the U.S. says she's discovered the way to make a perfect cup of tea. Apparently you just had a tiny bit of salt.

Now, it's caused quite a stir, Good Morning Britain even calling it a crime. The U.S. embassy in London is involved, they released a memo

assuring that salt in tea will never be U.S. policy and said Americans will continue to make tea the proper way in the microwave.

Now, I feel it's my journalist duty to try both versions. Olivia is with me to determine which is which is better. So, we're going to add salt to one

and we're going to add salt to one and a little drop of sugar to the other. But we're not testing to see which one I can taste but which one I prefer.

So, go ahead put salt in, a little drop of salt in one and a little bit of sugar in the other. Give them a quick stir. Don't tell me which is which

and we will taste and see which I prefer.

Are we ready? I don't know which is which. All right here we go.

I don't know. I would say that's the salt, that's the sugar, but is this the sugar or the salt?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That's the salt.

QUEST: That's the salt? It's not as bad as I thought it was going to be. Oh well, it just shows you, it could have been a lot worse.

[15:50:00]

As we continue tonight, LVMH says its revenue soared to a new record last year thanks to resilient luxury demand. The company reported results after

the close in Paris. It says Q4 sales grew 10 percent. The group's high-end fashion, perfume, cosmetics and jewelry drove much of the growth.

The menswear brand Percival is basking in the resurgence of upscale shopping. The London-based designer has built its name on unique lines and

collaborations, like this one inspired by the show Seinfeld.

The brand has ratcheted up demand through an exclusive items and tiered loyalties. It seems to be working. Chris Evans, Tom Holland, Dwayne

Johnson, Justin Bieber have all been spotted wearing it.

Chris Gove is the founder and creative director of Percival Menswear. He joins me now, he's with me in London.

And how important is the whole celebrity aspect, putting a celebrity in the clothes? Does it make much of a difference?

CHRIS GROVE, FOUNDER AND CREATIVE DIRECTOR, PERCIVAL MENSWEAR: Yes. I think we've seen recently when as the economy tightens and people's wallets

get a bit smaller, that they're looking for more validation points to guide them towards a purchase that they really like. We feel just like

authenticity in a brand is really starting to drive conversion. And with women's wear, you used to see influencers have a one-click purchase effect

to their audience, and now we're starting to see the same with men's.

I think since post-COVID, the casualization of the office, there's a bit more space for men. I know Richard, you look great in a suit there with a

tie. But for more sort of smart casual options, and we find that that's been spurred by the Hollywood elite who would classically on the red carpet

be wearing tuxedo, suit and ties, and with the placard of events they have to do, they want a nice little knit (ph).

QUEST: But you'll agree there's a fine line, isn't there, between the avant-garde, you know, the red carpet that's a bit weird, and actually

coming up with something that people sort of say, well, that's rather nice, I wouldn't mind wearing that on my holidays myself, does it? And it's

getting that balance right, particularly in the post-pandemic world. I think that might stay here with me.

GROVE: Yes, well that would look great on you. You've got good shoulders Richard, that's why you need a nice bit to drape over yourself.

QUEST: Apparently I've got a droop on one shoulder, according to one tailor some years ago.

GROVE: You're asymmetrical.

QUEST: Well that's one word for it. Right, anyway, back to your clothing, are you seeing men willing to spend more?

GROVE: Yes, we are. I think we're seeing a longer consideration time. I think men before would purchase more with more volatility, a bit more

erratically. But now, I think because of the economy, we're seeing more considered purchases.

And so, really, as a brand, we do find, for example, the Hollywood elite, the A-listers, they validate the purchase more. And so it's no longer --

QUEST: I mean, I agree with you because the research shows it, but isn't that an extraordinary concept? We are validated because somebody famous on

a movie wears it?

GROVE: But I think that's existed forever. Look at gods, kings, whatever. Now, the modern version of that is the celebrity. And I think when Chris

Evans, for example, I think it was the premiere of maybe Buzz Lightyear. He wore one of our knits, that one on the left there. And at the time, he was

voted Sexiest Man Alive by G.Q.. And I think a lot of guys out there just - - they cling to these validation points.

But, crucially, it's a great looking knit. And so I think a lot of people are very comfortable just wearing navy or just wearing a suit. So, you

know, it pushes them.

QUEST: The other issue, of course, is the authenticity. You've got to be very careful with celebrities. That's actually -- you know, they do have to

aspire to the brand. They do have to aspire to your values. It can't be because you've paid them to wear it, if you do, or whatever. There has to

be a reason. Otherwise, it's just weird.

GROVE: Yes. We were a small brand, so I don't have the budget to pay for these guys. These guys would cost half a million. And so that's what's

amazing to me. It's just organic. And so to wake up and the Instagram is going crazy because one of them has worn it.

It's crucially down to their stylists. There's two, Ilaria Urbinati and Warren Alfie Baker, who just like the brand and they've brought it to the

celebs and styled them in it for us. And that just happened organically. So, it's thanks to them, initially.

QUEST: So, what will we -- what was your planning for the year ahead? Bearing in mind, pandemic is over but we are going back to work, we are in

the office, working from home is not the panacea we thought it was. So, what do we want to wear?

GROVE: I think you want to find a balance of not dressing like a teenager, but I think a suit can be reserved for special occasions, maybe

presentations.

[15:55:00]

I find the finance world, the news world is still very suit-oriented and that's totally fine.

But we see a whole plethora of industries now that are casualized and I think things like the linen quarter-lined suit you see there, a little nice

Riviera knit as a nod to patch something a little bit more playful, crochet trending, really mixing up a jean with a smart top. Some people are even

going loafer with a jogging bottom, and all of that world is now accessible for men to explore.

QUEST: Loafers and jogging bottom. The big question of the day, sir, is much more prescient. Tea with salt supposedly better than tea -- would you

drink tea with salt?

GROVE: I'm going to go with salt because I'm not a sweet man.

QUEST: There's an answer to that somewhere. All right, I'm grateful to you, sir. Thank you very much for joining us.

GROVE: Thank you, Richard.

QUEST: No doubt, we'll get me into one of your suits before Christmas. We'll take a profitable moment after the break. Quest Means Business,

delighted you joined us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

QUEST: Binnie Hale -- tonight's profitable moment, Binnie Hale did the song, A Nice Cup of Tea, in the 1930s. In the 1940s, George Orwell wrote A

Nice Cup of Tea, and apparently the 11 stages for making a nice cup of tea.

And now the professor who says, actually, the way to do it is to add some salt. Well, you can imagine the Ferrara (ph) that this has caused. Putting

salt in tea, it's even has got the U.S. embassy on about it.

Well, look, here's the point. I am sure that the professor is right, that if you ask people which they prefer, they probably would go for the salt.

And there's probably a chemical reaction. And you know the old saying, if you don't know what it's in it, you can still enjoy it, if you see what I

mean. Just because you know it's got salt, it makes you go a bit, ugh, but if you don't know.

So, all in all, I'm prepared to give it the benefit of the doubt. I gave up sugar in tea some years ago, and I'm quite happy without sugar.

Now, this is not a bad cup of tea with a bit of salt in, but no, no, no, no, no, no, sorry. I'm sorry, professor, I tried it, but I do think a

regular cup of tea is the best. I don't know what we make of all of this other than that wonderful phrase, A Nice Cup of Tea.

[16:00:03]

It just means life is okay.

And that's QUEST MEANS BUSINESS for tonight. I'm Richard Quest in London. Whatever you're up to the hours ahead, have a nice cup of tea and a

profitable one at that.

END