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Quest Means Business

Turbulence Injures 12 Aboard Qatar Airways Flight; Demonstrators Protest Against Over Tourism In Spain; Netanyahu: Deadly Israeli Strike On Rafah A Tragic Mistake; Deadly Storms Leave Trail Of Destruction Across Four U.S. State; Candidates, Voters Prepare For Wednesday's Election; Ruling RNC Party Has Strong Support But Faces Challengers. Aired 4-4:45p ET

Aired May 27, 2024 - 16:00   ET



RICHARD QUEST, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST: It is one of those days, the US markets were closed and European markets finished a little bit higher,

though getting direction from themselves rather than anywhere else. The closing numbers in Europe and the UK is also closed. Its bank holiday in

the United States and the United Kingdom.

So the markets' movements are small and there's not really much to say, you can see the numbers on the screen. The events of the day are very busy and

that, we do need to give to your attention.

"It was the worst 15 seconds of my life," says a passenger who is describing turbulence on board the Qatar Airways flight that sent travelers

and crew to a hospital. The second such incident in aviation in a week.

The Carnival Cruise line chief executive says cruise lines are an easy target for cities trying to tackle over tourism.

Ahead of this week's elections in South Africa, we asked why their economy is sliding backwards despite all the money that is being poured in.

We are live from New York, Monday, May 27th. Happy Memorial Day. You can wear white shoes in the Hamptons I am told. I am Richard Quest, I haven't

got any white shoes. I mean business.

Good evening.

We begin today with concerns about flight safety after a dozen people were hurt on a Qatar Airways flight that flew into some turbulence.

Emergency responders met the Boeing 787 when it arrived as scheduled in Dublin. The airport says the incident took place over Turkey. Six

passengers and six crew members were hurt. It follows the Singapore Airlines flight, which hit severe turbulence with more than a hundred

people hurt and one passenger, of course, died as a result.

Passengers on the Qatar flight described the fear that they felt when the turbulence.


PHILOMENA PRENDERGAST, QATAR AIRWAYS PASSENGER: We had we had our seatbelts on just from watching the episode that happened last week. It was just --

it was there in your mind. It was so scary at the time. You just don't know, is this safe or not, like -- but the staff were amazing and like to

actually get up and have to look after us.

And they are going around with bandages on their hands and bloodied faces like, and they have to serve us as well.


QUEST: Airlines are rethinking the safety policies in the light of such episodes. Singapore has announced measures to protect the crew. Flight

attendants will suspend meal and hot beverage service when the seatbelt sign is on. The cabin crew will also secure loose items and return to their


Sara Nelson is with me. She is the international president of the Association of Flight Attendants, the AFA. Whenever we have these issues,

Sara, you're the person we need to speak to. You are joining me from Washington.


QUEST: Now, look Sara. I can see why Singapore has done what it has done, but it is not practical.

You have already got carts out, you've got meals on trays at people's seats. The galley is already a disaster area from -- as they prepare food.

Now unless it is really bad turbulence, you can't every time the seatbelt sign goes on start tidying up and sitting down.

NELSON: Well look, flight attendants are used to going out in mild chop, but frankly, we are given a briefing before the flight from the pilots and

many times they will instruct us to stay down low longer than would normally be planned before we would begin that service because you're

right, once you get those carts out, some of those carts, the beverage cards or 300 pounds and they can be thrown to the ceiling just like a

person can be, so that can be quite dangerous for everyone around them, including the hot coffee and everything else that's on it.

You are for correct that it is not always practical to have everything buckled up, but what we do tell passengers is that when you are in your

seat, whether the seatbelt sign is on or not, keep that seatbelt fastened.

QUEST: Why do you think we don't? Is it just the arrogance of the frequent flyer -- ah, it can't happen to me. I know this plane backwards.

NELSON: Well, you're telling on yourself a little bit there, Richard. You are with us in the air quite a lot.

But I think people become very comfortable when these events don't happen, they forget the dangers that can take place. It was very interesting the

lead-in to this interview with the interviews with those passengers saying that they had their seatbelts on and they were mindful of that because of

what had happened on Singapore Airlines just the week earlier.


And so when people are reminded that this can be a quite dangerous phase, if you're not following the rules, if you're not putting those seatbelts

on, if you don't have everything secured, then people usually follow that.

But you can become quite complacent when you're used to flying all the time, used to things being quite smooth up there miles above the Earth and

feeling very confident in that.

QUEST: Well, now that takes me to another point. I was going to say the lazy pilot, but let's give them the benefit of the doubt, the overly

cautious pilot that puts the seatbelt sign on, you jiggle about in the air for 20 minutes and the seatbelt sign doesn't go off for the next two hours.

All they're doing is devaluing the seatbelt sign.

NELSON: So I think that it is very important that there is good communication all the time. As you know, when there is a delay and you have

crew communicating with the passengers, then people tend to be -- tend to stick with the crew, tend to stick with the airline.

In fact, there was a situation recently where an entire airline applauded when the pilot canceled the flight because he said he had been keeping them

up-to-date with the safety concerns and he ultimately said he didn't think it was safe.

You are absolutely correct. You have to have that constant communication between the crew, also between the passengers so that people understand why

the rules are in place and when they need to be changed, and when you need to follow those instructions.

QUEST: Two other areas I just wanted to touch on, if I may. There is the story -- well, first of all, how close are you do you think to getting

contract flight attendants united, and others. I mean are confident?

NELSON: We better be very close. There are contract negotiations going on across the industry in the United States. They have been delayed. They were

essentially delayed because of COVID and then other delays.

As the airlines delay those contract negotiations because there is never an expiration date on those contracts, they are continuing to get labor for

cheaper than they should really be paying for.

So it is becoming quite drastic and there are flight attendants who are living in their cars and who are trying to make ends meet and it doesn't

matter if you are on the lowest end of the pay scale or the highest end of the scale, the cost of living has gone up exponentially over the past

several years.

QUEST: Right, which is very low according to those figures that we saw from American. Many of us were quite surprised, even allowing for flying

benefits and hourly rates.

NELSON: That's right. And so these are going to be record contracts. The airlines are not eager to put those in place, but we are talking about

double-digit raises. We are talking about getting paid for the time that you're actually boarding the passengers, which has not been the typical way

of doing things.

And we are talking about getting some of the time back for flight attendant, just like other workers all around the world who have given so

much of their own productivity to the profits of these companies without getting a real return for that pay or the ability to control our own lives.

QUEST: I've got to ask you about Bette Nash, the longest serving flight attendant who passed away at 88. The rest of the world looks at sort of the

older flight attendants that the US has because of the nondiscriminatory rules in there with something -- I don't know whether its amazement or

horror, I can't really quite work out when you hear, but Betty Nash, who you may or may not have met, I've certainly met the number one and number

two at United over the years when I've been flying with them.

Yet, they are getting on in years, poor Bette Nash.

NELSON: Well, I will tell you what. Bette Nash is an example of the flight attendants who fought through incredible discrimination to make this a job

that we could turn into a career, a job that we could be proud of.

She is an example of going to recurrent training every single year and being able to perform the job perfectly well into her 80s, and that is an

example of what we fought through with that age discrimination.

If you can still do the job, there shouldn't be discrimination in that work and there are any flight attendants who were 30 and 40 years on the job who

trained me when I first started flying and they were extraordinary.

Just because flight attendants become older does not become the main -- they become less able to do their job. In fact, sometimes they are the very

best and the best teachers of other flight attendants who are trying to make this a new career.

So kudos to her and the example that she gave to all of us.

QUEST: I would put it as when you're flying over the Pacific down to Australia or West Coast on a 16-hour flight, you want somebody who knows

that you want a cup of tea and a biscuit, and is not going to bother -- you know, know that's who you want, somebody who recognizes you.

Sara, lovely to talk to you, as always. Thank you. I wish you well. Thank you.


The incidents of severe turbulence are threatening to grow. A recent study found that severe clear air turbulence, a CAT as it is known, increased by

55 percent over the past four years. The authors wrote, climate change is likely behind that problem and could make it worse in the years ahead.

Chad Myers is at our CNN Weather Center.

First of all, let's just recap in terms of Qatar Airways, what was this the sort of -- over Turkey that sent everything a bit strange. It was Doha to


And secondly, overall, are we seeing more turbulence?

CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Yes on clear air turbulence, but the last two events from Singapore over here, and Qatar those were not clear air

events. They were convection.

They were storms that the pilots couldn't see because the radar didn't show up rain, because it wasn't raining yet. These storms were violently

rotating up into the air between 20,000 and 50,000 feet, Richard in just 10 minutes.

So it wasn't raining because there was no rain to fall out. All the air was going up, while on the outside of that up, you just can't keep going, it

has to go down and so they got into this clear air or I am going to call it clear radar turbulence, which may be new term that we start here because

they didn't see the storm on their screen because it wasn't there yet.

So yes, rapid ascent then a rapid fall and that's exactly what we would expect around a big thunderstorm. Thunderstorms weren't even there yet. We

may not have to use radar anymore. We may have to go to something else called visible satellite, and this would be ground base where

meteorologists would be staring at the screen, waiting for thunderstorms that are already going up, but not raining yet, that could be part of the

problem or part of the solution. And then the pilots could fly farther around this rapidly rising air and miss the rapidly descending air.

I heard you talk about this earlier, so I want to get to it about --

QUEST: Yes, I do want to interrupt you --

MYERS: Go ahead.

QUEST: I just want to throw in a quick question which is related to this to what you're going to show us.

What are the latest developments. If you've got ATC, you've got your meter, you've got your regional weather offices. You've got your radars. What are

the latest things that the airlines and aviation is doing?

MYERS: High resolution visible satellite at one minute intervals because right now in the satellite that I have behind me was a 20-minute interval.

That was way too long of an interval when you actually got the image to, when you could warn the pilot.

Now most people don't understand that these planes fly in lines. They are in lanes. So if there is a PIREP, if there is a Pilot Reporting, this storm

or bumps ahead of you, the pilot behind 20 minutes already knows it is there because it was reported.

This had no -- both of them -- had no reports because it wasn't there yet. So with this visible satellite, a lot better than this one, you can see it,

you can see that cell right there. The one that they flew through, but it is not really the answer because you have to have something more immediate,

more ground truth every minute, maybe even every three minutes, because these storms go up so quickly.

I heard you talked earlier about don't sit in the back of the plane if you don't have to because of the vertical stabilizer and this is part of the

turbulence. You kind of get the side-to-side and the shaking back in the back. But yes, we do know that this clear air turbulence is on the way up,

mainly over North America, mainly over parts of the Atlantic, a little bit less down across parts of the south here along the equator.

Because when we start to see and start to blame climate change on this, it is all about the increased turbulence and the increased jet stream

instability. Clear air turbulence is when you're flying and there is nothing.

You're looking out the window and there is not a cloud in the sky, and all of a sudden the plane bounces. That's clear air turbulence.

But when you hit convection, when you hit a thunderstorm going up and down, that's when it is very, very violent and this is what happened in the last

two instances.

QUEST: Chad Myers, I am grateful, sir. As always, thank you. You've made it very clear. Thank you.

Now to some live pictures. Take a look. It is a familiar sight in New York and major coastal cities around the world.

Yes, on the west side of Manhattan, it is a cruise ship docked in the Hudson River. Nothing incredibly remarkable about that you might be saying,

but around the world, there are not always welcome guest, these cruise ships.


On the Spanish island of Mallorca, locals have demonstrated against over tourism over the weekend. Other cities such as Venice have imposed levies

on tourist. Their first target is often the cruise ship passengers.

So I spoke to the chief executive of the world's largest cruise operator, Carnival. He told me that the cruise ships are not the real problem.


JOSH WEINSTEIN, CEO, CARNIVAL: If anything, 2020 really taught us the value of the partnerships that we have with our destination communities and who

really want to partner with us and there are some communities that might not want to. They have issues with over tourism.

We are a fairly easy target when it comes to cruising, because although we are a tiny piece of each of those markets, be it Amsterdam, be it Venice,

when we come in, we come in big and so it is an easy bulls-eye.

I can assure you, even with banning bruises in Amsterdam, Amsterdam is according to them, struggling mightily with what they consider over


QUEST: Do you think on a philosophical point here-- do you think as an industry, we missed the opportunity post-pandemic for our control-alt-

delete. In other words, a reset.

We came out of the pandemic and frankly, there were no great initiatives to deal with over tourism, whether it be land-based, sea-based, any-base.

We missed that chance.

WEINSTEIN: From our perspective, we have dialogue all the time with our destination community. We understand that we need to do our part across a

spectrum of sustainability and sustainable tourism is one of them. So, I don't think it is as clear cut as that. As matter of fact, we come to

arrangements with destinations about how we can make sure we are being thoughtful for their needs.

We can adjust itineraries. We can adjust the number of calls we make in a particular day, so we do work hard to partner with people to do the right


QUEST: The largest cruise ship in the world and when you see it, it is a behemoth. Is this the future? These very large ships with seven, eight, ten

thousand people on board?

WEINSTEIN: We've been sailing some of our ships in our fleet. We've got nine that can accommodate upwards, getting close to 6,800 guests. So that's

not something that's particularly new for us.

You know, I would say a couple of things. One, if you've never been on any of our cruise, what's remarkable about our ships is, it doesn't feel

crowded because the ships are so big. There are so many different experiences in places you can be on that it is a really wonderful


Now, it doesn't mean it is for everyone, but that's why we've got nine brands. We've got different experiences. We've got ships that hold 250


QUEST: The Queen Anne sailing.

Cunard is a bit of an -- it is a sort of -- it is an anomaly in a sense in the Carnival firmament, isn't it? Because you've got it, you protect it

very much as its own bit with its own history, its own tradition. And now of course, you've just added another Queen for the Atlantic.

WEINSTEIN: Yes, we are ecstatic to welcome Queen Anne. That will be over in your hometown of Liverpool in less than two weeks to officially welcome her

with the name and you know, I had the opportunity to live in England and run the UK brands, which is P&O Cruises and Cunard for three years and I

can tell you the Cunard is special.

We have the only transatlantic ocean liner in the world with Queen Mary II. We've got over 175 years of tradition and we do want to preserve and

protect them because it is a very special brand.

QUEST: Finally, to yourself, I suppose -- you know, I was thinking about this as I was having a cup of tea. The nastiest question, I suppose one

asks is look, Josh, when all is said and done, there are those people who say you can never have cruise ships that are really sustainable.

Oh, you can dress it up and you can make the numbers and you can do this, that and the other. But the fact is, you've got a bloody big thing of metal

sailing round, belching out, thousands of people, creating this, that and the other, and it just can't be done.

WEINSTEIN: Well for that, let me give you -- let me start with this particular. We keep in absolute terms, our greenhouse gas emissions in

2011, okay. We are now over 30 percent larger as a corporation than 2011, and we are emitting in absolute terms 10 percent less greenhouse gas



QUEST: That is the CEO of Carnival.

Still to come, you and I together, a deadly airstrike that hits Rafah. Details on the attack on a camp for displaced Palestinian.

Also, the mounting pressure on Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.



QUEST: A tragic mistake. That's how Israel's Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is describing the airstrike on a camp for displaced Palestinians

in Rafah, which the Gaza Health Ministry says killed at least 45 people. Many of them women, children.


BENJAMIN NETANYAHU, ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER (through translator): In Rafah, we already evacuated about one million noncombatant residents, and despite

our utmost effort not to harm noncombatants, something unfortunately went tragically wrong.

We are investigating the incident and we reach conclusions, because this is our policy.


QUEST: French President Emmanuel Macron said he was outraged by the strike only days after he welcomed the foreign ministers of Qatar, Egypt, Jordan,

and Saudi to Paris for talks on the region in Gaza.

CNN's Jeremy Diamond has more. And a warning, some of the footage quite simply, it is difficult to watch.


JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Their blood-curdling screams tell the story of the unfolding horror more than words ever could.

But, it is only as bodies are pulled out of the inferno that the scale of this attack becomes clear.

At least 45 people were killed after an Israeli airstrike targeted this camp for displaced Palestinians in Western Rafah, according to the

Palestinian Ministry of Health.

Plastic tarps engulfed in flames, sheet metal walls crushed by the blast, a block of makeshift shelters flattened in an instance.

The Israeli military says the strike killed two senior Hamas militants who commanded Hamas' West Bank operations, Yassin Rabia and Khaled Nagar.

In a rare move, the Israeli military's top lawyer launching an investigation into the strike, saying civilian casualties had not been

expected. "It was assessed that there would be no expected harm to uninvolved civilians. The IDF regrets any harm to uninvolved civilians

during combat."

Mohammed Abu Ataiwi (ph) is one of those civilians, so badly burned that he cannot even open his eyes. But, there are so many more. So many children

writhing in pain. And then, there are the parents desperate to save babies whose cries have been silenced, perhaps forever.


For those who survived, whatever thin sense of safety they still had has now been completely shattered.

(RANIN speaking in foreign language.)

DIAMOND (voice over): "We were sitting and suddenly there was a big blast and fire. People started screaming," Ranin (ph) says, describing how they

spent the whole night pulling charred bodies out of the embers.

While hundreds of thousands have fled Eastern Rafah after the military ordered its evacuation, many others like this man displaced from Central

Gaza came here to Western Rafah, told the area would be safe.

And then there are the mourners.

(UNIDENTIFIED MALE speaking in foreign language.)

DIAMOND (voice over): "The occupation army is a liar. There is no security in Gaza," says this man, whose brother was killed in the strike. "Here he

is with his wife. They were martyred. They are gone."

For one man, a brother, for another, his sister.

(UNIDENTIFIED MALE speaking in foreign language.)

DIAMOND (voice over): "She was the only one," he says, "She was the only one and she is gone."

Jeremy Diamond, CNN, Jerusalem.


QUEST: More than 2,000 people are now feared to have been buried alive by a huge landslide in Papua New Guinea over the weekend.

The survivors have been digging with hand tools in an attempt to find their loved ones.

The number of people who died is far worse than initial estimates.

As CNN's Ivan Watson explains.


IVAN WATSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice over): An outpouring of grief in a village community, where the government says more

than 2,000 residents could be trapped under deep rock. Many of the people in these highland villages buried as they slept when a massive landslide

hit overnight Friday.

Satellite pictures from before and after show the sheer size of the landslide. The rubble is so deep that few victims have been recovered.

EVID KAMBU, LANDSLIDE SURVIVOR (through translator): I have 18 of my family members buried under the debris and the soil that I'm standing on, and a

lot more family members in the village I cannot count. I am the landowner here. Thank you to all those who came to help us. But, I cannot retrieve

the bodies. So, I'm standing here helplessly.

WATSON (voice over): Yambali village in Enga Province is an extremely remote part of Papua New Guinea. Help has been slow to arrive through

mountainous terrain thick with jungle, the terrain unstable even for rescue workers. Without heavy lift equipment, desperate people have done what they


SERHAN AKTOPRAK, IOM CHIEF OF MISSION, PAPUA NEW GUINEA: They are using -- digging sticks, spades, agricultural forks, and their hands of course.

WATSON (voice over): A small amount of aid has arrived but the landslide has destroyed the main road into the village, and aid workers say violence

between local tribes has made the journey even more dangerous.

Over the weekend, eight people were killed, and houses and shops burned along the road to the disaster site.

JUSTINE MCMAHON, COUNTRY DIRECTOR, CARE INTERNATIONAL: An evacuation area has been established. Two emergency medical centers have also been

established. And the defense force plans to bring in heavy equipment tomorrow.

WATSON (voice over): Papua New Guinea has called for help as it comes to terms with the scale of the disaster. The United States and close neighbor,

Australia, have offered support.

But, in this stricken community, hope for rescue is dwindling with every passing hour.

Ivan Watson, CNN.


QUEST: At least 21 people have been killed across four US states following a wave of severe storms. Around 120 million people in total are under

severe warnings for weather on Monday.

The governor of Kentucky where this video of a tornado was taken on Sunday, has now issued a state of emergency.

One of the hardest hit areas though is Texas. CNN's Ed Lavandera reports from Texas.


ED LAVANDERA, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: The National Weather Service says the tornado that ripped through this subdivision, just near

the small city of Valley View, Texas in North Texas was an EF-2 with winds of 135 miles per hour, which explains just the devastating destruction you

see around us.

This is a subdivision where dozens of homes are just demolished. Emergency officials say seven people were killed here, four of those victims were


In fact, we spoke with the relative of one family that was just devastated by this. These cars and this debris that you see behind me. That is an area

where a mother and two of her children were found dead by the woman's brother-in-law.

Their home was catapulted more than a hundred yards and it landed here just to -- that's the remnants of what you see there and those victims were

found there just minutes after the storm blew through here.


And also, a hundred people were injured as well. There was a convenience store along Interstate 35, where more than a hundred people were scrambling

to get out of the storm's path, only to find themselves directly hit by the storm.

Those people had to be rescued. But right now, in what is becoming stifling heat, families are out here, trying to clean up the pieces. And what is

left of this debris field. And family simply just in some cases, just kind of stunned as to where exactly you begin to clean up after this. We've seen

people coming in with heavy equipment and just piling everything together as you see behind me here.

And right now, the biggest need that families here need is temporary shelter. So, the work is being done to get these people housed while they

rebuild. Also clothing because as you can see, everyone's belongings have just been strewn all over the place. The Red Cross officials say that the

storm system here in Texas, kind of cut a path of 150 to 250 miles along throughout North Texas.

So, the damage and the devastation very intense in places like this but also quite widespread as well. Back to you.

QUEST: Now some women in Japan say they've gone into massive debt after looking for male companion frequent so-called host clubs. We're going to

take a dark look at the dark side is described as the loneliness economy. We'll tell you about it next.



QUEST: South Africa's ruling party, the African National Congress, which has ruled the country since the ending of apartheid is under pressure ahead

of Wednesday's general election. The ANC has been in power since 1994. As the year Nelson Mandela was elected president. Over that time, corruption,

joblessness, electricity crises are now pushing voters away. CNN's David McKenzie reports from Soweto.


DAVID MCKENZIE, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): I.T. worker Mmeli Mbatha knows how to gin up a crowd. He's volunteered for the

ANC since he was just 15. But now it's crunch time.

MMELI MBATHA, ANC YOUTH LEAGUE: We want to show the support to the ANC, because ANC has been supporting us.

MCKENZIE (voice-over): The party of Nelson Mandela needs their voices, and it really needs their votes. 50 years in power, and the party that has

defined South African politics faces its strongest challenge yet.

MCKENZIE (on camera): This could be the most closely contested election since the dawn of South Africa's democracy, and many believe that the

ruling ANC could lose its majority but their supporters say don't count them out here.

MCKENZIE (voice-over): The ANC can fill stadiums, yes, but it also has a formidable ground game.

Spending vast sums of this campaign getting right into neighborhoods with senior leaders.

THULI GWALA, ANC SUPPORTER: Voting for ANC until now.

MCKENZIE (on camera): Why do you still want to vote for the ANC?

GWALA: I want to vote because my ANC who worked for me.

MCKENZIE (voice-over): Millions of South Africans, like Thuli Gwala depend on modest government social grants to survive. For decades, these grants

have been the party's trump card. But South Africans want more. Breathtaking unemployment, sustained electricity, blackouts, and stark

inequalities have left many feeling betrayed by the promises of the ANC.

Once loyal supporters are abandoning the ANC, even forming their own parties, they are more than 50 on the national ballot.

HERMAN MASHABA, LEADER, ACTIONSA PARTY: I have voted for the ANC twice. All these people here before, majority of them used to vote for the ANC. Look

at the ANC's electoral support ever year is going down.

MCKENZIE (voice-over): The ANC government has presided over huge allegations of corruption. And there is a very significant problem with

unemployment. Why should people this time vote for this party given that record?

FIKILE MBALULA, ANC SECRETARY-GENERAL: We are a party that has made strides in terms of renewal and fighting, the stigma, so to say, of being

associated with corruption.

MCKENZIE (on camera): Is it enough to win this election? Are you feeling confident?

MBALULA: The elections will be one on the basis of the work we do among our people. And as we -- you can see, we are not idly.

MCKENZIE (voice-over): Never idle, not during campaign season. But on Election Day, will voters be singing a different tune?

David McKenzie, CNN, Soweta, South Africa.


QUEST: Hannah Ziady is in London joins me now. The only problem with all of this. We've cleaned up the mess particularly with the president Ramaphosa

is he was there. He sat at the table. He took part in the decisions that were subsequently called into question.

HANNA ZIADY, CNN WRITER: Richard, that is right. And I think, you know, what you're referring to there is really the decade of state capture that

we saw under the former President Jacob Zuma, where corruption just exploded. And that's been really well documented in the independent

judicial commission of inquiry into what South Africans call state capture, which is really the capture of key government departments, state owned

companies, by private interests.

Ramaphosa was there, you right. I think many South Africans feel that he was still a better leader to kind of move the country forward. But you

heard it all there from David. Corruption has been rampant, joblessness is soaring, a third of South Africa's labor force is unemployed, and that just

entrenches inequality. And then the encrypting pockets, Richard.

QUEST: Right. So, what is it going to take for a black electorate in South Africa not to vote ANC?

ZIADY: Well, as you saw in that clip, there is deep loyalty to the ANC.


And I think we have to appreciate that this is the party of liberation under Nelson Mandela that liberated South Africa from the racist apartheid

government from white minority rule. And those loyalties ran deep, Richard, because for many black South Africans, life has got better in terms of what

it was like before 1984. But for I think, younger South Africans, there's clearly a feeling that we want more.

And, you know, some economists like to talk about a tale of two halves in South Africa that the first 15 years of democracy under Mandela and then

Thabo Mbeki. The economy was actually relatively well managed. Government debt fell, there was small budget surpluses, in some years. Economic growth

averaged around four percent a year. And then Jacob Zuma came to power in 2009 and corruption exploded.

And as we know, economic growth has been feeble ever since. And some of these challenges have not been met. The question is, as David raises, will

South Africans vote differently on Wednesday? We'll have to wait and see.

QUEST: Well, that's a valid point. The election is on Wednesday. We will look forward to the results. And I'm very grateful for you. Thank you.

Thank you very much. Indeed.

There's something you know, something delicious about elections I've always enjoyed them. Thank you very much, Hannah. I've always enjoyed elections.

We've got South Africa, you've got India, you've got the United Kingdom now going on July the 4th which is a strange date to go to the -- to the

country on but there we go. And over the next few months, we're going to see the people speak.

And anybody who doesn't believe in democracy, well, stick that in your pipe and smoke it. And so those of you who believe you vote don't doesn't count.

I don't really have much time for you. The reality is, over the next few weeks in countries like India, like South Africa, like the United Kingdom,

like the United States, we're going to see just what democracy means. And that's QUEST MEANS BUSINESS for tonight.

I'm Richard Quest. Delighted to be with you in New York. Whatever you're up to in the hours ahead, I hope it's profitable. Coming up next. We've got

World of Wonder. I'm in Paris.