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Quest Means Business

Boeing Starliner Lifts Off On First Crewed Voyage; Heat Dome Sends Temperatures Soaring In Southeast US; European Natural Gas Prices Swing On Norwegian Outage; At Least 10 People Injured In Attack On Northern Israel; New York Police Department Preparing To Revoke Donald Trump's Gun License; T.J. Maxx Retail Workers Begin Wearing Body Cameras. Aired 4-4:45p ET

Aired June 05, 2024 - 16:00   ET



JULIA CHATTERLEY, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST: Great celebrations there at the New York Stock Exchange, an optimism about future rate cuts. Canada, the

first central bank in the G7 to cut rates today, all helping push the Dow higher. The S&P 500 hitting a fresh record high. You could see it there,

and those are the markets and these other the main events.

A moment more than decade in the making: Boeing's Starliner spacecraft blasting off with NASA astronauts onboard for the first time ever.

Tensions are high on Israel's border with Lebanon. Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu says his country is ready for "intense action" to restore


And workers at T.J. Maxx stores are wearing body cameras to crack down on shoplifting.

Live from New York, it's Wednesday, June 5th. I'm Julia Chatterley, in for Richard Quest and this is QUEST MEANS BUSINESS.

Good evening.

Once again, tonight, a historic launch for Boeing and the private space industry.


CHATTERLEY: The company's Starliner capsule lifted off from Cape Canaveral and is now on its way to the International Space Station. It is due to dock

in around 20 hours from now.

This is the first time Boeing has taken astronauts into space. The launch comes after a decade of development, years of delays, and several last

minute cancellations.

Kristin Fisher is near the launch site in Cape Canaveral, Florida and she joins us now. Two, in fact, aborted missions, Kristin, and you've got the

sense that people were very cautiously optimistic today, right until the last moment before that launch. What was the atmosphere like pre-launch?

And then post the success?

KRISTIN FISHER, CNN SPACE AND DEFENSE CORRESPONDENT: You know, Julia, I think, a lot of people couldn't believe that it was actually happening,

right? There have been so many delays, these two recent scrubs. All quite common in in terms of the first crewed test flight of a new vehicle, scrubs

super common in spaceflight.

But still, there was a sense as we got down to under five-minute mark that, wow, like this thing is -- this thing is finally going to go. Big cheers

when it finally lifted off. And then everybody at NASA, the United Launch Alliance, and Boeing really breathing a big sigh of relief once those

astronauts were safely in orbit.

This is a big deal for NASA's commercial crew program. It is really the fulfillment of what they've been trying to do for a decade, which is

outsource the transportation of its astronauts to the International Space Station to private companies so that they can then focus more on bigger

missions like the Artemis Program, returning American astronauts to the moon for the first time since the Apollo Program.

So to now have two options, SpaceX and Boeing, two options for NASA astronauts to get into orbit, that kind of redundancy is something that

NASA has been working towards for a very long time.

Now, one caveat, Julia, I will say just because it was a successful launch, this mission still far from over they still have about another 11 days

until this mission is complete. They're going to be spending eight days up the International Space Station. They've still got to dock with the Space

Station and they still have to of course, return to Earth safely.

But so far everything is looking great. The two astronauts on board, Butch Wilmore, and Suni Williams, finally, getting to fly this thing. And for

Suni Williams, she was assigned to this mission back in 2015. So it has been nine years that she has been waiting to fly this bird in to space --


CHATTERLEY: Yes. What an incredible moment for them both, but for her specifically. Oh, boy, almost a decade to wait for this moment.

Kristin Fisher in Cape Canaveral, great to be there and great to have you with us. Thank you.

Now Boeing's launch, as Kristin was saying there opens a new chapter of competition in the private space industry. SpaceX has already carried

people into orbit 13 times and its latest rocket was just approved for a fourth test flight.

The two companies received nearly $7 billion from NASA to develop their spacecraft. Boeing, the established aerospace firm was originally expected

to lead the charge.

NASA Administrator Bill Nelson says turning to private industry was the right move for the agency.



BILL NELSON, NASA ADMINISTRATOR: Different from the old days, but we go with our commercial partners now and when we expand our fleet of

spacecraft, what we are doing is expanding our reach to the stars.


CHATTERLEY: Chris Hadfield is a former astronaut and the author of "The Defector" novels. He is also an adviser to SpaceX and Virgin Galactic.

Chris fantastic to have you with us.

I do want to talk about space competition and where this now takes us, but just firstly, give me your thoughts and observations and what it feels like

for these astronauts to be on this mission at this moment.

CHRIS HADFIELD, FORMER ASTRONAUT: Well, it is a wonderful feeling. They're super busy. Of course, they had to fly a rocket ship that's never been

flown before, so it is a huge risk and they and their families recognize just how large a risk that is.

So it is great to have that behind them. And now no one has ever flown this spaceship with people on board before either. So this is a big checkout of

a new spaceship, but touch wood, everything is working okay, so far.

As Kristin said, they are now doing a bunch of tests and things on their way in to try and doc tomorrow midday Eastern Time in the US, and then that

same vehicle, a week or 10 days from now has to safely bring them down through the atmosphere and just use the heat and friction from the air

three or four thousand degrees on the outside of the ship and they are landing out in the desert using parachute and airbags.

So they are by no means done yet, but the most danger per second is launch and both of them feel hugely relieved, proud, excited, keen about what is

going on next. But also, they both lived on the Space Station before for extended periods, so there is also a great feeling of sort of being back

home and it is going to feel great for them to see that little light of the Space Station get bigger and bigger and bigger, and then dock and go


CHATTERLEY: I now have both my hands firmly placed on a wooden desk in front of me though, and I encourage all our audience to also touch

something wood to your point, and I think you gave us the context there of the challenges even now and for the next few days that this mission faces.

Just to the point about competition there, just explain how important this is for Boeing. They do have the larger NASA contract, as I mentioned in the

introduction, they were expected to be the leader rather than SpaceX have the success that they've had, and I mean, they are four years behind SpaceX

in getting astronauts into space.

Talk to me about the competition that this represents. And also what this means for NASA to now have to sort of powerhouses that they can call upon

when necessary.

HADFIELD: Well, I think if you talk to the majority of the people at SpaceX or the majority of the people at Boeing, they'd say the competition is

mostly with themselves.

They've got a contract. They're trying to deliver and it is super hard to build a safe spaceship. If you want to build one that kills people

regularly, that's easy, but if you want to build one that has a real high probability of making it like the one did today, you have to be very


If you look back to the previous spaceships, it takes 10 years, mostly to build a human-rated spaceship. SpaceX got a bit of a head start because

they were already building their rocket and they had to integrate a capsule on top.

Traditionally, it takes about 10 -- the space shuttle, gosh, it was way late and delayed and all kinds of similar sort of processes. So that is all

normal -- is that there is more than one flight leaving the station.

I mean, if you went to the airport and there was just one airline or one airplane, then you really have your limitations. But now two different

companies, two different rockets and spaceships -- that just greatly improves the United States' capability to get their own people and stuff up

to the Space Station and back.

But it is also great for the two companies because they can maybe not just fly government astronauts, but they can fly commercial astronauts and

private astronauts. Other companies are building Space Stations, so it is still very new technology and therefore expensive. But this is a big step

towards making it safer, simpler, and therefore less expensive than it has been in the past.

So today is just a day of triumph. And I saw Elon and Gwynne Shotwell at SpaceX, they are both all full of congratulations to everybody at Boeing

for getting it done right today.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, I know it has taken the opportunity to point out that SpaceX has got its own launch of the super heavy starship rocket, of

course, on Thursday as well. So fingers crossed for that from their Starbase facility in Texas. I think that's the launch from there.

I mean, NASA to your point about the collapsing cost in particular, that the private sector involvement in this industry, particularly over the last

decade. I mean, NASA funded the development of both these two companies and Crew Dragon and Boeing Starliner to reduce the reliance on having to ask

Russia for seats to get to the International Space Station.

Can you put that into perspective for us as well? And what cost-saving and we try not to involve politics in this part in this sphere, but how much

easier it is have your own seats up there rather than having to ask anybody else, of any nation, quite frankly.


HADFIELD: Well, the entire sort of design of the International Space Station has been that each country, the 15 countries that are part of it,

they build all their equipment in their own country. So they get the economic financial benefit of that and then they launch it together to do

something that each country couldn't do alone.

And so, it is sort of along that model now, you don't have to pay another country to fly your astronauts up. You don't have to trade anything for it

when you have your own domestic capability. So that's just good for national business. It is a good but step.

And there is a third vehicle in development as well with a third American company, but the beautiful side product of that is, we are now creating and

advancing and developing technologies that didn't use to exist. It is kind of what NASA ought to be doing, and that is looking at what the future

should look like, trying to put it in the seed money to help companies then develop the technologies that then improve capability that is available to

everybody, nationally or internationally.

And if you look at SpaceX as kind of the front leader, they are the number one launch company in the world as a result of the technology that they've

developed and that NASA partially paid for.

So, it is a long, slow train getting there, but I mean, just this week China landed on the other side of the moon and took off. A vehicle from New

Zealand launched a rocket to space with NASA payload onboard, they launched today. And as you mentioned SpaceX is launching their huge new starship on

their fourth flight test tomorrow.

So this is in one week, so pretty amazing moment and I am really pleased for the success that took Suni and Butch safely to orbit today.

CHATTERLEY: Yes. And well keep our hands on touching wood just until we get them back down again. What a week. What an incredible week.

Chris, fantastic to chat with you. Thank you so much for your insight and your perspective. It has been an exciting day.

Chris Hadfield there, thank you so much.

HADFIELD: Thanks, Julia.

CHATTERLEY: Okay, May was the 12th straight month of record-setting heat for the planet. Bill Weir takes a look at the far-reaching consequences

many of us are already feeling. That's next.




A punishing heat dome in the Southwest United States is creating dangerous conditions for up to 17 million people. High temperatures is set to soar up

to 25 degrees Fahrenheit above their normal levels. And it is a global trend we are seeing.

May was the 12th straight month of record-setting temperatures.

Bill Weir looks at some of the consequences.


BILL WEIR, CNN CHIEF CLIMATE CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Across the American heartland came a conga line of devastating tornadoes, deadly

flooding from Brazil to Germany, a drought that has millions rationing water in Mexico City and temperatures close to 122 degrees in India, enough

to kill at least 33 poll workers on the same day in recent national elections.

All are snapshots from a planet overheated by human activity, where monthly heat records have been shattered for the last 12 months in a row.

WEIR (on camera): As somebody who has been studying sort of with intimate knowledge the climate crisis all of these years, what do you make of what's

happening around the world these days?

KIM COBB, DIRECTOR, INSTITUTE FOR ENVIRONMENT AND SOCIETY, BROWN UNIVERSITY: I mean, Bill, this is just a dizzying rate of change that we're

experiencing right now. But in the near future, 2023 will register as a normal year. Whereas, in fact, if you look at those graphs, all you can see

is a vertical line shooting upward from the very recent warmest years on record. So, really just a record smashing year in 2023.

ANTONIO GUTERRES, U.N. SECRETARY-GENERAL: Let me be very clear again. The phase out of fossil fuels is essential and inevitable. No amount of speed

or scare tactics will change that. Let's hope it doesn't come too late.

WEIR (voice over): While the head of the United Nations has been railing against polluters and petrostates for years, he is using this report to

plead with world leaders to cut dirty fuels faster than ever. To kick in more for unfair loss and damage in developing countries and to ban all

advertising from oil, gas and coal companies.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you could see the inside of your engine.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We at Chevron believe that nothing is more precious than life.

WEIR (on camera): What do you make of the secretary-general's decision to really take new steps, to call for an end to fossil fuel advertising on

television and radio, to treat those ads the way you would for tobacco products?

LIZ BENTLEY, CHIEF EXECUTIVE PROFESSOR, ROYAL METEOROLOGICAL SOCIETY: Any policies that we can introduce at national level or even international

agreements to actually change the way we rely on fossil fuels are important.

So, these actions, as you say, to treat fossil fuel adverts as if it would be, you know, we treat banning conversations around tobacco or at least

warning signs if you do smoke, these are the consequences. We need to get, I think, more savvy to do that around greenhouse gas emissions as well.

WEIR (voice over): To avoid the worst, scientists say global emissions must fall 9 percent a year until 2030. And while they still went up last year,

it was only by one percent, thanks to a boom in clean wind and sun power, a sign that humanity could finally be on the verge of bending the carbon


COBB: Yes, one percent is in the wrong direction, but it's getting close to zero and then it can start going into the negative territory.

So, in fact, we are predicted to have peak fossil fuel emissions within the next year or two, which is something I frankly never saw coming even five

years ago. So, that's real progress. And I think people need to really appreciate that.

WEIR (voice over): Bill Weir, CNN, New York.


CHATTERLEY: It has also been a volatile week for European gas prices after an outage at an offshore Norwegian platform. It disrupted their gas flow to

Britain, but the pipeline is due to return to service on Friday.

Now, you can see there how futures soared, only very quickly then to return back to earth. Energy set to play a major role in the European elections

coming up and another summer of record-breaking heat could make things worse, too.

Officials say droughts in Southern Europe pose a risk to energy production, transmission, and demand.

Paolo Gallo is the CEO of Italgas a gas and he joins us now.

Paolo, fantastic to have you with us.

I want to talk about just briefly what happened this week. We were just showing viewers there, the price spike that we saw and yet, I looked at

what the average gas storage level is at the moment in Europe and it is around 70 percent.


That must be --

PAOLO GALLO, CEO, ITALGAS: Even more. Even me.

CHATTERLEY: -- what, near record for this time of year, so why the nervousness? Help me understand.

GALLO: Well, I think that the gas market and the gas price is still very volatile and to me, the reason why we have seen such a surge of price is

more due to the speculation activity around that. The fact that we are going back to the normal demonstrate that, also because there is no fear

about any kind of storage.

Like you said, the average of European is above 70 percent. Italy for example, it is one of the largest country with the largest storage, we are

at around the 75 percent. That is quite unusual if we go back to the old days. So we should probably get by 90 percent, that is the target set by

the European Commission probably early summer. So we have very close.

So it is not understandable such a spike in the price unless you put some speculation below that.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, that is interesting. So you're going to hit the European targets well before the deadline that they are expecting you can do it.

GALLO: Absolutely.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, fantastic. Does that negate some of the concerns, very briefly about potential extreme temperatures, drought, extra use of air

conditioning too over the summer? The message to consumers is sort of don't worry about higher prices.

GALLO: Well, you know, I think I've seen the move, let me say, the point before about the climate change and what I am trying to say is that we need

to put in place every technology, every lever that we have in order to reach and to be able to reduce CO2 emission and I think for a price point

of view, I don't see significant problems over the summer time, unless there are some speculation around.

But to me, more important is that everybody, every company should focus out to decarbonize the consumption and we should use all the tools or

technology or innovation that we have available in order to get there.

CHATTERLEY: Okay, and that is what you're doing, so that the audience understands, you control gas infrastructure assets, but you're also

diversifying into water assets, too, I know with the hope on and the focus on making them far more efficient and reducing leakage in the same way that

you did with gas assets.

But what's fascinating to me about your business is how you're sort of digitizing, pivoting, and hoping to ensure that not just natural gas can be

used in some of this infrastructure and pipeline network, but bio methane, and hydrogen in the future. So that goes to your point about the renewable

capabilities, too.

How far our way are we from that kind of future where that is what you're predominantly distributing in Italy or Europe?

GALLO: Yes, you know, bio methane is a reality now, right? We don't wait -- we did we did not have to wait many years to have bio methane available.

There are -- just to give you an idea from 2018 to last year, the bio methane plant in Europe doubled. So, it is becoming now a reality.

The view that we have in Italy is that by 2030, bio methane will cover 10 percent of the need of the Italian in term of gas. So bio methane is

already a reality.

What we need to add, like you mentioned, we need to have a fully digitized network to be able to manage different kinds of gases. Hydrogen is

something that will be available probably by the end of the decade. I am talking about economic sustainability of the production of hydrogen and I

feel the hydrogen will play in the next decade a huge role, not only replacing of natural gas, but more even important as a vector to store the


I mean, there is a lot of debate about our to store the energy when there are many renewable going on. I don't think the battery is the only

solution, it is probably fine for residential use, but not for huge need.

The way to store the energy and to use these energy storage for balancing renewable and the demand of power is through the hydrogen. Hydrogen

produced after renewable. And then you need clever, smart, digital infrastructure to handle that.

CHATTERLEY: Very quickly Paolo, because I want to ask you about the European Central Bank and cutting rates and whether you think that their

macro-environment requires rates to be cut at this moment.

The bio methane, the 10 percent that you think in 2030 that you'll be providing two Italian customers. Would that be at the same price as the

natural gas equivalent?


GALLO: You know how of today, there are some subsidies to produce bio methane, that by 2030, we think it will be at the same level in term of

price as the natural gas.

Remember that is the product of a circular economy. So you don't only produce bio methane, you also capture the CO2 and that CO2 can be used for

food industry. You produce fertilizer and you solve for the waste problem.

So at the end of the day, if you put these elements into the full equation, at the end of the day, you will have a competitive price also for bio


We are not very far now. Imagine by seven years from now, six years from now, we will be absolutely competitive.

CHATTERLEY: Wow. I love these conversations. It gives me great hope when we report on the bad impacts and the negative impacts on them and what we are

seeing on the climate to have solutions like this discussed is pretty awesome.

Paolo, great to chat with you, sir. Thank you.

Paolo Gallo there.

GALLO: Thank you.

CHATTERLEY: Thank you.

GALLO: Thank you very much, Julia. Bye.

CHATTERLEY: Thank you. Still ahead, tensions surge along the border between Israel and Lebanon with a new strike causing significant injuries over the

past few hours. We've got all the details, next.


CHATTERLEY: Welcome back.

Two major developments from Northern Israel over the past few hours, at least 10 people have been injured after a Hezbollah attack from Lebanon.

That is according to Israeli authorities.


The IDF says there were several launches from across the border with no sirens sounded ahead of the attack. Tensions have already been sky high.

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has said his country is ready for, "intense action" to restore security in the border region, which has

seen months of tit for tat strikes.

Jeremy Diamond is in Jerusalem with the very latest for us. Jeremy, we've seen a back and forth for months that's raised significant fears I think of

a broader escalation. Do we have any sense of what the government means when they talk about intense action at this point?

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, well, certainly, the Israeli government has time and again kind of suggested the possibility of

all-out war with Hezbollah.

But the question now is what indeed could trigger such an escalation? And it's really unclear. You know, what is clear at the moment is that there is

renewed attention on the security situation in northern Israel on these clashes between the Israeli military and Hezbollah, which have really been

kind of kept at a low -- slow simmering level over the course of these last eight months. Kind of steady barrages of airstrikes by Israel in southern

Lebanon, sometimes creeping slightly further north, Hezbollah firing a drone and rocket attacks at Northern Israel.

But we have yet to see either side really employ the full arsenal that they have at their disposals, which would result in much more significant

devastation on both sides of the equation.

What is clear as well is that we've been witnessing, though, somewhat of an uptick in the size and scale of these attacks from both sides over the

course of the last week or so.

And today, this latest attack by Hezbollah, which appears to have been carried out via explosive drone, injuring at least 10 people in the

northern Israeli town of Hurfeish, a significant moment one that no doubt will provoke a strong Israeli response.

And earlier today, before this strike took place, we saw the Israeli prime minister in northern Israel where there have also been wildfires that were

sparked by some of this rocket fire from Hezbollah, vowing that Israel will carry out -- is, "prepared," I should say, to carry out very intense action

in the north, vowing that one way or another, the situation will be resolved.

And he's obviously talking there about resolving it either via diplomatic means, we know that there have been U.S. and French efforts to try and

resolve the situation diplomatically between Hezbollah and Israel.

But also, the alternative to that is military action. And that specter of a lot war between these two sides. And there is a sense that the clock is

very much ticking, it's just not clear what exactly would trigger such an escalation.

We do know, however, what could potentially de-escalate things. And that would certainly be a ceasefire agreement between Israel and Hamas in Gaza,

which would potentially offer a diplomatic opening for some resolution between Israel and Hezbollah, because Hezbollah has been saying that

they're firing these rockets, they're carrying out these attacks in order - - as a response to Israel's military campaign in Gaza.

So, everything is very much connected in this region, in this situation, and we will obviously just have to monitor the situation very closely over

the coming weeks to see whether or not we are approaching that tipping point in this conflict.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, Jeremy and as you so accurately I think described there, it really does intensify the need and the pressure for some kind of

ceasefire arrangement to try and head this off to. For now, thank you, Jeremy Diamond there.

OK, this is just in, a Georgia Appeals Court has paused at Donald Trump's state elections subversion case indefinitely. It will be on hold until a

panel of judges rules on whether District Attorney Fani Willis should be disqualified. We'll bring you more on this later in just as we learn

further details.

And more news just in, CNN just learning that New York City's Police Department is preparing to revoke Donald Trump's gun license. A senior

police official said two of his three pistols were turned over, the third was lawfully moved to Florida. The move comes after the former president

was convicted of 34 felonies last week. Possession of a gun by a convicted felon is a federal crime.

John Miller is with us now. John, just on the technicalities here, so that gun can stay in Florida without breaking any New York laws now, I guess it

just can't be bought back. But these are the consequences of being a convicted felon in New York.

JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: Well, yes, but possession of a gun in Florida by a convicted felon under most

conditions is also a felony. But skip all of that, federal law in the United States says if you're convicted of a felony, you can't be in

possession of a firearm, or even ammunition or even a single bullet.


So, the question now is, where is that third gun? Does the former president still possess it? Does he have custody and control over it? Was it turned

into authorities in Florida after his conviction?

And these are questions we have run up the flagpole with the Trump camp. And we still have not gotten an answer from them on that. They're checking

into it now, I assume.

CHATTERLEY: But your first point, actually, to my question about the location as you said, it's actually a federal crime if you are a convicted

felon to have a gun.

So, somewhere or other, this gun needs to be handed over to the authorities as soon as possible. Is that the point?

MILLER: That is the point.


MILLER: And I mean, we don't know, that may have happened and that's based on if you look at when he was indicted by the Manhattan district attorney

in New York State, his guns were turned over to the NYPD and vouchered for safekeeping pending the outcome of that case, now as a convicted felon in

New York, those guns aren't coming back to him.

But there was a third gun listed on the New York license, which they learned would -- was lawfully transferred to Florida.

So, the question that has to be settled from an accounting standpoint is where is that third gun? Does he still have it? Was it turned over? If so,

when and to whom? And what's the record of that?

CHATTERLEY: Yes, I mean, and the bigger point here is once you've been convicted of a crime in a state like New York, there is a process now that

goes through that as a convicted felon, there are limitations.

What comes to mind is as other things that might be triggered as a result of this, clearly, the first one here is the gun license, and that gets

revoked. Anything else that you would flag in the (INAUDIBLE) future?

MILLER: Well, I mean, you would -- you would -- you would have to kind of transfer all the New York questions down to Florida, which is, so in Palm

Beach County, did he obtain a license from the Palm Beach County Sheriff for the state of Florida to possess or carry that gun?

The gun laws in Florida are very different from the gun laws in New York. But the one thing that won't be different is if he's a convicted felon, and

he still possesses it, that could be a problem.

Now, the strange part here is we're talking about Donald Trump, former president of the United States, afforded Secret Service protection 24/7

wherever he is, presumably for life.

So, why would he need to have a gun? Why would he need a weapon for personal protection? Why would he need a permit to carry a concealed

firearm? He probably wouldn't.

But it does appear that since his license was still in effect at the time he was charged in Manhattan, and he's had it for at least a couple of

decades, that it appears he continued having a license to carry a gun in New York City through the entire time he was president of the United

States. And during the time he has been guarded by the Secret Service as a former president, which is odd and somewhat unique.

CHATTERLEY: A constitutional right to bear arms until it isn't. But your point about the Secret Service protection that he's constantly surrounded

by and will continue to be so is moot. We are talking about a former president here.

Yes, sir, thank you so much for your wisdom. Great to chat to you.

MILLER: Great to talk to you.

CHATTERLEY: Thank you.

All right, they're usually worn by police officers but now workers at T.J. Maxx are starting to wear body cameras, part of a new crackdown on


The brand's owner TJX says it's equipping security workers with the devices at some of its stores, saying it wants customers and employees to feel

safer. But there's criticism over just how effective the move will be.

Nathaniel Meyersohn joins us now on the story.

Nathaniel, for people that perhaps don't live in the United States and are watching, they'd be bamboozled I think to go into a hardware store or into

a pharmacy and see everything behind screens and barriers to prevent people from stealing.

But that's the point that they're doing this for security purposes, to protect workers, I guess and their product.

NATHANIEL MEYERSOHN, CNN BUSINESS REPORTER: Yes, Julia, you mentioned the locked up products, locked up, you know, toothpaste, shampoo. These body

cameras are just the latest step that retailers are taking to try to crack down on shoplifting, both everyday shoplifting, petty shoplifting, but also

some of these kind of smash and grab -- smash and grab robberies that we've seen from more organized groups.

And T.J. Maxx is not the only company that's rolling out body cameras. In the U.K., you have Tesco, Lidl, and also Greggs, they've armed their

workers with body cameras.

So, it's both a way to signal to customers and employees that stores are safer. It's a -- it's a way to try to deter shoplifting and potentially

gather evidence of suspects to share with law enforcement of when suspects come in.


So, certainly a major escalation here from retailers in this battle against shoplifting.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, I mean, you wrote a great article on this as well. And one of the facts that I pulled out from that, about 90 percent of asset

protection specialists surveyed last year by the National Retail Federation said the crime had become more of a risk over the prior three years, and

that shoplifters themselves have become more violent.

What do criminologist to those that you've spoken to, experts in this field, say the impact of these body cams will do? Do they think it will

actually help?

MEYERSOHN: So, Julia, we spoke to both criminologist and also retail union leaders, retail worker union leaders and workers themselves and the

reaction is very mixed here. There are a lot of concerns. You know, it's really opening up kind of a can of worms with these body cameras, questions

about privacy, training.

I mean, you are giving workers kind of police like tools, police like body cameras, putting them in the hands of hourly retail workers making $15.00,

$16.00 an hour.

I spoke with one T.J. Maxx worker who said that they felt that this was more security theater, these cameras were more theater, and were not

actually that effective.

I spoke with a re -- with the union leader. And he told me that workers really want to see more training and other security measures. And the union

leaders worried that the cameras could be used to potentially surveil workers or try to deter union organizing.

So, look, there's a lot of concerns from customer privacy standpoint and also worker safety.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, I mean, workers didn't want to be put in a position either were in defending a product, they end up getting injured themselves or sued

by somebody for hurting somebody that was trying to steal something, the world has gone mad.

Nathaniel, thank you for that report. Nathaniel Meyersohn there.

And that's QUEST MEANS BUSINESS. I'm Julia Chatterley.