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Quest Means Business

Hunter Biden Found Guilty On All Counts In Gun Case; Trump Campaign Responds To Hunter Biden Convictions; WSJ Hamas Leader Says His Group Has Upper Hand In War; Hunter Biden Convicted On Federal Gun Charges; Inside Camp For ISIS Families; Apple Partners With OpenAi For Latest iPhone Features. Aired 4-5p ET

Aired June 11, 2024 - 16:00   ET



JULIA CHATTERLEY, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST: Florescent green behind those ringing the closing bell at the New York Stock Exchange, but it is red on

the screen for markets. The Dow down two-tenths of a percent despite strong gains for Apple, some nervousness, I think heading into the Federal Reserve

decision tomorrow, and those other markets and the these are the main events.

Hunter Biden found guilty on all three federal gun charges after the verdict, three jurors telling CNN, they questioned the value of the

criminal case.

Hamas has responded to the latest ceasefire proposal.

And Apple shares hit a record high. Investors hoping the new AI features will jumpstart sales.

Live from New York. It is Tuesday, June 11th. I'm Julia Chatterley, in for Richard Quest, and this is QUEST MEANS BUSINESS.

A good evening once again.

For the first time in Us history, the son of a sitting president has been convicted in a criminal trial.

Let's get straight to Jim Sciutto who is covering the story for us in Washington -- Jim.


Certainly a seminal moment, first-time a president's son or a member of the president's immediate family has been charged with a federal crime.

A federal jury in Delaware found Hunter Biden guilty on three felony gun charges. It took the jury just about three hours of deliberation to reach

that verdict. Hunter Biden said he is disappointed by the verdict, but still grateful for his family's love.

The special counsel in this case, David Weiss, a Trump appointee said the president's son brought this verdict on himself in 2018 by lying about his

drug addiction when he bought a gun.


DAVID WEISS, SPECIAL COUNSEL: No one in this country is above the law. Everyone must be accountable for their actions, even this defendant;

however, Hunter Biden, should be no more accountable than any other citizen convicted of this same conduct.

The prosecution has been and will continue to be committed to this principle and to the principles of federal prosecution in carrying out its



SCIUTTO: Certainly been a consequential couple of weeks in this country with a former US president convicted of felonies, and now a current

president's son convicted.

Marshall Cohen is outside the courthouse in Wilmington, Delaware who was inside it for much of this trial. He joins me now.

Tell us, Marshall how Hunter Biden responded to his conviction.

MARSHALL COHEN, CNN REPORTER: Jim, it has been a rough process and obviously, this was the worst-case scenario for Hunter Biden and the entire

Biden family who has been watching this case so closely.

So when those verdicts were read out, very little reaction from the president's son. He basically was looking straight, taking it all in. After

court adjourned, he turned around, flashed a very brief smile to his legal team and then hugged them all one by one. Some pats on the back as well.

He walked out and there were quite a number of family members and friends that had been there to support him throughout. It was almost like are

receiving line, Jim, one-by-one he gave them hugs and kisses and pats on the back and he is going to be needing them their support as he goes

through this journey of being a convicted criminal because the next step is sentencing.

He will eventually learn his punishment. The judge which did not set a sentencing date quite yet, but she said it should be probably around four

months from now, which would put it in the fall right around the time of the peak of the re-election campaign.

So he could face up to 25 years in prison. That's the statutory maximum. But he is a first-time offender. This was not a violent offense. It is

highly unlikely that that's going to happen. A lot of the legal experts that have been watching this case have said probation might be what he

ultimately ends up with.

One more thing, Jim, that I do want to note, it happened so quickly this morning. It was fast between the moment that they announced that the

verdict was in until the time that they actually read that verdict.

It was its pretty swift. So fast in fact, that the First Lady, Jill Biden, she missed it. She walked into the court about five minutes after things

wrapped up. She missed the verdict, but she has been there obviously throughout this whole process for her son.

SCIUTTO: We should note, President Biden himself has said he respects the outcome of this case, and he has said prior that he would not consider a

pardon for his son, despite the remarkable nature of this commitment -- of this conviction, rather.

Marshall Cohen, thanks so much.

The president also emphasized that he is a dad in response to this verdict.


He says he is proud of his son for being resilient in his ongoing recovery, and as I said, that he will respect the judicial process as Hunter Biden

awaits his sentencing, but also considers an appeal.

Maria Cardona is a Democratic strategist and CNN political commentator. She joins me now.

But Maria, we talked a lot about the effect of Trump's felony conviction on his election chances. This is of course, different. It is not the president

himself, it is the president's son, but it is the president's son here.

And I wonder, do you see political damage, political impact for President Biden from this conviction?

MARIA CARDONA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I don't see any political damage for President Biden notwithstanding what Republicans will probably try to

do to inflict some of that damage, but I think the American people well see through that. And frankly, I think Republicans could suffer from a backlash

if they tried to politicize this too much.

Because as you know, Jim, so many American families feel the relevancy of what the Biden family is going through right now, and especially with the

public remarks that President Biden has focused on, and that is not so much him as president of the United States, but Joe Biden, as a father, Joe

Biden as a dad who is standing by his son, who has said that he is proud of him, he is proud of the man that he has become, understanding everything he

has gone through and the family has gone throughout Hunter Biden's recovery.

And I think importantly, also, Jim, the fact that President Biden has said that he is not going to intervene in any of this, that he is going to

respect the outcome, that he is not going to pardon his son even if he is convicted, and we just saw that he is. You know how tough that would be,

and you know if the tables were turned, somebody like Donald Trump would never, ever have the ability to say something like that.

And in fact, we already see Donald Trump saying that if he wins, he is going to pardon the January 6 "warriors and hostages" that he believes they

are, because he doesn't care about the country. He doesn't care about American voters.

He doesn't care about our democracy. He doesn't care about our Constitution. He only cares about himself. He only cares about staying out

of prison.

That is the stark contrast that we are were seeing between Donald Trump and Joe Biden today.

SCIUTTO: Well, Donald Trump did respond to this conviction today and his statement raised again without basis, an allegation that well, this case,

though prosecuted by Joe Biden's DOJ against his own son somehow is a distraction from his unfounded claims about a Biden crime family.

But there was something notable that our team discovered. The initial statement supplied to CNN included a line in there of sympathy to some

degree for Hunter Biden, kind of wishing him well, and then that statement was retracted, that line taken out. What's your reaction to that?

There was one line of kindness in there and that was removed.

CARDONA: You know that is -- it would be surprising if we didn't already know who Donald Trump was at his core and I believe that who he is at his

core is pretty much a putrid human being.

I think that original statement, Jim, probably came from his team, probably came from his smart strategists who are trying to protect him from himself

and then, Donald Trump gets a hold of the statement and says, no, I'm not going to say anything about feeling bad or having sympathy for Hunter


We know he doesn't have a sympathetic bone or blood cell in his body, and I think at the end of the day, Jim, that is what the American people are

going to see in terms of the contrast between, again President Joe Biden and somebody like Donald Trump.

You know that elections are all about the future, but they're also all about a voter's gut and when are people are going to go into that ballot

box in November, you know that the vast majority of them are going to want somebody in the White House that they can feel good about, that they can

say this person understands the humanity, with which so many of us have to live our lives.

That person is not going to be Donald Trump.

SCIUTTO: There has been some data, some polling since Donald Trump's own conviction, showing a shift in the horse race, numbers on the race, but not

a big one, a couple of points in Joe Biden's favor.


SCIUTTO: You have to imagine a different time a felony conviction might have a bigger impact, but do you consider that shift a significant one and

a lasting one? Because two points, it is not a lot.


CARDONA: Sure. I do only because I think it is going to continue to shift in President Biden's favor, in time, Jim, because not a whole lot of time

has passed since those 34 felony convictions that a jury of Donald Trump's peers decided that that's what he deserves based on all of the evidence.

I think it is going to take time to sink in. I believe that the majority of Americans still have not completely tuned in to this election, have not

completely tuned into every single detail, and so I think those numbers in favor of Joe Biden are going to continue to grow.

But I also believe and I think this is critical and important and smart that the Biden campaign is not counting on this conviction in order to win

them the election, and I think that is really smart because it has never been part of their strategy to count on any of Donald Trump's legal woes or


It is a good contrast to use and for his supporters to use and they will, but the Biden campaign is focused on delivering their own message, their

own accomplishments, and frankly, the contrast and this conviction does help with that contrast between somebody who is focused on delivering for

the American people every single day, and somebody who wants to destroy our democracy and only talks about revenge, vengeance, and retribution, and

that's a great contrast that I believe at the end of the day, Joe Biden will win in November.

SCIUTTO: Maria Cardona, Democratic strategist, thanks so much.

Well, Hamas has submitted its response to the -led ceasefire proposal. We are going to have the latest from Jerusalem.

Julia Chatterley, she is going to return right after this.



Hamas believes it has the upper hand in the war against Israel, according to a new "Wall Street Journal" report. The paper says it has seen leaked

messages from the military leader of Hamas.

In them, Yahya Sinwar reportedly says Hamas has the Israeli's "right where we want them."

"The Journal" also says Sinwar described civilian deaths as "necessary sacrifices."


Hamas has submitted its response, too, to the US ceasefire proposal backed by the United Nations Security Council. Hamas says it has some amendments

to the plan that prioritize the Palestinian people.

The statement ends by saying they expressed readiness for a ceasefire to Egyptian and Qatari mediators.

Paula Hancocks is in Jerusalem for his tonight.

Paula, do we have any sense of what their proposed amendments look like.

PAULA HANCOCKS, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Julia, we have been waiting for this official response from Hamas. It has come now and they say

that they have made comments on the Israeli proposal.

Now we know the points that they have been pushing consistently is they want a permanent and complete ceasefire and they also want all Israeli

military to pull out of Gaza.

So at this point, the amendments or the suggestions from Hamas with the mediators, so Qatar and Egypt, they say that they will be considering those

amendments. They will also be working with the US mediators as well to try and figure out if a deal can still be done, and it comes on the same day

that we also had a statement from an Israeli government official, which really comes the closest so far to suggesting that Israel will sign on to

this proposal.

It is a three-phase ceasefire and hostage deal which President Biden has pushed and he says it is an Israeli proposal, but we've really not seen a

full-throated agreement to the proposal from Israel itself, either.

They say that they will agree to a full ceasefire if certain conditions are met, if the governing and military capabilities of Hamas are destroyed, if

the hostages are returned, and if Gaza does not pose a threat to Israel.

So at face value, some of those do appear slightly different, slightly at odds with the three-phase proposal at this point given the fact that the

first phase says there will be a six-week ceasefire and that should evolve into the second space when there will be a complete cessation of


So all of this really as we have heard from both sides today. We have heard from Hamas, we have heard from Israel; neither side giving a full

endorsement of this proposal at this point but they are still talking. They have given amendments at least in Hamas' point of view. So I think the hope

will be with the US Secretary of State in the region trying to push this proposal, that it potentially could be a step forward.

But at this point, there is no agreement -- Julia.

CHATTERLEY: In the interim on this, as Hamas appears to put forward amendments to this that prioritize the Gazan people, can we talk about "The

Wall Street Journal" reporting that appears to backup what the Israelis have long said, which is that Hamas loses or views the loss of its own

people in some way as helping their cause because it makes the Israelis look bad.

One of the lines, "We have the Israelis right where we want them." What more did we hear from that report?

HANCOCKS: So, this "Wall Street Journal" reporting, they alleged that they saw messages from Yahya Sinwar, who is the Hamas leader in Gaza to some of

the Hamas political leadership in Doha, in Qatar, pointing out that they shouldn't agree to the proposal, and they should be pushing for a permanent


So this is what we heard consistently from Hamas that they want this permanent ceasefire. They want the complete pullout of all Israeli military

from Gaza and it is really the gap that we've been seeing between the Hamas and Israeli positions to say the least, on this proposal.

So these are potentially messages that "The Wall Street Journal" has seen saying really that Sinwar believes that Hamas does have an advantage over

Israel. It does have the upper hand, and the fact that there are these loss of life on the Palestinian side plays into her Hamas' hands as it plays

against Israel.

Now we've heard an Israeli response as expected to this reporting saying that that is exactly what they believe, that this is Hamas using the

Palestinian civilians to get what they want, but of course at this point, it does come, this reporting on the same day that we are hearing at least

from Hamas, an official response, meaning that it would have potentially likely come from Sinwar himself as he is the one that is believed to be the

only one that can agree to this proposal -- Julia.

CHATTERLEY: And he, of course, has been hiding since the October 7th attacks, unlike the Gazan people who have nowhere to hide.

Paula Hancocks, thank you for that report.


Now, Singapore Airlines is offering thousands of dollars to passengers hurt on a flight that hit severe turbulence last month. One passenger with a

heart condition died, dozens more were hurt on the Boeing 777.

Now Singapore Airlines is offering $10,000.00 for those who suffered minor injuries and $25,000.00 for those with serious injuries. Every passenger

has been given more than $700.00 for immediate needs and their plane tickets were refunded, too.

Anna Stewart is in London for us.

Anna, I mean, there was some people here that obviously walked away uninjured. There were those that perhaps suffered some minor injuries, some

suffered with serious injuries.

Do we know whether these initial payouts will impact their ability to perhaps claim more going forward?

ANNA STEWART, CNN REPORTER: That's a really interesting question. I think it is worth noting that I think more than 20 people ended up in intensive

care in a Bangkok hospital for injuries to spine, brain, and skulls. So really quite severe injuries.

Now as you say, those with more serious injuries get a starting sort of piece of payment of $25,000.00, but that's just an advance on a final

compensation package. So clearly, there is more to be argued for.

But ultimately, I don't think there are any strings attached, at least in what is written from Singapore Airlines for any of these compensation

packages. Although a lawyer representing some of the passengers has suggested that everyone and anyone before signing anything like that should

of course, get legal advice first.

The question is, of course, what will the final payout be for Singapore Airlines and so much of that depends on the ongoing investigation to

essentially determine whether or not the airline was at fault or whether so this was completely unavoidable.

Under the Montreal Convention, airlines do have a limit in terms of liability if it wasn't their fault. So that also plays into the mix here.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, that was actually going to be my next question about how we can perhaps better predict events like this, whether airlines need to

look at some kind of different insurance perhaps if we are seeing more adverse weather events, assuming we are, Anna, what can you tell us on that


STEWART: Yes, so, first of all, is it avoidable? Is this something that airline can do something about? Can injury to passengers be avoided?

Clearly, seatbelt warning signs are very useful. Can they be put through in time?

But secondly, is this a more frequent event? Is this a result of climate change? Is this perhaps an increased risk with simply more planes in the

air that is another argument out there. And ultimately, what can airlines do to help each other?

So, for some time now, IATA, which is the big airline association, has had a Turbulence Awareness Program in place. I was actually with IATA in Dubai

last week for their big annual conference and lots more airlines are interested in joining this.

It is essentially real-time data sharing of things like turbulence so that more airlines can be aware when there are these sudden incidents of


But also, you would imagine and this was discussed at great length, what artificial intelligence could do in this space in terms of predictive

modeling with all that data. By the end of the day, turbulence unfortunately is a very real hazard and it can be incredibly sudden, and I

for one, Julia, am definitely buckling in with my seatbelt pretty much at all times now on a flight.

CHATTERLEY: Absolutely. Vigilant is the word. Anna, we're both going to be lustering ourselves to those chairs and obviously for everyone that was

injured, we wish them a speedy recovery.

Anna, thank you for that. Good to chat with you.

All right, coming up, in a historic verdict, the president's son has been found guilty of felony gun charges. We will discuss his potential sentence,




CHATTERLEY: Hello, I'm Julia Chatterley and there is more QUEST MEANS BUSINESS in a moment when we will give you an exclusive look inside a

forgotten camp housing the wives and children of ISIS fighters.

And Apple shareholders are welcoming a new tie-up with ChatGPT maker, OpenAI, sending shares to all all-time highs.

But before that, the headlines this hour.

Police in the US state of Georgia, say four people are alert and conscious after being shot at a food court in downtown Atlanta. Authorities say, one

of them is a possible suspect. The building was placed on lockdown. A motive for the shooting is unclear.

In Northeastern China, four US college instructors are being treated for non-life-threatening injuries after being stabbed at a public park.

Police say they've arrested the 55-year-old man who attacked the Americans and a Chinese tourist who tried to stop him. The US State Department says

it is monitoring the situation.

A new government has been formed in Haiti. It will be led by Prime Minister Garry Conille, 18 ministries and 14 ministers will make up the new

government. All this, as gang violence continues in the capital.

Police say three officers were killed in a gang ambush just over the weekend.

Chiquita Brands, one of the world's largest banana producers has been hit with a $38 million civil judgment. A US jury in Florida found the company

liable for financing a Colombian paramilitary organization. Chiquita has been ordered to pay the money to families of eight people killed by the

group. The company told CNN, it will appeal the verdict.

SCIUTTO: Returning now to our top story, the US president's son, Hunter Biden has been convicted by a jury of three felony gun charges, all the

charges he faced. He now faces at the maximum end, 25 years in prison, $750,000.00 in fines. No lawyer we've spoken to believes it will get to

that extent. His sentence likely to be less severe given that he is a first-time offender, even the possibility of just probation is on the


The judge said sentencing will take place in about four months. One of the jurors spoke to CNN earlier. He said he does not believe Hunter Biden

deserves the maximum sentence.


VOICE OF JUROR 10: In deliberating, I was -- we were not thinking of the sentencing and no, I really don't think that Hunter belongs in jail.


SCIUTTO: Bennett Gershman is a former prosecutor, he is now a distinguished professor of law at Pace University. He joins me now.


Good to have you on. I mean, first, often with cases like this, stories will mention what the maximum penalties are. Do you agree in this case that

it is far more likely, especially given he's a first-time offender and the nature of these particular crimes, how seldom they're prosecuted

individually that he will receive when sentenced a far lesser sentence?

BENNETT GERSHMAN, PROFESSOR: I think it's impossible for the maximum sentence to be called, 25 years. Now typically, when crimes are committed

or part of the same event or occurrence the punishments are overlapped. They're not added onto each other, which is what the 25-year number does.

So the maximum punishment really is 10 years, and given the fact that he is a first-time offender, given the fact that the government made a plea deal

with him not too long ago where he didn't serve any time in jail, it's very, very likely that he will not receive jail or significant jail. And I

would say probation is very likely in accord with the comments that this juror expressed.

SCIUTTO: The special counsel, David Weiss, gave brief comments following the verdict, and he said that Hunter Biden, in his words, should be no more

accountable than any other citizen convicted of the same crime here. Now some question whether Trump had he not been named Trump would face the

charges he faced in New York and similarly, whether Biden had he not been named Biden would have been prosecuted for such charges, given how seldom

these charges are prosecuted independently and not tied to another crime. I wonder what's your answer to that question?

GERSHMAN: Yes, Jim. It's hard to speculate on what the name mattered. I mean, you know, you're correct. This type of a crime, false statements on

an application for a gun license, is seldom prosecuted. But the fact that this case was stood out, Republicans were complaining about the fact that

he wasn't being prosecuted, it's hard to know whether the name itself mattered. You know, and people will come to different conclusions about

that. I don't know.

I would say that the fact that is case did receive such high-profile attention, maybe the prosecution itself it would look like they were going

political and in not prosecuting, so it's hard to say.

SCIUTTO: Listen, many of those same critics who were complaining it was not being prosecuted are still complaining today at his conviction, claiming

somehow that it's a distraction, and Trump himself said this from other alleged but not substantiated crimes by the Biden family. There will likely

be an appeal in this case. Do you think it's likely that he and his team, Hunter Biden and his team, will be successful on appeal?

GERSHMAN: Yes, Jim, most appellate courts, when they review cases, will frequently say that no trials -- no trials have mistakes and errors. As I

saw this case, you know, it went very rapidly. I didn't see any significant issue that might matter on appeal. It seemed that the evidence by the

prosecution went smoothly. It seemed that the defense put in their case. I didn't really see any significant problem with the case itself and so I

think, well, there will very likely be an appeal.

My opinion is an appeal is a long shot. I didn't see anything significant that would warrant the appellate court (INAUDIBLE) this conviction.

SCIUTTO: Bennett Gershman, thanks so much. I mean, what a remarkable couple of weeks, too. First, a former president, current candidate for president

charged with felonies and now a sitting president's son charged with felonies or convicted, I should say, of felonies as well. Thanks so much

for joining.

Still to come this hour, five years after the defeat of ISIS, tens of thousands of ISIS suspects and their families are being held across

northern Syria. Their story ahead.



CHATTERLEY: welcome back.

A ticking time bomb about to explode. Those ominous words used to describe a camp housing the wives and children of ISIS fighters. It's been five

years since the defeat of the terror group, and more than 50,000 ISIS suspects and their families are still being held in prisons and camps

across Syria. The majority of them are children, stateless and now coming of age.

Clarissa Ward gained extraordinary access to some of the facilities, including the notorious Panorama Prison. This is her exclusive report.


CLARISSA WARD, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Cell phone videos of ISIS' brutal justice that the world hoped it would never

see again.

Shared for the first time with CNN, these images weren't captured in Raqqa or Mosul in 2016. They were taken in 2022 in the Al-Hol camp in northern

Syria. The sprawling dumping ground for the women and children captured after ISIS was defeated. Five years after the fall of the caliphate, ISIS'

ideology lives on here. Security officials warned it is a ticking time bomb, ungovernable and hostile to the outside world.

You can see just how vast this place is. More than 40,000 people are living here. And the most dangerous part of the camp is called the annex. That's

where some 6,000 foreign nationals are currently living.

(Voice-over): We were granted exceptionally rare access to the annex by the U.S.-backed Syrian Democratic Forces or SDF, who control the camp. The

women here hail from more than 60 different countries. Several raised their right index fingers for the cameras, a sign of solidarity with the Islamic


Do you regret your decision to join ISIS or --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No. Why should I regret this?

WARD (voice-over): She complains that the conditions in the camp are awful.

There are people in the world who will say, you went to join ISIS. You deserve it. You deserve it. What do you say to that?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Normally, even with enemies, women and children need services.

WARD (voice-over): The majority of Al-Hol's residents are kids who have ended up here through no fault of their own. The U.N. has called it a

blight on the conscience of humanity.


It is effectively a prison camp where women and children are arbitrarily and indefinitely detained. A group stops us with a frantic plea. One of

their sons has been arrested trying to escape the camp.

She's asking if she can get her son back, who's in a prison. He's 10 years old.

(Voice-over): We wanted to send him out so the SDF wouldn't take him, she tells us. Once boys turn 12 here, they take them.

It is a troubling story we hear over and over again. The SDF says it is their policy to separate adolescent boys because they are being radicalized

by their mothers. An SDF raid earlier this year netted this video of a training session for children inside the camp. The SDF claims young teenage

boys are married off to repopulate the next generation of ISIS fighters which they say may explain the roughly 60 births recorded here every month.

This is where some of those boys end up after they are taken. The Orkesh rehabilitation center. Conditions here are much better than the camps, but

there are only 150 beds and they are all full.

Shamil Chakar grew up in Cologne, Germany until his parents took the family to the ISIS capital Raqqa. A shrapnel injury to his head has left Shamil


How old are you? You don't know.

(Voice-over): Shamil was living in Al-Hol camp with his mother and siblings until a few years ago when security forces came into their tent in the

middle of the night.

A man came and pulled me up and tied my hand behind my back. My mom was screaming. She said leave him alone, he tells us. I didn't want to go with

them. He pushed me saying, put on your shoes, but I didn't. Then he hit me.

Islam (PH) is from Dagestan, Russia and is one of the youngest boys here.

So he's saying that he is just 12-years-old. He has been here about three or four months. He was taken from his mother. He doesn't even know what his

last name is.

(Voice-over): Human rights organizations have said the separations are an appalling violation of international law. But the SDF's top general,

Mazloum Abdi, defends the policy.

GEN. MAZLOUM ABDI, COMMANDER, SYRIAN DEMOCRATIC FORCES (through translator): Instead of these organizations condemning what we are doing

and calling it a human rights violation, these organizations should give us help when it comes to a program that we have in place for years now to

rehabilitate these children.

WARD: But part of the problem seems to be that once these young boys turn 18, there's not anywhere for them to go, particularly if they can't return

to their home countries, and so some of them I believe are ending up in prison.

ABDI (through translator): This is not a policy that we are following, to put them in prison at 18. The reality is the goal is to reintegrate them

with society.

WARD (voice-over): But CNN has found that boys as young as 14 had been held here at the notorious Panorama prison. With an estimated 4,000 inmates, it

is the largest concentration of ISIS fighters in the world. No journalist has been allowed inside Panorama since 2021 until now.

So the head of the prison has asked me to put on a head scarf while we walk through here because these are some of the most radicalized prisoners they


(Voice-over): A senior U.S. official told us the number one concern at Panorama is a prison break. A fear that was realized in 2022 when hundreds

of inmates managed to escape.

And I look inside.

(Voice-over): 25 men sit cross-legged in silence. The cell is spotless. The men we see appear to be in decent physical condition but tuberculosis is

rampant in the prison. And we are only allowed to look inside two cells.

Are you British? You are? Where you from?

(Voice-over): A British man approaches the great, but does not want to show his face.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We've been here for like, five or six years. We don't know what's going on.

WARD: I know.

(Voice-over): Advocacy groups called the U.S.-funded Panorama a legal black hole, worse than Guantanamo Bay.


In an interrogation room, we meet 19-year-old Stefan Uterloo from Suriname. He tells us he was brought to the prison when he was 14 along with more

than 100 other minors.

Have you had a lawyer ever? You talked to a lawyer?

STEFAN UTERLOO, PRISONER: No. I don't know about the big guys. You speak about the kids, if you want to know the truth, we don't know even why

you're always like punished. It's like five years in this prison, and we're punished. We don't even know what we've done. Like we've been in prison

because of our parents.

WARD (voice-over): At the SDF intelligence headquarters, we meet British Pakistani Dr. Muhammad Saqib. Accused of joining ISIS he claims he was the

victim of an elaborate kidnapping plot and says Panorama's inmates are abused.

MUHAMMAD SAQIB, PRISONER: So we live in torture. I live in fear. Torture.

WARD: When you say you live in torture, do you mean that you are actually physically being tortured?

SAQIB: This happens on and off.

WARD: What kind of torture?

SAQIB: Like beating by the stick. By the guards. To be honest, I'm just waiting for my death. There's no getting out of this prison. Probably


WARD (voice-over): The warden at Panorama called Saqib's claim of abuse false, saying, quote, "All parts of the prison are monitored by cameras and

no prison guard can act in this way."

The SDF and the U.S. are pushing countries to repatriate their citizens from Syria, saying it is the only solution to this complex and dangerous

situation. But the process has been slow and many, including Western allies, are dragging their feet.

In the Al-Roj camp, we meet Brits, Canadians, Belgians, Australians, and a couple of Americans. 30-year-old Hoda Muthana has been stuck here with her

7-year-old son for more than five years.

I have to ask you, I'm seeing all of the women here are fully covered. A lot of them covering their faces. You're not covered, you're wearing a T-

shirt. Is that hard?

HODA MUTHANA, DETAINEE: It was hard when I first took it. I would say for the first two, three years, people were not accepting of it, you know. And

they harassed us a lot. They stole our stuff, you know, and I had to stay strong and show example for my son, you know.

WARD (voice-over): Born and raised in the U.S. Hoda became radicalized online at the age of 20, and left her family in Alabama to live under ISIS,

a decision she quickly regretted.

If you were to be able to go back to the U.S. and you had to go on trial, potentially serve time in prison, have you reconciled yourself with that


MUTHANA: I always tell myself that going to prison would be a step forward in my life. If I had any time to serve, I'd serve it and I'd come out and

begin my life with my son.

WARD (voice-over): For now that is not an option. While the U.S. advocates repatriation, it ruled Hoda's U.S. citizenship invalid on a technicality.

Now she lives in fear for her son's future.

What do you miss most about America?

MUTHANA: I just want to breathe American air and be around people. I love the people of America. They're very open and they're very forgiving and

they're very -- they are people who gives second chances. And I think if they were to sit down with me and listen to my story from the beginning,

they would give me a second chance.

WARD (voice-over): But second chances are hard to come by here. For most, repentance is demanded and forgiveness rarely given. As the cost of

ignoring this ugly crisis continues to mount.

Clarissa Ward, CNN, Northern Syria.


CHATTERLEY: Now in a statement to CNN, the U.S. State Department said, quote, "The department has not changed its position with regards to Miss

Muthana's citizenship status as the State Department determined and the courts agreed she's not and never was a U.S. citizen."

OK. Coming up after this, Apple shares surged to a new record today after it announced its new AI features. Now Elon Musk is taking aim at its

partnership with OpenAI. We'll discuss why, next.



CHATTERLEY: Welcome back.

Apple shares surging to a new record today, closing more than 7 percent higher. It makes up for Monday's losses to some degree after Apple revealed

plans to put AI features in their products. It also announced a partnership with OpenAI and Elon Musk is none too pleased. Musk said he'll ban iPhones

at his company if Apple integrates OpenAI into their operating systems, saying it will present an unacceptable security risk.

It's worth noting that Musk co-founded OpenAI back in 2015. He's had a rather rocky relationship with the company since.

Samantha Murphy Kelly just got an early look at all the new AI features and she joins us now from New York.

Never mind the fighting, Samantha. Welcome. I know you're an iPhone user, not that we have any bias on this show. So what difference did the AI

features make? What do you make of it?

SAMANTHA MURPHY KELLY, CNN SENIOR BUSINESS WRITER: Sure. So a lot of the features we were able to see up close and personal last night are not

unlike other features that are already on the market from Microsoft and Samsung and Google. A lot of these players have already been tinkering

around with these tools. Now it's Apple's chance to show its own spin on AI.

So some of the things that we saw were a lot of like compositions, things related to crafting an e-mail or perhaps like writing a cover letter,

suggesting changes, fixing typos, things like that. Of course, there's image generation, lots of fun tools around emoji, and things like that. But

by far, the most interesting and potential here is with Siri, the virtual assistant that we've known for years with very mixed results, is now

getting a super charge, much smarter, more intuitive, can have back-and- forth conversations with.

It can do anything from kind of look at what you're working on, what you're doing and help you with things. So for example, if you have a conference

coming up, you can ask it to look for hotels in the area or suggest flights. And keep in mind that you have to be home by a certain time to

make it to, you know, a certain engagement. Another thing it could do is if you're texting with somebody and you're talking about tennis player Roger

Federer. for example, and you can say, hey, Siri, how many games has he won in his career, Siri will know who you're talking about and make changes.

One of the more interesting things and to your point about OpenAI is now Siri will be integrated with ChatGPT. So if you ask Siri specific question

and it thinks it's better suited for ChatGPT, it will ask, it'll prompt you if you want to consent to either upload a photo or a document or proceed

and ask a question for ChatGPT.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, it seems like Siri is good for what's already on your phone or you can go to ChatGPT if you want to go above that. Someone was

talking to you. Oh, that's --

KELLY: It's Siri. Sisi is talking to me.

CHATTERLEY: Oh, my goodness.


KELLY: I know. She's always around.

CHATTERLEY: She said I don't understand because I understand perfectly what I'm saying.

KELLY: She will understand much sooner. Yes.

CHATTERLEY: Well, I was going to ask and maybe Siri has got a better answer. Is this sort of debate concern that we heard from Elon Musk? We

know that there's a partnership now between OpenAI and Apple with ChatGPT. What Elon Musk Was saying, I think reading between the lines, is Apple has

a heck of a load of our data as consumers, if you're in the Apple ecosystem, and what we know OpenAI needs is data to train its models and

beyond. So how do we know as consumers that our data is protected in this relationship?

KELLY: Yes. He actually raises a really good point. Apple was very clear that privacy and security is at the foremost of its priorities moving

forward with this. It's doing a lot of things like the consent that I mentioned earlier. It's also keeping things local to the device, not

sending things to the cloud. When you do do an inquiry with ChatGPT, it's not sharing your name or any information that would identify you as well.

But at the same time, you know, he raises a good point at a time when companies are still trying to figure out how employees can be using this

technology, should they be using it, and if it's something that they want to move forward with.

CHATTERLEY: Yes. As we missed a trick there, we should have asked Siri what they think of Elon Musk's view of the latest AI announcement but we're out

of time.

Samantha Murphy Kelly, great to have you. Thank you so much for that.

KELLY: Thanks.

CHATTERLEY: All right. Coming up, the final numbers from Wall Street right after this.


CHATTERLEY: And this just in to CNN. U.S. President Joe Biden has arrived back in Wilmington, Delaware, where he was seen embracing his son Hunter.

And there are those images there. An arm around each other. A federal jury there found Hunter Biden guilty on three felony gun charges. It took them

around three hours to reach their decision. Hunter Biden said he's disappointed by the verdict but grateful for his family's love.

And I think you can see that cleanly there, talking to his father as he arrives back. And I think the family support to Hunter Biden has been very

clear, including his mother, Jill Biden, as well.

And that is QUEST MEANS BUSINESS. I'm Julia Chatterley. "THE LEAD WITH JAKE TAPPER" starts right now.