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Quest Means Business

Netanyahu Asks for Forgiveness as Protests Sweep Israel; The Past, Present, and Future of New York's MoMA. Russia Strikes Ukraine As Children Return To School; Ukraine Trying To Stop Russian Advances In East Of Country; Harris Set To Publicly Oppose Sale Of U.S. Steel. Aired 4-5p ET

Aired September 02, 2024 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[16:00:22]

RICHARD QUEST, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST, "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS": The US markets are closed. It is the Labor Day, end of the summer holiday. I am

Richard Quest and this is special edition of QUEST MEANS BUSINESS.

Over the course of the hour, we have lots of wonderful content. I am at the Museum of Modern Art here in New York. We will be back in just a moment.

MoMA for short, between you and I.

Zain Asher is also with me today. Zain has the serious news of the day.

ZAIN ASHER, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST: Yes, I do. It is Monday, September 2nd, the Israeli prime minister has just addressed the nation as protesters

filled the streets, calling for a ceasefire deal.

I am Zain Asher in New York.

All right, Israel's Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is asking for forgiveness as grief, anger, and frustration sweep Israel for a second day.

Massive protests and a general labor strike brought thousands back to the streets demanding a deal to bring Israeli hostages home from Gaza. In an

extraordinary press conference, Mr. Netanyahu spoke directly to hostage families while defending his controversial approach to the war in Gaza.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BENJAMIN NETANYAHU, ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER (through translator): I am asking for your forgiveness that we didn't manage to bring them back alive.

We are very close, but we couldn't make it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ASHER: One of the victims, Israeli American Hersh Goldberg-Polin was mourned by large crowds at his funeral in Jerusalem. His mother, Rachel,

had this really heartbreaking message.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RACHEL GOLDBERG-POLIN, HERSH GOLDBERG-POLIN'S MOTHER: If there was something we could have done to save you and we didn't think of it, I beg

your forgiveness. We tried so very hard so deeply and desperately. I'm sorry.

Now, my Hersh, I ask for your help as we transform our hope into grief and this new unknown brand of pain.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ASHER: His parents were really did try so very hard. International diplomatic editor, Nic Robertson is in Tel Aviv for us.

So Nic, we just heard in that press conference with Netanyahu that he is vowing to hurt Hamas in a way that Israel has never done before. Just in

terms of how the Israeli public interpreted that press conference, do people really believe that the solution is actually more vengeance?

We've seen this movie before in Israel, and it hasn't worked out so well, especially for the hostages in Gaza.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Yes, I think for the majority of people in Israel and polls have that figure, just around about

two-thirds at the moment that the prime minister is no longer credible and he says he wants to get the hostages home, so his apology, very rare, those

very rare words of contrition, I think for a lot of people are going to ring hollow.

And when he says that he is going to essentially doubled down and go after Hamas and has doubled down on his negotiating position, which is hurdle too

far for Hamas as well, all of that, I think people are going to read as no change and therefore expect no change in the outcome which pushes all of

those people who have been on the streets protesting and the unions that wanted to go on strike that are now barred by law from going on strike.

I don't think it is going to change their desire to still get the hostages home. I just think it is going to reinforce their belief that the prime

minister is not the vehicle to do that, but I don't think people have really figured out a way. forward other than doing what they are doing, the

prime minister is doing what he is doing. It sounds like an oversimplification. Doesn't it?

But that's a sort of stalled point everything is at and really the prime minister, I think was emphasizing where he believes he is right and why he

is right and why he has been right historically, which just shows the depth of his intransigence, if you will, and the length that he won't go to, to

make the deal happy that the majority of people want that therefore what else is there for people to do except go out and protest.

ASHER: And in terms of Netanyahu's supporters, Nic, and obviously, he is deeply unpopular in Israel, but there have been people who have supported

him over the past ten, eleven months. is this a moment of reckoning for Netanyahu supporters after what happened on the weekend just seeing these

six hostages brutally murdered just before the Israelis -- the IDF was actually able to rescue their bodies.

[16:05:10]

I mean, is this the point at which his supporters start to question their support of him?

ROBERTSON: Those who have been public in their support for him and I am thinking here, there is a small group of hostage families that support the

prime minister and his tactics. They are not deviating, they haven't deviated. They are still supporting him. and the two principal government

ministers, Itamar Ben-Gvir and Bezalel Smotrich who, if you will sort of really stand on the very hard right nationalist flank of his coalition have

come out since the prime minister made the statement and supported him.

They have a lot to lose if, if they are not in government with Prime Minister Netanyahu because they are very likely to be in government again,

and under Netanyahu, they are able to advance their projects like expanding settlements and these sorts of things.

So they are standing with the prime minister. They have nowhere else to stand, indeed they are probably part of what props him up in his position,

although the prime minister was quoting his position back when Israel was pulling its troops out of Gaza back in the early notice 2003, 2004, 2005.

He was talking about what he told the prime minister then, Ariel Sharon, that he thought that the troops should, Israeli troops at that time,

shouldn't pull out of that border area between Gaza and Egypt because then that would be used as a route to get weapons through.

So, what he is telling us is that over the past 20 years, he has been saying this, so he is not likely to change it and his supporters are

backing him up on that because that's the way they get the policies through they want through this particular government.

ASHER: All right, Nic Robertson live for us there, thank you so much.

All right, when asked earlier, US President Joe Biden said, Mr. Netanyahu was not doing enough to secure a hostage and ceasefire deal. It is a rare

criticism by Biden of his Israeli counterpart, highlighting growing frustrations in the White House over Netanyahu's handling of the talks.

Gideon Levy is a columnist for Israeli newspaper "Haaretz" and was an adviser to the late Israeli Prime Minister Shimon Peres, he joins us live

now from Tel Aviv.

Gideon, thank you so much for being with us.

The fact that Hamas is now willing to outright murder Israeli hostages as essentially a negotiation strategy, that means that every single Israeli

hostage in Gaza right now is in imminent danger. What changes in Israel going forward do you think?

GIDEON LEVY, COLUMNIST, "HAARETZ": So, they were in imminent danger from square one, they are in imminent danger every day both by Hamas and by

Israeli bombarding and nothing changed. It is not the new policy, the new policy is if it all that if the Israeli forces are getting closer, they've

got now the command to assassinate the hostages if the soldiers are getting closer.

We just --

ASHER: But what we are seeing -- Gideon, what we saw over the weekend, just in terms of these six Israelis brutally murdered before their bodies were

taken back to Israel and the subsequent protests, the subsequent protests that we saw on Sunday, and actually today as well, really tells you that

this is an inflection point.

I mean, obviously there has been so much criticism towards Netanyahu for the past 10 months, sure, but this really is an inflection point. It

appears as though something in Israeli society is shifting, no?

LEVY: I am sure -- I am not sure because it is again the same camp which is very devoted and very pressing, which is protesting now for months and

months. It brought more energy, it brought more anger in the last weekend, but don't be wrong, this is not entirely his way.

This is Tel Aviv, this is Haifa. This is in many cases, certain parts of society. It is not entire Israel. We might like, we might not, but

Netanyahu until now to even know this protest, and if this protest will not gain more momentum, Netanyahu will be able to continue to ignore it.

ASHER: Can Netanyahu get away with -- and I am again sure what sort of accountability that will be. Obviously, there is not going to be elections

in Israel for at least another two years, but can Netanyahu keep getting away with moving the goalpost in these negotiations?

Obviously, he has touched on the fact that he believes the Philadelphi Corridor is hugely important, the fact that the IDF has to retain control

of that, but one hostage mother was on our air, Romi Gonen's mother was on our air earlier saying, look, I don't necessarily agree with that, these

are her words because at the end of the day the Philadelphi Corridor hasn't been important for six, seven months. Why is it suddenly important now?

[16:10:13]

Can Netanyahu get away with changing the rules of engagement continuously when it comes to these negotiations?

LEVY: Unfortunately, yes, he can. It depends much on the American pressure, which is almost non-existing, I must say so. I mean, all kind of remarks by

the president may be very important. but if they are not followed by any actions, they are quite hollow and Netanyahu doesn't face a real massive

American pressure.

I mean, as long as America, as long as the United States is supplying Israel's arms and ammunition, the United States tells Netanyahu continue

with this war. It is unbelievable contradiction to what the declaration state.

But in any case, Netanyahu can go on because he has a solid majority in the Parliament. The government is still with him.

We might like it, we might not. There might be many cracks, things might change, but right now, he is still quite strong in his seat and we

shouldn't mix wishful thinking out with reality.

ASHER: Yes, we've covered at least in the US, we've covered significantly the fact that President Biden has said, look, you know Netanyahu isn't

doing enough when it comes to securing the release of the hostages and the ceasefire negotiations.

But to your point, if that is not really followed up with any action, with any concrete action, then what difference does it make? These are just

words.

Gideon Levy, we have to leave it there. Thank you so much.

And when QUEST MEANS BUSINESS returns, I hand things over to Richard Quest who is at one of New York's most famous art museums as he just pointed out

earlier in the show -- Richard.

QUEST: Indeed. We are here at the Museum of Modern Art, it is known as MoMA. I spoke to the director and they have so many world class pieces of

art, so I wanted to know if given the choice, which one would he take home and put on the wall? If he was allowed.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:15:00 ]

QUEST: Live picture of Midtown Manhattan on a Labor Day holiday, and nestled right in the middle of it, you can't really see it, but right in

the middle of Midtown Manhattan, could not be a better address arguably, the Museum of Modern Art.

We are continuing our run of Summer Friday fun and since it is a Monday and a Labor Day bank holiday, we decided we would extend into that holiday

weekend.

Now, we are at the Modern Art Museum, the Museum of Modern Art, and in fact, I think I am going to -- I think many of our people who are here

think I am an art installation here to see looking at this and I stand and wave and can appropriately.

We are being with company here, among the greats, Van Gogh, Picasso, Mono (ph) are all within these walls and now you can have an original QUEST

MEANS BUSINESS.

Well, to understand how MoMA works, I went back to the very beginning.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

QUEST (voice over): MoMA, the Museum of Modern Art.

And it was born in turbulent times when MoMA opened days after the 1929 Wall Street crash. MoMA's idea was simple. New York needed a museum focused

on the art of today, not that ancient stuff.

GLENN LOWRY, DAVID ROCKEFELLER DIRECTOR, THE MUSEUM OF MODERN ART: This institution, when it was founded in 1929 by three extraordinary women and

Alfred Barr as its young director actually had a global perspective.

Among the first exhibitions here were exhibitions of Mexican art, exhibitions of American primitives, exhibitions of subcontinental Indian

art.

QUEST (voice over): The idea has caught on and within three years, MoMA had outgrown its original home in a 12th story apartment, moving to a nearby

town house and its permanent home steps for New York's Fifth Avenue.

The greatest artists of the 20th century hang on these walls. Jackson Pollock, Jasper Johns, Andy Warhol -- they've all made their names on the

walls of the MoMA.

Today's artists use the MoMA as a launching pad, taking careers to new heights.

LATOYA RUBY FRAZIER, ARTIST: I was stunned when MoMA reached out to me to offer me the exhibition. It was FDR who was on the radio who talked about

the purpose and the mission of the Museum of Modern Art, and he distinctly pointed out that first of all, art belongs to the people.

FRANKLIN D. ROOSEVELT, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Friends of the Museum of Modern Art, the mission of this museum is plain. We are

dedicating this building to the cause of peace.

QUEST (voice over): Today, this museum is considered the epicenter that the modern art world and it is a position the director, Glenn Lowry takes very

seriously.

LOWRY: I worry about every. I worry about whether anybody will show up at the museum in the morning. Literally, will people bother to come to the

museum? I worry about whether it is going to rain or not, because when it rains, more people come to the museum.

So I am one of those people that looks at a sunny day and goes, oh, no, not another beautiful day. because I know -- I know that if its bad weather,

more people will visit the museum.

QUEST (voice over): Over its 95-year history, the MoMA has weathered many storms.

A devastating fire in the late 1950s wiped out some of its prized treasures.

REPORTERS: Many others are scooted to safety by employees undaunted by now fire.

QUEST (voice over): And recently, the MoMA has undergone expansions, relocations, and renovations galore.

LOWRY: So I think the institution not as a fixed entity, imagine the British Museum, or The Louvre, or The Metropolitan, they are historical

institutions, their responsibility is to tell this very long story in a very measured and ordered way.

We are a work in progress.

QUEST (voice over): Perhaps that is the beauty of The Museum of Modern Art, always changing, always reinventing itself much like the art that fills its

galleries.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

QUEST (on camera): The one thing you can say about New York, of course, it is a pretty crowded place when it comes to museums and not just any old

museum, but first class, world-class museums.

So within just a couple of miles from where I am, maybe even if it is that, you have The Guggenheim, where we, of course have broadcast from. You have

The Met, where we have been, The Whitney, and now we add to that list MoMA, they are just the principal ones and you can see the tight nature of them

all in such a short, few blocks from each other.

So how to stay competitive and relevant when the competition is so strong? I spoke to the director of MoMA and asked about his neighbors.

[16:20:05]

Glenn Lowry told me competition was healthy, but then he would say that.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

LOWRY: Well, we are in competition with each other, but we are friendly rivals. We are not cutthroat in the sense of having to win some

competition. What we are, however, is extremely cognizant that we each offer the very same donors different possibilities and different

opportunities.

Many of our donors are also major donors to other museums in the city and elsewhere in the country.

QUEST: Can you compete when pieces come on the market? Not with the traditional museums, but I am thinking of obviously with private funds,

particularly the mega rich in the world, and then you've got the museums of the Gulf, the art galleries of the Gulf and those of China, which seemingly

have unlimited funds.

LOWRY: So we can compete. It is not easy, but we are in a very fortunate position where we already have an extraordinary collection from the late

19th Century through most of the 20th Century.

So when the hyper expensive works of art, which often tend to be works from the last hundred years as opposed to, of the very moment, we don't need

that many to continue to amplify our collection.

But when they do come up, we have the capacity to de-accession, which is a fancy word to say, we can sell works from our collection.

QUEST: Which you've done.

LOWRY: Which we do on a fairly regular basis to buy other works of art. We don't sell those works of art to support operations or salaries, we sell

those works of art in order to buy more art and what that means is, we have this enormous resource that we can turn to when there are critically

important works of art that we feel are essential to the museum.

QUEST: I am feeling a little bit guilty -- guilty pleasures because I am heading straight for the famous stuff.

LOWRY: Our "Starry Night." You can't do better than that. One of the most extraordinary paintings in our collection, maybe one of the most ordinary

paintings anywhere in the world. People literally come here from all over the world just to see this picture. Why? Because it is so intensely

beautiful and mystical and painted with these really heavy fixed strokes.

And you, sense the energy, but you also sense Van Gogh's ability to see into the night, not the night, but into the night.

QUEST: You just want to stand there and be sucked into it, aren't you? Particularly in the art world where people will sort of want to talk about

the artsy-fartsy, but the reality is, you've got to keep the lights on, you've got to get the things on the wall, and you've got to get people

giving you money so you've got to keep -- you can keep the whole thing going.

LOWRY: There is no question that running a museum has a business-like dimension to it. We don't do it for the business side, we do it actually

for the art side, but in order to have this Cezanne on the wall, in order to have the capacity to think about how to display this Cezanne requires a

curatorial staff, it requires a conservation staff, it requires lighting designers, exhibition designers, a host of people have to come into play

and they need to be supported somehow.

And those lights need to be on, and that requires the capital to do it and to do it well.

Part of what we do is about seduction. We want you to come in and first of all, enjoy, discover, have pleasure in looking at art, but we also want to

challenge and make it an experience that is about thinking and about learnings.

QUEST: I've got a lot of this in my garden.

LOWRY: Yes.

QUEST: They are all rubble.

LOWRY: A bit of rubble. but, you know, a little bit of rubble squeezed and played with suddenly becomes something else in the hands of an artist like

Duchamp.

QUEST: Yes, why is this art?

LOWRY: Because the artist says it is art. But also --

QUEST: No. Why did you give it a stamp of approval to say it is art?

LOWRY: Because it is curious, it is strange, it bends your mind. It makes you think. It is awkward. It forces you to ask that very question. Why is

this art?

QUEST: So I am going to ask you the same question that I asked, your counterpart at The Met.

On the day that you retire, the board of trustees says, he has been here for more than 20 odd years. Good man. Excellent. We are going to give him

either the original or the replica of any piece in the collection. What piece are you going to take home with you under your arm that the guard

won't find.

LOWRY: So that is like asking a parent which child does he prefer, right?

QUEST: Yes.

LOWRY: It is on Monday it is this one and on Tuesday, it is another one. I, from a very early age was enamored with, Cezanne. So I happen to think of

Cezanne as one of those mind-bogglingly brilliant artists and we happen to have a number of extraordinary Cezannes.

[16:25:04]

But I think I would walk home, if I were so allowed with Boy With a Red Vest, a remarkable portrait that Cezanne made one that was owned by David

Rockefeller, and my -- I am the David Rockefeller director of The Museum of Modern Art, because David was one of the great patrons of this institution.

He was one of those people who believed in the future.

And so that painting for me is not only extraordinary because it is a Cezanne, because it is one of Cezanne's finest portraits. It is

extraordinary for me because of its relationship to someone who means so much to me and who has meant so much to this institution.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

QUEST: I am told that the man in the red vest or Boy in a Red Vest is not on display at the moment, I wonder if the director, you know, just sort of

is now hanging it on his kitchen wall.

You know, when you come to a place like this, it is fascinating because on the one hand, one can see great works of art right across the range, and

then I can now see great works of art and think I wouldn't want that on my wall either, but that's the beauty of modern art and MoMA does it arguably

better than many, even better than most.

And for artists like MoMA great, LaToya Ruby Frazier whose work is on exhibition. Now, she brings together what current events, elections, and

the whole panoply of what is happening at the moment. She says elections play into her art.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FRAZIER: This exhibition helps viewers to see how diverse and culturally rich that this nation actually is and I want to be on the right side of

history to usher in that vision for this country, along with the backdrop of this current political election.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ASHER: Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy says the offensive in Kursk is going to plan. On the home front though, Ukraine is facing intense

Russian missile attacks.

Fred Pleitgen reports on a rapidly changing war.

[16:30:09]

Jjjj

[16:30:00]

ZAIN ASHER, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: President Volodymyr Zelenskyy says the offensive in Kursk is going to plan. On the home front, though, Ukraine

is facing intense Russian missile attacks. Frederik Pleitgen reports on a rapidly changing war.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Monday morning, right before dawn, a massive barrage of Russian missiles

targeting Ukraine's capital. Air defenses able to shoot down most of the incoming rockets, but some clearly impacting inside the city. Russia

attacking Ukraine's largest cities, just as millions of children were set to go back to school for the first day of the new term.

MARTA, STUDENT (through translator): Tonight, the explosions were very scary. I quickly ran into the bathroom. I could even feel the breeze from

the impact of the explosion.

PLEITGEN (voiceover): Ukraine continuing its own incursion into Russian territory in an effort to force Vladimir Putin's army to move units away

from other front lines.

And now for the first time, CNN has obtained exclusive video showing how the Ukrainians first penetrated Russia's border. Elite mine clearing teams

secretly infiltrated and blew up minefields in the heavily fortified border area, clearing a path for the troops to get through.

But Ukraine remains both outmanned and outgunned in most areas, increasingly relying on drones to level the battlefield.

We visited the FRDM drone firm as they tested their new octocopter attack drone,

already carrying Mach bombs.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's RPG shot.

PLEITGEN (voiceover): Dropping them accurately from heights around 250 feet above ground.

Realizing the enemy's advantage in terms of numbers of people, we cannot risk people, he says. So we are working harder to have even better drones.

The drones, a major factor on the battlefields where Ukrainian forces are currently trying to stop sustained Russian advances in the east of the

country.

Russian President Vladimir Putin saying Ukraine's incursion into western Russia will not stop his armies from pushing forward elsewhere.

VLADIMIR PUTIN, PRESIDENT OF RUSSIA (through translator): Their calculation was to stop our offensive actions in key parts of the Donbas. The result is

known. Yes, of course, our people are going through a tough time, especially in the Kursk region.

PLEITGEN (voiceover): But the drone teams say they are not done yet, working on ever more sophisticated unmanned aircraft to hit the Russian

invasion force.

Fred Pleitgen, CNN, Kyiv.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

RICHARD QUEST, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: it may be a bank holiday in the U.S., but let's turn our attention to some business news. Vice President

Kamala Harris says that she will oppose the takeover by U.S. Steel. She says -- she said that, of course, in Pittsburgh today, the speech that

she's going to give and which will make it clear the reasons why that will start in just a few moments.

She is joined by President Biden. And the proposed sale of U.S. Steel has been highly controversial. The White House and Donald Trump also opposed

the sale to the Japanese. And the candidates are leaning in towards populism when taken into, of course, the various trade sanctions and

tariffs that each side says that they will impose if they are elected.

The winner in November faces a murky economy, and so we have been around these hallowed rooms and walls to put MoMA's art into the economic

landscape. Let's start with what happened the difficulties, Dali's Persistence of Memory, over the past two years. Look at the difficulties of

Fed policy, the timing of monetary policy also tricky.

And then more recently, Warhol's Campbell Soup Cans. Now, obviously in its most basic soup. Prices stabling commodities, but consumers are still

spending.

Finally, we have to end up in the Nirvana of Monet's Water Lilies. This is what Jay Powell is hoping for. Floating gracefully on the pond with the

hopes for the delicate, soft landing.

All right, they were quite good actually. Jeffrey Sachs is the professor -- is the director of the Center for Sustainable Development at Columbia.

JEFFREY SACHS, DIRECTOR, CENTER FOR SUSTAINABLE DEVELOPMENT AT COLUMBIA: How are you?

QUEST: Good to see you. Thank you for coming in here.

SACHS: It's great to be here.

QUEST: Wonderful art.

SACHS: Amazing.

QUEST: Absolutely superb. You saw where we are in terms of the economy. Where do you think we are? Soft Landing with lilies?

SACHS: I love the Monet soft landing the lilies. But I'm afraid we could have a turner ship wreck. We could have a storm ahead certainly.

[16:35:00]

QUEST: Based on what? I mean, inflation's come down, unemployment is --

(CROSSTALK)

SACHS: If you look at the normal macroeconomics, OK. The Fed is maybe helping us to get to a soft landing. But our fiscal situation is not good.

Seven percent of GDP budget deficit. It's come down a little bit, but it's going to be vast. Whoever is the next president, we're going to have a very

shaky international situation crises everywhere, war economy or footing. It's not an easy situation.

QUEST: Right.

SACHS: But what you've elegantly expressed is sort of long-term issues that the U.S. is very good at kicking down the road or burying until it's

somebody else's problem, like fiscal trade and those sort of issues.

SACHS: That's exactly the point which is we have been kicking this down the road for more than 20 years. Our debt today, 100 percent of GDP, huge

budget deficits. The Congressional Budget Office is saying it's going to go out of sight, higher than ever in history. Who does anything about it? Both

candidates. They want tax cuts. We're in a protectionist mode right now. They want miracles. Oh, we don't want this company taken over. This company

taken over.

QUEST: Let's just talk about, for example, Donald Trump has his unfunded tax cuts. Kamala Harris also has unfunded tax cuts and the price gouging.

Have you ever known any legislation on price gouging to work?

SACHS: No.

QUEST: Exactly.

SACHS: No. This is a little bit of a fall campaign gimmick. It means nothing, so I don't even take that seriously as anywhere approaching an

actual policy afterwards.

QUEST: What about these tariffs? The first thing is that's slightly disappointing in the sense of what the Democrats policies were. Highly

critical of Trump tariffs, but haven't removed them when they've had four years in office.

SACHS: That's exactly right. Because they want -- they want gimmicks and tariffs are a kind of gimmick. Oh, our jobs went abroad. But the fact of

the matter is, we're not competitive in key industries right now. That's the real point.

QUEST: But to become competitive would require what?

SACHS: A strategy which we don't have in this country.

QUEST: Long term again, Jeffrey. Long term again.

SACHS: Sorry about that. I know everyone wants the short term, but if we don't have a long-term strategy, we're not going to get to where we want to

go.

QUEST: The one thing we can look at was the infrastructure work. Do you believe that the infrastructure legislation of the Biden administration,

it's not quite on the Edwardian scale or the Victorian scale, but it's certainly rejecting the balance or not.

SACHS: If you travel abroad like I do, like you do, when you come home, you don't feel, wow, we're in the 21st century. You feel, oh, my God, what

happened? At least the escalator didn't catch fire. Maybe the elevator is actually working right now. But the truth of the matter is, our

infrastructure is decades out of date. When you go abroad, you really see what 21st century infrastructure.

So, I'm in favor that they did an early step, but I can't say that this is really solving the problems right now.

QUEST: Right. So, let's give and -- let's give and take. The one thing that you are most afraid of doing -- I'm going to ask both sides. The one thing

you are most afraid of in a Trump victory would be what?

SACHS: Truly I'm afraid of both of them.

QUEST: You can't do that.

(CROSSTALK)

SACHS: Sorry, I can't play the game because neither has a real strategy, given where we are right now. The truth of the matter is we have to

transform our economy, just putting on tariffs or saying, Nippon Steel can't buy U.S. Steel. Come on, this is not a strategy.

QUEST: But you're enjoying the art.

SACHS: I love the art. That's why it's so great to be with you.

QUEST: Good to see you as always. Thank you for coming up on a bank holiday. Very grateful. Thank you very much indeed.

Now, one artist on display here says this year's election uplifts her. And for good reasons, LaToya Ruby Frazier sat down with me and her gallery here

at MoMA, and it was quite extraordinary. The quality of her photography and what the exhibit means to her.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LATOYA RUBY FRAZIER, AMERICAN ARTIST: I was floored. I was stunned when MoMA reached out to me to offer me the exhibition. But I also took it as a

responsibility and a duty to use the photographs and this opportunity as a platform to really allow other Americans to feel, seen and heard in an

elite institution where they typically are not seen or invited. It's not normal to walk into an institution like this and see every day Americans.

QUEST: What does it mean being exhibited here?

FRAZIER: It's definitely a lifetime achievement and a dream. I think that what it does is it signals that the work that I've been making for the past

25 years is important and very useful to society.

QUEST: In what way? Describe, explain.

[16:40:02]

FRAZIER: So, the exhibition is entitled monuments of solidarity. And when you think about solidarity, it's not so much that it's a monument as a

statue or a figure of a man or a person, but that it is a monument to solidarity in terms of collective unity and how people show up for each

other. What's unique about this show is that the people direct the photographs. They choose how they want to be seen, what time, which street,

what workplace.

And then I interview them in depth, so that all of their portraits are accompanied by first person testimonies, which is very unique.

QUEST: This is somebody who keeps you grounded.

FRAZIER: Well, my grandmother, Ruby raised me Baptist, Christian, and one of the very core principles of my work and practice is faith and agape

love. And agape love is about being selfless and loving people unconditionally, even when people can't do anything for you. And I think

that is a message in this exhibition. This is a 14-year collaboration with my mother, Cynthia, my grandmother Ruby, telling the story of three

generations of black women in a post-industrial economy from a steel town that are still trying to survive amidst all of the environmental injustice

that's occurring.

QUEST: Are you uplifted by this year's election?

FRAZIER: Yes, I absolutely am. I mean, no good thing comes without a struggle, in a fight. And I do believe in the promise, the prosperity and

the hope of this country. Working class people in this country are diverse, they're beautiful, they're resilient. I know what America is. This

exhibition helps viewers to see how diverse and culturally rich that this nation actually is, and I want to be on the right side of history to usher

in that vision for this country, along with the backdrop of this current political election.

QUEST: OK.

FRAZIER: All right, Richard.

QUEST: I am yours.

FRAZIER: OK, Richard. Ready?

QUEST (voice-over): It's not every day I get to talk to an accomplished portraiture artist, so I couldn't help have my own portrait taken as well.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

QUEST: I know -- I will know I've really made it when one of those pictures is on the walls of this magnificent galleries in the MoMA. We're very

grateful to the team. Thank you to everyone at MoMA who has been our hosts here as we've had some summer Fridays not been easy with one thing and

another, but we're delighted to bring them to you.

And that's QUEST MEANS BUSINESS for this Monday, Labor Day. I'm Richard Quest in New York. Whatever you're up to in the hours ahead, I hope it's

profitable. Now I shall pose.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

END