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Quest Means Business

Trump Names Key Aides in His New Administration; Musk Endorses Rick Scott in Senate Leadership Race; Zelenskyy: Ukraine Fighting 50K Troops in Kursk Region; Spirit Suspends Haiti Flights After Plane Hit With Bullets; Rome Reconsiders Tourism At Trevi Fountain; Pompeii Is Limiting Its Daily Visitors Numbers. Aired 4-5p ET

Aired November 11, 2024 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[16:00:37]

RICHARD QUEST, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST, "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS": The markets is closed on Wall Street. The Dow, as you can see, is up 304 points. It was

the Marines ringing the closing bell today in honor of Veterans Day. There you see that -- we missed the gavel, which is a shame. I'd like to see a

Marine do the gavel to see what a firm gavel it was. But that's why there's a lot of uniforms on the podium at the New York Stock Exchange.

And a very -- as you can see from the market, it was up and it stayed there throughout the course of the session. Those are the markets and the main

events.

A new week and more appointments and choices from Donald Trump. This time two immigration hardliners.

Gunfire hits a Spirit Airlines plane which is trying to land at Port-au- Prince. Now all airlines are canceling flights to Haiti.

And the battle against over tourism. The ancient site of Pompeii will start capping visitors' numbers.

We are live in New York. A new week, you and I together. It is Monday, November the 11th. I'm Richard Quest and I mean business.

Good evening.

Donald Trump has turned to some of his staunchest allies for key roles in his administration. Today, it was Stephen Miller, his top immigration

adviser, who has announced to be the deputy White House chief-of-staff for policy or is expected to be.

Mr. Trump has named the immigration hardliner, Tom Homan as his border czar. Now Homan was the acting head of ICE, the Immigration and Customs

Enforcement, the bureau that enforces the immigration rules and laws in the last administration.

On some other appointments, these are -- well, these are more choices that have to be confirmed. Two fellow New Yorkers, the congressman, former

Congressman Lee Zeldin to run the EPA, the Environmental Protection Agency, and Elise Stefanik to serve as US ambassador to the United Nations. Those

positions both have to be confirmed by the Senate.

CNN's Steve Contorno is in St. Petersburg, Florida.

Now, Steve, the interesting thing here is and when we look back at eight years ago, there had been one or two appointments, yes, chief-of-staff and

I think, one a senior adviser, but nothing like the sort of direction and certitude with which we are seeing this time around.

STEVE CONTORNO, CNN REPORTER: That's right, Richard. And you are seeing Donald Trump's priorities that he pitched throughout the campaign becoming

a focus of his early picks for filling out his administration.

Stephen Miller was the architect of his immigration policies during his first term, and Tom Homan was the enforcer of those policies, and you are

also seeing him fill out an EPA job with Lee Zeldin, that has been a top priority of Trump as well, unleashing America's energy as he has put it on

the campaign trail.

And then Elise Stefanik taking over potentially as UN ambassador. Donald Trump has a very different vision for America's relationships with the rest

of the world in a second term. He is more critical of our allies and often complimentary of our adversaries and Stefanik will be the face of that

effort.

QUEST: It is not immediately clear, besides being you know, extremely clever, but it is not immediately clear what Stefanik's qualifications are

to actually be that particular role.

The others arguably, they've experienced it. They've been in those jobs, but this is a strange one.

CONTORNO: Sure, I guess it is fitting with how Trump has filled that job in the past, though. His previous pick was for UN ambassador was Nikki Haley,

who her previous experience was being the governor of South Carolina. That doesn't necessarily lead you to become someone who can lead, you know, the

US policy on the international stage.

You know, for most part, Donald Trump wants people who are aligned with him, who are loyal to him and will carry out the interests that he has laid

forward and Stefanik is someone who has been an ambassador for Trump to Congress, and now she will do that on the international stage.

QUEST: So take us into waters that we don't know the answers to, if you'd be as kind.

[16:05:10]

Sec State, Sec Def, Treas Sec, the biggies -- any thoughts, any words that we might see those big ones.

CONTORNO: I think those will play out over the course of the next week. We are seeing this be a much more deliberate process than it was eight years

ago, when if you recall, Donald Trump was sort of parading people through Trump Tower in Manhattan, where people had to, you know, come and kiss the

ring and it was sort of like a very public airing of "The Apprentice," but Cabinet edition.

This is being done and orchestrated by his chief-of-staff, Susie Wiles who is coming over from being his campaign manager. She is running this

transition. He is taking advice from individuals like Elon Musk and RFK, Jr.

But for the most part, Donald Trump has known exactly what he wanted to do and who he has wanted to put in place since the day he left office four

years ago. He has been looking forward toward this moment and readying himself for it, which is a different posture than eight years ago.

QUEST: You know, it is a very good point, Steve. I am grateful. You and I over the next four years will talk many times on these issues.

Thank you.

Steve was talking there about Elon Musk, who is very firmly in the lead waded now into the Senate leadership race. Mr. Musk, who is also the

world's richest man, is now backing the Florida Republican Rick Scott for the top job in the Senate.

Multiple sources say Musk is wielding vast influence on the transition team. Musk has been seen at Mar-a-Lago almost every day since the election.

He has been in the room when world leaders have phoned Trump, and Musk himself is not expected to take a formal role in the administration for

good reason. There are numerous conflict of interest issues that would have to be reconciled, including divestment of companies, assets, all sorts of

things before he would be allowed under the government ethics rules, the potential for conflicts. Just look at them.

First of all, you've got Tesla. It is a public company, so you've got to be very careful what you say at the stock exchange, the SEC will be in there.

SpaceX has government contracts by the galore, NASA and the like, so you've got to be very careful what you say there. X, the public square for debate.

The FEC, a whole range of organizations will claim you've got to be very careful there.

Put those together, and Daniel Weiner is with me who is a senior counsel at the US Federal Election Commission.

I mean, the level of potential conflicts is huge, which is a very good reason why Musk would not want to have to divest or to be subject to the

tightest of regulations.

DANIEL WEINER, BRENNAN CENTER FOR JUSTICE: Yes, well it is a pleasure to be with you. I am no longer at the Federal Election Commission, I will say, I

am at the Brennan Center for Justice, but I was -- I was there. I just want to make sure that I am not speaking for the US government now.

But yes, the reality is, is that Musk as a donor played an unprecedented role in this campaign, and now he is playing an unprecedented role in the

transition, and I think what people have to remember is there are a lot of ways to exercise influence that go beyond actually taking a role in

government.

And I think that's what you're going to see here, because, as you said there are a range of laws governing actual government officials, not the

president himself, but those who work for him. And that would involve divestment businesses and the like, which I think is very unlikely.

Interestingly, there are also some ethics rules for the transition itself that were signed into law by Donald Trump, of all people, but so far, you

know the transition has not implemented the ethics plan that is required by law.

And so we will see if that materializes.

QUEST: Look, Daniel. Here on QUEST MEANS BUSINESS. You are amongst friends. We are men and women of the world who understand that the way things

operate, and we know that there are CEOs, there are union leaders in some cases who will exercise influence. That is the natural course of the sort

of democracy we have.

But this is on a different scale, because here you have a core key CEO actually almost embedded. Now, Howard, you could arguably say Howard

Lutnick is the same, but we sort of know that's a public company. We know Cantor Fitzgerald. We know where he is coming from.

Musk is a different animal.

WEINER: I think that that's right and I also think that while every administration has had major donors and the like who exert a lot of

influence, I do think that this is on a different scale just the degree to which Musk was aligned with the President-elect's campaign, the degree to

which the president-elect relied on donors like Musk and a few others when his actual donors to his formal campaign kind of disappeared.

[16:10:17]

So, I do think that this is different and ultimately, it is going to play out not in a way that is going to be super easy for the public to track,

because again, I think a lot of these people are going to take formal government roles.

QUEST: And of course, the two memoranda have yet to be signed, I believe. Forgive me if I am wrong --

WEINER: Right.

QUEST: One with the Biden administration and one with the GSA. I mean, that's sort of the bogs and the drains and the computers and all of that

sort of stuff, but the transition can continue until they are signed. What happens?

WEINER: Well, you know, the reality is the memoranda are very important because that is what unlocks things like briefings and the process for

security clearances, but here is the reality, Donald trump is the next president of the United States, and he is going to become president.

And while there are some of these ethics rules, those memoranda for the transition, it is not really clear how you enforce them. They are pretty

weak.

So the reality is, the transition ends up being something of a black box and that's what we are seeing. Media reports of who is having influence,

but we don't know for sure.

It is clear though Musk is playing a huge role.

QUEST: Are you comfortable with that role?

WEINER: You know, I can't say that I am. I think that ultimately, what we want is that we want every presidency to be representative of the American

people and to have a few persons exerting this much influence, it is troubling.

QUEST: Right.

WEINER: We will see you know, on the other hand, the American people elected Donald Trump. He is running the transition that he wants and

ultimately what people are going to have to judge are the results, but these results are going to be shaped by who is exerting such a powerful

voice right now in shaping the incoming administration.

QUEST: Yes, Daniel, thank you. Forgive me, I was sloppy in leaving off a few eses and things, and you should, of course you were the senior counsel

at the US FEC, and you're now the elections and government program running at the Brennan Center for Justice. So I apologize.

I am not sure whether I promoted you, demoted you, moved you, gave you a different job or whatever, but whatever it is, I didn't intend to.

WEINER: Not a problem. It was a pleasure to be with you.

QUEST: Well, be careful saying that, sir. You'll be back before we are finished. We've got years to go on this. Good to see you, sir.

So to the markets and Wall Street holding on to its post-election gains. Record highs. Look now, 44,000, we came through and fell back on Friday.

But now, we are there, we are holding.

Above 6,000 on the S&P, essentially a flat market. The S&P again essentially flat.

Many economists warned before the election that Donald Trump's proposals could reignite inflation. Voters backed him anyway, regardless of the

tariff warnings and the crackdown on immigration. which leads me to turn to Joseph Stiglitz, the Nobel Prize winning economist who joins me from New

York.

Joe, now look, come on, let's not rehash, let's not rehash the result per se but, Joe, let's just actually say, I mean people like you wrote letters.

You put things in the adverts, you came on programs and the electorate rejected it in a sense. They knew what they were getting and they're happy

with it.

JOSEPH STIGLITZ, NOBEL PRIZE WINNING ECONOMIST: They will have to live with it, that's for sure.

What we don't know is the extent to which Trump will live up to his promises. We do know if he does live up to those promises, there is going

to be some economic problems.

If there is the magnitude of restraint on immigration and deportation, if there are those hundred percent tariffs on China and tariffs on our allies,

without big carveouts, if there are those massive deficits, his tax cuts that the billionaires and corporations result in, our economy is going to

be going through a wringer. There will be higher prices --

QUEST: But you see, you won't see that in the four years -- arguably, you won't see much of it in the four years unless the markets get spooked on

debt. I agree, if it is tariffs, that might be. But if its debt, this market has a capacity for ignoring the man walking in front of it with a

red flag on debt that's legendary.

STIGLITZ: You're right about that. But there are two things that it can't ignore so quickly.

[16:15:03]

One of them is that the Fed, seeing the tariffs if they are actually imposed, seeing the restrictions on immigration and the deportations, if

they actually occur, it would be hard for a responsible Fed not to ignore the inflationary impulse that that would give rise to.

And that would mean it would raise interest rates possibly quite significantly and the market won't be able to ignore that.

So, yes you're right, it may be able to ignore the actual deficit estimates you know, $7 trillion over the next 10 years, but it won't be able to

ignore what the Feds' response will be.

QUEST: I can hear some viewers saying, and I am sure you've heard worse in your years, sir. I can hear some viewers saying, well, it is just sour

grapes. All of those Democrat leading economists now predicting financial Armageddon. Well, they would say that, wouldn't they?

STIGLITZ: Well, it is interesting, I think if Trump had his way, he has already expressed that he would like to get rid of the head of the Federal

Reserve, the head of the Federal Reserve said he is not resigning. We could be getting up to a little conflict here and that itself will be unsettling.

But I think our laws are pretty strong that you can't remove the chairman of the Federal Reserve without cause and I think it is going to be hard to

do it through Congress even if he controls it, the nature of the vote, so - -

QUEST: When you get to a situation -- sorry.

STIGLITZ: Go ahead.

QUEST: When you get to a situation like this where something that you feel very strongly about and the conventional view on tariffs is exactly as you

say, it is going to be inflationary, it is going to hit ordinary people, it is going to be bad for people's cost of living.

Do you get frustrated when you see that the electorate has decided something completely opposite?

STIGLITZ: Yes, I do and I also get frustrated obviously, you know, and I try to keep away from sour grapes, but I also get frustrated with the fact

that so many Americans thought the economy was in bad shape, and when you look at it objectively, unemployment was very low. We got -- inflation was

down to a level that was targeted. Nobody thought, few people thought it was going to be possible to go from that high level that we had post

pandemic, post Ukraine war so quickly down.

So in many -- in terms of the standard macroeconomic indicators, we are in good shape, and yet many of the electorate thought the economy was not in

good shape.

Now, I am worried about one aspect of the economy which is inequality and the tax cuts, the design of the tax cuts that we had in 2017 where a

disproportionate share of the benefit of the tax cut went to the billionaires and to the corporations, and didn't trickle down to ordinary

Americans.

I am worried that we are going to get another version of that.

QUEST: Professor, as always, you will have an invitation, a standing invitation to talk to us on QUEST MEANS BUSINESS. You've been courteous

with your time in years past, and I beg for the same in the future, sir. Thank you for joining us tonight.

STIGLITZ: I look forward to it.

QUEST: Thank you.

Coming up, it is QUEST MEANS BUSINESS from New York. How Donald Trump's second term is already impacting the global climate goals.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:21:49]

QUEST: Ukraine says it is holding back nearly 50,000 enemy troops in Russia's Kursk Region. A US official says the Kremlin has amassed the

troops including some from North Korea to push Ukraine out of Kursk. Kyiv's held ground there since a surprise counteroffensive over the summer.

The two sides exchanged a record number of drone strikes over the weekend. Ukraine's attack on the Moscow region is the largest since the start of the

war.

Now, Nick Paton Walsh got a firsthand look at the type of drone warfare earlier this year. He was embedded with an evacuation unit in Ukraine when

the drones approached.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT (voice over) As we wait --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Drone.

WALSH (voice over): They hear a buzzing noise.

I think they can hear a drone here. It is so hard to tell with the wind and the trees and the artillery, but that's a constant threat for them now.

Then our security adviser spots it. They raise their weapons --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I (bleep) it up?

WALSH (voice over): But will firing make them more of a target?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What if it is ours?

WALSH (voice over): Three drones, one large one that hovers and two small ones whizzing about.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

QUEST: Nick, everything I've heard from those who go through this, who've been to the front says that the use of drones has changed the dynamic in

this war, if for no other reason than for people like yourself. I mean, these drones can spot your heat, but -- your body heat message. It has

completely changed the way this war is being fought. Is that right?

WALSH: Yes. I mean, look, we first started seeing the use of very cheap often DIY built drones late last year. I remember the extraordinary

targeting that the Ukrainians first did with things they built, frankly, off the internet from China, almost Meccano type sets.

You remember those kind of ratcheting together metallic parts, gluing on extra batteries for longer life to increase their range, and then clamping

onto the bottom of that often with just simple zip ties as rocket propelled grenade warhead, and then firing that at the enemy. The advantage is, very

accurate. You can see exactly where you're going and who you hit, very cheap. I mean, some said to me about a 15th of the cost of an artillery

shell and incredibly accurate as well.

And that has massively transformed because the Russians have mimicked that. In fact, one drone unit I spoke to said they were struggling to buy parts

from some of the Chinese websites they used because the Russians had worked out what they had been using and bought everything that they possibly could

en masse.

And so we've seen this extraordinary competition between both sides, often using Starlink to guide the multiple devices in an air at the time,

transformed, Richard, your ability to be around frontline positions in the daytime, that is what is so extraordinary.

QUEST: So where does it go? Since both sides are now ramping up drone coverage and we've got this word, of course, supposedly that France and

Britain may be pushing the US to allow Ukraine to use longer range missiles into Russia, what do you think is the next stage in this war between now

and the new administration in Washington?

[16:25:02]

WALSH: I mean, the drone warfare ultimately, one side will work out how to disable drones in an effective fashion, and that will massively reduce the

threat. In fact, when they pushed into Kursk, it did seem like the Ukrainians were not that worried about drones. So maybe they are slightly

ahead in the game in that direction.

You talked about longer range missiles while the Ukrainians, because they haven't got that permission to fire US and western supplied missiles deeper

into Russia, have been using longer range drones to great effect to target Russian infrastructure.

What's next in the war? Well, you'll see these two sides hit each other with drones at an increasing pace as they try and show their reach. The

Russians using Iranian supplied devices, some of their own homemade things as well and the Ukrainians doing remarkable things frankly, in terms of the

range they're firing into Russia.

What next? I think we will see the Russians try and push the Ukrainians out of Kursk. That is essentially to give -- to take away from Kyiv one of its

key bargaining points in any peace negotiations that follow.

I think we will see Ukraine make a very loud and vivid case as to how it is suffering on the frontlines right now, and how urgently it needs weapons'

supplies to continue, and also this weird rhetoric they're using, suggesting that Donald Trump is a man of strength essentially saying don't

give in to Vladimir Putin.

But a lot of noise, but this all really leads somewhere and I think that that is at some point, we will see some bid to see this war ended through

negotiation in the months ahead. How fast that is, what terms that comes through? That is something unfortunately, I think at the moment we don't

know much about, but likely, it is beginning to form as an idea in the mind of Donald Trump and those around him -- Richard.

QUEST: Oh, don't worry, we will talk to you about what it might be next week. So start reading up on the various proposals and possibilities.

Always good, Nick Paton Walsh. Thank you very much for the insight on drones. I appreciate it.

Now, climate leaders at the COP 29 talks in Baku. It is an ambitious finance commitment at this year's summit, $1 trillion a year if you will.

It will be sent by wealthy countries to help developing nations build clean energy and adapt to the impacts. It comes as support from a key player is

in doubt.

President-elect Trump has campaigned on a promise to reverse regulations, promote fossil fuels, and withdraw again from the Paris Climate Accord.

Bill Weir, our chief environment correspondent.

Bill, you and I can speculate to our hearts content. Will he, won't he, this, that, or the other? I have a much more simple question. If the US

does, a bit more speculation though, if the US does withdraw from Paris, again, does that completely screw over COP?

BILL WEIR, CNN CHIEF CLIMATE CORRESPONDENT: That's a good question about COP. I don't think it screws over the momentum of what the COPs are hoping

for. That is this clean energy transition, both in the United States and around the world, has real juice behind it.

Tens of billions of dollars in private money chasing the Inflation Reduction money here in the United States, a lot of that in red states,

Republican states are seeing the fruits of all of that. But it is a good question about the entire process.

There was already really a souring from climate activists and others who think that the COP has been captured by fossil fuel interests and green

washers. There is very earnest delegates there though, tens of thousands of them trying to find a consensus around these sorts of things.

But when the biggest player of all, the United States, the one with historically, the most contributions to the problem pulls out, it just

makes a really difficult job that much harder.

QUEST: Isn't this exactly the situation that now exists? It is exactly what allied countries -- EU, Latin America, Asia -- they all feared was going to

happen. When the Biden administration sat down, no we're back. We are back. And everybody said, oh, for how long? What happens if? And the Americans

said, oh no, don't worry, were back. We are back. I mean, this is exactly what everybody said.

Now, they're all going to turn around to Biden at this COP and say, I told you so.

WEIR: I told you so, right? And it may influence those leaders from Africa to South America who are on the fence about fossil fuels and could tip from

countries like Kenya. They can go either way on their energy sources, depending on the financing.

This one was supposed to be also about kicking in for developing countries. Joe Biden promised $3 billion last year to those developing nations who

didn't really contribute to the problem, but have to brace for it now and do we think Donald Trump is going to pay that check?

We just learned that he is announcing that his pick for the head of the Environmental Protection Agency in the United States is a former

congressman named Lee Zeldin, who gets a woeful score from conservation voters. Most of his congressional career was voting against any sort of

environmental protection.

Now, running the agency there, which seems to indicate another term like the first in which he tries to gut as much of this regulation. But the

fight from states like California, from big cities where 70 percent of the GDP is created, that will continue, at least those leaders are pledging it.

QUEST: We need to talk more in the weeks ahead, particularly during this transition period. I am really interested.

Look, clearly, none of these people on the other side of the climate people want their children to live in a hellhole. So they must have a view that's

different. We need to talk about that next time round. Thank you, sir.

WEIR: You got it.

QUEST: I am grateful.

WEIR: All right.

QUEST: Gunfire hitting a Spirit Airlines flight as it descends into Haiti, in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

QUEST: Gunfire hit a Spirit Airlines plane as it came into land in Haiti and a flight attendant was injured when the plane took evasive action. The

Port-au-Prince flight diverted to the D.R. All flights in and out of Port- au-Prince have reportedly been suspended. You're talking about Spirit, American Airlines, JetBlue, Haitian Airlines, Sunrise, all suspended or

cancelled.

Mary Schiavo is in South Carolina. At one level, it's quite difficult to do serious damage, unless you hit the, you know, the fuel tanks. But at

another level, it's quite easy, because if you hit the fuel tanks or you hit a control surface. This was horrible.

MARIA SCHIAVO, CNN TRANSPORTATION ANALYST: That's right. And at any point, if you hit the plane, then the plane has become damaged. And of course,

that plane has to be grounded. So even if you don't harm the people which is always a danger, you take the plane out of service. So, it's very

dangerous for airlines to operate in this condition, obviously.

QUEST: I was surprised that so many airlines are still flying in there.

SCHIAVO: I was too. I agree with your surprise. I mean, the airport was closed back until May because of gunshots and gunfire upon aircraft. And

then a couple weeks ago, a helicopter was hit. And Spirit just started re flying again. But when I looked at the full list of airlines, I was

surprised how many flights in and out and not just from the United States from other countries going in there, such as Air France.

So, but at this point, obviously, airlines have announced they're trying to get them out through the Dominican Republic.

QUEST: You see, the thing about this is, of course, it's not -- it's not surface to air missiles, it's not rocket grenade launchers, it's about

gunfire. I was talking to a pilot going -- who goes into Tel Aviv, into Ben Gurion.

[16:35:03]

He said, look, it's quite straightforward. The routes are well known, you know, the great evasive things. We are not worried about going into Ben

Gurion because of Iron Dome. Now that's very different to this situation, isn't it?

SCHIAVO: Yes, it is. And looking at radar tracking, the airplane diverted about 550 feet. So, it was pretty close to the ground. And you can hit that

with long range rivals. You can hit that with hunting rivals. And the same thing many years ago has happened in the U.S. There were some planes hit

with some hunting rifles. And, you know, in the U.S. That can carry with it. It's possible that carries with it the death penalty if you endanger a

flight. So, it's very serious here -- serious, serious business.

QUEST: OK. Mary, I'm grateful for you. Thank you as always. Thank you.

SCHIAVO: Thank you.

QUEST: Let's go to Italy next. Last on the program. To Rome to the Trevi Fountain. I love the Trevi Fountain. I've been several many times in fact.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

QUEST: That is the magnificent Trevi Fountain. And this is the sheer hordes of tourists who now make their way to Rome to see it. Over tourism.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

QUEST: Now, that was my trip in 2019 to the Trevi Fountain. It's been temporarily drained for restoration. And, well, when it reopens, Rome may

introduce a ticketing system to limit the sort of crowds that you saw when I was there back then. A similar measure has been announced for Pompeii and

the historical sites. CNN's Barbie Nadal reports from Rome.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARBIE NADEAU, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The Trevi Fountain is normally gurgling with water, into which millions of tourists throw coins

each year. But thanks to a massive renovation project worth more than $300,000. That includes cleaning and scrubbing up of calcium rust and dirt,

this iconic fountain is dry.

NADEAU (on camera): You know, where the water should be is this metal walkway that is going to offer the tourists who come here. A rare

opportunity It's the first time in the history of the city that a walkway has been built to take an intimate look at this 18th century masterpiece.

NADEAU (voice-over): The walkway will also allow the city to study a proposed ticket system by tracking the ebbs and flows of the tourists

through of the day.

ROBERTO GUALTIERI, MAYOR OF ROME: By improving the experience of visitors to make a unique experience to admire the fountain to about overcrowding.

That's why there is a limit on people that can stay on this walkway, but also after the end of the maintenance working, there will be a cap one the

people that could at the same time be inside the fountain to admire it. In order to avoid the fact that overcrowding make this experience worse.

NADEAU (voice-over): Rome sees some 35 million visitors a year and around four million are believed to visit this site. The city believes that by

eventually charging a small entrance fee, they can better control over tourism and protect the ancient stone.

ARLENE SPELING, FLORIDA TOURIST: It was one of the things I couldn't wait to see and I'm sort of disappointed, but I still get to see the beauty of

it. You know, so yes, I would pay.

NADEAU (voice-over): The fountain's last cleaning and repair began in 2014 and took more than a year, but increasingly hot temperatures and a steady

growth in tourism traffic have also led to the erosion of some of the basin.

The Trevi Project is one of many conservation and renovation projects slated to finish in time for the kickoff of the Vatican's holy jubilee year

of 2025. Which will draw millions more visitors than usual to the Eternal City's popular sites. And for those who have come during this Roman

construction season, all is not lost. They can still throw their coin into this smaller basin for luck. And they're getting an opportunity of a

lifetime to see this fountain up close.

Barbie Latza Nadeau, CNN, Rome.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

QUEST: Barbie's with me now from Rome. Thank you for staying up tonight, Barbie. Quick question before we get into the nitty gritty. How many -- how

many coins have you shucked over your shoulder into that fountain?

NADEAU: Three. In almost 30 years of living here, only three.

QUEST: Only three. Well, look --

(CROSSTALK)

NADEAU: I live here, I don't need to throw it in for luck.

QUEST: OK. So, look, the reality is, this idea of over tourism, everywhere is trying different ways. We know ticketing is one option, timed entrance,

charging people, but the reality is, none of them work terribly effectively, do they?

NADEAU: No, they don't. You know, we're talking about to this new measure in Pompeii. They're going to limit the tourist -- daily tourist rate to

20,000. 20,000 is still a pretty big number. But they were reaching numbers, you know, up to 36,000 people. There are two reasons that they've

got to limit the number. One, it's just going to be impossible to evacuate that site if there's an earthquake, for example, it's a highly seismic

area.

That's one of the issues in controlling the number. The other one, there seems to be this kind of backlash since the pandemic, since all of this

over tourism to kind of get back to focusing on the quality of the visit rather than the quantity of the tickets sold. And I think that that's

something we've heard the Roman mayor talk about. It's something they're trying to do in Pompeii too.

[16:40:10]

QUEST: But if they stop -- I mean, all right. So you can either charge people in which case that's unfair on poorer people or those with less

money or you can have timed entrance. What are they going to do with all those people that can't go, but still turn up?

NADEAU: You know, I mean, I suppose there are two levels of tourists that they want here. You know, the ticket to get into Pompeii is 18 euro. To

some, that's a lot. To others, that's really a steal to get in, to a site like that. You can stay in as long as you want. You know, there are a lot

of people that just go there to take a selfie and post it on their social media. And then there are people who are staying history, studying

archaeology.

And those are the people they're trying to attract. Those are the people, you know, that are welcome in Pompeii. The people that, you know, rush

through, don't even look at anything, they're on their phone the whole time. You know, you really see that sort of difference in tourists. And I

think that the focus now is, you know, if you're going to come, make it worth it.

QUEST: Barbie, I'm grateful for staying with us tonight. Thank you so much. Next time I'm in Rome, I'm buying the gelato and the coffee, and I'll even

give you a euro to throw over your shoulder. How about that? Generosity knows no bounds on QUEST MEANS BUSINESS. Thank you.

NADEAU: OK. We'll see.

QUEST: That's QUEST MEANS BUSINESS for tonight. Before I go, I'm going to show you the quick markets. I'm going to show you the Dow, because we're up

over, it was a strong session over the Dow. We are over 300 points, over 44,000 for the first time. Holding the level, lot of green, bit of red. The

green outweighs the red. Self force number one. Merck at the other end. Whatever you're up to in the hours ahead. I hope it's profitable.

Connecting Africa is next.

END