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Quest Means Business
Controversial Cabinet Picks Send Shock Waves Through DC; The Onion Has Won the Bid for Infowars' Assets; UK Chancellor Plans Pension Megafunds to Boost Growth; Trump Picks RFK Jr. As Health And Human Services Secy.; Musk, Ramaswamy To Lead "Dept. Of Govt. Efficiency"; Preserving The Seychelles. Aired 4-5p ET
Aired November 14, 2024 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[16:00:07]
RICHARD QUEST, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST, "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS": Good evening. A warm welcome.
Breaking news to bring to your attention. A source is now telling us, Donald Trump has offered the job of Secretary of Health and Human Services,
HHS to Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
The former Democrat has become a vocal skeptic of vaccines and a variety of other public health measures. By any measure, it is going to be a
controversial decision, once it is confirmed, of course, but we are going to delve into exactly what and why.
With me is Dr. Jonathan Reiner, our medical -- CNN medical analyst. So let's delve, first of all, into what do we know about Kennedy's views and
what has given it sort of a raised eyebrow, if you will.
DR. JONATHAN REINER, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: Well, most recently, we've heard Mr. Kennedy state equivocally that in his mind, no vaccine has been proven
to be safe and effective and on its face, that's just incorrect. It just doesn't jive with the facts.
Both safety and efficacy are extensively evaluated before any medication, and particularly vaccines are approved and licensed by the FDA and there
are reams of safety data and reams of efficacy data for every therapeutic agent that comes on the market in the United States. So on its face, it is
just false.
But in the United States, that kind of doubt resonates. You know, widely. Mr. Kennedy in particular, recently has been allowed skeptic and denier of
the COVID vaccines, you know, for instance, which have been credited with saving millions of lives in the United States during the COVID pandemic.
QUEST: Now he says and in the run up to this election and thereafter, and of course, when it became clear that he was very, very much part of Team
Trump, he has repeatedly disavowed the anti-vax label. He claims he is not against safe vaccines, and he says he has actually vaccinated his children.
So I am guessing here, and this is the difficult part here that will obviously have to be pored over is you have a headline that you know,
Kennedy anti-vaxxer and a nuanced response that might make it more difficult for people to understand exactly where he stands.
And that for people like you could be very difficult when it comes to, if you will promoting a particular vaccine or a particular public health
policy.
REINER: I have not heard him articulate that some vaccines are safe and effective, that he has concerns about others. He has spent, you know, a
decade -- almost his career placing doubt in the minds of the public about the safety of these agents. He has loudly claimed that vaccines have been
associated with autism.
So if he wants to sort of rehabilitate his position, then let's -- you know, he is very quick to cite data or to cite pieces of data, so let's
have him explain to the to the United States public which vaccines he thinks are safe and effective.
When asked on CNN last month, he stated none.
QUEST: Right. And then on this question as well, fluoride for example, in water. Now look, this is one of those debates that has been going as long
as I can remember whether we should have fluoridation in the water or not. I suppose having somebody who is more against it in a sense, tips the
balance of that debate when that person does become, if they become the HHS -- the Secretary of HHS.
REINER: Right. And again, there is an abundant amount of data that proves that not only is fluoride safe in the levels that are added to drinking
water in the United States, but also that the fluoride, the fluoridization of water dramatically decreases the incidence of dental disease
particularly in young children and that has very tangible effects.
QUEST: I am grateful to you, sir. This is happening and you very kindly, as you can see, come straight from whatever you were doing with patients to
talk to me and I am grateful for that.
As always, Doctor, thank you.
Stephen Collinson is with me.
[16:05:12]
Stephen, Dr. Reiner there puts the medical sides of it, and we've got -- we have to factor it into the political side of it.
Now, we've already had Gaetz going for AG. We've got Hegseth going for Defense. This one going to HHS, we will put it in a different league.
STEPHEN COLLINSON, CNN POLITICS SENIOR REPORTER: Certainly, it seems like Donald Trump is having a competition with himself this week to make each
Cabinet pick more provocative than the last and I think to some extent, that is exactly the point.
There is a strong anti-expert anti-elite feeling on the populist wing of the Republican Party, which was sent into the stratosphere by the COVID-19
pandemic vaccine requirements and recommendations, et cetera that clashed with the political priorities of Trump and his movement. So I think a lot
of it is coming from that. I think just as with the Matt Gaetz nomination particularly, there is going to be a lot of question whether RFK, Jr. can
win confirmation in the Senate.
He is going to be out there for two months now until Trump can formally nominate him once he becomes president and there is going to be a massive
campaign against him, and we are going to have to watch four or five or six senators who could be the key people here to work out what his chances are
of confirmation.
QUEST: Is it -- bearing in mind the -- look, I know that the Senate guards its prerogatives et cetera et cetera, onwards and upwards. But is it likely
that knowing the extent of the Trump victory, the trifecta, he won, and the argument will be again and again, he is entitled to get who he wants and
certainly the strongest argument is look, Kennedy was around these, arguments were around during the election.
If you voted for Donald Trump, you knew there was a very good chance he would be at a high position in health and human services in some shape or
form.
COLLINSON: That's true and there is very little record of Republicans on Capitol Hill constraining Trump. Anyone that does try to do so faces a
massive political backlash.
At the same time however, just because someone wins an election and has a mandate that doesn't mean all the constitutional arrangements that have
been in place in the United States for nearly 250 years just go away. It is not just a popular democracy and anyone who wins can do exactly what they
want.
In the Senate, there are some senators who are going to be up for re- election in two years, who perhaps might not like to go on the campaign trail and defend picks and votes for Gaetz and RFK, Jr., for example. There
are some senators who are retiring and won't be beholden to the Trump machine and there are some senators who have just been elected who don't
have to face re-election for six years, and Donald Trump is effectively a lame duck because he is in his second term, so there is a little bit more
political insulation.
I find it hard that all of these picks -- to believe that all of these picks are going to make it through, but such is the provocative nature of
some of these that, you know by design, some of them are going to get through and were going to have people who are regarded by many experts in
their fields as completely unfit to serve in the jobs to which Trump has nominated them.
QUEST: Stephen, I am grateful.
Measured as always, sir, measured, which seems is the word in your assessment of these. I like your word "provocative," which I think I am
going to liberally steal, use, and plagiarize.
COLLINSON: Feel free.
QUEST: So, thank you, sir.
COLLINSON: Thanks.
QUEST: Thank you, Stephen Collinson.
Now, when the current president, let's not forget there is a current president who is still sitting in the White House, and he is President
Biden, he is on his way to Peru. He is going there for the APEC Summit, Asia Pacific Summit.
The first thing he is going to hear is, well, you got that one wrong, didn't you? Because at the start of Biden's term, he said quite clearly
that the United States was done with Trump's controversial foreign policies.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I speak to you today as president of the United States at the very start of my administration, and
I am sending a clear message to the world, America is back.
The Transatlantic Alliance is back, and we are not looking backward. We are looking forward together.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[16:10:03]
QUEST: Those words will stick in the throat, because, of course, the US electorate did decide to go back, and exactly what world leaders said to
Biden: What happens in four years? How can we take your word that it won't go back?
Now, it has come home to them. The question is how, for example, will he change relations with China?
Over the over the entire foreign policy issues, when you look at APEC, there will be big changes. China is the obvious one, but let's take Vietnam
for instance. The US is its largest export market and Trump's promise of widespread tariffs certainly doesn't look very comforting.
South Korea, too. Donald Trump has accused it during his first term of free riding on US military might.
You pick any one of those APEC countries -- Taiwan, Australia, Malaysia obviously, the North and South border, Canada and Mexico. We are were back,
said Biden and indeed they are.
Richard Haass is the President Emeritus of the Council on Foreign Relations with me.
Now, Richard, they are going to literally say, you said -- this is, you know, sorry, President Biden, this is exactly what we asked you could this
happen and you said, no, and look what's happened.
RICHARD HAASS, PRESIDENT EMERITUS, COUNCIL ON FOREIGN RELATIONS: Yes, he promised that America was back and instead Donald Trump is back.
This trip, as a result has an air of melancholy over it. It is Joe Biden as a lame duck, and he is not in a position to reassure. It is not simply that
he got it wrong four years ago, but he is not in a position to reassure, much less guarantee anything about the United States going forward and it
is not so much a problem for our foes. They will have to deal with American unpredictability, Richard, but it is an enormous problem for our partners
and allies, because they depend on us.
And reliability and predictability are the coin of the realm and that coin may be, in short supply in what, 70 days.
QUEST: But the president will say no, I am sorry. The typical elitist nonsense from Richard Haass and his colleagues at the Council, just what
you'd expect, to those and from Quest and the mainstream media. Don't worry. I am lumping myself in that as well. It is a big boat.
Look he will say, those who stand by us, those who support us, those who pay their way, we will be with you. But for those who freeload, those who
don't do their America first, we are not.
HAASS: Well, he will say that. But even people were to do more, and they should do more by the way, the European allies, some of the Asia Pacific
allies ought to do more, not as a favor to us, but as a favor to themselves, given the threats posed by Russia, North Korea and China.
But even with that, there is an air of uncertainty about, for example, what the United States is prepared to do on behalf of European security and
Ukraine. There is no clarity about what the United States might be willing to do or China to coerce or use force against Taiwan.
So, again, I think you're looking at a very different American foreign policy, not just transactional in our relations, but essentially more
unpredictable, which, again, is a real problem, I think, for our relationship with allies.
QUEST: On APEC, and we saw just there the countries of APEC, the pivot, the so-called pivot of a previous generation, it looks very strange now,
doesn't it, because how those countries will accommodate a more muscular foreign policy from the United States, whilst worrying about their
protection of the US nuclear umbrella. That's dangerous.
HAASS: Yes, there is a lot that's dangerous.
For a lot of these countries, they've got to think about will the United States be as much of an economic partner? Our position in APEC over, really
for more than a decade now has been hobbled by Democratic and Republican inability or unwillingness to like, to embrace free trade agreements,
that's certainly not going to change.
We are going to see tariffs and then tariffs on top of tariffs. So that's a reality. And yes, the security side of the relationship again has become a
little bit more uncertain, so for a lot of these countries, they are going to have to decide. Do they become more self-sufficient? Do they lean or
tilt towards China? Do they try to find new partners?
I think for them, it is extraordinarily disorienting. We've essentially had a world where the United States played an outsized role for, what? Seventy-
five, eighty years? We didn't always get it right, but we got it right more often than not. And I think that world is essentially coming to an end. Joe
Biden will be, I think, seen by history as the last of the post-World War II presidents.
QUEST: And if you take Europe for example, the disarray in Europe at the moment, of course, we've got the stronger right in Italy, but the worrying
part is the weakness of Macron in France with Barnier and seemingly complete collapse of the German government in Berlin.
[16:15:20]
Without the -- and by the way, in Brussels, I mean, who knows what the position is in Brussels in terms of strength and weaknesses. You know, I am
not going to Kissinger's famous line, about who do you call when I want to speak to you, but it has never been more true than it is now.
HAASS: Yes, absolutely. Europe is in considerable disarray. One thing is, what impact will Donald Trump's election have on the politics inside
European countries? Does it in some ways make it more plausible or more politically acceptable that they too move to a more populist right, I think
quite possibly.
And then also the real question is whether Europe is willing and able to step up to meet the security challenges of Russia in particular and I am
not sure.
QUEST: Richard, finally, I just want to check, you've obviously been in touch with European leaders and European decision makers, are they secretly
saying, not that they would ever say it publicly, are they secretly saying this is exactly what we feared and exactly what we knew was probably going
to happen.
HAASS: Many of them, not just in Europe, but around the world are saying that, and they've had a long time to prepare for it, but they haven't
really done a lot, and I think it was one of almost a case of collective avoidance, and a lot of them were hoping that the United States would not
go down this path.
Well, for better or worse, we have and this is -- again, this is going to be a rude awakening, I would think, for a lot of America's partners in
Europe, but also in other parts of the world.
QUEST: I am grateful to you, sir. I am grateful. Thank you.
I think we will be talking a few more times over the next few years, you will be with me, sir. Thank you, sir.
HAASS: We very well might.
QUEST: Thank you, sir.
Just a reminder of the story that we are following tonight. It is now looking extremely -- well, Donald Trump appointing Kennedy as his Health
and Human Services, HHS Secretary. The ramifications of which we will be discussing in the hours ahead. It is amongst the most controversial -- no,
I will use Stephen Collinson's words, the most provocative of appointments bearing in mind Kennedy's views on vaccines, vaccinations fluoridation in
water, and indeed the whole health agenda. Well will talk about that.
As we continue, The Onion has bought Infowars, the conspiracy site founded by Alex Jones. You couldn't make this up.
A memo from The Onion called the conspiracy, Infowars, an invaluable tool for brainwashing the masses in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:20:33]
QUEST: Infowars was the site notorious for promoting conspiracy theories has now got a new owner. It has been bought by the satirical news site, The
Onion known for headlines like "America vows to defeat whoever it is we are at war with."
"Supreme Court overturns right versus wrong."
"No way to prevent this says only nation where this regularly happens."
Now the onion bought Infowars at auction. The owner, Alex Jones, had to sell it off to pay his debts in a defamation lawsuit brought by the
families of the Sandy Hook School shooting.
Brian Stelter is with me.
There is a delicious irony in the whole thing. Absolutely, Brian. What are they going to do with it?
BRIAN STELTER, CNN CHIEF MEDIA ANALYST: This is both very funny and very serious, Richard.
It is a cosmic kind of justice, a poetic justice for these families and for The Onion, it is actually a real business opportunity.
So The Onion has been owned by different companies over the years. It was recently kind of taken out of private equity hands and bought by a group of
investors including a former NBC News journalist who is now the CEO. They are trying to grow the brand. They recently relaunched their print
newspaper, and they're going to take Infowars, and they are going to turn it into a parody of itself.
It reminds me of when Comedy Central in the United States did a fake right wing reality show where they pretended to be someone like Bill O'Reilly or
Tucker Carlson, that's what these comedians are now going to do. They're going to pretend to be Alex Jones and make fun of right-wing
disinformation. And honestly, it is probably going to drive Alex Jones a little bit crazy, you know, so that is the idea. It is all going to happen
in the next few months.
Jones is going and taking his show off to a new place, but who knows if it will ever be the same without the Infowars brand name that he built up over
the course of decades -- Richard.
QUEST: Right. But I mean, unless The Onion lot want to lose all the money they put in, they didn't pay a fortune for it. But unless they want to lose
the lot. I mean, who is going to stay with it, I suppose?
STELTER: Right. It is not going to have any of the same fans that it had before.
QUEST: Yes, exactly.
STELTER: The old Infowars was all about the deep state, the idea of darkness in government. It was about these conspiracy theories.
The new -- the new Infowars is going to be a joke, making fun of those people that believe that stuff, that buy those supplements.
QUEST: Exactly.
STELTER: But I do think there is a business model here for subscriptions. The Onion has been gaining subscribers partly by having that print
newspaper, kind of a blast to the past approach. They've also been launching a web video arm, so they are trying to make a real digital
business out of this satire and Infowars in a weird way, actually fits right in.
QUEST: Brian, I do need to throw something at you that I've not warned you about, so forgive me, but you've got broad shoulders. This RFK story,
Donald Trump appointing RFK. It is a difficult one for the media, ourselves, everybody has to cover it because on the one hand, there are
some very strong views that he has put forward. They are provocative and controversial.
But Donald Trump, you know, there are people who have legitimate views that people who agree with him, and covering that is going to be a challenge for
all of us in a sense, to balance it off between those who say the man is barking and those who say, well, how do you know that? He may be the
foreseer of the future.
STELTER: We can't compromise on facts, but we have to make room for people's feelings, and we have to recognize there are profound trust
deficits in the United States, as well as in other countries.
But here in the US, RFK speaks to that trust deficit. The people who trust him, who believe his alternative medicine theories who, believe in his Make
America Great Again mantras, they are consuming news sources and information sources that are a result of the trust deficit. These are
Americans, mostly Republicans, mostly Trump voters who have given up on mainstream media. They've given up on mainstream institutions. They simply
don't trust them at all.
And I think, the first step to being able to bridge that divide is to realize how wide it is, how big the trust deficit is. Why is someone like
RFK able to appeal to millions of people with some theories that doctors say are quacky and wacky, it is because of the trust deficit and that is
job number one for all of us to repair -- Richard.
STELTER: Brian, as always, those shoulders are broad and they can take it beautifully. Thank you, sir. I am grateful to you, Brian Stelter.
STELTER: Good to see you. Thanks.
QUEST: Now, the UK's chancellor of the Exchequer is planning to boost economic growth with what she calls the biggest pension reform in decades.
[16:25:05]
Chancellor Reeves has announced changes as part of a major economic speech she is delivering in the city of London called the Mansion House Speech.
The government wants to merge various local pension schemes creating a handful of megafunds, similar to superannuation in Australia and Canada.
The Chancellor says the move could unlock over a hundred billion dollars' worth of investment.
Anna is with me. Anna Stewart, tell me why, since all of these -- I mean, it is the same money. Where is the advantage in putting them into eight
bigger funds versus 20 or 30 smaller funds? What the -- go on.
ANNA STEWART, CNN REPORTER: I'm glad you asked because I was questioning the same thing.
I mean, obviously there are economies of scale by putting 86 small little pension funds into a handful of massive funds, economies of scale, they
have access to investments they couldn't otherwise have. They might have better fund managers, there will be less fees. There will be less admin.
But the bit I am a bit confused about, Richard, is how this is going to unlock or release $80 billion pounds, around $100 billion into the UK
economy in terms of infrastructure investments, in terms of UK businesses, startups and scale ups, because the government isn't just trying to make
the pensions better for the retirees, they are also trying to, you know, instill growth in the UK economy and they feel that the allocation will be
there, I am not so sure.
QUEST: All right, but I am just wondering, is this part of the same jigsaw? Is this a piece of the same jigsaw puzzle as revaluing the debt which will
allow for greater borrowings because she has revalued -- the definition of debt the way it is calculated, therefore she is able to -- the chancellor
is able to unlock more investment.
I don't know, it is a weird one this.
STEWART: It is a weird one.
I think you can see as maybe not necessarily relating to debt rules, but a way of trying to fund projects that the UK clearly can't finance, a way of
trying to get infrastructure projects off the ground. Whether that's what retirees and what pension managers should be thinking of, top of mind, it
is unclear, and unlike some of the comparisons we've had for instance, the Australian model you mentioned, they actually have an incentive to invest
in Australian equities.
So think about half of the equity allocation is in Australian equities because it is valuable, it is more valuable for them to do that. It is not
going to be the case here. Rachel Reeves has made very clear there won't be any mandates for UK investment. There won't be any incentives.
So you've got to question how this allocation is going to happen. It will be a huge pension fund. I think we have a comparison for you, Richard. It
will sit -- currently, it would sit around, I think top six or seven in the world. It is led by Japan, Norway, South Korea. The UK, clearly quite late
to the party in terms of doing this.
There are clear benefits to it. It is just whether or not the government is maybe a little overoptimistic on the results.
QUEST: Anna, thank you very much. I knew you'd know the answer to all of these things. Anna Stewart, thank you.
As we continue our conversation tonight, Elon Musk likes to give himself different titles -- CEO, Techno King, Chief Twit. One of our senior writers
suggests another, the Secretary of Overpromising, in a moment, plans to drastically cut government spending.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:31:27]
RICHARD QUEST, CNN ANCHOR: Donald Trump has officially announced that Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. is his pick for Health and Human Services Secretary.
HHS. The former Democrat is a vocal skeptic of vaccines and other public health measures. When he first joined the team, he said he wanted, in his
words, to transform our nation's food, fitness, air, water, soil and medicine. Sanjay is with me. Dr. Sanjay Gupta.
All right, let's turn the temperature down if we will, good, Doctor. And sort of say from what you know and what you're hearing from medical
colleagues, what are they saying about this prospect?
SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, you know, the temperature is pretty high, I would say. You know, I've been getting dozens
of emails even in the last few minutes since these announcements were made. The medical establishment is never monolithic on anything, Richard. I mean,
it's a pretty heterogeneous group. But I think with regard to this issue, they're pretty much in lockstep.
People sending me emails saying I can't think of someone who would be more dangerous to public health, clear and present danger to public health.
There's a lot of concern here.
I think the challenge a little bit, Richard, and I think you were sort of talking about this with Brian a little bit ago, is that there are some real
concerns about health in the United States. We spend four and a half trillion dollars on health care in the United States and we're not a very
healthy country. We don't have a lot to show for that. So the idea that the food that we eat, some of the toxins we ingest, some of those things do
need to be addressed more rigorously. I think that's something people do agree on.
And so there's these kernels of truth that sort of mixed in with stuff that is not just alternative facts. They're downright faults.
QUEST: Right, right. But let's just take -- let's put on to one side the vaccine.
GUPTA: All right.
QUEST: Because a lot of noise and fury is on the vaccine front, which for good reason, I'll grant you, for good reason. But if you take, for example,
food additives, diet in food, the quality of food and all those sort of things that he's been very vocal about wanting to protect, in a sense. Now,
Donald Trump, of course, will arguably say he wants to reduce the regulation. So you have an internal contradict in that sense. But a lot of
people, what R.F. Kennedy saying about the quality of food, the protection of it and that sort of thing might resonate.
GUPTA: Yes. Absolutely. I think that is the part that probably might resonate the most. He's by no means the first person to say this. People
have been saying this for a long time now. And again, when you look at that four and a half trillion dollar health care budget, 70 percent of chronic
disease in this country probably preventable, and a lot of that prevention probably in some way shape or form related to how we nourish ourselves, the
food. So that is an issue, there's no question. And a lot of people have been beating the drum on it. Maybe he will be able to draw more attention
notwithstanding this internal sort of conflict about more or less regulation around that.
Interestingly, we haven't really heard from the food industry. We really haven't even heard from the pharmaceutical industry about RFK as of yet.
We'll have to wait and see what they say.
But I think, you know, look, I think it's fair to put aside the issue of vaccines or the issue that he said the COVID virus was engineered to
specifically target certain populations, that he says that fluoride in its current concentrations are a neurotoxin. Yes. Anything can be a neurotoxin
in certain doses. But how put together is important.
[16:35:09]
QUEST: Can I just throw one here on June the 15th? He said to Joe Rogan, Wi-Fi radiation opens up your blood brain barrier, so all those toxins that
are in your body can now go into your brain. Kennedy told Joe Rogan in his June 15 episode. You know a thing or two about the brain, true or false?
GUPTA: What was the first part? I didn't hear the first thing you said. What did he say? Open up the blood brain barrier?
QUEST: Wi-Fi radiation opens it up.
GUPTA: Look, I mean, these are these things that they come out of nowhere. So I want to be careful before I speak, but let me just say this as a
neurosurgeon. We spend a lot of time trying to figure out how to open up the blood brain barrier to get medications from the bloodstream into the
brain to allow amyloid plaque, for example, from the brain to actually get back out of the brain into the bloodstream. The idea that just Wi-Fi would
do something that we have spent decades trying to do in the lab, you know, it sounds preposterous. Again, I want to be careful how I say this, and
this is the challenge in being able to report on him, is that he says things that, okay. Look, let us investigate what you're saying, because let
us give you the benefit of the doubt that maybe there is some reason that you are saying this. But so many times, Richard, it has come back to be
demonstrably false.
And again, I realize with the vaccines, that becomes the metaphor for so many things. But the idea that vaccines cause autism. Okay. That was raised
decades ago as a possibility. And it was studied in studies that involved hundreds of thousands of children in dozens of countries for a decade and a
half following these children and found not to be true. At which point do you say, hey, look, okay, we can settle some of these issues as opposed to
continuously moving the goalposts. Recently he said vaccines are not studied. They are studied.
There's pre-licensure study with the FDA before they're actually administered, and then they are followed as people take it. So you have
real world data, for example, on childhood vaccines and the COVID vaccine. But I think every time something like this is raised, the goalposts get
moved even further, which makes it really challenging.
QUEST: And I'm really glad we spoke to you today because you absolutely encapsulated why this is so difficult for everybody involved. Thank you.
Thank you, Doctor, as always.
GUPTA: Thanks, Richard.
QUEST: Thank you. Now, the other person of Course that we're closely watching is Elon Musk, who is going to become the co-head of this new doge,
the Department of Government Efficiency. CNN Senior Business Writer Allison Morrow says the tech billionaire could better known as the secretary of
over promising.
In her article, she says Musk's history of bold predictions have not yet come to fruition. She describes his desire to cut at least $2 trillion from
the 6 trillion budget could meet a similar fate. Musk may be surprised to find only 1.7 trillion is discretionary. The rest is things like Social
Security and payments on debt that you can't cut. Allison Morrow is with me now.
I read your article with great interest because it seemed to me you were trying to pull the curtain away on the Wizard of Oz and you were trying to
say that once the curtain is pulled away that regardless of his brilliance in business, a lot of what's being said simply is either not possible,
untrue or overblown.
ALLISON MORROW, CNN SENIOR BUSINESS WRITER: Absolutely. You know, I think just like Dr. Gupta said, there's a lot to be concerned about in some of
these Trump appointments that we're seeing. RFK Jr. is a perfect example.
When I sat down to write yesterday, I decided I need to kind of triage my own panic. And as a business reporter, I can talk about Elon Musk and I
know history of over promising and under delivering. And you know, that's why I'm not going to be losing any sleep tonight over Elon Musk and Vivek
Ramaswamy running a fake government department that really doesn't have any authority other than as an advisory. It's named after a crypto token that's
essentially a meme coin. It has no underlying value.
All of this is just kind of a very silly way, I think for Donald Trump to give a little bit of perceived power to a very prominent donor.
QUEST: Except if they, you know, the old. It's always said that the biggest power of all is the power of influence. And if somebody knows that you have
the power of the influence of the government, you can start to tinker away at the edges and eventually the fraying starts to pull the fabric apart.
That sort of could happen if you start tinkering with the budget.
MORROW: Sure. Well, maybe you're right. I should lose some sleep over it. But I do feel that Elon Musk has a very well documented history of making
grand promises, like for instance, cutting $2 trillion from the budget, which most economists and budget experts all looked around the room and
said, what the heck is this guy talking about? That's not something you can just do.
[16:40:18]
One economist in a story that my colleague Tammy Luby wrote today said he'd be lucky if he got 200 million. The budget is very complicated. Elon Musk
is not an accountant. He's very much a showman. I'm, you know, I got to triage my panic here.
QUEST: When I read it over my breakfast this morning, I just said to my executive, to Pamela, I said, we've got to have Allison on tonight. She's
written a brilliant article. I'm going to tweet out the link to it as well. And I'm really glad to have had you on the program tonight. Thank you.
MORROW: Thank you.
QUEST: It is Cressida's business. Iberia has ignited a new era of long haul travel. The airlines chief executive is going to be with me. The aircraft
that's changing the onboard experience. It's the A321XLR. I know. Sexy, isn't it?
But it'll go further. It is small, but it's coming to an airport near you.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
QUEST: We need to turn our attention to the world upon which we live in. And across that world, schools are helping students engage with the natural
world to inspire a new generation of conservationists.
So on Call to Earth this week, I'm delighted to show you we're joining one such school in the Seychelles. And there, the effect of climate change and
ocean pollution, it's very visible on their doorstep and there's things they can do about it.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voiceover): Sitting in the middle of the Indian Ocean, about 2,000 km from the coast of East Africa, lies the Seychelles
archipelago. The African nation is famous for their ring shaped reefs and islands known as atolls. As breathtaking as they are, these islands are
under threat.
SEDNA CHETTI, DIRECTOR OF MONTESSORI INTERNATIONAL SCHOOL, SEYCHELLES: In the last 20 years, a lot has changed. Recently, we have a lot of people
working towards conservation.
There's a lot of young people coming forward, which is why we're interested in working together with the kids. My name is Sedna Chetti. I am the
director of Montessori International School, located here in the Seychelles.
Montessori International School is a preschool for children between 0 to 6 years old. The first years of life, I think, is the most important to
everyone. That's when we're really absorbing the most and that's when we're learning the most from our environment. So for the last few days, we've
been going around with the kids to teach them a bit about our atolls and also why we need to protect it.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voiceover): As with many island nations, climate change poses major risks to the Seychelles. But they're also faced with an
even more tangible threat. A recent study estimated that more than 500 tons of marine plastic debris have accumulated on Aldabra, the largest of the
Seychelles atolls, about 1,000 kilometers southwest of Marhe Island.
CORIANNA JULIE, COMMUNICATION OFFICER, SEYCHELLES ISLANDS FOUNDATION: So we have a lot of plastic litter collected on the beaches and this is marine
debris and they have terrible effects on the ecosystem.
CHETTI: Bringing the kids out in nature, it builds a certain love and acceptance to nature. More than it is about conservation, it is also about
their growth and development and how in touch they will be as they grow older, to animals, to plants.
CAREN OTIENO, TEACHER, MONTESSORI INTERNATIONAL SCHOOL, SEYCHELLES: So today we're planting more of the Afila species in our Aldabra corner and
we're going to be planting Afila in the Wazak (ph).
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voiceover: By translocating species from Aldabra to replant here on Marhe Island, the school aims to expose its students to a
wider array of native species.
OTIENO: We bring our little Aldabra corner here.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voicover): And provide them with hands on experience in conservation.
OTIENO: We tear the plastic, then we put it in the hole. Yay.
JULIE: I think it's very important to protect the Seychelles because it's a biodiversity hotspot and species found here, we have a few that can't be
found anywhere else in the world. And it's very important to protect these last populations because if we don't, there will be irreversible damage
where we won't find them. They can go extinct.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voiceover): Such endemic species include a host of flowering plants, five types of bat, 12 globally threatened birds, and the
world's second largest species of tortoise.
CHETTI: I think we need to conserve the whole world, not just Seychelles, but because we're in Seychelles, so obviously this is the part of the world
we get to take care of. So maybe if everyone does the same wherever they are in the world, then we do get to basically live a better life, live a
better world for the future, have better quality air, better quality food, better quality of everything, really.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
QUEST: For more Call to Earth, go to cnn.com/calltoearth.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:50:44]
QUEST: A bit of aviation history was made today when Iberia Flight IB347 flew from Madrid to Boston. Well, nothing remarkable about that, you say?
Well, there was because it was an Airbus A321XLR. Not exactly the most sexy name, but it's the Airbus single aisle narrow body the XLR. It flies
further and more efficient, fuel efficient than the alternatives. With nearly 5,000 mile range, it can go all the way from London to Vancouver.
But it is a narrow bodied. And that narrow single aisle means changes on board for passengers and staff meal courses. For example, on the Iberia
flight, all served at once. Some passengers don't really like flying transatlantic in a single aisle aircraft. Of course, the 707 used to be all
like that.
Iberia's Chief Executive and Chairman Marco Sansavini is with me now. Sir, it's good to see you. I'm grateful to you.
Congratulations on the 321. And look, we've been flying single isles across the Atlantic for 15, 20 years, 757, et cetera, et cetera. What's different
and special about this one?
MARCO SANSAVINI, CHAIRMAN AND CEO, IBERIA: It is radically different, Richard, and great pleasure to be with you today.
First of all, from an efficiency point of view, of course it's a new generation aircraft, so it allows to do very efficiently this kind of
trajectory. But at the same time, and more importantly, in terms of the customer experience, it is absolutely comparable with a wide body aircraft.
Basically through the range that it has, it allows basically to reach destinations that with a wide body aircraft we could be able to reach. But
of course with a much smaller size.
QUEST: You see, that's a challenge in a sense because yes, it can do it. Get it. I get it. It can do it. But you know, the traditional 75 and the
321L would do East Coast, U.S., West Coast, Europe. But now with these 9, 10 longer flights on a narrow body, do you think passengers are going to go
for it?
SANSAVINI: Yes. Well, first of all, you have to consider as well that the range of these aircraft is bigger, in fact is 15 percent more than any
range of narrow body. So it allows routes that were impossible to reach with former generation of narrow body aircraft. And secondly, the
configuration that we have designed for this aircraft allows to have a customer experience that's absolutely comparable with the one of a wide
body.
QUEST: What's the longest run? I know you've done proving routes in Europe and I know that you've done this route. What's the longest you're going to
run this thing?
SANSAVINI: Well, in fact, the potential of these aircraft in kilometers, and forgive me for that, is around 7,500 kilometers. That means around
4,000 -- 4,000 and some more miles. It implies, for instance, that because I think the most significant impact is really for consumers.
Look, we used to fly to Washington only in the summer and only four weekly frequencies. Now thanks to these XLR321, we're capable to fly daily in the
summer and even in the winter. So in terms of opportunities that it opens up for consumers is massive the change. But at the same time, I think even
more critically, as you were stressing, is the customer experience. Just to give you an example, the traditional configuration of a business class role
is one to one on a wide body aircraft and in that aircraft is 1:1. So every single business class seat as aisle access and full flat beds. So it's
really a unique experience in this respect.
QUEST: I want to talk about in last couple of minutes we've got Iberia. Look, you've been the great turnaround of IAG in a sense over the last
five, ten years under Luis Gallego extraordinary turnaround. But where are you going to grow? You are now the southern hub in a sense for IAG and that
means expanding the reach into Central and Latin America in the future, doesn't it?
[16:55:02]
SANSAVINI: Yes. And I think what you see is that Iberia, like the IAG group is emerging from COVID even stronger. And in fact, our leadership position
with the Madrid hub to Latin America is now established in a manner that we are the leading carrier between Europe and Latin America. And just to give
you a sense of that, we are already 17 percent bigger than pre-COVID. I think this is the result of not only the transformation that you were
saying, but also the fact that through COVID, we could basically have all our teams on board. We could avoid to dismiss anybody. So through the
efforts of our teams, we're already, when demand came back with the first ones or among the first ones to rebuild capacity.
QUEST: You didn't, and I know this is above your pay grade at one level. This is at the board level. But I'm going to throw it at you anyway. You
didn't get Air Europa. Good try. You didn't get it. So TAP Portugal, is that where your sights are set? I might as well try it.
SANSAVINI: Well, in fact, you see, AEROPA was not an objective. It itself was a mean to allow basically to build Madrid as a leading European hub.
And that mean we are. And that ambition remains untouched because simply now we're using the other two main leverages we have to pursue it, which is
one side our organic growth and on the other side, the partnership.
I mean, I was mentioning that we grew already 70 percent versus 2019. And also this XLR is a great opportunity. We're bringing eight of these
aircrafts in our fleet. So our path towards building Madrid as a leading hub in Europe continues.
QUEST: Well, we'll leave the question of TAP Portugal to another day, sir. I'm grateful to you. Look forward to talking to you then. Thank you very
much indeed. We will take --
SANSAVINI: Thank you very much.
QUEST: -- a profitable moment. After the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
QUEST: Gosh, what a very busy day. And I want to show you the markets before we have a quick profitable moment because the markets have been
down. Why is it down 207 points? I hear you say. I'll tell you because Jerome Powell has been speaking this afternoon and he was giving an
interview, gave a speech and an interview, and he basically led everybody to believe that the fight against inflation continues and they're not there
yet. And the rate of cuts may not be as fast as everybody had thought, certainly not with the political situation as it's going at the moment. So
that's why the market has not been as has been down in the late afternoon.
And then you have the political uncertainty, because tonight's profitable moment, we're getting more and more details over exactly what this new
administration is going to look like. At the first blush, many of the appointees and nominees, well, some would say they're controversial. I like
Stephen Collinson's line that they are provocative.
[17:00:12]
And in handling how we talk about them, the temptation, of course, is to do the shock horror probe. But the reality is, of course, that these are men
and women who've had strong views for many years. And that's our job, is to test those views. It is not our job to say that it's right or that it's
wrong. The president of the United States makes his judgment as to who he wants.
The difficulty for many of these people is that they have nailed their colors to the mast. We know where they stand on many of the issues, be it
Gaetz on Justice, Hegseth on Defence, or now, of course, Kennedy at HHS. And that is what we will be testing in the days, weeks and months ahead,
not out of some blind nonsense, but because that is the issue at hand. What do they believe and how do they want to engage in it.
And that's Christmas business for tonight. I'm Richard Crest in New York. Whatever you're up to in the hours ahead, hope it's profitable.
JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome to The Lead. I'm Jake Tapper and we're going to start this hour with the breaking, there is a shocking news, the
latest provocative pick from presidents like Donald Trump just moments before we came on air today. We learned that he was about to officially tap
Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. to lead the Department of Health and Human Services. And just a few minutes later, he made that announcement official. Let's get
right to CNN's Kristen Holmes.
Kristen, Trump has praised RFK Jr. Throughout the campaign, especially after he endorsed him. What's the thinking behind the pick? What are you
hearing?
KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jake, I'm hearing the same thing about RFK Jr. that I had heard really across the board about
many of these controversial picks, which is that Donald Trump feels emboldened and empowered by the fact that he won the popular vote. He feels
that this has given him a mandate to actually deliver on the promises that he said he was going to deliver on the campaign trail. What's so
fascinating about this, there been much speculation about the relationship between Donald Trump and RFK Jr. particularly because many people close to
Donald Trump believed that he needed the help of RFK Jr. York to win over specific demographics, one of them being independent voters, one of them
being suburban women, because of the fact that RFK had focused so much on this Make America Healthy Again agenda, talking about vaccines.
There is a population of the United States who believes that nobody should get vaccines. RFK Jr. has perpetuated that theory, saying at times, without
evidence that vaccines lead to autism. Some of just the bare minimum of the controversial things that RFK Jr. has said. But on the campaign trail, and
Donald Trump often said that RFK Jr. Was going to lead the health agenda for the Make America Great Again administration for Donald Trump
administration. And I'm told that him, this is him delivering on that promise.
One of the things that Donald Trump has spent a lot of time doing is thanking the people around him, and that includes RFK Jr. who really spent
an enormous amount of time campaigning for Donald Trump, both by Donald Trump's side and also just by himself out there trying to meet with voters.
Now, one interesting thing I want to point out here, there was a lot of speculation that he was kind of going to get pushed to the side,
particularly given the fact that he's so controversial and many people think he can't get confirmed in Congress. And in fact, in an interview with
our own Caitlin Collins, Howard Lutnick, the head of the transition team, kind of laughed off the idea that he could be secretary, that RFK could be
secretary of HHS. And that was just a few weeks ago. And now here he is as the actual pick a lot of questions as to what this means for confirmation.
But again, when we ask those questions, I'm told that the Trump team doesn't really care.
They're aware that some of these candidates that they're putting up for nomination are not going to get confirmed, but they say they're going to do
everything in their power to try and get them confirmed. But again, this is surprising, particularly given the conversation were hearing around RFK
that it would be so hard to confirm him. They give him some kind of SAR role over all the health departments where he would be able to do some
stuff with a health agenda, but not this. And this is obviously a confirmed position or a confirmable position that he has now been nominated for.
TAPPER: So does he think he's going to get them confirmed? And how much does the president elect want to have the Senate adjourn so that he can
then just do recess appointments for them as long as he wants?
HOLMES: Well, we've obviously seen him advocating for that. I mean, these recess appointments, it's something that Donald Trump has called for. He
tried to get each of the people who are running for Senate leadership to agree to it. We saw that with Rick Scott. We saw that with John Thune
pushing this idea of recess appointments. But when it comes to whether or not they're actually going to do that and whether or not Donald Trump
believes or his team believes that these people can get confirmed, they still tell me that they understand --
END
