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At Least Two Dead, 68 Hurt After Car Plows Into Crowd At Christmas Market In Germany; Authorities: Driver Was Saudi Doctor Who Had Been In Germany Since 2006; Official: "Individual Perpetrator" Carried Out Germany Attack. Aired 4-5p ET
Aired December 20, 2024 - 16:00:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[16:00:05]
ANNOUNCER: This is CNN Breaking News.
RICHARD QUEST, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST: Good evening to you. Breaking news tonight out of Germany, where, as you may have heard, emergency services
now say up to 80 people have been hurt after a car plowed into a crowded Christmas market.
The authorities are calling it an "attack," but the exact nature or cause or motive has not been disclosed or indeed revealed.
So this is the scene tonight. It is in the city of Magdeburg, west of Berlin, a large city about two hours from the capital and according to
local reports, one person has been killed and others say that another person has been arrested.
Germanys chancellor, Olaf Scholz, says his thoughts are with the victims and the families, and before we proceed further, let me put this into
context for you.
The original video of what took place is out there in the great internet firmament. We are not showing it along with other organizations. It is
simply too awful and distressing to show.
So the next images are taken from that video, but they are still extremely disturbing. They are the social media video that shows the moments after
the attack.
If you look at that and bear in mind that those were the narrow alleyways where the people were thronged, shopping at the stalls on either side. And
what we've seen is a black car, believed BMW goes right the way down in a straight line, literally tossing people in every direction on the way.
That is what we are showing you, and we are not showing any more for good reason.
Matthew Chance is with me.
Matthew, what do we -- what are the authorities saying now?
MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN CHIEF GLOBAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, I mean, look, Richard, I mean, like you, I am monitoring this remotely. And I've looked
at that video and it is absolutely dreadful.
It shows many people at that crowded marketplace as a car drives at high speed and plows directly into them. You can see people sort of running and
scattering in all directions in panic. In the aftermath, there are bodies sort of strewn along the road. And so absolutely appalling scenes just five
days before Christmas there in that area, that town just to the west of the German capital, Berlin.
In terms of casualty figures, well that is very much a developing situation at the moment. There is confirmation of one person, unfortunately, who has
been killed and 60 and 80 people who are injured.
But, you know, the expectation is and we are in close contact with the emergency services right now, is that that that death toll, the number of
dead could well rise. But obviously we are awaiting to hear directly from the German Emergency Services who are out in force as you can imagine right
now at that Christmas market, trying to provide whatever assistance they can.
Just one last thing, the driver of that black vehicle has not yet been publicly identified, but he is apparently in police custody. And so, we are
expecting to hear shortly as well his identity. And so that might help us piece together, you know, what exactly the motive may have been for this
attack.
But I mean, as you well know, there have been attacks very similar to this car plowing into a Christmas market at other times in the past in Berlin,
in fact, in 2016, an Islamic fundamentalist from the Islamic state or representing the Islamic state or saying he was from the Islamic state,
plowed into a Christmas market in a similar way killing a dozen people and injuring many more.
And so this looks very similar -- Richard.
QUEST: Can I just interrupt you there? I am getting more information, and I would like your interpretation on this. According to the latest reports,
the police now say there is an explosive device in the attack vehicle according to MDR, the public broadcaster. This is from our own reporting.
Magdeburg Police suspect say an explosive device could be in the vehicle that has plowed and they've cordoned off the entire site because of the
possibility of explosive; obviously an explosive.
[16:05:11]
Now there are two interpretations. One is there is a device and the other is there could be, whichever proves to be accurate, the fact is, and of
course, you'll be well familiar with this, you know, there is always more fog of confusion with these facts than reality in the initial stages, but
it does look as if this has got further to go.
CHANCE: It does. But if it is indeed the case that that police have identified an explosive device in the car, well, it hasn't gone off, which
is, you know, I mean, thank heavens it hasn't gone off because if that had had gone off in a crowded Christmas market, the death toll, the casualty
figures may have been much, much higher than the ones we are currently looking at.
But it seems if that report is accurate that the police have identified that explosive device and presumably bomb disposal experts will be deployed
very quickly to defuse it.
QUEST: Now, stay with me if you can, otherwise, go back to your newsgathering duties, Matthew.
Fred is with me. Fred Pleitgen on the line.
Start with you, Fred, on this aspect that there is potential explosive device. I realize this is, pardon the phrase, it is a moving story at great
speed. So you may not have seen all the details on that, in which case we will move on. Do you know anything about this?
FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, certainly, we have heard that the police believe that there might be an explosive
device inside the car. It is unclear whether or not, Richard. This is just a precautionary measure, but they haven't been able to look into the car
yet and are just taking absolutely safety measures.
What we do know is that they have widely cordoned off the area around that Christmas market. And of course, there could be several reasons for that.
On the one hand, of course, they want to clear the area as fast as possible if there is indeed some sort of bomb in there.
But of course, as you can imagine, this is now a massive crime scene as well, where the authorities have apparently set up tents to tend to some of
the many people who were injured in all of this, because we were speaking about the fact that it is now 60 to 80 people who have been injured in this
incident.
So in general, they are cordoning off pretty much the entire city center of Magdeburg just to come to terms with the situation -- Richard.
QUEST: There are shivers as I watch the pictures because it was eight years ago to the day, but well, one day it was December the 19th that the Berlin
attack happened and I guess after eight years, even though they are always on guard for this sort of thing, an element of complacency sets in.
This is exactly the sort of thing that should -- should not have happened.
PLEITGEN: Yes, you're absolutely right, Richard. You know, eight years ago I was actually on the ground standing at that Christmas market after that
giant truck had plowed through there and that was really a devastating scene, because, you know, when you see these Christmas markets, they look
like little villages with little huts on them. But those huts by no means are able to hold up a moving car, especially one at fast pace and certainly
not a truck.
And one of the things that you realize when you're standing in these places is that for a lot of the people that are on the ground there, they have
absolutely no chance to get out of the way, because those aisles in those markets between those stalls are extremely packed, it is impossible to get
out of the way.
And at the same time, those stalls themselves don't offer any sort of protection for people trying to jump into them.
So the German authorities were very well aware that these are soft targets. And I can tell you, Richard, over the past years, since that incident
happened in 2016, in Berlin, every season, the talk has been about securing those Christmas markets, how best to do that.
There has been concepts in place to prevent exactly something like what we saw tonight -- Richard.
QUEST: One of the many, many viewers -- most viewers watching tonight will identify because although they are maybe culturally from Germany, Austria,
Switzerland and the like, the reality is its one of the most famous exports now across Europe and indeed the whole world, these Christmas markets,
which are so popular and they create this difficulty.
But in Germany, particularly, this is an awful time politically and not trying to take us into a political debate or discussion. I am trying to
create a picture of the country tonight.
PLEITGEN: I think that you make an interesting point. I think it is certainly a very valid point. You are absolutely right that right now
Germany is certainly at a time of political instability. I would almost say.
The governing coalition has fallen apart. You have the right wing alternative Germany Party, which has gotten very strong precisely for
issues like social coherence, obviously migration and other issues as well.
Certainly, things depending on how all of this plays out could be explosive for the society, depending on what comes out in the investigation, what
exactly the motivations were, who the perpetrator was of this as well.
[16:10:06]
But you are right, it does come at a very volatile time where just this past week, the German Chancellor has dissolved the government. There is
going to be new elections coming in February at a time where it is unclear for many people what exactly the dominant forces here in this country are
going to be.
So you're right about that. The security situation has also been an issue here as well. And at the same time, and I think this is very important, you
are also correct to point out, Richard, that Christmas markets are a favorite German export around the world, but also a favorite of Germans to
actually go to at 7:00 p.m. on a Friday night.
That place would have been packed with families, people coming off work, people wanting to spend their evening on a Friday night, and it is also the
last Friday before Christmas, so that would have made even a larger crowd would have been out there -- Richard.
QUEST: Fred, I am going to let you go because I know you want to get on the road and actually head out there and you've got a sort of an hour-and-a-
half two hours' drive. So I will leave you to get on with your duties. Thank you, Fred Pleitgen who is in Berlin.
Daniel Brunner was an FBI special agent, now the president of The Brunner Sierra Group.
Daniel, good to see you tonight, even though the subject we are talking about is truly horrific.
Let's start with the basics and work our way up. We don't know who. We don't know why, but I think were not leaping at straws if we say this was
an attack based on terror.
DANIEL BRUNNER, FORMER FBI SPECIAL AGENT, PRESIDENT OF THE BRUNNER SIERRA GROUP: I think you're absolutely right. Based on that very disturbing
footage that I have also seen, it is a very deliberate attack.
We've seen incidents here in the United States and overseas where a vehicle is out of control or goes through a crowd, but there is a very deliberate
act here. You can see through that video of traveling through the market and, you know, trying to take out as many people as possible. It is very
disturbing. It is very concerning.
We've had repeat attacks like this in Germany. We've had in 2017. We had the attack here in the United States, in New York City, where a driver took
out and killed eight individuals near the Freedom Tower. So there are a lot of individuals, there is a lot of concern over this that there will be
repeat attacks.
There is obviously, the German authorities who will be conducting interviews. They'll be talking to him. And obviously, I believe that there
will be an increase of security here in the United States at similar marketplaces.
QUEST: Now I also remember 2016. That turned out to be ISIL. I-S-I-L, who was behind it and that was the first indication that we got, in a sense.
We've always known these -- the vehicle as a weapon, was a potential. I am surprised tonight that they were able to do this somewhere, which should
have known better.
BRUNNER: Absolutely. And obviously there was a break in security, whether it be the security bollards, you know, to keep this exact type of attack
from occurring, something happened that the driver was able to identify the weakness, was able to drive through it.
It is very difficult to protect these type of environments. In New York City, there is Bryant Park, there are numerous Christmas markets throughout
the United States, throughout Europe. So there is an increased attention at protecting these locations.
Now identifying what his motivation, talking to him, interviewing him, looking at his cell phones, figuring out if there were -- if there is a
secondary device in the vehicle or there are other individuals also planning an attack. These are all the things that German authorities are
going to be looking at right now, trying to determine as quickly as possible and push that intelligence out to other members of the Euro law
enforcement community for them to protect, whether they are in France or Spain or England, and protecting all of those other Christmas markets in
addition to the United States to see if there is any identifying, if he was in communication with anybody here in the United States and protect US
markets.
QUEST: As I watched the pictures and I watched the aftermath, I am always reminded of the Rand Corporation's definition of terrorism, which is, what
we are seeing tonight is exactly that. It is to instill that fear of safety into the general public so that people change their way of life or their
activities, and there will be people myself, arguably; your family, arguably, who will think tomorrow, well, you know, let's -- maybe we will
go to the mall instead of the Christmas market.
BRUNNER: Absolutely. Undoubtedly, there are going to be a lot of people from all sides of the spectrum who are going to look now at markets like
this and say, maybe we will just go to the mall, maybe we will just go to a store and avoid it.
[16:15:01]
But really what people should instill is and, you know, protection that the law enforcement community provides, that FBI, local law enforcement working
hard to, you know, work on intelligence and at the same time also be aware of your surroundings. That is what I do here in my company is I make people
understand some of the threats, some of the risks and how to protect yourself.
This is unfortunate. This is a horrible attack and hopefully the death toll does not rise. But I think that undoubtedly we will see something go up,
but hopefully we are able to protect ourselves.
QUEST: Unfortunately, you spoke a second too soon, because I am afraid to say that the death toll has or the number of people who have died has
actually risen.
Daniel, thank you. I am grateful for your time. We will probably talk again before this night is through.
We now know at least two people have died in this particular attack after the incident that took place.
Sixty to seventy people are in hospital, a major event, we don't know the severity of their injuries, but having seen the video and knowing the
history of these sort of attacks, I think we all need to prepare ourselves for these, the number of people tonight who will have perished and who have
died in this attack is more than likely to rise. We will be with you. We will take you to the event. We will discuss the meaning, and well put it
all into context. Why? Because this is CNN.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
QUEST: It is now known that two people have died and more than 60 people have been seriously injured after a driver crashed into a Christmas market
at Magdeburg in Germany.
The emergency services say the incident was an attack. The exact nature, the reason, the motive -- that is unknown. It is believed one person has
been arrested who was driving the car, a Black, believed to be a BMW, that plowed through the crowd.
The German Chancellor, Olaf Scholz says tonight his thoughts are with the victims.
David Sanger is our national security analyst, and "The New York Times" correspondent. David is with me. Good to see you as always, David. I need
your help here to understand, to put this into context.
We have this attack in its rawest sense. Where does the intelligence and the -- if you will, the security forces, how does that now fan out from
here?
[16:20:07]
DAVID SANGER, CNN POLITICAL AND NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Well, from -- we don't know a whole lot yet. But what we do know seems to point toward a
terror attack, and if in fact, the reports are correct that there were explosives in the car that fortunately did not detonate from, again from
the early reports, that would have the hallmarks of the kind of terror attack that we saw in Berlin in 2016.
And as you pointed out, that one was supposed to be ISIS. It is not clear that this necessarily would be, that would be a lead suspect.
What has changed in Germany and throughout Europe in recent times have been acts of sabotage by the Russians, but those have tended not to be mass
casualty events. They've tended to go after warehouses, equipment, arms depots where they think arms are being shipped to Ukraine. And so it
wouldn't seem to be as likely for that.
And then, of course, there is always the possibility it is, you know, just somebody who has got a twisted mind and a grudge and that it is not
necessarily linked to a group and it is too early to tell that.
I suspect, since they have the suspect in custody and apparently alive, they will know that pretty soon, Richard.
QUEST: One of the most immediate worries for the authorities is determining whether this is systemic or lone wolf, so to speak. But also what could
happen by way of copycat or, you know, I mean, nothing is out of the realms of possibilities. I think we learned that this year with the audacious acts
of the Israelis in Beirut and how extreme these things can get.
Nothing is off the table.
SANGER: Yes, but I would not expect to see the German government, particularly in its current state, you know, react in a -- with much of a
lash back, particularly because it is not clear right now who it is that they would lash out at.
I was living in Germany for a few months at the beginning of the year and the end of 2023. I went to a number of the Christmas markets in the major
cities, including in Berlin. You see that -- you see the big blockades up, but when you get out into the smaller towns and smaller cities, they are
pretty unprotected. And I suspect you're going to discover that was the case here.
QUEST: So just to clarify, in case I wasn't that clear, well, I wasn't, when I was referring to the events that have taken place, I am talking
about the way in which the Israelis managed to booby trap walkie talkies and all that sort of thing, so what my point was, David, that we've learned
this year that nothing is off the table when it comes to the possibility of some form of activity or attack. That's what I was saying.
SANGER: Oh, yes. So now I understand. And yes, I mean, this has been the year of asymmetric attacks, right? I mean, what the Israelis did to
Hezbollah what that led to, what we've seen with some other terror groups.
It has also been a year in which we've seen a lot of cyber activity that has been of this nature, but this has the hallmark of more sort of standard
over the past 20 years, acts of terrorism that could either be lone wolf or somebody who is, you know, attached to a loosely formed group.
QUEST: David, I am grateful. Thank you, sir, for taking time to talk to us. I know you've got a busy night ahead, as indeed have the rest of us.
Juliette Kayyem is with me as well.
Juliette, I am guessing like David and myself and everybody else. You are familiar. You will have shopped at a Christmas market in Europe and
Germany, Austria or Switzerland or somewhere at some point, you will know the terror and awfulness of tonight's event.
JULIETTE KAYYEM, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: That's exactly right. So this is -- your just typical soft target. You can only make them so hard in
the sense that even though there have been previous attacks and fatalities at these Christmas markets, the nature of them, their openness, the stalls,
the pedestrians, the festivities make it impossible to fully secure. It appears, so far, at least one individual, we don't know if he is aligned
with anyone else --
QUEST: Right. I am going to interrupt you. Forgive me, Juliette, because I've got some facts, which is always welcome when you have a story that,
you know, as these stories develop.
So now we know that it was a Saudi doctor who was the driver, who had been in the country, I believe, since 2006. With your intelligence experience,
can you just guide me into the significance of what I've told you?
[16:25:07]
KAYYEM: Yes, he would have been -- I mean, he would have perceived himself likely as well as, by the Germans as a German, even though 2006 is a
significant amount of time. And so this is going to have a very interesting investigation aspects to it, because it will be what radicalized him either
externally or was he part of an internal plot? What was the nature of that radicalization? Was it religious or something else? And I just want to
raise that as a possibility.
And then why there? What were the elements of his motivation? So this is, you know, born elsewhere, but considered a German, given that it was almost
20 years ago that he moved there. And so they're going to be looking to ties of either international extremism or it could be online an individual
just got radicalized to do this and mimic an ISIS attack.
QUEST: You see that's -- let's just explore this for one second because this is where this is going to go.
So you have the potential for this Islamic militancy, whatever one wants to say or that Middle East connection or the Saudi aspect can be a complete
irrelevance and this could be far more about German domestic feelings that the country is well and truly off track, particularly bearing in mind
elections, immigration, and all of those stories.
KAYYEM: Yes.
QUEST: We don't know.
KAYYEM: That's exactly right. I mean, it is -- the range of possibilities, it is not endless, but it is not going to be obvious, just given who he is.
I will say you're exactly right in -- this was not a normal week in German politics.
You had the government's fall, essentially. You are now going to have different groups aiming to lead it. People, individuals become energized
and a small percentage might become radicalized because of those debates.
So this might be, you know, multi-motivational aspects to this. But obviously, his Saudi background is going to be relevant to determine
whether he had ties to any elements abroad that wanted to harm Germany.
QUEST: Juliette, can I just throw one more thing into the mix if I may, which I am not connecting tonight's attack to. Let me make that absolutely
clear. But I am putting it in the wider political environment in Germany tonight.
We have this story of Elon Musk tweeting his support, you will have seen it, for the AFD basically saying vote for this far right party, which we
already know is doing extremely well and it is only the fact that other parties wont link up with it that it isn't actually more powerful in
government.
Germany is in a mess.
KAYYEM: Yes, it is in a -- you're exactly right. It is in a political mess. And that's why the sort of a variety of potential motivations, this is not
-- if he acted alone, this was not a complicated attack. In fact, it does not look like he had an exit strategy. There may be bombs, but we are
always careful about first reports.
And so both the domestic and the foreign aspects of this are going to be relevant for the investigation. Look, they have him alive and they have the
car. Both of those elements are going to tell investigators a whole lot, and then you're going to have both European and other Western Intelligence
agencies right now doing a drill down on who he is, phone calls, relationships abroad.
We will know a lot more about him in just a few hours. Given how investigations like this work.
QUEST: Juliette, you've been very gracious. I've thrown just about the kitchen -- everything, including the kitchen sink at you in the last ten
minutes and you've helped us enormously understand the way things are developing. Thank you, Juliette, as always, thank you.
Because the news never stops, neither do we. CNN will have more after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:32:34]
QUEST: Our top story tonight. Obviously, the breaking news that we're bringing to you. A young child, is now known to be one of the two people
who died when the car crashed into the Christmas market in Germany just a few hours ago. The attack because that's what it's being called, took place
in Magdeburg, which is a city west of Berlin.
The past few minutes, we've been told that it's a Saudi doctor has been arrested over the attack. He had been living in Germany since 2006. So, we
know that at least 68 people have been injured now. Judging from the video and what we have seen, it's a fair bet that many of those injuries are life
changing, life threatening, and one would certainly expect the number of people to have been killed to rise in the hours ahead.
That's just on the basis of the pictures we've seen, the video we've seen, and experience of these sort of events. Germany's Chancellor Olaf Scholz
said his thoughts are with the families and the victims. Now the video is circulating in social media. I'll be blunt. It is far too graphic to play
on any television network. So, instead, because I want you to understand the gravity of it, let's show you some stills of the aftermath taken, and
even these pictures are disturbing.
The crowd was standing in a relatively cramped area. There wasn't much room to get out of the way. The shops and the stalls selling all cutesy
Christmassy Knick Knacks and treats all around. But Matthew Chance, Matthew join me in these photographs. What we can see, of course, is that swathe on
the left where the car went down. And having seen the video, that car did not deviate. That car was -- any notion that this was the heart attack or
the heavy foot is just not plausible.
MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: No, I don't -- I don't think so. And you saw in the video, we're not playing it, as you
mentioned, but you can see in the video people running in panic. You can see, you know, people's bodies lying on the ground in the -- in the
aftermath.
[16:35:06]
It's an absolute scene of carnage just five days before Christmas. And the driver of that vehicle, I think we've just been reporting, is in police
custody. He's been identified, as you mentioned, as a Saudi national, a doctor who works, according to reports in the local area, and he's been in
in Germany since 2006. And so, that gives us a bit more detail on the suspected perpetrator of this -- of this attack.
Local government officials have been speaking out, calling it terrible, condemning it, of course. The head of the local government in that area to
the west of Berlin saying that this is a lone wolf attacker according to current information and that there's no danger for the city at the moment.
That's basically a quote from the head of the local government administration. And so, it seems that this incident, however horrific it
is, has been contained and the police don't think there are more attackers out there.
QUEST: I was talking with Juliette Kayyem just a few moments ago. You may have heard our discussion. This idea of a -- well, particularly if it is a
lone wolf, and the motive, whether this becomes something that a radicalization from Middle East origin or whether it is you -- as German
domestic politics. I mean, the Saudi aspect may be a complete irrelevance. This may be somebody who is deeply unhappy with the state of events in
Germany.
CHANCE: I mean, I guess that's -- I guess that's possible. But, I mean, I think we also have to, you know, accept that this is a kind of attack that
we've seen on multiple occasions in the past. In Berlin, in fact, in 2016, there was an attack carried out very similar to this one by an Islamic
extremist individual from Tunisia, I believe, in which a dozen people were killed and dozens more were injured.
And so, yes, I suppose it fits into the kind of modus operandi of attacks by Islamic extremists that we've seen here in Berlin, elsewhere in Europe
as well. And of course, remember, it doesn't take much to drive a vehicle. It doesn't take much in terms of planning and training to radicalize and
drive a vehicle into a crowded place which appears to be what has taken place here.
QUEST: Indeed, Matthew. I'm grateful. Thank you, sir. Matthew Chance will be watching over events and continues to keep us informed. Let me just
remind you what we know. Two people are now known to have died, one of which is a young child in the attack in Magdeburg. The police -- well, the
authorities are saying that the person arrested, we assume is the driver of the car is a Saudi doctor who'd been in Germany since 2006. We'll continue
to watch the events and report back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:41:06]
QUEST: Now, returning to the breaking news that we have for -- out of Germany. A car plowed into a Christmas market what authorities say was a
deliberate attack. At least two people are known to have died so far, and dozens injured. The authorities are now saying it was an individual
perpetrator that carried out the attack according to our reporting. The phrase lone wolf is now being used, according to the preliminary
information, according to the regional prime minister.
The premier who says, we are currently in the process of compiling all further data. According to current information, it is an individual
perpetrator, so there is no longer any danger to the city, because we are able to arrest him, says Reiner Haseloff, the Saxony-Anhalt premier in
television -- forgive me. I'm so sorry. I didn't -- looking down as I was reading. I just wanted to make sure I got it absolutely correct.
We -- you see how these things develop over the course. As we get more information. We now know how the early numbers of deaths but that's the
most certainly likely to rise, at least those who have got life threatening and life changing industries is most certainly in the dozens. The
authorities say that the lone wolf is a Saudi doctor who had been living in Germany, since 2006.
Peter Bergen is on the line. Peter, as I feed this information to you, compute it for me, if you will. Lone wolf, Saudi doctor, 2006 similar
attack to Berlin in 2016. What do you make of it?
PETER BERGEN, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST (via telephone): We still don't know this motive. And, you know, it could be idiosyncratic. It could be --
who knows, but the fact that this is a tactic that has been used by people inspired by ISIS, both in Germany before, as you mentioned, in Berlin, but
also in places like the United States in 2017 in Manhattan. An Uzbek American plowed a vehicle into a crowd in the fall of 2017 injuring many
people, killing six.
He was fired by ISIS and he was also a lone actor. So, you know, the profile is certainly suggest somebody who might be inspired by ISIS or
other such groups. And we have also seen a Saudi military officer kill three American sailors at the naval base in Pensacola in Florida in 2019,
of course, Saudis founded al Qaeda, some Bin Laden, 15 of 19 hijackers in Saudi. So, you know, we still don't know the motive but it's looking
increasingly like somebody who's inspired by Islamist ideas that he picked up, probably on the internet.
You may have been in touch with the terrorist group, carrying out a vehicle rounding requires no special training and, you know, it's a -- it's a very
easy kind of attack to carry out. Unfortunately, it can also be very lethal.
QUEST: I'm reminded as I watched tonight's event, and particularly listening to what you were saying of the famous Ira phrase about Thatcher
and the Brighton bomb. You know, we -- you have to be lucky every time. We only have to be lucky once. And knowing what happened in Berlin and Nice
and elsewhere. And there have been other attacks on Christmas markets. Are you surprised that this particular one in a bigger city wasn't better
defended?
[16:45:02]
BERGEN: Yes. I think it's very hard to defend against these things because, I mean, this is not, you know, this is not Munich, Frankfurt or Berlin.
And, you know, yes, Christmas targets, Christmas markets have been the target of these kinds of attacks. That said, you can't protect everything
all the time. And, you know, you just -- we'll see if this was a security failure. Was this person known as security services, was known as somebody
who might be willing or capable of carrying out an attack?
We still don't know that, you know, was he fine completely under the radar. That's possible too.
QUEST: What do you imagine tonight? Give me some insight into the level tonight of intelligence chatter between all the major agencies.
BERGEN: Well, the fact that this guy is -- we know who he is. He's a Saudi doctor. We don't have a name but presumably the authorities have the name.
You know, that's a lot of information. Was he in touch with, you know, who was he in touch with in the Middle East, who, you know, who was he in touch
with in Germany? Is he somebody who is, for instance, on the terrorism watch list the United States maintains?
Tith the United States maintains two forms of watch list. One is a no-fly list, which is relatively small and the other one is something called the
tide list, which is actually quite big and has like, two million people on it which would put you into secondary screening if you're on American
flight. So, is it -- what he -- is he known to American counterterrorism authorities? Was he known to German counterterrorism authorities? We will
find out.
QUEST: Peter Bergen, I'm grateful, sir. Thank you for your time. Thank you. This is CNN, more in just a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
QUEST: So, a car plowed into a Christmas market in Magdeburg in Germany. Two hours from Berlin. The authorities say it was a deliberate attack. Two
people are known to have died, dozens of people are injured, probably many with life threatening and life-changing injuries. The premier of the
region, the Saxony-Anhalt region says that it's believed to be a lone wolf attack, and that suspect is in custody.
He is a Saudi doctor, according to the authorities, who had been living in Germany since 2006.
[16:50:07]
So, I put all those facts into a big pot and I then shove it in the direction of Andrew McCabe, who was the Deputy Director of the FBI. We spin
it around, Andrew, and you tell me what?
ANDREW MCCABE, FBI DEPUTY DIRECOR: Wow, Richard, that's a heck of a question. So, yes. It's a horrible situation. It's not unprecedented, as we
know, is a long history of using vehicles to attack Christmas markets in Germany. The most notorious in 2016, 12 people dead. Again in 2018 with
five dead. And then earlier this month, according to some open-source reporting, there was a plotted attack on a -- on a Christmas market that
was stopped.
This particular terrorist attack vector that is using a vehicle to drive into a large and vulnerable crowd, a soft target, as we say in the
industry, is also not new. We've had that here in the United States, Sayfullo Saipov, ISIS follower from Uzbekistan who rented a pickup truck
and drove it down a bicycle lane along the West Side Highway in the United States, 2017, killed, I think, eight people in that attack.
And we've seen it in the U.K., right? So, it's also not the first time we've seen doctors involved in this sort of extremist activity. Now we
don't know exactly what the motives were of this attacker, and hopefully we'll find out more of that as time goes on. But notoriously, Ayman al-
Zawahiri, the number two in al Qaeda was a doctor. Two men from Birmingham in 2007 who attacked the Glasgow airport, among other targets.
One of those gentlemen was a doctor. So, it's -- these are echoes of things that we have seen in the past, in our -- in our fight with extremism across
the globe.
QUEST: There are two distinct aspects to this. Aren't there in our coverage. And then the first is the motive and the reason why. And the --
arguably, the -- just as important in a sense, is, how did this -- how was this allowed to happen in the -- in the sense of the target not being hard
enough to prevent this. And I guess there's an element of -- you talk about 2016, eight years ago -- by the way, eight years and one day since it
happened, December the 19th, 2016.
And I guess that an element of, ah, those bollards are enough thoughts to become the mantra.
MCCABE: Yes. I think every day we get away from an attack. Our urgency to take the steps necessary to prevent it from happening again. Maybe it's
reduced a little bit and over time, but there is another competing interest here, Richard, right? These markets are a kind of a cultural icon in
Germany. And these markets don't take place, you know, out in the country in a hard to find, hard to get to, hard to drive up to location.
They take place in the city where people can walk to them, experience them after work, bring their families, that sort of thing. So, you know,
security professionals around the globe are constantly confronted by this. How hard can we make these potential targets without destroying their
cultural significance, their -- the ability for people to participate and enjoy them on some level.
That's a not an easy thing for municipal leaders and mayors and law enforcement folks to kind of strike that balance. I would suggest that the
Germans would probably think very differently about it after this attack.
QUEST: I'm guessing did the old lines would be a fine Christmas market if we just didn't have all those horrible people who had to come and shop
there, you know, in a way to -- we could make it completely secure. Do you think this is just floating a balloon in your direction, Andy? Do you think
that the German political chaos, crisis, immigration could have -- is likely to turn up as a factor in this, do you think? I don't know.
MCCABE: I think it's definitely possible, right? In the past, we've seen a pretty strong strain of affiliation or inspiration among these attackers
that we can draw a line right to international terrorist groups. We don't know what this attacker's motive was, or what his cause may have been,
hopefully we'll find out. But it's possible that his motives were more idiosyncratic, maybe more political.
Maybe some sort of a reaction or a statement about the status of immigration in Germany, which remains a highly volatile topic politically
and across the country.
[16:55:03]
So, I think we have to keep our aperture open and really follow, you know, the information that we get because I think there's still a pretty broad
scope of potential motivate -- motivators here.
QUEST: Can I just ask finally, whatever the political shenanigans on either side of the Atlantic may be in the days and weeks ahead, the law
enforcement cooperation both at a practical and organizational and at the highest levels that manages to remain rock solid despite any political
shenanigans.
MCCABE: It certainly has in the past, I expect that it will in the future as well. The cooperation and support given across borders, particularly
between the United States and its allies in Europe, is at a very, very, very high level, and has been since 911. I know, Richard, that there are
terrorism experts, agents and analysts here in the Northern Virginia area working right now whose job it is to share intelligence with our European
partners.
They are calling all of their resources to see what we know about this guy, and they're handing that over tonight.
QUEST: I'm grateful to you, sir, as always. Thank you for your -- thank you. This is CNN. More in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
QUEST: That is QUEST MEANS BUSINESS. Please stay with us. Our coverage of the breaking news continues because this is CNN.
JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: This evening, the clock is ticking, and the federal government is just hours away from shutting down. Sources say the
House of Representatives is expected to vote this hour in a series of bills in an attempt to avoid the shutdown, but it remains unclear if there are
the votes to get the bill across the finish line. Our teams are spread across the Capitol, getting new updates every minute.
The other big breaking story comes to us from Germany, where a driver plowed his car through a crowded Christmas market in Magdeburg which is
about 90 miles southwest of Berlin. At least two people were killed, an adult and a toddler. At least 68 others are injured. Authorities say the
suspected driver seen here on the ground being detained by police is a physician from Saudi Arabia who works in the area where the attack took
place.
Authorities say he's been living in Germany since at least 2006.
[17:00:06]
We're going to bring you more on that story in a second.
END
