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Quest Means Business

Canada's Leader Justin Trudeau Announces Resignation; Congress Certifies Trump's Election Victory; European Leaders Criticize Musk For Meddling In Their Politics; U.S. Steel, Nippon Steel File Lawsuits Over Blocked Deal; Exploring The Latest Dune Franchise Hit "Dune: Prophecy". Aired 4-5p ET

Aired January 06, 2025 - 16:00:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[16:00:33]

RICHARD QUEST, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST: The closing bell, excuse me, oh there we go. The closing bell has rung on Wall Street. The Dow was up for

most of the session and then as the session moved on, those gains evaporated and were down just 25 points at the start of a new week.

There are the markets and the events that you and I will be talking about over the next hour.

The US Congress has certified Donald Trump's election victory. He is the president-elect. A calm event exactly four years after his supporters

rioted on Capitol Hill.

Justin Trudeau, Canada's prime minister is resigning. His party will now choose a new leader ahead of this year's general election.

And European politicians would like Elon Musk to mind his own business.

Live from New York -- oh, live from London, good Lord, because another week has started, I am in London. Let's clarify that. Live from London, it is

Monday. It is January the 6th. I am Richard Quest in London, as elsewhere, I mean business.

Good evening.

Donald Trump's election victory has now officially been certified by the US Congress. Four years to the day after the January 6th riot that nearly

ended Mr. Trump's political career.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KAMALA HARRIS (D), VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: -- Trump of the state of Florida has received 312 votes. Kamala D. Harris --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

QUEST: Vice President Harris presided over her opponent's win. She was acting in the role as Senate President. Now, the whole process had been

regarded as a formality until January the 6th, 2021. Then, of course, as you're aware, Mr. Trump's supporters stormed the Capitol. They tried to

overturn his loss to President Biden.

Now, the same democracy that Trump tried to undermine has returned him to the White House.

Jim Sciutto is in Washington.

Jim, look, everybody kept saying how wonderful it was. Mike Pence and everybody kept saying, this is how it was supposed to be. But I choose to

focus not so much on the normality, but there are still some who say there was nothing wrong with what happened four years ago.

JIM SCIUTTO CNN ANCHOR AND CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yes, well, and an increasing number of those, right, that have flipped the

script in effect.

What was notable about that day was not just the violence, and the violence was real and threatening and led to injuries and attacked law enforcement

and led to fear for their lives, right, by Republican and Democratic lawmakers alike. But also was the lie that that election was stolen, which

preceded January 6th and has lasted since.

And many of those who on that day or the days that followed -- Lindsey Graham, Mitch McConnell, Kevin McCarthy who stated explicitly that that was

a horrible day and that Donald Trump was to blame very quickly or over time, stopped saying that, right, and ended up supporting Donald Trump.

And at the same time, you've had a disinformation campaign to rewrite the history of that day that we are seeing again play out before our eyes here,

and it has been a remarkable turn of events in that sense, not just that Donald Trump was re-elected, but that a whole new reality has been created

around events that we all witnessed with our eyes. It is a remarkable moment and phenomenon for this country.

QUEST: Now, related to that, the vice president and in her comments afterwards, she acquitted herself with remarkable dignity. It cannot be

easy. I mean, the last person who did it of course, was Al Gore, but it cannot be easy to stand there and to the world announce not just, you know,

not just "I lost," but I lost.

SCIUTTO: Yes, it can't be easy. But that's the job, right? And what -- and it is also a fact she lost and it is a fact that Trump lost in 2020, but he

didn't want to admit that, right, and created a whole industry around that both of disinformation and legal challenges and that violence that we saw

that day.

[16:05:00]

Kamala Harris didn't do that, and vice presidents for generations didn't do that either, right? Whether they were running or not. Donald Trump

attempted to get his vice president to do so, and yet he was re-elected. That's the American people's choice, but for you and me, we can state

explicitly the facts of that day were violent. We could state explicitly that that was a statement we heard far and wide from Democrats and

Republicans. And by the way, from senior Republicans at the time, McCarthy and McConnell among them, they assigned blame to Trump for it.

Those facts didn't change. The election results are different, but the facts of that day four years ago did not change and we saw it. We saw it

happen.

QUEST: A great day for democracy. It looks like behind you, Jim, terrible weather in Washington.

SCIUTTO: It is snowing. It is. It is -- I mean, it is almost a foot. It is almost a foot of snow, and you have to wonder whether we had this weather

four years ago today? Whether everyone would have braved it? I don't know. It is an open question.

QUEST: Good to see you, sir. Thank you. Great to see you.

SCIUTTO: You as well.

QUEST: Now, Canada's Prime Minister Justin Trudeau is resigning after nine years in office. He has Canada's Liberal Party for more than a decade.

The polls show that he is on track to lose badly to the conservatives at the next election, which must take place before October the 20th. Mr.

Trudeau says his sinking popularity played a role in his decision.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JUSTIN TRUDEAU, CANADIAN PRIME MINISTER: This country deserves a real choice in the next election, and it has become clear to me that if I am

having to fight internal battles, I cannot be the best option in that election.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

QUEST: Now, Paula is with me in Ottawa. Too little, too late, a day late, a dollar short, whatever you like. He has left it too late to go for the

liberals to put their person in and win the next election. Or is it never a hope to start with?

PAULA NEWTON, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST AND CORRESPONDENT: Listen, Richard, succession planning. You and I have discussed this so much, whether it is

political leaders or CEOs, they never seem to get the message that you need to prepare for this, and that was certainly part of it.

Remember, this is a government that's almost a decade old, certainly a fresh look would have been in order, especially when the polls started to

turn, but at issue now is a completely different political and economic reality, and that is part of what got Justin Trudeau fired, really by his

own party. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TRUDEAU: I intend to resign as party leader, as prime minister.

NEWTON (voice over): Canada's Justin Trudeau announced he would step down as both Liberal Party leader and prime minister when his party chooses a

new leader.

Trudeau ending months of turmoil about his future with a reluctant goodbye.

One of the country's youngest ever leaders, Trudeau promised to usher in sunny ways when he was first elected in 2015. But nearly a decade later,

members of his own party recently joined a growing chorus of Canadians who wanted the sun to set on his tenure.

Amid plummeting opinion polls, Trudeau's Liberal Party was widely expected to lose a general election later this year if he remained as prime

minister.

Still for months, he said he had no intention of resigning.

TRUDEAU: Like most families, sometimes we have fights around the holidays, but of course, like most families, we find our way through it.

NEWTON (voice over): Despite calls to resign from his own members of Parliament, Trudeau insisted that he was best placed to fight Canada's

corner as President-elect Donald Trump threatens 25 percent tariffs on all goods imported from Canada, which is home to about 40 million people and

one of America's largest trading partners.

But last month, even Trudeau's finance minister and long-time ally, Chrystia Freeland resigned from his Cabinet, leaving him on even shakier

ground with a blunt resignation letter accusing the prime minister of using costly political gimmicks at the expense of Canada's fiscal health.

Freeland added that the government needed to start pushing back against America First economic nationalism.

A former high school teacher and the eldest son of Pierre Trudeau, one of Canada's most well-known prime ministers, Trudeau was elected three times.

He became a poster child for the country's progressive agenda on the global stage, seen as an antidote to Trump during the incoming US president's

first term.

His government pursued policies on alleviating child poverty, gender equity, cutting middle class taxes, and the legalization of cannabis. And

while he was generally praised for his handling of the pandemic, voter sentiment has soured since.

[16:10:05]

High inflation, unaffordable housing crisis and an increase in legal immigration have tested Trudeau's government.

TRUDEAU: We continue to handle migration seriously.

NEWTON (on camera): And will that include taking migrants that sometimes even present themselves at the southern border, or taking migrants directly

from the United States?

TRUDEAU: Canada is always willing to do more. We just need to make sure were doing it in responsible, proper ways to continue to have our citizens

positive towards immigration as Canadians always are.

NEWTON (voice over): Now that Trudeau is resigning, once a new Liberal Party leader is in place, an election will follow by summer or early fall

at the latest.

Former Bank of England Governor Mark Carney, Chrystia Freeland and Foreign Minister Melanie Joly are all considering a run for the liberal leadership.

Pierre Poilievre's opposition Conservative Party currently holds a more than 20 percent lead over the liberals in polling averages.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

QUEST: And so, Paula, who is the clever money on to be the next Liberal leader?

NEWTON: Well, I will give you this: No one knows right now. In fact, many Canadians in fact, the highest number of Canadians in the latest poll say

they don't really care who the leader of the Liberal Party is. But right now, Chrystia Freeland is actually ahead, not by much, again, this is

supposed to be a very hotly contested race.

The Liberal Party itself wants it to be very competitive so they come up with a strong candidate. But right now, many pollsters say this is

Conservative Party leader, Pierre Poilievre's race to lose. He is ahead, as I said, by some 20 points or more.

And Canadians do seem to want a change.

QUEST: And we will be grateful for you being there, taking us through every step of the way.

By the way, quickly, when do you think the election is? Any thoughts? Quickly.

NEWTON: Listen, it has to be by the fall. So I am not going to tell you the fall. I put -- I put it to early summer after the G7 in June in Alberta,

right after, we will have the election. My money is on that.

QUEST: Oh, yes. That's a good one. Yes, right. Thank you. Paula in Ottawa. Grateful.

This is QUEST MEANS BUSINESS. Delighted you're with us. Thank you.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

QUEST: European leaders are hitting back at Elon Musk for meddling in their politics. Musk has been using his platform, X, to attack European

politicians and boost right-wing parties.

[16:15:10]

So now we have the leaders of the UK, France and Norway voicing concerns. The Norwegian prime minister says this is not the way things should be

between democracies and allies.

CNN's Nic Robertson reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ANNOUNCER: Elon Musk.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR (voice over): Elon Musk is dialing up attacks on European politicians, the barbs aimed at Britain

coming thick, fast, and painful, using his social media platform, X to trash UK Prime Minister Keir Starmer for alleged failings in a child abuse

scandal involving gangs of South Asian men in multiple UK cities, grooming the vulnerable young girls.

That was when Starmer was the UK's chief prosecutor more than a decade ago. Starmer is firing back.

KEIR STARMER, UK PRIME MINISTER: We've seen this playbook many times, whipping up of intimidation and threats of violence.

ROBERTSON (voice over): Musk's vitriol sharpest against Jess Phillips, the government official charged with safeguarding children, calling her plain

evil and a wicked creature who should be imprisoned for not sanctioning a nationwide inquiry, but a local one instead.

STARMER: When the poison of the far right leads to serious threats to Jess Phillips and others, that in my book, a line has been crossed.

ROBERTSON (voice over): Musk's inaccurate and sensationalist accusations are catching UK politicians off guard, and Musk is also attacking a staunch

Trump ally, Nigel Farage saying Farage doesn't have what it takes to lead his upstart, Reform UK Party.

Farage, the British populist who pushed Brexit just hours before musk's put down, had counted the tech titan a supporter who might finance his

fledgling party.

NIGEL FARAGE, LEADER REFORM BRITISH PARTY: The fact that he supports me politically and supports reform doesn't mean I have to agree with every

single statement he makes on X.

ROBERTSON (voice over): Why falling out? Possible differences over this man known as Tommy Robinson, a jailed anti-Muslim campaigner who fanned the

flames of racist riots last summer. Musk praises him, Farage doesn't.

UK elections are years away, but Musk is now championing some of Europe's more extreme far-right candidates, even over some of the more well-known

right-wing voices.

EMMANUEL MACRON, FRENCH PRESIDENT (through translator): Ten years ago, who would have imagined if we had been told that the owner of one of the

largest social networks in the world would support a new international reactionary movement and intervene directly in elections, including in

Germany.

ROBERTSON (voice over): Musk, also supporting the hard right AFD, Alternative for Germany Party ahead of elections there next month.

But Italy is now rewarding Musk's rightward European tilt, the populist right wing PM Giorgia Meloni just visited with President-elect Donald

Trump, seemingly nudging a $1.6 billion SpaceX deal with Italy closer to the world's richest man.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

QUEST: Nic is with me now.

Why is he doing it?

ROBERTSON: Look, it has to be part of a long-term strategy. If you look at what Steve Bannon, the adviser to Trump, did during Trump's last

administration, he was out there in Europe trying to gather the right wing, get them together, make them stronger, make them more disruptive, and he

seems to be picking up that baton.

The UK, I know what you're saying, the UK, Keir Starmer is in their big majority in there for four or five years. It is a long-term project. I

think that's what we have to say.

QUEST: Well, let's take Nigel Farage. First of all, excellent -- Nigel Farage is the man, he is going to give a hundred million. Blah-blah-blah.

Nigel Farage disagrees with him over this jailed -- convicted jailed man.

And like this, Musk turns on Farage and says he should be replaced.

ROBERTSON: Look, Musk is a very smart guy. We don't know what his end game is here. He has suggested other people that could lead that party, but the

book is already today are saying, hey, Boris Johnson, 12 to one, the former conservative leader who Trump likes so much, you know, is he trying to

clear the decks and have somebody much bigger, much more high profile, much stronger charisma lead that party? Is that is that the name of the game?

QUEST: I am trying not to do, you know, outrage of general whatever, but is there not something weird and wrong with the world's richest man

essentially cohabiting in the same hotel as the world's most powerful man to be and we have no idea what is going on?

[16:20:12]

ROBERTSON And it is in the remit of the world's most powerful man to say that this is wrong. This is not the way democracies work, and this is not

the way that I am going to work, but Donald Trump, who you're talking about is a disrupter. He is a changer and he is doing it differently.

And Musk, as we know, is also incredibly powerful and it works for both of them right now.

QUEST: So Starmer, who was very laid back the way he said it. But what he said today, Sir Keir basically said we know what this is about. We've seen

it before. This is a man who has not done anywhere near as much. He has only got it in for himself.

So does Musk turn on Starmer further? Would Starmer care?

ROBERTSON: Starmer is doing what prosecutors do, which is not chase the other guy's rabbit. He is not being led into an open discussion to

relitigate everything that's been before. That's politically disastrous.

He is smart enough not to do that, but that is not going to get him out from under Musk's criticism.

QUEST: But one problem with that is, the prosecutor thing is fine when you've got a judge and jury that you're going to go with. But here, the

judge and jury is the court of public opinion.

ROBERTSON: The jury voted in the summer last year, and they gave Starmer a very clean and strong bill of health. He can live off that for a while.

QUEST: All right, judge and jury. Good to see you, sir. Happy New Year.

ROBERTSON: Happy New Year.

QUEST: Thanks as always for being with us.

And talking of judges and juries or at least judges, a US judge in New York has found Rudy Giuliani in contempt of court. He refused to turn over

documents to the lawyers of two former election workers he defamed. He has falsely claimed those workers tried to steal the 2020 election.

Now they are owed nearly 150 odd million from the New York mayor. Katelyn Polantz is with me.

All right, this is grubby, because here you have this -- you have Giuliani back in court trying to justify why he shouldn't hand over more or less or

whatever, and now the judge is saying, what?

KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN CRIME AND JUSTICE SENIOR REPORTER: Well, this is really a piecemeal court argument because there are so many things that

Giuliani has that he is just not turning over to these women in full, and so they're in court day after day. They were in court with Giuliani on the

stand on Friday, and then again today, chasing him down, trying to get the judge to hold him in contempt.

What this was over is that there is a condo he says he lives in in Palm Beach, Florida that is worth about $3.5 million. They want that condo from

him and they're going to trial on it. They were trying to get information about whether he actually lives in Florida and can keep a hold of that

condo as his possession and the judge said, you're just not turning over the things. You're willfully being uncooperative here in the preparations

for trial, not giving these women e-mails that they need, information about communications related to your travel in Florida. So that's what happened

today.

But there are other things they still want. They don't have the title to a Mercedes Benz that he shipped to them. He can't find a Joe DiMaggio signed

jersey from the New York Yankees that he has that's worth something.

So all of that continues on in court as these two women try to collect the debt.

QUEST: What's the jeopardy that he now faces having been found in contempt?

POLANTZ: Well, every piece of this court proceeding is about Rudy Giuliani losing everything. So he has already lost a lot of things under a court

order. Now they're trying to collect on that order.

So here, it is going to be much more difficult for Giuliani at trial in about ten days to try and argue to the court he should keep a hold of his

Florida condo where he says he is living now. So he stands to lose that. There are other things going to trial, too, World Series rings that he has.

There's questions of whether he can keep that and he is just trying to delay.

QUEST: Is there any way that Donald Trump -- I am trying to think of any way that Donald Trump can save him, in a sense, once he is back in the

White House? But these were civil proceedings. They were defamation proceedings. They weren't federal of nature.

It seems like Rudy Giuliani has carried a very large tub of water for Donald Trump.

POLANTZ: He has indeed. Richard, there are two things that could happen here. One, he could file for bankruptcy again. Now he is barred from doing

that for several more months, but there could come a time again where he tries that.

He tried that once before, went into bankruptcy. It protected everything he had for a little bit, and now he is out of bankruptcy. That's why they are

collecting. But then there is the other thing with Donald Trump and who knows if it would be possible, but somebody could always write a big check

to these two women and get Rudy Giuliani out of debt. It is money at this time. It is assets at this time that he just doesn't have, and that they

are being very successful in their legal efforts to try and take a hold of those things.

[16:25:10]

QUEST: Thank you for following this so closely. I am grateful. We will talk more about it. Thank you.

Now, one of the hottest franchises of the past year is back for more, it is the latest in the "Dune" series and its "Dune" prophecy. I meet the two

lead actresses next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

QUEST: Hello, I am Richard Quest. We have more QUEST MEANS BUSINESS in a moment, only after I've given you the top stories. Because this is CNN and

here, the news always comes first.

Donald Trump's election victory has been certified by the US Congress. The Vice President Kamala Harris presided over her opponent's victory in her

role as Senate President. The event was long considered a mere formality until Trump's supporters stormed the Capitol building four years ago.

Canada will soon have a new prime minister after Justin Trudeau announced he is resigning as PM and head of the party. His successor will replace him

before elections, bringing Trudeau's nine-year tenure to an end.

The government has been in crisis since Finance Minister Chrystia Freeland quit last month.

Russia's Ministry of Defense says its forces have repelled a Ukrainian counterattack in the southern border region of Kursk. It comes a day after

Ukraine said it launched a surprise attack. Russia says the response was decisive. CNN can't verify battlefield reports.

US Steel and Japan's Nippon Steel have sued the Biden administration over its decision to block their merger. The lawsuit claims the move was purely

political. President Biden said foreign ownership of US Steel threatens National Security. The companies want the court to order a new review of

the $14 billion offer. They're also suing a rival bidder and the Steelworkers Union that opposed the deal.

[16:30:12]

Anthony -- Dominic Romano is with me. He's the founder and managing partner of Romano Law. Good to see you, sir. He's going to have an uphill task,

isn't he?

Sorry. They can have an uphill task because there's a lot of -- there's a lot of respect given to the President's national security claim. So how are

they going to get over it?

DOMENIC ROMANO, FOUNDER AND MANAGING PARTNER, ROMANO LAW: Well, they're making the argument. There are two separate lawsuits, one against the New

York, the -- sorry, the U.S. government and the other against Cleveland- Cliffs, the competitor, its CEO and the president of the Steelworkers union basically claiming anti-competitive behavior, collusion and monopolistic

anti-competitive behavior.

Basically, Cleveland-Cliffs was one of the bidders. They bid seven -- less than -- around half, seven billion versus the 14 billion winning bid by

Nippon. And Nippon and U.S. Steel are basically saying, look, this is not against national security interest. Japan is a major ally of the U.S. There

are other players. For example, Nucor is an even bigger United States steel company.

QUEST: So, what would the judge have to decide in this case? Because essentially, they'd have to overturn the president's decision, and even if

they did, wouldn't that just take us back to square one of having to have a review?

ROMANO: Yes. They want the committee of foreign investment to look at the case again, invoking due process and look at it fairly and because they

punted to the president. And basically, what's interesting here is that both the incoming administration and the current administration are in

favor of blocking the deal. So, they want the deal looked at again, and there are two separate lawsuits here, so they're different judges.

Basically, they're saying that U.S. Steel and Nippon are being treated unfairly, and this deal is consistent with national security interests. In

fact, it strengthens ties with an ally. There are other players in the U.S. steel industry and that the U.S. deal is not the only game in town.

QUEST: The other -- one of the problems, of course, they claim that Biden's decision was purely political, saying that he'd made up his mind early on,

even before he made the determinative finding. But that begs the question of whether or not the -- any judge all the way up to the Supreme Court

would substitute their judgment.

ROMANO: Well, the Supreme Court has. In 1952, President Truman tried to nationalize and take ownership of -- in fact, the steel industry during the

Korean War and the Supreme Court blocked it. Truman was shocked and surprised and he laid back. President Ford is the one -- the -- his

administration set up the committee of foreign investment, this review that is going now, and they're saying basically argument that (INAUDIBLE) and

U.S. Steel are making for the shareholders is there -- this is not a threat to national security.

QUEST: But pull together your vast years of experience in this. Give me the smell test of what you think are going to happen here.

ROMANO: Well, there are a lot of political hurdles to overcome with the new administration also being in favor. There are a lot of votes with steel

workers and the -- and the unions. But at the end of the day, what they're asking for is a fair hearing from the start. And it's important to note,

though that Treasury, the defend -- the State Department and other U.S. departments have advised the Biden administration that this is not against

national security interests.

So, basically, the lawsuit against the government and the one against Cleveland-Cliffs, its CEO and the president of the United Steelworkers is

saying that this is merely pandering to the voters, it's pandering to the Union and there's no legitimate national security interest in this specific

case, in this specific merger.

QUEST: Fascinating. So, we will need your assistance, pro bono, of course. We will need your assistance to help us navigate these waters as it went

its way through. I'm grateful to you. Good to see you.

ROMANO: Happy to do so, Richard.

QUEST: Thank you very much indeed. Now as QUEST MEANS BUSINESS, we go to the world of cinema.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A young warrior is called upon to free his people. A world

that owns creation's greatest treasure.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He who controls the spice, controls the universe.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

QUEST: Now you may recognize that film clip. It was from the 1984 film Dune. It was panned at the time by the critics and many sci-fi fans. Since

then, the 1964 novel Dune has had a bit of redemption, by the way, if you - - oh, it's got appendices in this. I didn't see those. It goes to some 565 riveting reads.

[16:35:02]

Now, since the book as, since the book, there have been two movies with major star power that have been worldwide hits. I can honestly watch them

on planes but these two movies is only -- are only part of the story because the party hasn't stopped there. There is a new prequel called Dune:

Prophecy which is out. It's made by HBO, which, of course, as you're well aware, is part of WBD, Warner Brothers Discovery, the same parent company

as CNN.

Now, Dune: Prophecy. You see -- you can see them there. Well, I spoke to the two shows lead actors, which, for the first time in Dune universe, are

both women.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I am Paul Muad'Dib Atreides.

QUEST (voice-over): It was always a tall order turning the beloved sci-fi classic Dune into a new feature film. Expectations were high. Critics, dare

I say, nitpickers everywhere.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Who can destroy a thing has a real control of it.

QUEST (voice-over): In the face of this, the Dune film's triumphed, achieving both box office and critical success. The soaring desert escapes,

drug-laced mysticism and heart-pounding action scenes and the stars Timothy Charlemagne and Zendaya won over fans. Now HBO seeks to expand the Dune

universe.

OLIVIA WILLIAMS, ACTRESS: The sisterhood draws women from many worlds.

QUEST (voice-over): Dune: Prophecy, a six-episode prequel featuring two veterans of the stage.

EMILY WATSON, ACTRESS: I run a school for young women.

QUEST (voice-over): Emily Watson and Olivia Williams.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They're a secret we have contemplating.

WATSON: It rather took me by surprise, the kind of sense of ownership of the material, of how everybody already out there already owns it and knows

what they think it should be like, which is -- which was -- is kind of great, but it's also, you know, you can't please all the people all the

time.

QUEST (on camera): Coming off the back of the two movies, that adds an extra pressure, because the preconceptions rightly or wrongly of what this

should or should not be are there, and you have to live with that.

WILLIAMS: In a way, I feel that they took the brunt of that, having followed the David Lynch version and people saying that adaptations were

doomed to fail. And so, we really have to thank you know Zendaya and Timothy Chalamet for sort of taking it on the chin and, of course, the

knee. But the greatest comeback for us is that we received them by 10,000 years.

So, from now on, really, they should be very alarmed and be taking note of what we're doing. And as the origin story for them.

QUEST (voice-over): The two women play sisters leading a mysterious female sect known as the Bene Gesserit. Its members employing spectacular powers

to further their influence amongst the elite.

QUEST (on camera): Emily, when you were given the role, what did you have in mind for it?

WATSON: I guess the answer that comes to mind, first of all was to really investigate my own sense of anger and inner steel because that's not

usually the direction I'm asked to travel in, and that was really interesting to me just to be -- she's not a person who engages in a social

contract.

QUEST: Same for you. Olivia, what were you thinking when you took the role?

WILLIAMS: I had a drama teacher at school who was old enough to be Prussian, which ages both me and him, and he had a wonderful note, which

was, ducky, your subtext is showing and this note is the most important note for this character to not play my subtext and to let the subtext be

revealed by actually the amazing young actress who plays my younger self. She got the one of the really astonishing punch lines of the series and it

was my duty not to give it away before.

QUEST (voice-over): While Watson and Williams first met at the Royal Shakespeare Company in the early 1990s, this is the first time they've

acted together.

QUEST (on camera): I've got three sisters, all of who -- including a twin sister, all of whom have reached CEO and executive director at level. So,

I've been around these issues my entire life. But for actors and female actors of a certain age, a lot is being made of the roles that have been

available in the past and now in the future and today.

[16:40:01]

WATSON: The landscape has definitely changed. I mean, for the better. Olivia and I, you know, when we've known each other for decades and when we

were in our 20s or we would have -- if we'd been -- we'd looked each other in the eye and gone, you know, when we're in our 50s, we're going to be

leading a sci-fi T.V. show, we'd have gone really.

WILLIAMS: Together. Together.

WATSON: Dune -- the fact Dune --

WILLIAMS: We did both.

WATSON: Yes.

WILLIAMS: Because in our other interviews, we revealed how many decades, in fact, we've known each other since the last millennium. People said, why

haven't you worked together before? And that's because there aren't -- there isn't space in most literature for two women of the same age in the

same --

(CROSSTALK)

WATSON: Two strong leading parts like --

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: Yes. One of us would have been a wife, a mother, a girlfriend or a daughter and another actress of another generation would have been the

other. But to get two of us for the prize --

(CROSSTALK)

WATSON: Yes. And very particularly --

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: Two for the prize of two.

WATSON: Very particularly in this genre as well.

QUEST (voice-over): They will have many more opportunities to collaborate. HBO has confirmed Dune: Prophecy will return for a second season.

WATSON: Sacrifices must be made.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

QUEST: My word. What an honor to be able to talk to those marvelous actors. And that's QUEST MEANS BUSINESS. I'm Richard Quest in London. Oh, there's

nothing to bell. Oh yes, I got the bell. By the way, I'm traveling for the next week or so. I'm Danny Malicious. If you see me on the way, come and

say hello. Whatever you're up during the hours and days ahead, I hope it's profitable. Coming up next, Connecting Africa. This is CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

END