Return to Transcripts main page
Quest Means Business
US Supreme Court Signals, It Will Uphold Ban On Popular App, TikTok; At Least 10 Dead, Widespread Damage In LA Wildfires; Trump Gets Unconditional Discharge In Hush Money Case; TikTok Ban; Maduro Inaugurated; Judge Sentences Trump To Unconditional Discharge. Aired 4-5p ET
Aired January 10, 2025 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[16:00:08]
PAULA NEWTON, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST: Bit of an ugly way to start the weekend, but I have to tell you, the markets were well within their rights,
given a very strong Jobs Report.
You see there, the Dow down better than 1.5 percent, but if we look at this through all of the markets, this is a broad based decline. Again all doing
to the better than expected Jobs Report. We will have much more on that in a moment.
For now, those are the markets and these are the main events.
The US Supreme Court appears likely to uphold a ban on the TikTok app.
More than 150,000 people, still, this hour under evacuation orders as four fires rage around Los Angeles.
And a solid Jobs Report, as I was just saying, has investors betting interest rates aren't going lower anytime soon.
Live from New York. It is Friday, January 10th. I'm Paula Newton, in for Richard Quest and this is QUEST MEANS BUSINESS.
Good evening.
And tonight, the US Supreme Court signals it will not save one of the most popular social media apps in the country. Lawyers for TikTok argued earlier
that it shouldn't face an imminent ban. The platform currently needs to find a new owner or shut down by January 19th. TikTok said it should be
protected by the First Amendment.
Chief Justice John Roberts signaled concern about National Security risks posed by the Chinese-owned app.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
JOHN ROBERTS, US SUPREME COURT CHIEF JUSTICE: So are we supposed to ignore the fact that the ultimate parent is, in fact, subject to doing
intelligence work for the Chinese government? It seems to me that you're ignoring the major concern here of Congress, which was Chinese manipulation
of the content and acquisition and harvesting of the content.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
NEWTON: Now, in their defense, TikTok's lawyers disputed that the app poses a risk both in court and at the news conference in the last hour.
Attorney Noel Francisco said TikTok is a public forum that deserves protection.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NOEL FRANCISCO, ATTORNEY FOR TIKTOK: You don't shut down a speech platform because you're worried about speech being dangerous. That is the whole
point of the First Amendment, that we engage ideas with ideas, and we let the truth come out. That's the fundamental problem with this act. It
doesn't reflect the trust that the First Amendment places in the American people.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NEWTON: And Clare Duffy joins me, and you've been following this really since people started whispering about a TikTok ban.
What were the implications? I was a bit surprised today, really, on how transparent the Supreme Court was about which direction they are headed.
CLARE DUFFY, CNN BUSINESS WRITER: Yes, it does look like things are not looking very good for TikTok and here is the thing, we don't actually know
how a ban would work if indeed this ban goes through on January 19th, if the Supreme Court declines to act here or rules to uphold this law because
the US government has never banned a major social media platform before. This is unprecedented.
And a lot is going to depend on how the US government decides to enforce this law, but what we expect is that the US government is going to go to
the app stores, think Apple, Google, and tell them that they have to remove TikTok from their platforms.
That's going to mean that if you don't already have TikTok on your phone, you're not going to be able to download it. If you do already have TikTok
on your phone, it is not going to magically disappear, the government can't come into your phone and erase it, but you won't be able to download
updates and that means that eventually the app will get buggy, it could have security vulnerabilities, and eventually it will stop working.
So this is going to have really serious implications for the 170 million American users who use this platform -- Paula.
NEWTON: A hundred and seventy million. I mean, just to think about that is absolutely staggering. I think, look, okay, you said it is going to stay on
the phone for a while. What about the alternatives here, though? There are groups trying to buy it.
Donald Trump has certainly said that he would like to, in his words, save the app.
DUFFY: Yes, and they did discuss that in the Supreme Court today, that there is this possibility that Trump could somehow intervene here. Although
the ban is currently set to go into effect the day before his inauguration.
In theory, Trump could just decline to enforce the law. He could signal to the app stores that he is not going to fine them if they continue to host
the app, and therefore they could decide to keep having TikTok available for download.
But it is not clear if the app stores are going to want to do that. If they're going to want to violate the letter of the law just because Trump
is giving them a wink and a nod and telling them that it is okay.
Even if this ban does go into effect, though, there will still be ways for users themselves to get around it. You could download a VPN that makes it
look like your internet traffic is coming from outside of the US and continue to access the app, update the app, but it is going to get a lot
more complicated.
NEWTON: Yes, and given that complication, you would think it would open up the space for TikTok's competitors.
Clare Duffy, we will leave it there for now, but stay tuned, right? A lot more to go on this story yet. Appreciate it. Thanks.
[16:05:10]
Now, TikTok says a ban would hurt millions of creators and small businesses. Many of them have been in Washington protesting the law. A
hundred and seventy million Americans like Clare just said, think about that, use the app, that includes some seven million small businesses.
TikTok says a ban would cost them about a billion dollars in lost revenue.
Now, individual creators would suffer $300 million of lost earnings in just one month. That's the estimate, anyway.
That has personal implications for creators like Summer Lucille. She gets 80 percent of her business from TikTok where she posts videos on people
finding dresses for their body type in her Juicy Body Goddess account, get this has more than a million followers.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SUMMER LUCILLE, CONTENT CREATOR: It does not sit right for your frame.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No.
LUCILLE: So let's just go try on another one and see what that feels like.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I like the length.
LUCILLE: You like the length. It is a cute dress and I love the dress on you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I do like --
LUCILLE: The V in the back.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The V in the back.
LUCILLE: But for a wedding, no. We turn around.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, this is really pretty.
LUCILLE: It is so beautiful.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NEWTON: We're saying yes to the dress. Summer Lucille joins me now. Thanks for coming in just to kind of explain what all of this might mean for you.
I am interested to know what you thought of what happened today and what you believe it means for your livelihood.
LUCILLE: I'm devastated. This ban will cripple my business. Like you mentioned before, 80 percent of my revenue and my traffic come from TikTok,
not just from an e-commerce perspective. I've had people fly in from the UK, Australia, Canada because they found me on TikTok.
So this will be devastating to my business, and I've been in business for 15 years, fifteen years, and not just recently, TikTok gave me the
opportunity to get on a platform and reach audiences I've never reached on any other platform, so this will be devastating to my business.
NEWTON: I have to ask you, given that you have had some time and our reporter, Clare Duffy just explained that, look, the app isn't going to
disappear right away. What about switching? Right? Switching to another platform?
LUCILLE: Like I said before, I've been on all the platforms since 2012. I've been on all the major platforms. As a small business owner, you have
to kind of utilize every inch and every platform, and nobody has ever -- I've never had this type of opportunity in the last 15 years on any of the
other platforms, as TikTok has given me.
So yes, I am already on all the other platforms, but TikTok was still bringing 80 percent of my traffic.
NEWTON: Whether you're a business owner or a user, what do you think it is about TikTok that other platforms haven't been able to replicate? Why is it
so essential?
LUCILLE: The community and that algorithm, that is -- it is the community. Once that algorithm finds your community and find what you like, it is like
your family and you never met the person.
I have thousands of content creators that I've built relationships with, thousands of customers that I found through TikTok because we built this
community, this plus size community that we love on each other, we support each other. It is the community and other platforms do not have that. We
don't have that sense of community, and I think that's what's powerful with TikTok.
NEWTON: They're missing that competitive advantage of the algorithm, you think that just doesn't exist on other platforms.
LUCILLE: Yes, it doesn't exist. The algorithm, it knows you, it understands you. And one thing people misunderstand is like the algorithm is this big
machine in the back. It is the people. It just knows how to read the people and the algorithm is us. It is not some kind of technology in the
background. It is the people. It is the user.
NEWTON: Summer, you know, President-elect Trump has found arguments like yours quite compelling. Are you looking to him to save this app now?
LUCILLE: Yes, yes, I am looking for President-elect Trump. He made very good points in his last interview about how he used the app to win the
president's seat, how Vice President Harris used the app. Government uses the app. So, I am hoping that he can come in and save TikTok because he
knows the importance, he understands.
NEWTON: And, Summer, I have to ask you, you know, the reason this is being done is for National Security implications. I am not suggesting that you or
I could ever really figure out what those are in detail, but as an American, does it bother you? Because a lot of this data, data about you
personally, your customers, your business does reside in a communist country, and no one can really say if that data would ever be used against
you or anyone else.
LUCILLE: Well, TikTok has spent billions. I don't think other people understand how much money TikTok has used and pushed into protecting my
information and my user data. No other US company or social media platform has spent billions of information research. They partner up with Oracle.
[16:10:18]
This is the safest app in the US, in the country, in the world. So taking away TikTok how is that -- why are we not putting laws in place to protect
every user data from any app, any company? Taking away TikTok, how is that fixing this user data fear that they've created?
I am very safe. I've always felt safe with TikTok and I have technology background. When they partnered with Oracle that put the icing on the cake.
I am -- I feel 100 percent safe on TikTok.
NEWTON: Interesting. So we are nine days from this ban, ten days to the inauguration. How tense will the next few days be for you?
LUCILLE: The last month has been -- I mean, I am not even -- this is my -- this is my livelihood. This is what I breathe, I've worked 18 hours a day,
seven days a week for 15 years. Get on an app, nine seconds, my life changed. And now my government that I trust and I love is taking it from
me.
So not only have -- my whole life is just in shambles right now, I don't know -- I don't know what to do because I've built this relationship with
this app in TikTok to try to build my business, and it is doing well, it is doing great after COVID and it is strong.
And now it is like, I have to start all over. All those 15 years of my work, sacrificing so much, sacrifice my health, my credit, my life, my
relationship with my family. It is like it is being taken away from me.
So I haven't ate that -- and I am a big girl. I love food, so that puts it in perspective of how stressed I am, okay. I am stressed out for my
business. So it is very -- I am very stressed.
So the last month has been kind of crazy for me with this whole TikTok ban.
NEWTON: Summer, we hear you. You make a compelling argument. We will wait to see exactly what happens in the next few days, and believe me, we sense
your frustration.
So happy to have you with us to really explain this to so many of your viewers. So, Summer Lucille, we will wait to see what happens next.
Appreciate it.
LUCILLE: Thank you. Thank you.
NEWTON: Now, officials have confirmed 10 deaths from the wildfires tearing through Los Angeles County. Firefighters are beginning to put up
containment lines against the two largest ones in Pacific Palisades and the Eaton Fire in Altadena.
Now, the fire chief says that those efforts are being helped along, thankfully, by calmer weather. But it may not last long. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KRISTIN CROWLEY, LOS ANGELES FIRE DEPARTMENT FIRE CHIEF: Due to the favorable overnight weather conditions and the diligent and I will focus on
the diligent work and effort and commitment of our first responders, we can report that the Palisades Fire is now eight percent contained.
Wind gusts are expected to increase in daylight hours. That will test our containment lines. Our firefighters will continue to respond to any flare
ups and increase our containment lines.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NEWTON: "Containment," what a great word that is.
Nick Watt is with us, joining us as he has been doing so right from the beginning here.
Nick, can you just give us a status report now? And what have you heard in the last day that perhaps I am hoping you're going to tell me gives you
some optimism?
NICK WATT, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, the fact that the wind is low right now, Paula, is a great, great thing. That has allowed them to get
those aerial assets up there in the air. The fixed wing aircraft, the helicopters to douse these flames, and also to try and create that
containment line around the flames so they don't spread any further through this. The most populated county in the entire United States. So the low
wind right now is good news. That wind will climb just a little bit.
Now, meanwhile, you know, people are really beginning as they're trickling in here to see the damage, people are really beginning to ask questions.
Did this really have to be this bad?
Well, listen, the fact that the wind was so high that they couldn't fight it from the air, that was a big problem, that nobody could do anything
about. If it is that windy, you just can't get stuff up there. And if you can't fight a fire like this from the air, you are at least one hand tied
behind your back. So nobody can take any blame for that.
Were there enough personnel? No, there weren't. That is being said by officials. Why were there not enough personnel? Well, the LA City Fire
Chief thinks that that's the fault of budget cuts and that's the fault of the Mayor's Office. The mayor denies that categorically.
Also, power lines. Should the power lines be underground? Paradise, a city, that town that was destroyed up in Northern California a few years ago by
fire, they are now rebuilding with the power lines underground. So all of these questions are being asked.
[16:15:00]
But basically what a lot of people are telling me today, a lot of experts in the field are saying, is just what we need to do now if we are going to
take a silver lining from this hellish event, is it needs to be a wake-up call of how we construct our cities and our infrastructure, and how we
prepare for fires like this.
We can no longer afford, Paula, to act like the climate is the same as it was in the last century, because it is not. They say this is a new reality
and we need to be aware of that. And we need to construct our cities in a way that can withstand that new climate.
You know, for example, you'll remember, of course, that the water in the hydrants ran out here during a peak moment of the fire. A lot of criticism
over that. But, you know, they have tanks up in the hills here with three million gallons of water to try and keep the pressure up on those pumps.
But I've been told by experts that there is not an urban water system on earth that could have coped with the demand from firefighters trying to get
a handle on this fire. So right now, as I was driving in a couple of mile long tailback of people waiting, hoping and frankly not being allowed in to
see what the damage is in their community.
Right now, a lull lowish winds, that's good news. But the wind, these Santa Ana Winds, Paula, forecast to get pretty strong again Tuesday. Back to you.
NEWTON: And Nick, we are looking at live pictures right now of the fire still burning, although somewhat contained but still were burning not to --
Nick, can you hear me now?
WATT: Hello, Paula? Sorry, yes, yes.
NEWTON: Nick, can you hear me now? So we are looking at we are looking at live pictures right now in the hills not far from you. This fire, only
somewhat contained. You've got to think that for people who just want to get on with it, want to get on with what recovery looks like, this must be
disheartening.
WATT: Yes, absolutely. But listen, the good news about that current latest fire is, you know, they've managed to get that like 35 percent contained,
they are throwing 900 extra firefighters at that.
You know, that's how we are used to fighting these fires. That's how you can fight these fires if there is no wind or very little wind. When the
wind is high, we've got to figure out a better way of doing it.
So, in terms of disheartening, you know, I have spoken to some people who lost their houses here who are now just going to leave Los Angeles and get
out. You know, it is going to take years to build out this.
NEWTON: Without the infrastructure, especially if you have a family, I have to say, Nick, the one thing that stuck with me were these young kids just
asking their parents, when can we go home? Right? They're just not getting -- they are just not understanding and that is so heartbreaking. Absolutely
heartbreaking.
Nick Watt for us, as always, thanks so much. And we continue to really pray that this gets much better in the coming days. Thanks so much.
Now, Donald Trump avoided any penalties during today's sentencing in his hush money trial. We will explain why the judge decided instead on what is
called an unconditional discharge. We will have that next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:20:40]
NEWTON: Donald Trump will return to the White House as a convicted felon, but without facing any punishment whatsoever. Now the president-elect
received an unconditional discharge at the virtual hearing.
Speaking from his home in South Florida, Mr. Trump maintained his innocence and he vowed to appeal this verdict.
Meanwhile, the judge said he must concede that Mr. Trump has been given a unique job.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
JUAN MERCHAN, ACTING JUSTICE, NEW YORK SUPREME COURT: The considerable, indeed extraordinary legal protections afforded by the Office of the Chief
Executive is a factor that overrides all others.
To be clear, the protections afforded the Office of the President are not a mitigating factor. They do not reduce the seriousness of the crime or
justify its commission in any way.
The protections are, however, a legal mandate which, pursuant to the rule of law, this court must respect and follow.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
NEWTON: The issue there presidential immunity. Kara Scannell is in New York for us. You've been following the ins and outs of this.
In terms of the legal outcome itself, what does this mean?
KARA SCANNELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: So by issuing the sentencing today, it means that there is final judgment in this case. And so, on the one hand
locks in this jury verdict, the conviction on 34 felony counts and it also allows Donald Trump the opportunity to begin appealing the verdict.
You know, he has made all of these moves in court to try to delay the sentencing, try to get the judge overseeing the case, Merchan to dismiss
it. But in New York State, until you're sentenced, you can't really appeal the verdict.
So the judge even noting that today, saying he thought it was important for public interest to have finality to this case, to this trial, and to allow
Trump to begin the next step so he can appeal this judgment and then ultimately see if a higher court will ultimately uphold the conviction.
And, you know, as you said, the unconditional discharge means that there is no prison, there is no fine, there is no probation. But it does have the
stigma attached to it of being a convicted felon. And Donald Trump now, for the first time in American history, will be the first American president
who is a convicted felon -- Paula.
NEWTON: Yes, and there is no doubt that he bristles at that on a personal level, arguably, politically, it has actually helped him rather than hurt
him.
Where does he go forward with this? I mean, obviously saying that he is going to appeal, perhaps many legal experts believe he has a good shot at
appeal. But when you drill down, is this not, as we heard from Judge Merchan about the immunity of a president, right?
SCANNELL: So that is where Donald Trump is focusing his appeal, and it is all really on the table because of the Supreme Court's decision in July,
where they said, among other things, that the president does have immunity for official acts and that some official acts can't be used at a trial.
And so Trump is trying to argue that this trial, the conviction should be thrown out, because while he was not in office at the time that he -- that
this hush money payment initially became orchestrated and those -- the kind of the facts led to what ultimately led to the conviction, but because some
evidence, including from testimony from some White House aides, tweets that Trump had made while he was in office were used at the trial.
So they are arguing that that should be the reason why this case should be thrown out. And also, they were trying to say and are still saying that
because Trump is president-elect, that the protections of the offices should be afforded to him.
Now, Judge Merchan has rejected those arguments, but those are going to be the basis for the appeal that could end some months, maybe a year from now,
right back in the hands of the Supreme Court to decide where that line falls and whether they're going to expand what they view as presidential
immunity to include some of this area that this judge did not think was included there or more clearly define what it is that means presidential
immunity and that could have, of course, big ramifications beyond just this one case against Donald Trump.
NEWTON: Yes, absolutely, for any president that continues in that office.
Kara Scannell, for us, as always, thanks so much. Appreciate it.
Now, US markets tumbled today after a strong Jobs Report dashed hopes that the Fed will keep lowering interest rates. The Dow fell just about 700
points. The S&P and NASDAQ. This is what's interesting. Both dropping around 1.5 percent as well.
[16:25:10]
Now the US economy added 256,000 jobs in December, about 100,000 more than expected. The robust data could mean the Fed will keep rates higher,
especially since inflation is still above the target that it has set at about two percent.
"Barron's" senior writer Paul La Monica is with me now.
Paul, so good to see you. You have the task to explain this to us. I mean, look, the jobs market, from what you hear anecdotally has been a tough one,
especially if you think about white collar workers, and yet these numbers would tend to indicate something else.
PAUL R. LA MONICA, SENIOR MARKET ANALYST WRITER, BARRON'S: Yes, exactly, Paula, and it is -- you know, the market reaction was the proverbial case
of good news being bad news because as you point out, the investors are worried that the Fed is very unlikely to be lowering interest rates at its
next meeting later this month.
But also, if you look ahead to its meeting after that in March, there is now the probability rising of another pause from the Fed then. So, it is
going to be very fascinating to see politically whether President-elect Trump will be president by the time of the next Fed meetings, if he is
critical of Jerome Powell for not continuing to lower interest rates, or if he will try and take credit for what is still a pretty robust jobs market.
But I think you're right. There is some confusion because white collar jobs, it has been a little bit more difficult. But, you know, wage growth
has still been very strong. We've seen other areas, other Jobs Reports, the weekly jobless claims were very low. The ADP numbers, the JOLTS numbers
that came out this week, not a lot of turnovers.
So this still seems to be a very resilient labor market that's defying all the odds and all the skeptics.
NEWTON: Yes, and again the Federal Reserve is fine with that. They're not so keen on inflation, which is why the markets were down today.
You know this is the rear view mirror of the Biden economy, as you were saying. You know, what do you believe could be the effect here on interest
rates when we keep hearing from a Federal Reserve that they say is data dependent?
LA MONICA: Yes, that means that they are not going to make any drastic moves until they really see evidence that the data supports that. And I
think, Paula, now the big question becomes, going forward, if you get tax cuts from Trump and the Republican Congress, if you get more fiscal
stimulus, does that add to the inflation concerns, or does the fact that it leads to robust growth and hopefully a job market that doesn't fall off a
cliff, that, you know, the Fed can then kind of hold things steady for a while.
But I think immigration issues, that's a worry whether or not you do wind up having mass deportations, that could be a potential problem for the
labor market that pushes wages higher.
You know, the threat of tariffs, some would argue that it is really just a one-time price increase, but that could also be viewed as inflationary. And
I think all of this uncertainty is the reason why the market has been so volatile lately.
The that post-election honeymoon period pretty much dissipated in December, and we are still seeing a lot of volatility so far in the New Year.
NEWTON: Yes, and it is that uncertainty that is affecting markets. You just articulated exactly what they know and don't know about the incoming Trump
administration and that kind of has them spooked.
Paul La Monica, you promise me next time, we are going to actually talk about good economic news when you're on, okay. So that's what you're up for
next time.
LA MONICA: This was good economic news, it just wasn't a good market reaction kind of thing.
NEWTON: Not for interest rates. Not for interest rates, Paul, I am telling you, they're hurting out there. People want -- they want to be able to snap
up those low mortgage rates and those low credit on their credit cards. So yes, I hear you, next time.
LA MONICA: Not anytime soon, unfortunately.
NEWTON: See you. Thanks, Paul. Appreciate it.
Coming up, one of the most popular apps is facing an imminent ban as the Supreme Court signals it will not come to TikTok's rescue. We will discuss
what comes next after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:32:19]
NEWTON: Hello. I'm Paul Newton and there's more QUEST MEANS BUSINESS in a moment when we'll tell you about a TikTok ban and what it could mean for
its 170 million use users here in the United States.
And Venezuela just sworn Nicolas Maduro for six more years as president. The opposition calls it a coup d'etat. Before that, though, the headlines
this hour. Utter devastation in Los Angeles, as flames turn entire neighborhoods to ash. At least 10 people died, and officials say the death
toll will likely rise. The wildfires have burned through an area the size of the city of Miami. More than 150,000 people at this hour remain under
evacuation orders.
Opposition activists in Venezuela are condemning today's inauguration of Nicolas Maduro as a coup d'etat vowing to begin a new phase in what they
call the fight for freedom. President Maduro was sworn in for a third term in Caracas after months of protests over a disputed election.
The judge in Donald Trump's hush money case in New York has given him an unconditional discharge. This means the President-elect will not face any
jail time or penalties. Trump was convicted on 35 -- 34 accounts, pardon me, of falsifying business records related to hush money payments. The
criminal activity took place before the 2016 election.
U.S. Supreme Court justices are signaling they will likely uphold the ban on TikTok. If made official, the app would then be left to either find a
new owner or shut down in just over a week. TikTok's lawyers argue it should be protected under the First Amendment.
A lawyer for TikTok said selling the app would be extraordinarily difficult. Investors including Shark Tank's Kevin O'Leary and billionaire
Frank McCourt have formally offered to buy it. ByteDance has repeatedly said TikTok is not for sale. Now, the app's lawyer told the justices that
once the ban goes into place, it will no longer be available on app stores. Service providers to the app will be prohibited from doing work with TikTok
and the app will essentially shut down.
CNN Legal Analyst Carrie Cordero joins me now. Carrie, thankful to have you here to try and parse this for illegally. I want to go first to what
happened today at the Supreme Court. I was kind of surprised that they really signaled in quite a transparent way that they were having none of
this that they -- the ban, they'd uphold the ban. I know we still have to wait for the final ruling. But what are your thoughts?
CARRIE CORDERO, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Yes. Listening to the oral arguments this morning, I agree, I think the justices really seemed overwhelmingly
aligned with the government's arguments and very skeptical of the council for TikTok and counsel for the creators who we brought -- who were
represented at the hearing this morning of their arguments.
[16:35:18]
And, you know, that does go along with what the lower court, the D.C. Circuit found, which overwhelmingly in their written opinion, aligned with
the government's arguments and was going to uphold the law. And so, it does look, at least based on today's oral arguments, that the Supreme Court also
will uphold the law.
NEWTON: Why were the First Amendment arguments here pretty much dismissed by the Supreme Court justices?
CORDERO: Well, it will be interesting to see what their written analysis is. One of the questions -- one line of questioning that the justices had
was really what level of scrutiny under First Amendment jurisprudence they should apply, whether it should be strict scrutiny. And if they did use
strict scrutiny to do this analysis in this particular First Amendment case, then what they would show is that there is -- the government proved
there was both a compelling interest, which in this case is the national security arguments that the government has made.
And then also that the law was narrowly tailored. In my view, that's where counsel for TikTok could have had the most opportunity to argue against the
fact that the law is narrowly tailored, because really it just orders divestiture and if there is no divestiture, then the app will no longer be
available to American users.
NEWTON: Do you think this has implications down the line in terms of a chilling effect? Because that first amendment argument clearly, if it
doesn't work this time, it likely will not work again. I mean, it kind of throws everything up in the air, does it not?
CORDERO: So, I do think that this case is, first of all, quite novel, and does open the door for potential other limits on access to information by
Americans, if the Supreme Court does uphold the law. Normally, as a national security lawyer, I am quite sympathetic to the government's
National Security arguments. But in this particular case, because it involves access to information, this isn't just about divestiture of any
type of company that that makes things or does other kinds of work in the country.
This is about access to information. And from that perspective, I do think it opens the door to arguments being made in a different political
environment, or down the road that other social media platforms or technology platforms or media outlets are being influenced by malign
adversaries, foreign adversaries, and that that could open the door for other laws like this, which would limit Americans access to information.
NEWTON: Yes. It's interesting when you think about it, because we do not know what social media platforms will look like in the future. So, if they
have an investor, perhaps that the United States government determines is a national security risk, they too would be implicated, right?
CORDERO: That's right. And in this particular case, the record in this case is, of course, unclassified, and then there was classified information
provided to the D.C. Circuit, but that -- and classified information provided to Congress would initially pass the law. But the government has
not declassified any substantial information supporting its arguments about what it alleges the Chinese government is actually doing.
It has made more of an argument that the Chinese government could potentially manipulate the content that Americans consume on the app.
NEWTON: Yes. It was interesting to hear the oral arguments. The TikTok lawyer seemed to be going down that road, but didn't quite close the deal.
As far as I'm concerned, I'm no lawyer, but when I was listening to some of the oral arguments. Really fascinating stuff, Carrie. It's a story we'll
continue to follow. Thanks so much. Appreciate it.
CORDERO: Great. Thank you.
NEWTON: Now, the Los Angeles Fire Chief says favorable weather helped crews fight the wildfires overnight. Now, unfortunately, the wind fueling the
blazes, it could pick up again. We'll check the latest forecast after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:42:13]
NEWTON: The curfew has now been imposed in some areas impacted by the wildfires in Los Angeles County, it will be in effect from 6:00 p.m. to
6:00 a.m. local time.
Four major infernos still raging. The sheriff comparing the devastation to the aftermath of an atomic bomb. And look at these pictures. It's not an
exaggeration. About 150,000 people still under mandatory evacuation orders at this hour and at least 10 people are confirmed to have died so far.
Officials warn the true toll won't be known until it's safe for investigators to go into those impacted areas.
I want to bring in CNN's Chad Myers. Chad, you've been watching the winds so closely. By now, we all understand what this means. If they do pick up,
what's the forecast going into the weekend?
CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: The forecast for today, for the next -- let's call 16 hours, is very good. I've been looking at the radar and the
radar will show you a raindrop, it will show you snowflake. It will also show you the ash in the sky. And for right now, we don't have a major run
of ash anywhere on that radar. Now we don't have a lot of containment. The bigger the area here, the larger the circumference of the outside of the
ring of fire.
So, it takes a longer time to get containment with only eight percent of Palisades. And I wouldn't be surprised if some of that containment is the
Pacific Ocean. And here the Eaton fire, only three percent of it contained. The numbers only go up when the firefighters are absolutely sure that this
is not the fire, will not jump that line. And we've had winds this direction all week, but now they're kind of coming back and on shore.
That's going to bring up some humidity, a little bit of help. Maybe not have such dry land out there such dry brush. But even though the next 16
hours look really, really good. Then we start to bring in more winds, really, on Sunday. And significant winds in Malibu, 44 miles per hour,
again, that's over 60 kilometers per hour, pushing offshore, fanning the fuel again. At some point in time, can't go too much, much farther that way
because, well, the Pacific Ocean is in the way.
These swirling winds, though, also hinder firefighters a little bit, because the head of the fire, although it was going to the southwest, now
it may be going to the east. So, we have to watch that, and the firefighters have to watch the wind shifts. There are incident
meteorologists on staff, 24 hours a day, watching for those wind shifts to alert the firefighters. This orange area right through here match it up to
severe drought.
And Paula, I was right there. Nine and a half months ago covering a flash flood. That's how this has swung from one thing to another.
[16:45:04]
Mud coming out of the hills. And now all of a sudden there's no rain. Hasn't been any rain. Not going to be any rain anytime soon. I can't see
any rain for the next 21 days. This is rainy season. This is what one of the Palisades looks like. Here's this is Frontera right there. That --
these -- watch these three houses right here. Likely newer construction, and they're still there, but all the other homes just gone.
Here's Malibu. These are all very old structures here. They obviously renovated, but you can't do much because your grandfathered in to have the
spot. But you can't just build some giant new condo complex, and then look how close together they are. And when the wind came down that hill, all
those sparks landed right there along the roadway and those beautiful, I mean, multimillion dollar USD houses are in flames.
NEWTON: Yes. It definitely brings rebuilding into question. But my gosh, 21 days out and you don't see any rain, we certainly hope that the next 24 to
36 hours, at least, when they get that calming wind, will allow them to contain so much more of these fires. Chad Myers, thank you again.
Now at least 10,000 properties you just saw some of the photos have been destroyed in the fires. These are live pictures now from Pasadena. You
heard Chad say, right? Firefighters have started to put up some containment lines against the two largest infernos, but there's still so much further
to go. We're seeing before and after pictures like the ones Chad just showed us that really put the damage in perspective.
To be honest, these live pictures, to me, are also just so devastating. Tom Foreman joins us now to tell us about all of this. It's just so hard to
come to terms with, because in so many natural disasters that we've seen, and unfortunately, seen so many in the last few months. The magnitude of
this is still so hard to comprehend.
TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes. I don't think we really have the slightest grasp of it right now. I think when you hear numbers like 10,000
structures gone, you know, my experience is that's guesswork right now. They don't really know how many structures are gone out there. They don't
know what has been lost. You look at those before and after pictures, and you get an idea of how devastating this has been to certain communities out
there where they were literally days ago, simply going about their normal lives.
And now this comes through, and in many cases, there are very few buildings left, sometimes for blocks and blocks and blocks. Ironically, you see
chimneys surviving, which kind of, in a sense of physics, makes sense, but is also a terrible thing to see. And I'll point out something out here,
Paula. This isn't just the communities. These are the working communities of people who live in L.A.
If you go as a tourist, you may go to see the Hollywood sign or the Capitol Records building or the Walk of Fame or Universal Studios. This is where
the people live who work there in places like Altadena and to some degree, in Pacific Palisades. These are the people who are the cornerstone of the
music business and the movie business and the T.V. business out there. So, they haven't just lost their homes, either.
In many cases, you see gathering places like coffee shops and restaurants that are very, very popular. Some of the trails that people would normally
hike out there along the Pacific Coast Highway. PCH, the trails above there, which are crowded on weekends with lots of people out there enjoying
nature. Those have been turned into ashes. Churches have been wiped out. The Presbyterian Church over in Pacific Palisades had, you know, just has a
notice saying, hey, for now, we're just trying to find a place to be because our church is gone.
And then, of course, some giant -- really huge landmarks out there, like the 1920s ranch house and stables of the noted humorist at the time. Will
Rogers, as big a celebrity as this country had back in the 1920s, his home was out there. State operated as a place you could visit and see and look
around. They got some artwork out. They got the horses out. Basically, all the rest of it burned to the ground.
Historic Artifacts gone. And for so many families, their personal historic artifacts gone because it happened so quickly. They didn't have enough time
to think about it, to get ready for it. And I will say, having covered a lot of hurricanes, this happened a lot quicker for many people than
hurricanes do. You often have a sense that it's coming. You can at least get ready, you know you're in the hurricane zone.
Yes. They know they have wildfires there, but I'll assure you, many people who have been affected now never thought their community would be subject
to this kind of intense wildfire.
NEWTON: Yes. It is hard. A lot of people have gratitude, Tom, for having gotten out in time, and then they see the destruction. They know they've
survived the one challenge, which is great, but they've got so many more challenges ahead for them and the whole community. Tom Foreman --
(CROSSTALK)
FOREMAN: -- and you know how emotionally a lot of that can hit them weeks from now, even months from now.
[16:50:01]
NEWTON: Later, I know. The resiliency, they're going to have to have a well of it to really count on in the weeks and months to come. Tom Foreman for
us. Thanks so much. Appreciate it.
FOREMAN: You're welcome.
NEWTON: Now, Nicolas Maduro has been sworn in for a third term as president of Venezuela. We'll give you the latest on the opposition's pushback on
what was the results of what they say is a contested election.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
NEWTON: Opposition activists in Venezuela are condemning today's inauguration of Nicolas Maduro. They say it's a coup d'etat and are vowing
a new phase in the fight for freedom. President Maduro was sworn in for a third term in Caracas. The disputed election has sparked months of
protests. International observers say the vote was undemocratic, and the opposition says it was proof that its candidate Edmundo Gonzalez won in a
landslide. President Maduro said he is the country's duly elected leader.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NICOLAS MADURO, PRESIDENT OF VENEZUELA (through translator): I was not put here by the U.S. government or by any pro imperialist government of the
Latin American right. I'm here because I come from the people.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NEWTON: Stefano Pozzebon is in Bogota and he's been covering this for us. I mean, look, the day started early with his swearing in earlier than we
expected, and largely uneventful in terms of what the opposition has been promising.
STEFANO POZZEBON, CNN REPORTER: Yes, indeed, Paula. Well, the event started early because Nicolas Maduro pulled forward his inauguration ceremony.
There were a few funny moments, if you will, with the president of Nicaragua, Daniel Ortega, storming into the ceremony halfway through and
the ambassador from Russia, sorry, the envoy from Russia also arriving halfway through Maduro's speech.
The speech, by the way, lasted more than 90 minutes itself. And then the opposition we had more and more expectations turning around when the
opposition would finally make a pronouncement. It arrived, came from Maria Corina Machado, who had words of defiance against Maduro, but offer no
concrete root of what comes next. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARIA CORINA MACHADO, VENEZUELAN OPPOSITION LEADER (through translator): Today, January 10th, Maduro consolidates a coup d'etat in front of the
Venezuelans and in front of the world. They decided to cross the red line that officializes the violation of the national constitution. They step
over our constitution. Maduro violates the constitution and also backed up by the dictators of Cuba and Nicaragua. This says everything.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[16:50:09]
POZZEBON: And they had told us that their candidate Edmundo Gonzalez, who is currently in the Dominican Republic, was due to travel to Caracas to
challenge personally Maduro that Mario Corina said in that video that she advised Gonzalez not to travel to Caracas. He responded saying that he will
speak to supporters in the next hour or so, and we'll make sure to bring it up.
But it really feels like a Deja vu here because you and I've been here more than once with Maduro once again, cementing his power through more and more
repression, through more and more isolation, perhaps right now, the border is closed from Venezuela to both Colombia and Brazil. But Maduro very
comfortable in his presidential palace.
And just before you let me go, Paula, one thing that you will care about, and most investors around the world will care about, is what happens to the
oil sanctions. Because today, the White House slammed new sanctions against members of the government or the Venezuelan elite. But right now, there is
still one major oil company, Chevron allowed to operate in Venezuela and most investors will look, if the new president, Donald Trump, will have a
look at reviewing that special license that grants Chevron the permission to operate in Venezuela despite an oil embargo for all U.S. companies when
it comes to Venezuela.
I was able to participate in a background call with U.S. officials earlier today. Well, that was the first question that my colleagues asked the White
House about the Chevron license. The White House say that it's not planning to review it for now, but things could change very, very quickly. Paula.
NEWTON: And just tee this up for everyone in the next 10 days, Donald Trump will be certainly sworn in with the Secretary of State Marco Rubio, if he
is confirmed, has followed the issues in Venezuela very closely for several years. Stefano Pozzebon, thanks so much for the update. Appreciate it.
Coming up. It was, yes, a miserable day on Wall Street. We'll have the final numbers right after
This.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
NEWTON: So, U.S. markets sunk after a very hot jobs report, substantial losses across the major indices. You see them there, all down better than
1-1/2 percent. Delta shares rallied nine percent after putting up a strong fourth quarter. The airline beat expectations on profit and revenue and
says it expects a record profit to come in the year ahead.
[17:00:06]
And that is QUEST MEANS BUSINESS. I'm Paula Newton. Have a great weekend. "THE LEAD" with Jake Tapper starts right now.
END
