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Defense Secretary Pick Pete Hegseth Grilled By US Senators; Source: Netanyahu Will Hold Urgent Meeting On Potential Gaza Deal With Top Security Officials; Showdown In South Korea Over Attempt To Detain President Yoon; Winds Haven't Been As Strong As Feared Today; Los Angeles Fires Could Cause Up To $20 Billion In Insured Losses; Misinformation And Conspiracy Theories Spreading Over L.A. Fires; TikTok Denies Reports Of Potential Sale To Elon Musk. Aired 4-5p ET
Aired January 14, 2025 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[16:00:14]
JIM SCIUTTO CNN HOST: As you can see there, US stocks posting modest gains as traders await tomorrow's key inflation data. Those are the markets and
these are the main events.
A contentious hearing for Pete Hegseth, Donald Trump's nominee for Defense Secretary faces questions about his personal past, as well as his policy
positions.
South Korean authorities try once again to execute an arrest warrant for President Yoon.
And pure fiction, TikTok denies it is considering a sale to Elon Musk.
Live from Washington. It is Tuesday, January 14th. I'm Jim Sciutto, sitting in for Richard Quest and this is QUEST MEANS BUSINESS.
Good evening.
Tonight, a fiery hearing on Capitol Hill between US senators and Donald Trump's pick for Defense Secretary. Pete Hegseth faced over four hours of
questions about his ability to run The Pentagon. He is one of Trump's most controversial Cabinet picks.
Hegseth emphasized that he wants the US Military to focus on readiness for war. He faced sharp questions about his view on women in combat and
opposition to combat roles for them, and he was asked about allegations, several of them of sexual misconduct and excessive drinking.
(Begin VT)
SEN. TIM KAINE (D-VA): Many of your work colleagues have said that you show up for work under the influence of alcohol or drunk. I know you've denied
that, but you would agree with me, right, that if that was the case, that would be disqualifying for somebody to be Secretary of Defense.
PETE HEGSETH, US DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE SECRETARY NOMINEE: Senator, those are all anonymous false claims. And the totality --
KAINE: They're not -- they're not anonymous.
We have seen records with names attached to all of these, including the name of your own mother. So don't make this into some anonymous press
thing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: Our Manu Raju is on Capitol Hill, and going into this nomination, when his name was first announced, there were a lot of folks I talked to on
the Hill who questioned whether he could get through.
But when you heard the questions from Republican senators today, and of course, they have the majority, I mean, I didn't even hear questions from
several of them. I heard straight out praise.
Does it look like he is going to get through at this point?
MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It really does, Jim. There really is no Republican senator who has come out in opposition to his
nomination, including on the Senate Armed Services Committee, Senator Joni Ernst, for one. The Iowa Republican had been noncommittal of sorts for some
time.
She has had a number of private conversations with him, and then today, she had a very friendly exchange with Hegseth, which really leads to people to
believe that she will be a yes vote.
In fact, I just talked to the Senate Armed Services Committee Chairman, Roger Wicker, and I asked him if he believes all the Republicans on his
committee will vote to confirm Pete Hegseth and he said, yes, he does believe so.
He also wants to have a vote in his committee by next week, and potentially this means that could be on the floor of the full United States Senate by
next week.
And remember, in order to get confirmed by the senate, you only need a simple majority, and the Republicans now have a 53 to 47 majority in the
Senate, meaning that he can afford to lose three Republican votes and still be confirmed. Four would be enough to scuttle that nomination.
And the Senate Republican Leader, John Thune, I asked him about if he had any concerns about those misconduct allegations, allegations of sexual
assault and the like, and he said that he believes that Hegseth, "acquitted" himself well today, and they want to move quickly on this
nomination.
So, it shows you where the party is going. There are still some members in the middle of the Senate GOP who could potentially vote no. We will see how
they ultimately come down, but there is a lot of belief that even if there are a couple of GOP defections, that's probably not going to be enough to
stop him from getting the job even as Democrats object.
They are concerned about these proceedings. They say that they want to see this FBI background check that has only been afforded to the top two
members of the Senate Armed Services Committee. But despite those complaints, Jim, they simply don't have the votes to stop this nomination.
They could slow it down by a couple of days, but that's about it.
SCIUTTO: Yes. Big difference. Manu Raju on the Hill, thanks so much.
Well, senators today repeatedly brought up the role of women in uniform, specifically in combat. New York Democrat Kirsten Gillibrand criticized
Hegseth over his past expressions of opposition to women serving in combat.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. KIRSTEN GILLIBRAND (D-NY): If you are saying that women shouldn't be serving in the military, and I am going to read you your quotes because the
quotes themselves are terrible. You will have to change how you see women to do this job well and I don't know if you are capable of that.
Youve denigrated active duty servicemembers. We have hundreds, hundreds of women who are currently in the infantry, lethal members of our military
serving in the infantry, but you degrade them.
You say, we need moms, but not in the military, especially in combat units.
[16:05:08]
HEGSETH: I have never disparaged women serving in the military. I respect every single female service member that has put on the uniform, past and
present. My critiques, Senator, recently and in the past, and from personal experience have been instances where I've seen standards lowered.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: Standards lowered. That's quite an allegation.
General Wesley Clark is a former NATO Supreme Allied Commander and the founder of Renew America Together. He joins me now.
Good to have you on, sir. I wonder when you hear that. I mean, he is saying that women got in because standards were lowered, and it wasn't the only
time he said that during these hearings. Is there anything to back that up?
GEN. WESLEY CLARK (RET), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: No, but you hear talk like that a lot. And, you know, I want to say this, Jim, you know, he -- Pete
Hegseth has been down, you know, with the units and you hear a lot of things in units.
And I think when he -- I think he will be confirmed and when he is confirmed, I think he is going to get a different view. He is going to have
a different view, he is going to have different facts coming in. And I think his opinions will change.
But I always think that our leadership is very careful to maintain, set the right standards and do it in a way that maintains the effectiveness of our
Armed Forces, and I think our Armed Forces are effective.
SCIUTTO: I heard a lot in this hearing of culture war issues, which is, of course, been one of his favorite topics about a woke military, et cetera. I
heard very little discussion of what The Pentagon identifies as the greatest threats to US National Security -- Russia, China, North Korea,
Iran.
He was not pressed on how he would lead The Pentagon against those threats, or put America in a better position against those threats. Is that a
failure of a hearing for the nominee to lead the largest military in the world?
CLARK: Well, I think the senators should have asked these questions, but really, this is President Trump's responsibility. He is going to set the
policy direction for the United States and that has been made very clear by President Trump.
And so I think, Hegseth is going to follow along on his book. He believes the greatest enemies are within, the pressure against the warriors, as he
said. But I think when he becomes Secretary of Defense, he is going to have a different view.
In reality, Jim, he is going to have huge challenges. He wants to be a change agent. $800 billion, three million people, very, very complicated
systems. You can't just -- it is not like leading a platoon or a company. It is not like getting eight or ten people together and saying, guys, let's
go for it now.
I mean, it is just so much more difficult, but he does have Congress on his side with the Republican Majority. He does have a very popular president
who wants him in office, and so -- and he is facing and the president is facing some enormous geopolitical challenges right off the bat.
So it is going to be a really a difficult time, I think, Jim for Pete Hegseth.
SCIUTTO: Let me ask you this, because the personal allegations about the drinking, the infidelity, even allegations which he denies of sexual
assault, you know, having served in uniform that the standards for uniformed members of the military are quite high and that those behaviors,
you would likely be drummed out of the force for those behaviors if you were in uniform.
What does that mean for the respect of the people in that building? The three million people serving in the US Military more broadly, to have
someone with those allegations against him serving at a leadership position at the top of the organization?
CLARK: Well, it is going to certainly raise doubts in the minds, especially of the senior leaders who are very confident -- very sensitive to these
kinds of allegations and have been through these things.
But I think, you know, he is going to be the Secretary of Defense. It is the law of the land. They're going to give him the benefit of the doubt.
They're going to watch. They're going to keep their concerns to themselves, and I think they're going to hope that he does a good job. We all want an
effective, strong Secretary of Defense.
SCIUTTO: General Wesley Clark, thanks so much, as always for joining.
CLARK: Thank you, Jim.
SCIUTTO: Well, to the Middle East now.
A source tells CNN the Israeli prime minister will hold an urgent meeting with top security officials as ceasefire negotiations appear to be entering
their final stages.
The potential agreement would be implemented in three phases. Thirty-three Israeli hostages released in the first phase. Israel will then release
hundreds of Palestinian prisoners in exchange, including some convicted of killing Israelis. Israel will maintain a military presence in Gaza.
[16:10:10]
Palestinian civilians in Gaza would be allowed to return to the northern part.
The discussions are giving new hope to those who live there.
Paula Hancocks has more.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
PAULA HANCOCKS, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice over): This is the closest these girls can get to going to school in Gaza.
Trying to teach each other in this school building turned displacement center, desperate for an end to the war, which abruptly stopped their
education, their safety, their normality 15 months ago.
Saba Ahmed Abu Ouda (ph) remembers her friends. Girls, she says, were killed in Beit Hanoun at the start of the war.
(SABA AHMED ABU OUDA speaking in foreign language.)
HANCOCKS (voice over): "We used to play together," she says. "Make lunch, do our homework and study. We did everything together."
"I'm sad, I won't find them when I go home."
Nor (ph) is 12 years old and has been displaced, she says seven times during this war, she wants to go home to see what happened to her school
friend, who she hasn't heard from for a year after her home was destroyed.
(NOR speaking in foreign language.)
HANCOCKS (voice over): "I just want to go home," she says. "I want my belongings, my toys, my memories."
Northern Gaza has been decimated by Israeli airstrikes in recent months. There is no guarantee Nor's family will have a home to go back to.
Abdulrahman Salama (ph) digs through the rubble of his home in Khan Younis, hoping to find a blanket or a mattress, anything to help his family living
in a tent by the winter sea.
(ABDULRAHMAN SALAMA speaking in foreign language.)
HANCOCKS (voice over): "There are no memories," he says. "Our life has vanished. There is no future."
He calls negotiations, lies. Saying, "We celebrate a little until we see a drone strike, an artillery shell hit, or the quadcopter shoot at us."
(ABU SAMIYA speaking in foreign language.)
HANCOCKS (voice over): Abu Samiya walks through his neighborhood, a place he says residents no longer recognize. He asks about the day after.
(ABU SAMIYA speaking in foreign language.)
HANCOCKS (voice over): "Let's say a truce happens," he says. "And the residents of this area return. Where do they go? Is this area fit for
humans to live in?"
Ahmed Salama tries to repair one room in his destroyed home mixing sand and water to make clay. He says he kept waiting to do this, thinking
negotiations would work, but he now needs to move his family from a tent on the coast, which collapses every time it rains.
(AHMED SALAMA speaking in foreign language.)
HANCOCKS (voice over): "They say the same thing every time," he says, "But nothing happens. We want anything. Anything is better than this."
With 90 percent of the population displaced, the dream of going home is prevalent. Even when they know their home is likely just rubble.
Amohamed Abu Ubayd (ph) knows her house is unlikely to have survived in the largely leveled city of Rafah in the south.
(AMOHAMED ABU UBAYD speaking in foreign language.)
HANCOCKS (voice over): "I swear, when the ceasefire comes," she says, "I will celebrate and rejoice and I will not sleep all night. We hope that
this cloud of despair finally lifts."
Hope and despair go hand in hand in Gaza. A ceasefire has been close before, and yet the bombs still fell.
Paula Hancocks, CNN Abu Dhabi.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCIUTTO: So much suffering there.
Well, Antony Blinken gave new details of his vision for postwar Gaza in a speech to the Atlantic Council. The US Secretary of State says there cannot
be a power vacuum. He says the Palestinian Authority should invite international partners to run an interim administration, and that Israel
needs to accept its rule over an eventual Palestinian state.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANTONY BLINKEN (US Secretary of State): Israelis must abandon the myth that they can carry out de facto annexation without cost and consequence to
Israel's democracy, to its standing, to its security.
Israel is expanding official settlements and nationalizing land at a faster clip than any time in the last decade, while turning a blind eye to
unprecedented growth in illegal outposts, violent attacks by extremist settlers against Palestinian civilians have reached record levels.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: Gerald Feierstein is the director of the Arabian Peninsula Affairs Program at the Middle East Institute. He previously served as US Ambassador
to Yemen. He joins me now.
Ambassador, thanks so much for taking the time.
GERALD FEIERSTEIN, DIRECTOR, ARABIAN PENINSULA AFFAIRS PROGRAM, MIDDLE EAST INSTITUTE: It's a pleasure to be with you today, Jim.
SCIUTTO: First on this deal, because you look at the outlines of this deal, the three phases, et cetera, and that's basically what has been on the
table for months now. And I wonder, what do you think made the difference? Is it Donald Trump's threats? Is it a final diplomatic effort by President
Biden? Perhaps the combination of the two?
[16:15:10]
FEIERSTEIN: Well, I think that the fact that the inauguration for Donald Trump's second term is going to be in a week is certainly a significant
factor in the decision, particularly on the Israeli side, to go ahead and agree to this agreement, which, as you said, has been available to the two
parties for months and months.
And so, I think that that certainly the president-elect's statements that he wants to see this thing done before he takes office is important. And
has certainly played on Benjamin Netanyahu's mind that he wants to do something that is going to put him in good stead with the new
administration. This is an important one.
SCIUTTO: Do you believe that President Biden failed to put the right amount of pressure on Netanyahu? Is there a fundamental difference in their
relationship because Biden wanted a deal along these lines, as did, we should say, hostage families and a majority of Israelis and even members of
Netanyahu's government, Yoav Gallant and others, they've wanted it for months.
What is it that Biden didn't do or did wrong to get this deal across the line -- the finish line earlier?
FEIERSTEIN: Well, I think that certainly the fact that President Biden held back from really putting any teeth into his demands that the Israelis move
faster to agree to a ceasefire was a major factor. I think that Benjamin Netanyahu, weighing the various issues on his plate, the danger to his own
governing coalition if he agreed to the agreement, and the fact that he did not have the same relationship with Joe Biden that he has with Donald
Trump, certainly played into that.
So I think that, yes, Joe Biden should have been stronger. He should have been more insistent with the Israelis to get them to agree, and now we are
where we are.
SCIUTTO: Yes. The deal allows Israeli troops to remain on what is known as the Philadelphi Corridor in the southern part of Gaza, bordering Egypt.
That was a sticking point for Hamas, and there were even some Israeli officials, Yoav Gallant among them, who said that wasn't necessary. That is
in effect, I suppose, a concession by Hamas.
Why do you believe Hamas is making that, or appears to be making that concession at this point?
FEIERSTEIN: Well, I think that Hamas also sees the change in the US and the other factors at the time has come to make an agreement. The Philadelphi
Corridor issue, of course, is important to Egypt as it is to Hamas. The rules governing the corridor were part of the Israel-Egypt Peace Agreement.
And so the Egyptians also had to agree to it. I assume that Hamas thinks that regardless of the Israeli presence, they can continue with their
efforts to rebuild their presence in Gaza.
SCIUTTO: Well, we will see if this deal does get across the finish line in the coming days. The families certainly would love to hear that news.
Ambassador Gerald Feierstein, we do appreciate you joining.
FEIERSTEIN: It has been a pleasure. Thank you.
SCIUTTO: Coming up, we are following breaking news out of Seoul, South Korea, where a standoff is now underway as authorities there try once again
to detain the impeached President Yoon.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:21:37]
SCIUTTO: A dramatic showdown is playing out in Seoul, South Korea, where authorities are trying for a second time to detain the impeached President
Yoon Suk Yeol.
Mr. Yoon has been holed up in his fortified residence, surrounded by his Presidential Security Service. He is wanted for questioning over his short-
lived declaration of martial law.
Investigators tried and failed to carry out an arrest warrant earlier this month, just incredible to see this take place.
Mike Valerio is in Seoul. It is quite a scene to have police attempting to arrest a recently impeached president and his own security service standing
in the way. Where does it stand right now?
MIKE VALERIO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Jim, we are witnessing a challenge to democracy in front of our very eyes. So what is happening at this hour
before the sun has come up here in South Korea are police and corruption investigators trying to remove these barricades that have been set up by
the South Korean version of the presidential Secret Service, which is trying to prevent investigators from coming in and arresting South Korea's
suspended president.
So to bring you up to speed, as you alluded to, Jim, in the introduction to the segment, why this is all happening is because just over 40 days ago,
South Korea has now suspended President Yoon Suk Yeol decided to declare martial law, throw this country into chaos because, in short, his agenda
was not getting through the national legislature.
And from his point of view, he was saying, you know what? My opponents are loyal to North Korea and loyal to anti-state forces. I am going to stop the
democratic process and get this show back on the road again from his point of view.
So declaring martial law, having the military arrest his adversaries, imagine the military arresting, like Chuck Schumer and Nancy Pelosi in
South Korea, that was his idea of getting his agenda back in motion.
So what we are seeing right now in these very dark pictures, this is an attempt to hold him accountable for doing that. But, you know, Jim and our
viewers watching around the world, this could take days. We may not have an arrest because this is the second attempt happening in the next few hours,
we have a Secret Service that is loyal to this president, who is now going through an impeachment process, and that Secret Service does not want to
give him up.
It is extraordinary. It is extraordinary to be watching.
SCIUTTO: No question. So I wonder, as you're seeing police and investigators removing those barriers, I mean, is the implication here that
they are willing to use force even against the Presidential Security Service?
VALERIO: So, that's the huge question. And, you know, in the United States, when there was the question of whether Donald Trump was going to be
arrested after January 6th, all the hypotheticals of what would happen, we are witnessing it here in this democratic bastion in East Asia.
We don't know if force is going to be used between the police on the one side that want to arrest Yoon Suk Yeol, the elected president of South
Korea and the Secret Service. If there is force, God forbid, shots fired between the two. I mean, that would be insane. That would throw the country
further into chaos.
And that is why this is the second arrest attempt. They didn't want anybody to get hurt on the first arrest attempt. So I think it was around seven
hours that there was a standoff on January 3rd, and then both sides went back to the drawing board to figure out, can we do this? Can we arrest this
guy? Can we bring him in for questioning?
[16:25:19]
So that is a huge question. Will there be force used? We don't know.
SCIUTTO: And as you say, I mean it is a challenge to the functioning of democracy there. Via impeachment, President Yoon was stripped of his
presidential powers. So what options does he have short of, you know, hiding behind the walls of his palace right now? Does he have any options
to push back against this?
VALERIO: So that is, you know a question as always, Jim, that is his first option. Hide. And we've seen over the past few days imagine the White House
putting extra layers of barbed wire around it, or Number 10, or any presidential -- the Elysee Palace in Paris putting barbed wire around it.
That is option number one, keep hiding. Run out the clock.
Option number two, he and his allies have tried to say the investigators here are out of their league. It is called the Corruption Investigation
Office here in South Korea, and they are charged with investigating corruption. Yoon is saying that he is under investigation for rebellion,
and that is outside the scope of this investigating agency.
He is also questioning how they got a warrant in Central Seoul, not Western Seoul. So this whole thing is illegal. So he is trying to quibble with
legalities.
But at the heart of this, his opponents are saying you cannot just disagree with a warrant. We live in a democracy. If there is a warrant for your
arrest, you can't say, oh, I disagree with it. I am going to hold up in my compound. You have to comply with it. So he is going to perhaps hide and
perhaps quibble even more -- Jim.
SCIUTTO: What a scene.
We will continue, of course, to cover developments on the ground there in Seoul. Our thanks to Mike Valerio.
Back here in the US, the winds fueling the California wildfires have not been as strong today, thankfully, as feared. Officials are warning,
however, that the danger has not passed. We are going to get a live report from the scene just after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:30:23]
SCIUTTO: Hello, I'm Jim Sciutto. There is more QUEST MEANS BUSINESS in a moment when we're going to be live in Los Angeles County, where
firefighters are facing challenging conditions, to say the least, in putting out the raging wildfires there.
And pure fiction. TikTok slapped down rumors that it is in talks with Elon Musk about a potential sale. Before that, the headlines this hour.
Donald Trump's pick for U.S. Defense secretary faced tough questions at his sometimes contentious confirmation hearing today. Tough, at least from
Democrats. Pete Hegseth called allegations of sexual abuse and drinking problems anonymous smears. He also vowed to bring what he describes as a
warrior culture to the Pentagon.
An Israeli official says Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu will hold an urgent meeting with top security officials amid reports that Israel and
Hamas are now, quote, "closer than ever" to finalizing a Gaza ceasefire and hostage release deal. Qatar, which is hosting the indirect talks, says both
sides are now reviewing a draft agreement.
The Biden administration has announced that it will remove Cuba from the state sponsor of terrorism list. That move will come with a loosening of
U.S. sanctions. However, it is likely to be reversed by President-elect Trump, who added Cuba to that list in 2021.
The FAA is investigating a close call between two airplanes flying near the airport in Phoenix, Arizona. The passenger jets flew just 360 meters from
one another before making safe landings. That incident triggered alerts inside both cockpits. Both Delta Airlines and United said their pilots
reacted correctly.
The winds fueling the Los Angeles wildfires have not been as strong as feared today thankfully. Officials say however the danger is far from over.
Winds could get stronger again tonight. Firefighters have made some progress battling, containing those blazes. The Palisades Fire is now 17
percent contained. The Eaton Fire 35 percent contained. That said, a new blaze called the Auto Fire broke out in Ventura County late Monday. It has
prompted a swift response from local fire departments.
Veronica Miracle is in Altadena, California.
I'm curious, Veronica, can you tell me where the winds stand, right? Because the warnings seem to go back and forth. Where do they think the
winds are going in the coming hours and days?
VERONICA MIRACLE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, apparently the winds that were forecasted that were supposed to be really strong this morning actually
could be shifting to tomorrow. Firefighters also concerned that maybe later this afternoon it'll pick up. It's really hard for them to say. So they
have not taken down the alerts just yet. They still want people to be ready to go, which is of course causing so much stress here. And people are not
letting their guard down.
We're in Altadena, as you mentioned, but we were just in Ventura County where that Auto Fire broke out and firefighters they were on it right away
because they had teams really just scouting the county just in case something like that were to happen so they could jump on the fire and
contain it very quickly. But of course, they're concerned for the rest of the evening and into tomorrow that another fire could break out. So they're
on alert.
We're here in Altadena where you can see a firefighter in the back there. He's assessing the damage in this area. Many of these houses just
completely burned to the ground. And just right over this way, we're across the street from a National Guard checkpoint. People still not being allowed
back into their homes. But here on the corner where a house still is standing, one of the residents has decided that they are creating a
donation center.
It's really beautiful. They were going to do a few donations on Friday. It has since blossomed into this massive donation center on the corner.
They're now no longer taking any more clothing donations just because so many people have been so generous. In fact, they've received donations from
as far away as Indiana. So that's the good news here that people are really coming together. But there's a heightened alert for this wind event that is
expected through at least Wednesday -- Jim.
SCIUTTO: We know you'll be watching it closely. We certainly wish our best to the many residents there still suffering.
Veronica Miracle in Altadena, thank you.
[16:35:04]
Well, early estimates suggest the fires could cause up to $20 billion in insured losses. That would make it by far the largest wildfire insured loss
in U.S. history. Some insurers were already reducing coverage in California before the fires, considering it too risky because of the extreme weather.
The actor James Woods spoke to CNN hours after evacuating his own home last week. He says a major insurer pulled out of his neighborhood four months
ago.
All of this raises the question, once you rebuild, will any new homes have any chance of getting covered? How many of the homes destroyed are covered?
Mark Friedlander is the director of Corporate Communications at the Insurance Information Institute.
Mark, it's good to have you. Thanks so much for joining.
Thanks, Jim. Really appreciate it.
SCIUTTO: So first, a very basic question, because of that issue where many insurers pulled out and there is a state-backed plan called the Fair Plan
that helps backfill there. But do we know what percentage of destroyed homes actually have insurance?
MARK FRIEDLANDER, CORPORATE COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR, INSURANCE INFORMATION INSTITUTE: We don't at this point. Most of the victims are covered by
insurance. Unfortunately, some chose to completely drop insurance when their insurer may be non-renewed them and they decided not to get another
policy. So we have those issues, but hopefully most of the victims will be covered by insurance and wildfire loss is a standard coverage in all the
policies.
SCIUTTO: California has this fair plan. An insurer in effect of last resort run by the state. How has that helped back up some of these issues here,
where people have just had trouble getting any insurance for their homes?
FRIEDLANDER: When a homeowner can't get coverage through the private market, they are eligible for the Fair Plan. And the Fair Plan is a
restrictive plan, meaning it only covers wildfire losses. But that's the essential coverage that is required in this type of situation.
SCIUTTO: There has been some criticism that insurers were not allowed to price the risk adequately, to raise premiums to account for the risks of
wildfires. Do you believe that's a fair criticism, and that that led some of them to just pull out? Do you believe that's a fair criticism?
FRIEDLANDER: That is the driver of this issue. We call it the California risk crisis. It's been building for many years because of the inadequate
pricing allowed in California, very restrictive regulatory environment. The good news is the market is changing. There's a new sustainable insurance
strategy that's being implemented by the California Department of Insurance this year, and that will help stabilize the market. But unfortunately, it
took a crisis of this magnitude to really bring this to the forefront.
SCIUTTO: No question. So, listen, there's a lot between now and then because, first, you got to control the fires. People got to go home. They
got to get away, get rid of all the wreckage and begin rebuilding. But if most of these homes are rebuilt, will they have any chance of getting
insurance in the future?
FRIEDLANDER: They will. We expect the market to begin to stabilize based on the new strategy being rolled out by the Department of Insurance. Insurance
will be more readily available, and insurers will be able to price it at the appropriate risk rate, which has been the problem in the past.
SCIUTTO: I spoke to a fire official last week who made the point that some of this was made worse because you have older builds here, right? That
didn't have some of the fireproofing materials that some of the newer builds have. Does that make a difference? Do insurers notice that that
losses are reduced when investments are made in -- maybe fireproofing is not the right word, but, you know, elements in the construction that reduce
the risk of spreading fire?
FRIEDLANDER: We've seen some of the homes actually survive the fires because they were built with sustainable materials that are in a sense
fireproof, as well as what we call defensible spaces, meaning you move away, brush and other items away from the structure of the home. You don't
have mulch around your home.
There are ways to make your homes resilient to wildfires, and we've seen that in many areas across the country. So clearly, the construction and
just the risk mitigation tips are really important in trying to control the situation.
SCIUTTO: No question. Well, listen, we hope, most of all, we hope for quick relief for all those families.
Mark Friedlander, thanks so much for helping us understand it all.
FRIEDLANDER: Thanks so much for having me.
SCIUTTO: Well, misinformation and disinformation about the fires spread extremely quickly on social media. That includes conspiracies about the
origin of the fire as well as the government response.
[16:40:02]
That mis and disinformation is being peddled by some of the most influential people in this country as Donie O'Sullivan reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MEL GIBSON, ACTOR AND DIRECTOR: California has a lot of problems that sort of baffle the mind as far as why they do things.
DONIE O'SULLIVAN, CNN SENIOR CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Mel Gibson on FOX News prime time after losing his home in the California fires.
GIBSON: And then in the events like this, you sort of look, oh, is it on purpose, which it's an insane thing to think. But one begins to ponder
whether or not there is a purpose in mind. What could it be, you know? I don't know. Do they want the state empty? I don't know.
O'SULLIVAN: Conspiracy theories spreading like wildfire.
DEANNA LORRAINE, HOST, STEW PETERS NETWORK: This is an obvious land grab. They get them out of their homes this way and then they can build whatever
they want to build.
O'SULLIVAN: From the common refrain that it's all part of a government plots.
ALEX JONES, THE ALEX JONES SHOW: This is siege by design.
O'SULLIVAN: To suspected AI generated video and images falsely showing the fires approaching the iconic Hollywood sign. Fact-checkers working for Meta
have been debunking some of the misinformation on Facebook and Instagram.
MARK ZUCKERBERG, META CEO: Hey, everyone.
O'SULLIVAN: But last week Mark Zuckerberg announced this.
ZUCKERBERG: We're going to get rid of fact-checkers and replace them with community notes.
O'SULLIVAN: Replacing fact-checkers with community notes, a form of crowdsource fact-checking that is used on X. But critics say Zuckerberg
shouldn't be trying to emulate X, pointing to viral misinformation on that platform that goes unchecked.
Like this post viewed almost half a million times baselessly claiming DARPA, a wing of the Department of Defense, started the fires.
ELON MUSK, TESLA CEO: I'm here with the fire command team at the Palisades Fire.
O'SULLIVAN: Indeed, X's owner Elon Musk has spent the last week elevating conspiracy theories about the fires.
MUSK: What about water availability?
O'SULLIVAN: Responding to a post from disgraced conspiracy theorist Alex Jones that the fires are part of a globalist plot, Musk responded, "True".
(END VIDEOTAPE)
O'SULLIVAN (on-camera): And the California Governor Gavin Newsom has set up a Web site, he says, pushing back on some of this misinformation.
Look, there is a political debate to be had here about policies, about how to prevent devastation like this from happening again. But so much of what
we're seeing online from people like Elon Musk, some also from President- elect Trump, is just straight up misinformation.
Back to you.
SCIUTTO: And not helpful to people in the midst of a tragedy by any means.
Well, coming up, how sheep herders are using ancient grazing methods and modern technology to help protect Norway's coastal heathlands.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:45:47]
SCIUTTO: In Norway, coastal heathlands are home to many rare and endangered species. They also help to mitigate the effects of climate change.
Today on "Call to Earth," we visit a community where old meets new as sheep are combining ancient techniques with modern-day technology to conserve its
vitally important heathlands.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Iceland is one of the smallest municipalities in Norway. At the moment, we are about 750 people living here.
MAX FOSTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The coastal heathland which characterizes this breathtaking landscape was formed around 5,000 years ago
when early Norwegian settlers cleared the forests in order to graze their sheep.
Ancient techniques for managing the land have been passed down from old to young through the generations ever since.
KJELL MONGSTAD, CHAIRMAN, HARDBAKKE OLD NORWEGIAN SHEEP SOCIETY: My name is Kjell Mongstad. I'm the head of the Board for this association of wild
sheeps. The sheeps are the original sheep, old Norwegian wild sheep.
FOSTER: While the sheep clearly rely on the heathland, it seems that the reverse is also true. Grazers prevent taller shrubs from growing, allowing
heathlands plants to thrive.
K. MONGSTAD: That's what they eat in the wintertime. They need it. That's the way they survive.
FOSTER: Many rare and endangered species call this habitat home. By protecting and restoring them the community here is safeguarding
biodiversity that's vital for maintaining a healthy planet. But the community here isn't just living in the past. With old also learning from
young, they're pioneering a new technology to improve the ancient art of sheep herding.
TRULS EINEN OSLAND, STUDENT: We're changing battery on the necklace so we can track them where they are. Instead of using fence we have an app that's
called "No Fence" so we can set up a fake fence and stop them from going places where they shouldn't go.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So I want them to go to and pick up some seaweed. Now they need seaweed.
OSLAND: I can move the fence wherever I want, so if I want them to go a long distance away, I can just open the fence where I want.
GUNN AMDAL MONGSTAD, MAYOR, HARDBAKKE: It's important to meet between generations, between different cultures. As you also can see here, to build
a strong relationship.
FOSTER: Community and inclusion are at the heart of the Sheep Association, with multiple generations working together.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm his grandfather. He's my grandson.
K. MONGSTAD: It's a lot of things the animal will do in the future for me and for us in the society. I hope we also can be an example for other to do
the same way. That involved children, youths and the different generations. I hope so.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: We hope so, too. Let us know what you're doing to answer the call with the hashtag "Call to Earth."
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:52:04]
SCIUTTO: TikTok denies reports that Elon Musk might take over its U.S. operations, calling that story, quote, "pure fiction." Both the "Wall
Street Journal" and Bloomberg say that Chinese officials have considered the move among other possibilities.
TikTok, you may remember, could be banned in the U.S. starting next week unless it finds a non-Chinese owner. That is, assuming the Supreme Court
allows that law passed with a large bipartisan majority in Congress to stand.
Other potential buyers have expressed interest. A team involving investor Kevin O'Leary has made a formal offer. Walmart and Microsoft were looking
at it during the first Trump administration, and Bobby Kotick, the former CEO of Activision Blizzard, has reportedly pitched to investors as well.
Clare Duffy is in New York now.
Clare, first question here. Is there a reason why China might prefer Elon Musk buy TikTok over some of the others who've offered?
CLARE DUFFY, CNN BUSINESS WRITER: Yes, Jim, this is an interesting timing for this report because China has repeatedly pushed back on the idea that
TikTok is for sale. ByteDance has also repeatedly said that it is not interested in selling off TikTok. And yet now we are hearing some
conversation about the possibility that TikTok could potentially be sold to Elon Musk. And I think there are a number of reasons why China might see
Elon Musk as maybe a more attractive American buyer if TikTok doesn't win its challenge to the Supreme Court.
First, the fact that Tesla, which still comprises much of Musk's wealth, is heavily reliant on the Chinese market. The Chinese market is Tesla's second
largest market. It does a lot of manufacturing there. Musk has had a number of meetings with Chinese officials over the years related to Tesla, said he
wants to increase cooperation with China. At the same time, Musk also has Trump's ear.
We know he's become one of the present incoming presidents most important advisers, and China may be looking to use this deal as leverage in
conversations with the Trump administration over the massive tariffs that Trump has threatened against the country that could really harm China's
economy.
So China may be looking at this as sort of a negotiating tactic, an opportunity to give Elon Musk and his friend Donald Trump something that
they might want and then potentially get something that they need as well.
And for Trump, too, I mean, we've heard Trump say that he wants to save TikTok. That was a campaign promise. So if he's willing to give this deal
his blessing, he then could also say that he's fulfilled this promise to save TikTok.
And then, of course, for Musk, I mean, this would be a great deal for him. TikTok has 170 million monthly American users. Its ad business is much more
successful than the ad business on X, and also the videos, the data on TikTok could feed into his artificial intelligence company, XAI. So you can
see how this would sort of be a win for all of these parties.
Now, of course, TikTok is denying this. We heard from spokesperson Michael Hughes, who said the company can't be expected to comment on pure fiction,
as you said there, Jim, but it's sounding like for a lot of logical reasons, this could make sense for many folks on many sides of this deal.
[16:55:00]
SCIUTTO: Well, I mean, there's another aspect of this, right? I mean, Musk already controls X, which he's used as a massive political tool, including
in the most recent election to add TikTok to that. I don't know how he would use it, but it has far more users than X. I mean, there's a political
aspect to this as well, is there not?
DUFFY: I mean, yes, it would give Musk, I mean, even more power than he already has. He's already the world's richest man. He owns this massive
social media platform. This would just add to his existing portfolio. I think one question is how TikTok users would respond to this. I mean, we've
seen a lot of users flee from X over the controversial decisions that Musk has made the toxic content that we've seen pop up there.
And as I'm scrolling TikTok today, I'm seeing some users who are worried that TikTok could go in the same direction if Musk were to acquire it. Some
folks saying that they actually think a ban of TikTok would be better than Musk buying the app.
I want to play for you just one of these videos that I came across today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The idea of TikTok going away is scary. But you know what's scarier? Elon Musk owning it. That is absolutely (EXPLETIVE DELETED)
terrifying. I would rather this app be banned before I see that (EXPLETIVE DELETED) own it. I mean, honestly, the idea of this turning into a Twitter,
scary. Absolutely.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DUFFY: So if we see users leaving TikTok, I mean, it's much the same story that we saw with X where Musk shelled out tens of billions of dollars.
That's likely what he would have to do again here. But then users leave and the business disintegrates. It may not actually end up being a very good
deal for him.
SCIUTTO: Perhaps. Clare Duffy, we'll be watching. Thanks so much.
Coming up, we will have the final numbers from Wall Street right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome to THE LEAD. I'm Jake Tapper.
This hour, fears of a frightening and challenging night ahead for California firefighters who are already working around the clock as
wildfires blaze wind gusts up to 50 miles per hour are possible tonight. Gusts that could potentially both further fuel the flames and even start
new fires.
Our teams are spread out across the region with all the latest details for you.
END