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Quest Means Business
Supreme Court Upholds TikTok Ban, Trump Says It's Up To Him; US TikTok Users Flock To RedNote App; Full Israeli Cabinet Set To Vote On Ceasefire Hostage Deal; Trump Inauguration Moving Indoors Due To Cold Temperatures; Federal Workers Await "Department Of Government Efficiency". Aired 4-5p ET
Aired January 17, 2025 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[16:00:03]
RICHARD QUEST, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST, "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS": Closing bell ringing on Wall Street as the Dow is headed for its best week since
November. It is not often you see this consistency of the session. It goes up right at to the start, not a huge range, but that green, largely tech
based over the course of the trading.
Remember, they broke the gavel yesterday. We will have a -- oh, that's it. That's what we like, sir. Three solid gavels. That's the way the Dow, take
a look at the triple stack and see how that has been performing with the best of the day going to the NASDAQ.
Those are the headlines, the new financial headlines, now, the news of the day: The US Supreme Court clears the way for TikTok ban to take effect on
Sunday.
Israel's Cabinet reportedly meeting now expected to vote on the ceasefire deal with Hamas. The first group of Israeli hostages could be released this
weekend.
And freezing temperatures forcing Donald Trump to move his Inauguration indoors.
Live from London on Friday. It is January the 17th. I am Richard Quest and at the end of this busy week, of course, I mean business.
Good evening.
Donald Trump says he will have the last word when it comes to TikTok after the US Supreme Court allowed the potential ban to go forward. The Court
says TikTok collects vast amounts of personal data, which could be used by the Chinese government and upheld the law requiring TikTok to find a non-
Chinese owner by Sunday, or else. The White House, the current White House says enforcing the law will fall to the Trump administration.
Now, President-elect Trump has developed a soft spot for TikTok, having one-time said he thought it should be banned, sold, or done away with. He
now says it helped him win more younger viewers and he told CNN after the ruling that TikTok's fate is ultimately up to him without clarifying what
he will do.
Kayla Tausche is at the White House.
This is fascinating, isn't it? Because essentially what Joe Biden realistically has said is, oi, it is all yours. The ban comes in on Sunday.
We ain't enforcing it. What are you going to do?
KAYLA TAUSCHE, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, it is certainly a walk back from the Biden administration, which supported the legislation
and pushed for it. The legislation that would ban TikTok unless it was sold to another company altogether.
But now the Biden administration, as you mentioned, Richard, is saying that they're not actually going to enforce that when it comes up on Sunday.
Now, a White House official tells me that this is just a sheer practical matter, that because of the timing with the holiday here in the US and
Inauguration the following day, that it is simply not possible for them to put in motion the type of regulation that would be needed to enforce it
before the keys of government are handed over to incoming President Donald Trump, who, of course, has left for your imagination what he plans to do
with TikTok.
Back in September, he said that he will save TikTok and suggested that he would come to the app's rescue because of the role that the app played on
the campaign trail for generating his support, but he has been mum and really sat this one out so far.
QUEST: But of course, it is a double-edged sword, isn't it? Because when you read what the Supremes said about TikTok, this vast collecting of data,
if he doesn't act, he will be left open to the accusation that he has left America and Americans vulnerable to Chinese data collection.
TAUSCHE: Well, certainly that is a message that his administration doesn't want to send. The question is whether they feel that by allowing TikTok to
continue operating it would actually send that message.
Now, Trump and President Xi of China did speak earlier today, and TikTok was one of the things that came up in that call. But, Richard, there is
also the question of the private companies that allow TikTok to operate here in the US.
You have Oracle, a major technology company that operates the company's servers in Virginia. If there is this legal gray area about whether the app
would be able to continue to operate, whether Oracle and other vendors that work with TikTok would be seen as flouting the law, if they don't comply,
perhaps they are going to just shut them down altogether.
I have reached out to Oracle and they haven't responded to my request for information about what exactly they plan to do, but certainly there are so
many variables that need to be solved here.
QUEST: Now, I can't put my hands on it just at the second. I am looking now, but the quote -- the various quotes from TikTok, the CEO basically
thanking President-elect Trump for saying he is going to save it, looking forward to President-elect Trump -- President Trump from helping Americans
express their First Amendment.
[16:15:14]
I mean, is the president-elect that susceptible to naked flattery?
TAUSCHE: Well, certainly that is the hope of the CEO who is trying to stroke his ego and suggest that Trump will come to the absolute rescue.
This is a CEO, Richard, who has been to Mar-a-Lago, met with President Trump, spoken with him on the phone multiple times.
He runs a company that has employed Kellyanne Conway, a top adviser to Trump, as a lobbyist here and is trying to seek to have as much proximity
to the incoming president as possible to try to influence the outcome.
Trump, for his part, we should note, has been meeting with would be buyers of TikTok at Mar-a-Lago to figure out exactly what a potential acquisition
would look like, but it is unclear whether he would support any of those, or whether any of those explorations are far enough along to actually be
consummated here.
QUEST: Right. Kayla, I am grateful to you. Thank you very much. And please, by the way, try and stay -- try and stay warm since we do know it is going
to be extremely cold in Washington, DC. I wish you well. Make sure you keep your thermals on.
All right, thank you.
Now, TikTok's efforts to influence lawmakers appear to be working even though the ban was passed with bipartisan support only a few months ago.
"The New York Times" is reporting that TikTok's representatives have swarmed Congress in recent days, as Kayla was sort of suggesting.
It also reports that TikTok is sponsoring an annual Inaugural Party honoring conservative influencers. Prominent figures on both sides are now
backing off the idea. The Democratic Senate Leader, Chuck Schumer, who was, of course, the leader of the Senate, says more time is needed to find an
American buyer.
Whereby Donald Trump's incoming National Security adviser, Mike Waltz, is saying we will keep TikTok from going dark. It had been a great platform
for him to get his America First message out, but at the same time, he wants to protect their data.
This is what the TikTok chief executive Shou Chew said today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SHOU ZI CHEW, CEO, TIKTOK: I want to thank President Trump for his commitment to work with us, to find a solution that keeps TikTok available
in the United States.
We are grateful and pleased to have the support of a president who truly understands our platform, one who has used TikTok to express his own
thoughts and perspectives, connecting with the world and generating more than 60 billion views of his content in the process.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
QUEST: Our senior media analyst, Sara Fischer is in Washington. Surely, the president-elect cannot be so nakedly whatever with that bit of flattery
from the TikTok CEO.
When the Supreme Court justices in their -- we believe unanimous decision basically said this is a vast hoover of American data that is a security
risk.
SARA FISCHER, CNN SENIOR MEDIA ANALYST: Well, that's not exactly what they said, though, Richard.
The Supreme Court said that the TikTok argument that this was a First Amendment violation didn't hold. They didn't say or make a judgment
necessarily on whether or not it was them agreeing with Congress that it was a National Security threat. They just said that TikTok's argument
against the law was flawed in two parts.
One, because the law doesn't say that TikTok has to shut down. It says that TikTok has to sell or get shut down. And then two, it is a Chinese company,
so the First Amendment doesn't apply.
But you bring up a good point, like the fact that the president is saying, we are just not going to enforce this is a big deal. Now, it is not just
President Trump, Biden also said that in his last day of office, he is not going to enforce it, sort of leaving it to Donald Trump to make this
decision. But it is really an unprecedented situation that we haven't really seen before.
QUEST: Right. But the Supreme Court did also, they say -- they referred to President Trump's own comments about TikTok, which leaves this very vague -
- I mean, it is not a satisfactory position to be in when you have a law that is clearly now being, you know, said to be the law, but the people who
are supposed to enforce the law won't say whether they're going to do it.
FISCHER: It is a very difficult position for TikTok because on one hand, Richard, they said that they wanted to essentially shut down on Sunday,
thus proving a point of how big of an impact it would make if a 170 million Americans just didn't get access to their favorite app one day.
On the other hand, if you think there is a shot that President Trump might be able to delay this, which there are some protocols he could to do it,
you don't want to preemptively just shut yourself down.
So TikTok is in a very, very precarious position right now. I am curious to see what they are going to do. But I will tell you, this is not over yet.
QUEST: In the last hour, I was talking about this and the phrase, we think it was Lenin who said, you know, about the capitalist selling you the rope
from which you're going to hang them.
[16:10:10]
To some extent, there is an analogy here in that here you have a company that is alleged to be funneling vast troves of data to the Chinese
government, which could then use it back against Americans in the future, and yet, you've got American politicians falling over themselves to try and
protect it.
I mean, isn't this the selling of the rope that hangs you?
FISCHER: Yes. So this is the biggest problem with democracy and with free markets and capitalism is that they are very vulnerable to foreign
disruption, because we do believe so much in openness and in competitiveness.
If you think about it, the reason that TikTok was able to come in here and flourish is because before we eventually went back and challenged it, we
let them acquire a major app musically in 2017, and then we let them spend billions and billions of dollars on user acquisition ads to get people in
America hooked. That happened because were in a capitalistic system and those, you know, advertising dollars were spent with publicly traded
companies who need to meet bottom line measures.
You know, Meta doesn't care that their top spender was TikTok for many years now. You know, of course, it is like SHEIN and TEMU, because they are
a capitalistic company.
And so this is one of the big vulnerabilities of our system that we are starting to witness right now.
QUEST: Gosh, I am so glad we have you on the program tonight. Thank you. We will talk more about this in the days and weeks ahead, very kind of you to
come in. Thank you.
FISCHER: Thank you.
QUEST: Now, this impending ban is leaving many of the app's 170 million users now wondering what -- what are we going to do now? They are known as
the TikTok refugees. Some of them are signing up for another Chinese-based social media app, it is called RedNote, and for the first time,
experiencing Chinese style censorship.
In Taipei is CNN's Will Ripley.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi. Who else is here from TikTok?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hey y'all.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're from Texas. Thank you for welcoming us to the app.
REP. CATHY MCMORRIS RODGERS (R-WA): We do not trust TikTok will ever embrace American values.
WILL RIPLEY, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice over): With TikTok's future hanging by a thread, a huge surge of users are flooding a surprise
alternative.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is so much better than TikTok.
RIPLEY (voice over): RedNote, the English name for Xiaohongshu, meaning "Little Red Book," drawing comparisons to a collection of Mao Zedong's
quotes small enough to carry around.
RedNote is a Chinese communist government monitored social media platform, now topping Apple's US app store.
UNIDENTIFIED MALES: Welcome TikTok refugees. RedNote is not Instagram.
RIPLEY (voice over): Many say they came here out of spite.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I refuse to support Facebook, Meta, especially Elon Musk and X.
RIPLEY (voice over): And they're making unexpected cross-cultural connections.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey there, fellow TikTok refugee here and I just wanted to say I have no idea how to speak Chinese.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Today, I would like to teach you some Chinese.
RIPLEY (voice over): Some users searching for international romance or the perfect Chinese name.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let me help you to pick one that suits you.
RIPLEY (voice over): One post even recreates famous Chinese and Russian propaganda posts.
Just days ago, this may have seemed unthinkable.
HEATHER ROBERTS, TIKTOK REFUGEE: I was scared that TikTok was going to go away, so I wanted to find an alternative.
RIPELY (voice over): Heather Roberts from Texas says TikTok refugees like her are desperate to find a new platform, a new social media fix.
ROBERTS: I haven't been on RedNote for very long. I've only been on there for maybe three days and I found myself like, wow, this is very addicting.
I'd probably say it is a little bit more addicting than TikTok.
RIPLEY (voice over): An addicting algorithm, exactly what app developers want.
RIPLEY (on camera): Experts say there are risks when it comes to the rise of another Chinese app. Just like TikTok, RedNote collects huge amounts of
user data.
China's laws require companies to share that data with the government --
RIPLEY (voice over): But only if requested.
Heavy censorship is already affecting American users, some getting their first taste of China's tightly controlled internet. Users say posts on
topics deemed sensitive by Chinese authorities are being deleted, including LGBTQ+ issues and even a popular Japanese anime.
Other posts face backlash flooded with negative or offensive comments. Some new users report racist questions, including whether it is okay to use the
N-word?
RIPLEY (on camera) Let's say that TikTok goes away and a lot of Americans flood into these Chinese apps. Is that a win for Beijing?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think it really depends on Beijing's view on how much they need to be in control of the narrative.
RIPLEY (voice over): As the US Supreme Court and incoming Trump administration debate TikTok's fate, the rise of RedNote raises new
questions and concerns about Americans embracing yet another platform under Chinese government control.
[16:15:08 ]
RIPLEY (on camera): Right now, RedNote is recruiting people with excellent English language skills, saying that they'll be responsible for backend
data processing and analysis.
Now, since Tuesday, we've made several attempts by e-mail and by phone to try to contact RedNote. So far, we've not received a response. We want to
know how they plan to handle this. US user data, specifically.
China's National Security laws are pretty clear, though. When you download any Chinese app, your data could be handed over to the authorities if
requested.
Now, China's Ministry of Foreign Affairs was asked about this on Wednesday, and they say that they've always supported and encouraged strengthening
people to people and cross-cultural exchanges. But experts are wondering how long they're going to allow this type of interaction on this social
media platform to continue.
Will Ripley, CNN, Taipei.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
QUEST: As you and I continue, a critical moment in the Israeli-Hamas war, the latest on the ceasefire, as we believe Israeli lawmakers are voting on
it at the moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
QUEST: In the last few hours, Israel's full Cabinet has been discussing the Gaza ceasefire and hostage deal. It has already been approved by the
Israeli Security Cabinet, a smaller group have adopted. The first group of hostages could be released as soon as Sunday, and Israel says it will
release 95 Palestinian prisoners, including 10 teenagers, once the ceasefire takes effect.
Hamas has accused Israel of ramping up attacks before the deal goes through. The Civil Defense of Gaza says at least 117 people have been
killed in Israeli attacks. That count includes 30 children.
Jeremy Diamond has the very latest from Tel Aviv.
The time is getting closer. I mean, we assume the Cabinet is going to pass this, so then it becomes a matter of process of putting it into effect.
JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, that's exactly right, Richard.
We know that the Israeli prime minister does have the numbers within his government Cabinet in order to get this ceasefire deal stamped and approved
by the Israeli government. But this Cabinet meeting has been going on for hours and hours at this point, because each minister gets to have their say
about this deal, why they are supporting it, why they are opposing it throughout the course of this meeting.
But we do expect that the Cabinet will likely approve this deal at some point tonight. What will then follow is a process of about 24 hours, during
which the Israeli Supreme Court will allow for petitions against the release of those Palestinian prisoners set to be exchanged for those 33
Israeli hostages.
[16:20:17]
But if everything goes well, as it does appear it will at this point, by sometime as early as Sunday afternoon, we will likely be seeing the first
of those three Israeli hostages. These will be three female civilians who have been held hostage for over 15 months by Hamas, being released and
setting foot on Israeli soil.
What will then follow is a six-week ceasefire in the Gaza Strip, during which time we will see 33 Israeli hostages released, many hundreds of
Palestinian prisoners in exchange for them, the entry of much needed humanitarian aid into the Gaza Strip, totaling as much as 600 trucks of aid
per day to address the desperate humanitarian situation there.
But there are major question marks, Richard, around whether or not this six-week ceasefire can indeed be extended and whether or not this will
actually lead to a permanent end of the war in Gaza.
And at this hour, Richard, that seems quite uncertain, and, dare I say, even perhaps unlikely, because the Israeli prime minister has come under
tremendous pressure from right wing members of his government to resume the war as soon as that six-week ceasefire is over.
That would be short circuiting a process that is supposed to begin on the 16th day of the ceasefire, whereby Israel and Hamas will go back to the
negotiating table to negotiate an end to the war. If the Israeli prime minister short circuits that, that would certainly be going against what
the intention is of the United States, Egypt and Qatar, the mediators of this deal, and certainly that will be a question mark hanging over the
entirety of these six weeks. How lasting will the ceasefire actually be -- Richard.
QUEST: Jeremy Diamond, thank you.
Now to more significance of the deal.
Firas Maksad is the senior director for Strategic Outreach and senior fellow at the Middle East Institute.
I guess we know what is going to happen. The ceasefire is going to come into effect, and there will be, thank God, release of hostages and
prisoners will be exchanged.
But really, that is not what this -- obviously, for those people involved, that is the core significance. But really in a geopolitical and in a wider
sense, it is what happens after that, isn't it? And we've got no idea.
FIRAS MAKSAD, SENIOR DIRECTOR FOR STRATEGIC OUTREACH AND SENIOR FELLOW, MIDDLE EAST INSTITUTE: Absolutely, Richard.
I mean, the question is, are we witnessing the end of the war or are we just witnessing a momentary reprieve? Welcome as it might be, it certainly
is for the families and the victims of this war.
It is an open question. And yes, it is very unlikely, given the complex political reality of Israel right now. The coalition government, the threat
amongst many of the hard right in that Cabinet to withdraw come March when the second phase of this ceasefire deal is supposed to kick in, when an end
to the war is actually on the table.
It is going to require a lot of pressure from the Trump administration on Netanyahu to see this through to the second phase.
And one has to say that there is such a thing as the Trump effect, and that Trump did deliver. It is no coincidence that this ceasefire is coming into
effect, just as President Trump is being inaugurated, because Trump has leverage in Israel that Biden didn't.
I am often told that is the most --
QUEST: All right, but what -- okay, we keep -- I keep hearing that. Sorry to interrupt. Do forgive me, but I want to drill on that point. I keep
hearing Trump has influence, has power to do it.
But how will he exercise that power and influence? In other words, is it as bold and blatant as Bibi, stop it or Bibi, if you do that, I will do this.
MAKSAD: Yes, I think how they choose to wield that influence is going to come down to the Trump administration, but there is no question, given the
status of the US-Israeli relations, given how reliant Israel is on the US for its defense, that there is leverage. It is a choice of political will.
And I think here, we know that Donald Trump is laser focused on what he refers to as the deal of the century, trying to get at normalization
between Saudi Arabia and other Arab States and Israel. That is what eluded him in the first Trump term.
He got the Abraham Accords with the UAE, Bahrain and Morocco. He wants to do it bigger and better. He needs quiet. He needs a ceasefire in Gaza. He
also needs a lasting ceasefire in Lebanon. So he is going to be pressuring Netanyahu in that direction.
QUEST: The ability to do that will come at what price? So because we know - - the interesting thing about that, what you've just said is we know that MBS in Saudi is, to a certain extent, a willing participant here. The fact
that Saudi has not taken a stronger anti-Israeli line and indeed has basically said, if all things being equal, we will still do a deal with
Israel.
[16:25:10 ]
Now, it is a question of can the deal maker put it together?
MAKSAD: Richard, I think that the Saudi Crown Prince is still willing to normalize with Israel. But I do think that the price has went up.
It is very clear that they need a Palestinian state at a minimum, some of us think that a pathway, a credible nonreversible time bound pathway
towards a Palestinian state, just given how much Arab public opinion has hardened as a result of this devastating 15-month war now in Gaza.
There is also another complicating factor, which is that Trump will need votes from Democrats in the Senate to see a Defense Treaty with Saudi
Arabia through as part of that normalization package. And again, it is going to be a heavy lift for the Trump administration to achieve that. He
is determined to do it. It is an open question whether he can deliver.
QUEST: Good to see you, sir. We will talk more. I am grateful. Thank you.
In Washington on Monday, there is going to be freezing temperatures. In fact, more than that.
Donald Trump's inauguration is now going to be inside. It will be the first indoor swearing in since Ronald Reagan in 1985. More in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
QUEST: Hello, I'm Richard Quest and there is more QUEST MEANS BUSINESS in just a moment. First, the headlines at this hour.
The US Supreme Court upheld the potential ban on TikTok with the justices saying yes, it captures data that could be used to aid the Chinese
government. The decisions clears the way for the ban to take effect.
One option for TikTok's survival is for the app's US assets to be sold to a non-Chinese buyer, something the app said it won't do.
Donald Trump has held what is called a very good phone call with China's President Xi Jinping. The pair spoke earlier on Friday before the Supreme
Court ruling. Mr. Trump says the app was discussed as well as issues like trade and the fentanyl crisis.
An explosion onboard the uncrewed SpaceX rocket created a fiery display over the Caribbean. Social media posts show the apparent debris falling to
Earth. An aircraft tracking website said flights in the area were halted or diverted, SpaceX says it will learn from the test flight malfunction.
[16:30:29]
Monday's inauguration of President-elect Donald Trump will be moved indoors, because of the dangerously cold temperatures in Washington. The
high is expected to be roughly negative four degrees Celsius, with a low of negative 12.
The neck, the swearing in will now take place in the Capitol Rotunda. The last time this happened was for President Ronald Reagan in 1985. That's
back when artists like Wham and Madonna were topping the charts.
Jeff Zeleny is in Washington, D.C.
You know, I was saying, I was at university and was meant to go to that inauguration back in 1985. But then when they moved it from outside to the
Rotunda, we don't enough seats, so, I stayed at home instead. But I do remember it very well, and it was very cold.
It's not going to be as cold this time, but still very cold, Jeff.
JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Exactly. And the wind chill, or the feels like temperature, according to our meteorologist,
Derek Van Dam, he said it is about the same as 85. Single digits, about seven degrees.
Look, the reality here is that Donald Trump was going to get a big crowd into Washington. The question is, would it be enough to satisfy his need to
see that big crowd up and down the mall?
My guess is the crowd would have been a bit sparse, you know, certainly, hundreds of thousands of people here, but perhaps, not the size of the
crowd that he want.
Also, windy and things.
(CROSSTALK)
QUEST: Right.
ZELENY: And it is going to be dangerously cold. So, all of those things coming together, why not do it inside? It seems like a perfectly normal
thing to do.
However, that creates all kinds of issues for Trump supporters already on their way, and in Washington, only about 200 people or so can fit in the
Rotunda.
QUEST: Yes.
ZELENY: So, Richard, my question is, which ones of the CEOs?
QUEST: Yes.
ZELENY: Will Elon Musk find his way in there? Will Mark Zuckerberg? We shall see.
QUEST: Please, please. You are taking my questions from me.
ZELENY: Oh, sorry. I'm sorry.
QUEST: I was about to about that one to you exactly. So, you've got to have Supreme Court justices, you've got to have Cabinet members, you've got to
have some ambassadors, members of Congress.
But my guess is that they'll be -- they'll be turfed, so that the tech oligarchs, as President Biden would now call them. They will be there.
ZELENY: We shall see. I mean, you also have members of Congress there, but there is a scramble underway right now. I could see one proposal, you know,
every member of the House go sit and watch it in the House chamber. Well, there's a room for 400 right there.
So, we will see who actually makes it in. But perhaps, that's not the most important audience, the parties in the balls, and the other things that are
happening are just as important. So, there are plenty opportunities.
But Richard, one of the most important things is going to happen right after that in the Capitol, only a few steps away. I am told that the
president-elect, who will be president by then, is going to go sign the first raft of executive orders on immigration, and other things. So, this
is going to happen moments after he becomes president.
QUEST: Wow.
ZELENY: So, it's different than eight years ago. He knows what he's doing this time.
QUEST: Right.
ZELENY: He knows his way around the office. It will feel different being inside, no doubt.
QUEST: Not even waiting until he gets back to the White House to sign those E.O.s.
ZELENY: Some of them, he will wait, but I'm told he will start before, even before the ceremonial luncheon.
But one person who will not be crowding in the rotunda, Michelle Obama. She is staying in Hawaii, we are told. So, there's room for one more person.
Richard.
QUEST: Thank you, sir. I'm grateful. We look forward to your cover. Thank you.
ZELENY: My pleasure.
QUEST: Now, some federal workers say the staff are literally changing their job descriptions before the Trump administration. They want to run -- They
want to avoid, you know, running a foul of the so-called department of government efficiency, DOGE.
The language that is so -- in -- we all know, Elon Musk is trying to get rid of the wokeism in many of the jobs. If your title has policy in it,
you're changing your title. Equity, you're changing your title. Diversification, you're changing your title.
These are all considered no woe words for it. They could come up with automated searches. They could also apply to roles in budget, from finance,
similar vocabulary, nothing to do with DEI.
[16:35:05]
But the idea is, don't raise yourself above the parapet.
Hadas Gold is in New York.
The fear is, if you have those words in your title and you know the way the wind is blowing, you could be out.
HADAS GOLD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, I spoke to several sources across several different agencies. This is not any sort of coordinated effort.
These are individual managers and supervisors taking it in upon themselves to try and protect these employees, both to protect their livelihoods and
their jobs, but also to protect what they see as critical functions to these government agencies. So, as you noted, policy is one of those words.
I spoke to one source who said that there are managers who are changing job descriptions. So, instead of saying, provide policy guidance, it just says,
provide guidance. Now, that's in direct reaction to what's known as Schedule F.
Schedule F is an executive order that Trump instituted in his first term, which essentially put a new sort of category for federal employees who work
on policy, took away some of their protections, and other civil servants get, making it easier to fire them.
And then, of course, there is DEI diversity, equity, inclusion. That's become sort of a right-wing bogeyman. Elon Musk has said it's the same
thing as racism. I've heard from employees, saying that they're going through performance reviews and choosing not to use those words.
QUEST: So --
And the big threat exactly on this is the security that previously civil servants had, and how the DOGE, if you will, I mean, as to whether or not
they try and cut a third or whatever it is they try and cut. How are they going to get around that aspect?
GOLD: There is a fear, even amongst those who support the idea of making the government more efficient, and, you know, slimming it down, is that
this will be used -- they will go through cuts with a hatchet and not a scalpel.
That they are going to use things like A.I. to look for buzz words, and they'll just, you know, say anything that has these buzz words, we're
getting rid of them. And that's why we have, as you noted, some of these finance positions are worried, I've got equity and diversification in my
job description or my job title. I don't do anything related to DEI, but they're worried that they'll get kind of caught up in this drag net.
And that's why there's definitely federal employees who are being a little bit more strategic about how they communicate what they do or what they've
done.
QUEST: I was reading over the weekend -- last weekend about the number of people that DOGE is bringing in from the tech industry. How they are
importing people who have been very successful in business startups, IPOs, but may know nothing about policy or indeed, the very finely tuned machine
of government.
GOLD: Yes, it definitely sounds -- feels like sort of a startup feel. They have posted publicly online anybody who wants to come work for DOGE to
apply. And this really jives with sort of Elon Musk's history. He is one who looks at normal processes and historical president and says, no,
thanks. I'm not going to do it. I'm going to do my own way that sort of move fast and break things.
And they actually, I think, see that as a good thing, as a benefit to them. They would rather come in and, you know, break things, even if it means, if
it's broken for a while, in order to build it back up. That's how they see things.
We'll see how this actually works out in practice, when they come up against the Washington machine.
QUEST: And also, when they come up against, you know, the first time a benefit isn't paid, or Medicare isn't done, or some pensioner doesn't get
that, and that gets -- Fascinating.
We've all got our work in our first covering these in the months and years ahead. Grateful for you, Hadas, thank you.
Donald Trump is hailing what he calls a very good phone call with President Xi of China. They spoke on Friday before the Supreme Court ruling on
TikTok.
Mr. Trump says the app was discussed as well as issues like trade and fentanyl crisis. It's believed to be the first time they have spoken since
Mr. Trump left office last time. China's foreign ministry says it's hoping for a good start to U.S.-China relations.
Donald Trump hasn't always been amicable when it comes to China. He is threatening to raise tariffs on goods by a further 10 percent, unless
Beijing stops the flow of illegal drugs.
And the new president may not be too happy with the latest economic data, where the Chinese economy has grown more than expected with much of the
momentum yet exports in Beijing, we have Marc Stewart.
MARC STEWART, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: The economic growth China saw last quarter is certainly strong, but on the ground here in Beijing,
there are challenges for the future.
Let's start with the incoming Trump administration and the potential of new tariffs on Beijing. President-elect Trump's choice for Treasury Secretary
Scott Bessent has expressed concern China will keep cutting prices to maintain market share.
On another front, China's population also declined by more than a million people. It's the third year in a row we've seen a dip, but there's some
encouraging news for the world's second largest economy, the. birth rate increased for the first time since 2016.
[16:40:03]
When it comes to growth new energy, or electric vehicles, saw production jump by nearly 40 percent according to government data. Electronics and
industrial robots also saw strong output, but investment in property saw a decline. All of this comes as the government has put in a series of
measures to stimulate growth.
We'll likely get more insight on China's economic fate during the annual meeting of its rubber stamp legislature in March.
Marc Stewart, CNN, Beijing.
QUEST: Thank you, Marc Stewart.
Now, when you and I next speak on Monday, first of all, I'll be in Davos, where, of course, it's the world's economic forum. There will be a new
president in the White House, because you and I will be talking on Monday, when it's President Trump will have taken the office, and we will have four
years together to look and see the economic experiment that is about to get underway.
So, this is where we start. But our rose 334 points today, capping off a strong week, more than 1300 since Monday, around three percent. The S&P was
up as well. The NASDAQ saw the best of the day overall.
And that is QUEST MEANS BUSINESS for today. We will watch, wait, and learn in the days and weeks ahead.
I'm Richard Quest in London. Whatever you're up to over the weekend, I hope it is profitable. "WORLD OF WONDER" is next.
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