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Quest Means Business
Interview with Croatian Prime Minister Andrej Plenkovic; Interview with SAP CEO Christian Klein. Trump Addresses World Leaders on Final Day of Davos; Kukies: Germany Should Take Constructive Approach to Trump; Benioff: Everyone is Focused on US Political Changes. Aired 4:00-5p ET
Aired January 23, 2025 - 16:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[16:00:12]
RICHARD QUEST, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST, "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS": Closing bell ringing on wall street. Strong day on the Dow. It is up and it took a good
boost after Donald Trump spoke at Davos. The market is up strongly. Best gains on the NASDAQ, hit the gavel and trading is over.
Those are the markets and these are the stories we are following today: Donald Trump and his laundry list of demands. He wants lower oil prices and
lower interest rates.
Germany's finance minister on this program tonight says Germany needs deep structural reform.
And Marc Benioff of Salesforce will introduce us to humans and AI agents. We are live at the World Economic Forum in Davos on Thursday. It is January
the 23rd. I am Richard Quest with Clint, who got a good dusting of snow today, Clint and myself and together we mean business.
Good evening.
It is a climactic moment to round off our week here in Davos. The President Donald Trump has laid out in unvarnished terms how his administration plans
to upend the global world order, politics, and economics.
He was speaking to a room filled with the worlds political and business leaders, and he made a series of demands. He insists on OPEC lowering oil
prices. He is calling on NATO allies to increase defense spending to five percent of GDP, urging the Fed to lower interest rates, and insisted that
companies around the world make their products in the US or face the consequences.
On our program tonight, a very busy hour, the German finance minister, the president of the European Parliament, the prime minister of Croatia, the
chief executives of two software giants, Salesforce's Marc Benioff and Christian Klein from SAP. You don't get that group anywhere else, I promise
you that and all for the price of a cup of tea.
Just now, President Trump spoke to reporters from the Oval Office, and he echoed the message that he told Davos about lowering interest rates.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The oil comes down, it will bring down prices, then you won't have inflation, and then the
interest rates will come down.
REPORTER: You said that you would demand that the interest rates come down.
TRUMP: Well I would put in a strong statement.
REPORTER: Do you expect the Fed -- do you expect the Fed to listen to you?
TRUMP: Yes.
REPORTER: Are you going to talk to Powell about this in bringing the rates down?
TRUMP: At the right time, I would.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
QUEST: Phil Mattingly is in Washington. Rana is with me as well. Phil, I will come to you for the politics in just one second for our discussion.
Rana, this is a full throttle: Do it my way or face the consequences. What happens?
RANA FOROOHAR, CNN GLOBAL ECONOMIC ANALYST: A hundred percent, you know, there was both a lot of pro-US bluster and a lot of serious policy
discussion in in Trump's comments.
I mean, he is being very clear. He is saying, look, make it in the USA and we are going to make it very cheap and tax optimized for you to do that.
And if you don't, you're going to get slapped with a tariff. It is very much a zero sum world, you know, you hear him starting with allies, Canada.
You know, we don't need your lumber. We don't need your oil. We can make our own cars.
You didn't hear a lot about China, which was interesting and I think that that's a weak point for trump. But you heard a lot about Europe and how
Europe is keeping American companies down, and it is clear that Big Tech is the national champion for Trump in his fight to make America great again.
QUEST: Now, Phil, it is difficult to sift the politics from the rhetoric, from the reality. But what we've seen in the last few days is this
energized president that means what he says and those who think its bark and bite being worse might be in for a very nasty shock when the bite bits,
if you like.
PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CHIEF US DOMESTIC CORRESPONDENT: Yes, you can't underscore that point enough, Richard, I think at this point and I think I
felt like this was an obvious thing throughout the course of the campaign, many conversations with people saying, look, I don't think we can do to
take him seriously, not literally thing anymore.
What he is talking about right now, not only does he want to do, but he actually has the personnel and the policy planning operation to make that
happen.
[16:05:04]
And if we have seen nothing else over the course of these first 72 hours, to the extent you can even remember three days ago, at this point, Richard,
it is that he is doing exactly that.
Now, yes, this has been focused on immigration issues in particular, but also on energy as well, on cultural issues in the United States. But I
think when it comes to tariffs, well, some investors and some around the world breathe a little bit of a sigh of relief on the morning of January
20th, when he didn't unload 25 percent tariffs directed at Mexico and Canada, 10 percent tariffs directed at China.
It is very clear that he has that tool. He is very willing to use it, and part of this is a very significant negotiating tactic where he doesn't feel
like he is bluffing. I don't think his team feels like he is bluffing either.
Even those, Richard, and you know this quite well, there are people inside his economic team that want no part of universal tariffs or going after the
top three or four trading partners, but they know, he is willing to do it.
QUEST: So Rana, in this scenario, I mean, to use that horrible phrase, risk on, risk off. Everybody is really on notice. We have to be fair to
President Trump here. He said, this is what he is going to do, he is doing it. They may not like it, but this is the way it is going to be. People
have to decide how they're going to react.
FOROOHAR: Yes, absolutely. And in terms of risk on or risk off. Well, the markets are clearly with the US right now. I think that that would be the
case no matter what. I mean, Europe has got big problems. It is very fractured. There is no political center really.
You know, you're already seeing European leaders struggling and arguing amongst themselves, trying to come up with some kind of response. And they
still, years after the emergence of Trump on the global scene, they still really have no understanding of how to deal with this man and his
transactional nature.
QUEST: Right, now, Rana, I need you to stay with me because I want you to come back after we've heard from the European Parliament president, if
you're able to, I'd like you to stay back.
Last question to you, Phil Mattingly, for the moment. Just how much of a shock is Washington in?
MATTINGLY: They shouldn't be. Like, this I am going to die on this hill, Richard, in the sense of people should have been taking this very, very
seriously. If you didn't understand that his team has a level of bureaucratic confidence, a level of seriousness, and also, I think a level
of intensity about their planning leading into this moment, then you were kind of whistling at the wind a little bit here.
I think there are real questions right now, and there should be when it comes to tariffs, and I think the number of people who caught the two words
that he said about differing levels of tariffs when he was threatening them, and were focused on that, does that mean there will be a baseline
tariff? Does that mean they'll be structured around different products that would be exported? That's fascinating to me, and I do believe that that's
kind of very much an open question right now.
But the reality is, he is a much more comfortable and a much more emboldened leader than he ever was the first term.
QUEST: Phil, grateful for you. Rana, we haven't finished, pardon the phrase, with the asset. So we will be back with you in just a moment or
three to talk more about it.
The US president, Mr. Trump, he had harsh words for Europe during the address criticizing the bloc's fines on American tech like Apple and
Google, and saying he considered them a form of taxation, and then he went after the EU's trade practices.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: The EU treats us very, very unfairly, very badly. They have a large tax that we know about and a VAT tax, and it is a very substantial one.
They don't take our -- essentially don't take our farm products and they don't take our cars, yet they send cars to us by the millions.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
QUEST: Now, Germany's Finance Minister Jorg Kukies, he says he wants to take the practical approach to all of that. Tariff threats are one issue
the minister is facing. The German economy is expected to decline slightly for last year, for a second year in a row, and the minister says the
country needs to tap into innovative potential.
The Draghi Report, take a drink, its companies with the Draghi Report and the companies of Germany that they bring to the table.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JORG KUKIES, GERMAN FINANCE MINISTER: I think it would be counterproductive to prepare for retaliation if we don't even know if and what will be done
in terms of tariffs. There is a large opportunity to find agreements on intensifying trade, and therefore we want to approach this very
constructively.
QUEST: What about the economy in itself and the strengths and weaknesses of the German economy.
[16:10:00]
At the moment, the popular perception and you'll probably tell me I'm wrong, but that's fine, is that the German economy is weak at the moment,
that it is -- not exactly in crisis, but it is not growing, it is not producing the jobs necessary at the moment.
It is not -- you know, you've got major manufacturers like Volkswagen who are closing factories or laying off workers for the first time in decades.
KUKIES: No, I mean, you may be surprised, I am not going to sugarcoat this. Our growth potential has declined from 1.5 percent to 0.5 percent for the
foreseeable future.
So this is not a cyclical, temporary issue that will go away automatically. We need deep structural changes to enhance our growth potential.
QUEST: So if your long term potential growth is lower and you've got the problem of potentially tariffs, this really all comes back to a deeply
concerning time for the German economy.
KUKIES: But I do think there is a big consensus in Germany that we need to fix these problems, so it is also -- there is also the glass half full
version that once we fix these things, we have a huge innovative potential in our companies. We have a very qualified workforce, we have technology.
So if we fix our problems and we address our structural deficiencies in the labor market, qualified work, in the lack of tax incentives for
investments, in energy prices, in too much bureaucracy, then we also have a big opportunity to find our way.
Germany traditionally is one of the growth engines of Europe, and that's what we have to get back to.
QUEST: So the last German chancellor who managed to do this was Gerhard Schroeder many years ago. Unfortunately, I remember covering it, but that's
another story. He managed to do it because he managed to get the people to understand that there was this requirement to restructure.
You've got an election coming up. This is going to be one of the key issues.
KUKIES: Well, of course, I mean, the fundamental issues now are different than they were then. When Gerhard Schroeder made his reforms, we had five
million unemployment. Now, when we ask our companies, they say the biggest problem that they have, or one of the biggest problems, is to find skilled
laborers. So we have a different problem set now than we had.
But you're absolutely right. We need an impulse for a lot of economic reforms. What is different also here today is that we have gone through
decades of underinvestment in public infrastructure. Our education scores globally are weak. Our infrastructure in streets, in bridges, in railways
are weak. So the problem set is different.
QUEST: Getting from the requirement to the execution is not going to be easy. Can you do it?
KUKIES: Yes, but I mean I think the issue that I mentioned that our growth potential has shrunk so massively and is far below one percent shows that
we not only can do it, but we have to do it. And I do think the awareness in the broad public and in the political parties is there. Of course, the
election campaign is the battle for the best ideas for that.
But your question, can we do it? The answer is absolutely yes.
QUEST: The election and the people will speak. How concerned are you about the right, the far right, particularly when Elon Musk is chiming in and
seemingly bolstering in a way that is quite unforeseen and not been seen before?
KUKIES: Well, of course, we are very concerned that the extreme right party is at the numbers that they are at, but there are very solid and sound
democratic alternatives to that, so we just have to bring those forward and find a government constellation that ends up agreeing and executing.
QUEST: Choose your color, sir.
KUKIES: I'll choose red.
QUEST: The finance minister choosing red. You do realize that the markets are now interpreting this? If you would have gone for black, but you do
red, careful about that.
KUKIES: Yes, that's okay. It may be German bond yields going down, so that will be the reason.
QUEST: Oh as opposed to -- well, let's just keep going. The next four years in one word.
Growth potential.
KUKIES: It's a long word.
QUEST: Thank you, sir.
KUKIES: Is that one word?
QUEST: Yes, well, we will happily take that as one word. Does this mean you are prepared to do the heresy in Germany of deficits? Greater deficits?
KUKIES: We are discussing about targeted reforms to our debt break. Because of the topic that I mentioned of very long under-investment in public
infrastructure, I am in favor of targeted reforms, but the reforms have to be enhancing to our growth potential.
So we need infrastructure, schools, education, all of the things --
QUEST: Deficits --
KUKIES: -- that will bring forward growth and that will enable us to keep our deficits very well under control.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
QUEST: That was the German finance minister.
[16:15:10]
Well, what we all heard today from the US president was exactly what the Europeans are dreading. The president of the Parliament says the EU should
not be scared of the Trump administration.
Roberta Metsola says Europe is in a better position now compared to the last time in '16 in the first office. She also says there is work to do
when it comes to boosting the EU economy and the time to make reforms is now.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ROBERTA METSOLA, EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT PRESIDENT: I'm not a pessimist, and I think if there was a chance for Europe to open its eyes wide open, address
challenges that it hasn't for many years, send a message to its people that it wants their life to be a little bit fairer, a little bit easier, a
little bit more prosperous, then now is the time. I don't think we have any choice.
QUEST: No, but the problem is leaders in Europe, and from those I've heard so far, you're all still in a Pollyanna way, hoping for the best, hoping
that it is not going to get nasty, hoping that somehow the president is not going to do what he says he is going to do.
METSOLA: Well, as you said, it is transactional. So I think it is up to us to say, what can we bring to the table? If somebody talks, we are the
number one allies of each other, the United States and Europe, whether we like it or not, I particularly think it is something we should invest in
economically.
We are each other's partner. Politically, we are aligned, whether it is on the Middle East, whether it is on Ukraine, whether it is on Iran. I think
these are things that we can go with, but otherwise we just look scared and we shouldn't be.
QUEST: No, but what I am hearing from European leaders is the first part of that equation, which is we must work together. We are allies or what you
said, but what I am not yet hearing from you all is the second bit.
And if we can't, we will be strong in retaliation or whatever we need to do. Where is the equivalent of whatever it takes?
METSOLA: I think its preparedness. I mean, being prepared and we are in a better situation in 2025 today than we were in 2016. I think we have to be
able to say since then, the European Union has done things that could have done better. we are still overregulating. We are still making it too
difficult for private sector to operate.
However, we've stepped up with regards to the war. We've taken leadership with regards to the Middle East, and we've brought different countries and
allies to us. Whether it is perfect or not, I am not ready to throw in the towel yet.
QUEST: No, but how? You're starting to sing from the hymn sheet that we need to do deregulation. We need to do more of this, which is, of course,
what the president is putting forward. But one gets the feeling you're being dragged kicking and screaming to that position, you're not doing,
because the liberal elite of Europe is still regarding what is about to happen as being a travesty.
METSOLA: Okay, I get that, and I think we need to say two things. First of all, in November, American people voted for what they thought America
should look like. In Europe, we forget the same trend has been coming, and in June, so I preside over a Parliament that essentially looks very similar
with that trend of people saying enough is enough. You're stifling us. We need to feel more safe. We need to invest more in security. We need to do
more to help our businesses. We need to protect our people.
QUEST: That's exactly the situation. Do you think the bureaucracy, the Brussels liberal elite has got that message?
METSOLA: I'm going to do my very best to make sure that it has. You know, we are legislators. We're going to have to be the ones to say, you know
what? This piece of legislation was not good. You know what? This piece of legislation that is coming is not good.
Were we fast enough in the past to say this? No, but we have governments who are telling us, pause, wait, give us a breather. We need to operate. We
need to be more agile, be more flexible. Is it going to be easy? Of course not.
But I am going to do my best to do that.
QUEST: Choose your color.
METSOLA: Blue.
QUEST: Color blue is your --
METSOLA: Am I so predictable?
QUEST: No, no. Just as you can see it, a lot of blue. Poor old -- come over here. What word, next four years, one word.
METSOLA: I am going to put two. Someone did -- come on. Growth potential is two. So I am going to say --
QUEST: They tried to fool me on that one.
METSOLA: Yes, Realistic optimism.
QUEST: Oh.
METSOLA: Is that too fancy?
QUEST: No, that is a nice nuance.
METSOLA: Nuance? I am tired of pessimism. I can't be, not in this world.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
QUEST: That's the president of the European Parliament. Rana is with me.
As I listened and was discussing all these things, I thought of your article in the FT recently in which you said, you know, the third
directorate of the second committee of the fourth commission, they will have a deep discussion, and then they will report to the General Council.
[16:20:05]
I mean, do they, in your view, do the Europeans, are they equipped to deal with the bulldozer coming towards them?
FOROOHAR: In a word, no. You know, in that same article that you mentioned very kindly, I said that Europe is sort of like a well-dressed flaneur, you
know, walking through the alleys and the streets, unaware that he is about to get jumped by two thugs. One of them is Donald Trump and the other is Xi
Jinping's China.
And Europe has it coming both ways. I mean, we just heard from Trump, he wants things to move faster in Europe. He wants them to stop penalizing
American tech companies. He was actually calling Europe's antitrust and regulatory efforts a sort of a tariff on America's Big Tech giants. And of
course, they're all sitting in the front row at the Inauguration. So we know who is going to be defending them.
And, you know, we see Musk having the role that he does in the new administration. And then on the other side, and I think, you know, the
conversation with the German minister really made me think, Europe is not ready for what is coming down the pike from China, because China is about
to start dumping a lot of clean energy tech, a lot of electric vehicles, a lot of excess capacity into Europe.
And I don't think the Germans and the Europeans in general have a plan for that yet.
QUEST: Rana, I am grateful for you standing by and waiting to talk to us on that. We will talk more about it. Thank you.
It's QUEST MEANS BUSINESS tonight from Davos. The chief executive of Salesforce is now talking about digital labor. Marc Benioff on the program.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARC BENIOFF, CEO, SALESFORCE: I think that you're just seeing the very beginning of what will be one of the biggest investment levels in the
history of the world.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
QUEST: Salesforce's chief executive, Marc Benioff says he views AI as a way to create what he is calling digital labor. A $500 billion AI investment
announced this week is just a taste of what is to come. It is the venture involving Softbank, Oracle and OpenAI unveiled at the White House.
We started talking with his take, Marc Benioff's take on the new administration.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BENIOFF: I think everyone of course, is very focused on, you know, change in the US administration. This is the number one thing on everybody's
minds. What are all the changes that are about to happen? And there's going to be a lot of changes. You can see that, it is going to be -- it is a
whole new administration. This is what's great about our democratic system.
[16:25:05]
QUEST: The beauty of the system and the changes is that we know they're coming, but were not really built for them at such a speed. I mean, that
really is the issue here. This is coming like a rocket.
BENIOFF: Yes, well, this is like the technology industry. I am used to it.
Yes, I mean, in my industry, you know, the only constant is change. Everything is changing all the time. And you have to have a beginner's mind
to the world and technology and I think right now, we have to have a beginner's mind when it comes to the political environment as well.
QUEST: So when you saw yesterday the announcement about the AI infrastructure, $500 billion, what do you make of that?
BENIOFF: I think it is the beginning of trillions. I think that you're just seeing the very beginning of what will be one of the biggest investment
levels in the history of the world, because this is an opportunity for us to completely transform how we do everything.
QUEST: You're relishing this --
BENIOFF: I am.
QUEST: And there are some like myself, who are thinking --
BENIOFF: I am.
QUEST: Slow down.
BENIOFF: Yes, that's why we chose our respective careers.
QUEST: Right. So how did you get into a pissing match with Microsoft over Copilot?
BENIOFF: Well, because, you know, we are the second largest software company in the world, and Microsoft is number one. And look, the reality is
Microsoft has just disappointed everybody in what they've done with this Copilot, which is to repackaged ChatGPT plugged into their apps and doesn't
really work. There is no adoption.
QUEST: But you don't back off from a battle over it. I mean, you're coming out and saying what you think.
BENIOFF: No, because I think customers have to understand the differentiation that they can use something like Salesforce. They can
transform, go and become an incredible AI first company. And look, that is what we do in our company every single day.
QUEST: What will be the next thing for you to do?
BENIOFF: The next thing for me is to make every company agent first. This idea that were going to create digital labor, that is it is about humans
and agents working together just like it is now.
QUEST: How do you not displace the humans? Or if you have displaced the humans, you don't fail them. We failed them in the industrial revolution.
We failed them in the internet revolution. We failed them in the fourth industrial revolution. We did not retrain.
BENIOFF: You are 100 percent right because we know that technology is marching forward. It is always getting lower cost and easier to use and
there are labor implications. And as we are talking about now, a new industry of digital labor and that is what is really happening.
You know, that humans with agents are working together here, not only at Davos, but in companies. Well, now what does that mean for the future? And
what it means is, is that we have to do the things that are going to do right by humans as well.
And you look at my own company, I've deployed now, we call an agentic layer on our customer support teams. So we get 36,000 customer support issues
every single week. If you ask me a month ago, 10,000 of those have to go to our 9,000 support agents.
But by putting in an agentic layer, now, only 5,000 are going to our support teams and that gives me now the ability to rebalance and move those
support agents into other roles inside the company. That's very exciting.
QUEST: As a CEO, in exactly that position, how aware are you and the priority you must give to the displacement of labor?
BENIOFF: Well, I think this idea that we have to be upskilling and reskilling, training, investing in education and that is why you'll see at
Salesforce, these are things that we are doing on an active basis and have done for decades because we believe technology is going forward. No one is
going to stop technology.
So how are we going to work together to make the world better? How do we improve the state of the world?
QUEST: Would you like more media properties? Youve got --
BENIOFF: I'd rather not. I think one is enough for anyone.
QUEST: You're still committed to it?
BENIOFF: Look, I bought it because I love it.
QUEST: That's great.
BENIOFF: You know, you can see we've had -- it is a great magazine. Everyone knows here. You know, we just have an incredible issue right now.
Person of the Year: Donald Trump.
QUEST: You don't want TikTok.
BENIOFF: Well I think that if we can abolish Section 230 and hold all of these social media companies accountable for what they're doing, I think
that would be a great thing for the world.
QUEST: Choose your color.
BENIOFF: I will choose blue.
QUEST: Excellent. You know, the next four years, in one word.
QUEST: I'm just going to have to say digital labor.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
QUEST: That is Marc Benioff.
Donald Trump says Ukraine's president told him he wants to reach a deal with Russia to end the war.
After the break, joining me, minister, Prime Minister, forgive me. The prime minister of Croatia will be with me. He met President Zelenskyy here
in Davos. You'll obviously give us an idea and a flavor of what you talked about after the break. Thank you.
ANDREJ PLENKOVIC, CROATIAN PRIME MINISTER: My pleasure.
QUEST: QUEST MEANS BUSINESS.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:32:55]
RICHARD QUEST, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Welcome back. In the last hour, Donald Trump said he would meet immediately with Vladimir Putin and claim
that Ukraine's President Zelenskyy told him he wants to make a deal to end the war. The president told Davos the war serves no purpose.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Beautiful young people are being shot in the battlefield. You know, the bullet, very flat land, as I
said, and the bullet goes -- there's no hiding. And the bullet, the only thing going to stop the bullet is a human body. And you have to see, I've
seen pictures of what's taken place. It's a carnage. And we really have to stop that war. That war is horrible.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
QUEST: Now, Ukraine's President Zelenskyy in Davos met with the Croatian prime minister. Mr. Zelenskyy told Andrej Plenkovic that more weapons will
help bring a just and lasting peace. The prime minister is with me.
Good evening, Prime Minister. Thank you very much. And you heard, obviously, Donald Trump. You heard, you've spoken to Zelenskyy. Do you see
the possibility of an early ceasefire settlement, ending of the war?
ANDREJ PLENKOVIC, CROATION PRIME MINISTER: Well, first of all, I spoke to President Zelenskyy. And we extended solidarity and support for Ukraine,
for Ukrainian people, for their fight for freedom. And I think it was heroic. Now it's three years of Russia's aggression that has not only
caused immense tragedy for the Ukrainian people, but also dire economic and energy consequences for all of us, including social, economic and
inflationary pressures.
The support for Ukraine should be strong. Ukraine only when it's strengthened can be a very good negotiating partner. We have heard the
announcement of President Trump. He doesn't like war. Nobody likes the war. There is no doubt about it. And we are waiting for some more concrete
initiatives. I think that the high level meetings should be well prepared, and only if they are well prepared if Ukraine is at the table, if European
Union is at the table, if United States gives initiative and impulse, and of course, if Russia is at the table, then we can reach --
QUEST: There's a lot of ifs there, Prime Minister.
PLENKOVIC: Yes. That's the -- if the situation was simple, it would have been solved by now.
[16:35:02]
QUEST: OK. So in relation to that, the way we heard President Trump today, invest -- manufacture in the U.S. or you're you going to get tariffs. Don't
do this or are you going to get tariffs. How do you react as a prime minister? I know you want to be diplomatic, but essentially you're being
threatened.
PLENKOVIC: Well, I think that the narrative that we heard today in his address to the World Economic Forum was, by and large, the repetition of
the inaugural speech and also reflects everything that President Trump was speaking in his campaign, a very long lasting campaign. But I think at the
same time, we have now experienced, we have worked together for four years. I was also prime minister during his first tenure, and I think that the
European Union is now in the position to find a pragmatic relationship that will be beneficial for both sides of the Atlantic.
QUEST: Do you -- but that pragmatism, as we heard from the president of the parliament, surely at some point you have to show steel. You have to say,
listen, we want to work with you. We will do. But if not, we are ready. And that's not what I'm hearing from Europe. I'm hearing almost a scaredness.
PLENKOVIC: No, I don't think we are scared. Europe has many advantages. There are many of our companies exporting to the United States. There are a
lot of partnership companies which are registered based on creating jobs in the United States. So I think once we establish our dialog, which should be
really an embodiment of a partnership and trust of allies, then I think these things will be as perhaps they do not sound today.
QUEST: You're talking two different languages. Here you have a president who's basically a bulldozer, meanwhile, you are all talking, well, we'll
have a discussion on this and we'll have a meeting about that, and we'll think about the other.
PLENKOVIC: And that's the way things have been organized between the European Union and the United States for many years. We understand --
QUEST: And that's the problem.
PLENKOVIC: No. Well, I don't think it's a problem. I think we have all prospered. The United States is prospering. European Union is prospering.
The optimism for the growth in this year is better than the last year. Croatia has been the country that has had four times bigger growth than the
average of the E.U. and the eurozone.
QUEST: Absolutely.
PLENKOVIC: So we are, in a way, in the position to catch up with others and want to contribute to the partnership with the United States.
QUEST: All right. Choose your color, sir. Choose your color.
PLENKOVIC: Blue, blue.
QUEST: No, everyone is good. All right. Come over here, sir. Make sure you don't fall over.
PLENKOVIC: Blue is dominant now.
QUEST: Right. The next four years in one word.
PLENKOVIC: In one word. OK.
QUEST: In one word. Oops, do be careful.
PLENKOVIC: I think, well, most of the ones are just chosen.
QUEST: Chose wisely. Yes. Oh, well, you can choose to just make a tick or whatever.
PLENKOVIC: Yes. I think, I would say challenges because challenges are what we have seen so far.
QUEST: Don't worry.
PLENKOVIC: And they will be there even more.
QUEST: Lots of people here. Do be careful. There we go. Our spelling challenged on this one tonight. There we are. Challenges.
Prime Minister, good to see you.
PLENKOVIC: Thank you, Richard. All the best.
QUEST: Thank you so much. I'm very grateful. Thank you.
Now coming up, QUEST MEANS BUSINESS, how a creature that resembles a tiny kangaroo is bouncing back from the brink of extinction and revitalizing
Australian landscapes in the process. There's a whole potpourri on tonight's program. QUEST MEANS BUSINESS.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:41:13]
QUEST: Never let it be said. Never let it be said you don't hear all sorts of stories on QUEST MEANS BUSINESS.
In Australia, the brush tailed bettong is revered as nature's gardener. Digging habits play a vital role in the health of the ecosystem. They look
like a tiny kangaroo, and indeed they once inhabited 60 percent of the mainland but are now only a small pocket.
Today, on "Call to Earth," we visit South Australia, where a project to reintroduce the critically endangered creatures is showing promising
returns.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LYNDA KINKADE, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): Guuranda is an ancient place now known as the Yorke Peninsula, South Australia. New research has recently
revealed that its traditional custodians, the Narungga people, have lived on this land for at least 8,000 years, nurturing its fragile wilderness,
its soul.
GARRY GOLDSMITH, BUSINESS MANAGER, NARUNGGA NATION ABORIGINAL CORPORATION: The best practice has been here for millennia. And I think that's been
ignored for way too long.
KINKADE: Gary Goldsmith is of Narungga descent, and works with the Marna Banggara Project, which aims to protect the health of the region's natural
systems.
GOLDSMITH: It was really important to me to be involved about how I could really influence the traditional and cultural knowledge, and that's part of
our role as traditional owners, as custodians, is to ensure that there is longevity.
KINKADE: In collaboration with the WWF Australia, this ambitious plan involves reintroducing some of the native species gone as a result of
habitat loss and the introduction of feral animals during European colonization.
DEREK SANDOW, MARNA BANGGARA PROJECT MANAGER: Foxes, cats, the loss of habitat. It's just combined together to create a really tough world for
them, and they haven't been able to survive.
Wow. We met your friends today, mate.
KINKADE: Many people will know Rambo here as a brush tailed bettong, its common name. The small and bouncy marsupials are ecosystem engineers
promoting plant growth by aerating soil and spreading seeds as they forage for food.
To the Narungga, Rambo is known as a yowie, and while his kind disappeared from this part of South Australia, the species has survived in a pocket of
the continent's west, the home of the Nyungar people, who call these animals by another name, woylie.
In 2021, the first group of woylies were brought from Western Australia to repopulate the Yorke Peninsula.
GOLDSMITH: The Woylie and Yowie Translocation Project shows that cultural groups are still working together to ensure that each nation is being cared
for as if it was your own.
KINKADE: It's now up to this team of ecologists to make sure they're thriving in the new environment that was once their own.
SANDOW: We've now got to a stage where the habitat is here for yowie. We've reduced fox and cat impacts to a level that's low enough for these yowie to
be reintroduced, and for them to actually find refuges, find food, and to survive themselves with low numbers of foxes and cats.
KINKADE: Caring for the new arrivals means yearly checkups. So just before sunset, the team sets humane traps for the nocturnal marsupial in the hope
that early the next morning, data collected from the wild population will prove that the rewilding plan continues to work.
Daybreak and its discoveries fuel more hope. The first yowie or bettong is a young male born right here.
SANDOW: Which is fantastic for the project. That's what we want to see.
[16:45:03]
KINKADE: The young bettong is tagged and microchipped before his measurements show he's quite healthy in this new home.
SANDOW: So they've got a what we call a prehensile tail. So that means they can actually grab things with their tail and sort of use it as a limb.
KINKADE: One by one, they are tested and released, joining the now growing population of yowie-woylie-bettong, a trio of names for one unique and
vitally important critter back on the Yorke Peninsula, Guuranda, where they belong.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
QUEST: Gosh, I wish I could jump like that. When you need to learn more about the bettongs' amazing comeback, look at the article in the photo
gallery at CNN.com/CalltoEarth.
Back in a moment. QUEST MEANS BUSINESS.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
QUEST: President Trump has railed against European regulation when he spoke to Davos. Many executives on the continent say they share his concern.
Leaders in the tech industry are warning that overregulation on A.I. makes the union less competitive. And as the U.S. announces new initiatives and
investment, Europe needs to catch up.
Christian Klein is with me, the CEO of SAP.
A lot of initials. Good to see you.
CHRISTIAN KLEIN, CEO, SAP: Yes, good to see you, Richard.
QUEST: Do you think that Europe has got its act together sufficiently? And I don't just mean on tariffs, I mean on the whole question of
competitiveness.
KLEIN: No. We don't have our act together. And I mean, when you look at Washington, what happened this week, I mean, you know, there were some bold
decisions on deregulation. And when you look at Europe, I give you one example. Richard. Very practical. We have an E.U. A.I. act done with all
good intentions. But, you know, we have one A.I. act now more. If the 27 member states also have their own A.I. acts, you overregulate and then you
kill innovation before it actually, you know, brings it -- before we bring it to life.
QUEST: Right. But you, of course, are already quite large in the United States, large parts of the company.
KLEIN: Yes.
QUEST: You are not likely, probably, to suffer the tariffs that will come in. It would be difficult to do it in a sense. But many of your company --
of your clients and your customers are now worried about manufacturing in the U.S. Tariffs, tariffs, tariffs.
KLEIN: Yes, that's true. But let's see. I mean, it's too early to tell, I would say.
[16:50:02]
QUEST: Here we go. The European mantra, bark worse than its bite. Let's wait and see. Time will tell.
KLEIN: Yes. Time will tell. And honestly, I mean, when I look at our business and our customers business, we are running the supply chains of
many, many multinationals. I mean, there is no doubt that the supply chains are really dependent on each other, and we absolutely need global trade. I
mean, and there is so much dependencies and I really trust on our political leaders that we will figure that out one way or the other.
QUEST: Right. Now on this program this afternoon, just now, we heard the German finance minister saying that Germany needs deep structural reforms,
the sort of which we've not seen since Gerhard Schroder's time. And whether or not he will be around in a few months to do it is not necessarily the
point. You'd agree with him, there does need to be that reform.
KLEIN: He is absolutely right. Yes. I mean, look, when you look at the German economy and also take digitization. I mean, when you travel through
Germany, I mean, and, you know, you'd see our public administration, I mean, there is, you know, they are lightyears behind, you know, really, you
know, making sure that everything, you know, all kinds of approvals for energy, for the grids, it takes too long. And that is only one example.
QUEST: But are the German people ready for this sort of change that needs to take place?
KLEIN: I would say there is now a big wake-up call. I mean, you see the statutes of our economy. You see what is happening in the U.S. and I feel
the sense of urgency is now there. But, you know, change now needs to happen.
QUEST: Right now. Well, I'm glad you mentioned that because I'm just going to lean forward here. You probably have seen this. This is the Draghi
Report.
KLEIN: I know this script really well.
QUEST: We have a drinking game, by the way. Yes. Every because every European politician is talking -- mentions the Draghi Report. So every time
you hear you have to have a drink. Next time.
KLEIN: Yes.
QUEST: The problem with the Draghi Report is it needs to be implemented.
KLEIN: Yes. It's so far only a piece of paper.
QUEST: Do you have confidence that they will be able to do that?
KLEIN: You know, when I -- when you would have asked me this question six months ago, my confidence would be rather low. Now things have changed. And
the sense of urgency I just talked about clearly also arrived in Brussels. So my confidence actually increased that a lot of this will also be now
executed.
QUEST: Marc Benioff on this program talks about A.I. and of course you've got your own A.I. and on a heavily into A.I. But this idea of human labor
and A.I. labor. Can the two complement each other? I have no doubt that they're going to have to.
KLEIN: Yes.
QUEST: But who's going to lose?
KLEIN: I would say, look, I mean, what kind of options do you have? When you look at SAP and how software development will change, I mean, there's
no doubt that 80 percent of the coding will be done in the future by A.I. powered coding tools. But what is the option of not doing it? And so, but
the software, the profile of our software developers will change, but it will not disappear. So I absolutely believe, you know, it will come
together, but job profiles will change. So enablement training is key.
QUEST: Choose your color.
KLEIN: I would say green.
QUEST: Oh.
KLEIN: Yes.
QUEST: I've got too much green. Come over here, sir. What the next four years in one word?
KLEIN: Yes. I would actually go for growth. We need growth in Europe more than ever.
QUEST: You need growth and growth potential perhaps.
KLEIN: That is also true, but I'm more optimistic. I would say we will be back in growth in latest in two years.
QUEST: I'm very grateful to you, sir. Thank you for joining us.
KLEIN: Yes. Thanks for having me, Richard.
QUEST: Thank you very much indeed.
KLEIN: Thank you.
QUEST: Now, as we look at the board the next four years, we've had such a wonderful range from coherence from Klaus Schwab to growth and growth, from
Christian Klein. And onwards and upwards. Many of these are optimistic.
It's been a grand week with the board.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
QUEST: What word would you use to describe as you see it the next four years? The board is all yours. Turbulent and prayer.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Predictable.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Disorder.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is zeitenwende.
QUEST: Zeitenwende.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. Zeitenwende. Times are changing.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I know a word I want. Realignment.
QUEST: Digital.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Digital. Labor.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think it's an American lesson and a European necessity.
QUEST: Go on.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Self-confidence.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm going to put two. Someone -- come on. Growth potential is two.
QUEST: They tried to fool me on that one.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. Realistic optimism.
QUEST: Oh. Enthusiasm.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What is the thing that powers everything else that we need in order to be able to pay for the other things that we want as we
bring everybody along on the journey? It's growth.
QUEST: Growth potential.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's a long word.
QUEST: And by the way, I'll say it's a lot harder writing on this board than you think.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
QUEST: It's absolutely brilliant. We've been so delighted to have all the contributions to the board, and we look forward to yours, too, as well.
[16:55:03]
We will take a "Profitable Moment" after the break. QUEST MEANS BUSINESS live from Davos.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
QUEST: Well, we decided we'd give you a quick look at how we put all this together. You see that beautiful sight? But this is what's actually all
behind us here that makes it, the cold and the warmth and that -- every Mark, Neal and other people over there, Lorenzo and Chris.
Now, tonight's "Profitable Moment" as we go, we have been here in Davos all week. And the reality is that Europeans and everybody here, business
leaders, really got a shock today because once again, Donald Trump stole the show very simply by telling us what he was always going to do. The real
fact is he's not said anything different from the beginning. He's always said 5 percent for NATO, tariffs if you don't manufacture in the U.S.
My view is the difficulty is Europe is simply not ready for this as Rana Faroohar has said. They are talking about this directorate and that
directorate, the Draghi Report. Take a drink, Clint. Again and again. But the truth is that they are facing a bulldozer of policy towards them, a
fuselage of demands, and they are flailing around trying to work out, is this real or not? Does he mean what he says or not?
And that will be the problem when the metal meets the road or the road meets the rubber or whatever that phrase is. Because believe me, what we've
seen in this Davos is a reality coming home to the world's elite, particularly in Europe. And we've only just begun. Donald Trump is merely
doing what he's always said he was going to do.
And that's QUEST MEANS BUSINESS for this evening, this Thursday night. I'm Richard Quest with Clint, hello, in Davos. Whatever you're up to in the
hours ahead, I hope it's profitable. I thank you for joining us.
END
