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Quest Means Business
Trump Threatens Tariffs with Japanese Prime Minister; US Jobs Report: Employers Added 143K Jobs in January; Trump Expected to Slash 97 Percent of USAID Workforce; Trump: Europe Is Lagging Behind U.S. In Support For Ukraine; Trump Uses Tariffs, Threats In Disputes With Other Countries; Baltic States Readying To Cut Ties To Russian Power Grid. Aired 4-5p ET
Aired February 07, 2025 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[16:00:19]
RICHARD QUEST, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST, "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS": Closing bell ringing on Wall Street. The gavel is just about to fall. Madame, you can
stop ringing the bell. And sir, one, two, three. Trading is over. You can see from the course of the day, we were down here. Two major factors, it is
inflationary expectations that's there and that's tariffs over there. But it is a bit of an ugly day to close out the week. Those are the markets and
the main events you and I will be talking about in the next hour.
President Trump welcomes Japan's prime minister to the White House and threatens him with tariffs.
A symbolic moment. The USAID sign comes down on the building as the president plans to slash 97 percent of its workforce.
And why meat and two veg simply isn't sustainable. One of the world's most famous chefs says we need to rethink what makes a meal.
Tonight, we are live from London on Friday, February the 7th. I am Richard Quest, and here in London, as elsewhere, I mean business.
Good evening.
Economic tensions were on full display today between the United States and one of its top trading partners, Japan.
The president welcomed the Japanese Prime Minister Shigeru Ishiba to the White House. The meeting started out on a tense note, as the president said
the trade deficit between the two countries is too high and then warned he would or could unveil tariffs if it is not reduced.
The Japanese prime minister spoke about his impressions of Mr. Trump at the news conference following the meeting.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SHIGERU ISHIBA, JAPANESE PRIME MINISTER (through translator): For many, many years i have watched him on television. So it was quite exciting -- I
was so excited to see such a celebrity on television, to see in person.
On television, he is frightening and he has a very strong personality. But when I met with him, actually, he was very sincere and very powerful and
with strong will.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
QUEST: Now, the prime minister promised a large new investment in the United States and the two leaders said Japan would begin importing more
LNG, liquid natural gas from the United States.
The president said that Nippon Steel would invest in US Steel rather than buy it. Well, the market didn't particularly like that. The shares are
down, the best part of six percent.
Kevin Liptak at the White House, Hanako Montgomery is in Tokyo.
Good, and we will start with you -- we will well start with you, Kevin. Good old fashioned flattery always works at the White House. Call it --
call the president frightening and then say he is a good man. Oh, and then come along with a bag of goodies on trade.
KEVIN LIPTAK, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Yes, I think a trillion dollar investment might be exactly what Donald Trump was looking for out of
this meeting, and I think it is pretty clear that Prime Minister Ishiba is reading his playbook for how to deal with the most mercurial of American
presidents.
And you could see there in the East Room, the president -- President Trump, that is, smiling very broadly as he was listening to the translator express
Ishiba's view of the president and his view of him as maybe not less -- I mean, not as frightening as he might have expected.
And it is clear that Ishiba has followed a playbook here that I think was established by the Prime Minister, Shinzo Abe, who, you'll remember in
Trump's first term made that trek to Trump Tower carrying a set of gold plated golf clubs to try and make his impressions early on in that
presidency and he was very successful in a lot of ways.
He put himself face-to-face with Trump throughout that, and it was successful. You know, Trump put in a moderate trade deal with Japan. He
didn't apply the harsh tariffs that he might have expected. So there was some success in that strategy. And I think it is clear that Ishiba is
following something of a similar playbook here.
Those tariffs, I think, were hypothetical. You know, we have not heard President Trump mention Japan when he is talking about tariffs previously.
QUEST: Right.
LIPTAK: And I think that's one of the risks in these meetings is you show up and suddenly it comes to mind that maybe Japan could be a target as
well.
So there are risks to these meetings, but I think overall, it was something of a warm talk in the Oval Office at that time.
[16:05:10]
QUEST: Okay, to Tokyo, thank you for staying up all night, essentially, Hanako, I am grateful. How will all of this go down? Because obviously the
prime minister knew he had a job to do, which was to avoid the worst wrath in a sense of tariffs, and it does seem at the moment he may have gotten
away with it.
HANAKO MONTGOMERY, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Richard. It is good to see you.
And as you put it, I mean, I think Japan sees this Summit as one that was often quite successful and one that they were really able to show that the
US-Japan Alliance could continue to be strong and could be even stronger in the future.
Now, Ishiba has been criticized in the past as someone who is not as charismatic, not as charming as his predecessor, Shinzo Abe, who of course
shared a very good relationship with the US President Donald Trump during his first term.
But according to one senior Japanese official I spoke with who actually attended today's Summit, he said that the two leaders actually seemed to
enjoy one another's company, that they seem to be able to talk freely and openly with one another, and it seems as though it is a really good step in
the right direction.
So now, it does seem as though the two countries will look to build on their relationship further. And of course, also it seems as though Trump
seems that -- he seems to think that Japan is also a very significant ally for the United States.
As Kevin just put there, he didn't impose any significant tariffs on Japan just yet. He didn't ask Japan to boost its defense spending even further,
and the two countries announced a wide variety of different economic contributions and collaborations, for instance, developing AI, developing
semiconductors, and also, for instance, Japan importing America's liquefied natural gas as you put -- Richard.
QUEST: All right, I am grateful to you both. Thank you.
We will watch and we will see if that actually comes on, retaliatory tariffs, of course, could be something different. I am grateful.
Now, US jobs growth slowed in January. It remains solid. The reading is the first set of numbers since Donald Trump took office, but probably way too
early to have any effect from his announcements.
One hundred forty-three thousand jobs were added last month. That's 30,000 shy, and the unemployment rate edged lower to four percent, and most
economists expect it to hold steady.
One sign of potential concern, the latest revision lowers the number of jobs added last year by nearly 600,000.
Julia Pollak is the chief economist at Ziprecruiter and joins me from Los Angeles.
Lagging indicators always are the numbers, but taking that lag into account, what do you make of the number?
JULIA POLLAK, CHIEF ECONOMIST, ZIPRECRUITER: Well, I think this report is interesting in that it shows the labor market tightened, not something that
most economists were expecting to see, but it does show uneven growth.
With healthcare remaining the bright spot in the labor market in the US, but other sectors still struggling to add jobs.
The other interesting figure here in this report is the shrinking of the workweek. Typically, that's a sign of slack. So it is a very mixed report
all around.
QUEST: Okay, now this mixed report doesn't obviously take into account the shift in the environment. Now I know that 40,000 federal employees who may
or may not take the buyout from the government and 10,000 from USAID, that's small in comparison to the total numbers. But we are seeing a shift
in government employment.
How would you expect that to transmit itself through the system?
POLLAK: It is an interesting question.
Well, government is one of the sectors that has been adding jobs most quickly and unusually quickly over the last two years as it has caught up,
you know, belatedly following the private sector getting way out ahead and raising wages more quickly during labor shortages.
So government has been a bright spot, but it has actually been state and local government that has been driving growth, not the federal government.
Here, we are likely to see federal government job losses in the coming months. And you know, the numbers are relatively small compared to the
overall labor market.
So we are not going to see an aggregate effect really.
QUEST: No, but there may not be a direct impact, but what about an indirect impact and what I am thinking about is today, we got inflationary
expectations numbers and we've got -- we see the market now expecting higher inflation for all sorts of reasons not related to the new policies.
If you take higher inflationary expectations and job worries, do you end up with a difficult situation?
[16:10:00]
POLLAK: So you know, the US labor market is huge, but there is no such thing as the labor market. There are millions of different occupation
locations, specific markets that we at Ziprecruiter called O Clocks and federal workers are quite heavily concentrated by geography in the DC,
Virginia, Maryland area. They are also concentrated by task and role type in administration and project management, and in IT.
And so, yes, you will have a situation in those local markets where people struggle to find work and, and perhaps have to settle for lower wages.
QUEST: One final point, I do want to -- since you are such an expert, obviously, on this. The impact on employment of the undocumented workers.
We are seeing now across the board in New York, where I live, you know, restaurants are closing because they haven't got staff. We are seeing
elsewhere farm workers now having farms, having difficulty getting workers because the undocumented workers don't want to turn up.
At what stage does that and how will that show itself to us in the overall labor picture, or will it not?
POLLAK: So already immigration has slowed, and as a result, we will likely see these monthly job gain numbers get lower. We also have an aging
population. We are in the middle of what is called peak 65, with very large numbers of Americans turning 65, aging out of the labor force and retiring
each year.
So we should expect to see job gains slow. That said, it doesn't necessarily mean that the labor market will slacken. If unemployment stays
low. Well, it may not be such a terrible thing.
It is sort of hard to know what the overall effect will be of an increase in labor costs.
QUEST: Very, very tricky times. Thank you. Very grateful. I am appreciative of your time today. Thank you.
Now, US Agency for International Aid, USAID is on the verge of being dismantled, if it hasn't already. The Trump administration now says it is
expected to get rid of 97 percent of its employees. And I mean, you know things are bad when the sign above the door is physically removed.
QUEST MEANS BUSINESS.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
QUEST: Well, there goes the sign for USAID, the physical sign being removed from its Washington headquarters. A pair of labor groups are suing to stop
Donald Trump's effort to dismantle the agency, and not exactly preserve the name.
[16:15:05]
Most of its employees, 10,000 employees, will be put on leave at midnight tonight, and overall, 10,000 is expected to become 300.
So USAID, we've told you before, but let's remind ourselves, it spends money, American taxpayers' money to be fair on development overseas.
Jordan is a top recipient, more than $1.3 billion last year. The funds have been used for education, healthcare, and gender equality.
South Africa receives hundreds of millions of dollars. Some went to vital health assistance. The White House said there are waivers for that kind of
aid, but it is not clear whether South Africa has got them, particularly bearing in mind the animus from Elon Musk and the president to the current
South African government.
Ukraine has been by far the top recipient of US aid. Kyiv secured more than $6 billion in 2024 to agriculture, education, energy and health programs.
Alex is with me. Alex Marquardt is with me.
Alex, we've talked several times this week about it, and I don't think we could get a more definitive sort of its over, turn off the lights. They are
removing the name above the door.
I understand the litigation that is taking place, but it is -- you know, as I think that lovely phrase is, a day late and a dollar short.
ALEX MARQUARDT, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: It is happening as we speak. In fact, there is a hearing going on in federal court here in
Washington, DC.. USAID seeking a temporary restraining order. They are certainly trying to stop the Trump administration from what they see as a
wholesale gutting of their agency, their independent agency, and the main accusation there, Richard, is that what the Trump administration has been
doing is illegal, that USAID was created as an independent agency by Congress, and only Congress can change that.
And what we have seen in the past week, very quickly, this spiraling into a situation where the State Department under Marco Rubio is absorbing all of
USAID and, as you say, dramatically slashing the workforce down to several hundred.
We've been reporting that it is 300. The administration is pushing back a little bit, saying they are going to keep 600 as essential staff, so we are
trying to put a finer point on that, but whichever the number, it is going to be a fraction of the overall workforce around the world.
QUEST: What is their official response to this allegation that Congress appointed and created, only Congress can destroy the constitutional
argument. What does the administration actually say on that, or do they not --
MARQUARDT: Well, the -- you're right that in this lawsuit, what the plaintiffs are alleging is that this is not constitutional and that it goes
against federal law. What the administration is saying is that, yes, there has been some independence, but that the administrator of USAID does report
to the Secretary of State.
And so they are certainly downplaying the movement of the agency into under the State Department umbrella. This raises all kinds of legal questions,
and we are not hearing from Republicans who in the past have supported USAID in Congress, leaping to the defense of the agency. Democrats are
certainly howling about this.
So we are going to see this unfold in court, but to what extent, the judge today is at least going to agree with the side of USAID, that remains to be
seen. To what extent the courts, the judicial system, can actually put a stop to what the administration is doing here is a major question.
Of course, Richard, as you know, things like this are happening all across the federal government, but USAID in particular.
QUEST: Yes, I am grateful to you, sir. And we will talk more next week. Have a good weekend.
MARQUARDT: Thank you.
QUEST: The dismantling of USAID could hit Sub Saharan Africa perhaps the hardest. The stories that we are now hearing of programs being canceled,
experiments being curtailed, aid not being delivered.
CNN's Larry Madowo reports from Uganda.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SAMUEL LINDA, HIV PATIENT: I feel traumatized. I feel low.
LARRY MADOWO, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Thirty-six-year-old Samuel Linda has been living with HIV since 2014, getting his life-saving drugs
from a USAID project, but his supplies are almost out.
LINDA: I feel like the world is ending tomorrow because I don't know where I am going to go. I don't know by tomorrow if I will be alive or dead.
MADOWO: He distributes US funded condoms in his community to stop new infections and make sure the infected keep taking their medications.
Meanwhile, patients at this USAID funded facility in the Ugandan capital, Kampala, wait, hoping the treatments are still available.
Nearly 1,000 employees here have been furloughed after the US stop work orders. It is still running, for now, though no one knows for how much
longer.
[16:20:10]
Its leader, Dr. Andrew Kambugu is a UC Berkeley alum who is grateful for American generosity, but worries about the future for his staff and
patients.
DR. ANDREW KAMBUGU, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR INFECTIOUS DISEASES INSTITUTE UGANDA: We are in the throes of an Ebola outbreak and before the Ebola
outbreak, Uganda is grappling with an mpox outbreak. So we find ourselves in a situation where a number of infectious diseases have converged.
MADOWO (voice over): USAID is a lifeline to millions here, millions who would be stuck without it.
MADOWO (on camera): These are thank you notes from patients here to the medical team at the Infectious Diseases Institute in Uganda. They cover
HIV, TB, mpox and even the current Ebola outbreak, the country's eighth.
The implication is that US funding has kept patients like these ones alive.
MADOWO (voice over): The US is one of Uganda's largest donors, spending more than half a billion dollars in healthcare alone every year. More than
a third of USAID funds came to Africa in 2023. Those dollars saved lives, but also supported many Americans.
WINNIE BYANYIMA, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, UNAIDS: Without US funding, people die. Without global collaboration, people die.
MADOWO (voice over): Winnie Byanyima runs the UN's Global Response to the AIDS epidemic. They warn that up to 6.3 million people could die by 2029 if
the US cuts off funding.
Americans will also lose out.
BYANYIMA: Actually, sometimes I say we have the diseases, they have the profits. They make money. The aid connects them to markets and markets
benefit American companies and American jobs are created at home.
MADOWO (on camera): So USAID is not just charity to African countries.
BYANYIMA: No, no, no. It is mutually beneficial.
MADOWO (voice over): But the negative sentiment isn't one that is shared by all of Africa's leaders.
In an exclusive interview with CNN, Rwanda's president says the continent has to wean itself off aid.
PAUL KAGAME, RWANDAN PRESIDENT: In President Trump's unconventional ways of doing things, I completely agree with him on many things.
MADOWO (on camera): Even though it will hurt you as Rwanda, which depends on some US aid to fund your healthcare and development.
KAGAME: We might learn some lessons.
MADOWO (voice over): Self-sufficient countries might sound ideal in theory, but it brings little comfort to the millions across the world whose very
survival hangs in the balance.
Larry Madowo, CNN, Kampala, Uganda.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
QUEST: Now putting the cat among the pigeons, so to speak, the new cover of "Time" Magazine is putting a spotlight on Elon Musk's unofficial role in
Washington. It shows the world's richest man sitting alone behind the Resolute Desk, the president's desk.
The cover article looks at Musk's relationship with Donald Trump and how his team of young engineers have gained access to federal government
systems.
The president has reacted to the cover with praise for what Mr. Musk is doing.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Is "Time" Magazine still in business? I didn't even know that.
(LAUGHTER)
REPORTER: Elon is doing a great job. He is finding tremendous fraud and corruption and waste. You see it with the USAID, but you're going to see it
even more so with other agencies and other parts of government.
He has got a staff that's fantastic. He is wanting to be able to do this for a long time.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
QUEST: Mr. Musk's Department of Government Efficiency has been reshaping the US government with very little transparency.
Rene Marsh, good to see you. She joins me from Washington.
Team DOGE, we sort of knew that they were coming from Silicon Valley and from all parts and they were young and they were vibrant and enthusiastic.
Now, what's the reality?
RENE MARSH, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: The reality is, you know, it is this slate of 20-something year-old engineers who are showing up at these
government agencies. One source told me at one agency that one of these members of DOGE is walking around the office and sitting in meetings with
other career staffers who are dressed in suit and tie, but that individual, the young engineer, is in a crushed t-shirt. So just giving you some
imagery there.
But again, these are a slate of these 20-something-year-old engineers who appear to lack government experience, but they're quite knowledgeable and
have been quite successful in the tech world.
So who are some of these people?
According to CNN's sourcing and reporting, a 23-year-old software engineer from Nebraska who used AI to decipher an ancient scroll that was buried for
centuries. That's one of the people showing up at these agencies. Another was a runner up in a hackathon contest in his last year at Harvard
University.
[16:25:10]
A third is a CEO of a multi-billion dollar startup, and a fourth graduated from high school just last year, enrolled, it seems, at Northeastern
University, and he interned for one of Musk's companies.
But again, these engineers are getting access to a lot of data and information, and it is causing alarm amongst many people here in
Washington, including Democratic senators who just last week wrote a letter to the White House saying that there has been very little transparency
surrounding the type of information that these individuals are getting and the sort of background checks that they are undergoing before they are able
to access these systems.
QUEST: You see, the problem is, first of all, you know, these may not -- the way they've gone for payment systems, the way they've gone for the
technology shows that they've realized very early on that the way to grab the federal government, if you will, is to do it through the payment
system, through the technology, not through some long meetings and policy groups.
But no amount of Democratic senators bleating on the floor is having any effect. These people are actually succeeding in their mission.
Love it or hate it, that's the reality.
MARSH: Yes. I mean, you're right. I mean, to the point earlier, they may not know how government works, but they know where to go and they know what
is the nerve center of the federal government and we are seeing them go to those places, that again, is the nucleus of the federal government and how
it actually is able to carry out its missions.
And you're right. I mean, I've heard from sources in some of these agencies that these young staffers, these young engineers are doing keyword
searches, looking for things like equity, DEI, finding contracts that the government has with those sort of buzzwords in them and flagging those
contracts to be canceled, that sort of thing.
So to your point, they may not know how government works, but they know where they need to go to find what they are looking for.
But the concern, though, that many people who are watching this with their jaws wide open is that they are coming to Washington, DC with a Silicon
Valley mindset, which is break it, then fix it. And the concern is when you break the federal government --
QUEST: Sure.
MARSH: -- it may be hard to fix because the American public might suffer.
QUEST: I am going to use the analogy I used earlier, with one of our colleagues. I agree with what you're saying about the concern, but the
concerns are a day late and a dollar short.
By the time anybody does anything about the concern, it has happened and the results are for everyone to see.
MARSH: It is happening right now. I mean --
QUEST: Exactly.
MARSH: You know, contracts have already been flagged for cancellation. We have been reporting how many of these federal workers have already received
paid leave and the reason that they've been able to do that is because they're using AI and software to go through job descriptions to figure out
who is working on what, who is working on certain policies that have to do with issues that this administration sees as not valuable.
So yes, it is very much in progress at this point.
QUEST: Grateful to have you. Thank you. Have a good weekend. Thank you very much indeed.
MARSH: You, too.
QUEST: As you and I continue tonight, President Trump has threatened tariffs on Japan if the trade deficit doesn't improve. It is the latest
country facing the threats from the administration.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
RICHARD QUEST, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Returning to our top story. President Trump claims Europe is lagging behind the U.S. when it comes to
support for Ukraine. He's speaking alongside the Japanese Prime Minister when the President said he wants the rest of NATO overall to catch up on
spending what the U.S. does.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R) PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Europe is putting up much less money than us. Much NATO, Europe. Call it whatever you want and we're
at probably 300 billion plus, and they're at probably the real number is 100 billion. That's a lot of money, but it's 200 billion less than us, and
there's an ocean in between. They need it more than ourselves. We're asking them to equalize and get even.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
QUEST: (INAUDIBLE) the only international critique in his first few weeks, in addition to attacking Europe over defense spending and threatening
tariffs, which he says are almost a certainty. There is the dispute over the status of Greenland. He's imposed 10 percent tariffs on China,
threatened tariffs against U.S. neighbors, Canada and Mexico, regardless of the USMCA. But he did walk back imposing tariffs on Colombia when its
president Gustavo Petro agreed to receive migrants.
And President Trump's gone off to Panama over the treatment of us vessels in the canal. Fareed is with me. Fareed Zakaria, host of "FAREED ZAKARIA
GPS." Of all Canada, Mexico, Panama, Colombia, Japan, China. Tariffs of all the brigacies as they might say that his cause. Which do you think is the
most serious?
FAREED ZAKARIA, HOST, FAREED ZAKARIA GPS: Well, the most serious is the rift with Europe, because first, it has a much larger effect which is the
United States and Europe have essentially been joined at the hip and presented a kind of common front against the Soviet Union, against Islamic
terror, against China, against Russia and Ukraine. And then there is the specific issue of the fate of Ukraine, and therefore the fate of Russian
aggression.
So, if the -- if that -- it's all very well to threaten Europeans to force them to spend more. But the question is, will that translate into a real
rift, and will the United States abandon Europe in some way or abandon the Transatlantic Alliance? If it does, that overshadows everything else,
because that has been the anchor of the post 1945 international system.
QUEST: So far, at every blush, somebody's turned and the President's either got his way, or at least it seems that way, Colombia, Panama, Canada,
Mexico, all gave up something. Do you -- are you of the opinion that at some point President Trump will follow through on a threat, if only to
prove this idea, you know, his bark is not just always works in his bike. He can actually do what he says?
ZAKARIA: Well, you raise a very good point, but I read the situation slightly differently. I think the Canadians and the Mexicans essentially
played Trump. They realized that he was barking. They realized that they had to make really token concessions.
[16:35:00]
I mean, the Mexicans surged to 10,000 more troops at the border, I think two or three times under Biden and at his request, and they did the same
with Trump. The Canadians basically just promised to implement the plan they already had. So, the question is, does Trump worry that he's, you
know, he's coming across like the boy who cried wolf, and will he therefore feel he has to do one of these things?
Now the guardrail here is the only guardrail Donald Trump cares about, which is the markets. If there were to be severe tariffs on the European
Union, I suspect markets would not like that. And if the markets get roiled, Trump pulls back. So, you'll notice on Europe, he's talked a tough
talk, but he hasn't threatened specific sanctions by a specific date.
QUEST: We've got this idea of retaliatory tariffs and the latest sort of times that he's wanting to introduce. Do you believe that the E.U. is --
it's bit of a strong phrase, but you'll know what I mean, fit for purpose in able to negotiate with him, because by the time you've got council,
commission, Parliament, you've got this directive, that directive and everything? Meanwhile, Donald Trump says, by midnight tonight, the tariffs
are on. What do you think?
ZAKARIA: So, the European Union is actually unified on a few things quite well, and trade is one of them. Historically, they have been able to act as
one on trade. The challenge is that Trump can easily exploit differences within Europe. You know, the big difference is the United States is still
basically an 80 percent domestic economy. It's, you know, despite being sort of sitting on top of the world of globalization.
The U.S. economy is actually not that globalized. That is not true for Europe, that is not true for Britain, that is not true for Germany. So, he
could play some of that, those tensions, there's not so much the European Union. That's the problem. It's that, will Germany be willing with that --
with an economy that is 50 percent trade, will it be willing to get go down and protect, you know, protectionist wreck?
QUEST: That -- we've been there before. We've seen the results, and it doesn't bother. Fareed, I'm very grateful for your time tonight. Thank you.
Have a good weekend.
ZAKARIA: Lose, lose, Richard. It's lose, lose, but that's the world we're in right now.
QUEST: Absolutely. Thank you, sir. I'm grateful. Have a good weekend.
Now, the Baltic states are disconnecting from Russia's power bridge this weekend, a move that's been years in the making, in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
QUEST: The company Oklo is congratulating its former board member, Chris Wright. He was recently confirmed as the new U.S. Energy Secretary. He has
now resigned, of course, from the board. Mr. Oklo says right -- so Oklo says Mr. Wright's experience in energy and technology was instrumental in
shaping its vision. A vision that seems to be paying off or closed shares and more than doubled this year.
Now it develops ways to power A.I. data centers with nuclear energy, small nuclear power stations, basically. Jacob DeWitte is the chief executive.
Joins me now. Good to have you again, sir. I see you've got a picture of one of your -- behind you, of one of your cute nuclear --
(CROSSTALK)
JACOB DEWITTE, CHIEF EXECUTIVE, OKLO INC.: -- I had to make sure it's front and center.
QUEST: Absolutely. I still -- I'm still looking forward to going and seeing what -- but look, first of all, I mean, I'm not, for a second, suggesting
that the secretary, you know, will favor, you know, now he is energy secretary. I would -- I'm not stressing that for one second. What I am
saying though, is that you have a very good understanding of what his priorities are, and that your company is probably well and truly within
that ambit of energy diversification and sustainability and sufficiency.
DEWITTE: Yes. I mean, first of all, I really can't imagine a better secretary of energy from someone who is truly an energy expert and a self-
proclaimed energy nerd. I want that right as a secretary of energy and he's someone who spent his whole life fascinated by how we as humankind and
harness and use energy to better right our lives, and has dedicated himself to work on that.
And a number of different fields ranging from, you know, more conventional oil and gas but also support on nuclear as well as geothermal. So, I think
you're going to see a pretty exciting era ahead as we try to sort of accelerate and unleash even more potential in this country, given all of
the amazing resources we have.
QUEST: But the role of fossil fuels, LNG, the growth that we're going to see. I mean, in a sense, that is a contradiction. It's a downright
contradiction in terms to what you are offering, which is a fossil fuel alternative. I mean, in a cheapish form of nuclear fuel, which has its own
problems, but it is the primary easy option against fossil fuel.
DEWITTE: Yes. I think when we look at it and I think what, you know, one of the reasons we were excited to get Chris involved with the company as an
investor and then a board member, he's always been about just more reliable, abundant and more affordable energy. But a key term of all that
is more because I think when you look at what is one of the greatest drivers on human development and quality of life across the entire planet,
its access to energy.
We have way too many people on this planet on energy poverty. And we even have energy poverty issues in the United States that, you know, at the end
of the day, we're going to need to address with everything on the end. But you have to think about the long timescales here. Nuclear, to me, is a
vastly superior energy source than everything out there, including fossil systems.
It will, I think, inevitably replace those, but it's going to take some time, just given the dominance that that that oil and gas have had. And I
think if you talk to folks even in the oil and gas side, or see the sort of and understand the actual energy physics, they wouldn't disagree with that
and that's why you see some of them getting involved in nuclear because it's like, all right, this is maybe the multi-decadal or even century scale
but that's where we're going to go.
QUEST: Do you think LNG is sort of the cuckoo in the nest here that everybody is saying that it is the panacea in a sense. It is the -- it is
the transition fuel to a greener. But the critics say it's even worse than and there are some of them who say, you know, they'd rather open up a coal
fire station, a coal power station, than have a bit of LNG.
DEWITTE: Yes. I think that's a little silly but I do think -- I mean, LNG plays an important role to be in -- being able to play, you know, basically
export the resource we have. But look, it's from a physics perspective. It's just not as good as what you can get with nuclear, right? I mean, when
you split it out and you get you get 50 million times more energy than a typical hydrocarbon reaction.
I mean, 50 million times is a great advantage to have. So, physics is going to win here and drive this stuff forward.
QUEST: When am I going to get to see one of those things behind you?
DEWITTE: Well, we're very excited to -- I mean, what you said, we're going to have to invite you out when we turn one of these on. So, you know,
targeting 2027 for that first flight to come online and maybe bring you out for some of the activities going on.
QUEST: I'm getting on -- I'm getting on a bit in years. Don't wait too long. You know --
(CROSSTALK)
DEWITTE: No. We won't -- we won't wait too long. Just a couple.
QUEST: Good to see you, sir. Thank you so much. Very grateful for your time tonight.
DEWITTE: Thank you.
QUEST: Thank you. Now the Baltic states. This is fascinating.
[16:45:00]
They're disconnecting from Russia's power grid this weekend. It's taken years of planning to get this far. CNN's Clare Sebastian explains that the
security concerns that Lithuania, Estonia and Latvia, the three Baltic nations are facing, they're turning the page. And this is an important page
to be turned on their Soviet past.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CLARE SEBASTIAN, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Cutting One of the last Ties to Moscow.
This is an old Soviet electrical cable that, until recently, linked Lithuania to a Russian-run power grid. Dismantling it is one of the final
stages in a years-long project by the three Baltic states to take back control.
VOOTELE PAI, ADVISER TO ESTONIA'S INTERIOR MINISTRY: Here in this region, we understand fairly well that the cheap Russian energy, in whatever form
it comes, it always comes at a price that no democratic European country should be able to afford.
SEBASTIAN (voice-over): More than 30 years after Soviet troops rumbled back over the border, and two decades after joining NATO and the E.U., Estonia,
Latvia and Lithuania are once again looking nervously to the East.
The war in Ukraine revealing just how willing Moscow is to both weaponize electricity and, as NATO warned again this week, disrupt daily life in
Europe through suspected acts of sabotage, ranging from cyberattacks to arson.
SEBASTIAN (on camera): Now, the Baltics have been preparing for this moment for many years, building three new undersea cables to the Nordic countries
and a critical link to Poland.
And that meant that they were actually able to stop buying electricity from Russia more than two years ago. But Moscow still controlled the shared grid
and managed the frequency. And so, they were vulnerable.
SEBASTIAN (voice-over): Ahead of the switch, security has been stepped up around energy infrastructure.
DOVILE SAKALIENE, LITHUANIAN DEFENSE MINISTER: We're increasing our surveillance efforts. We're increasing our additional security measures. We
are going to watch this with an eye of a hawk.
SEBASTIAN (voice-over): And NATO now has a new mission to protect undersea cables in the Baltic after a string of incidents, including one right here,
the Estlink-2 power cable, badly damaged on Christmas day.
This ship, which was en route from Russia, suspected by Finnish police of dragging its anchor almost 100 kilometers along the seabed.
Russia has denied any involvement, Moscow calling it anti-Russian hysteria.
SAKALIENE: To imagine that this -- this series of incidents are happening just before we disconnect from the Russian network again. One more
coincidence, really?
SEBASTIAN (voice-over): The Baltic power switch is a blow for Moscow, experts say. Its Westernmost outpost of Kaliningrad, home of its Baltic
fleet, now even more isolated. Its power lines, relics of a superpower past, redrawn.
Clare Sebastian, CNN, London.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
QUEST: As we continue, the chef, Daniel Humm who's already climbed the top of the culinary world, says it's time for a new legacy. Join me for dinner
after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:50:43]
QUEST: Yes, there we go. You cannot beat a good meal. And what makes a good meal? Well, it's usually the classics, isn't it? A gross meat and two veg.
Now, one of the world's most famous chefs tells me that this meal simply isn't sustainable, and that's why it is three-Michelin-star restaurant 11
Madison Park in New York. He decided all of a sudden, after the pandemic, to go plant based. Plant based.
We talked about it last night, but we looked at the food. What about the philosophy? Now the chef, Daniel Humm told me we need to rethink what we
put in our plates.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DANIEL HUMM, CHEF AND OWNER, DANIEL HUMM HOSPITALITY: You know, our restaurant was famous for duck and lobster and foie gras and lobster and
all the egg caviar and all these things, you know --
QUEST (on camera): You're killing me. y favorites.
HUMM: And we removed them all.
QUEST (on camera): You committed a crime.
QUEST (voice-over): In 2017 Daniel Humm was on top of the culinary world. 11 Madison Park named the best restaurant by world's 50 best restaurants.
He had Michelin stars, glowing New York Times reviews and patrons willing to spend hundreds of dollars lining up, waiting to come through the doors
every night. A few years on, after a pandemic and a revelation. Chef Humm changed everything.
HUMM: All of a sudden, I found this new energy and disconnection to food as a language. So then when it was time to reopen the restaurant, I felt like
we had a responsibility to use this platform for change, for a more sustainable food system.
QUEST (voice-over): The move made headlines in the culinary world because it was a decision that changed the entire identity of this successful
celebrity New York institution.
QUEST (on camera): One doesn't wake up on an average Tuesday morning in October and say, I'm going to go plant based.
HUMM: No, but maybe on a January 1st.
QUEST (on camera): No, but what did happen? What did happen? You don't just make that decision on a whim.
HUMM: Look creatively. I knew we could create a meal that was fully plant based, that was just as exquisite as before. I think it was also around the
question of luxury and some of the things we perceive as luxurious are old ideas and when we really look into it, they're not so luxurious anymore. Do
we really need to fly in Kobe beef from Japan that comes in a frozen block in a cardboard box that then is one of the most luxurious items on the
menu? We did all of that, but I think the pandemic has really given us some time to rethink.
QUEST (on camera): Is it more expensive your ingredients to do plant based?
HUMM: You know, it's like running our own farm is expensive because there's just a lot of cost, even beyond just the ingredients, just running a farm
for 12 months a year. And then in terms of the preparation of the ingredients, it takes a lot more manpower.
QUEST (on camera): Is this replicative? Can you take this and put it somewhere else?
HUMM: I mean, to me, Levin Madison Park regardless of plant based or not, this is one of a kind.
QUEST (on camera): How many -- how many people have tried to entice you to open a branch somewhere else?
HUMM: I mean, we get this opportunity on a weekly basis. But to me, this restaurant is really unique to this location.
QUEST (voice-over): While Chef Humm has no plans to expand his restaurant, no franchising, he's hoping to bring its planned forward ideas to more
diners. So, he's partnered with UNESCO to those efforts. The agencies named him their first ever Goodwill Ambassador for food education.
[16:55:04]
HUMM: You know, this is a little restaurant on a corner, you know, of a street in New York, and now to have this sort of partner to spread what
we're doing further, I think it's can be very powerful.
QUEST (on camera): I do wonder, whether -- I mean, just watching you then, you were doing a really good aw-shucks. We're just a little corner
restaurant in New York. No, you're not. Look at it. It's a glorious room, one of the most well-known restaurants in the world and you've got a legacy
to hold on to.
HUMM: Or to build, really. I think -- I think -- I think that's what's exciting for me, coming out of the pandemic, to kind of figure out, OK,
what is our legacy? And I think just winning awards isn't the only thing. Like today, if we have a voice to speak at the COP climate conference or to
go visit these Biosphere Reserves with the UNESCO. That means like this is -- and educate younger generations.
I think that's where it's really to make our legacy and it's not in winning the three stars and the number one in the world. So, I think the work has
really -- we've created a platform but now I think the work is just starting.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
QUEST: Oh, I can't wait. More work. Now, just into CNN. It may be Friday afternoon, but the news never stops. A federal judge has temporarily
blocked President Trump from putting at least 2000, 2200 USAID workers on leave. The machinations of why we are still working out as we get the
judgment. We'll have more of that at the top of the hour. I will have for you a profitable moment after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
QUEST: Tonight's profitable moment. Gosh. What a day it has been, what a week it has been, and we have so much more ahead. Next week, we'll be in
Dubai at the World Government Summit. And that's QUEST MEANS BUSINESS for tonight. I'm Richard Quest in London. Whatever you're up during the hours
ahead, have a good weekend. I'll see you in Dubai on Monday. (INAUDIBLE)
JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: Chiefs three peat. It's Super Bowl weekend. We're going to check in live with our teams down in New Orleans.
Plus, Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau caught on a hot mic talking about President Trump. So, what did he have to say about Trump's proposal
to make Canada the 51st state?
Leading this hour, however, is there anything that Elon Musk cannot touch when it comes to his efforts to shrink the federal government? President
Trump was asked that question this afternoon as Musk's DOGE program faces multiple lawsuits for the work it's doing inside different government
agencies. Let's start with CNN's Jeff Zeleny at the White House. And Jeff more on Musk in a sec. But we do have some breaking news as those efforts
by Trump and Musk to shrink the government have hit another roadblock. Tell us more.
[17:00:00]
JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF U.S. NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Jake, we do. Another afternoon, another court ruling trying to at least put a temporary
pause on the Trump administration's effort to reshape and remake the government.
END
