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Quest Means Business
Trump Hosts Crypto Leaders At White House; Investigators Give Update On Death Of Gene Hackman, Wife; Medical Examiner: Gene Hackman Died Days After His Wife Died; Official: Gene Hackman Died Of Heart Disease With Alzheimer's As Contributing Factor; WTO Chief: We Need To Listen To Trump's Concerns; Trump Upends U.S. Foreign Policy Across The Globe. Aired 4-5p ET
Aired March 07, 2025 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[16:00:00]
SCOTT BESSENT, U.S. TREASURY SECRETARY: And we are going to put a lot of thought into the stable coin regime and as President Trump has directed, we
are going to keep the U.S. the dominant reserve currency in the world, and we will use stable coins to do that. Thank you.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Thank you, Scott.
Howard?
HOWARD LUTNICK, U.S. COMMERCE SECRETARY: Technology is at the foundation of the Trump presidency. He understands technology. He embraces technology,
and he is going to use technology to drive America forward.
The blockchain and Bitcoin technology are a Key part of That thinking and embracing that and here today shows how much a leader the Trump
administration and our President is.
He understands it. He embraces it. As you said, you're a pioneer in this place and this is where we are going. We are using blockchain. We are using
Bitcoin. We are going to use digital assets to pound forward, and Donald Trump is leading the way. We can't be more proud of you.
RICHARD QUEST, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST, "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS": So that is Howard Lutnick. The U.S. Commerce Secretary. Donald Trump, President Trump
announcing the strategic crypto reserve, which was a reserve made up of 200,000 Bitcoins already held by the U.S. government as a result of
forfeiture of criminal and civil proceedings, and saying that the U.S. government is now going to not only hold more of them, but he makes clear
it won't be taxpayer money buying them, but also others, a stable currency reserve, including Ethereum and various others.
How this is all going to work, we will just get to in a moment or three.
Good evening. A very warm welcome to you this evening.
The other big story we are looking at tonight, any moment now, investigators are going to give us an update on the mysterious death of
Gene Hackman and his wife. The two of them and their dog were found dead and had been dead for some days at their Santa Fe home just over a week
ago.
I do believe that it is starting at the moment. Let's listen in.
ADAN MENDOZA, SANTA FE COUNTY, NEW MEXICO SHERIFF: Good afternoon everybody, I am Sheriff Adan Mendoza, Santa Fe County Sheriff's Office.
With me today is Dr. Heather Jarrell, Chief Medical Investigator for the New Mexico Office of the Medical Investigator; Dr. Erin Phipps, New Mexico
State Public Health Veterinarian, New Mexico Department of Health; and also Chief Brian Moya, Santa Fe City Fire Department.
This investigation started on February 26th with the discovery of Mr. Hackman and Miss Arakawa and their dog at their residence.
I just want to do a short recap and then touch on some new information.
As we know, both individuals tested negative for carbon monoxide. City Fire conducted tests and deemed scene safe for deputies to conduct their
investigation.
The preliminary pacemaker interrogation results were released last week, and I will let Dr. Jarrell touch more specifically on those results.
The gas company of New Mexico, they also did an analysis of the residence, and they found one minor leak in a single burner on the kitchen stove,
which was 0.33 percent of room air, which was pretty minute and insignificant.
Since that time, Zina, the deceased dog has been taken for necropsy at the Veterinary Diagnostic Services and we will be awaiting those results.
Let's speak a little bit in reference to the timeline for Betsy Arakawa. We know from our investigation that on February 9th, 2025, she picked up Zina
from Gruda Veterinary Hospital. There was a procedure that was done with the dog, which may explain why the dog was in a crate at the residence.
Let's move on to February 11th, 2025. Miss Arakawa had an e-mail conversation with her massage therapist at about 11:21 A.M. Moving on into
the afternoon, Miss Arakawa was at the Sprouts Farmers Market between 3:30 and 4:15 P.M. Miss Arakawa was seen on surveillance video at the CVS
Pharmacy in Santa Fe from 4:12 to 4:20 P.M.
She then stopped at a local pet food store at about 4:54 P.M. Her car was seen on surveillance and the remote control clicker that is assigned to
her, and her vehicle was used to enter the subdivision to gain access to the gated community at 5:15 P.M.
[16:05:10]
Numerous e-mails were unopened on her computer on February 11th. There was no additional outgoing communication from her or known activity after
February 11th, 2025.
Cell phone information -- the cell phone information and the cell phone data is pending. We are working with State Police to get the information
from those phones, but our investigation shows that all the last known communication and activity from Miss Arakawa was on February 11th.
I am going to go ahead and turn over the podium to Dr. Jarrell. I would ask that everybody refrain from asking questions until everybody has provided
their statements.
I will step up to the podium and then we will go ahead and field questions from the media.
Thank you.
DR. HEATHER JARRELL, CHIEF MEDICAL INVESTIGATOR FOR THE NEW MEXICO OFFICE OF THE MEDICAL INVESTIGATOR: Good afternoon and thank you for being here.
I'm Dr. Heather Jarrell, the Chief Medical Examiner for New Mexico at the Office of the Medical Investigator. I would like to begin by stating that
it is unprecedented for the Office of the Medical Investigator to make public statements about death investigations. However, the circumstances
surrounding these two deaths require accurate dissemination of important information.
I have also spoken with the Hackman family prior to this conference, who are aware of the autopsy findings and conclusions and are aware of this
conference.
On Thursday, February 27th, I performed an autopsy on Mr. Gene Hackman. Medical Examiner, Dr. Daniel Gallego, at the Office of the Medical
Investigator performed a full autopsy on Miss Betsy Arakawa-Hackman also on Thursday, February 27th.
By report, Miss Arakawa-Hackman's legal name is Betsy Hackman, which is how she will be referred to hereafter.
The cause of death for Miss Betsy Hackman, aged 65 years, is hantavirus pulmonary syndrome. The manner of death is natural. Autopsy examination and
full body postmortem CT demonstrated no findings of trauma internally or externally with microscopic findings consistent with hantavirus pulmonary
syndrome.
Laboratory testing was positive for hantavirus at a clinical lab with required confirmation testing positive at Scientific Laboratories Division,
testing for COVID-19, influenza and other common respiratory viruses was negative. Testing for carbon monoxide was negative. There were no other
significant natural disease findings.
Pills present on scene were thyroid medication, which were being taken as prescribed and is not currently a concern for a contributory cause of
death.
The cause of death for Mr. Gene Hackman, aged 95 years, is hypertensive and atherosclerotic cardiovascular disease with Alzheimer's disease as a
significant contributory factor.
Autopsy examination and a full body postmortem CT examination demonstrated no acute findings of internal or external trauma and showed severe heart
disease, including multiple surgical procedures involving the heart, evidence of prior heart attacks and severe changes of the kidneys due to
chronic high blood pressure.
Examination of the brain showed advanced Alzheimer's disease as well as blood vessel changes in the brain secondary to chronic high blood pressure.
Laboratory testing performed at Scientific Laboratories Division was negative for COVID-19, influenza, and other common respiratory viruses.
Testing for hantavirus was negative. Testing for carbon monoxide was negative. Additionally, there were no autopsy findings concerning for
hantavirus infection.
[16:10:03]
I have been asked when death occurred for these individuals. There is no reliable scientific method to accurately determine the exact time or date
of death.
Mr. Hackman's initial pacemaker data revealed cardiac activity on February 17th, with subsequent pacemaker interrogation demonstrating an abnormal
rhythm of atrial fibrillation on February 18th, which was the last record of heart activity.
Based on this information, it is reasonable to conclude that Mr. Hackman probably died around February 18th.
Based on the circumstances, it is reasonable to conclude that Miss Hackman passed away first, with February 11th being the last time that she was
known to be alive.
Lastly, clinically, hantavirus infection is characterized by flu-like symptoms consisting of fever, muscle aches, cough, sometimes vomiting, and
diarrhea that can progress to shortness of breath and cardiac or heart failure and lung failure. This occurs after a one to eight-week exposure to
excrement from a primarily particular mouse species that carries hantavirus.
The mortality of hantavirus -- excuse me -- the mortality rate of the hantavirus strain in the southwest is about 38 to 50 percent. The
hantavirus strains in the United States are not transmissible from person to person, and so this is an appropriate time to segue to Dr. Erin Phipps,
the State Public Health Veterinarian with the New Mexico Department of Health.
But before I do so, I would like to kindly ask for everyone to please respect the privacy that Mr. Gene hackman Miss Betsy Hackman and their
family and friends deserve.
Thank you.
DR. ERIN PHIPPS, STATE PUBLIC HEALTH VETERINARIAN, NEW MEXICO DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH: Thank you, Dr. Jarrell.
I will now provide additional information about hantaviruses in New Mexico. There are many different types of hantaviruses found worldwide.
These viruses are zoonotic, meaning they are transmitted from animals to humans. Hantaviruses are carried by rodents.
The hantavirus found in New Mexico, the Sin Nombre virus is found throughout the state primarily in deer mice, but in other rodents as well.
Hantavirus pulmonary syndrome is a rare disease caused by hantaviruses, but a small number of human infections are found every year in New Mexico.
Over the past five years, New Mexico has confirmed between one and seven hantavirus infections in humans each year. Through the end of 2024, we have
identified 136 infections over the past 50 years in New Mexico residents, five of these in Santa Fe County.
This is a serious disease, 42 percent of these infections here in New Mexico were fatal. Most transmission occurs around the patient's residence
or workplace, and the New Mexico Department of Health typically conducts an environmental investigation at the residence of all hantavirus cases in our
jurisdiction. This can help identify specific areas that may pose higher risk, providing insight into where transmission may have occurred and how
to prevent future infections.
On March 5th, the New Mexico Department of Health staff conducted a risk assessment of the property, including the main residence as well as other
structures on the property. This was critically important to address concerns about health risks to first responders, as well as to inform any
prevention measures needed to protect the family and other individuals entering the property in the future.
We assessed the risk of exposure in the primary residence as low, similar to other well-maintained houses in New Mexico. We did identify signs of
rodent entry in other structures on the property and provided information and resources about reducing the risk of hantavirus transmission related to
those areas.
Hantavirus can be transmitted to people through rodent urine, droppings, or saliva, so it is important to take special steps when cleaning up after
rodents.
Avoiding contact with or breathing in aerosolized rodent urine or feces, especially in a poorly ventilated area is key. Detailed guidance can be
found on the New Mexico Department of Health and the CDC websites, but I will provide a very brief summary now.
[16:15:10]
It is important to use gloves and a well-fitting N95 mask when around or cleaning rodent infested areas, and to open any windows or doors for at
least 30 minutes beforehand to increase ventilation.
Spray the area thoroughly with a 10 percent bleach solution or a commercial disinfectant. Let it sit for five minutes.
Next, clean the area with paper towels, then throw them away in a covered garbage can that is regularly emptied. Before removing gloves, wash your
gloved hands with soap and water or with a disinfectant, and then, after removing gloves, wash your hands again with soap and water.
It is important to never sweep up or vacuum mouse droppings, since this can spread particles up into the air. Since hantavirus is found throughout New
Mexico, awareness of these risks and how to reduce them is important for all New Mexicans.
The New Mexico Department of Health extends our deepest condolences to the families and friends during this difficult time. Thank you.
MENDOZA: Thank you. I think that will conclude the statements for today. We will go ahead and take questions. I ask that there be one question per
agency and please state who you're directing the question to as there are several individuals here at this conference. Sir?
REPORTER: Sheriff, could you just clarify the timeline here. Does this mean Gene Hackman was likely home with his deceased wife for a week before he
passed away himself?
MENDOZA: Yes. I would assume that that is the case.
REPORTER: Do you think given his Alzheimer's status that Mr. Hackman was able to live on his own and survive for those seven days?
MENDOZA: I think that's more a question, maybe for Dr. Jarrell.
JARRELL: Just for -- just to repeat so that everyone could hear, the question was, do we believe that Mr. Hackman was able to live on his own
and survive? The answer to that question is that Mr. Hackman showed evidence of advanced Alzheimer's disease. I am not aware of what his normal
daily functioning capability was.
He was in a very poor state of health. He had significant heart disease, and I think ultimately that is what resulted in his death.
I did -- I was able to look at fluid to determine if he was dehydrated, and I did not see evidence of dehydration. I did see evidence of very poor
kidney function, and I think he died as a result of his heart disease and with Alzheimer's being that contributing factor.
REPORTER: What about starvation?
JARRELL: The question was, what about starvation?
So there was no food in his stomach, which means he had not eaten recently, but he had also no evidence of dehydration.
REPORTER: So, based on your understanding of the progression of the Alzheimer's, do you believe that he was possibly not aware that his wife
had died or didn't know what to do in that situation?
JARRELL It is difficult to answer. The question was, was he aware that Miss Hackman had died? And I think that question is difficult to answer, but I
can tell you that he was in an advanced state of Alzheimer's and it is quite possible that he was not aware that she was deceased.
REPORTER: This is for the Sheriff.
Considering the circumstances under which. Mr. Hackman was found in the mud room with his walking cane and sunglasses by him. Do you think there is a
possibility that he was trying to get help for his wife?
MENDOZA: That's hard, too. That's hard to answer. Again, it is hard to get into the frame of mind of what was happening at the time and I don't know
if we will ever have the answer to that question of whether he was going to go for help or he wasn't. Sir.
REPORTER: Sheriff, are there any other big questions that you're trying to answer? I mean, does this answer the biggest questions you had about their
death in this case? Is there anything else that you're really seeking?
MENDOZA: Yes, so the question is, is there any other big questions that are left? You know, I think a lot of questions were answered here today. I
think there was, you know, Dr. Jarrell went over the cause of death, and I think a lot of those questions are answered.
I think the timeline that we've been given as far as the pacemaker results and the history and evidence that we found as far as the timeline of Miss
Arakawa, I think a lot of the questions have been answered.
We are waiting on the cell phones, but I would -- it is very unlikely that the cell phones are going to show anything else. Another question.
REPORTER: Sheriff, are there any signs of -- what have you learned about Mr. Hackman's communication after February 11th? Did he talk to any friends
of his who had spoken with him during that week-long period, or do you know anything about what he was doing?
MENDOZA: So the question is, is whether there was any communication from Mr. Hackman or activity, and no, at this point, no, I don't know if he used
cell phones or technology or e-mails. There is no indication of that.
So right now there is no activity from Mr. Hackman.
[16:20:28]
REPORTER: Sheriff, do you know if his pacemaker was connected to some sort of monitoring service? If anyone tipped off that something was wrong?
JARRELL: The question was, was his pacemaker connected to a monitoring service? And the answer to that is that the physician -- his physician, one
of his physicians had contacted me and told me that they could see the data from the 17th, but that to really get the most information from that would
come from the interrogation of the pacemaker, and that is as much as I can answer, not being a cardiologist.
REPORTER: They didn't say whether or not they were monitoring or was his pacemaker equipped to send back data in that time so that someone can say,
hey, something is not right.
JARRELL: I can't answer that question. I am sorry.
REPORTER: Question for you, Doctor Jarrell.
MENDOZA: Sir.
REPORTER: Sheriff, was there any data that came from the bodycam from the house?
MENDOZA: I'm sorry. Was --
REPORTER: Was there any footage or anything that you can see from, like, bodycam footage from the house? Any --
MENDOZA: Are you talking about the body cams that the investigator or the responding personnel were wearing?
REPORTER: Is there any video? Is there any video?
MENDOZA: No. So there -- so there was no outside surveillance or interior surveillance that we are aware of in the residence. So there was nothing to
show the activity inside or outside the residence, and not at this time, no.
REPORTER: Dr. Jarrell, you mentioned that one of the symptoms of hantavirus is shortness of breath. We learned before that Betsy Hackman was laying on
the floor when she was found. What kind of medical episode would she have had to cause her to fall and then not be able to ask for help?
JARRELL: The question was regarding shortness of breath with hantavirus, and what kind of medical episode would we expect from somebody found on the
floor.
And I think to be able to answer that question fairly I can go back to hantavirus infection, which initiates with what is called a prodromal
phase. That's initially flu-like symptoms, where a person has fever and muscle aches. They don't feel well, after, of course, being exposed to
rodent excrement.
And that phase can last roughly three to six days, and then they can transition to that pulmonary phase where they have fluid in their lungs and
around their lungs. And at that point, a person can die very quickly within 24 to 48 hours, roughly speaking without medical treatment.
It is not uncommon to find someone down on the floor as part of a terminal collapse, so to speak. And that may very well have been what happened to
Miss Hackman.
REPORTER: So, you're estimating her time of death on the 11th, or is it possible that she collapsed and was alive for a couple of days?
JARRELL: It is hard to say. I don't think she was on the floor alive for a couple of days. I think that she went through that time period, and I don't
know when she began to feel ill and those are just things that I don't know that I am ever going to have the answers to.
But I think going back to that initial time period, roughly three to six days of feeling ill and then succumbing pretty quickly after fluid begins
to build up in the lungs.
REPORTER: Given the dog was crated, is it fair to assume that the dog died from dehydration or starvation?
PHIPPS: I don't think we know the answer to that. However, given the timelines presented, it is a possibility.
REPORTER: Is it possible the dog had the hantavirus?
PHIPPS: Dogs do not get sick from hantavirus.
MENDOZA: Sir.
REPORTER: You mentioned that Betsy Hackman went to a pharmacy. Was she at the pharmacy -- medications?
MENDOZA: The question was if we knew on Betsy's visit to the pharmacy if there was some medication or if she consulted with a pharmacist. We don't
have that information, and I am not sure that we can get that information due to HIPAA laws.
But we don't have that information right now.
Sir?
REPORTER: Why did it take that long (INAUDIBLE).
[16:25:10]
MENDOZA: At this point, there is no indication that there was a caretaker at the home.
REPORTER: Sheriff, with the footage that you saw of that scene on February 11th, was there any indication that she was feeling shortness of breath or
having trouble moving around while she was running those errands.
MENDOZA: You know, we can analyze the video a little more, but it is going to be hard to tell. She was walking around, she was shopping. She was
visiting stores. But my detectives didn't indicate that there was any problem with her or struggle of her getting around, and I believe she had a
mask on also, so I will have to confirm that.
But yes, there wasn't any indication of that. Sasha?
REPORTER: Sheriff, I just would like to ask Chief Moya, or I don't know who could better answer it, but when was the last time you guys dealt with the
hantavirus case or responded to one?
BRIAN MOYA, CHIEF, SANTA FE CITY FIRE DEPARTMENT: Yes. The question was, last time the City of Santa Fe or the county dealt with a hantavirus case,
I think we are going to have to look into that. I will get back to you.
I would have to do some data before we pull that.
REPORTER: Have you had any communication with the CDC? Is there a concern about a bigger public health issue here when it comes to hantavirus?
PHIPPS: The CDC is aware of this case. Hantavirus is a notifiable condition nationally. All hantavirus cases are notified to them.
This is not an unusual case. We get cases every year, unfortunately. So we are not seeing any indications of any abnormal or unusual patterns.
REPORTER: Dr. Jarrell --
MENDOZA: We will go ahead and take two more questions, and then we will wrap this up. Is there anybody that hasn't asked a question yet? Sir.
REPORTER: Do we know if Betsy communicated with anyone down in (INAUDIBLE)?
MENDOZA: Again, we are going through some of the communications, and I think the cell phones may have some indications of that prior to the 11th,
but as of as of this moment, I don't have any information that she was indicating that she was feeling ill during any communication. One more
question.
REPORTER: Since there is no sense that this is criminal in nature, are you closing this investigation? Are you still going to be releasing body camera
video footage from the deputies that entered the house? What happens next?
MENDOZA: So we will deal with IPRA requests as necessary. If there is body camera or any request for public information, we will be releasing that
because of the law.
But yes, we consider this an open investigation until we close the loopholes of the cell phones, until we finish out the necropsy results of
the canine and other loose ends that we need to tie up. But you know, I think we are pretty close to the timeline and with the information that Dr.
Jarrell provided.
REPORTER: One question on the heart disease, is it fair to describe this as a heart attack, or is it not? Is that not an accurate term for the heart
disease of --?
JARRELL: The question was, is it fair to conclude that Mr. Hackman died from a heart attack? And the answer to that is that is a little bit
difficult to say. I saw no microscopic evidence of a recent heart attack. However, those changes can also take some time to develop, several hours to
develop so that I can see it under the microscope.
He could have had an abnormal heart rhythm. We already know that he was in atrial fibrillation on the 18th, and that that could have evolved into a
more terminal heart rhythm.
REPORTER: Did he have heart failure? Is there no way to describe it simply using that terminology.
JARRELL: The question was, did Mr. hackman have heart failure? Oftentimes, we see fluid around the lungs in heart failure and congestion of the liver.
I did not see that in his case. But he had very poor heart or very extensive heart disease. And so would -- he would have been predisposed to
abnormal heart rhythms, and hence he had a pacemaker as well.
MENDOZA: Thank you everybody. That will conclude the press conference for today. Thank you everybody.
QUEST: Well, a wealth of information, all of its sad concerning Gene Hackman, the late Gene Hackman and his wife, Betsy Hackman.
The authorities are giving us essentially the details of what happened, even though last bits have to be confirmed. But essentially, Betsy Hackman
was suffering from something called hantavirus, which is a disease or virus picked up from rodent urine or droppings. It is apparent that she died of a
pulmonary failure around February the 11th, in the afternoon, it is believed.
And Gene Hackman continued to live. He had heart -- serious heart conditions whether we would call it a heart attack, heart failure, but he
continued to live until February until much later, for another week or so and then he then passed away.
He also suffered from advanced Alzheimer's, which explains why he wouldn't have called for help once his wife had clearly passed away. Many details.
It is all just sad.
[16:30:44]
Steve Moore is with me. The retired FBI Supervisory Special Agent and CNN Law Enforcement Contributor. And I have to say, Steve, that was -- I've sat
through a good few of those, that was a model of how it should be done, clear, concise.
The medical examiner left us with no doubt as to what she was saying. What did you take away from it?
STEVE MOORE, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT CONTRIBUTOR: I agree with everything you said. I was astounded at how quickly they gave out significant, conclusive
information that gave us a picture that we could -- that we could count on as being accurate, and they did it. They -- there was really no questions
left to ask at the end of this conference. And I think you see the difference between a criminal press conference and a civil non-criminal,
press conference.
WALLACE: Veronica Miracle is in Santa Fe, New Mexico. She's with me as well. You are listening carefully there. Tell me what you take away from
it.
VERONICA MIRACLE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes. Well, it's certainly very interesting to see this medical mystery really solved. They answered a lot
of the questions that people had in terms of timeline as best as they could. They let us know that Betsy Arakawa like -- Betsy Arakawa-Hackman
rather, her legal name, likely died days before Gene Hackman. They pointed to his advanced state of Alzheimer's, heart disease and some of the
different issues that he had just in terms of his health being 95 and aging.
And I also asked, you know, is it possible that he was in the home and wasn't aware that his wife had died. They said it's not clear, but he did
have an advanced dates of Alzheimer's, so it is highly possible. So that was the biggest takeaway in terms of what's coming next, they said that --
oh, sorry. Go ahead, Richard.
QUEST: Yes, I just want to jump in. I think many of us will find it both fascinating and disturbing that the Hackmans had no domestic assistance,
certainly because Mr. Hackman, we now know had advanced Alzheimer's, so there was nobody -- even just a maid to dust or gardeners who would check
up on them. This is somewhat, I think one would have thought they would have had domestic staff.
MIRACLE: Yes, it is very sad. The way that family and friends have described over the past week is that Betsy was his caretaker and she was
there by his side, helping him through his health. She was 30 years younger than him, and so when she got sick, she got the hantavirus, according to
the medical examiner and she died. There was no one to care for him.
QUEST: We talk about this in detail. What do we make of it from a law enforcement point of view? What was Steve Moore -- what do you make of it
in terms of how they've handled it?
MOORE: Well, Richard, what they did is go in first of all to make sure it wasn't a criminal case and they did that very well. They proceeded as if it
was going to be something later prosecuted. But the evidence didn't lead them that direction. So, they should be very proud of following the
evidence where it goes. And I think they did a fabulous job. But like you said earlier, this is just an incredibly sad story.
As somebody who's dealing with Alzheimer's in my family right now, I cannot imagine that confusion and the inability for self-care that Mr. Hackman
went through.
QUEST: Finally, I think to you too, Veronica, I mean, well, either of you, this was preventable. In a sense, we heard 38 to 50 percent of Hantavirus
victims, that's the sort of the mortality rate on it. So, it's highly possible that this would have been preventable. She didn't know she had it,
Veronica. We don't know that she knew whether she had it or not, and she -- and she suddenly has an urgent attack and falls over.
[16:35:01]
MIRACLE: Right. Yes, absolutely heartbreaking. The way that they described the Hantavirus here is that it's very rare, and they don't even remember
the last time they had a case here in Santa Fe County.
QUEST: Dave, anything on to add?
MOORE: Yes. I just -- I think part of this is the fact of Mr. Hackman celebrity may have been an issue here. The wife is probably very protective
of his image, of what people think of him, and probably didn't want to see him in the public. And so, when she got sick, I'm sure her thought was, if
I'm not here, who's going to keep him out of the camera? And so, I think possibly that's a big issue.
QUEST: To both of you. Thank you. I'm grateful for your time tonight to talk about it. Sad all round, whichever way one looks at it.
It is a Friday. QUEST MEANS BUSINESS. We'll turn to our business agenda in just a moment. I've been speaking to the head of the World Trade
Organization and the former German Chancellor Angela Merkel. We were all in Geneva earlier today and we were talking about Donald Trump's second term
where the -- where the Secretary General told me, cooperation is the key.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NGOZI OKONJO-IWEALA, DIRECTOR-GENERAL, WORLD TRADE ORGANIZATION: I think we need to listen to the United States and listen to what their concerns are
and say how can we also help them deal with their concerns?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
QUEST: The head of the World Trade Organization is trying to build a bridge to Donald Trump. Ngozi Okonjo-Iweala says the world must listen to
America's concerns about trade and cooperate with the United States to fix them. She says everybody needs to relax when it comes to tariffs. Now you
remember back in January she came up with this comment.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[16:40:02]
OKONJO-IWEALA: I say, Richard, we should all chill. Can we chill? I think we shouldn't get over excited about the issue of tariffs. Let's wait and
see what actually is done. Right now, there's a lot of speculation on what might be done. It hasn't been done yet.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
QUEST: Just chill. You'll hear me how I put that to her in just a moment. I was joined by Ngozi and the former German Chancellor, Angela Merkel at the
World Trade Organization in Geneva, and they gave me their perspectives on Donald Trump's second term, specifically this idea that it's time to
recognize America's concerns on trade.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OKONJO-IWEALA: I think we need to listen to the United States and listen to what their concerns are, and say, how can we also help them deal with their
concerns? Listen and say, OK, if you -- if this doesn't work for you anymore, fair enough. But how do we work together with you to try and
change this? That's what we would like. And when we model a cooperative approach to the U.S. changing its tariffs, maybe increasing it somewhat to
it gives better results for the U.S. and for the world than an approach that is tit for tat.
QUEST: You know, when I was planning this, I said, I'll bet she doesn't want me to remind her of what she said to me in Davos when she said chill
on the question of trade and tariffs. Chill. So, I wasn't going to until I met her in her office. And then what did you say to me?
OKONJO-IWEALA: I said, I have not -- I will not retract that at all. I still believe that taking a deep breath and chilling in the present
atmosphere still applies.
QUEST: But how can you chill when on a Tuesday, the tariffs are announced against your country? On the Wednesday, there's a lot of fuss. On the
Thursday, they are retracted, and now we've got 30 days before they might be back again, and you have to either plan an economy or run a company.
OKONJO-IWEALA: You're making my point. You're precisely making my point, because I thank you for the Tuesday, it's one thing on a Wednesday is
another, and then on a Thursday is wait, then you don't need to overreact.
QUEST: But when do you react?
OKONJO-IWEALA: When the when the policy is actually implemented and sticks.
QUEST: We'll never know that until it happens, and arguably, it could be too late.
OKONJO-IWEALA: You've seen Mexico and Canada undertaking a dialog with the United States, and that actually resulting in the pause, right? So, you
don't know where you go from that. So, I still maintain, take a deep breath, dialog.
QUEST: Chancellor, with your knowledge of having -- and I accept that you are not in office now, but you have perspective, deep perspective, having
gone through. Firstly, are you surprised at how different this second term from the president is compared to the first?
ANGELA MERKEL, FORMER GERMAN CHANCELLOR (through translator): Diplomacy has always been something that was not projected on to the open market. And if
we are diplomats, it's a whole profession. If we want to keep this profession, then I think we need to be distinguished from a radio reporter. Journalists can always
express their opinion and say it in the public when something happens, but the task of a politician and from an official is quite different.
QUEST: Do you support measures now being taken by Europeans, including the next government of Germany to increase dramatically defense spending and
defense strategy?
MERKEL (through translator): Yes, absolutely. Even in my time in office, the decisions of Wales at the -- at the annexation of Crimea by Russia, we
committed ourselves to increasing the expenditure to two percent over the next 10 years. At the time this happened slowly and if I may characterize
something in my period in offices not being sufficient, then it was this. There was a deterrent component to this and the diplomacy went hand in hand
with this and today, I think this is still valid.
So, from a European perspective, I would certainly not slam the door and say we don't need the U.S. anymore. Obviously, this would be overestimating
ourselves, but the fact that the Europeans need to do more. Yes, I think this is both necessary and right.
[16:45:03]
QUEST: Do you believe that the European institutions and the decision- making mechanisms are fit for purpose when dealing with something like we're dealing at the moment, where you can have a decision on the other
side of the Atlantic. The old Henry Kissinger line, as you're well, familiar when I want to speak to Europe who do I call?
MERKEL (through translator): Well, yes. Kissinger always found someone who could call Europe for him. A democracy is much more than just a president.
It's all part of the essence of a democracy. The fact that in Europe, things go a bit more slowly, that I don't contend that's part of it. But
the fact is, when Europe is faced with a huge challenge, it has always managed to decide the right thing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
QUEST: Angela Merkel and the head of the World Trade Organization. Donald Trump is threatening new sanctions on Russia, talking about the President's
unpredictable foreign policy and whether or not we should -- as Ngozi would say, just chill. QUEST MEANS BUSINESS.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
QUEST: Donald Trump is threatening new sanctions on Russia. He says it's in a response to Russia's actions on the battleground, warning of large-scale
sanctions on banking and other areas until a ceasefire and stalemate or settlement I think everyone are reached. Now, it's all part of a pattern of
unpredictable, unconventional and foreign policy moves. So, for example, you take Ukraine to start with and he's cut off support for Ukraine,
speaking directly to Vladimir Putin without consulting Europe but then seemingly turning on Putin and saying, I expect him to also have a
ceasefire like I expect the others.
His hostage envoy has been in touch with Hamas, although the United States has long refused to negotiate with terrorists and all this has been done
without any discussion, in a sense, on what the rights and wrongs of it are.
[16:50:01]
And as for the world's poorest nations, well, when you look at what Washington's done, dismantling USAID, the agency that manages billions in
foreign assistance without putting in place the safety net in a sense. All of this is Grist to the mill for Gideon Rachman, the Chief Foreign Affairs
guy at The Financial Time. Good to see you, sir.
GIDEON RACHMAN, CHIEF FOREIGN AFFAIRS COMMENTATOR, FINANCIAL TIMES: Nice to see you, Richard.
QUEST: God to see you. Just Putin, Zelensky, Trump. Donald Trump doesn't really care, in a sense, he just wants the fighting to stop.
RAGMAN: Yes. And I think, you know, he keeps saying and the people around him keep saying he's the master the deal. And I think he may be
overestimating his ability to just say, OK, I'm going to sort this out and I'm going to have a peace deal. And maybe what we're hearing today, this
threat of sanctions against Russia reflects his kind of dawning realization that actually maybe you need to put some pressure on the Russians as well
or it could simply be a degree of embarrassment that no sooner does he lift or stop sharing intelligence with Ukrainians rather than the Russians
saying, well, that's great. That's a step towards peace.
They actually step-up sort of rather brutal attacks on Ukraine. So, I'm afraid the impression is that I don't think there is a master plan there. I
think Trump is kind of slightly flame.
QUEST: He just wants to -- diversion to stop.
RACHMAN: Yes. And I think he wants to be able to say, you know, I brought peace to this area.
QUEST: This reversal of policy on Ukraine, this idea of the reliability of the U.S. as an ally, the rubric of choice for Europeans is, yes, it's still
a reliable ally but we need to be ready in case it's not.
RACHMAN: Yes. They may say that in public, I think they certainly don't believe that in private.
QUEST: But they really are shocked.
RACHMAN: Yes, totally. I mean, there's so many shocking moments, it's difficult to pick out, you know, one or two, but I think say over the last
week, the pictures out of the Oval Office where Trump famously said, this will make great television. Well, it sure did. You know, people saw him
berating somebody who is regarded as a bit of a hero in Europe and were pretty appalled. And it's quite interesting, even Conservative M.P.s here
in the UK were very castigating.
But and one other thing, Richard, I think the vote at the U.N. where the U.S. votes with Russia and North Korea and against Ukraine and its European
allies, that will take a lot, you know, that will be a big moment.
QUEST: So, if Humpty Dumpty has fallen off the wall and is in pieces, I suppose the Americans have always believed, well, when we're ready to kiss
and make up, they'll come back because we're the United States and we're the big, you know, we don't need to worry. They'll come back to us and love
us anyway.
RACHMAN: Yes.
QUEST: You don't think that's the case anymore?
RACHMAN: No, I mean, I think that the Europeans are aware that because they've been dependent on America for literally eight years, a sudden
divorce is really bad news for them, but they are certainly beginning to believe that they need to be autonomous and to build up as fast as they
can. Because I don't think that they think that even if America does tomorrow and say, oh, it's great kiss and make up, they don't believe
they're reliable in the long run.
QUEST: So, who leads for Europe?
RACHMAN: I think it I have to be Germany, frankly. And I think that the striking thing --
QUEST: Macron.
RACHMAN: Macron is -- well, yes, Macron actually a bit because he's in office, Mertz, you know, won't be chancellor until March. But I think
Germany has the economy. It has the scope to borrow. Their debt to GDP is only 60 percent. Britain, France, are heavily indebted. So, it's when the
Germans really get moving that I think things start moving.
QUEST: Do the Europeans and the Brits realize, listen, we're going to have to come to some sort of post-Brexit arrangement beyond Windsor.
RACHMAN: Totally.
QUEST: I mean, you know, everything that they promised that they weren't going to do, cherry picking, blah, blah, blah, the rules of change. We need
Britain back closer to us, and if that means we have to hold our nose on a few things --
(CROSSTALK)
RACHMAN: A hundred percent, I think. You know, I was just in Paris yesterday and they were saying that Franco-British relations have been, you
know, their best for a decade now. And it's because of this shared sense that we really need to get our act together because we have a threat from
Russia, but also, in some senses, a threat from the U.S.
QUEST: If you are still at university and the question on the paper was whether NATO discuss. What would you answer?
RACHMAN: Pretty moribund. I mean, I know my friends at NATO would be very annoyed if you said that, but I think that the problem is that NATO, it may
continue to exist in paper, but it relies on people believing that if an attack on one really is an attack on all and I don't think anybody in
Europe could really be confident that if Russia attacked the Baltic states that America would respond.
QUEST: Quick fire round. It's Friday. Does Trump get Greenland?
RACHMAN: No.
QUEST: How much damage does he do before he get -- he realizes it?
RACHMAN: I think he done a lot of damage already. I mean, I think that the, you know, another thing that's really changed attitudes is seeing him
threaten allies Denmark and also Canada. You know, another fellow member of NATO.
QUEST: How does the Canada thing play out?
RACHMAN: Well, I think that it sounds like Trump's going to escalate with Canada. So, we'll see.
QUEST: Is that because Trudeau played his hand worse than Sheinbaum?
[16:55:07]
RACHMAN: Well, it depends what Trudeau's goal is. I think that the Canadians believe that America really is threatening them now and that they
have to stand up. And in terms of domestic politics, Trudeau has played a blind. I mean, the liberals were 25 points behind the conservatives,
they're now five points ahead.
QUEST: Have a good weekend, sir. Did you ever think we'd be talking about whether or not?
RACHMAN: No. That's absolutely --
(CROSSTALK)
QUEST: Thank you for coming --
(CROSSTALK)
RACHMAN: Yes. It's a pleasure.
QUEST: Very much appreciated.
Now this just into more fallout from the Justice Department's attempt to clear New York Mayor Eric Adams of criminal prosecution. We now believe
that the DOJ is put on leave two prosecutors who worked on the case. It's a sign of how the Justice Department is seeking to rein in the prosecutors at
the attorney office in the District of New York. Eight prosecutors have already resigned in protest after being told to drop the case. Adams has
pleaded not guilty.
We'll take a profitable moment after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
QUEST: Tonight's profitable moment. I was deeply honored to be asked to go to Geneva and chair the presidential lecture that was being given by -- to
moderate, the -- by Angela Merkel. And you saw some of it on our program tonight. What was particularly interesting I found in our discussion was
when the Director General of the World Trade Organization, Ngozi Okonjo- Iweala said that we had to listen to what the American legitimate concerns on trade are and find ways to accommodate them.
This is the olive branch that we have been looking for. This is the WTO and the Director General saying that there are valid concerns about the
fairness of the trading system vis-a-vis, the United States. In other words, to some extent, Donald Trump is right. We have been eating the
American lunch, and they've been paying for it. Of course, it's a different matter between being right and how you address the problem.
And again, I was surprised when Ngozi said she stood by her just chill comment. She'd been around a good few years in terms of looking at politics
and economics and geopolitics, and so I take what she says very seriously. So maybe she's right. We do have to look at the American situation and say
they have been treated unfairly, and whilst all this noise continues of tariffs, well, you know, I'll be doing this weekend, just chill.
[17:00:06]
And that's QUEST MEANS BUSINESS for this Friday night. I'm Richard Quest in London. Whatever you're up to in the hours ahead, I hope it's profitable.
It's my birthday on Sunday. I'll be 61.
END
