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Quest Means Business
Trump Floats Tariff Exemption For Car Companies; Xi Visits Vietnam As He Begins Tour Of Southeast Asia; Zuckerberg Takes The Stand At Meta Antitrust Trial; Donald Trump Wants To Deport "Homegrown Criminals" To El Salvador; Moscow Ramps Up Attacks On Ukraine Amid Talks With U.S.; CEO James Daunt On How Barnes & Nobles Bounced Back. Aired 4-5p ET
Aired April 14, 2025 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[16:00:12]
RICHARD QUEST, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST, "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS": The closing bell is ringing on Wall Street, start of a new week and the market is
higher, it has been throughout the course of the session. We are off the best of the day, and the gavel, sir, hit the gavel. Oh, no. That's enough
gavel. Oh well, there we go. Yes, that's about we are going to get. That's as good as anything as well on a Monday.
Those are the markets, all are up, I will show you the detailed numbers in a little while. These are the main events.
Tariffs on tariffs off. The mixed White House messages that's making planning impossible for any business.
How about Mark Zuckerberg taking the stand on the first day of the Meta antitrust trial.
And young people still have an appreciation for the classics. The Barnes & Noble CEO, I may be not a young person, but I am reading the classics. The
Barnes & Noble CEO on why bookstores are making a comeback.
Tonight, live from New York on Monday, April the 14th. I am Richard Quest, and I mean business.
Good evening.
We begin a new week with more confusion and chaos on the old problem of tariffs. U.S. President Donald Trump has created more confusion over the
last few days in his administration.
The President now says he is considering a short-term exemption for automakers. You'll recall, he placed a 25 percent tariff on cars shipped to
the United States, but now says an exemption would give companies time to prepare.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: I am looking at something to help some of the car companies with switching to parts that
were made in Canada, Mexico and other places, and they need a little bit of time because they are going to make them here, but they need a little bit
of time. So I am thinking about things like that.
REPORTER: What about any Apple products or other cell phones?
TRUMP: Look, I am a very flexible person. I don't change my mind, but I am flexible, and you have to be. You just can't have a wall and you'll only go
-- no, sometimes you have to go around it, under it or above it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
QUEST: So you want to see the example of what we are talking about. He says he doesn't change his mind, but he is flexible. Well, the flexibility and
speed with which his administration has changed direction on tariffs on China is dizzying.
So, let's start off as we begin. We started off on Friday morning with tariffs at 145 percent on imports, and then all of a sudden, we had
exemptions that were announced when the U.S. Customs changed course. They said oh, hang on a second. No, tariffs are not going to be that. We are
going to have -- there will be no tariffs on electronics, there will be an exemption for electronics.
But that only lasted so long. We had the futures rallying on the back of that. You can see that in the middle. And then came Sunday morning and the
shows, and you had the Commerce Secretary Howard Lutnick muddying the waters by saying the exemptions were only temporary.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HOWARD LUTNICK, U.S. COMMERCE SECRETARY: These are included in the semiconductor tariffs that are coming and the pharmaceuticals are coming.
Those two areas are coming in the next month or two. So this is not like a permanent sort of exemption. He is just clarifying that these are not
available to be negotiated away by countries.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
QUEST: "Not available to be negotiated by countries," so then there is even more confusion when the Deputy Chief-of-Staff Stephen Miller, piled on by
saying there are no exemptions at all. And then President Trump, that nail was finally put in the coffin with this announcement. He said, let me just
highlight it: Nobody is getting off the hook.
Nobody is getting off the hook, especially not China.
Clare Duffy is with me. Look at that and you can make sense of it all. Do you -- as I understand it, the situation is electronics from China have the
base 20 percent, which is the enhanced rate, not the 145 rate.
CLARE DUFFY, CNN BUSINESS WRITER: Yes, Richard, it really is almost like we have lost the plot here if there ever was one on what the point of these
tariffs were, if these tariffs really were meant to be such a good way of bringing manufacturing to the United States, why all of these reversals and
some products are exempt and others are not, but what it seems like where things stand at the moment is that these electronics, computers,
smartphones imported from China are indeed subject to that 20 percent base tariff rate and are exempt from the higher 145 percent tariff rate on goods
imported from China.
[16:05:13]
However, as you hear Howard Lutnick saying there, they will be wrapped in with the semiconductor tariffs that he said are expected to come in
probably a month or two. But I just have to think, if you are a tech company and say you took the Trump administration at its word from the
beginning and said, we need to reallocate costs, we need to speed up new production of manufacturing in the United States, and then a few days
later, do you say, oh, wait a second, there is an exemption. We don't have to worry about that. And then a day later, do you start investing again?
I don't think that you do any of this because it really is hard to know what to believe.
QUEST: No, you wouldn't, no. You wouldn't do any of it.
Let's look at the Dow 30, because I want to show you, I believe that the top performing stock in the 30 today is there, well, it was it was Apple
earlier. It has come off its tops a bit.
Now, the fact that Apple is only up what -- two-and-a-quarter or something after all the losses, that means that it is still hit by this 20 percent.
It is going to get semiconductors. It can't go anywhere else because there is the 10 percent thing, so tech is still getting clobbered, and that's of
course you're seeing again with Amazon in the 30 as well, which is actually down.
DUFFY: Yes, I think what you're seeing there, especially with Apple being up, is this tech investors are looking positively on the fact that Trump
seems willing to change his mind, even though he said he isn't on tariffs on goods imported from China realizing that the Big Tech giants really
could be hurt by these tariffs.
Now, Apple will certainly continue to feel the impact of just 20 percent tariffs, and we could see consumers start to feel the impact of that as
well if costs are passed down to consumers. But I think what you're seeing there is investors are feeling good about the fact that maybe Trump is
willing to change his mind and exempt some of these key products.
QUEST: No, no, no. He is not changing his mind.
DUFFY: He is flexible.
QUEST: He said, he is flexible. Please.
When is not changing your mind, changing your mind when it is flexible?
Good to see you, Clare Duffy. I am grateful. Thank you, as always.
Now, President Xi Jinping is positioning Beijing as the stable trading partner in contrast to the United States. President Xi arrived in Vietnam
at the start of a Southeast Asia tour. He is looking to strengthen ties in ASEAN in the wake of the new tariff U.S. policy, and to retaliate, China
has banned the export of certain rare earth minerals to the U.S. -- samarium. terbium and finished products like permanent magnets, which have
got nothing to do with what you put on the fridge.
Ivan Watson reports from Hong Kong.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
IVAN WATSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: From the beginning, the Chinese government has said it does not want a trade war with the U.S.,
but if one is coming, it is prepared to respond. One of the measures it appears to have adopted was announced back on April 4th, which was almost a
lifetime ago in this tariff war. It wasn't a tariff, it was a suspension of the export of seven out of 17 rare earth metals.
So, it turns out, according to the International Energy Agency, that China has a near monopoly on the production and refinement of rare earth metals
and they are not coming to the U.S. right now.
Why is that important? Well, these items, these materials and compounds show up in your phone, in the touch screen, in the microphone, and in the
vibration element here in your phone.
They are also used in things like Defense systems like the F-35 stealth fighter jet, where the Department of Defense says hundreds of pounds of
rare earth metals are used in that. Thousands of pounds of rare earth metals used in U.S. warships and submarines.
So this measure by China creates a challenge for the U.S. to find these types of materials from a small number of other potential suppliers around
the world, and the Chinese government also is not sitting still.
The President, Xi Jinping, arrived in the Vietnamese capital on Monday, and he is on a tour through Southeast Asia. He will also be traveling to
Cambodia and Malaysia. Guess what? All three countries were hit by President Trump's so-called reciprocal tariffs, which he paused. He
announced a temporary suspension.
Those tariffs were to the tune of 46 percent, 49 percent, and 24 percent. In Hanoi, President Xi told his Vietnamese counterpart, "Our two countries
should resolutely safeguard the multilateral trading system, stable global industrial and supply chains, and open a cooperative international
environment." Reports that the two governments could sign up to 40 trade deals. President Xi, clearly trying to portray China as a reliable and
rational trading partner at a time when the U.S. government is determined to blow up the system of international trade.
Ivan Watson, CNN Hong Kong.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
[16:10:14]
Now, one Federal Reserve governor says the economy may slow to a crawl if all of this goes ahead with the full slate of tariffs. Christopher Waller
says they could force the Fed to cut rates more aggressively, even if inflation is above the two percent target. And he says the Fed's outlook
will be a little change if tariffs are limited to an average of around 10 percent. In that case, he said, there could be good news, rate cuts later
this year.
Randall Kroszner is a former Fed Reserve Governor. Randall is with me now.
How difficult is it for the Fed to navigate the policy decisions at the moment?
RANDALL KROSZNER, FORMER FEDERAL RESERVE GOVERNOR: Oh, it is simple, very obvious. No, no challenges at all.
No, of course, this is incredibly challenging because there are so many pivots, so many apparent changes and so many challenges for the private
sector because they're not quite sure how they should be doing their investment, and if they are not sure how they're going to do their
investment, it is particularly tough for the Fed to be figuring what the economy is going to be doing and what interest rates should be.
QUEST: So at what point do you think the Fed does come in to offer some support?
KROSZNER: Well, I think -- so, I think as you were saying, Governor Waller has a very good analysis of the problem. Most likely, the tariffs will be a
temporary boost to inflation because this isn't an ongoing thing, it is something that will go up and you know, may boost inflation temporarily to
you know, substantially above where it is. It will come back down. The Fed will look through that, and then probably they'll provide some support as
the economy slows.
QUEST: You see, that's the point. At the end of the day, tariffs are now at rates -- up to levels we've not seen for more than a century. Therefore,
there will be an economic slowdown effect on it. Are you able to give us an idea of how much that's going to be?
KROSZNER: It is really tough because we don't know the extent of the tariffs, and we don't know the extent of the response. I say, it certainly
will slow things down and this is exactly where the President needs to pivot to say, okay, I am going to be giving tax cuts to incentivize
investment. I am going to be deregulating to incentivize investment to try to offset that.
And so we really need some clarity on how all the pieces fit together.
QUEST: If it is an extension of the tax cuts that we've already had, or just merely more of the same, in your view, does that -- is that
sufficient?
KROSZNER: Well, certainly it is helpful. I mean, my colleagues at University of Chicago have done an analysis to show that the immediate
expensing of investment, which was done under the previous tax freezes time Trump was in office. It was very helpful for stimulating investment, so we
need to do that.
And, you know, perhaps we can do more. Would it be enough? I think it has a lot to do with the uncertainty around the policy announcements and I
certainly can't handicap that very easily.
QUEST: You see, that's the -- we are now in a position where no economic model -- I mean, yes, the big banks and the economists, they've all managed
to put together an economic model of sorts. But since we've not seen this tariffing level since 1908 or 1912, depending on your definition. It is not
exactly a very robust form of science.
KROSZNER: Well, forecasting is never a fully robust form of science, I would have to say. But certainly, this adds another layer because as you
said, we haven't seen these kinds of things in quite a while and it depends not only on the choices that President Trump makes, but also the choices
that others make and how, if and how they retaliate.
QUEST: Right. I spend a lot of weekend reading about the bond market. Yes, I really am that sad, and I am still not fully sure stripping out the
fundamentals of the bond moves last week because of worries about economic growth versus the technicalities of the market caught short coverings
versus just the machinations of the yield curve. I can't work out what was the more dominant move.
KROSZNER: I think you are not the only one. I think many market participants are trying to figure that out. Is this a long term turn away
from the dollar and a turn away from Treasuries? Is this just of a short- term move? Because there is so much tumult in the markets? And I think it is very difficult to assess that right now.
[16:15:00]
Now, fortunately, the yield on the 10-year Treasury has come down a little bit and it is certainly below where it was earlier this year, so it is not
like it is at record levels, but certainly moved up quite a bit over the last week.
QUEST: What do you think that -- I mean because at the moment, the three commodities, in a sense -- bonds, gold and oil, now they are the three that
I would say the cornerstone because they are so interlinked by the dollar and they trade through the dollar and through the U.S. liquidity markets
and if a recession is on the horizon, we are going to see movement in those commodities and in those markets.
KROSZNER: Well we've already seen a substantial move down in oil, suggesting that people think that -- the markets think that there is going
to be less demand for energy. That suggests an economic slowdown. Gold has moved up and down with uncertainties about policy and with uncertainties
about inflation. And then obviously in the bond market is -- you know, has moved up and the interest rates have moved up substantially over the last
week, but as I said, they are not as high as they were just two or three months ago. So, it is not like they're at record levels.
So I don't think this suggests that this is the end of the dollar. Some people have sort of been rending garments over that. I think we are a
little bit early to make that call, because, as I said, interest rates are not at record levels. They are below where they were just a few months ago.
QUEST: I am glad. I am grateful that we had your time today, sir. Thank you very much.
Good to see you, Randall.
KROSZNER: Thank you. Pleasure to be with you.
QUEST: Now, QUEST MEANS BUSINESS, the Meta chief exec, Mark Zuckerberg, was in court today giving testimony. The latest on the U.S. government's
antitrust case against Meta, in a moment. QUEST MEANS BUSINESS.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
QUEST: Hours ago, Mark Zuckerberg was on the stand in the first day of the antitrust trial against Meta that has been brought by the U.S. government.
The FTC is accusing Meta of illegally building a social networking monopoly when it acquired WhatsApp and Instagram. It argues that consumers do not
have reasonable alternatives.
Meta, on the other hand, says there is plenty of competition, that those purchases were approved by regulators when they were made many years ago.
Brian Stelter is with me.
I remember when Meta bought WhatsApp at $17 billion. We all thought they were barking mad, paying anything like that and I am still not sure how
they make money out of WhatsApp, but this case is designed to do what, Brian?
[16:20:13]
BRIAN STELTER, CNN CHIEF MEDIA ANALYST: I will tell you, there is actually a new report about WhatsApp's value through Meta, and it speaks to how
these different apps really complement each other, Richard.
There are a lot of users on Facebook and Instagram who get referred into WhatsApp to have conversations with businesses, and they end up buying
products on WhatsApp through those chats. I did not know that was a huge business for Meta, to be honest, until a recent report, I believe it was by
The Verge saying that's a $10 billion business for Meta.
The point is that these apps work together. They help each other very well and that is partly why the U.S. government is going after Meta in court
right now.
The U.S. government's position, and it has been this for years, is that Meta holds a monopoly by having all of these social networking powerhouses
together under the same roof, that they are producing this anti-competitive environment.
Now, Mark Zuckerberg has been on the stand for a couple of hours. They're just taking a break. He will be back again this afternoon and again
tomorrow because he is the most important witness here.
But this is going to go on for seven or eight weeks, and all of these lawyers have to convince one person, that's the judge. This is not a jury
trial. It is one judge who will make this decision. And then ultimately, if he rules with the government, he will have to decide how to break up Meta.
QUEST: So are we looking -- is that what we are looking at? If, -- I mean, there is a million and one potential options from divesting, from breaking
up, from -- but at the end of the day, because they are all so embedded and integrated, it would be difficult to find relief of a monopoly without
breaking it up.
STELTER: It would be very difficult. Yes, very difficult to do so. I would view an actual breakup as the most extreme outcome of this. There are more
likely outcomes, even if Meta is found liable or guilty in this trial.
You know, there are other ways that Meta might be able to appease the court and the X factor here is President Trump. We don't know if Trump will try
to intervene, but we do know Zuckerberg has been trying desperately to get Trump on his good side.
We know that Trump has been using his power in some of these federal agencies, including the FTC. Remember, Trump fired the two Democrats on the
FTC last month. They say the firing was illegal, but the FTC is the agency bringing this case.
So what we don't know is whether President Trump will actually get involved and make a change that might benefit Meta.
QUEST: I mean, that's the core unknown. In the old days, the old days -- six months ago --
STELTER: Yes.
QUEST: There would have been no question of a U.S. President getting involved. Not until at the end when maybe on a policy point, they would
have said, you know, the administration's view is X, Y, Z, therefore we are going to do this.
But this is something different now. We just have no idea.
STELTER: That's why I bring it up. It is the X factor. We don't know what is going to happen. What we do know is Zuckerberg was at the White House
earlier this month, reportedly pleading his case, lobbying Trump for a resolution to this case.
We know that Trump earlier today actually urged another agency to punish CBS because of a newscast he didn't like. So we know trump is willing and
able to use those kinds of powers in extraordinary ways. But does he actually view Zuckerberg as a friend or an ally? I think that's a very open
question. We have not heard Trump praise Zuckerberg in public the way he has praised Jeff Bezos, for example.
Zuckerberg may still well be on the proverbial enemies list, even though Zuckerberg has donated money and given Facebook a MAGA makeover and shown
up in public at the inauguration, et cetera, et cetera.
Zuckerberg has been trying to curry favor, but it may ultimately not work in this aspect, in this trial. That's one of the pieces I am watching as we
head toward a resolution which could take months in this case -- Richard.
QUEST: And then there will be appeals. Lovely. Thank you.
Brian Stelter, I am very grateful to you. You mentioned -- Brian -- Brian mentioned -- thank you, sir -- Jeff Bezos.
Well, Blue Origin sent a star-studded crew to the very edge of space today.
(VIDEO CLIP PLAYS)
QUEST: Look at that. Look at that. Wow.
Now, among the passengers, Katy Perry; the journalist, Gayle King; and Lauren Sanchez, the fiancee of Jeff Bezos, who, of course, owns the whole
thing.
According to Blue Origin, Sanchez brought the mission together. It marks the first time in more than 60 years, an all-female crew has embarked into
space. We are not including that one Russian crew where there was only one on board, therefore, by definition --
Anyway, when they landed, those on board spoke to us about their experiences.
[16:25:00]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KATY PERRY, SINGER: I think this experience has shown me you never know how much love is inside of you, like how much love you have to give, and how
loved you are until the day you launch.
GAYLE KING, CBS NEWS: I would say that we were -- that we are forever bonded because you can't go through what we went through to look out for
each other, to help each other and not be changed by that.
You know, it really is a true -- people throw the word around, but it really is a true sisterhood.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
QUEST: Miles O'Brien is with me. What do you make of it, Miles?
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN AVIATION ANALYST: I don't know. It is 11 minutes, Richard. Is that really enough to be a band of sisters? I don't know,
maybe.
QUEST: I spent the day trying to think. I mean, let's forget the all-female part of it. I mean, that's -- you know, that is an interesting sideline and
the fact that they were all-star studded, I mean, famous people. I spent most of the day trying to work out who paid for their seats and who didn't,
and probably came to the conclusion that nobody did. It was probably a freebie. I don't know that.
But what is the purpose of all of these, do you think?
O'BRIEN: Well, certainly not to create astronauts or conduct any science. That's not what happened here. This was a -- I've called them before, gold-
plated bungee jumps. That might be a good analogy for it. It was a joyride. And that is what it is, and to call these people "astronauts" would be like
calling you or I the Captain of an Airbus A350 that we flew across the ocean in business class. That doesn't give us that quality -- we might get
the plastic wings afterwards.
But having said all of that, I know I am sounding like a curmudgeon here, it is nice to see more and more people being able to access space;
admittedly beautiful, well connected, deep pocketed people in this case. But maybe that will lead someday to a more popularization of space. The
question is, do people really want to go there?
And you know, are there enough thrill seekers out there?
QUEST: I guess, what I try to understand with this, and the same with the Virgin one when it was there, and the same with obviously all the others, I
tried to understand how these fit into the much greater picture of space as a future, which we know has to happen and isn't this just one piece of that
jigsaw in a sense?
O'BRIEN: It is. It takes a couple of steps to see how this relates to someday, perhaps having an encampment on Mars or the Moon. But the fact is
that all of that is connected to the idea of having easy, relatively inexpensive access to space, and this is part of that picture.
You know, the idea that people talk a lot about is aviation in the 1920s. There was a lot of really rich people who flew at that time, which
ultimately laid the groundwork for the -- you know, the mass access to aviation that we have today.
I don't know that that is a perfect analogy for space, but that is the idea here that as more and more people get access, starting with the rich
people, maybe you and I can go someday, Richard, That's the bottom line.
QUEST: Yes. I am not sure I'd get on that rocket, but I don't know. If somebody else is paying, I suppose I might do -- I might be -- finally, if
we look at the whole Elon Musk, the Mars, NASA, the interrelationship now that exists with space, is the U.S. making progress at the moment?
O'BRIEN: Well, Richard, you know, it is hard to say how this is all going to land, but you can see there are very strong indications that Elon Musk's
view of space travel will hold the day.
Jared Isaacman, who will be soon sworn in as the administrator, is a close associate of his and a customer. What concerns me is things like the NASA
science enterprise, and there are reports out that it is going to be cut by as much as two thirds, two thirds, one third of the budget left, which is
going to mean the cancellation of important programs, the gutting of the Goddard Space Flight Center.
And if you're doing pilot admissions and forsaking the Blue Chip Science Enterprise of NASA, I think we are making a big mistake.
QUEST: We won't know the extent of that mistake until you and I have long gone, but somebody will do it. Good to see you, Miles, as always. Thank you
for putting all of it into perspective. Thank you.
O'BRIEN: Pleasure, Richard.
QUEST: It is QUEST MEANS BUSINESS at the start of a new week and a week indeed. The latest escalation in the deportation push by the
administration, now apparently home grown criminals could -- well not could be sent to El Salvador, the President would like to. And Mr. Trump says he
is open to that idea. He said so when he was hosting President Nayib Bukele from El Salvador, in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:33:26]
QUEST: Hello, I'm Richard Quest, a great deal more QUEST MEANS BUSINESS as you and I continue talking about President Trump who said he'd like to send
homegrown criminals to El Salvador.
And the storybook ending for Barnes & Noble. I'll be talking to the chief executive of America's largest bookstore chain about its remarkable
comeback. Nearly went bust, and now it's thriving. We'll get to that.
After that, we will get to that after the headlines, because this is CNN, and here the news comes first.
Russian missiles have ripped through the city of Sumy. The Ukrainian officials say Russia targeted the busy city center as people gathered for
Palm Sunday church services. It marks the deadliest single day attack on Ukrainian civilians for the last two years, killing at least 34 people,
including children.
A Pennsylvania man has been arrested for allegedly setting fire to the Governor Josh Shapiro's home while he and his family were asleep inside.
The Shapiro family was able to escape the fire and there were no injuries. The 38-year-old suspect is facing arson, attempted murder, terrorism
charges.
Harvard is rejecting the Trump administration's demand for policy changes at the school, and in doing so, putting nearly $9 billion worth of federal
funding at risk.
In a statement, the university's president said, we have informed the administration we will not accept their proposed agreement. The university
will not negotiate over its independence or its constitutional rights.
[16:35:07]
President Trump says he wants to send home grown criminals to El Salvador, and that includes deporting U.S. citizens who are considered violent
criminals. He made the comments during a meeting with the El Salvadorian President Nayib Bukele, adding that the U.S. will send even more people to
El Salvador's CECOT mega prison.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I'd like to go a step further. I mean, I say -- I said it to Pam. I don't know what the laws are.
We always have to obey the laws, but we also have homegrown criminals that push people into subways that hit elderly ladies on the back of the head
with a baseball bat when they're not looking. That are absolute monsters. I'd like to include them in the group of people to get them out of the
country.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
QUEST: It's worth saying before we go any further, that that's simply constitutionally not possible. They then talked about this man, Kilmar
Armando Abrego Garcia, who was wrongly deported to El Salvador, and they both sort of said he won't be returned to the United States.
David Culver joins me from Florida, where he's just been to the mega prison. David, look, they say that he's not going to be returned. We are --
the Salvadorian president could return him if he wanted to, despite the fact he called it preposterous.
DAVID CULVER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I think, Richard, when you look in that Oval Office and who was sitting in there were the most powerful individuals
who could make this happen. It was kind of interesting. It was though they were talking as though the other wasn't in the room, saying, no, that's for
El Salvador to decide. And then for El Salvador to say, well, we can't, as President Nayib Bukele put it, smuggle somebody back into the U.S. who's
not a U.S. citizen.
It does seem that those are the individuals, particularly President Trump and President Bukele, who are known for cutting through red tape, so to
speak, and be able to act precisely and pretty quickly on something like that.
But obviously, they don't want to move forward with that. Certainly the U.S. doesn't want to go that direction.
And interesting, Richard, when we were down in El Salvador last week, a couple of high ranking officials told us that there was incriminating
evidence that they had on Abrego Garcia.
Now, when I press them on what that is, they would not provide me any details. They didn't show any proof, but one of those individuals did say
he's never going to leave here.
And so, it shows you how firm they are about this situation, even though they didn't provide any of the evidence to show his criminal past. They're
certainly certain that he's not going to be leaving CECOT anytime soon.
QUEST: So, what I didn't understand when I heard the president -- the El Salvador president talking about smuggling in, Pam Bondi -- Pam Bondi
specifically said, the U.S. Attorney General, we will, if necessary, send a plane.
Therefore, even though he might have been illegal, the U.S. can clearly give permission for him to come in. So, what nonsense is he talking about
when he says, I'm not going to smuggle somebody in, when the A.G. just said, we'll send a plane.
CULVER: Seem like all the logistics were figured out right in front of him, right there. Yes, you're right. It does seem like it would have been just a
matter of him saying OK.
And not only him saying OK, but he could have turned to his right and standing behind the couch there was his justice and Security Minister,
Gustavo Villatoro. This is a man who oversees CECOT prison, and who could make the decision to say, yes, let him out. But it doesn't seem they want
to go that direction, and there's no movement.
QUEST: So, I've been dying to ask you this question ever since I saw your reporting last week, what is the plan with these people? They've not been
tried, most of them, they've certainly not been convicted. They go -- I know they're having their -- I saw your report. I know there are various
internal trials being done by video, but de facto, it seems like they're just going to be detained without trial, ad infinitum. Is that -- is that
how they see it?
CULVER: Are you speaking specifically, Richard, to the deportees, or the Salvadorans, who have been put into CECOT?
QUEST: Excellent point for clarification, the deportees.
CULVER: That is the big unknown in all of this. Here's what we know about them. OK, they're put in Sector 8. You have to imagine these airplane like
hangars that are just massive, that have a couple of dozen jumbo cells, in each jumbo cell, you can have 80 to 100 people.
So, we know they're in one of those hangars, if you will, Section 8, and they did not let us into that facility.
However, we know that it's an exact model in all the sectors had they share the same infrastructure, if you will.
So, we've been in Sector 4 twice now, and from what we're told, the conditions are exactly the same. And that is rather harsh conditions,
something that Salvadorian officials are actually quite proud of because they say it meets the criteria for the brutality that went through El
Salvador for many years.
But I'm also hearing, Richard, that there is a bit more of a lax situation for some of the deportees for now, that does not mean that there's any sign
in the immediate future that they're going to be allowed to leave.
[16:40:10]
QUEST: So many more questions and we're out of time, which means I have to speak to you again. I'm grateful as always. David Culver, thank you sir.
Thank you.
As you and I continue our evening conversation, Moscow is ramping up its attack on Ukraine now hitting the city of Sumy. Horrific. Single worst
attack since 2023. A full and special report in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
QUEST: Russian missiles have ripped through the city of Sumy in what's being called a horrific attack. Ukrainian officials say this marks the
deadliest single attack on civilians since 2023, at least 34 people have been killed.
CNN's Fred Pleitgen explains how this attack further complicates diplomatic efforts between the U.S., Russia and Ukraine.
And putting into context, Ukraine has accepted a U.S. proposal for a 30-day ceasefire last month, it is Russia that has refused, and the images that
we're about to show you are disturbing, so we do want to give you a warning.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Sumy, Ukraine Palm Sunday, shortly after 10:00 a.m. As folks were heading
to mass, two missiles struck, killing and wounding scores.
We live in the city center, this eyewitness says, there is no military base. There are no soldiers here. It is simply a genocide. It is genocide.
After the explosions, mass carnage, first responders trying to help any survivors. Ukrainian officials said preliminary information indicates
Russia used a missile with a warhead packed with cluster munitions, weapons designed to harm people in a wide area.
[16:45:02]
Ukraine's president livid. Only filthy scoundrels can act like this, he said. Today, many state leaders, diplomats, regular people with big hearts
expressed their sympathy towards Ukraine. They condemned the Russian attack.
But while many world leaders denounced the attack, from President Donald Trump, a muted response.
TRUMP: I think it was terrible, and I was told they made a mistake. But I think it's a horrible thing. I think the whole war is a horrible thing.
PLEITGEN (voice over): As mourners gathered in Sumy, laying flowers for the many victims, Moscow claims its army does not go after civilians and was
instead targeting a high level military meeting.
There was another meeting of Ukrainian military leaders with their Western colleagues, the foreign minister says, who were either masquerading as
mercenaries or, I don't know who. There are NATO servicemen there, and they are in direct control.
All this as the fighting on the front lines remains as brutal as ever. Russia claiming its forces continue to make steady progress, while
President Trump's diplomatic efforts to broker a cease fire appear to have hit a road block.
Unclear if any progress was made when Trump envoy Steve Witkoff met Russian leader Vladimir Putin on Friday. The Kremlin downplaying expectations.
The whole journey consists of small steps to recreate an atmosphere of at least minimal trust, the Kremlin spokesman says, to strengthen this mutual
trust.
But the Ukrainians say they are losing faith in the Trump administration.
VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): I believe, sadly, Russian narratives are prevailing in the U.S. How is it possible to
witness our losses and our suffering, to understand what the Russians are doing and to still believe that they are not the aggressors, that they did
not start this war?
PLEITGEN (voice over): And there are few signs the war could end soon. Just hours after the attack in Sumy, drones struck the port town Odessa,
wounding several people and causing major damage to scores of buildings.
Fred Pleitgen, CNN, Berlin.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
QUEST: As you and I continue, America's largest bookstore chain has made a dramatic comeback. Barnes & Noble was on the brink of going bust, and after
the break, the chief executive tells me how he turned the business around. A good read, you can't beat it.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:50:26]
QUEST: I am reading Ernest Hemingway's The Sun Also Rises. I read it or I have not read it before. So, when I was down in Key West and just visited
Ernest Hemingway's. Anyway, it's good read.
Apparently, more and more of us are now reading the classics again, along with new contemporary works and a whole new generation of people that are
discovering the joys of reading.
The fortunes of Barnes & Noble is benefiting. Not long ago, it seemed the sun was setting on the company and the entire industry, book sales fell,
stores shut. Now thing are absolutely looking up.
America's largest bookstore is opening 60 new stores. So, James Daunt is the chief executive, and I joined him at the Upper West Side store to have
a good read.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JAMES DAUNT, CEO, BARNES & NOBLE: What we're finding is we have this extraordinary strength amongst young people reading. And they are reading
really good books. So, they're reading the classics. They're also reading the book of the moment, a fantasy book, a romantic book, a whatever. But
they are not abandoning these books either. They are reading middle March. They're reading the great classics.
QUEST: We all thought Barnes & Noble was done. You were out or it, was out for the count. It was never going to compete with Amazon, blah, blah, blah,
turn off the lights.
DAUNT: Well, and the reason it had got there, I think it had lost sight of the fact that it needed to run really compelling bookstores, and had
drifted away from that core principle and started selling too many things that weren't books. Had tried to cut costs as it got into a certain amount
of difficulty and that created a vicious cycle of ever less attractive stores, ever less compelling stores, and declining sales.
We were able to relatively quickly, just simply reverse that process, concentrate on books. Create better bookstores, invest in our people. Allow
them the freedom to curate their stores, and our sales went up.
QUEST: So, what are they doing, these local stores that you're finding fascinating about how they're doing it? What are they doing? A book is a
book is a book on the shelf.
DAUNT: A book is a book is a book. And it's the same book, whether you buy it from Amazon or whether you buy it in a bookstore, whether you buy it
from Barnes & Noble or from an independent bookstore. But it's the alchemy that you put around within the store, how you juxtaposition the
friendliness of the space, the welcome that you get, but also how we -- how we choose and what we choose to sell, how we curate a table, how we put a
display, where we put a recommend. And that is very, very local.
QUEST: This is the example of what we're talking about now, aren't we? You've got here best-selling on the Upper West Side, we recommend staff
picks, new and noteworthy. So, this is really where your philosophy comes into practice. Explain.
DAUNT: This is where the bookstore team here is deciding what they put. You will have a massive best seller, national bestseller, of course, but you'll
also have the books that they particularly like and some very idiosyncratic picks. We are in a particular community here, they are deciding what books
they want to sell to them. And these are not tables that you will find in every store. They're different.
Some books are, you know, this is everywhere we're selling lots and lots, but generally speaking, it's properly themed, properly curated. They've got
a lot of kids who use this store, as we can see, running around, and they say they've got quite a lot of kids books, but this is all around, the
skill and the intellectual engagement that they can provoke through how they curate here.
QUEST: I can read a book review in the newspaper or online, and I want to read the book tomorrow, and Amazon is already in my phone and will deliver
it to me tomorrow.
DAUNT: And Amazon is wonderful.
QUEST: And you have to compete with that.
DAUNT: Well, we have to compete with that a bit, but also, if you want to come and look at the book, if you want to see what else there is, you will
be much better off doing that in a bookstore. And in fact, I think the Amazon has taken away quite a lot of the need for us to have the books that
people are always asking for, which maybe don't enhance other books, manuals, technical books, all of those myriad of reference books and the
like.
[16:55:03]
And generally speaking, we don't carry those anymore. People know what they want and they buy it. What we can do is have all the books that you're not
quite sure you want, or when you simply want to come in and have the serendipity of discovering and embracing books and also doing it with
people, so both doing it with people, so both doing it with our booksellers, but also doing with other customers. It's a very, very social
spaces.
QUEST: In the food chain, Amazon kills off you and you become successful. You kill off the independent bookstore because you're bigger and you can do
better deals. That's the sort of --
DAUNT: I think that's a facile narrative, which is -- has actually proved to be wrong, that Amazon hasn't killed off the good bookstore at all, and
bookstores are now thriving, both independents and chain booksellers. We're going to open 60 stores this year. We're really doing well, and Amazon's
doing well, and other people sell books. Costco sells books, Target sells books, and so on.
Books are being read in a wider and wider sense, and we play an important part of that. And as they also say, public libraries also play a hugely
important part.
If we're here at 4:00 p.m., it will be a wash of kids coming in after school. It's in the evenings. It's those sort of 20 something-year-olds,
because we're a wonderful place to meet, see people not as threatening or as noisy as a bar, but a lovely place to enjoy.
So, during from the start of the day to the end of the day, you get the flow of the community coming through it. And because we're so amazing at
that, frankly, and like no other retailer, we actually fly a decent trade.
QUEST: Thank you very much.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
QUEST: I'll have a profitable moment after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
QUEST: Tonight's profitable moment. It is very easy to look at the market today and think, well, it's a bit of a relief rally, and we're waiting now
to see what's next, and will or they or won't they, and all the uncertainty and confusion.
I think if you do that, you're in serious danger of missing the wood for the trees or whatever that phrase is, because really, the story now is not
what tariffs may come, but what tariffs are actually here.
You see, the U.S. tariff regime now is the highest it's been in more than a century, with a 10 percent basic tariff, auto tariff, steels, pharma and
others to come. And that means that from now, even as you and I are speaking, this economy is slowing down as it reacts to the higher tariffs.
Never mind what the president does next. Never mind how other people react. The reality is, the tariff regime is working within the U.S. economy right
now, while you and I are speaking, and we won't see the results of it until the next and the next and the next and the next set of economic numbers.
[17:00:00]
And so, keep your eye on what's happening now with higher tariffs, more regimes, more trade barriers. And I guarantee you, within not too short a
longer time, you're going to start to see the real result.
And that's QUEST MEANS BUSINESS for tonight. I'm Richard Quest in New York, whatever you're up to in the hours ahead, I hope it's profitable. If in
doubt, read a good book.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
END
