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Quest Means Business

Hassett: Trump Studying Whether He Can Fire Powell; Tax On Chinese Ships will Apply To Non-Chinese Operators; Sen. Van Hollen Speaks After Meeting With Abrego Garcia; Sen. Chris Van Hollen Answers Questions After Kilmar Abrego Garcia Meeting; U.S. Threatens To "Move On" From Peace Efforts On Russia's War On Ukraine; Business And Consumers Grapple With Shifting U.S. Tariffs; Talks Falter As Birmingham Garbage Strike Continues. Aired 4-5p ET

Aired April 18, 2025 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[16:00:22]

MAX FOSTER, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST: Global markets are closed for the Good Friday holiday. There is still plenty of news to share with you, though.

A top White House economic adviser says the President is studying whether he can legally fire the Fed Chair.

Mexican coffee shops angry over U.S. tariffs rename the Americano.

And with no deal in sight, Birmingham's bin strike extends into a second month.

Live from London. It is Friday, April the 18th. I am Max Foster in for Richard Quest. This is QUEST MEANS BUSINESS.

Good evening to you.

Tonight the Trump administration is doubling down on its fight with the Federal Reserve. Top economic adviser, Kevin Hassett says the U.S.

President's team is studying whether firing Chair Jerome Powell is an option. It comes a day after Mr. Trump said the Fed Chair would be out real

fast if he wants.

Hassett wrote in a book a few years ago that firing Powell would threaten the credibility of the dollar and potentially crash the stock market.

Earlier today, he said his opinion has changed.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KEVIN HASSETT, DIRECTOR OF THE COUNCIL OF ECONOMIC ADVISERS: I think that at that time, the market was at a completely different place and I was

referring to the legal analysis that we had back then, and if there is new legal analysis that says something different, then it would be a different

market response as well.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FOSTER: Meanwhile, the President's criticism of the Fed continues. High interest rates are now a frequent feature of his press appearances,

including one from just a just a few hours ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: I keep hearing about prices and inflation. Prices are coming down, not going up. Only the

fake news says they're going up. The only thing that's even are interest rates and if we had a Fed Chairman that understood what he was doing,

interest rates would be coming down, too.

He should -- he should bring them down.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FOSTER: The U.S. says it will start charging fees on Chinese ships docking at its ports. U.S. Trade Representative Jamieson Greer said the move is

meant to reverse Chinese dominance, address threats to the U.S. supply chain and send a demand signal for U.S. built ships.

China controls more than a fifth of the global commercial shipping fleet. It says the new measures from the U.S. increase inflation and will

ultimately fail to bring shipbuilding back to the U.S.

Now, the new tax affects Chinese owned ships and some ships owned and operated by non-Chinese companies. Starting October the 14th, Chinese

companies will have to pay $50.00 a ton to dock at U.S. ports. Other companies that operate Chinese built ships will be hit with an $18.00 fee.

Vanessa Yurkevich is in New York.

This idea that it will be good for business doesn't really make sense, does it, when it will become much more expensive for China to bring ships in.

VANESSA YURKEVICH, CNN BUSINESS AND POLITICS CORRESPONDENT: Yes, and the way one analyst put it to me is this is essentially another tariff on top

of existing tariffs and here is why. It is because these fees that are going to go into effect on any Chinese ship docked outside a U.S. port will

affect Chinese companies that are sending products in on Chinese ships, but any other country from around the world or business that is bringing

products in on Chinese ships.

And these fees, you just put them on your screen there. But when you add them all together, they could end up costing millions of dollars more per

ship with cargo docked at a U.S. port.

And you have China saying essentially that this is just going to be inflationary for U.S. consumers. And one retail analyst said that they're

not really wrong in that because ultimately, these shipping lines are going to decide to pass this cost down to the businesses that are bringing in the

products on their ships, and then those businesses will ultimately have to pass that down to the U.S. consumer.

Now, it is important to note that President Trump says that he is doing this in many ways because he wants to revitalize the U.S. shipping and

manufacturing sector here in the U.S., but that sector is nonexistent. It doesn't exist anymore. We don't have the infrastructure. We do not have the

workforce to be able to build cargo ships like other countries.

And 90 percent of all cargo ships that are built right now are produced by South Korea, Japan and China. So what analysts have said is that if the

president wanted to rebuild the infrastructure here in the U.S. that he needs to really think about putting the money into that, building up a

workforce, building up ports that could accommodate this kind of shipbuilding.

But instead, what is going to be happening with these fees on these Chinese ships? It will ultimately end up making the goods and services that we get

from abroad more expensive, because while it is about China, so much of the world operates on these Chinese ships -- Max.

[16:05:14]

And also worth noting that if the President wants to restart shipbuilding here in the U.S., they need to think about all the other factors that go

into that, including materials. And right now, there is a 25 percent tariff on steel and aluminum. Looking at tariffs on copper and semiconductors,

critical components, Max, to actually building ships here in the U.S.

So what this ends up doing is ultimately, according to analysts, is making everything more expensive. The goods and products that come over on Chinese

ships, but also could make building Chinese building cargo ships right here in the U.S. more expensive.

It already costs four times more, Max to build a ship here in the U.S. compared to China, for example. So all of this creating a little bit of

confusion among the shipping community about what this exactly would look like. This will roll out in 180 days. So there is time, obviously, to pull

back on this, but the President pretty steadfast in making this one of his trade tactics going forward -- Max.

FOSTER: Yes, it is one of those sticks, isn't it? That's the question we are asking now.

Vanessa Yurkevich, thank you so much.

YURKEVICH: Yes. Thanks.

FOSTER: As we just mentioned, President Trump wants to replace the chair of the Federal Reserve. The leading candidate emerging to replace Jerome

Powell is former Fed Governor Kevin Warsh. Warsh is a Vice President at Morgan Stanley. Before becoming a special assistant to then President

George Bush on economic policy, he was appointed to the Fed Board of Governors in 2006 and served through to the height of the recession.

Kevin Liptak is at the White House. You know, all of this talk about him being fired effectively. It doesn't really work like that, does it? It is a

completely independent institution.

KEVIN LIPTAK, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: It is supposed to be, yes, and that hasn't stopped President Trump from openly floating the prospect

that he could ask Jay Powell to leave or demand that he leave, but he has been informed, I am told, by advisers, including the Treasury Secretary,

Scott Bessent, that making any attempt to fire the head of the Federal Reserve could cause market volatility, which is something at this point, he

really can't afford after this tariff policy rollout has caused this whipsaw in the markets, I don't think that there is much appetite on the

part of President Trump or many of his top advisers to see any more market turmoil going forward.

And so while the President talks openly on his social media pages and in his appearances about getting rid of Jay Powell, it doesn't appear as if

that will be happening, at least in the near term. But Jay Powell's term will be up in about a year's time, and so we do know that the President

will begin interviews for his replacement at some point in the coming months and it does seem as if Kevin Warsh is one of those who could be

among the leaders to take over that position once Jay Powell leaves, whether it is by firing or whether it is by the end of his term next May.

Warsh is someone who has advised President Trump in the past. He was in the running to become Treasury Secretary in this term, so he is someone who is

well known by the President, well known by his top advisers. But I do think the fact that the President is making very clear his positions on monetary

policy will sort of affect how Warsh is viewed going forward.

You know, there is no question that now that the President has sort of broken this barrier of talking about interest rates, talking about his view

of the Federal Reserve Chairman sort of injecting himself into a place where presidents don't normally venture, Warsh's own independence, if he

becomes Fed Chair, will be certainly under question and it remains to be seen how exactly he would navigate that if he is to take on that top

position.

But that's still quite a ways away. There still will be quite a lot of volatility in the Powell-Trump relationship, at least over the next year.

FOSTER: Kevin, at the White House, as ever. Thank you.

LIPTAK: Sure.

FOSTER: Now the Canadian Chamber of Commerce CEO says trade tensions between Canada and the U.S. are causing a complete mess. Currently, goods

coming to the U.S. from Canada face a 25 percent tariff, but they're exempt from the tariff if they are compliant with the USMCA trade agreement

President Trump signed in his first term.

Candace Laing told Richard that exemption hasn't solved everything, though.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CANDACE LAING, CEO, CANADIAN CHAMBER OF COMMERCE: It is good news that we have some reprieve and tariff relief from goods that are CUSMA-compliant.

But I think what we've now just in the last few weeks really discovered on both sides of the border is we were unaware of the difference between how

many of those goods weren't actually registered under our agreement, our USMCA trade agreement.

So we have small and medium enterprises, the majority of which are just scrambling to figure out now, how do they become registered under our trade

agreement? They may have been just trading with the most favored nation rate, and so you have a probably 80 to 90 percent coverage of goods that

would be, you know compliant but not registered.

And so now we have a whole bunch of different numbers of --

RICHARD QUEST, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST, "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS": Hang on. If you are dealing in compliant goods, but you have them registered, then you

wouldn't be able to get the benefit of the USMCA umbrella and you'd be on the 25 percent. This is a mess.

LAING: It is a complete mess. And I think, you know, my heart goes out to our small and medium sized businesses who, you know, just didn't -- you

know, have maybe the capacity to do the paperwork before. And now all of a sudden rather than kind of, you know, doing business with the MFN rate,

they are slapped with this tariff. So we have hotlines now, new hotlines set up from our government in Canada to support these businesses. I hope

the same is happening for, you know, U.S. companies because everybody is very, very confused.

QUEST: How far are we in seeing the damage? Because I realized we are at the beginning of the process and there is still a lot of confusion. But

you, with your members are actually, if you will, at the coalface. You can see what is -- so where are we in terms of witnessing damage?

LAING: Well, let me give you an example of just where this gets really difficult and where its maybe you know, giving us all some pause and the

administration some pause as well. So when you look at tariffing parts, but you wouldn't tariff the parts that are, you know, when you're looking at

origin and they are U.S. or Canada parts, when you're looking at those tariffs both ways. You know, our sectoral tariffs if you're looking at the

ones that apply to steel and aluminum, you take a can of beer, Richard, the beer you wouldn't tariff, but the can is subject to tariffs.

But apply that same logic to an automobile and we are, I don't think, close to being able to say we can all do the work and the paperwork involved in

sorting out how much of this car is tariffed and tariff exempt.

QUEST: Candice, has it dawned on you that you're not going back to what was there before? Whatever comes on the other side, you know, the seven stages

of grief where the final bit is the acceptance that whatever was before has gone and it ain't coming back.

LAING: Well, Richard, there is a stage of grief that's very important before acceptance and that's the bargaining stage. So I think from a

Canadian perspective, we are coming out of the anger stage and denial stage. You know, acknowledging that this relationship is forever changed.

But once we are past our election in Canada, which is April 28th, I mean, we are hopeful about a comprehensive conversation about our relationship

between our two great nations. And, you know, how we need to be approaching economic security, perhaps some of those impacts that you spoke of, you

know, because they are very real, the cost to businesses, the cost to even contemplating moving production. I could walk you through oil, I could walk

you through auto, aluminum and steel. We are talking major, major not only capital costs, but the time it takes to rejig supply chains, which between

our two countries are competitive and integrated and secure.

And we are absolutely hopeful that through the bargaining stage of grief, Richard, we can maintain our trade agreement.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FOSTER: We are going to take you to Dulles International Airport now. U.S. Senator Chris Van Hollen from Maryland, speaking following a meeting with

wrongly deported man Kilmar Abrego Garcia in El Salvador.

SEN. CHRIS VAN HOLLEN (D-MD): -- and thank all of the rest of you who are joining us in solidarity with the Constitution and the law.

Look, I am a little sleep deprived and I want to be as clear as possible about what this is about and what it is not about. So I am going to read

the remarks that I wrote on the plane ride home.

As the federal courts have said, we need to bring Mr. Abrego Garcia home to protect his constitutional rights to due process, and it is also important

that people understand this case is not just about one man, it is about protecting the constitutional rights of everybody who resides in the United

States of America.

[16:15:15]

(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)

VAN HOLLEN: If you deny the constitutional rights of one man, you threaten the constitutional rights and due process for everyone else in America.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, thank you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

VAN HOLLEN: The Fourth Circuit put it very clearly in its strong opinion yesterday, and I quote: "It is difficult in some cases to get to the very

heart of the matter, but in this case, it is not hard at all. The government -- in this case the Trump administration -- is asserting a right

to stash away residents of this country in foreign prisons without the semblance of due process that is the foundation of our constitutional

order. Further, it claims, in essence, that because it has rid itself of custody, that there is nothing that can be done. This should be shocking

not only to judges, but to the intuitive sense of liberty that Americans far removed from the courthouses still hold dear."

They summed up the issue at stake perfectly, and that's why the Supreme Court, in a nine to nothing decision, ordered the Trump administration to

facilitate the return of Mr. Abrego Garcia.

Now the Trump administration wants to flat out lie about what this case is about. They want to change the subject. They want to make it about

something else, and they are flouting the orders from the federal district court, the Fourth Circuit Court and the Supreme Court to facilitate his

return. That is why I traveled to El Salvador, leaving here on Wednesday.

And I want to express my gratitude to members of my family and members of my staff who agree that we all must be prepared to take risks because of

the current risk to our Constitution itself.

In addition to doing a variety -- having a variety of discussions on bilateral issues between the United States and El Salvador, I had two main

goals. One was to urge the government of El Salvador not to be complicit in the illegal abduction and detention of Mr. Abrego Garcia and to release

him. I made that request directly to the Vice President of El Salvador. The president was out of country at the time, and I've previously reported on

that conversation.

My principal mission was to meet with Kilmar Abrego Garcia. I told his wife, Jennifer, and his family that I would do everything in my power to

make that happen. And last night, at about 6:40 P.M., El Salvador time, 8:45 P.M. here on the East Coast, I called Jennifer to tell her that I had

met with Kilmar, and I told her what he said to me, which was first and foremost, that he missed her and his family and as he said that, you could

see it here.

Now getting a meeting with Kilmar was not easy. On Wednesday, I met with the Vice President of El Salvador and asked if I could meet with him. The

answer was no. I asked if I returned the following week whether I could meet with him. The answer was no.

I asked if I could call him on the phone. The answer was no. I asked if his wife, Jennifer, could call him on the phone. The answer was no. No to his

wife? No to his mother. No to his lawyers.

So the following day, which was yesterday, I decided to give it another try by driving to CECOT. CECOT is the notorious prison where Kilmar was taken

when he was abducted.

I was accompanied by a lawyer for Kilmar's wife, Jennifer and mother, Cecilia, Chris Newsom.

[16:20:00]

About three kilometers outside of CECOT, we were pulled over by soldiers. You could see the rest of the traffic was allowed to go by. We were pulled

over by soldiers and told that we were not allowed to proceed any further. When I asked why, I was told that they had orders not to allow us to go any

further.

When I asked them if they knew anything about the condition of Mr. Abrego Garcia, they said no.

And so much later in the afternoon, I was actually getting ready to catch a plane out of San Salvador back here later yesterday evening, and all of a

sudden I got word that I would be allowed to meet with Kilmar Abrego Garcia and they brought him to the hotel where I was staying.

And after that meeting, as I said, I called his wife, Jennifer, to report on some of the news of that meeting. And now I am going to report to all of

you about our discussion.

When I told him that his wife and family sent their love and were fighting for Kilmar to return home every day, he said that he was worried about all

of you, that was his response. How are you dealing with this horrible ordeal and nightmare for the family? He said that thinking of you, members

of his family is what gave him the strength to persevere, to keep going day-to-day even under these awful circumstances.

He spoke several times about your five-year-old son who has autism, a five- year-old son who was in the car in Maryland when Kilmar was pulled over by U.S. government agents and handcuffed. His five-year-old son was in the car

at that time.

He told me that he was taken to Baltimore first. I assume that was the Baltimore Detention Center. He asked to make a phone call from there to let

people know what had happened to him, but he was denied that opportunity. He said he was later taken with some others from Baltimore to a detention

center in Texas, and some point thereafter, I don't know whether it was a period of hours or days, he was handcuffed, shackled and put on a plane

along with some others where they couldn't see out of the windows. There was no way to see where they were going in the plane.

They didn't know for sure where they were going. They landed in El Salvador and he was taken to CECOT prison. He was placed in a cell with, if I recall

correctly, and don't hold me to it, of about 25 other prisoners at CECOT. He said he was not afraid of the other prisoners in his immediate cell, but

that he was traumatized by being at CECOT and fearful of many of the prisoners in other cell blocks who called out to him and taunted him in

various ways.

He told me, and this was yesterday, that eight days ago, so I guess nine days ago from today, he was moved to another detention center in Santa Ana

where the conditions are better. But he said despite the better conditions, he still has no access to any news from the outside world and no ability to

communicate with anybody in the outside world.

His conversation with me was the first communication he has had with anybody outside of prison, since he was abducted. He said he felt very sad

about being in a prison because he had not committed any crimes.

When I asked him what was the one thing he would ask for in addition to his freedom, he said he wanted to talk to his wife, Jennifer. I told him I

would work very hard to make that happen.

[16:25:08]

I told him that in addition to his family, that all of you who were here today were fighting to bring him home. I told him that his brothers and

sisters in his union, the sheet metal workers union, were fighting to bring him home. That brought a smile to his face.

I told him that millions of Americans understand that what is happening to him is a threat to their own constitutional rights. I told him about the

decisions of the federal courts, the district court, the Fourth Circuit Court, the Supreme Court, and I think that in addition to knowing that his

family was fighting for him, all of that gave him strength, the fact that all of you here were fighting for him.

I want to say something about the Trump administration's efforts to change the conversation about what this case is about. This case is about

upholding constitutional rights for Abrego Garcia and for every American. The President, President Trump and the Trump administration wants to say

that those who are fighting to stand up for our Constitution don't want to fight gang violence. That is an outright lie. That is a big, big lie.

I, for one, have been fighting against transnational gang violence, especially MS-13, for over 20 years, probably for longer than Donald Trump

ever uttered those words, MS-13.

Over 20 years ago, I worked to establish an anti-gang task force, a regional anti-gang task force in the Maryland-Washington, D.C., and

Virginia area. I did it in a bipartisan way with then Congressmen Frank Wolf and Tom Davis, and we have made substantial progress in this region.

We have a long way still to go, but those efforts have resulted in progress.

So I say to the President and the Trump administration, if you want to make claims about Mr. Abrego Garcia and MS-13, you should present them in the

court, not over social media, not at press conferences where you just rattle stuff off because here is what the federal district court judge said

about exactly this issue. This is Judge Xinis. So she is the federal district court judge in the district of Maryland, where the case first

appeared. This is a quote from her opinion: "Defendants -- and in this case, this is the Trump administration she is referring to -- have offered

no evidence, have offered no evidence linking Abrego Garcia to MS-13 or any terrorist activity. And vague allegations of gang association alone do not

supersede the expressed protections offered under the INA."

She emphasized --

FOSTER: So, that is Chris Van Hollen, he has been out to see Kilmar Abrego Garcia who -- and he has been -- he was just telling us that Garcia has

actually been moved away from that maximum security prison that we thought he was in, but he still had no access to the outside world. Kevin Liptak

listening to some of the more complex arguments there. This is very much for the senator, a matter of principle, isn't it, Kevin?

LIPTAK: Yes, I think so. But the question I think going forward is whether his account of his meeting with Abrego Garcia is going to change anything

about his circumstances, because so far, the Trump administration and President Trump has himself have made very clear that they will not be

doing anything to bring him back to the United States after their own lawyers admitted that his deportation was erroneous and a mistake.

And the President of El Salvador, President Bukele, has said that he will not send Abrego Garcia back to the United States. He says that he has no

power to do that and that he will remain in custody there. And so while you hear Chris Van Hollen there talk about the conditions that he witnessed him

being held under, he talked about the anguish that he heard Abrego Garcia describe at not being able to talk to his wife or to his children, one of

whom is autistic, it doesn't appear as if those testimonials are going to do anything to change the circumstances.

[16:30:02]

What could potentially change them is the courts and you have heard the court here in Washington say that they believe the Trump administration is

not doing enough to abide by the court order to do more to bring him back to the United States.

So far, you've heard Trump administration officials and the President himself say that a judge has no power to tell them how to conduct foreign

policy. So, you hear all of these conflicting messages coming from the courts and from Democrats on one side and from the Trump administration and

Bukele on the other side.

And so, certainly, his testimony here will be powerful for the supporters of Abrego Garcia, but it doesn't appear as if it's going to change anyone

in the administration's mind as they work to move forward on this.

FOSTER: OK, Kevin, thank you. We'll bring some more highlights of that talk as it goes on.

Coming up, the U.S. says it might be just days away from ending its push for peace in Ukraine. Secretary of State Marco Rubio says the White House

needs to see some progress soon in the next few days, in fact, that's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

FOSTER: Hello, I'm Max Foster. More QUEST MEANS BUSINESS in just a moment, before that, the headlines this hour, the White House is losing patience in

its push for peace in Ukraine, President Donald Trump today backed up earlier comments made by Secretary of State Marco Rubio, who said the

United States may abandon negotiations within days if talks don't produce any signs of progress.

A judge has ruled against Sean Diddy Combs in his sex trafficking hearing. Attorneys for the music mogul wanted an additional two months to prepare a

defense. The judge says the trial will begin on May 5th as scheduled. Combs is accused of sex trafficking, racketeering and transportation to engage in

prostitution. He is pleading not guilty.

As many Christians around the world mark Good Friday, Pope Francis continues to recover from double pneumonia. He's not appeared at services

at St. Peter's Basilica today and will not be leading ceremonies leading up to Easter Sunday, as he usually does. Francis is now almost halfway into

his two month recovery period after leaving hospital.

[16:35:26]

All right, we're actually going to go back to Dallas International Airport. U.S. Senator Chris Van Hollen answering questions after his visit to see

Mr. Abrego Garcia.

SEN. CHRIS VAN HOLLEN (D-MD): That's one of the conditions, one of the notorious parts of that prison, which, by the way, is a blatant violation

of international law, as I said when I was in (INAUDIBLE).

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You're the first person that can see a person that was in CECOT and that left CECOT for a few minutes, what did he say about how

it is being there? Because he is the first prisoner from CECOT that was outside, ever.

HOLLEN: Oh, as I think I said, I mean, he said the -- what he said was that he -- it was his best guess that most of the cells were packed with about a

hundred people. I asked him why. He said, when they take roll call in during the day, people have to call out their names from different cells.

As I said, in his cell, I believe there were about 25 people until he was - - he was moved.

But as I said, while he wasn't fearful of the other prisoners in his own cell, he was fearful about the taunts that he received from other prisoners

in CECOT.

Go here and then here, sir. OK, go ahead.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sir, what do you think you've achieved with this trip and what's next in terms of getting actual release and sent back to the

United States?

VAN HOLLEN: Well, the first thing was to accomplish what his mother and family were really desperate to learn, which is that he's alive. And heard

a thing about him that for someone who's -- you know, he's obviously in a terrible situation.

As I said, he's experienced trauma. He said he's sad every day, but I think this persistence resulted in having this chance to meet with him, to begin

to get a little bit of his story, and I think it is the first step to ultimately bringing him home as the Constitution requires. Go here.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you have a sense of his health, well-being? Did you sense -- get any indication that he'd been abused?

VAN HOLLEN: I did not get that that sense. Look, you never know. But I asked him if he was OK. He said, yes. He said he has a blood pressure

condition. He has seen a doctor. So, you know, on a very cursory examination, he appear OK.

Now, I will say, just to be clear, there was some negotiation about the terms of this meeting, and he was -- we were kind of surrounded by video

cameras. So, I do want to -- I do want to say that that was the setting he was in.

I should also just say, you know, I mentioned the fake Margarita scandal. They actually wanted to have the meeting by the side of the pool, in the

hotel, just right?

I mean, this is a guy who's been in CECOT. This is a guy who's been detained. They want to create this appearance that life was just lovely for

Kilmar, which, of course, is a big fat lie. Yes?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Have you been having any --

FOSTER: Well, obviously, you know a lot of spin going around this case and just describing there how Salvadorans wanted to have that meeting taking

place via pool was pretty extraordinary, but he is alive. That was the main message from there, and that he's not in this very high security prison

that you've seen us reporting on. He was traumatized by that experience, and is in somewhere lot calmer, it seems, at least.

And now it's a case of living up to the Constitution according to the senator saying that the Constitution needs to be upheld, he needs to be

returned. And if there is justice to be faced, it should be in the U.S.

Meanwhile, the White House says the clock is ticking on its efforts to end the war in Ukraine. President Trump says he needs to see progress, and he

needs to see it now.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: If for some reason, one of the two parties makes it very difficult, we're just going to say, you're

foolish, you're fools, you're horrible people, and we're going to just take a pass, but hopefully we won't have to do that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[16:40:03]

FOSTER: U.S. Secretary of State Marco Rubio said beforehand that the U.S. would move on if there's no progress within a few days.

Nic Robertson is with me. I mean, you've reported obviously, on the Trump administration for a while, even the last administration. Is this just

trying to put pressure on Russia and Ukraine and the European Union, or is he serious?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: It does seem to be a moment to put pressure on them. I mean, it's interesting that the day began

with this sense of impending U.S. running for the hills because the whole thing was failing. Yet you have the vice president later in the day and the

president saying that they're reasonably confident.

It's very interesting to me, because we're trying to figure out this, the broad terms of the deal that Secretary of State Marco Rubio said that he'd

given to the to the French, the Germans, the British and Ukrainians yesterday, and had spoken with his opposite number in Moscow, Sergey

Lavrov, the foreign minister there, and explain it to him, trying to figure out who the pressure is really on. Is it on the Ukrainians? Is it on the

Russians.

You know, the Ukrainians signed up to the cease fire unconditional. The U.S. has been trying to get Russia to do the same. President Putin has

prevaricated.

But the fact that we're told that there will be another meeting early next week, and it will be here in London, it will be with Ukrainians, the

French, the Germans, the British, the U.S. coming in does rather imply that the answers to these questions, this sense of moving quickly, that's kind

of first fall on the Europeans and Ukrainians, because we're not aware of any high level discussions that are going on with the Russians.

So, that's where the pressure seems to be headed. What's the answer that they're looking for? What are the -- what are the broad terms of this deal?

We don't know that either.

FOSTER: OK, Nic, thank you so much, we're watching it.

Consumers still figuring out how to adapt to the White House's import tariffs. I'll speak to a finance professor about Americans and how they're

faring, after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

FOSTER: Nintendo says it won't raise the price of the Switch 2 after all, the company had paused pre orders of its new console to access -- assess

rather, the impact of U.S. tariffs.

The White House is evolving trade war has also forced consumers to adapt, and the data shows they're not happy about it. The University of Michigan's

consumer sentiment index plunged 11 percent in April. That's the second lowest level on record going back to 1952.

[16:45:08]

Itzhak Ben-David is the Neil Klatskin Chair in Finance and Real Estate at Ohio State University's Fisher College of Business. Thank you so much for

joining us.

Because we're really interested in trying to get into consumers heads right now, we saw the last set of retail figures showing a massive boom, really,

in spending. But that was because it's almost panic buying, isn't it? They were stockpiling before prices went up.

ITZHAK BEN-DAVID, NEIL KLATSKIN CHAIR IN FINANCE AND REAL ESTATE, FISHER COLLEGE OF BUSINESS: Yes, absolutely. If you knew that prices are going to

increase tomorrow, then you would start shopping today, right? That is how it works. This is what we see. We see that there is greater interest in

buying new cars, in buying new T.V.s, people are hoarding ahead of the upcoming tariffs.

FOSTER: But that just suggests, you know, they're going to go off a cliff of confidence once the new prices kick in. Because they've spent their

money this month, they're not going to spend it next month, and the prices are going to be higher.

BEN-DAVID: Exactly. I mean, it's better to spend it this month and get the good price. We saw it also on import to the United States. There is a spike

in imports to the United States of both of goods and materials for the industry.

So, also businesses think about the same way, in a way, right? This is like, this is your last chance to buy things at a pre-tariff price.

FOSTER: Also, you get this sort of state of flux, don't you, when there's so much uncertainty, where you don't know where prices are going to go,

people just don't spend. And that's going to be the next phase, presumably.

BEN-DAVID: Well, you think twice before spending right? It's less -- spending less maybe on vacations and more on things that we planned on

doing anyway. So, you would have this kind of cautious behavior. So, I anticipate that we will see more cautious spending. Let's call it this way,

looking for a coupons, looking for items on sale, preparing for the worst. You know, it's kind of a semi-pandemic days again, remember the March 2020.

FOSTER: Because it's a horrible feeling as well, isn't it? When you also seeing your -- the value of your savings fall, you know, a very high

proportion of regular Americans invest in the stock market, and they've got shares and bonds, of course, as well.

So, they're seeing their daily expenses rise, or they're expecting them to rise, and they're saying their savings fall, and that's a really nerve

wracking situation, and jobs going as well.

BEN-DAVID: For sure. So, we see a retirement age kind of picking up. So, people start kind of reconsidering when they will retire, because, you

know, if your retirement fund dropped 15 or 20 percent, you probably kind of reconsider when to pull the trigger on retirement.

We see people leaving less their job, so it's try to cling to their current job, as opposed to leaving their current job and looking for a new one. So,

it's you know, safer option is to say, stay where you are.

FOSTER: Yes. Professor Ben-David, really appreciate you joining us today. Thank you.

BEN-DAVID: Yes, pleasure. Thank you so much.

FOSTER: E-sports and mobile gaming are booming across Africa. A gaming publisher, Carry1st says the continent's gaming market was worth $1.8

billion last year, driven by about 350 million gamers, and that number is growing all the time.

CONNECTING AFRICA's Victoria rubidi looks at how gaming is becoming one of the fastest growing sports in Africa through local innovation.

(CONNECTING AFRICA)

[16:51:41]

FOSTER: In the U.K., garbage strike in Britain's second largest city continues after talks broke down this week, we'll talk about how locals are

dealing with Birmingham's trash pile up and what comes next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

FOSTER: The garbage strike in Britain's second largest city will continue after union negotiations ended without a deal this week, but union

officials in Birmingham say they'll head back to the bargaining table next week.

Garbage collectors have been striking on and off for weeks now. Look at the scenes there. The city's council says it's working to clear the backlog of

trash.

CNN's Anna Cooban went to investigate the height of the crisis, which was just in late March, and spoke to those dealing with the fallout.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[16:55:00]

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Rats gaining access to cars, gaining access to the kitchens, air vents, getting underneath the beds. I've had people crying

down the phone saying, I've got a rat, can you come out now? I have call one last week and it was over 22 inches in length, tip to tail and it

wasn't fully grown. Look at this, so you can smell it, look where it is.

ANNA COOBAN, CNN BUSINESS AND ECONOMICS REPORTER: Oh, right by pharmacy.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right by pharmacy and there's a school there.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FOSTER: Anna's with me. I mean, you're from that region. I mean, it's just a shock to see, isn't it?

COOBAN: I mean, yes, as you've seen there, Max, garbage was piling up on the side of roads, and this is all over changes that the city government

wants to make to its garbage collection service and garbage collection workers are unhappy with this. They say that effectively results in a pay

cut, in some cases, up to 8,000 pounds a year. The city government disputes that.

But really, the people bearing the brunt of this are the 1.2 million residents of Birmingham, U.K.'s second biggest city.

FOSTER: It's amazing how quickly it builds up, isn't it?

COOBAN: Yes. I mean, I was there a couple of weeks ago and several feet high with some of these amounts of garbage.

I do need to say that the city government has made progress recently in clearing this backlog of garbage, over 20,000 tons to date. But this does

just give you a sense of the scale of the problem.

FOSTER: And tell us about Birmingham, because this is a -- the council's bankrupt, the city's bankrupt, right?

COOBAN: Well, the city government declared effective bankruptcy the end of 2023. What this means from a city government perspective is that basically

the amount it expected to take in in income from local taxes isn't enough to cover its expenditure, so it basically paused, halted all non-essential

spending.

FOSTER: And you know, people just don't expect to see this. You know, we've got an international audience, and you've got a, you know, a rich city in a

rich nation and this is happening. I mean, but it does show the state of public finances in the U.K., you know, even though it's a wealthy country.

COOBAN: Yes. I mean, the U.K. is the world's sixth largest economy. This is the second biggest city in the sixth largest economy. This is not something

that you would expect to happen. And I think the fact that the government declared effective bankruptcy is just again, as you said, a real sign of

the stress, the strain that many cities across the U.K. have been facing.

FOSTER: Anna, thank you very much. That is QUEST MEANS BUSINESS, I'm Max Foster. Up next, "THE LEAD WITH JAKE TAPPER."

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

END