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Quest Means Business
Trump: "Wasn't Happy" with Putin After Deadly Strike on Kyiv; White House, Beijing Give Conflicting Messages on Talks; Trump Family Stands to Profit from his Meme Coin; Pope Francis' Legacy of Elevating Women in the Catholic Church; Families Share Histories of Loss, Sacrifice and Courage; OpenAI Expresses Interest in Google's Web Browser; Exploring AI-Generated Answers from ChatGPT. Aired 4-5p ET
Aired April 24, 2025 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[16:00:03]
PAULA NEWTON, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST: Fair day of gains on Wall Street. You see the Dow there up a little bit better than one percent, still hoping
that there will be some trade deals in the weeks, if not months to follow. Those are the markets and these are the main events.
President Trump says things will happen if Russia does not stop attacks on Ukraine. Germany is expecting zero growth this year, and the country is
blaming U.S. trade policy and the hidden cost of being so polite to those A.I. chatbots that ChatGPT CEO says all of those, please and thank you,
stop it. It is costing the company millions.
Live from New York. It is Thursday, April 24th. I am Paula Newton in for Richard Quest and this is QUEST MEANS BUSINESS.
And a very good evening. Tonight, Donald Trump has issued a rare rebuke of Russian President Vladimir Putin. President Trump spoke at the White House
earlier while meeting with the Prime Minister of Norway. Now, the U.S. President said he was not happy with Putin's deadly bombardment of Kyiv
overnight. It comes as the white house tries to broker a deal to stop the fighting.
CNN's Jeff Zeleny asked Mr. Trump how frustrated he was. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: We are in the midst of talking peace and missiles were fired, and I was not happy with
it, that's what I meant and that's -- you know -- that's what it is. I assume that's what you mean.
JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: If the bombs keep falling, will you consider additional sanctions toward Russia, or what will
you do if President Putin --
TRUMP: I'd rather answer that question in a week. I want to see if we can have a deal. No reason to answer it now, but I won't be happy, let me put
it that way. Things will happen.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NEWTON: Betsy Klein is in Washington for us.
Betsy, look, he gave himself kind of a self-imposed deadline there, saying, we will see you in a week, but did we get any clarity on President Trump's
position on any peace negotiation and if the President will indeed walk away from this?
BETSY KLEIN, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE PRODUCER: Yes, well, as you know, Paula, President Trump campaigned on this idea of ending the Russia-Ukraine
conflict within his first 24 hours of taking office the second time, and we are now on the cusp of his first hundred days in office. There have been
significant negotiations with Ukraine, with Russia, direct talks with Russian President Vladimir Putin and really no major breakthroughs at this
stage.
But I am really struck by just how vague President Trump was during this meeting in the Oval Office. It comes really after weeks of minimal
progress. He said that he believes both Russia and Ukraine want peace, and he is optimistic that they are going to get peace, but it is really unclear
what, if anything, can give him that confidence as we saw Russia aggressively bombard Kyiv overnight. It also comes after Trump's special
envoy to Ukraine, Keith Kellogg, was in Europe for meetings with Ukraine and European officials earlier this week.
He characterized those meetings as productive, while another senior U.S. official said there remain wide disagreements between the U.S. and Ukraine
on how to move forward here.
But as you mentioned, our colleague, Jeff Zeleny asking President Trump what he meant when he posted "Vladimir, Stop" on social media earlier this
week. He said, I didn't like last night. I wasn't happy with it. We are in the middle of talking peace and missiles were fired. But he really declined
to say whether he would consider additional sanctions on Russia as a consequence. He said he wants to see if they can get to a deal, but if the
attacks don't stop, "I won't be happy."
He was also noncommittal on whether Ukraine would have to cede territory to Russia, and asked what concessions Russia is giving, Paula, he simply said
that Russia is offering a pretty big concession by not taking the whole country of Ukraine.
NEWTON: And Ukraine, clearly seen that as siding with Russia.
Did we learn any more, though, on whether the U.S. and this is what is key here, whether the U.S. would once again pause military aid and intelligence
sharing with Ukraine if it walks away from the negotiating table?
KLEIN: Yes, that was a question that the president was specifically asked in the Oval Office. And once more, remaining very noncommittal. He said,
let's see what happens. He said he could answer that question again in two weeks. But very high stakes coming up tomorrow between Steve Witkoff, the
Special Presidential Envoy, and Russian President Vladimir Putin. So we will be watching that quite closely, as will Ukraine, the White House and
Russia.
NEWTON: Betsy Klein, thank you so much.
Now, coming up for us, Donald Trump says his administration is talking to China every day, in fact, about the tariffs. Now, the White House says
Beijing right now won't come as any surprise to you are giving conflicting messages on the status of those trade talks.
[16:05:06]
Donald Trump says his team spoke with Chinese officials this morning. Meantime, China in fact, denies that the two sides have been discussing
tariffs.
The President also says other countries are lining up to make deals and that he will discuss trade with world leaders while in Rome for the Pope's
funeral.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: We have many of them there and they all want to meet. They want to meet about trade and we are making some great inroads and great deals. You
might want to speak about that, Mr. Secretary.
SCOTT BESSENT, U.S. TREASURY SECRETARY: We had a very successful bilateral meeting with the Republic of South Korea today. We may be Moving faster
than I thought and we will be talking technical terms as early as next week.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NEWTON: Now, the head of the IMF, meantime, is urging the U.S. and others to reach those trade agreements quickly. Kristalina Georgieva said a
settlement among the main players is essential, and that uncertainty is very costly. Germany says U.S. trade policy could, in fact push its economy
into stagflation. It just cut this year's growth forecast to absolutely nothing. That is true. Zero.
Anna Cooban joins us now.
You know, I've been kind of surprised markets still seem to be pricing in trade deals here. I don't know why. Did we see any proof that the U.S. is
at least negotiating in some way, if not with China, then at least with other countries? I know we just heard the Treasury Secretary there talk
about South Korea.
ANNA COOBAN, CNN BUSINESS AND ECONOMICS REPORTER: Well, it is important to note that Trump really has moderated some of his language around tariffs on
China recently. He said that earlier this week that tariffs on China, which currently stand at around a whopping 145 percent are due to, well, he can
see them come down substantially, although he was careful to say that he wouldn't -- they wouldn't come down to zero.
Now, this softening language hasn't really been taken with -- it has been taken with a pinch of salt in China. They've essentially said that they
want to see the removal of these tariffs. And they have, of course, imposed their own 125 percent retaliatory tariffs on American goods.
Now, other countries are taking a different tack. The U.K., for example, keen to strike a deal. Rachel Reeves, the Finance Minister, was in
Washington, D.C. today is basically saying that they're not going to retaliate. That cool heads will prevail and that they're trying to work
hard to strike a deal.
NEWTON: And yet, at this point in time, when the markets look at this, the hard data will be coming in weeks and months as consumer sentiment and now
corporate earnings have been seemingly quite pessimistic. I mean, the bottom line is, even if people keep talking about deals, there are no
deals, there are tariffs in fact.
COOBAN: Yes, and with tariffs comes an enormous amount of uncertainty. I mean, this is what the IMF has said this week, that uncertainty is very
costly. And by that, what they mean is that businesses can't plan, they can't invest, they can't hire workers, and consumers too, they prefer to
save their money rather than spend it in a highly uncertain environment.
Now, some of the data that economists are going to be studying over the next few months to see the impact of these tariffs and just the uncertainty
of these tariffs, is inflation in the U.S. They are -- the tariffs are essentially taxes. They tend to raise the price of goods for consumers. So
that could push up inflation in the U.S. and then of course in Europe that exports to the U.S.
Economists are going to be looking at growth numbers, as our exports or the demand for those exports down, for example.
NEWTON: Okay. Anna Cooban for us in London, thanks so much, and we will be right back with more news in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:11:06]
NEWTON: We have more now on our top story, President Donald Trump says he wasn't happy with Vladimir Putin after Russia's deadly strike on Kyiv. Mr.
Trump took to social media to get his message across. He called the strikes on Kyiv unnecessary and posted, "Vladimir, STOP." That last word in all
caps.
Now Russia, we will remind you fired 70 missiles and 145 drones at Ukraine, mainly targeting the capital, Kyiv. At least 12 people were killed and
nearly a hundred others were hurt. Ukraine's President Zelenskyy later said Moscow was trying to put pressure on the White House.
John E. Herbst is the former U.S. Ambassador to Ukraine, and he joins us now. I want to thank you for being with us. If you were in President
Zelenskyy's position right now, how concerned would you be by President Trump's position as he articulated? And just to recap here, we've got that
social media post that said "STOP." He also said -- this is President Trump -- that he had no allegiance to either side in this war, and that his peace
plan would, in fact give all Ukrainian territory currently being fought over to Russia.
JOHN E. HERBST, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO UKRAINE: Well, if I were President Zelenskyy, I would be very concerned about this, but as an
American who knows Russian policy well and American interests in Eurasia and globally, I am very concerned.
Look, Trump came into office saying that he could produce a durable peace quickly and the phrase durable is important, but a policy of slamming the
victim, who has said he is willing to accept Trump's proposals on peace as the general ceasefire and coddling the aggressor who has rejected Trump's
ceasefire proposals both on the general ceasefire and on the Black Sea ceasefire, is exactly the wrong way to achieve a durable peace.
NEWTON: The words you're speaking right now, you know, have been spoken by European leaders, likely most stridently, in the last few weeks. Donald
Trump isn't listening.
HERBST: Well, he listens a little bit. That's why, you know, two and three weeks ago he said, "I'm getting pissed at Putin," although he did nothing,
and I think that's why he issued the Truth Social post today, which was a positive. But even this positive shows that when Zelenskyy dares to speak
the truth, Trump truly slams him. When Putin murders civilians with ballistic missiles, he has merely corrected or slightly chastised. That's a
problem.
NEWTON: But in the end to Russia, it is all words. I've been more strident with my children when they were in preschool. This isn't leading to any
different actions. So the main issue is here, if the United States walks away from this negotiation, as they seem prepared to do now, they've said
they're prepared to do it, do you believe that it is inevitable that a pause of military aid and intelligence from the United States to Ukraine
will stop?
HERBST: I am not sure about this. The notion of walking away is ambiguous. Most people interpret it, you might say, in a Pontius Pilate fashion, of
washing his hands of everything, which means not only stopping negotiations, but stopping American assistance to Ukraine. That would mean
that Trump is essentially aiding Putin in taking over Ukraine, and that would be a disaster, obviously not just for Ukraine, but for the United
States and for President Trump's legacy as a statesman.
This is not peace through strength. This is peace efforts by coddling the dictator, which lead to no peace whatsoever, and there are people in
Trump's --
NEWTON: But do you believe --
HERBST: I'm sorry.
NEWTON: Go ahead, go ahead.
HERBST: There are people on Trump's team who understand what I just said. Unfortunately, their voices are not the most influential at this point in
Trump world.
NEWTON: Well, Marco Rubio, the Secretary of State has said the exact opposite, even just a few months ago. And yet this is where we are. Do you
believe that is a real risk in the coming weeks?
[16:15:10]
HERBST: Certainly, this is a real risk, but the reason why I am not persuaded this is -- that it will play out in this truly dreadful fashion,
including for the United States is that Trump is on record is saying he can achieve a durable peace which ensures Ukraine's survival, and if he were to
do what people fear he will do, what he has suggested he may do, he would produce the exact opposite outcome and he would look like Putin's chump and
he obviously does not want to be anyone's chump.
NEWTON: How realistic is it if he does go down that road for Europe to take up the mantle here, supply Ukraine materially in a robust way, even as
President Trump may even not just, you know, side with Russia rhetorically, but perhaps even crucially, drop U.S. sanctions against Russia.
HERBST: Well, this seems to be a course he is heading on, on dropping sanctions. But one, there are some legal issues in the United States
because congressional action has endorsed sanctions. So that's not something Trump can simply do with a presidential directive, I don't
believe. But also the Europeans won't go along with it, those sanctions will remain in place. So there is that.
But even worse, of course, Trump could forbid the Europeans from providing American weapons that they have that they paid for to Ukraine. But again,
to do that is to make himself an active accomplice in Putin's aggression. And again, that's a truly bad look for the supposed leader of the free
world.
NEWTON: It's a bad look, but even if you take the rhetoric that's been going on in China, they've certainly been trolling him. He has not said
anything in the slightest. I am not sure how much he cares. How well prepared do you believe Europe is for this eventuality right now? And
again, I say both rhetorically and materially, we have no indication that President Trump is ready to engage with Europe on this.
HERBST: Well, we've seen the administration reach out in the past week or so to Europe, not necessarily pushing an agenda that I think suits American
interests, but they've been reaching out. But here is the thing: The brightest spot in this rather gloomy picture over the past two or three
months has been the way Europe has truly stepped up.
Now, they can't replace the United States, especially with arms, but they can do a fair amount to make up for a United States absence.
Russia's military position is far weaker than the naive advisors around Trump pushing all the wrong policies think, and it is conceivable that the
aid Europe instead of the United States provides can give Ukraine enough so that those weaknesses on the Russian side prove to be fateful.
Now, I can't guarantee that, but that is not a pipe dream.
NEWTON: Ambassador Herbst, grateful for your time. Appreciate it. Thanks so much.
HERBST: Thank you very much. I appreciate you having me on, as always.
NEWTON: Now, the value of Donald Trump's meme coin surged on Wednesday after top investors were promised a private dinner with the President.
According to the online announcement, the dinner will take place next month at Trump's golf club near Washington, D.C. The top 220 Trump coin investors
are invited, and the top 25 will be offered, "an ultra-exclusive VIP reception" with the President.
Now, the fine print says the President might not be able to attend. Yes, there might be some national or international emergency that he cannot.
Stephen Collinson is in Washington for us. Look, Stephen, you're going to pardon my ignorance here, but there is no law against this. Is it all just
informal? The President has the right to do this. I mean, in some circles they would call this self-dealing.
STEPHEN COLLINSON, CNN POLITICS SENIOR REPORTER: Yes, what it looks like he is doing is using the trappings of the presidency to boost an investment in
which he and his sons apparently have millions of dollars' worth bound up in value of this meme coin. So that is -- it looks like, honestly, it looks
like corruption at its most basic form.
What we have seen since Trump got back into the White House is that he has dismantled many of the ethics laws that have been put in place by Congress
and previous White Houses, the rules and regulations that they've adopted ever since the Watergate scandal involving President Richard Nixon.
So the President, of course, is essentially in many ways above, many of these laws because he is the chief law enforcement officer of the country.
He had a very favorable ruling from the Supreme Court, you'll remember, that came out of one of his criminal cases that showed that the President
has substantial immunity from prosecution for official acts in office. It is not clear that that covers this particular venture, which looks like a
private business venture.
[16:20:10]
But Trump basically is interpreting all of this as the fact that he has got almost unlimited power and almost complete immunity from prosecution, and
then you might ask, well, even if he wasn't, who would prosecute him? His Justice Department has now basically become an arm of his legal
representation.
So we have an administration with almost no ethics rules and zero observance.
NEWTON: You know, some people, and just let me play devil's advocate here for a second. You know, there has been criticism, even of Democratic
presidents, that they gave too much to fundraisers. Right? They'd invite them to the White House. You'll remember the Clinton days where they had
those sleepovers? How is this different if you think it is? And also, Stephen, do you worry that Democratic or Republican future presidents will
really push the limits on this in the future?
COLLINSON: Well, yes. I mean, you're right, that a lot of presidents, Democrats among them, have done a great deal of fundraising using the
trappings of the presidency themselves. Of course, wherever the President goes, paying a million dollars to meet a President and sit in a very
private fundraiser is a sought after ticket. I've been to many of these fundraising events with President Obama, for example; you know, President
George W. Bush. That is above board because what they're doing is they're raising money for their political committees.
You might argue that that shows how in many ways corrupt the U.S. political system is and is in hock to people with money. What Trump is doing here, of
course, is raising money for his own personal wealth and that is a big difference although I don't think the White House really sees it that way
at all.
To your other point, yes, I think it is a danger that future presidents, not just in this area, but in almost every area that Trump is operating in,
are going to take advantage of the latitude that he has created for himself. He is interpreting presidential power in the most expansive way
that we've seen in in the modern age, it is very difficult to think that a future Democratic president is not going to come in and take some advantage
of that, even if, and I assume a future campaign will be all about, well, we need to restore the rulings and get rid of corruption and restore
dignity to the White House.
Those -- you know, once some of these things have been opened up, unless Congress actually acts to close them down, it is very likely that a future
president will try and use some of that room that Trump has created.
NEWTON: Yes, and that's what I keep thinking about in terms of this setting a precedent. It doesn't matter if it is a Republican or a Democratic
president to come.
Stephen Collinson, always grateful. Thanks so much. Good to see you.
COLLINSON: Thanks.
NEWTON: Now cuts in federal funding at the United States' top health agencies have put research into Alzheimer's disease in limbo.
CNN health reporter, Jacqueline Howard says it has researchers and caregivers sounding the alarm.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JACQUELINE HOWARD, CNN HEALTH REPORTER: Many researchers in the Alzheimer's space are on edge. There is a lot of uncertainty out there. Some have not
yet heard whether their funding will be renewed. Their biggest fear is possibly having to end clinical trials early due to a lack in funding.
Now, what we do know is that in March, NIH halted funding for 14 of the 35 Alzheimer's disease research centers here in the United States. That's
about $65 million in funding and we are being told that it is at those centers where some research is currently left in limbo.
One scientist at Stanford told me that his team had to hold off on starting any new Alzheimer's studies, because they are still waiting to see whether
their funding will be renewed. They were expecting a decision around February. Their funding completely ran out about three weeks ago.
Another scientist based in Florida told me that his team has developed an app that can assess your risk for Alzheimer's, but it may never be released
to the public because he is also waiting to see whether funding will be renewed. And separately, just this week, the National Institutes of Health
put out a policy notice saying that it will pull medical research funding from universities with diversity and inclusion programs and any boycotts of
Israeli companies. That appears to be a blanket guideline. The policy says its doing this because doing those two things could be a violation of
federal anti-discriminatory law.
This also has Alzheimer's scientists on edge because if their institutions are penalized under this policy, they could see their funding cut off.
Keep in mind, NIH is the largest public funder of biomedical research in the world. So any move the NIH makes will have sweeping consequences.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
NEWTON: Thanks, Jacqueline Howard for that.
[16:25:01]
Pope Francis worked to elevate the role of women in the modern Catholic Church. Isa Soares reports on what the Pope achieved and what advocates say
still needs to be done.
We will have that after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
NEWTON: Hello, I'm Paula Newton and there's more QUEST MEANS BUSINESS in a moment when Alphabet has released its quarterly earnings, we will break
them down with our Clare Duffy. And good manners cost nothing, that's the old saying, right? OpenAI CEO Sam Altman says when it comes to ChatGPT,
saying please and thank you can actually cost millions of dollars. Before that, though, these are the headlines this hour.
In the aftermath of new Russian strikes on Kyiv, U.S. President Donald Trump says he still believes his Russian counterpart is serious about a
peace deal. Meantime, a U.S. official says Special Envoy Steve Witkoff is expected to meet Vladimir Putin in Russia on Friday.
A federal judge is blocking parts of an executive order signed by President Donald Trump to make changes to voter requirements in the United States.
Mr. Trump had sought to require proof of citizenship on federal voter registration forms. The judge says that Congress and the States have the
authority to regulate federal elections, not the President.
Pakistan has suspended trade with India as tensions escalate after a militant attack in Indian-controlled Kashmir that left 26 people dead, all
but one of the victims were Indian. India is accusing Pakistan of supporting terrorist groups in the region and has closed a key border
crossing. Pakistan denies any involvement.
The Vatican says 50 heads of state and 10 reigning monarchs plan to attend the funeral of Pope Francis on Saturday. His body is now lying in state at
Saint Peter's Basilica. The funeral will be held mostly outside in Saint Peter's Square, in front of tens of thousands of mourners.
The Vatican says the burial will take place before a select group of poor and needy individuals. The Holy See writing: "The poor have a privileged
place in the heart of God."
Now the Pope's choice of a final resting place reflects his deep reverence for the Virgin Mary, whom he would often turn to, he says, for comfort and
guidance. As Isa Soares reports, the Pope was a reformer who elevated the role of women in the church. His efforts helped crack that so-called glass
ceiling, though of course, significant barriers remain.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ISA SOARES, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR AND CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In the church's seat of power, where the patriarchy reigns, women icons loom
large. But none was more important to Pope Francis than this one. The Virgin Mary in the Basilica di Santa Maria Maggiore, which he visited more
than a hundred times. And as in life, his death will be at her feet. This his final resting place.
Unlike those before him, the Pope fought to elevate women, seeking their worth within the Vatican.
When women are in charge, things work, he said just days before he died. During his 12-year papacy, Francis appointed around 20 women to positions
of authority in the Vatican. That, while perhaps slow progress, is simply unprecedented in a male dominated church.
Most recently France has made history when he appointed Sister Simone Brambilla as the first female prefect in the church and the Roman curia.
Sister Nathalie Becquart was elected by Pope Francis in 2021 as the undersecretary to the Synod of Bishops, a body tasked with church reform.
The first woman to hold the post and have voting rights.
NATHALIE BECQUART, UNDERSECRETARY, GENERAL SECRETARIAT OF SYNOD OF BISHOPS ROME: Well, I think it was a very symbolic gesture from Pope Francis
appointed me as a woman in this role. Before it has always been a bishop, not because women are better, but because when we are together as men and
women, usually we work better. We take better decisions.
SOARES: But while Francis broke with tradition, formally allowing women to read from the gospel during mass, act as altar servers and distribute
communion, he made it clear repeatedly that ordaining women as priests was off limits.
PROTESTERS: Women can be priests. Don't kick the can.
SOARES (voice-over): Kate McElwee leads the Women's Ordination Conference, which calls for gender equality in the Catholic Church.
KATE MCELWEE, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, WOMEN'S ORDINATION CONFERENCE: Pope Francis's appointments of women to high positions within the Vatican is
extremely significant. It really helps change the culture within the Vatican, and so I hope that it starts to ask more questions than it
answers, like, why can't women then go into the conclave? Why are women excluded from this?
SOARES: How do you make sense of that?
MCELWEE: I would say that Pope Francis unlocked the doors, but didn't quite open the doors for women.
SOARES (voice-over): But they will keep on knocking. A major challenge, no doubt, for the next head of the Catholic Church.
Isa Soares CNN, Rome.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
NEWTON: Now to a somber moment as sirens sounded across Israel for Holocaust Remembrance Day.
People stopped whatever they were doing to honor the six million Jews murdered by Nazi Germany during World War II and the families that are, of
course, forever scarred by those horrors.
Now honoring the victims of the Holocaust is very personal for our senior legal analyst Elie Honig, who bears the name of his paternal grandfather, a
Polish Jew who lost most of his family to the Holocaust. The other Elie Honig barely survived the Nazi concentration camps. There is also a third
man who shares their unusual name, and his family also shares much of the heartbreak and horrors of the Holocaust.
CNN's Elie Honig has the story of Dr. Elie Honig.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: At this point, you are declared a fugitive.
DR. ELIE HONIG, HOLOCAUST SURVIVOR: I'm declared a fugitive.
E. HONIG: A fugitive from who exactly?
DR. HONIG: From the Germans that occupied.
E. HONIG (voice-over): At just 20 days old in November of 1942, Elie Honig was a fugitive from the Nazis, along with his mother and two sisters.
Why would the Nazis have been so possessed with finding a woman and her three children?
DR. HONIG: Because every single person was supposed to be annihilated.
E. HONIG (voice-over): I have lived my whole life thinking I was the only Elie Honig. And then I met Dr. Elie Honig, an 82-year-old Holocaust
survivor.
[16:35:03]
DR. HONIG: Well, my grandson called me up and said, do you know an Elie Honig? I said, I heard the name, but I have no idea who he is. Why not try
to contact you? And we have been talking ever since.
E. HONIG: Dr. Honig initially thought we might be related. We aren't, but we bonded over a shared connection to the Holocaust. I was named after my
grandfather. His Hebrew name was Eliezer Honig, a Nazi concentration camp survivor and a man I never met.
Dr. Honig was born in Nazi-occupied France during the Holocaust. Most of his family were murdered by the Nazis, including his father.
How many of your family members ended up at Auschwitz?
DR. HONIG: Ten, and nine perished there.
E. HONIG (voice-over): Honig was already being hunted by the Nazis before he was born, but he, his sisters, and his mother lived because one woman
made it her mission to help them survive.
DR. HONIG: She swore to herself that she would do whatever she could to save us, and she enlisted her entire family.
E. HONIG: Madeleine Counord was a Christian woman who taught kindergarten to Dr. Honig's older sisters. Shortly after he was born, Counord directed
her 12-year-old niece to sneak Honig and his mother out of the hospital and into hiding.
DR. HONIG: I was carried in a bag, literally in a bag. I was 20 days old, whatever, a newborn practically. They placed me in a house where there was
another newborn, so that if there's any crying, there wouldn't be any suspicion. And then they took me from there to Angers, and I was in an
orphanage run by Dr. Gigon (PH). I don't know where. I don't have more information. I wish I did, but I don't know.
E. HONIG: In order to protect him, Honig was given a French alias, Michel. His mother and sisters were hidden in different locations from him, so the
entire family was separated for the duration of the war.
How long a period of time did this network of your French Christian neighbors protect you as a newborn?
DR. HONIG: I would say 19 months.
E. HONIG: If any of the French Christian neighbors who helped you and your family survive had been caught harboring you, helping you, by the Nazis,
what would have happened to them?
DR. HONIG: They would have been brought to concentration camp. They wouldn't have survived. I think of the bravery of all of them. And I asked
myself many times over the years, what would I have done had I been in their place? I don't have an answer. I don't know what I would have done. I
just think to myself, I hope I would have done an honorable thing, but I cannot.
E. HONIG (voice-over): Because of their bravery, Dr. Honig survived and went on to lead a beautiful life, becoming a celebrated physics professor.
He also married, had four children, and now he has five grandchildren.
Is there anything that you hope future generations would take from your story or from the story of the people who saved you?
DR. HONIG: I would like them to recognize how difficult it is, but how important it is to rise above a crowd, to do what's right, to do what you
know in your heart is right, even though it is difficult.
How do you act honorably? How do you pass that down, so that you can look yourself in the mirror and said, I did the right thing?
(END VIDEOTAPE)
NEWTON: And our thanks to Elie for bringing us that important story. We will be right back in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:41:39]
NEWTON: So once numbering in the millions, the African penguin is essential for sustaining coastal ecosystems. But the species is now on the brink of
extinction.
Today, on CNN's series "Call to Earth," we visit Cape Town, where scientists and volunteers are working together to save the unique and
charismatic bird.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ZAIN ASHER, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: On a blustery summer morning along South Africa's Western Cape.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You guys ready?
ASHER: A celebratory offering to the sea.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: One, two, three. Go.
ASHER: These African penguins are rejoining their colony and returning to the chilly waters of the southern Atlantic Ocean. The reunion is a win for
the scientists and volunteers at SANCCOB, the Southern African Foundation for the Conservation of Coastal Birds, and a small victory that's becoming
as rare as the penguins themselves.
JADE SOOKHOO, REHABILITATION MANAGER, SANCCOB: Rehabilitation for the African penguin is very important at this stage. The numbers are dwindling.
We are struggling a lot with the population decline in the wild.
ASHER: Dire warnings from scientists predict the African penguin could face extinction within the next 10 years. A century ago, their numbers had
reached more than a million. Today, an estimated 99 percent of them are gone.
DR. DAVID ROBERTS, CLINICAL VETERINARIAN, SANCCOB: So for the last seven years, while I've been working at SANCCOB, the numbers of patients every
year have actually declined. And that's because there not as many penguins in the wild anymore.
ASHER: Doctor David Roberts says that most of his surgical work is the result of trauma injuries, which can be caused by anything from pollution
to plastic entanglement. But he says more often than not the injuries are the result of a predator's bite.
ROBERTS: We did a procedure on an African penguin. Our number for him here is AP 200. He's the 200th penguin that's come in this year. And he was
admitted with a wound on his toe. We're not sure what's caused it. Often we don't know what happened in the wild. But what happened was the end of the
toe had a large wound on it and the nail bed had become infected. The nail had actually come off already, and he had a bit of a bone infection there
as well.
ASHER: In addition to surgeries, SANCCOB works in many other ways to safeguard the penguins. The work includes rearing baby chicks and providing
care for up to 500 wounded penguins at a time inside a world class rehabilitation center. It's a place where many injured or struggling birds
can get their sea legs back.
SOOKHOO: We are watching these birds every day, coming in with quite severe trauma, with injuries, with emaciation problems. They are struggling a lot
out in the wild.
ASHER: Gavin Petersen is a seabird ranger at the Stony Point Penguin Colony in Bettys Bay. He says his job is to ensure every penguin has a fighting
chance at surviving in the wild.
GAVIN PETERSEN, PENGUIN AND SEABIRD RANGER, SANCCOB: There's not a lot of fish around for them. Nowadays, you see lesser birds, you have lesser nests
occupied with birds in this way. Also, global warming is also playing a bigger role.
ASHER: In March, conservationists and the commercial fishing industry reached a deal to create six no fishing zones around penguin breeding
colonies along the south and west coastlines.
[16:45:08]
It's a major step forward for people like rehabilitation manager Jade Sookhoo, who work every day to save these iconic and often charismatic
seabirds.
SOOKHOO: My hope for the future is that we can turn the tide and to try and help these birds as much as possible. They're such a unique species.
They've got such character. It is the only species that lives under the African sun. A lot of people, when you say penguin, they'd picture icebergs
and snow. But this penguin lives on the beach. They thrive in the heat. They thrive in the summer. And it would be really sad to see such a
beautiful and magical species just go extinct.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
NEWTON: They are indeed magical. Let us know what you're doing to answer the call with the hashtag "Call to Earth."
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
NEWTON: Google's parent company posted stronger than expected first quarter revenue, bringing in more than $90 billion. Its shares have now jumped in
after-hours trade. The company was back in court today, though, to determine what changes it will have to make now that a judge has ruled it
does in fact have an online search monopoly.
OpenAI has a possible solution. It would apparently be open to buying Google's Chrome Web browser. Now, an OpenAI executive made that statement
this week while testifying as part of Google's antitrust trial.
Clare Duffy is here to break it all down.
So we start with these results. I mean, legally, Google is in trouble. And it's not just in the search business. It's also in the ad business. It's
got problems with the way it's managed its app store. How could these cases transform the company in the next quarter, even though these results are
really stellar?
CLARE DUFFY, CNN BUSINESS WRITER: Yes, Paula, I think that's the question for Google here. These are very strong, stronger than expected results. But
there is a lot of uncertainty heading into the rest of this year. And I'll get to the antitrust cases in just a minute, but even when we talk about
something like tariffs and all of the economic uncertainty that is being caused because of those policies, Google's business depends on online
advertisers.
And we know that when there is uncertainty around the economy, lots of brands will pull back on their online advertising. So I think that is a big
question heading into the rest of this year. And then of course you have these three antitrust cases. Most recently, Google was found to be a
monopoly by a federal judge in the online advertising business.
[16:50:08]
And as you said, it is back in court now in the remedies hearing over the judge's finding that Google is also a monopoly in the online search
business.
I think when you bring these three cases together and look at the kinds of changes that Google could have to make, which in the case of its search
business, could include the government's request that it sell off its Chrome browser, it could mean both big changes in terms of how Google
operates. If Google has to sell off its Chrome browser, that is going to be big changes to its online advertising business if f customers aren't
directed to its search engine in quite the same way. And I think it could also mean really big changes in terms of how we all access and operate on
the internet.
NEWTON: Yes, and I think that's my next question. Right? You're kind of wondering what this will look like for both consumers and competitors now
that, as you say, the courts want those remedies. I mean, look at already what's happened, right? OpenAI says, oh, we'll buy Chrome. We'll take it
off your hands if you have to sell it.
DUFFY: I mean, I can't imagine Google is going to fight so hard to have to avoid selling its Chrome browser to OpenAI. OpenAI poses such a huge
competition to Google in the search business. There's a lot of concern that Google is losing search, you know, traffic to OpenAI's ChatGPT. So I think
that is probably a far off possibility, but I think it does get at the types of changes that we could see as a result of these antitrust cases.
Of course, we could see another owner of the Chrome browser if Google is forced to sell that off, although the company is going to be appealing that
case in terms of the online advertising case, I think it's less likely that you're going to see a breakup in that case. But I think we could see big
changes in terms of how Google is forced to operate in that space. For example, it could be forced to share more information about, you know, how
much it's pricing advertising, those sorts of things.
And so I think for consumers, I mean, we talk about where we find information. We think about the way that we see ads displayed across the
entire internet. Lots of these things could change because of these Google antitrust cases.
NEWTON: And not to mention because of A.I.
Clare Duffy, doing a great job of breaking it all down for us. Really appreciate it.
Now, OK, you have probably heard the old phrase, right? Good manners, they don't cost a thing. That's not quite true apparently for OpenAI. CEO Sam
Altman says people saying please and thank you to its chatbot cost the company tens of millions of dollars. And here's why. Generating additional
and more detailed replies uses more computing power. And for, in fact, more energy like as if it uses enough energy.
For example, here's what happened when we asked ChatGPT as plainly as possible, right, to tell us the capital of France. And here is the much
longer and more detailed response when we did it, oh, so politely.
Lance Ulanoff is the editor at large of TechRadar. He joins me now from New York.
Listen, guilty as charged, right? I feel so ridiculous now why I was ever putting in thank you. I don't think I ever put in thank you. I definitely
put in please. You know, is this -- they need a public service announcement at this point that look, because let's face the facts, it's not just
costing them more because of energy, it's costing the environment more.
LANCE ULANOFF, EDITOR AT LARGE, TECHRADAR: Right. Well, let's be fair to people that we have been anthropomorphizing things, all kinds of things our
whole lives. Right? And like if you bring a Roomba into your house don't you start calling it a, you know, a he or she. You start to treat it like
it's a living thing. Anything with even a smidgen of intelligence, we just start to treat as if it's human.
And so, of course, A.I.'s, you know, they're conversation bots and they've been trained to converse with us the way other people do. They always know
what word is going to come next. But of course, they're not human. We can't help ourselves. We can't help ourselves with being polite. You know, maybe
two-thirds of everybody who's using these chatbots right now is automatically being polite.
And we have found that you do get different answers based on how you interact with it. But I think that has a lot to do, again, with its
training. It doesn't mean it's any more human. So yes, there is a big concern, a growing concern about the amount of energy these A.I. systems
are using. Every time we have one of those big meme moments, I don't know if you saw a few weeks back, we were all making action figures, which
looked amazing.
You put it prompted, you made an action figure of yourself. We all did it. But we made a joke in my house that every time you do that, you kill a
tree. Now, that's not true. That's not exactly what's happening. But we don't really take into account every interaction is an energy cycle, is
pulling energy from the system, and more and more people are using A.I. so I'm not sure what the public service announcement should be beyond what
we're saying here.
[16:55:06]
NEWTON: Well, but, it does make a point and it makes a point about scarcity, right? There is scarcity in A.I., and it's not just about chips,
but it has to do as much with how rapidly this technology is expanding and how we as users and the companies adapt.
Where do you see that going? Because, you know, I make the point about these chatbots. People are having relationships with these chatbots. You're
not going to be economical with words when you're doing that.
ULANOFF: No. And here's the thing. There is a -- there's a couple of paths that we have with A.I., right? We have the fun path, the meme path to
create silly things path. And then we have the utility path. And the utility path is the most important path where A.I. can do things that we
can't do, figure out things that we can't figure out. Even those conversations you talk about where people are sort of having these longer
conversations, using it as a therapist.
There's actually a value in that if you can get some comfort from that, and maybe you don't have to visit your therapist right that moment because you
just need to calm down a little bit. That's actually helpful. But there's also science, you know, figuring out, you know, cancer cures that we can't
do on our own, or discovering that someone has cancer because it can look at that scan in a way that many doctors possibly can't.
Those things will continue to grow, and it's important that we support those things and maybe not undermine them by doing so many nonsensical
things with A.I. How we find that path I'm not entirely sure.
NEWTON: See, so giving me the color of a door and how it would look if I painted the door on my house, I could take it. I got to try and forget some
of that perhaps when it gets to scarcity. I'm not sure.
Lance, listen, I only have about 40 seconds left here, but I do want to ask you something, because it's been something so many people are curious
about, and it leads from -- onto from our other story. Is search dead? Because I do not use search as much as I used to.
ULANOFF: Oh, my gosh, I have 20 seconds to tell you. Well, it is definitely, A.I. has fundamentally changed the search game. People see the
A.I. overview at the top of their Google result. They see that, they click or they get the answer they want. They're done. The deep dive on search is
going away so faster than I can say A.I.
NEWTON: And you just said A.I. and you did it in 30 seconds or less. And I knew you could do it. So there we are. Listen, I've learned so much. Thank
you. I say it in person.
ULANOFF: Pleasure.
NEWTON: Perhaps not to ChatGPT from now on. Thanks again.
And that is QUEST MEANS BUSINESS on a day when the markets actually went up. I'm Paula Newton in New York. "THE LEAD WITH JAKE TAPPER" is next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
END
