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India Launches Military Operation Against Pakistan. Aired 5-5:26p ET

Aired May 06, 2025 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[17:00:47]

RICHARD QUEST, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Breaking news at this hour. India says it has launched a military operation against Pakistan.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

QUEST: Those are the explosions that you're going to hear. You can't see the video necessarily, but you can certainly hear what happened. India says

it's targeting terrorist infrastructure in both Pakistan and Pakistan- administered Kashmir. Whichever way you look at this, it's a major escalation after a terror attack on tourists Indian-administered. Indian-

administered Kashmir left 26 people dead. The Pakistani military says it will respond at a time and place of its choosing.

Sajjan Gohel is the International Security Director at the Asia Pacific Foundation. Let me before -- let me just read you the statement, and then

you can follow on with the interpretation of it.

India's Defense Ministry says, these steps come in the wake of the Babak- Pahalgam terrorist attack in which 25 Indians and one Nepalese citizen was murdered, forgive me looking down reading. Our actions have been focus

measured a non-escalatory in nature and goes on to define that. No Pakistani military facilities have been targeted, India's demonstrated, et

cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

Is this likely to be the telegraphing of that? Is that likely to be accepted by the Pakistani side?

SAJJAN GOHEL, INTERNATIONAL SECURITY DIRECTOR, ASIA PACIFIC FOUNDATION: Well, Richard, I suspect that the Pakistani military will be under huge

pressure to be seen to react in some way because, keep in mind that Pakistan is a somewhat fragile democracy. It is a democracy where the

military has overbearing influence, and they've often projected themselves as the guardians of the country.

Now, the guardians so-called have suddenly taken a massive hit in terms of their authority. So there will be huge expectation for them to react, and

that's where there could be a potential escalation here. For India, based on what you read out, it seems that Operation Sindoor, as they've called

it, that is the end of it for them. The question is now how Pakistan reacts.

QUEST: How do you think they will?

GOHEL: Well, if we go back to what transpired in 2019 with the Balakot airstrike, Pakistan then did react several days later by sending its

fighter planes, including, controversially an F-16, which it wasn't supposed to, based on the agreement with America. They used that to target

India. And then, the whole situation looked very tense because an Indian pilot ended up being taken hostage by Pakistan. He was eventually released.

So we hope we don't get into a situation like that again, where the situation continues to spiral. And I think where the United States is

potentially going to put huge pressure on Pakistan not to escalate, as is China and potentially some other countries like Saudi Arabia and the UAE.

QUEST: So let's just look at this from the Pakistani side for a second. The prime minister, Shahbaz Sharif, how much pressure, been in office just over

a year, how much pressure is he going to be under -- they're going to be under, on the response? But at the same time, their own precarious position

at home, as you just said, makes a response necessary, proportionate but difficult.

GOHEL: Shahbaz Sharif is going to ultimately have to sanction whatever the military tell him to do. So the person that's really going to be key here,

Richard, is the Pakistan Chief of Army Staff, Asim Munir. And keep in mind that, in many ways, he has contributed to this escalation because he gave a

very fiery speech just a few days before the attack, the terrorist attack in Jammu and Kashmir, in which he talked about Kashmir being part of

Pakistan's jugular vein. And in many ways, that was interpreted as a kind of warning to India that Pakistan seeks to ramp up tensions.

[17:05:01]

So Asim Munir is the key. He will decide what transpires. Shahbaz Sharif will literally just rubberstamp that.

QUEST: On either side, is there -- are there anybody -- is there anyone who is sort of trying to find the middle ground of compromise here?

GOHEL: At the moment, I don't think there is any chance of compromise between India, Pakistan directly. The key, Richard, has always been that

there are these terrorist camps in Pakistan, in Pakistan-administered Kashmir and elsewhere that have churned out extremists, that have carried

out terrorist attacks India. They also aided the Taliban in Afghanistan, and were also tied to other groups like al-Qaeda.

And that infrastructure has never really been fully dismantled. If Pakistan is ultimately going to be able to make any headway, that's the key.

QUEST: Stay with me, sir, as always. I need you sitting next to me to help you understand these very complex things. But I've also got Aparna Pande,

the Research Fellow at the Hudson Institute.

The putting together of it all, viewers watching in other parts of the world. The heart will sink, and the worry and the blood pressure will rise,

and people will naturally be saying as, you know, oh, here we go again. Can't these two just, to quote the famous saying, can't they just get

along, can't they just sort it out?

It's not an unreasonable thought but it's a very difficult one to execute.

APARNA PANDE, RESEARCH FELLOW, HUDSON INSTITUTE: Yes, it is. And this film has been playing since 1989 for the last 35-36 years. There's a terror

attack inside India. It is almost always tied to a terror group on outfit inside Pakistan. There's an escalation. Historically India used to keep

strategic restraint and not respond, and the international community would come in, apply pressure on both countries and they would back off.

India has changed that since 2016 because from the Indian point of view, nothing is happening and the international community is not applying enough

pressure on Pakistan. And Pakistan is not getting rid of its terror infrastructure. So India has decided to -- sort of has decided that it

needs a punitive response each time, but one that is not escalatory.

QUEST: Very difficult. I mean that is, you know, because -- and I realize the environment is completely different, completely different. But I sort

of feel similarities with say for example when Israel and Iraq, Iran attacked each other, in the sense that you knew what each side was doing,

you knew the telegraphing that was taking place, and you hoped to God that they didn't miscalculate on either side so that there would be massive

escalation. Is that where we are now?

PANDE: So it will all depend, Richard, on how Pakistan responds. India has targeted only the terror camps, sort of, you know, the nine sites, you

know, sort of Bahawalpur, Murit K. They are the sites of Lashkar-e-Taiba, Jaish-e-Mohammed, all the terror outfits.

It has not targeted any other civilian or any military target. It has simply stuck to terror camps, and the headquarters of these terror groups.

If Pakistan responds like it did in 2019, then it will not escalate. But if Pakistan responds differently then, you know, sort of we will sort of, you

know, we don't know. It can escalate.

Within -- I mean, however much India may want to calibrate, it is very difficult to calibrate an escalation between nuclear-armed neighbors.

QUEST: Yes. I'm grateful you put it in those terms. Thank you. Stay with me as well. The journalist, Vedika Sudhir, is with me on the phone from New

Delhi.

I bet the mood -- well, first of all, let's start with the mood there tonight.

VEDIKA SUDHIR, JOURNALIST: Well, Richard, what we're hearing now is that the attacks have taken place, the assault from the Indian side. In fact, on

Twitter, the Indian army on the official page had said about an hour back and I quote them here, ready to strike, train to win. And then about 40

minutes back, they've again said justice is served, Jai Hind, which is a way of talking about healing India.

[17:10:01]

Now, as you said earlier, strikes were expected because there's a lot of rhetoric over the last few days by the Indian government, by the people, by

the media here where they were expecting attacks or force to take place. If you remember, in 2016 and 2019 as well, when there were terror attacks

India. The Indian government and the Indian military did strike back within 11 to 13 days.

So an assault of some sort was expected from the Indian side, and it's happened in the dead of night now. And as you can see, there are also

visuals coming in from the other side where you do see explosions taking place. At least the audio footage can be heard now.

What does this really mean for India and Pakistan? Both sides have been upping the ante. They've been taking on each other verbally. And we have to

see how Pakistan now responds beyond talking about this strike.

In the dead of night, India has struck Pakistan but they have said that there has been no harm done to any military establishment. They have said

this is just on the terror groups and the outfits really on the other side of the border.

QUEST: And if you look at the government in New Delhi, what is domestically the political calculation that the prime minister will be putting forward?

SUDHIR: Well, you know, straight after this terror attack that took place an Indian-administered Kashmir last month, the prime minister came out and

promised. And usually he speaks in the first language here India, which is Hindi, to his people, that he vowed to avenge the attack that took place

India-administered Kashmir.

He spoke in English and his message was loud and clear about two weeks back when he said that they would pursue these people to be ends of earth. And

that is something that he promised to walk the talk over. He also had his defense minister come out about two days ago and promise to a crowd in a

state in India stating that what they want, quote unquote, without going into any further explanations will happen. So the rhetoric was there for a

while.

Now, what does this mean for the Indian government like you asked? Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi in 2019 went ahead and took a huge step in

Kashmir, which was to take away the special status that Kashmir has. And at that point, he promised to bring peace to the valley.

And it was upon him this huge responsibility now, about 15 days after this terror attack, Richard, to make sure that he walked the talk on it because

it was a huge step that he had taken domestically about five years back.

QUEST: Grateful for you. Vedika, thank you. We'll talk more. And I'll have more on the breaking news. I'll update you and we'll look at the military

and the political implications, obviously, as one of our guests just said a moment or two ago. Whenever you have two nuclear powers firing at each

other, there's always grave cause for concern, and no more so than tonight.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:15:47]

QUEST: Please allow me to update you with the latest news tonight. India says it has launched a military operation against Pakistan.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

QUEST: Those are the kinds of explosions you hear in the video from the scene. India says it was targeting terrorist infrastructure in both

Pakistan itself and Pakistan-administered Kashmir. It's a major escalation after the terror attack on tourists Indian-administered Kashmir left 26

people dead.

The Pakistani military says it will respond at the time and place of its choosing. The words they're using are this heinous provocation will not go

unanswered. Sajjan Gohel is with me, the International Security Director at the Asia Pacific Foundation and Aparna Pande, Research Fellow at the Hudson

Institute. In a moment we'll hear from Nic Robertson who's also there.

I just want to go to Sajjan first. The attack, the terrorist attack, what do we know about who was behind it? The original attack, which the Indians

describe as the barbaric Pahalgam terrorist attack in which 25 Indians and one Nepalese citizen was murdered, what do we know about who was behind it?

GOHEL: Well, the group that claimed responsibility, Richard, went by the name of the Resistance Front. Now that is seem to be an alias, an offshoot

of the Lashkar-e-Taiba, the terrorist group that carried out the 2008 Mumbai siege attacks. And if you look at the attack itself, these

individuals were very well-trained. They had military grade equipment. They separated the men from the women and children. They carried out the

killings execution style.

And it was very much seen to be a very well-planned coordinated attack. I thought what was interesting when you were speaking to Aparna just now, she

mentioned that one of the airstrikes targeted Murad K, which is the base of operations for the Lashkar-e-Taiba. So the implication is very clear that

India is blaming the Lashkar-e-Taiba for the attack that took place on 22nd of April.

QUEST: With that in mind, how do we move back? I mean, I'm always constantly looking at not sort of what's just happened but what might

happen next, and how do we prevent this from getting that much worse. Who has the ability to prevent it? Or as India and Pakistan does this deadly

dance of two step, the military two step, is that the best we can hope for?

Oh, sorry. Sajjan, to you first. And then onwards, yes. Sajjan, to you first.

GOHEL: Well, the key, Richard, is the offering and what is going to now take place because Pakistan seems to be under considerable pressure to

react, and we need to watch what their chief of army staff, Asim Munir, has to say.

You'd mentioned earlier about the prime minister of Pakistan, Shahbaz Sharif, but he ultimately is not going to be the key in what transpires

next. Pakistan is still heavily-influenced by its armed forces. And in many ways, this attack undermines their reputation within Pakistan. So they will

be under pressure to react.

But then we are talking about an escalation here that will not necessarily stop soon. So there's going to be a huge expectation for Pakistan to react,

but an equal expectation by international partners like the US, China, the UAE and Saudi Arabia to try and curtail Pakistan from escalating the

situation.

QUEST: Aparna, stay with me, both of you. Aparna, I want you to listen to President Trump. He was just asked about what's just happened in the

situation in Kashmir just moments ago. This is what President Trump said. And we'll come back to you in a second.

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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF UNITED STATES: No, it's a shame. We just heard about it just as we were walking in the doors of the Oval, just heard about

it. I guess people knew something was going to happen based on a little bit of the past.

They've been fighting for a long time. You know, they've been fighting for many decades and centuries actually, if you really think about it. No, I

just hope it ends very quickly.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

QUEST: There's a real upon a feeling there of, oh, here we go. I mean, this is my interpretation, here we go again. Let's just hope it's over quickly.

But that doesn't seem to be, we're going to get our hands dirty here.

PANDE: Richard, no. I mean, sort of the here we go again. I'm sure every capital in the world says that because this has been happening for, in some

ways we can go back to 1947, the number of four wars the two countries have fought. But in connection to the terror attacks and the escalation, it's

about 35 years.

So yes, there is the -- I mean, capitals around the world would like India and Pakistan to move forward to have conversations and to sort of, you

know, and to prevent this from happening. But for sort of, you know, you asked that, the question about, you know, how will this change you sort of,

you know, 2019, when the last attack took place, let's remember two years later in 2021, India,-Pakistan signed a ceasefire agreement and that held

for four years.

The Indian external affairs minister visited Pakistan last year for a conference and a summit. And there was a talk that there is some back

channel conversation going on whether things could improve. Unfortunately, as long as Pakistan keeps that terror infrastructure inside its country,

there will be these attacks. And every time an attack takes place, it is very difficult when we live in a world of social media and populism for any

country not to respond.

And so, India is forced to respond, which then leads to a Pakistani response.

QUEST: Thank you.

PANDE: Hopefully stops at the -- stops at that and there is no further escalation. We just need to sort of hope, you know, enough international

pressure on Pakistan and India sort of leads this not to escalate beyond one, you know, sort of one demonstrative strike by Pakistan after which the

two countries should this time actually have conversations.

QUEST: Aparna and Sajjan, I'm grateful for both of you. Thank you.

Joining me now, Michael Kugelman, South Asia columnist for the Foreign Policy magazine. We've sort of, I guess, we've already determined through

our various contributors and guests that the seriousness of the situation tonight, that this is the last thing anybody wants to see.

And as I understand it, the best hope here, and it is a flaw, is that having now attacked Pakistan does what it says it must do because of the

"heinous activities." But it sort of gets contained within this ambit. Is that realistic?

MICHAEL KUGELMAN, SOUTH ASIA COLUMNIST, FOREIGN POLICY MAGAZINE: The most recent cases where India and Pakistan have had military crises. They have

been relatively brief, and I think you were discussing earlier with your earlier guest that in 2019, India responded to a terrorist attack on its

soil with strikes in Pakistan, and Pakistan responded and there was a brief dogfight between the air forces of the two countries.

But then things wrapped up pretty quickly after that. So my understanding is that Pakistan is in the process of responding right now to India strike.

But I think the question becomes after Pakistan's counter strike, what happens next? And that's where I think the escalation risks could really go

up.

And that's why I think the international mediation will become all the more important --

QUEST: By who?

KUGELMAN: -- at that point.

QUEST: But, Michael, the international mediation by who? Because just listening to President Trump now, admittedly, you know, the Secretary of

State and the new and others in the administration, may get themselves more involved. But the President doesn't sound like he particularly wants to get

involved. So who intermediates this one?

KUGELMAN: Well, I mean, the last India-Pakistan crisis in 2019, you had the first Trump administration in power, and it did intervene quite heavily at

that point. In this case, you know, you're right, it's unclear how the president would feel about this, but the State Department has been very

active already.

Secretary of State Rubio spoke with his counter in both countries some days ago. And just today the State Department spokesperson said that they're

very engaged in talking with both Pakistan and India. But I think that you need to look at other mediators, not just the United States. I think

there's some strong candidates in the Gulf, particularly the Saudis, the Qataris, the Emiratis. They have very strong relations with both India and

Pakistan.

[17:25:10]

They've got a lot of leverage over them because they supply them with a lot of energy and other assistance. And there's a precedent. Sorry, I was just

going to say the Emiratis actually mediated the very border truce that your last guest was talking about back in 2021.

QUEST: And if we look at the roles that they've been playing, mediating and talking, whether it's Gaza, whether it's all these other areas, the Omanis.

So these countries are involved, would you expect them to want to get involved?

KUGELMAN: Well, I would think so just because they've shown a willingness to do so and a comfort level, more so than the United States. I mean,

interestingly, Iran, the other day the Iranian foreign minister was in Pakistan to meet with officials there and he said that he wanted to mediate

this dispute. He plans to be India later this week.

That's an interesting case. Iran doesn't have all that strong relations with India or Pakistan. But, you know, you are having an number of

countries that want to try to help. No one has an interest in an all out war, that's for sure, including India and Pakistan. They don't want an all

out war either.

QUEST: We'll leave it there. I'm grateful, sir. Thank you.

And that's "Quest Business," I'm Richard Quest in New York. On the other side of the break will be Jim Sciutto who has more on this breaking news.

Because the news never stops, neither do we.

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END