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Quest Means Business

White House: Trump Won't Unilaterally Lower China Tariffs; DHL CEO: We Want Supply Chains to Remain Stable; Newark Airport Communications Outage Is Second In Two Weeks; Leo XIV Celebrates First Mass As Pope In Sistine Chapel; Pope Leo XIV Inherits Vatican's Complex Financial Situation; Victim's Sister Creates A.I. Video Of Her Brother To Address His Killer In Court At Sentencing. Aired 4-5p ET

Aired May 09, 2025 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[16:00:13]

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN HOST: Relatively slow Friday on Wall Street. The major indices not much changed. Those are the markets, these are the main events.

Top trade officials from the U.S. and China will meet this weekend. Both sides have signaled they are open to de-escalation.

Pope Leo XIV faces challenging the Vatican's finances.

And over at Newark Airport, a repeat outage in radar and radio for air traffic controllers. Scary.

Live from Washington. It is Friday, May 9th. I am Jim Sciutto, in for Richard Quest and this is QUEST MEANS BUSINESS.

Good evening.

Tonight, the White House says it needs to see concessions from China before the U.S. will lower tariffs. Press Secretary Karoline Leavitt was

clarifying President Trump's post on Truth Social that 80 percent tariffs on China by the U.S. seem about right, but that it is up to its Treasury

Secretary, Scott Bessent.

Bessent will meet with Chinese officials for trade talks this weekend. Those talks come as new data shows a sharp drop off in Chinese exports to

the U.S. Outbound shipments down 21 percent from April of last year. That's a big drop.

Anna Stewart is in London.

Listen, a lot of expectation now, right, of that trade, just dropping off a cliff in in the coming days and we are seeing an indication there. What are

you hearing?

ANNA STEWART, CNN REPORTER: Well, we are finally going to at least have a face-to-face meeting with the U.S. and China counterparts regarding the

trade situation.

First meeting since face-to-face at least since March, so since all of the retaliation that we've seen between the two countries, so that's the good

news.

The bad news is I don't think there is any expectation at this stage of a trade deal or a significant reduction in tariffs, although, as you said,

Trump did post on Truth Social, saying 80 percent tariff on China seems about right, up to Scott B. Slightly ruins the art of the deal in my

opinion, but let's see how that one goes.

Perhaps we know that tariffs won't go higher and that was, of course, the big threat a few weeks ago. But at 145 percent on Chinese imports, this is

from the U.S., really, it is almost meaningless.

If you went any higher, it probably wouldn't make much impact on trade at this stage. As you see, there is a huge drop off when we are looking at

trade between the two countries and actually shipping giant Maersk, they were reporting earnings yesterday. They are seeing a 30 to 40 percent drop

in container volumes between the two countries. That was an April. And that could get a lot worse if this situation isn't resolved. Have a listen to

what the CEO told us yesterday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VINCENT CLERC, CEO, MAERSK: I am also quite focused on the meeting that there will be this weekend between officials of the Trump administration

and from the Chinese administration. If we don't start to see a de- escalating -- a de-escalation of the situation with China, if we don't start to see more of those trade deals, then we could be in a situation

where some of these effects get more entrenched and are more adverse and will weigh more on our results going forward.

So something that we continue to monitor.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

STEWART: And it is not just them monitoring it, investors will be watching all the noises out of the meeting. It kicks off in Geneva tomorrow, neutral

territory, Switzerland. And of course depending on how that goes, the market open on Monday could be very interesting -- Jim.

SCIUTTO: No question.

Consumers, of course, are waiting for the effect on prices and availability. I wonder what you're learning about this U.S.-U.K. trade

deal, because from conversations I am having, there is not a lot of specificity in there. From your side of the Atlantic, are you hearing more?

STEWART: I have to say, we are both hearing on different sides of Atlantic, slightly different parts of the trade deal yesterday. It took me a while to

piece both parts together. It is still lacking quite a lot of detail, a lot needs to be ironed out.

I would say the promise from President Trump that it would be full and comprehensive has fallen pretty flat. It really isn't a comprehensive trade

deal. There are some victories for certain sectors. They are pretty niche, like auto, steel, and aluminum. Those wins are huge for people that work

within those sectors.

But you know, when asked -- this was the Prime Minister of the U.K., Keir Starmer, when asked whether this was a deal that was better than the

trading relationship prior to President Trump and this administration, his response was, the question you should be asking is, is it better than where

we were yesterday? Which kind of says it all? It is an imperfect deal. There are hopes that maybe they can work on this and this is just a sort of

platform, a building block, but currently, its small victories. But the U.K. is taking it as a big win.

It is the first trade deal with the President Trump administration. Mark-2.

SCIUTTO: Well, perhaps it is all in the selling.

Anna Stewart, thanks so much.

All right, so speaking of trade volumes, the CEO of DHL ships a lot of stuff around the world says he expects the current trade tensions to lead

to supply disruptions later this year. I spoke to Tobias Meyer yesterday after his meeting with Trump administration officials.

[16:05:15 ]

He told me it is difficult to fully understand the objectives of the current trade policy -- difficult to understand. And while Europeans have

some sympathy with Donald Trump's objectives, businesses want stability.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TOBIAS MEYER, CEO, DHL: I think there is a lot of support also from a European perspective, global perspective on a re-industrialization of the

United States. I think, also in the business community that there is great acceptance of that. It is more the question of how it happens and also how

you keep well-performing supply chains, and we have a lot of that that also the American consumer benefits from how you keep those stable and alive.

SCIUTTO: Yes. Now DHL, of course, is highly involved in transporting all of these goods around the global economy. Have you already seen negative

impacts on the volumes that you handle from the trade war?

MEYER: Well, definitely it has changed now, Jim. Especially from May the 2nd on. The trade from China, with China is heavily impacted. I think

everybody expected that. The tariffs in place now are very high and. make certain types of business, just not viable, so we have seen that now

realizing.

It is interesting to see how global supply chains will recalibrate. This is also why for us as a business, we are not so concerned. Trade is very

important for America, but also for the globe. Not every nation will make every type of pharmaceutical, every type of electronics. So trade is vital,

also to participate in innovation.

The shift of trade is now visible. It is shifting to other trade lanes. Whether this is overall good or bad for DHL is to be seen.

SCIUTTO: Do you see those shifts? And there is a lot of talk, for instance, of companies moving manufacturing from China where they would face the

tariffs to other countries, say, in Southeast Asia, where they either wouldn't face tariffs or would face lower tariffs.

Do you see those from these businesses who are your clients as temporary or longer term changes?

MEYER: I do think we have seen this shift since three, four or five years. Initially concentrated on electronics, then broadening to automotive and

then generally a lot of traded goods. Also in the discussion that came out of COVID on supply chain resilience that impacted sectors like pharma and

medical products, especially. So that's not new and that wasn't really triggered by this wave of tariffs.

Now, what has rather slowed down is investment decisions. I think also in the United States, because people don't know what to plan with, and I think

there is also increasing realization, businesses need certainty. The current state of affairs doesn't seem stable, doesn't seem to be the end

game. So that is an increasing concern that consumers are a bit weakened in their belief. But more importantly, businesses don't take investment

decisions.

SCIUTTO: I spoke recently with a former member of the Federal Reserve who, as you mentioned, now, the similarity to COVID times, the pandemic, the

possibility of another supply shock from this tariff war, this trade war that were in the midst of and there is a lot of talk, for instance, about

shipping from across the Pacific, about to drop off a cliff.

From where you're sitting and the business that you do, do you see a supply shock coming where things just the goods stop flowing in certain

directions?

MEYER: I think the situation is very different from COVID, because in COVID we had the more severe stoppage also of certain factories. We kept shipping

but a lot wasn't produced in the initial weeks of COVID.

We also had this element of uncertainty because also if you look at the stock market, the stock market believed a much more severe impact of COVID,

negative impact on business that didn't materialize. And very importantly, a lot of spend on services which couldn't happen, went into manufactured

goods and that created also demand shock.

We don't have that in this current situation, but I think it is important to remember certain supply chains have a long latency. You need to produce

precursors to a medicine very early, and those capacities, production capacities cannot be scaled so easily. So I do think if that current state

of uncertainty continues, you will see certain disruptions laid by the fourth quarter.

[16:10:00]

SCIUTTO: Companies such as DHL are often used by economic analysts as bellwethers of economic strength, forward looking ones, and I wonder, just

if you could give us a vision based on what you're seeing, do you see a slowing global economy going forward as a result of the trade war?

MEYER: I think it is very heterogeneous. You see countries that are benefiting from this; also companies benefiting. There will be windfall

profits in the U.S., ultimately paid by the consumer. There will be countries that companies, manufacturing companies will regard as a kind of

safe haven and we do see that in terms of reallocating inventory.

But larger economies, including the United States, obviously depend on consumer confidence and investment confidence and that is currently shaken.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SCIUTTO: Confidence shaken.

Well, Donald Trump has now eased tariffs on Britain's luxury car makers while telling you may have heard, kids in the U.S., they might have to live

with fewer dolls.

He took direct aim yesterday at Mattel, the company that makes Barbie, and explained why Rolls-Royce gets relief.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: We took it from 25 to 10 on Rolls-Royce because Rolls-Royce is not going to be built

here. I wouldn't even ask them to do that. It is a very special car and it is a very limited number, too.

Mattel, I don't know if some -- I am not so sure. They also said -- they are the only country I've heard, they said, well, we are going to go

counter. We are going to try going someplace else. That's okay. Let them go and we will put a hundred percent tariff on these toys, and he won't sell

one toy in the United States and that's their biggest market.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: Adam Posen is the President of the Peterson Institute for International Economics. He used to serve on the Bank of England's Monetary

Policy Committee and he joins me now.

Thanks so much for joining.

ADAM POSEN, PRESIDENT, PETERSON INSTITUTE FOR INTERNATIONAL ECONOMICS: Thank you.

The interviews with Maersk and DHL were very illuminating.

SCIUTTO: Tell me what they told you.

POSEN: They told me a couple of things. First, some of the obvious things you said that we are starting to see the supply chains unravel, that there

are things like pharmaceuticals and just in time products and inputs to other products that are at stake, that the effects of the Trump trade deals

or lack of trade deals and including tariffs are real.

And then going back to your reporter's comments previous that, you know, whether its 145 or for that matter, even 80 percent tariffs on China,

that's probably enough to basically cut off all trade.

I would add two other points. First is that the supply chain impacts are going to be somewhat akin to COVID on a smaller scale obviously, but there

will be things not just not appearing on the customer shelves, but inputs not available like they were saying about pharmaceuticals and that creates

shortages and inflation at the same time.

The second point I would make is, Jim, that they can't just resolve the uncertainty. This is like Brexit. It is a permanent shift away from

economic logic.

So you can reduce the uncertainty somewhat if we get a deal here or there, but fundamentally we've changed the rules of the game. In fact, we've

removed the rules of the game. So the uncertainty is going to persist.

SCIUTTO: That's such an important point there, right, and the comparison to Brexit. Right? So there seems to be an impression in this country and some

of it propagated by members of the Trump administration that well, he can modulate here. He may start at 145 on China, go down to 80. It is 25 on one

country for cars. Then it is going to be 10 percent.

But what you're saying is that those little fluctuations don't change the big picture.

POSEN: Exactly. And thank you for summarizing it that way. That's exactly what's going on, because what President Trump has done as a deliberate

strategy is shown that countries and companies cannot rely on any previous agreements with the U.S.

So Korea, Japan, Peru, Colombia, Chile, Mexico and Canada in particular all had deals with the U.S. and then they are all gone now.

And there were ways of involving these countries and saying, we want to renegotiate the deals. But the U.S. just went boom, we are going to do

that.

And similarly, dealing with China, we may not have good relations with China. There is plenty of reason to be suspicious, but if you're in China's

shoes, if one day it is zero, one day it is 20, the next day it is 145. The next day he is social media's 80. How do you decide?

SCIUTTO: Right.

POSEN: So people are going to choose to avoid trading with the U.S. as far as possible.

SCIUTTO: The administration has also tried to message that they're going to solve all of these problems with deals, dozens of deals. They often say

that countries are desperate to talk to them. But when you look at this U.K.-U.S. deal, does that give you an indication that perhaps that positive

sense is exaggerated?

[16:15:13]

Because when I speak to folks, as I mentioned earlier, they don't see a lot of meat on the bone here. And by the way, the U.K. was one country where

the U.S. actually has a trade surplus with as opposed to a trade deficit. But does that give you an indication that folks waiting for a series of

brilliant and clarifying trade deals might never see them?

POSEN: Yes is the short answer.

Look, I can come up with a list and I did starting in December after the election of what were the countries, Jim, that were most likely to do early

deals, favorable deals with the U.S. It was Canada and Mexico because they don't have a choice and we will get there.

It was the U.K., Japan, because they are so allied militarily and so close to the U.S. that they also don't have much of a choice. And then there are

a few others like Korea, Taiwan, Australia, Israel, perhaps in some fantasy land, India there. And then there is a bunch of really, really poor

countries who have no choice.

And if you leave India aside, which I don't think is going to happen, that adds up to some countries, but a relatively small share of U.S. trade,

except for Canada and Mexico, and everybody understands Canada and Mexico have a different deal because that's geography. It is like the European

Union or China with other countries near it.

But the thing is, you look at the U.K. deal and it is lacking specifics. It doesn't exempt them from the 10 percent overall tariff and then even if

you're Japan or Korea, a U.S. ally, you say, well, the U.K. exports 100,000 cars a year to the U.S. We export a million and produce a few million more

in the U.S. and you're going to give us the same deal, which is a lousy deal?

So it is not going to come together, and that is even before you get into the fact that it usually takes a lot of work and a lot of staff to make a

deal that goes through all the things you need to go through.

SCIUTTO: Sobering words. Adam Posen, thanks so much for coming on. Let's keep talking as we watch this unfold.

POSEN: Thank you, Jim.

SCIUTTO: Well, air traffic controllers in Newark experienced their second communications outage in less than two weeks. We are going to tell you what

the White House says they are doing to fix the issues.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:20:11]

SCIUTTO: The White House says it is working, trying to prevent further communication outages at Newark Airport after air traffic control lost

radar and radio contact today for the second time in two weeks.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KAROLINE LEAVITT, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: There was a glitch in the system this morning, especially at Newark Airport. DoT and the FAA are

working to address this technical issue tonight to prevent further outages, as well as install new fiber from Newark Airport to Philadelphia and the

goal is to have the totality of this work done by the end of the summer.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: The outage came early this morning, lasted about 90 seconds. The comms issues piled on to delays caused by bad weather and runway

construction.

As of early this afternoon, New York had already delayed almost 300 flights, canceled more than 120.

Pete Muntean is with me.

Pete, I know 90 seconds is just 90 seconds, but 90 seconds when you've got a bunch of passenger jets in the air over a crowded metropolitan area with

other airports in the air, and the controllers were blind to them, that sounds to me pretty significant.

PETE MUNTEAN, CNN AVIATION CORRESPONDENT: Yes, it is the busiest airspace in the United States, and 90 seconds is kind of an eternity when you talk

to air traffic controllers about this.

They're telling me, thankfully, that this happened in the middle of the night because this could have been a whole lot worse, they say. This new

meltdown at Newark Approach Control, just the latest in the series of incidents there and the FAA is now confirming our reporting that

controllers at the facility lost radar displays and radio contact for about 90 seconds just before four this morning. That means that, like you said,

controllers could not see where planes were or communicate with them, very similar to the incident that happened 11 days ago and that blackout on

April 28th caused five controllers to take what's called trauma leave, leading to staffing shortages and rolling flight delays at Newark, more

than a thousand flights canceled.

Controllers understandably very upset about this, and they tell me it is basically the most dangerous thing that can happen on the job. I want you

to listen now, Jim, to what a controller who is working during this new case was able to broadcast to a flight when the radar scopes went down.

Listen.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

AIR TRAFFIC CONTROLLER: FedEx 1989. I hand you off here. Our scopes just went black again. If you care about this, contact your airline and try to

get some pressure for them to fix this stuff.

FEDEX 1989 PILOT: Sorry to hear about that. FedEx 1989. I'm switching. Good luck, guys.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

MUNTEAN: Our reporting shows that this has happened at least three times now. There was also an incident on November 6th when controllers lost

contact with a FedEx flight, which ultimately flew into the busy airspace over LaGuardia.

The controller told me it was pretty much a miracle there wasn't a midair collision in that case. The FAA says the source of this latest problem was

a telecommunications outage. And yesterday, Transportation Secretary Sean Duffy rolled out a plan to modernize air traffic control nationwide,

notably replacing old copper wire in about 4,600 air traffic control facilities with fiber optic cable.

He told me in an interview this will take three to four years, pretty aggressive, but only if Congress gives the Trump administration all the

money for this plan up front. It could be $15 billion, it could be $30 billion.

Duffy said that these latest incidents highlight a really big need here -- Jim.

SCIUTTO: Pete Muntean, I mean, that line from the controller, "If you care about this, please tell your airline to ..."

MUNTEAN: Yes, of course --

SCIUTTO: I mean, of course I imagine I might care if I was flying that jet.

MUNTEAN: Yes.

SCIUTTO: Pete Muntean, thanks so much.

MUNTEAN: Anytime.

SCIUTTO: A U.S. federal judge has ordered the immediate release of a Tufts University student after six weeks of detention.

Rumeysa Ozturk was detained by federal immigration officers, you may remember this video, near her home in Massachusetts. She is a PhD student

from Turkey.

Last year, she wrote a column for the campus newspaper criticizing her school's response to the war in Gaza. And it was that column, apparently,

that got her arrested.

Her detention, part of a series of arrests of international students who participated in protests.

Omar Jimenez is in New York. And Omar, I mean, this is the column. I've read it a bunch of times. I don't see how this gets you imprisoned in this

country, but it appears that the judge looked at that and said, that's not enough to put someone in jail.

OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, I mean, really, it is along the lines of what Rumeysa Ozturk's attorneys were arguing all along that the only

evidence the government seemed to have here was that op-ed and the judge continually was asking for weeks, well, what else do you have? And that it

was clear it was just this op-ed.

Now, what the government argued in this is that, again, vaguely arguing that Ozturk, who is not charged with a crime, was accused by the Trump

administration of participating in activities in support of Hamas and that was the reasoning they cited for what you're seeing on video right now,

approaching Ozturk on the street, unmasked or ununiformed plainclothes officers, immigration officers rushing in to make that actual arrest.

[16:25:10]

When this started playing out in court. And I want to quote the judge here now, "This ended after six weeks of being in detained. There is no evidence

here as to the motivation, absent the consideration of the op-ed."

So the judge clearly siding with Ozturk's defense here and ordering her to be released immediately.

Now, we are still waiting for confirmation that she is actually outside of the detainment center right now. The judge told the government to keep them

updated to the minute of when she actually steps foot outside, but the judge did order this. And so now we are just sort of waiting to see what

the next steps will be here -- Jim.

SCIUTTO: Remarkable. And as you read the judge's decision there, just talking about the chilling effect on free speech that this case has already

had.

JIMENEZ: Yes.

SCIUTTO: Omar Jimenez, thanks so much.

JIMENEZ: Of course.

SCIUTTO: Well, Pope Leo is set to hold his inaugural public mass on May 18th. He is already tasked with taking on a whole host of challenges and

questions for the church going forward, including its finances.

The Vatican correspondent for Religion News Service joins me just after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCIUTTO: Hello, I am Jim Sciutto. There is more QUEST MEANS BUSINESS in a moment when we will be in Rome, where one of Pope Leo XIV's biggest

challenge is will be to get the Vatican's finances in order.

And we will tell you why the family of a man killed in a road rage incident used A.I. to present his side of the story in a U.S. courtroom. It is a

remarkable video to watch.

Before that, though, the headlines this hour.

There are blackouts, canceled flights as well after reported explosions in Indian administered Kashmir. Despite calls for restraint from world

leaders, India and Pakistan accuse each other of carrying out further drone attacks. Saudi Arabia's Foreign Affairs Minister has arrived in Pakistan

after visiting New Delhi on Thursday.

[16:30:08]

Chinese President Xi Jinping was among world leaders who attended a massive military parade in Moscow on Friday. Thousands of troops commemorated what

is known as Victory Day in Russia. The annual celebrations of the Soviet Union's triumph over Nazi Germany in World War II.

A federal judge has ordered the release of a Tufts University student detained by U.S. immigration officials. The trump administration accused

Rumeysa Ozturk of supporting Hamas. The only evidence it provided was that she wrote an op-ed about school policy on Gaza. She has now been held six

weeks without facing any criminal charges.

Pope Leo XIV celebrated mass in the Sistine Chapel on the first full day of his new papacy. That service was held for the cardinals who elected him as

the first pope ever born here in the United States. Leo will be formally installed as Pope on May 18th.

We're learning more about him from those who know him best. His brother says Leo likely sees the U.S. moving in the wrong direction on immigration.

John Prevost also expects his brother to follow church tradition on issues such as gay marriage.

Christopher Lamb is in Rome. And Christopher, we're getting a vision of a truly remarkable man with quite a back story, not just that he's from

America, but that he has quite a mixed background, just in terms of all the various countries, his grandparents came from his time in Peru, where he's

also a citizen. But it's giving us a vision as well as to where people expect him to take the church.

CHRISTOPHER LAMB, CNN VATICAN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, that's right, Jim, I was at a press briefing with the cardinal electors from the U.S. Some of them

spoke to journalists. They're emphasizing that Pope Leo is very much a citizen of the world, that he's, of course, spent that so much time working

in Latin America. In Peru, he was a former leader of the Order of St. Augustine, so he was basically running a worldwide religious order in 50

countries.

So, he's very much someone with a lot of international experience. Of course, the first American Pope born in Chicago, and that is obviously

creating a huge amount of interest in what he is doing.

But I think that what we're seeing from Pope Leo is already a desire to continue in the line of Pope Francis when it comes to the key reforms of

the church, particularly the reform process that Pope Francis started, the Synod -- the Synod which he Pope Leo was part of as a Cardinal.

And I think in his own way, he will continue with the vision that Pope Francis articulated, particularly a missionary church. And I imagine the

next big thing that the pope -- the new pope will do will have to will be to decide where he's going to travel first. That will be a big moment and a

big decision.

There are still some things we don't know about Pope Leo. We don't know where he's going to live. That's, I think, quite an important decision for

him. He did spend the night at his old apartment, but we don't know where he is going to be living long term.

So, a lot of things are still to be worked out, but already a clear direction of travel, Jim.

SCIUTTO: No question. And you know those things like, where does he live, or even how he gets around, right, where we're so symbolic and indicative

of Pope Francis, for instance, because folks noticed that he didn't live in the fancy apartments. He lived -- you know, tried to live as much as he

could as pope as one of his flock.

LAMB: That's right. I mean, it was a big part of who Francis was that he wanted to live in the Santa Marta guest house, not in the Apostolic Palace.

But look, Pope Leo is his own man, and he will do things his way. And you know, he may decide to go back and live in the Apostolic Palace. We just

don't know yet.

He did wear the red vestment or the red mozzetta when he came out onto the balcony, which is a sort of return to tradition, because Pope Francis

didn't wear that.

But all the accounts and all the things that I'm hearing is that Pope Leo is someone who's a very good listener. He's someone who wants to bring

people together. He's not someone who's looking for confrontation. But he's also going to be quite firm.

And things like the plight of migrants, things like social justice, economic injustices, those social questions I think he'll be quite strong

on.

[16:35:07]

But he's someone also who is quite a methodical person. He's measured. He's going to take his time. He's not like Francis who often spoke of the coffin

was often doing things that were unexpected.

I think he's going to be quite measured in what he does, and I think he's going to take his time, but when he does make decisions, they're going to

be clear, firm, and I think they will -- there will be some very, very interesting moments.

SCIUTTO: No question, and you'll be there to witness them. Christopher Lamb, thanks so much.

Well, of the many jobs he now has on his plate, Pope Leo is now tasked with overseeing the Vatican's delicate financial situation. It's facing a budget

shortfall of more than $90 million according to a Reuters report. The Vatican's pension fund in particular is believed to be hundreds of millions

of dollars short. It will also fall on Pope Leo to uphold the reforms Pope Francis had made to the Vatican Bank. The lender used to be seen as corrupt

before Francis installed a more professional team to run it.

Claire Giangrave is Vatican correspondent for Religion News Service, and she joins me now for Rome. Thanks for joining us.

CLAIRE GIANGRAVE, VATICAN CORRESPONDENT, RELIGION NEWS SERVICE: Thank you.

SCIUTTO: So, first question, I guess, of the many things the Pope is going to have to handle here, including his flock of 1.4 billion Catholics around

the world. How important is it seeing where you are that he addresses the financial issue?

GIANGRAVE: I mean, the Vatican's finances have been broadened financial scandals for decades, even longer. Any Pope who takes on this role knows

that part of his responsibility is trying to address that issue.

We're talking about a small city state that doesn't really have any companies or business or GDP. All the money that it receives comes from

donations. And we are living right now at a time where the church where those donations are dwindling, in part because of the financial scandals,

but also because of the sexual abuse crisis.

And the cardinals, as they met in the general congregations before the Conclave, were thinking about this. They were hearing briefings about this,

and they were being informed about the importance of this task. And Pope Leo XIV will not be able to ignore it.

SCIUTTO: Let me ask you this, because there had been some signs that President Trump expressed his dissatisfaction with the previous pope, Pope

Francis, by reducing the United States donations to the Vatican.

And I wonder, is that likely to be concerned during the reign of Pope Leo XIV given that, based on his public position so far, he seems to have

differences with, for instance, treatment of migrants in particular.

GIANGRAVE: Well, donations to the Catholic Church come from the faithful or people who want to help the Vatican or the Pope. It's called Peter's Pence.

It's a collection that's made once a year by faithful worldwide.

Now, the richest churches in the world are in the United States and Germany, and under Pope Francis, these two churches went at odds with the

Vatican for many in the United States, because Pope Francis's vision and view were too progressive for some, and so we saw those donations start to

dwindle.

And we know that the money that comes to the United States really is important for the church and its mission, because the United States is

known for its charitable donations.

Now, we have the American Pope. Will that change the situation? According to some people I'm talking to, hopefully yes, and already, it might seem

that the coffers of the United -- of the Vatican might be filling with charitable money from American faithful eager to see their own up the seat

of Peter.

SCIUTTO: Can you give us a sense, given you cover this so closely of -- I don't want to use the word politics. It's not that his view of the church,

right, because Francis was so defined by redirecting the church back to what he believed was its most important mission, its pastoral mission,

serving those in need around the world.

And certainly, Pope Leo XIV, that's the way he lived 20 years in Peru. He served, -- he served the poor, that's what he saw the focus of his job is,

can we expect continuity in that sense?

GIANGRAVE: Absolutely. I mean, we can see that Pope Leo XIV has already not only thanked Pope Francis many times as he spoke to the crowd gathered in

St. Peter's Square, but also, once again, when he was speaking about the kind of leadership, the kind of missionary testimony and witness that the

church needs to give. He mentioned synodality, which is a word that sounds very complicated, but it actually means church structures that need to be

reformed to be more inclusive, with lay people, with women, with all marginalized groups coming together to make decisions.

Obviously, this is a sign of continuity. The fact that the decision happened so quickly, and some didn't expect that this candidate -- you

know, that Pope Leo would emerge so quickly is actually a sign of unity from a conclave that had 108 cardinals who were selected personally by Pope

Francis.

[16:40:09]

SCIUTTO: Yes. No question. Listen, if you want to go continuity back to Leo XIII, probably telling Leo the XIII, hundred some odd years ago, was seen

as a social justice reformer. Perhaps there's a message there.

Claire Giangrave, thanks so much for joining.

GIANGRAVE: Thank you.

SCIUTTO: Artificial Intelligence in the courtroom, the family of a man who was killed in a road rage incident has used A.I. to bring him to life to

give a victim statement. Claire Duffy has the story. It's a remarkable one, when we return.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCIUTTO: In Hawaiian culture, sea turtles are symbols of protection, but their own survival is now in danger from myriad threats such as habitat

loss, plastic pollution and fishing.

Today, on "CALL TO EARTH," we join a dedicated rescue team working tirelessly to save them.

(CALL TO EARTH)

[16:47:53]

SCIUTTO: Great work they're doing. Good luck to Kirby. Let us know what you're doing to answer the call using the hashtag, #CalltoEarth.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:50:37]

SCIUTTO: The family of a man who was killed in a road rage incident used A.I. to present his side of the story in a U.S. courtroom, in effect,

bringing his image and his voice back to life. It's an example of how the technology is making its way into the legal system in well remarkable ways.

Claire Duffy has been covering this for us. And Claire, as I watch this video of the guy, I can only imagine myself being a relative of the person

and seeing someone you lost come back to life. I mean, it had to be moving, but also a little spooky.

CLARE DUFFY, CNN BUSINESS WRITER: Yes, the family actually said that it was really healing for them to see their brother, their uncle, Christopher

Pelkey was killed in 2021 be brought back to life in this way. I spoke to his sister, Stacey Wales, who said that she spent two years writing her

victim impact statement, trying to think of what she would say in court, but she really wanted to humanize Christopher, to bring him back to life

for the judge, for the man who killed him in the sentencing hearing.

And so, she and her husband, they both work in tech, they decided to create this A.I. version of Christopher to let him make his statement himself.

Let's take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CHRISTOPHER PELKEY, ROAD RAGE VICTIM: This here is a true representation of who I was, you know, not how the courtroom portrayed me. So, I would like

to make my own impact statement.

DUFFY (voice over): This is Christopher Pelkey, an A.I. version. He was killed in a road rage shooting incident in Chandler, Arizona in 2021.

In a recent sentencing hearing, his family brought him back to life by using generative A.I. to address his shooter in a victim impact statement.

It's believed to be the first time that A.I. has been used to deliver a victim impact statement in court.

PELKEY: It is a shame we encountered each other that day, in those circumstances. In another life, we probably could have been friends.

DUFFY (voice over): Chris' sister and brother-in-law, who both work in technology, created this A.I. version of him with old photos and video

files and a script that his sister Stacey Wales wrote.

STACEY WALES, SISTER OF CHRIS PELKEY: The only thing that kept entering my head that I kept hearing was Chris and what he would say.

PELKEY: I believe in forgiveness and in God who forgives. I always have and I still do.

WALES: When I first saw the video, I just knew it would be effective, because it captured the embodiment and the spirit of who Chris was and what

he sounded like and looked like was impactful.

DUFFY (voice over): State prosecutors asked for nine and a half years for manslaughter and sentencing, but the judge eventually gave 10.5 years. The

shooter was sentenced to 12.5 years in total for manslaughter and endangerment.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I love that. A.I. Thank you for that. And as angry as you are and justifiably angry as the family is, I heard the forgiveness.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think everybody was impressed and felt the impact and how powerful it was to hear from Christopher Pelkey, from his voice,

from his likeness.

DUFFY (voice over): The family said they found healing through this process, but they warned the use of A.I. in the courtroom should be

approached carefully.

WALES: This was not evidence. The jury never saw this. It wasn't even made before a verdict came down guilty. This is an opinion the judge was allowed

to see a human that's no longer here for who he was.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

DUFFY (on camera): Now, I think it's really interesting, because as you see there, the judge actually said he loved seeing the A.I.

But it's -- you know, as I talk to experts about this, they say that judges are going to have to increasingly decide whether to allow and how to allow

A.I. in the courtroom as evidence as these victim impact statements, and they're really going to have to consider and weigh the powerful emotional

impact of this A.I. generated content against the potential that they could be unfairly preferencing or giving an advantage to one side over the other,

Jim.

SCIUTTO: Sure and what it means to the families, right, involved. Wow. What a story. Claire Duffy, I'm sure it's not the last we hear, but thanks so

much.

DUFFY: Thank you.

SCIUTTO: Well, Microsoft founder Bill Gates spoke to CNN about his pledge to give away his entire fortune over the next 20 years. The money just

about $200 billion will go to serve disadvantaged communities around the world through his Gates Foundation. It comes as Elon Musk's DOGE project

makes drastic cuts to USAID and other government aid programs and agencies. Gates says those cuts were very much a mistake.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[16:55:01]

FAREED ZAKARIA, HOST, FAREED ZAKARIA GPS: You said that Elon Musk choosing through DOGE to cut USAID to essentially dismantle USAID is a case of the

world's richest man being involved in the deaths of the world's poorest people.

Do you think that part of what's going on there, why do you think Musk is a smart guy? Do you think it was pandering to the prejudices of the

Republican base, which thinks all foreign aid is wasted? What do you think was going on there?

BILL GATES, FOUNDER, MICROSOFT: Well, I think you'd show up and say, in a few months, you can cut $2 trillion out of a $7 trillion budget. You aren't

-- you're not going to succeed.

And so, you go for the softest things and, you know, things that are overseas that you can mischaracterize like, you know, characterizing it as

condoms for Hamas didn't have one eye out of truth and talking about people that he hasn't spent time with.

I mean, I spend a lot of time in Africa. I go to Nigeria, Ethiopia, Kenya, you know, meet the USAID people. You know, he's a genius in some domains,

but in global health, it hasn't been a focus.

And so, I'd say that, you know, firing all those people and cutting off all that money, that was a mistake. You know, I don't think the U.S. values are

to lose those relationships and destroy those health systems that increases the risk of a pandemic.

You know, we want to be a force for good. This is less than one percent of the budget. If there was a modest cut, you know, and a challenge to be more

efficient or to get others to step up. I'm fine with that, but 80 percent, that's going to be millions of deaths. And it's a mistake.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: Millions of deaths, he says. You can watch the full interview with Gates on GPS, with Fareed Zakaria Sunday at 10:00 a.m. Eastern Time here in

Washington, 3:00 p.m. in London.

U.S. Markets closed mixed today, ahead of trade talks with China this weekend, the Dow Jones fell more than 100 points. S&P closed essentially

flat. Lyft shares soared 28 percent after the ride share app reported strong earnings and boosted its share buyback program.

That is QUEST MEANS BUSINESS for today, I'm Jim Sciutto, "THE LEAD WITH JAKE TAPPER" is next.

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END