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Quest Means Business
Trump Announces He Will Lift Sanctions On Syria; U.S. Inflation Falls To 2.3 Percent, Lowest Since 2021; Ex-Girlfriend Of Sean Combs Takes The Stand Against Him; Trump Seeks Business Deals In Saudi Arabia, Qatar And UAE; U.S. Tariffs Push South America Closer To China; Zelenskyy Push For Ceasefire In Putin Talks In Turkey; MAGA Pundits Question Trump's Plan To Accept Qatari Jet. Aired 4-5p ET
Aired May 13, 2025 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[16:00:15]
PAULA NEWTON, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST: Down day for the Dow. Now that does come after the epic rally on Monday. UnitedHealthcare, a significant
portion of the Dow down significantly today, but you know, it doesn't tell the whole story. Look at that. The NASDAQ and the S&P 500 eking out quite
impressive gains, especially the NASDAQ, up almost six percent over two days.
Those are the markets and these are the main events.
President Trump announces plans to lift sanctions on Syria while on his visit to Saudi Arabia.
Sean "Diddy" Combs' former girlfriend takes the stand in his criminal trial.
And an investigation into how Russia is using social media to keep a grip on occupied Mariupol.
Live from New York, it is Tuesday, May 13th. I'm Paula Newton in for Richard Quest and this is QUEST MEANS BUSINESS.
And a very good evening to you all. Tonight, Donald Trump says it is a new generation in the Middle East as he takes center stage in Saudi Arabia.
The U.S. President announced he would lift all sanctions on Syria, saying it is now the country's time to shine after the fall of the Assad regime.
During remarks in Riyadh, Mr. Trump said he made the decision after discussing it with Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed Bin Salman.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: I will be ordering the cessation of sanctions against Syria in order to give them a
chance at greatness.
Oh, what I do for the Crown Prince.
The sanctions were brutal and crippling and served as an important, really an important function nevertheless, at the time. But now, it is their time
to shine.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NEWTON: Okay, Mr. Trump and the Crown Prince also signed several deals. The White House says Saudi Arabia pledged $600 billion worth of investment.
Becky Anderson is in Riyadh for us tonight.
There is a lot there to keep track of what happened today. We are going to lean on your deep knowledge in the region and how long you've been covering
these stories.
What struck you as different this time compared to when he visited Saudi Arabia in his first term? And he certainly made news on Syria.
BECKY ANDERSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: That's right. He did.
And if Donald Trump himself was considering how things have changed, he would have had a very long list domestically. 2017 was a period when no
women were driving here. There were no theaters, cinemas here. You didn't see big sporting events or music events here. None of that.
That was at the beginning of what is now this decade-long stint, as it were, by the de facto ruler, Mohammed Bin Salman here. And this is an
economy and a society to a degree completely transformed.
So that is -- this is a very, very different place from Donald Trump's first trip, which was, of course, his first trip as President. This is his
first official trip in his second term. He is here tomorrow and then on to Doha and Qatar.
Regionally, things have changed completely as well. I mean, you know, the Saudis were embroiled in a massive conflict with the Houthis in Yemen back
in 2017. The U.S. was still in the JCPOA in Syria. Bashar al-Assad still reigned supreme, his country completely destroyed societally anyway, with
huge amounts of people on the move displaced because of the internal conflict there.
This is a country and a region which is very different. The Saudis had no relationship with Iran back in 2017. They now have a very decent
relationship, it could be argued. And, you know, things are getting better.
So that is -- that's the sort of deep story here. President Trump came to Riyadh today expecting to get some really big wins when it comes to
business and investment. The Saudis were prepared to help him out with those as long as those deals made sense to them as well. This is an economy
with huge ambitions.
But if Donald Trump thought that -- or if we thought that geopolitics would be sort of put to the side, well, that wasn't the case.
[16:05:06]
That news on Syria, for example, really indicative of the potential for the U.S. really turning a page on its Middle East policy. Of course, that
remains to be seen.
But the lifting of those sanctions, absolutely crucial for this government, this new President, to all accounts, Syria needs something like $400
billion in reconstruction money, and the lifting of these sanctions is going to really help that.
Paula, it has been a really busy 14 hours in Trump world. Let's give you a sense, aside from the diplomacy, the Syrian news of what happened during
what is his first day here.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANDERSON (voice over): A Royal welcome for U.S. President Donald Trump as he touched down in Saudi Arabia on Tuesday.
The Gulf State putting on a lavish reception to greet America's self-styled dealmaker-in-chief.
This is Trump's first major overseas trip of his second term, and the guest list made clear, business deals are top of the agenda.
Tech CEOs and leaders of large U.S. firms joining Trump's top political team in Riyadh.
TRUMP: We have the biggest business leaders in the world here today, and they're going to walk away with a lot of checks for a lot of things that
you're going to provide.
ANDERSON (voice over): This is Trump's chance to prove himself a major dealmaker on the global stage. He suggested 2 million U.S. jobs could be
created as part of his visit.
MOHAMMED SOLIMAN, SENIOR FELLOW, MIDDLE EAST INSTITUTE: The region in the new Europe in the mindset of President Trump. Clearly, he sees this region
as a big priority area for his own economic agenda when it comes to securing deals for American companies that want to make sure that they have
access to overseas markets.
ANDERSON (voice over): But while the fanfare was obvious, the finer details of what was signed not immediately clear. Multiple economic, trade, and
defense agreements, including the White House, says a $600 billion commitment from Riyadh to invest in the United States.
Officials here who have huge economic ambitions themselves, insist this is no blank check, saying the deals will bear fruit for both sides.
TRUMP: And I use trade --
ANDERSON (voice over): In his keynote speech on Tuesday, Trump highlighted what he described as a "modern Middle East."
TRUMP: Before our eyes, a new generation of leaders is transcending the ancient conflicts of tired divisions of the past and forging a future where
the Middle East is defined by commerce, not chaos, where it exports technology, not terrorism, and where people of different nations, religions
and creeds are building cities together, not bombing each other.
ANDERSON (voice over): It was a welcome message to Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed Bin Salman, the Gulf State's de facto ruler and a key Trump ally
since the President's first term in office.
The visit here is the first on a four-day tour of energy rich Gulf Arab nations.
TRUMP: Getting bigger and bigger.
ANDERSON (voice over): Next up, Qatar and the UAE also keen to cast themselves as indispensable business partners and key intermediaries in
conflicts from Gaza to Ukraine.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANDERSON (on camera): And while he has been walking the walk on Syria, he is certainly talking the talk on Iran suggesting that it is now the time to
choose a deal with him and offering a stark warning that he will effectively come after them should they not choose the path of peace and
stability with the United States.
But let's be quite clear, there is an awful lot more to do in this region with U.S. support if this is to be a region that is peaceful and more
stable going forward. All of these big Gulf nations need stability around this region in order for their ambitious sort of economic visions to work.
You know, the Gaza conflict, we have still no real idea about what Donald Trump's solution to that might be. So some wins, it has to be said, it has
been a very busy day. Let's see what we get out of what is a U.S. Gulf Summit tomorrow.
NEWTON: Becky, grateful to have you there as we continue, as I say, to follow the news lines. Appreciate it.
Now inflation numbers for April show tariffs have not yet caused prices to spike in the United States. The CPI rose at an annual rate of 2.3 percent,
that is in fact the lowest rate in more than four years. Economic uncertainty weighed on demand for some items. Air transportation fell 2.8
percent, and used cars and trucks fell half a percent.
Ken Rogoff is the former Chief Economist of the IMF. His new book is called "Our Dollar, Your Problem," and he joins me now.
Professor Rogoff, so good to see you again, especially as we all try to make sense of a lot of economic headwinds here.
[16:10:07]
KEN ROGOFF, FORMER CHIEF ECONOMIST OF INTERNATIONAL MONETARY FUND: Thank you.
NEWTON: Or are they? Maybe they are tailwinds.
I do want to start with the Trump administration. It has solved the crisis of its own making. Chinese -- those China tariffs are now more moderate.
The two sides are talking. So I am really wondering from you how has the economic outlook changed as far as you're concerned in just the last 48
hours and getting back to those inflation numbers, do you believe we are just not seeing the inflation, the effects of this and the data yet?
ROGOFF: Well, I think the good news is Trump, the pragmatist, has emerged again. He has retreated from the tariff war. I don't think he got anything
from China. He says he did, but I think he just retreated. China thinks they, you know, got a big victory.
There is still uncertainty there because all the other countries are to come. We don't know how his mood will swing from one day to the next.
If the tariffs remain relatively low, then going forward, inflation still is going to go up. No, the rest of the world has not paid the tariffs.
Americans mostly pay the tariffs. It is going to enter inflation which I see edging up towards three-and-a-half or four percent by the end of this
year not where it is today.
But you know, that is still a lot more stable, as you put it, than where we were.
NEWTON: Yes, understandably, given the shocks post pandemic.
Quickly, though, recession on your mind or no? Do you think the American economy will escape that this year?
ROGOFF: Well, I think at this moment, his retreat from this crazy policy of art of the deal tariffs, it is a big stabilizing factor. I mean, he is
taking away the biggest stabilizing factor -- destabilizing factor. You know, you stop hitting your head against the wall and it feels better. I
think that's where the American economy is.
But at the same time, I think we are still going to slow down a lot. I think this whole tariff war and other things he has done with the rule of
law have undermined the United States as an investment destination. It has undermined the long-term position of the dollar. There is a lot of ground
loss that will not be easy to regain.
NEWTON: And that does bring us to the topic of your very timely book, "Our Dollar, Your Problem." You talk of the hegemony of the American dollar. In
currency terms, it has seemed so invincible for so long and yet you say we may be at the beginning of its decline.
I am wondering for you, how do you see that shaking out? Especially as there has been so much discussion about the dollar in the last few weeks?
ROGOFF: Well, I mean, there is -- a lot of the rest of the world has reasons to pull away from the dollar -- in Asia, especially China
especially and they have been doing it for a decade. That has been in train before Trump. Europe also is trying to expand their footprint.
But I think the biggest challenges to the dollar lie ahead with our, you know, a budget deficit, a budget debt problem, the accumulated deficit that
we have not tamed. And in my opinion, it will probably lead to something pretty dramatic in Trump's term. Maybe another Biden type inflation spike.
And also, even though he retreated from his attacks on the Federal Reserve, both sides, the left and the right, but right now, Trump really don't like
the Fed being so independent, and that too is going to undermine the dollar.
So I think we peaked in the dollar and it will still be in first, but a lot less above the others.
NEWTON: And I do want to get to that issue of interest rates in a moment, but let's go back to what you said in the beginning there. Right?
A lot of lip service being paid on Capitol Hill on the American budget, and yet it seems that despite how much they talk about it, the American budgets
continue to balloon. I am going to quote you now from this very book. You say: "The U.S. is running deficits at such a prolific rate that it is
likely headed for trouble in almost any scenario."
I ask you, what kind of trouble? What does it look like?
ROGOFF: Well, I mean, the problems that you said you asked about interest rates later, they've been going up. They were almost zero for a long time
so you could just borrow. It seemed like a free lunch.
Well, you know what? It is not. And the trouble is, it is not the Democrats. It is not the Republicans, but the American people have not got
used to the idea that they just can't borrow till they are blue in the face.
We have half of the world's debt among advanced countries. We are pouring more debt in. I think were over six percent debt to GDP -- deficit to GDP
this year. Whatever DOGE and all Trump's theater, it is probably going to blow up more.
[16:15:00]
So I do think this thing is coming to a head, not necessarily overnight, but as I said, within the next four years, they will have to be trouble in
one direction or another. Most likely, we will have a burst of inflation to temporarily let off some steam.
NEWTON: You know, in the midst of all of this, though, we still have President Trump calling on the Fed interfering really in places that he
shouldn't about cutting interest rates and quoting him from just a few hours ago, "What is wrong with Two Late Powell? Not fair to America, which
is ready to blossom. Just let it happen. It will be a beautiful thing."
Now, in your book, as you just mentioned, you discuss real interest rates. Right? You argue that, as you point out to American consumers, that long
term lower for thing, that doctrine will not stand. And yet I say again, people pay lip service to this.
Do you think only a crisis will get things to change at this point in time?
ROGOFF: I do. I think it is not a matter of the leaders, it is a matter of needing a crisis to slap Americans in the face. We had the Biden era
inflation, but I think when it happens again, maybe we will see some action.
It is very difficult for the political parties to proactively do something, whatever we say. And yes, you know, both sides, but particularly the
Republicans right now are talking. They are going to cut Medicaid that's for poor people. They're going to do all of these things. No, they're not.
You know, they can't do it politically.
So I think we are going to continue to see the deficit rolling along and markets are not going to be pleased. I think we are going to see interest
rates going up, the interest bill piling more than the Defense budget now. So that it is going to be hard to deal with and still get elected until
we've had a crisis.
NEWTON: Well, Professor Rogoff, fair warning to our viewers that when everyone thought the financial crisis was over, it was not over and you
said the worst was yet to come.
I hate to remind everyone of that, but as we are digesting your book, "Our Dollar, Your Problem," Professor Rogoff, always good to have you on, open
invitation. Thanks so much.
ROGOFF: Thank you, Paula.
NEWTON: Now, switching gears here to news in the United States, the former girlfriend of Sean "Diddy" Combs took the stand on the second day of his
sex trafficking trial.
Cassie Ventura described years of alleged abuse and Combs' so-called freak offs parties. That is next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:20:07]
NEWTON: The ex-girlfriend of Sean "Diddy" Combs and one of his accusers testified on the second day of the sex trafficking trial. Cassie Ventura
described Combs as controlling and said some of their arguments would get violent. She broke down in tears when asked about his so-called freak offs
parties that they were allegedly forced or they allegedly forced her to have sex.
Combs says the sex was consensual. He has pleaded not guilty to federal charges of racketeering, conspiracy, sex trafficking and transporting for
prostitution.
CNN legal analyst, Joey Jackson joins me now.
Grateful to have you, Joey, to talk about this and I do want to point out that the details and the testimony are deeply disturbing, and we want
viewers to know that right off the bat.
Given, though, what the charges are and how the defense is proceeding here, how do you analyze the burden of proof on the prosecution, right? Because
he is not charged with assault or domestic abuse.
JOEY JACKSON, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Yes, Paula, that's a significant point and I think that the prosecution may be banking upon the jury not really
connecting or liking what his attitude and behavior that is Sean "Diddy" Combs, his behavior was how he treated her, the nature of his activities,
his sexual proclivities, et cetera.
But again, to your point, that's not what the case is about. It shouldn't be and it is not illegal, certainly, to have a freaky lifestyle, to be a
swinger, to be immoral, to be a person who lacks judgment, to be a person people don't like, to be a person who is controlling -- all of that very
significant to go to show the nature of the dynamic, but not really heavy on whether you're a racketeer, right?
Whether you're engaged in a criminal enterprise, whether you're transporting people for sexual purposes, whether you're engaged in
prostitution. So what's clear to me is that he is guilty of domestic violence, what's not on trial though, is that very issue. And I think
prosecutors need to beef up that aspect of it in order to proceed to a guilty finding.
NEWTON: Joey, can I ask you why choose these charges in this trial then? I mean, he basically last year on Instagram, on social media apologized you
know, for what was clearly a violent incident there, at least the one. Why not go down that road on these charges? Because so many have pointed out
the burden of proof here is quite high.
JACKSON: You know, Paula, the Southern District of New York has a storied history, and they ultimately do what they want to do. Prosecutors have a
vast amount of discretion and they felt that they would use that discretion to indicate that he was running a criminal enterprise, that he was using
his persona, he was using his power, he was using his prestige not only to further his business interests and his brand, but to exploit women.
And so what they ended up doing, they being prosecutors, is they really tacked it into this racketeering type of case, and in doing that, they'd
have to establish that he was using his business empire for purposes of really sexual gratification. And so the argument is now, he wasn't doing it
for his brand, he wasn't doing it to enrich himself and be a person who would be really notorious in the music industry, but he was doing it off of
sexual exploitation.
It is a hard argument to make, and then the other issue, of course, we know centers, Paula, around the issue of consent. Who are these women who he had
long-term relationships with? We know Cassie testified today who he was with for 10 years. Were they consenting to that lifestyle or was he
otherwise coercing them? And that's very much on trial now.
So why prosecutors did it? I mean, Southern District, they do a lot of different things. Will it stick? Long way to go here. Perhaps there are
other more compelling evidence that will be presented. Not that it hasn't been already. It just has not been to the issue of prostitution, to the
issue of sexual trafficking. That's what we really need to see.
NEWTON: And, Joey, I am really glad you brought up the issue of consent because it is so difficult for juries to parse this. I mean, look. Ventura
is there saying today in testimony, I had no choice.
JACKSON: Yes, I mean, that's the reality and that's what they are putting it on. Now, what is interesting, though, is she noted that there was
Cassie, being she, his long-term companion, they were together for more than 10 years, and apparently this came up, the issue of this swinging type
of dynamic after the first year and at that point, she began to pick up the tab, she began to orchestrate it.
But of course, the government's position is she did it because she was really coerced and felt she had no choice and that's pretty, you know,
that's really the crux of the issue because the defense is going to say, hey, did you indicate to him that as Sean "Diddy" Combs that you were not
on board? Did you leave? Did you say you're not going to do this? Did you stand up for yourself? Did you do this? Did you do that?
Of course, she will say she really felt she could not because he was financially supporting her, in addition to controlling and orchestrating
her career.
[16:25:04]
So as you know, Paula, the issue of consent will be paramount. And how does the jury interpret consent? Is it no, no, or is it, hey, I just could not
say no because there was just this power dynamic that was so disproportionate that if I did so, I would be cut off completely.
So that's going to really, really play huge in terms of the jury's determination ultimately.
NEWTON: And we will continue to follow this case. Joey Jackson for us, thank you. Appreciate it.
Now, Kim Kardashian says she forgives one of the men accused of tying her up and robbing her at gunpoint. The reality T.V. star was testifying in
Paris about the 2016 burglary. Ten suspects are on trial. They're accused of breaking into her hotel room and stealing nearly $10 million worth of
cash and jewelry.
Saskya Vandoorne is in Paris for us.
Saskya, good to see you. The testimony was certainly riveting and at times extremely emotional.
You know, I was really struck about how she was talking about the terror that she experienced on that day, and yet, she is saying she forgives one
of them.
SASKYA VANDOORNE, CNN SENIOR PRODUCER: Yes. Extraordinary, Paula, as you say. I mean, it really was an emotional day for Kim Kardashian. She did
break down several times. She testified for almost five hours. And most of that she did standing up. It was only right at the end when you could
really tell that she was drained, that she asked to sit down, and she really transported us back to that night nine years ago, where she said,
two men barged into her room dressed as police officers.
One was pointing a gun at the concierge head, and the other one was yelling at her to hand over her jewelry. She was then duct-taped and placed in the
bath. She said she thought she was going to be raped that night, Paula.
She said she thought that she was going to be killed. She even said that her sister, Kourtney, who was clubbing whilst this robbery was taking
place, she feared she would -- that her sister would come home and find her dead on the bed. So you really get an idea of just how traumatic that was.
Now, inside that courtroom with her, ten people on trial, as you mentioned, nine men and one woman and the alleged ringleader, Aomar Ait Khedache, he
had written a letter for Kim Kardashian asking for forgiveness. As you said, it was read out in court by a judge and Kim Kardashian responded to
it. Let me read to you what she said.
She said: "I believe so much in second chances, and I want people who have done horrible crimes, and I try to have empathy for them. But I do also
fight for victims who have been through horrific crimes." And she then went on to forgive him.
She also said that this really changed her life, that now she felt differently towards how she posted on Instagram and social media, that she
was now much more cautious and that she paid a lot more attention to her security.
Now, Paula, two of the defendants are pleading guilty to some of the charges, but the remaining eight say that they had no part to play in the
heist at all -- Paula.
NEWTON: Okay, and we will continue to follow this trial. Saskya Vandoorne live from Paris, appreciate it.
Okay, coming up for us now, President Trump's trip to Saudi Arabia yields pledges of hundreds of billions of dollars in investment, as both countries
seek to reshape their economies.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:31:38]
NEWTON: Hello, I'm Paula Newton, and there's more QUEST MEANS BUSINESS in a moment when we'll head to Uruguay, where U.S. trade measures are pushing
its massive grain industry closer to China. And some of President Trump's most ardent supporters are questioning Qatar's offer of a Boeing jet.
Before that, though, the headlines this hour.
President Donald Trump says he will lift U.S. sanctions on Syria. Mr. Trump made the announcement during a visit to Saudi Arabia. The president is
expected to greet Syrian leader Ahmad al-Zahra in Riyadh on Wednesday. He's a former al-Qaeda militant who broke away from the terror group in 2016.
The ex-girlfriend of Sean "Diddy" Combs told prosecutors she was physically abused by the music mogul. Cassie Ventura is one of the accusers in Combs's
sex trafficking trial. She testified that Combs controlled her career and that she didn't want to make him angry. Combs is facing federal case of
racketeering conspiracy and sex trafficking. He's pleaded not guilty to all charges.
A court in Paris has found Gerard Depardieu guilty of sexual assault. The French actor was accused of sexually assaulting two women on a film set in
2021. He was handed an 18-month suspended prison sentence. Depardieu repeatedly denied any wrongdoing, and his lawyers said he would appeal the
sentence.
Returning now to our top story, the U.S. and Saudi Arabia signed new deals to expand their partnership on defense and A.I. The White House says the
agreements include a record-breaking $142 billion defense deal. Saudi Arabia also pledged $20 billion to develop A.I. data centers and energy
infrastructure throughout the United States.
Now it's an effort by both countries to shape their economies in their own national political interest, a concept Gillian Tett wrote about in a recent
"Financial Times" column. And Gillian Tett joins us now.
Good to see you, as we continue to watch the spectacle in Saudi Arabia and beyond. OK, so the new catch phrase, geoeconomics, it is a growing academic
field. You know, I would call it economic coercion by any other name. How was it fully on display in Saudi Arabia and in terms of really getting --
go ahead.
GILLIAN TETT, COLUMNIST, FINANCIAL TIMES: I was going to say, you can also just call it back to the future because we're back to a world where foreign
policy and economic policy is all about national self-interest in a very direct, unconcealed way. It's about power. It's about essentially trying to
use whatever economic and financial tools you can to essentially assert your dominance. And that is absolutely what President Trump has been doing.
He's doing it in a very transactional way. And certainly Saudi Arabia and much of the Middle East is very used to that kind of transactional foreign
policy and economic policy making. And so, in a way, you've had a meeting of minds between the Saudi rulers and President Trump.
NEWTON: You know, Gillian, there's a lot of, as I said, academic interest in this right now. A lot of academic research.
[16:35:01]
Some would say that this went on all the time behind closed doors. Is that true? Because perhaps some would say the Trump administration is just
putting on full display everything that went on in the backrooms before.
TETT: Well, certainly a cynic would say that America has always been self- interested and always used the economic and financial levers at its disposal to promote its national self-interest. So no one is going to
pretend that after World War II, America was a paragon of virtue and self- sacrifice. But in the post-war era, there was at least the rhetoric and often the policies to promote international collaboration.
I mean, the World Trade Organization was a perfect example of that. And there was also this belief that what mattered was countries' absolute well-
being and welfare rather than their relative well-being. It wasn't just who was top of the pile and who was getting rich than everyone else. It was
that working together, there was this idea that countries could all collaborate and all get wealthier together.
And what's really changed now is that any sense of a collaborative world is really being smashed apart by this strong focus on American national
interests at all costs, and an absolute determination that America has to essentially dominate and triumph and win. And when Donald Trump says that
actually other countries have been ripping America off, other countries would say, well, hang on a sec, America looks pretty wealthy by the
standards of the global economy. It seems to have done very well.
But actually, what Donald Trump, President Trump is thinking about is relative power and relative wealth. And above all else, the fact that China
has been swelling in power and wealth and is starting to challenge America.
NEWTON: It's interesting. You know, you point out that some people have said that companies need to really take a close look at this, and perhaps
some of the largest should even have specialists in this new geoeconomics. But I am more intrigued by what you say that, look, this isn't just
President Trump. This isn't a second term President Trump thing. You believe this is ongoing and we'll see it more.
TETT: Well, it's been building up for some time. Because if you look back in the last 150 years, intellectual fashions move in cycles a bit like
clothes. When hemlines go up, hemlines go down. So if you go back 150 years ago, we had sort of, you know, imperialist capitalism. Then after World War
I, in the years between World War I and World War II, we had very nationalist, protectionist populism approaches to the economic policy
making, much of which, by the way, is being rediscovered today.
It looks quite similar, some of the strategies to what we saw in the interwar years. Then after World War II, we had Keynesianism, when the
government got involved in trying to direct demand in the economy. And then, of course, in the 1980s, we had Ronald Reagan and Margaret Thatcher
unleashed neoliberal free market economics. So we've had these pendulum swings before.
What we're seeing right now is something quite different from free market neoliberal economics. And it's quite different from the collaborative
vision of Keynesianism we saw after World War II. It's very much about raw power. It's about hegemonic policy making. It's about, if you like,
nationalist self-protection and self-determination. And it's a pretty aggressive, brutal world, but it's also a very transactional world where
issues around tech and military and economics and finance are all jumbled together, as we've just seen in terms of President Trump's visit to Saudi
Arabia.
NEWTON: With so many companies and countries around the world now trying to figure out how to leverage their comparative advantage as all of this is
unfolding.
Grateful to you, Gillian Tett. You've outed me as a cynic, unfortunately, but all too true. I'll work on that, Gillian. Thank you so much. Appreciate
it.
Now, the S&P 500 is in positive territory. That's for the year after, as we all know, getting off to that rocky start. It finished today's session less
than 1 percent higher. And the Nasdaq gained 1.6 percent. And that's a reaction to easing U.S. inflation and a de-escalation in the trade war
between the U.S. and China.
Now that detente does little to resolve uncertainty about the future. CNN's Dariel Klein shows us how President Trump's tariff moves are pushing
Uruguay and its grain industry closer to China.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DARIO KLEIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The trade war between U.S. and China have different meanings in other parts of the world. For example, here in
Uruguay and other parts of South America, China means mainly this, exports, rivers of grains, mainly soy, salt by millions to China.
(Voice-over): This is Nueva Palmira, Uruguay's main bulk cargo port. It's from here that most of the country's soy leaves for China.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you.
[16:40:03]
KLEIN: Will Desheng (PH) is in charge of operations at Corporacion Naviera, running one of the port's three terminals.
He says his terminal exported 1.8 million tons of soy last year.
Two-thirds. Two-thirds going to China.
(Voice-over): The country had a record production in 2024. And this year won't be much different.
Twenty-five thousand tons per day. We are in the middle of the soy harvest season. From now on trucks like this, they come one after the other. Plenty
of soy. This is -- these are soy beans.
(Voice-over): Much of it already in storage ready to go.
This is one of the smallest silos they have here.
(Voice-over): Soy and other exports to China last year were worth more than $3 billion. That's 4 percent of the country's GDP.
China is individually the most important trading partner of Uruguay, but not only of Uruguay, also Argentina, Brazil, and other neighboring
countries have China as one of the most important trading partners.
(Voice-over): A close relationship which could become even closer.
This is a tax free zone. No tariffs here.
(Voice-over): Uruguay is negotiating a free trade agreement with China and South America's Mercosur is also pursuing closer economic ties with
Beijing. As much as this region may want to keep the United States happy, they want to keep China happier.
Dario Klein, CNN, Nueva Palmira, Uruguay.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
NEWTON: CNN's Nick Paton Walsh asks Ukraine's President Zelenskyy if he'd be a failure if the potential meeting with Vladimir Putin doesn't end with
a ceasefire. We'll have his report after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:45:15]
NEWTON: Ukraine's President Volodymyr Zelenskyy says the minimum goal of any potential talks with Vladimir Putin will be to, of course, secure a
ceasefire. Now the Russian president has not yet agreed to attend talks in Turkey on Thursday. President Zelenskyy says he expects his Western allies
to hit Russia with strong sanctions if it doesn't agree to a 30-day truce.
Nick Paton Walsh attended President Zelenskyy's news conference in Kyiv. He joins me now.
Nick, we're really interested to hear what he told you, but obviously this issue of sanctions, other allies have said they'll move forward. The United
States still has not committed to that.
NICK PATON WALSH, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yes. And, you know, the issue of the timing of when these sanctions might potentially
come in is shifting to back Saturday, when four key European powers came here, the French, the British, the Germans and the Polish, it felt like if
the Russians didn't sign on to a ceasefire, unconditional 30 days beginning Monday, sanctions would kick in.
But that appears to have got a bit looser. We now hear Zelenskyy suggesting that those sanctions should come in if Putin doesn't attend this particular
meeting. Zelenskyy clear that he will go to Turkey for Thursday. It means he has to leave tomorrow, frankly, just get to the train out and then fly,
and that he will go to Ankara first, the Turkish capital, to meet Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan.
And then, in the avoidance of any doubt, he said, to prevent any sort of manipulation by the Kremlin, if Putin flies to Istanbul, he and Erdogan
will go to Istanbul. But he did, when I spoke to him earlier, lay out some minimal goals, frankly, for what he thinks the Kremlin has to do outside of
attend the meeting in the first place in order for peace to continue in terms of negotiations.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PATON WALSH: If this meeting does go ahead and does not result in an immediate 30-day ceasefire, will you consider that to have been a failure?
VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT: No, of course it's meant that Russia is not ready for diplomacy. It means only one side. It's only about
Russia, but has been, if they will not, if Putin will not come or if ceasefire will not be supported by Russians, by Putin, exactly by him. So
it's been only one thing that Russia is not ready for any kind of negotiation, no time for play games on the technical level, et cetera. It's
mean, it means that they are not, I mean, this supportive, all of these things and it means only one thing that we need to be more strong, unite
and tough on them.
And today I see only one thing. Sanctions. Of course. Of course, if I will have connection with the President Trump. Of course, not only sanctions,
and I will tell him so you see that we need that sanctions have to be powerful, and we need a little bit of time for this. When sanctions be --
will have influence.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PATON WALSH: So we have this extraordinary 48 hours ahead of us, where it is not clear at this point, if indeed Russian President Vladimir Putin will
attend a summit in Istanbul that was essentially his own idea. He proposed in response to the ceasefire demand on Saturday that there could be direct
talks between Russia and Ukraine. It was Zelenskyy who upped that, saying, well, I'll go personally. Putin should come and meet me.
Today in that press conference, he essentially held out the possibility that Putin might be afraid to meet face to face. Look, I think possibly the
Kremlin has the situation playing out somewhat in his favor in that Trump has made it clear he may attend if Putin attends. And we know how much
Putin likes the world to be kind of hanging on his decision.
I think it might be fair to suggest that he will be reluctant to spurn the full opportunity there to meet Trump, less probably interested in meeting
Zelenskyy, frankly, but that opportunity to continue the peace idea that the White House have started here is probably preferable to Putin than
shunning everything entirely.
We just don't know where we're going to be. We have this feeling, possibly, that the Russians are preparing a cabinet level delegation. That's
certainly what the Americans have said will be going. U.S. Secretary of State Marco Rubio will be in the country then anyway. He's likely to attend
something in Istanbul, but it's a make or break moment, really, and it's one where Trump will play significant influence.
The pressure to get Putin to go, but possibly more importantly, the consequences if Moscow shuns this meeting. Will there indeed be the massive
sanctions the French talked about? That's still unclear -- Paula.
NEWTON: As you indicate, a crucial 48 hours upcoming.
Nick Paton Walsh for us in Kyiv. Appreciate it.
[16:50:01]
Now, some right-wing Republicans are warning Donald Trump against accepting a jet from Qatar. We'll look at why some in the conservative media are
coming out against the $400 million gift.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
NEWTON: President Trump is facing more fallout over his plan to accept a luxury jet from the Qatari royal family. The top Senate Democrat says he
wants more answers about the $400 million gift, and he's putting a hold on Justice Department appointees until he gets them. One of Donald Trump's
biggest supporters, they're also criticizing the offer. Right-wing commentator Laura Loomer posted on X that accepting this gift would be a,
quote, "stain on the administration," noting that she is someone who would take a bullet for Trump.
Here's more reaction from some conservative pundits and politicians.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BEN SHAPIRO, RIGHT-WING COMMENTATOR: President Trump promised to drain the swamp. This is not, in fact, draining the swamp.
BATYA UNGAR-SARGON, AUTHOR, "SECOND CLASS": This is not a gift. This is Qatar, a state sponsor of terror that has Hamas in the palm of its hand,
giving a bribe.
SEN. JOSH HAWLEY (R-MO): That'll probably sweep the plane, right? But I think the bigger issue is, is we can build stuff in the United States.
REP. MIKE JOHNSON (R-LA): I haven't had a chance to even look at that yet.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NEWTON: OK. Brian Stelter joins me now.
Apparently, it takes a flying palace to get MAGA supporters to speak out against the president.
BRIAN STELTER, CNN CHIEF MEDIA ANALYST: And this is the most intense pushback that I have seen since Trump returned to office. This is the most
dramatic example of right-wing commentators, talk show hosts, podcasters, influencers speaking out against the Trump idea. Now, we don't know if this
idea will go through. The White House says it's still under review. We'll see if it comes up when Trump travels to Qatar in the coming hours.
But it is remarkable that Laura Loomer, who has a direct line to Trump, is basically trying to get him to not follow through with this plan. We've
also heard from figures like Ben Shapiro, who was in that montage, saying that he wants Trump to succeed, but this kind of scandal will actually hurt
Trump. And that's really the theme of these commentaries. These people saying scandals will hurt you. Don't do this, back down, and we'll see if
Trump actually listens.
NEWTON: It was Jon Stewart, though, Brian, I have to say, who really got to the hypocrisy of this. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JON STEWART, LATE-NIGHT HOST: It's a jet from Qatar. We can trust them. They're not suspect like Canada, or working to undermine us like all of our
other democratic allies in Europe.
[16:55:05]
JON KARL, ABC NEWS: Qatar is considered an American ally but it is also an ally of Iran and China and even Hamas.
STEWART: Oh. Trump is going to take a $400 million jet from people he would expel from Columbia University.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NEWTON: It is cutting, isn't it, Brian? And fascinating that you say to me that this is really the most outrage you've seen from MAGA media on
something like this.
STELTER: It is. Look, Democratic lawmakers are calling this unethical and potentially illegal, but it's more surprising to hear MAGA media
commentators calling this a bribe and a grift and a stain on the administration. A lot of this criticism, as you hear, centers on Qatar,
centers on the relationship with Hamas. That goes back a long time. But the complaints are multifold, with some people saying, hey, if Joe Biden did
this, we'd be up in arms, so we should not be hypocrites about this.
Now, I'm not seeing as much of this on television as I am on the internet, and we know President Trump is addicted to FOX News. He watches a lot of
TV. So I don't know if this law ultimately break through to the American president. But during Trump's first term, we heard a lot about guardrails.
In his second term, there is no guard, there are no rails. But occasionally public pressure and criticism do still matter. And we're going to find out
if this is one of those times.
NEWTON: Yes, there are no guard. There are no rails. I want to point out also that in Saudi Arabia, as Donald Trump continually said, that maybe I
like the crown prince too much. But I do want to quote from a CIA report because the report said this is a CIA intelligence report that says of the
killing of Jamal Khashoggi, we assessed that Saudi Arabia's Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman approved an operation in Istanbul, Turkey, to capture
or kill Saudi journalist Jamal Khashoggi.
Brian, I mean, is this the kind of thing that you believe will also bubble up eventually, as you said, even MAGA seems to have, you know, be the guard
and the rail at this point in time?
STELTER: You have a longer memory than many of these figures who find it convenient to have short-term memories. That's what I'm noticing today as
we see coverage of this trip. So much short-term memory loss, people forgetting what happened a short number of years ago. Look at the CEOs
surrounding Trump and the Saudi royals today. You know, CEOs from companies like Amazon.
It was only five years ago, six years ago, that Amazon's Jeff Bezos was accusing the Saudi government of trying to bribe him and, you know, and
create a scandal in that way. So there are a lot of people who have some memory loss when it comes to Saudi.
NEWTON: Yes. And as was pointed out to me today, the Biden administration itself on Saudi did do an about face on this, given the geopolitics of the
situation. So we will wait to see what MAGA says about this.
Brian Stelter, thanks so much. Good to see you.
That is QUEST MEANS BUSINESS. I'm Paula Newton. "THE LEAD WITH JAKE TAPPER" is next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
END
