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Quest Means Business

Musk and Trump Trade Barbs Over Tax and Spending Bill Cuts; Israel Carries Out Strikes on Beirut's Southern Suburbs; Indian Economy Enjoys Strong Growth Despite Headwinds; German Chancellor Merz Meets President Trump at the White House; Indian Hotels Company CEO on Quality over Quantity of Brands; Air India CEO on Expansion in Every Geography. Aired 4- 5p ET

Aired June 05, 2025 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[16:00:08]

RICHARD QUEST, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST, "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS": Closing bell ringing on Wall Street. The market is lower. We've got all sorts of things

going on at the moment.

The NASDAQ has been dragged down quite sharply. Tesla is lower. Hit the gavel and trading -- oh look at that -- trading is coming to an end. A busy

day. We've got the NASDAQ off sharply because of what is happening with Tesla. I will explain that to you. Those are the markets and these are the

main events of the day.

A very public falling out. President Trump and Elon Musk are now trading barbs and insults on social media. The President is even floating the idea

of terminating Musk's government contracts. It has gone so badly wrong.

A turning point for India. The economy here has grown more than seven percent in Q1.

And the head of the Indian hotels group talks tonight about what customers really want.

Now, for most of you, it is Thursday, June the 5th. We have already elegantly slipped into Friday, June the 6th. We are in New Delhi tonight

for a Special Edition of QUEST MEANS BUSINESS because in India, as elsewhere, I am Richard Quest and I mean business.

Good evening from Delhi. Our show earlier in the week was all about IATA and aviation, so tonight we are all about the Indian economy and the Indian

country. The Indian economy has enjoyed strong growth in recent years, and that's just scratching the surface when you think of the size, scale, and

potential.

The country has the ingredients for long-term success, which is what we are looking at tonight. More than a billion people here and the demographics

considerably younger than me.

India's business leaders are excited about the future.

Tonight on this program, you're going to hear the chair of PwC India, Sanjeev Krishan will be with me in just a moment or three. The chief

executive of Air India, owned by Tata, of course, tells me all about the airline's expansion to pretty much everywhere. And another Tata subsidiary,

the Indian Hotel CEO, explains why his company has so many brands, Taj Hotels is one of them where we are tonight.

Before all of that, let me bring you the news of the day.

Donald Trump and Elon Musk are trading insults that seem to be getting ever more offensive and nastier on social media. Elon Musk has become a major

critic of the President's tax and spending cuts bill since he left the White House, and that was only last week.

The disagreement came to a head during the President's meeting with the German Chancellor, Friedrich Merz, where Musk lashed out against Trump in

real time on X after the President seemed to disavow him.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Elon and I had a great relationship. I don't know if we will anymore. I was surprised

because you were here, everybody in this room practically was here as we had a wonderful sendoff. He said wonderful things about me. He couldn't

have nicer said the best things.

He has worn the hat, Trump was right about everything, and I am right about the great, Big Beautiful Bill.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

QUEST: Jeff Zeleny is with me. My goodness, this hasn't just gone off the rails, it has gone over the cliff. We've got the President threatening

Musk's government contracts. We've got Musk with unfounded allegations that we know of so far about Jeffrey Epstein and the President -- the Epstein

files.

My goodness, this has gone wrong.

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: It certainly has. I mean, we are sort of losing adjectives to describe this acrimonious is what

it seemed a couple hours ago. It has gone well beyond that, but it is quite extraordinary and actually, not that hard to believe when you think back to

this relationship that came together just about a year or so ago.

And boy, was it a partnership, $275 million Elon Musk spent in Pennsylvania alone to help elect Donald Trump. he has been a core part of the Trump

administration.

There is no one who is closer to the President aside from family members than Elon Musk, slept in the Lincoln bedroom, traveled with him on Air

Force One, was literally part of his Cabinet formation process. No one would have the ability to stand in the Oval Office, hold court like that.

Well, this has all blown up in spectacular fashion all over the idea that you know, this this Trump policy bill, Elon Musk believes it does not trim

government. There is more to it than that, though.

[16:05:04]

Richard, one thing I am learning today, that one thing that has really gotten under Elon Musk's skin is the space administrator, the NASA

administrator was a close friend of Elon Musk's, and he was through the Senate, ready to be confirmed and after Musk stepped aside, the White House

sacked him.

QUEST: Right.

ZELENY: And that got under Elon Musk's skin, and now, he is furious about it.

QUEST: But look, I suppose one can be at one level really basic about this and say, yes, everybody always said that the two would -- the bromance

would eventually come to an end. The fact it has in such spectacular fashion, but it is more serious than that, isn't it, Jeff?

We now have the world's richest man and the world's most powerful man trading childlike insults, getting offensive at times, and the rest of us

are just pawns in this game.

ZELENY: Without question, and there are deep policy potential fallout from this. I mean, the President of the United States is threatening the

government contracts of Elon Musk. What does that mean exactly? Well, Starlink, of course, it provides internet access to a good portion of the

world. SpaceX, of course, has major contracts.

So perhaps this is one of the reasons you can see what the Tesla stock is doing right there just because of all of this, but this is perhaps one of

the reasons that conflicts of interest actually matter, and there have been so many conflicts of interest going about through all this.

But the President, just a short time ago, is threatening to erase all the government contracts. I would be surprised if he does that, because, quite

frankly, the U.S. needs the technology that the Musk companies have. I mean, it is not just you know, a charity work that he has been providing,

it is actual work for the military.

So we don't know where this is going from here. One question is, how long does Elon Musk sort of focus on this? Will he just kind of blow off some

steam and then move on to his businesses? We shall see.

If he decides to try and tank this Trump policy agenda or run against Republicans, boy, we are in uncharted terrain. No question.

QUEST: Yes, I say this tongue in cheek, Jeff, as I thank you, how very quaint to be talking of conflict of interest. Gosh, very old fashioned of

us both.

Good to talk to you, sir, Jeff Zeleny.

Hadas is this with me. Hadas Gold in New York.

Conflict of interest? Tesla is down 14 percent, not surprising if that's what we are seeing at the moment. But we've also got Starlink, which by all

accounts is an absolutely magnificent system. You've got Tesla, you've got the whole SpaceX, so Hadas Gold with me at the moment, where does this go?

And how bad is this?

HADAS GOLD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, I mean, listen, I am sure if you're a Tesla investor, you are just absolutely groaning right now because after

all of the drama of Tesla or of Elon Musk being involved in DOGE and seeing the stock price fall and seeing all of the attacks on Tesla dealerships and

seeing the sales numbers drop, there was a lot of optimism that Elon Musk was leaving the government, he was focusing all of his might on his

companies, saying he was going to be seeing 24/7 sleeping on the factory floors, he was completely focused and a lot of people, a lot of the

investors, a lot of people also at these companies were excited. They said, this is the Elon that we want back. We want him out of politics and we want

him back focused on his businesses.

And now the last 24 hours seems to have completely imploded this, because if you think about the Tesla brand, Elon Musk is now essentially almost

alienating potentially a lot of customers. He already alienated a lot of that sort of liberal base customer that loved the E.V. cars for Tesla,

worried about climate change and now that his alliance with Donald Trump, he has alienated them over that, and now he is potentially alienating a lot

of the base who were aligning themselves with him because of his support of Donald Trump.

Just a few weeks ago, President Trump was on the White House lawn essentially doing a Tesla infomercial. So how will this affect Tesla's

businesses going forward? And then, of course, there is, as you mentioned, all the question of those government contracts.

Now, some government contracts, I mean, NASA has a contract with SpaceX to help him get to the moon, I don't know, even if the International Space

Station can function without SpaceX, but there are other contracts there that you have to wonder how those could be affected, and also, all of those

investigations into Elon Musk connected companies, all of those regulations that were being removed that could have potentially helped Elon Musk, will

we see those now come back now that this relationship has completely imploded?

QUEST: Hadas Gold, grateful for you. Thank you very much indeed. Thank you.

We will talk more about that as this story develops during the course of the hour.

The Israeli military says it has carried out strikes in Beirut's southern suburbs. The IDF says it is targeting facilities that produce thousands of

Iranian funded drones for Hezbollah. Video from Beirut shows an explosion followed by a large cloud of dust. Earlier in the night, the IDF, the

Israeli defense forces has warned -- warning that triggered mass evacuations and panic.

[16:10:14]

Our military analyst, Cedric Leighton is with me.

If I remember correctly, this has only happened in the last couple of hours. But if I remember correctly, there is supposed to be some form of

ceasefire in existence at the northern part with Lebanon, with Hezbollah of sorts, so this could deteriorate and it could expand.

COL. CEDRIC LEIGHTON (RET), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Yes, that's absolutely true, Richard.

One of the factors in this is that ceasefire, which was reached in November between Hezbollah and Israel and with the United States brokering that. So

far, what we know is that the Israelis targeted ostensibly four of the suburbs around Beirut in the southern part of Beirut, particularly the

Dinniyeh neighborhood and that is a Hezbollah stronghold.

And you're right, it is all about the drones, in fact, what we believe is that the Israelis have targeted drone factories that Hezbollah has. The

idea being that they feared a launch from these Hezbollah drones against Israel and it may have been something that was you know, intended to

perhaps replicate what happened in Russia with the Ukrainians.

So this is something that, you know, of course, is very important to Israel and they apparently acted on a tip to do this.

QUEST: Yes, it is fascinating and worrying at the same time, but the Ukrainian attack on Russia, strategic bombers. Just this week I was here at

the aviation conference and the entire industry was trying to work out the ramifications of drones that can autonomously identify aircraft, and now,

we are seeing -- Cedric, give me a feel for how far we have understood the tentacles and possible ramifications of that attack on Russia.

LEIGHTON: Yes, I think we don't really understand all the ramifications of that attack, Richard. But the part that we are really focused on right now

is the A.I. enabled part of this. And, you know, you hit it right on the head because one of the key things here is that these drones, at least some

of them that the Ukrainians launched against these Russian air bases, they were able to move forward autonomously even without communications

connections, because they already had the target preprogramed in them.

Now, preprograming targets, at least in terms of geographic coordinates, is really nothing new, we've been doing that for decades, but what is new is

that they are not preprogramming according to coordinates, they are preprogramming these drones and their associated weapons, based on images

and basically comparing a stored image with what the drone actually sees at that particular moment in time, and when there is a match, that's when the

target is struck.

QUEST: Cedric, I am grateful. Thank you very much indeed. Cedric Leighton giving us the ramifications of that. We will follow the Israel attacks in

Southern Beirut, and as that develops, I will bring you more information on it.

In just a moment, as we take a break, afterwards, we are in Delhi tonight. It is 1:45 in the morning, so I am extremely grateful that the chair of PwC

India has stayed up late and coming to join the discussion on the country's fastest growing economy. It is -- we've kept him up with a bit of coffee --

after the break. QUEST MEANS BUSINESS.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:16:25]

QUEST: Welcome back New Delhi. Just to let you know that we know President Trump is now speaking. It is a prepared speech that the President is giving

at the moment. But of course, the moment he does start talking on matters that we are dealing with, we will join the President to hear what he has to

say, if he does say something, but obviously we don't want to just hear the usual stuff.

All right, now India's economy has been on the upward swing in recent years. It is in spite of itself. The phrase I always use is it trips over

its own shoelaces at the last hurdle.

Now, if you take a look at the business landscape here, you can't help but think, there is a potential for so much more. Everybody agrees New Delhi

has made bold decisions and now is starting to capitalize on the many assets that exist.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

QUEST (voice over): In the crowded streets of Delhi and the towering offices of Mumbai, the transformation is well underway.

India's economy is growing fast, shedding a reputation for cheap offshore labor, now powered by more than 500 million workers. India produces cars,

pharmaceuticals and refined metals. Even the phone in your pocket might have been assembled right here.

Apple, Microsoft, Amazon are all expanding their footholds in the country. There is no lack of ambition here.

QUEST (on camera): It may be 20 years since I first came to India, but the country never fails to impress and make me overawed with everything that is

here.

From the Mughal architecture of the Red Fort to the blistering traffic that somehow keeps moving, to the vibrancy of the economy that moves into the

Digital Age, juxtapose the modern with the traditional, and you have what makes India tick.

QUEST (voice over): The Prime Minister, Narendra Modi, says India will be a developed economy by 2047.

PATU KESWANI, CHAIR, LEMON TREE HOTELS: Look at the U.S., '83 to the golden years, four percent plus growth. Look at China, 12 percent growth. I think

India is on that path, finally.

QUEST (voice over): Striking a trade deal with the U.S. will be crucial.

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Thank you very much.

QUEST (voice over): All throughout this economy, India is leaving profits on the table. About half of the workforce is employed in farming and

agriculture is just a small portion of the overall GDP.

Millions of workers enter the workforce each year, but only about half of the working age population is actually employed. Tensions with Pakistan

next door have also raised concerns for investors. The terror attack in Kashmir took the lives of 26 people this spring.

India has said Pakistan was to blame, which Islamabad denies. The two nations traded strikes for weeks. Maintaining the ceasefire could be the

key for India to maintain its strong growth. The country now has the world's fifth largest economy and is projected to soon surpass Japan,

becoming the fourth.

AMITABH KANT, INDIA G20 SHERPA: Our ambition is that by the time we become a hundred in 2047, we should be close to a 30-plus trillion dollar economy.

QUEST (voice over) Foreign investment is hitting record highs. If India can harness its potential, it could become a defining economic story of the

21st Century. Otherwise, it could risk squandering the moment completely.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

[16:20:10]

QUEST (on camera): Now Sanjeev Krishan is with me, the chair of PwC. Sir, how kind of you to stay up very late and join us at nearly 2:00 in the

morning, and I apologize if we have to dash off to hear what the President is saying.

And I don't know, what is it that India needs to do? I mean, everywhere -- I am tired of hearing people say how good the potential is. That's a given.

The number of people, the number of the youth and all of that, but what does it need to do to get to the next level?

SANJEEV KRISHAN, CHAIR, PWC INDIA: I think there are four things that are really, first of all, invest. We need to be able to invest more. I think

Indian balance sheets are very, very healthy, $179 billion of profit for the 50 companies and I think we need to be able to invest more. I think

that's the first thing.

Second is that we possibly need to now look at diversifying our export basket. And I think clearly, the India-Middle East corridor, which India is

focusing on, will make sure that India goes all the way to Europe. So there is a need to diversify our export basket. I think that's the second one.

Third thing is greater engagement between the private sector in particular and the government and that is essential because in the past, when we have

done FTAs, for instance, we haven't got the best benefit of it because the exports haven't really gone up. So that's the third thing.

And the final thing I would say really is to stay very, very aware of what's happening because it is not just a bilateral game, it is a

multilateral game.

QUEST: And on that point, you've got geopolitical, regional tensions. Now, you've got trade tariffs. And today, of course, you've got potentially the

world's richest and the world's most powerful arguing.

India is a regional superpower. It has a huge stake at the table, but it risks getting caught between all the big superpowers.

KRISHAN: Yes, I mean, you know like everywhere else, investors want certainty and uncertainty can actually be a big dampener because how do you

plan for the future? And I think that's the big, big thing from an India standpoint.

Capital will become harder if you can't plan for the future. Youve seen M&A actually go down, for instance, over the last six to nine months in sectors

like pharmaceutical, automotive. So uncertainty is the challenge.

QUEST: Because things like pharmaceuticals threaten to be very badly affected, for example, if the tariff war shifts. We've already seen steel

very badly affected. And I am wondering, does India have to make hard choices about where it aligns itself? Because one of the things the Modi

government has been very good at is the stability of policy.

KRISHAN: Yes, I think we have to play on our strengths. I would say we have done many good things. We have actually, as I said, got very strong balance

sheets. Our fiscal is in good position. The inflation in the last six months have been going down. So, we have many things going for us.

If you look at it, today, we have actually -- apart from services, big focus on manufacturing. You know, in terms of production incentives and so

on and so forth.

The execution of that has to come out stronger. And to my mind --

QUEST: Sorry, forgive me interrupting, but that has always been India's Achilles heel.

KRISHAN: Yes.

QUEST: It is no lack of entrepreneurial spirit and ambition, but as I use the phrase earlier, tripping over the shoelaces right at the last hurdle.

KRISHAN: Yes, I think the last mile has been a challenge at times. And I think with the states and the center working in sync, you see Indian states

competing for investments now in Davos, of all places with states and centers working in sync because, you know, land and labor, for instance,

are state policies.

And with that coming in -- go ahead.

QUEST: No, no, no.

KRISHAN: Yes, with those now coming in sync, I do believe that India will be a much more investable place in times to come.

QUEST: The gap, it is not just the haves and the have-nots, that's in the West. Here, you're talking about abject poverty. You're talking about, you

know, on the street, extraordinary levels of poverty. I understand that the rising tide lifts all boats, and that's the economic goal. But the gap is

so humongous in this country. How do you square that circle?

KRISHAN: I think it is -- we've made very good progress over the last many years. I think the per capita income has continued to go up. I think we

still have a distance to go. But we do believe with everything that India has done, and now India has the fourth largest economy. You know, we are

anticipating that we will be the third largest economy soon and that, with enhancements and productivity enhancement and factor costs, which makes us

more productive, more cost competitive over a period of time, hopefully and please don't forget that services continues to be a very significant

component.

Skilled people are focusing on A.I., creating opportunities for the globe. Indian GCCs, for instance, are big employment generators, and I think that

will continue to narrow the gap between the have-nots and the haves.

[16:25:05]

QUEST: Does India eventually have to choose between the West and the East? We saw it to a certain extent with Ukraine, you know, where it didn't join

in with the sanctions. Modi has done a very good job of juggling all the balls, but how much longer can that go on? Do you think there is a moment

when you have to choose?

KRISHAN: I think India has always been nonaligned, and we have managed to make sure that we are able to, in some ways, work with the East and the

West. And I don't see that changing.

I think we have been a very responsible business partner across most of our trading partners, whether it is the U.S., whether it is, you know, indeed,

with many countries in the East, and I don't think that will change. However, we will make -- we will make economic decisions which are best for

the country and which leverage our strengths, which is our people, our demographics, our focus on technology are more and more competitive factor

cost and greater focus now on manufacturing.

QUEST: And we are grateful, sir, at your focus to come along and talk to us this evening at 2:00 in the morning. Thank you.

KRISHAN: My pleasure. Thank you very much.

QUEST: Thank you very much indeed.

As you and I continue, today, coming up, President Trump's meeting with the German Chancellor comes at a critical time for Europe's largest economy. I

will talk to the former U.S. Ambassador to Germany. It is after the break. QUEST MEANS BUSINESS.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

QUEST: Hello, I'm Richard Quest. We've got a lot more QUEST MEANS BUSINESS together.

The chief executive of Air India says he wants people to choose his airline because it is good, not because it comes from a particular country.

And the Indian Hotels CEO takes me on a tour of the Taj Mahal, which is behind me, and tells me what makes this company special, only after the

news headlines, though, because this is CNN and here, the news comes first.

Simmering tensions between President Donald Trump and Elon Musk have now exploded into the open two days after Mr. Musk slammed the tax and spending

bill as a disgusting abomination. Now President Trump suggested he may terminate U.S. government contracts and subsidies given to Musk's

companies, saying that's the easiest way to save money.

President Trump has banned travel to the U.S. from 19 countries. That starts next Monday. The administration says it's a response to high rates

of nationals overstaying their visas. The president is using the recent attack in Boulder, Colorado, as justification, but the suspect is from

Egypt, and that's a country that's not on the list.

The German Chancellor Friedrich Merz says President Trump is the key person to bring an end to Russia's war in Ukraine. The German leader was talking

to Donald Trump at the White House and urged him to put pressure on Moscow. Mr. Merz doubled down on Germany's commitment to Kyiv.

So that visit by Merz to the White House is at a critical time for Germany, Europe, and its relationship with the United States. Germany has a lot to

lose from the U.S. tariffs on products like cars and steel. And the president, President Trump, struck a positive note on the trade talks with

the E.U.

So president and chancellor. Well, the chancellor was keen to keep Ukraine at the top of the agenda.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FRIEDRICH MERZ, GERMAN CHANCELLOR: America is again in a very strong position to do something on this war and ending this war. So let's talk

about what we can do jointly. And we are ready to do what we can. And you know that we gave support to Ukraine and that we are looking for more

pressure on Russia. The European union did. And we should talk about that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

QUEST: John Emerson is with me, former U.S. ambassador to Germany.

Ambassador, Friedrich Merz is far too wily to get caught up in Oval Office nonsense. But at the same time, he knew he had to get something out of

this. Do you think he did the job?

JOHN EMERSON, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO GERMANY: Oh, absolutely. I think it was a very positive meeting. Certainly went a lot better than what's

happening between Trump and Musk these days. And I think they've got to be very happy. I mean, he made his point about the need to stand up against

Russian aggression and the importance of the U.S. in that. Trump did not really push back on that. I think that was good.

The president committed to keep the American troops in Germany. You may recall toward the end of Trump's first term, that was an issue. They were

talking about withdrawing some of those troops. So that was important. And I guarantee you, they talked about trade if not in the Oval, in the private

meeting in the Oval, because Friedrich Merz, who I know quite well from my time in Germany, is very much a free trader.

We spent a lot of time working on trying to negotiate the TTIP free trade agreement between the E.U. and the U.S., which ultimately, unfortunately,

did not come to fruition. But I think he probably made some points on that as well.

QUEST: The ability to get Germany, I mean, he's got huge domestic problems. He has to turn Germany around and he has to make it a more efficient and a

more entrepreneurial and a faster growing economy. Can he do that at the same time as balancing off these trade tensions with the United States?

EMERSON: Well, I think so. I mean, one source of trade tension is the regulatory structure of the E.U. The fact that the E.U. regulates why

America innovates and Friedrich Merz is very much wanting to push on that. That's an issue that Trump talks about as a non-tariff barrier to trade.

All the regulations in the E.U. He is doing everything he can to take one of the big pain points in the relationship off the table, which is

committing to get to the 5 percent of GDP for defense spending, cyber defense, that sort of thing.

He's been a leader on that within NATO, and he's taken some very, very quick steps to try to goose the German economy with -- by releasing funds

for design for innovation. And that, again, I think is something that will both help Germany and also help to strengthen the transatlantic

relationship.

[16:35:01]

QUEST: I wonder here whether Merz, the expectations following from drift of the last few years, they're so huge for Merz. Do you think he and Donald

Trump are cut of the same cloth, bearing in mind they're very different? They are very different in temperament, but they are both very focused.

EMERSON: Well, they are both very focused. It's kind of interesting. I've always thought they would actually have an accommodative relationship. I

mean, if you think about it, they both represent the more conservative party. Obviously, Merz isn't from the MAGA AfD, but he's from the

conservative party. They both were in business and then came into politics. I mean, Merz is a rarity in European politics. Somebody who was in

government went out to the business world, was successful there, and then came back in to lead a government. I guess Berlusconi might be another

example of that.

QUEST: Right.

EMERSON: He -- they both ran campaigns based on immigration, based on making their countries great again. And I think, you know, Friedrich Merz

is one of the few foreign leaders that Trump can look eye to eye with because they're -- actually Merz is even a little bit taller. So I've

always felt there would be a good ground for connection between the two of them. And the challenge Merz have, of course, is obviously leading a

coalition government.

And you know, nothing can be done on trade without the E.U. Germany has a big say in that, but it's fundamentally all those member states have to

agree. And that's a challenge for sure.

QUEST: I'm grateful. Ambassador, thank you very much for joining us.

EMERSON: Thank you, sir.

QUEST: Now in just a moment, behind me, we take a look -- after the break, we take a look at the hotel where I am. It's the Taj Mahal. It's part of

the Taj, it's part of the India Hotels Group. One of the Taj Hotel properties. It's the largest hotel group in the country. After the break,

the CEO on how he's working to take advantage of India's growing market.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:40:20]

QUEST: The chief executive of Indian Hotels Company says his focus is on making sure there's an emotional connection to his brand. It's the Tata

backed group and it's the region's largest hotel company. Indian Hotels has nearly 40,000 rooms across 10 different brands. You can see them there.

The chief executive is Puneet Chhatwal, who gave me a tour of the building behind me. He told me what makes Taj and the group special.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

Behind us is called the Emperor's Lounge, which is an all-day tea lounge, coffee lounge. It's always buzzing, always full of people.

QUEST: Yes.

PUNEET CHHATWAL, CEO, INDIAN HOTELS COMPANY: And usually difficult to get a free table out there.

QUEST: Do you know anyone in management that could help us get a table? Or anyone high up in the company that might --

CHHATWAL: I think it might be at your service myself. Right?

QUEST: The size of the group is what? The number of hotels at the moment.

CHHATWAL: At the moment we are around 400 hotels, of which 250 in operation. Another 150 in various stages of development.

QUEST: What do you think is the -- in terms of number of brands that you would be comfortable with?

CHHATWAL: I don't think it's the quantity. It's the quality. You know, Taj brand was, is and will remain an emotion. It's not just a brand. So that

emotional connect, if we lose that, we will lose the competitive advantage of the brand. Therefore, it's not the number of brands. I know there has

been a branding creep amongst many in the sector, but I think the heterogeneous nature of India lends itself to doing eight to 10 hotel

brands to address various segments and various value propositions.

QUEST: You've got this property here, and the next, one of your group is in, you've also got the palace.

CHHATWAL: Yes. Taj Palace.

QUEST: Taj Palace.

CHHATWAL: Then we have the Ambassador.

QUEST: Right.

CHHATWAL: This side. And we have the Connaught on that side, and we have the Claridges this side.

QUEST: Wow. That's a lot of hotels.

CHHATWAL: But Connaught and Ambassador are like small, boutique-ish, well- established hotels like Claridges was. But they're not luxury provisioning. They're more like upscale, upper upscale.

QUEST: As many hotels as you can open, you can build here in a sense. The market is so fast growing.

CHHATWAL: Fast growing and so undersupplied. You know, there are only 200,000 branded rooms in India, which is equal to the size of Dubai and

Singapore.

QUEST: I always grade hotels on what I call the three Bs, the bed, the bathroom and the breakfast. And if you can't get them right, you shouldn't

be in business. But from your research, what is it people want?

CHHATWAL: Well, what has changed is, especially post COVID, people are going more and more into shorter breaks driven by experience. And the three

B's, the breakfast, the bathroom and --

QUEST: The bed.

CHHATWAL: The bed, that's now more or less a given in all categories. Those days of having the bed wars is gone. I mean, everybody has to have a good

bed, then you have to have a good breakfast, and in the bathroom the shower, the pressure of the shower has to be great so that you start your

day well.

QUEST: But the moment you move away from that and you start looking at what's next, then it becomes tricky because now you're -- you are going for

different types of market, you're going for different demands, different experiences, different price points.

CHHATWAL: Most importantly, Richard, local. What people want is local, authentic experience. They don't want, you know, something which is being

just cooked up like an Indian thing in New York, or, you know, I would say ala Vegas. That's fine. That works in Vegas but does not work in other

parts of the world.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

QUEST: The CEO of India Hotels. Coming up after the break, the chief executive of Air India has been tasked with returning the carrier back to

its former glory. And that means bringing new planes, new routes, new uniforms, a whole lot. But keeping the heritage, the Maharaja, who's still

very much part of the whole look and feel.

[16:45:05]

You're going to hear my conversation with Campbell Wilson after the break. I do like the Maharajah.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

QUEST: Air India is a grand old airline with a very proud tradition that seriously lost its way. Now privatized the new or relatively new chief

executive is eyeing expansion in multiple directions as part of the multi- year turnaround of the carrier.

Air India has just launched, "There's an Air About India," which is a new campaign digital, highlighting national identity, attracting Indians and

foreigners alike. The campaign is a remake of a classic, reminding fliers of a time when the airline was the pride of the country.

In more recent years, it's been known for old planes and outdated products. That was then. This is now. Campbell Wilson took the helm in '22 after 26

years with Singapore. He is backed by Tata Group and modernizing everything from the planes to the seats to the IT, you name it. Campbell spoke to me

at the training headquarters about where he expects to see growth.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CAMPBELL WILSON, CEO, AIR INDIA: We've always flown to long haul destinations. We think there's a lot of expansion in pretty much every

geography, whether it be North America, Europe, Australasia, Asia, Africa. And that's why we've got 570 aircraft on the order books in large part to

fulfill that mission.

But when you say global it's not just about network breadth and reach. It's actually about the customer base. Historically Air India was carrying

Indian travelers or parts of members of the diaspora of which there are 35 million. But to be a true global carrier, I think we need to appeal and

attract people irrespective of background, nationality, who would choose us because we are good, not because we are from any particular country.

QUEST: Or because you're cheap.

WILSON: Yes.

QUEST: It's never -- it's not an achievement to fill the plane. Anybody can do that by discounting across. But you need to become the airline people

want to fly.

WILSON: Yes.

QUEST: How do you do that?

WILSON: Well, reliability, product, service, price, reputation, consistency. Visibility. You know, we've gone actually quite -- made good

progress in this, notwithstanding the fact that our own journey is incomplete.

Namaste. How are you all?

[16:50:01]

So we had Manish Malhotra, who is a Bollywood designer designed this uniform.

QUEST: Yes?

WILSON: And I think it was eagerly anticipated. It took a few months to roll out. But you like it? Yes? This whole facility is new. It's been set

up in the last 18 months or so. And this whole grooming presentation function was just not existent. People were essentially left to their own

devices.

India has such a strong service culture. It's very warm, you know, hospitable place. Our crew are naturally warm and hospitable. And we want

to make sure that the whole package is wrapped up and looking presentable and feeling confident and comfortable in the process.

QUEST: Was it a weird experience coming from a very highly polished, sophisticated operation like (INAUDIBLE) in all its extremities and then

coming here?

WILSON: Well, yes, but it was almost a blank canvas in some respects. Clearly there was an airline operating slightly less than 100 aircraft. But

it didn't have the supporting infrastructure to take it to where we are now or indeed where we want it to be. And so it was a case of really building

everything at once. So in addition to transforming the airline, we had to build training academies. We had to build flight simulator academies.

We've had to set up a flying training school. We're setting up a maintenance base and merge four airlines. So I think it's more of a case of

excitement and opportunity that you very rarely would have the chance to do more than one of those things in a career. Yet we've had to do all of them

at once.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Anyone there? Anyone needs help? Anyone needs help. Only my equipment.

WILSON: So this sort of facility because you can actually be practical and hands on, it helps you.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, yes. You know, we have a clear mind of how to do the drills.

WILSON: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And it's very helpful.

QUEST: So, Tim at Emirates gave a wry smile at the suggestion that you can shift the hub from the Gulf down to India.

WILSON: So it's not a winner take all environment. The hubs, geography, the center of gravity of international aviation will move. I think it will move

closer to India. Now can India replicate the model that exists in a city state where everything is under essentially a single P&L and control?

Probably not. It's a big diverse democracy, but it can be a lot more integrated and efficient and effective than it has been in the past.

QUEST: Because all you've really got to do is get me off one plane, get me if I'm in business class, give me a nice lounge with a shower and a decent

meal and get me on the next plane and make sure my luggage follows with me. It's very simple in a sense, but it's got to be done.

WILSON: Yes. Look, and what are the ingredients to do that? One you need to have airport infrastructure operated in a professional and modern way. So

most of the big airports in India have been put out to private concession. There's a lot of investment comes in. The airport experience is very good,

but it wasn't really built for the connecting traveler in mind because there wasn't an airline that was focused on that strategy.

Now Air India has been privatized. It has private capital, long-term strategy, very clear on what it wants. And so the airports can build to

what we would like. The final part of the ecosystem is really the administrative state, security processes, border processes, use of

technology. And we're not needing to reinvent the wheel there because it exists and is on display in many other parts of the world, including

domestic travel in India, which is, you know, paperless.

The Maharaja is obviously the icon of Air India. We decided obviously we had to retain it. We've retained it in a lot of our service training and

the ethos of warmth and hospitality. But we've also kept it as a depiction on our first and business class cutlery, glassware, and like because it

really, I think it stands out as a nod to the past, but in a more contemporary way.

QUEST: I'm fortunate, in my hotel, I seem to be staying in the Maharaja Air India suite, which is just delicious. And I asked people about it and what

became clear is that there was a huge affection for this, you know, both for the symbol and the heritage and the pride for what it all stood for and

will stand for. And to that extent, that's an enormous, you know, it's something you can really capture and play with.

WILSON: It's an absolute privilege. This is a 92-year-old airline that was started by India's first commercial pilot, JRD Tata, part of the Tata

family that now owns Air India. The airline having been nationalized for a few decades in the interim. So we're restoring the airline back to the

company that started it. We're bringing the airline, which once was one of the best in the world, a little bit tarnished in the ensuing years.

We're bringing it back to the forefront of aviation. We're doing it at a time where India is increasingly part of the global supply chain, and being

seen as a significant player around the world.

[16:55:05]

We're doing it on a nation that wants to spread its wings and be seen in a certain way around the world, so it's not been as difficult as you might

think.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

QUEST: Campbell Wilson talking to me just earlier this week.

Now, before we leave you tonight, I'd like to honor the life of a good friend, Stanley Fischer. He's the former governor of the Bank of Israel,

who died this weekend at the age of 81. From the IMF to the U.S. Federal Reserve, Stan, as he used to be called, held top positions that shaped

global economic policies. He also taught at MIT, where he supervised the PhD dissertations of Mario Draghi and Ben Bernanke.

Many times I sat down with Stan Fischer, including right after Donald Trump's election victory in 2016. Then he was vice chair of the U.S.

Federal Reserve and he explained to me how he responded to political pressure.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STAN FISCHER, RENOWNED ECONOMIST: They are attacking us from here and there, they are attacking us from there, what should we do? And he always

had the same story. And I now give that answer. We must do our work. We've got a job. It's defined. We'll do it.

QUEST: Even if it gets to the point, though, it becomes more difficult as the public responds to political pressures against you if necessary.

FISCHER: Well, if that would happen, that would be very, very undesirable. It wouldn't be good for the economy. But we will do what we are supposed to

do.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

QUEST: A man with a subtle sense of humor, who was always gracious, whatever the crisis.

Stanley Fischer, a good friend who died.

We'll take a "Profitable Moment" after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

QUEST: Tonight's "Profitable Moment." No one can ever fail to be impressed by the size and the scale of India. But similarly overawed by the

challenges of economic growth, the disparities in wealth and poor, real poverty, abject poverty on the street. But even so, you come here and you

have a feeling of things can get better and will get better. And this is where the future lies. And now all they've got to do is execute it because,

as I've said a million times, the problem in this country is not the idea or the ambition or the wherewithal. It is simply the ability to get the job

done.

It's been a treat and a pleasure to be here all week. And that's QUEST MEANS BUSINESS for this Thursday night, Friday morning. I'm Richard Quest

in Delhi. Whatever you're up to the in the hours ahead, I hope it's profitable. I'll see you next week in Tashkent.

END