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Quest Means Business

Gold on Pace for Best Year Since 1979; Disruptions and Uncertainty as U.S.-Africa Trade Deal Ends; A.I. Podcast Startup Makes Each Episode For $1 or Less. Trump: Could Soon Visit Middle East if Talks Make Progress; Bank of England, IMF Warn of Possible Corrections; Ex-FBI Chief Comey Pleads Not Guilty, Trial Set for January 5. Aired 4-5p ET

Aired October 08, 2025 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[16:00:18]

RICHARD QUEST, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST, "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS": Closing bell is ringing on Wall Street. What an interesting day it has been. As you look

at the Dow Jones and all the other markets, the indices, they gave away the gains as the afternoon wore on. Gold is very much in vogue. We will be

talking about that.

The gavel has been hit and with that, trading is over. The markets and the main events.

A Gaza ceasefire deal could be within 24 hours we are hearing now, according to some sources. President Trump says he may travel to the Middle

East this weekend.

The sound of alarm, this time from the IMF and the Bank of England. Potential bubbles in stocks tied to A.I. But when and if are they going to

burst?

And the U.S. travel industry says the government shutdown is costing it a billion dollars a week.

We are live in New York. It is Wednesday. It is October the 8th. I am Richard Quest and I mean business.

Good evening.

Within the last hour, President Trump said he may go to the Middle East as soon as this weekend. The reason, apparently, because sources are saying a

deal to end the war in Gaza is very close, possibly within the next 48 hours. This is what Mr. Trump said a moment or two ago at The White House.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Potential peace deal for the Middle East, peace for the Middle East. That's a

beautiful phrase, and we hope it is going to come true, but it is very close and they're doing very well.

We have a great team over there, great negotiators, and they're unfortunately great negotiators on the other side also. But it is something

I think that will happen. Got a good chance of happening.

I may go there sometime toward the end of the week, maybe on Sunday.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

QUEST: Now, the President did not specify which countries he might visit. There you see Jared Kushner and Steve Witkoff. They are both in Egypt

taking part in the ongoing negotiations. Of course, Kushner is, Mr. Trump's son-in-law and Witkoff is his Special Envoy. Israel's chief negotiator has

also joined the indirect talks with Hamas.

Nic Robertson is our correspondent in Cairo.

Were you surprised, as the rest of us were at the thought that Mr. Trump might be on his way somewhere in the Middle East this weekend?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: The rumors have been growing. The momentum has been growing. And in such a condition, you often

get rumors. But to hear the President sort of nail down what had been rumor as to and almost thing that he may do really does seem to cement this idea

that progress is being made.

We've heard that from Israeli sources saying that they've been discussing where the ceasefire line would be, precisely the hostages being handed

over, precisely the prisoners that Israel has that would be handed over to -- well, freed from jail. Those things have been out there and we've heard

from those same sources saying, well, some of the prisoners that Hamas is asking for, they're not going to be released. That's too sensitive an

issue.

And also, hearing from Israeli sources that some of the bodies of the deceased hostages that Hamas and the other groups don't know where they

are. But again, this was said in a way that it wasn't derailing the whole process.

So, we've also heard this evening from Hamas, a senior Hamas official told CNN that talks are close, that there remain some issues about the prisoners

and that may be what we are hearing from President Trump about tough negotiations from the other side.

So that -- yes, look yes, some surprise, but I think we've been building to this moment.

QUEST: But Nic, does the ceasefire require -- is it a necessary precondition for the ceasefire, this idea of Hamas agreeing to no further

political and, of course, disarmament or does that sort of agreement follow on from it? Because that's the big sticking point.

ROBERTSON: That's the elephant in the room, quite frankly. You have this 20-point plan and everyone is focusing on the first couple of points. The

ceasefire and the release of all the hostages. That's been what -- that's been what the top negotiators have been saying from the get go that they're

focusing on these issues and the other things can be dealt with a little later.

But these are very key issues, and they are the sorts of issues that can trip up the implementation or the further progress that could be made, but

so much focus has been put on the on the ceasefire for hostages part of this, and that's where that, if you will trade is at, the elephant, there

is always other points in the 20-point plan disarmament, all of that. They are problems.

[16:05:24]

And as far as we know, they're not resolved.

QUEST: I guess, Donald Trump might and it is just my speculation be hoping for that sort of White House-Jimmy Carter all three hands rubbing all

together, so that all holding hands in a deal -- that's not going to happen. I mean, there are two.

This is not a general agreement on comprehensive peace.

ROBERTSON: I don't see Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu coming to Egypt as part of a signing deal. that's so unlikely. I don't see President Trump

shaking hands with a group that his administration considers a terrorist organization. Again, that doesn't seem to be on the cards. We are not

headed to everyone along a table like it was at the Abraham Accords. This is different. This is contentious, some parts will be unresolved.

But this is what President Trump has been looking for. He has been looking for a big success to nail down something that no U.S. President has done

ever yet and a symbolic part of that, however it is couched and framed in people and pens and paper and tables would be a win for this President if

it happens.

QUEST: Nic, I am grateful. Nic Robertson in Cairo for us tonight.

And so let us turn to our business agenda. Stock valuations are rocketing and now, two very prominent institutions are warning of a correction. When

or how? It doesn't matter.

The Bank of England said in a record of its latest meeting, read the quote. "The risk of a sharp market correction has increased. Equity market

valuations appear stretched, particularly for technology companies focused on A.I."

And then you've got the International Monetary Fund, the IMF warning of, again, a correction. The M.D., Kristalina Georgieva, spoke about the risk

at the Milken Institute ahead of next week's World Bank-IMF Annual meetings.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KRISTALINA GEORGIEVA, MANAGING DIRECTOR, INTERNATIONAL MONETARY FUND: History tells us this sentiment can turn on the dime. Today's valuations

are heading towards levels we saw during the bullishness about the internet 25 years ago.

If a sharp correction were to occur, tighter financial conditions could drag down world growth, expose vulnerabilities and make life especially

tough for developing countries.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

QUEST: Now, just to put this in perspective, the S&P 500 has just closed at another record. The valuations skyrocketing.

The warnings that are coming from the IMF, the BoE and others follows gold reaching a new milestone. The precious metal is now $4,000.00 an ounce.

There are technical reasons, because of the fall in the dollar, gold is valued in dollar, therefore, it takes more dollars to buy gold for this

fall, but there is also a contra -- an inherent contradiction because gold, of course, is the safe haven asset.

So arguably, its rise is warning about global markets.

Allison Morrow is with me.

Everywhere -- I mean, I was reading in the "F.T." one of the columnists in the "F.T." basically was saying correction before not too long, everybody

is saying this. Trying to time it is impossible, but there is a consensus that it is coming.

ALLISON MORROW, CNN BUSINESS SENIOR EDITOR: Absolutely, Richard. The late 90s are very hot right now. Everyone wants to talk about the parallels to

the late 90s tech-telecom runup that led to, you know, a graveyard of startups that we can all remember, Pets.com, et cetera, whether we are in

it or not is kind of impossible to know, but it is certainly kind of the buzzword on Wall Street right now and I think it is all because of A.I. It

is this new speculative technology that half of Wall Street thinks is going to revolutionize the world, revolutionize work, and unleash prosperity on

the world.

Others see a tech bubble and are very skeptical and that is why we are seeing gold go up.

QUEST: You know, as I listen to you saying that, at the same time, they are not mutually exclusive. You can have the nirvana of new productivity with

A.I., and at the same time, it being a bubble because the market, to use the old phrase, has just got ahead of its skis.

MORROW: Absolutely, which is exactly what happened in the late 90s, as you and I can remember.

[16:10:09]

The telecom companies just overestimated how much bandwidth they were going to need, how much fiber optic cable was going to need to be produced. They

over ordered, they ended up with a glut and then, of course, we all remember what happened and it was a painful recovery.

So, you know, the internet didn't go away, obviously and A.I. may not go away, but there are concerns now that what some investors are seeing is an

overestimation of A.I.'s ultimate economic impact.

QUEST: I love your writings and I follow them closely. So let me throw this philosophical question at you.

MORROW: Sure.

QUEST: Is it inevitable that the market will make these sort of mistakes? It is only calibrating over the long term. Therefore, when there is

something where the perception of a gold rush is, it is always going to overshoot like this.

MORROW: I think markets are people and people are flawed. I think that you're probably right, that it is inevitable that we are going to get

caught up in narratives because we get excited about the prospect of technology, the prospect of getting rich quick, which is what is driving a

lot of the enthusiasm we are seeing.

So I think whether this pops in a dramatic fashion or whether it deflates over time, I think these kinds of boom and bust cycles are pretty

inevitable.

QUEST: And of course, if it does, where the bottom is. Okay, great! Thank you very much.

MORROW: Thanks.

QUEST: Always good.

Now, so as stocks and gold are at record levels, we've talked a lot about it over the last few days and weeks because you are hard pressed to decide

where to put your money and if you are showing gains, what to do about it, do you take the profit and pay the tax? Or do you stay on? Or do you hedge?

Well, Bitcoin has never been more expensive, as when people are looking for returns outside traditional assets, $123,000.00.

But remember, Bitcoin is still priced in dollars and the dollar has weakened since April and that suggests a lack of confidence in U.S. growth.

Mohamed El-Erian and Ruchir Sharma have both been on this program last week, and agreed that there are no easy answers to this conundrum.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MOHAMED EL-ERIAN, ECONOMIST AND ADVISOR, ALLIANZ: If you're an individual investor, you have to ask the question, what will hurt me more? Missing on

returns or losing some capital? Because the last thing you want to do is sell when the market has a drawdown.

RUCHIR SHARMA, CHAIRMAN, ROCKEFELLER INTERNATIONAL: If you want to buy into America, you have to be clear that you are buying A.I. But outside of A.I.

plays, the rest of the world looks much more attractive.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

QUEST: Now, John Petrides is the portfolio manager at Tocqueville in Asset Management, joins me now. You've heard the arguments. You know, the

theories. You read the same things the rest of us do and everybody is expecting a correction. It is a question of not if, of when. We can't time

it, but it is coming at some point.

JOHN PETRIDES, PORTFOLIO MANAGER, TOCQUEVILLE IN ASSET MANAGEMENT: Yes, I think that's right. I mean, to think that the stock market will go up in to

the right in perpetuity is just silly. That's ignoring the entire history of financial assets since the beginning of time.

The reality is, though, when stock prices come down, the question is for how long? When does it happen? We don't know. For how long, right? And then

what's the percentage of the drawdown?

So as we've seen really for I don't know, the past 20 years when the stock market has drawn down, it doesn't stay down for very long.

QUEST: The difference of course, this time is the analogy with the dot-com boom and bust where there was a very specific reason that it rose so

sharply. And A.I. is that reason now.

Of course, A.I. is not going away and NVIDIA and all the players will be making money in the future, just not as much. So if you are long in all

this tech, what do you do?

PETRIDES: Right. So it is a good question. If you're in a tax-sheltered account, does it -- is it appropriate and prudent to check your allocation

and take some off the table? Absolutely.

If you're in a taxable account, you're sitting on massive unrealized capital gains, consider things about donating money to charity, considering

about gifting some of the positions away, considering maybe putting an option strategy around it to protect the volatility. And then, of course,

make sure you understand what it is that you own and why you own it.

I don't think the stock market in general is in a bubble. I do think the U.S. stock market, judged by the S&P 500 is expensive because it is in a

position that it has never been in before.

The S&P 500 is the most concentrated it has ever been in.

If you take the tech sector and then you add Google, Meta, Amazon and Tesla, it is like 50 percent of the index.

[16:15:08]

So you just need those companies to sneeze, and the stock market judged by the S&P 500 will come down. But if you look at the stock market on an equal

weighted basis and say a company like NVIDIA has the same market cap as a company like Dollar General, two completely different businesses, and you

look for them pound for pound for price, it is not expensive.

If you're looking at sectors like small cap or international or emerging markets, those sectors in my opinion, are not expensive. So there are other

places to put your capital than blindly buying a passive index like the S&P 500.

QUEST: The difficulty, of course, is greed and a combination of greed and FOMO. That is a lethal combination for any investor, because, look, I hold

my hands up. I lost the lot almost during the dot-com boom and bust because it was all -- well, you know, not all, but you know what I mean? Because it

was always going to be I will change the strategy next week.

I am going to ride this just a little bit more. Oh no, no, no. And then of course, as soon as the market turns, I am following it down because I don't

sell into the losses. I am told never to sell into, so that's the problem.

PETRIDES: Yes. I mean, there are so many components to that and that is where staying disciplined to your financial objectives are the key, right,

and what are you trying to achieve with your portfolio in your nest egg? But I do believe that you know, to your point of greed, we need a sell off

to flush the greed out, because when stocks and financial assets continue to rise, people get complacent, right?

They forget, you know, if it is sunny for 30 days in a row, people forget that it could rain some days and they have it -- they don't get -- they

sell their umbrella.

So you have to realize that you need a sell off to wake people up because when things keep going up and to the right, they get complacent and bad

people start making bad decisions with risk.

QUEST: I just want to get one quick answer from you on gold. I am not -- I never, I mean, gold has always befuddled me. They say gold should be part

of everybody's portfolio in some shape or form.

Do you subscribe to that? And if so, what's your preferred method of access?

PETRIDES: Fantastic question. We own gold. For our clients at Tocqueville, we own gold. We increased our gold position in 2023. It turned out to be a

fantastic call. We are still buying gold. And we -- but we are now buying it at a significantly lower weight than we once were, and the reason for

owning gold is this, I think I am a smart person, but I am smart enough to know I don't know everything.

So when that black swan event happens, right, I know I have gold or as like Peter Lynch once said, the famous investor, sometimes it is nice to be

caught with your pants up, and that's what it means to have gold as a portion of the portfolio.

At $4,000.00, gold is true. You know, there is a lot of math behind why gold is a good thing, but there is the greater fool theory behind gold. I

am going to sell you my gold because you're more scared than I am. Right? There is a component to that and we are at $4,000.00 per ounce and there

are reasons to be scared. The U.S. debt situation is not great. The world is experimenting with going away from the dollar.

You know, you do have valuations elsewhere that are that are higher. You have momentum in the market, right. There is a lot of momentum drivers

going in the market.

People fear that that if the Federal Reserve, if President Trump or when President Trump hires a new Fed Chair and they print more money, that's

going to devalue fiat currency, paper currency. So why not own more gold?

QUEST: I am grateful. So we will talk more, much more in the days and weeks ahead as you help us navigate it. Thank you, sir.

QUEST: Now, the former prosecutor and head of the FBI has become a federal defendant. James Comey, he pleaded not guilty and the trial is set to take

place in the start of next year.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:21:48]

QUEST: The former FBI Director, James Comey, was arraigned today in a U.S. federal court.

Mr. Comey pleaded not guilty to charges of making a false statement to Congress and obstructing a congressional proceedings. The trial date has

been set for January the 5th next year.

Mr. Comey's attorneys say he plans to file a number of challenges that could have the case thrown out.

Evan Perez joins me now from Washington.

I think that's where I want to focus, because, you know, the actual arraignment very much turn up, plead not guilty. Off we go. Circus galore.

But this idea that it is going to get thrown out, the number of procedural issues to have the arraignment or to have the indictment thrown out. How

realistic is that?

EVAN PEREZ, CNN SENIOR JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: They never work. Almost in no case does a case just get thrown out because of the -- particularly the

motion for selective and vindictive prosecution or that U.S. Attorney, the attorney who brought the case has not been lawfully appointed, but,

Richard, we are not dealing with a regular case. This is not normal.

This entire case has been handled very abnormally. The fact that the President of the United States has played such a major role in this, you

will remember that just a couple of days before this case was brought, he went on social media and ordered his Attorney General to prosecute his

political enemies, including Comey.

We know that he fired the former U.S. Attorney in this office in the Eastern District of Virginia, because there was reluctance by the lawyers

in that office to bring this case. They did not believe that there was sufficient evidence.

So because of that, it really does mean, we are going to be watching this much more closely because the lawyers today pointed out that this case was

brought by President Trump, and they're accusing prosecutors of unprofessional conduct.

QUEST: Okay. But the -- you know, listening to people speaking over the last few weeks, there is almost a chorus of this case is never going to

happen. This trial is never going to happen, because obviously the moment it does happen, we are in a different league with a jury and then anything

could happen. You're off to the races.

PEREZ: Correct.

QUEST: So this consensus that there seems to be that it will never actually happen. I am not sure I buy it.

PEREZ: I think you're right. I think your skepticism is right and I think judges are very reluctant to throw out a case that has been voted on by a

grand jury. The majority of these grand jurors accepted two of the three charges that were brought before them.

Now, there is a lot that can happen between now and January 5th, when this this case goes to trial or is scheduled to go to trial, but the reason why

I bring up the fact that the President of the United States has behaved so unusually in this case, we've never had a case where the President of the

United States is essentially interfering with and playing such a large role, and it is clear, the lawyers in this case for James Comey, Pat

Fitzgerald, is his lead attorney, a legendary lawyer, as you know, a prosecutor -- a former prosecutor at the Justice Department, he is going to

make this case about Donald Trump between now and January and that could very well work.

Again, as I said, most times, these types of motions don't succeed.

[16:25:10]

But we are not in normal times, and so we will see whether we can get to trial, especially because you saw it today, the U.S. Attorney, Lindsey

Halligan, who is acting U.S. Attorney, former lawyer to the President, she and these other two attorneys who just joined the case, one of the things

they said is that they are still just trying to learn what this case is about.

So there is a lot of room for them to make mistakes, and for this to go off the rails between now and then.

QUEST: And I am just thinking about it logically, I mean, let's assume it doesn't get thrown out and then it does go to trial and assume he gets

found guilty. Then you've got the appeal process all the way up onwards and outwards. You're going to be kept busy for the next -- goodness knows how

long.

PEREZ: I am not scheduling anything else between now and then.

QUEST: I was going to say -- thank you, sir.

Now, one week into the government shutdown and the U.S. Travel Association, the USTA says it is costing the U.S. economy travel industry about a

billion dollars each week.

On top of that, the World Travel and Tourism Council expects international spending for visitors in the United States to fall nearly seven percent

this year, at a time when it is growing sharply in other parts of the world.

The interim chief executive is Gloria Guevara, and she says that kind of spending is up in every country except the U.S.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GLORIA GUEVARA, INTERIM CHIEF EXECUTIVE, WORLD TRAVEL AND TOURISM COUNCIL: Travel and tourism is booming, Richard, when you look at the contribution

in GDP this year, we are going to break a new record with almost $11.7 trillion. If we were a country, we would be the third largest country in

the world and international spending is up in every single country except, unfortunately, the U.S. when you compare 2024 to 2025. There are $13

billion less than last year, so that is correct.

But domestic is strong and the. U.S. is still the largest economy in the world in travel and tourism.

QUEST: And so what needs to happen? Because the pandemic is now in the rear view mirror to an extent, a lot of countries are back where they are. Over

tourism is still a massive problem that has not really fully been addressed.

So where now for the industry?

GUEVARA: Well the industry is forecasting to create one of every three jobs in the world. we are going to be contributing to 91 million jobs in the

next ten years. And to give you an idea, this year, we are going to break a new record, very high, 371 million jobs. But it is very important to work

together because out of those, remember that we lost 70 million in the pandemic. We recovered them.

Now we are forecasting that we are going to be growing and creating 91 million jobs. But unfortunately, the challenge out of those 91, forty-three

million jobs might be unfulfilled. Why is that? Because of several factors. For instance, we have some challenges in some developed economies with

declining working age population or aging population, 20 percent of those, or 20 million of those jobs are low skilled jobs. So we also have a

challenge to attract more youth, and that is very important that we have to work together, the public and the private sector, to have the right

policies in place, also to be able to hire workforce from other countries.

QUEST: The one thing you and I have talked about many times over a late night coffee is how do we get leaders -- presidents, prime ministers,

governments -- to realize that tourism is this vast industry and start giving it the respect, my word, the respect it deserves, not just paying

lip service to it.

GUEVARA: That is a great point, Richard. I think we are making a lot of progress. Last week we had Giorgia Meloni in our event. She opened the

event and of course we had the President of the Senate who closed the event. It is a G7 leader, as you know, more and more, we need to be showing

and educating our leaders of the contribution of travel and tourism. One in three jobs, 10 percent of the global GDP. Without travel and tourism, we

wouldn't have the jobs that we have worldwide.

QUEST: You had to sit down interview with Shaika Al Nowais, who of course is taking over as the head of the U.N. WTO, the World Tourism Organization,

if you like, the U.N. body. Now, you ran for that job and she beat you.

Was it a comfortable -- was it a comfortable meeting in a sense that -- and the two of you can work together?

GUEVARA: Yes. We have a great relationship. As you know, I have been working for travel and tourism for 35 years, Richard. And I believe in this

public and private collaboration and Shaika believes the same.

WTTC and U.N. Tourism, they have to work together specifically to tackle all the challenges that we discussed before. These public and private

collaboration is more important than ever.

These organizations have to share the same agenda so that we can move forward and have solutions to the current problems.

[16:30:17]

(END VIDEO CLIP)

QUEST: That's Gloria Guevara, the interim CEO at the WTTC Travel and Tourism.

Coming up in a moment, gold is having its best year in decades, and now, let's say you want a bit of gold. Gold. How'd you get it, after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

QUEST: Hello. I'm Richard Quest. Together we got a lot more QUEST MEANS BUSINESS.

Gold is turning into one of the best investments of the year. You can hear from the Royal Mint about the ins and outs of buying that precious metal.

And the CEO of a company that says it can produce thousands of podcasts a week for next to nothing. And it's all because it's written and voiced by

A.I. Is it the end of -- anyway, you know what we're saying.

It's only after news headlines because we've got the news now, and here the news always comes first.

The former FBI director, James Comey, was arraigned today in a federal court where he's pleading not guilty to two charges, lying to Congress and

obstruction of a congressional proceeding. It's a dramatic turn in his relationship with President Trump, who fired Comey during the first Trump

administration.

The French president, Emmanuel Macron, could name a new prime minister within the next 48 hours, according to Sebastien Lecornu, the outgoing

minister. Lecornu submitted his resignation when he failed to break the country's political deadlock. Now, Macron is pushing for a budget with

substantial cuts in spending.

A man has been charged over the deadly California Palisades Fire that tore through Los Angeles back in January. Authorities say the wildfire was

started by 29-year-old Jonathan Rinderknecht. He was living in a neighborhood at the time. The blaze killed 12 people and burned thousands

of homes.

[16:35:13]

Our top story, the price of gold has skyrocketed, up more than 50 percent since January. It puts it on track for its best performance since 1979, and

all at a time when the U.S. is facing surging inflation and an energy crisis.

But if you want gold, the gold bandwagon, and jump onto it, there are numerous different options. You can have exposure to gold assets to the

price of gold, whether it be ETFs, gold stocks, those are manufacturers and miners, and the futures. Buying the precious metal itself has got some

challenges. You can expect to pay a markup. And then if you're really buying the big stuff, you've got to find a safe place to store it.

Andrew Dickey is with me, the director of Precious Metals at the Royal Mint, which sells a variety of gold products as the official maker of

British coins. Andrew is with me now.

Sir, gold, I mean, I've never look -- I've never quite understood this fine and wonderful fascination with gold, but it does exist. People love it and

they love it for a variety of reasons. Tell me how's the best way to buy it.

ANDREW DICKEY, DIRECTOR FOR PRECIOUS METALS, THE ROYAL MINT: Well, Richard, as you've just said, gold has been a -- seen as a tangible store of value

for thousands of years. There are many different ways of accessing precious metals investments. At the Royal Mint, we've been working hard as the gold

price has been going up and up and up to introduce more affordable, smaller coins that fall below one ounce in weight. So we have 10 ounce physical

coins and bars, half ounce, quarter ounce.

And that's opened up precious metal investing to a whole new audience. We're doing particularly well with younger investors who are finding that

there is now a weight or a denomination of physical gold assets for everybody, really. Everybody can get involved in physical precious metal

ownership.

QUEST: What is the liquidity for the sale of those assets? Because, yes, obviously if you've got the big ingots and the bars there within the chain

of integrity and they're traded between each other and they never really see the light of day except from vault to vault. But if I bought a gold

coin and I suddenly want to cash it in, how easy is that?

DICKEY: It's getting easier than ever before. You have a choice, when you buy either a physical coin or bar from the Royal Mint, you can choose to

store it in our purpose built secure storage facility called the Vault at the Royal Mint. And you can sell those products back that are stored in our

vault at the click of a mouse button instantaneously. If you choose to take delivery of your physical coin or bar, then it's just simply a matter of

getting in touch through our -- through our Web site, speaking to one of our customer service agents, and posting the coin and bar in for an

assaying process at the Royal Mint, and then we'll make you an offer and transfer the money to your account.

So the liquidity of precious metals has never been more accessible. And you also, as you mentioned in your introduction, have ETFs as well, which gives

investors immediate tradability on the price of gold.

QUEST: Can you -- sorry, I know this is a heresy to ask the head of Precious Metals at the Royal Mint. It's almost like I'm suggesting the

world is flat, but can you understand this love affair with gold?

DICKEY: Well, I personally can. I came from outside the precious metals industry into this role. And as soon as you hold a physical gold coin or

bar, I guarantee you this, Richard, I'm not sure if you -- if you've held something, held something like that before, it is a wonderful,

transformative experience. The weight of it, the beauty of it in your hand, the tactile nature of it. There is nothing quite like owning gold, I assure

you.

QUEST: I think I need to come to the Royal Mint at some point and see your gold, if I may, sir. Definitely.

DICKEY: Richard, you would be very, very welcome. Absolutely.

QUEST: That's an invitation you may live to regret. I'm grateful, sir, that you've joined us tonight. Thank you very much indeed.

It is QUEST MEANS BUSINESS. Gold. No, I expect you to die. What's that? "Goldfinger."

And a U.S. trade deal with Sub-Saharan Africa expires. AGOA it was called, and AGOAs are gone, and it's threatening millions of jobs. You're going to

hear from the director -- from the managing director of a textile factory in Lesotho about that.

QUEST MEANS BUSINESS.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:43:02]

QUEST: While U.S. lawmakers have been debating how to fund the U.S. federal government, they have let a crucial trade agreement with Sub-Saharan Africa

expire. It's the African Growth and Opportunity Act, AGOA, as it's been known. It has been the cornerstone of U.S. trade policy for 25 years,

granting duty free access to U.S. markets for thousands of African products, oil and gas, clothing and textiles, and not just the big stuff.

You know, small manufacturers took advantage of it.

The administration said it would support a one-year extension. Congress failed to act before the government shutdown took place. So what's the

effect? Millions of jobs in Africa are at stake.

Joining me now from Lesotho is Teboho Kobeli, the founder and managing director of Afri-Expo Textiles.

Sir, I'm grateful you're joining me on QUEST MEANS BUSINESS. So with the loss of this program from AGOA, what will you have to do? You won't be able

to sell to the U.S.? Tell me more.

TEBOHO KOBELI, FOUNDER AND MANAGING DIRECTOR, AFRI-EXPO TEXTILES: Thank you for having me, Richard. It's been a tough time. But tough times, they don't

last. But tough people they last. So what I'm trying to say to you is, yes, we have got this coming our way. We saw it coming because it has been going

on, expecting U.S. to come up with an extension but they never did.

So up until now, when it has ended, and then fortunately, as Lesotho, yes, we are inside one of the biggest economy, which is South Africa. And then

we have got the market, but apparently our biggest manufacturers were exporting to U.S., and they were employing masses.

[16:45:01]

So, as you know, as that happened most of the people they lost jobs and then now --

QUEST: Do you expect --

KOBELI: -- we are in a situation whereby --

QUEST: Sorry to interrupt you, sir. Forgive me, the connection is not brilliant, but do you expect you'll have to lose more jobs? Do you see

businesses going out of business because of this?

KOBELI: Well, it has quite an effect. But the government and the private sector has been coming together to come up with some new strategies in

terms of looking for other markets. So it's not like it's going to be a total shutdown. Yes, there will be some job losses, but government has been

trying everything in its power to get private sector to make sure that at least we have got something going on.

QUEST: What about this idea that really, I mean, AGOA was a great idea, but really, companies like yours and businesses like yours should be -- and the

whole continent, the intra-Africa trade should be much bigger. It should be easier for you -- instead of sending stuff to the United States, you should

be trading more within Africa.

KOBELI: You've got it right, Richard. This has been something that our government has been talking about it. But like we say, the market is there

for Africans to trade amongst themselves. So for me, this has been a wake- up call that the -- whatever that has happened, it happened. And then we have to look at ourselves. The potential is there. The market is there.

It's just that for the longest time, this industry has been dominated by the foreign direct investors who came here for AGOA.

And then, as the nationals or the Basotho or the Africans, we never took advantage ourselves. We never really took it up to up on our hands to take

it forward. So much that when it's like this, we know we can take it forward ourselves without looking elsewhere. But since it has been

dominated by the foreign direct investors now they have to -- they have to take their time to look at the new strategies.

QUEST: I'm grateful to you, sir. Thank you for joining me. It's late at night in Lesotho, but it's always good to talk, sir. Thank you very much.

Now, a startup is making thousands of podcasts. They are all A.I. generated. The episode topics, the hosts, voices, and it's all for less

than a dollar or less a day.

Jeanine Wright, there she is. She's the co-founder and CEO of Inception Point A.I. We'll talk about the A.I. podcast and why they're so popular, in

a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:50:33]

QUEST: There is nothing better than hearing a story well told, whether it's from a friend, on the wireless radio or nowadays, as we call them,

podcasts.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Good morning, my dear gardening companions, and welcome back to Bloom and Banter. I'm your host, Nigel Thistledown, speaking to you

from my delightfully chaotic potting shed where I've just finished having a rather stern conversation with my prized dahlia, Duchess Penelope, about

her tendency toward theatrical drooping.

Before we dive into today's floral festivities, I must confess something rather important to you all. I am, in fact, an artificial intelligence,

which I realize might come as quite a shock given my obvious passion for soil under the fingernails and the occasional bee sting.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

QUEST: That's extraordinary. It's called "Bloom and Banter with Nigel Thistledown," and it's completely, absolutely A.I. generated, right the way

down to the voice. It was made by the startup Inception Point A.I. and the company makes 3,000 episodes a week. The cost base is barely a dollar or

less. The CEO is Jeanine Wright.

When I heard about this, I knew I wanted to talk to you about it because, whilst I love it, I almost want to say what travesty this is at one level.

And you know the argument. You've heard them a million times. This is completely manufactured, isn't it?

JEANINE WRIGHT, CO-FOUNDER AND CEO, INCEPTION POINT A.I.: Well, I wouldn't say that it's completely manufactured. We have creators on our team and

they work at the very front end of the process to design the personalities who are telling these stories and creating this content for us from

scratch. And there's a lot of work that goes into the process of designing these characters with very rich backgrounds.

And then we help create what the story arcs are going to be that they're going to tell, and create like that design for the arc over the period of a

certain number of episodes. And then we use all of the A.I. tooling to help us create that content and then launch it out into the world.

QUEST: Right, so --

WRIGHT: And then it becomes automated.

QUEST: Right. So the actual story lines, are they -- are they created by A.I. or are they created by a human who then says to A.I., look, you're

going to start here, this person is going to die, and by the end of it, everybody is happy and married?

WRIGHT: Well, I would say it's a combination of the two. So many of our creators are doing a complete story arc and then using A.I. to power the

generation of that story. But some of our content is created where an idea, just an idea, is incepted, and then we use A.I. to power even the creation

of how that content is told.

QUEST: Now, when I heard about this, I mean, the reality is that you can do this for next to nothing in terms of -- on a unit basis. Whereas a

traditional radio program, if it's on the BBC or if it's on NPR or the ABC Australia would have to have many hundreds of thousands of listeners before

-- or podcasts before it would be commercially viable.

WRIGHT: Yes, that's exactly right. And that's part of the problem that we're trying to solve in this space is that historically, the rising

production, marketing and talent costs have made it that creating the content has become so expensive that if you don't reach hundreds of

thousands, millions of listeners, then that show is never going to be profitable.

And there are oftentimes when companies that I was previously at, we would create this really exceptional content that we ultimately had to cancel

because we were never going to make money on that show. But here --

QUEST: OK. So with here --

WRIGHT: Yes.

QUEST: Well, with this, obviously your cost base means you can create it because you don't need to. But does it -- is it as demanding? Does A.I. --

forgive this word. I don't want to say dumb it down. I don't mean it literally, but I mean it goes for the lowest common denominator. It sort of

takes the easy route. It doesn't deal with the difficult subjects.

WRIGHT: Yes, I don't -- I don't think that that is fair to say. I mean, we are actually -- because we can make content for only about a dollar an

episode, if I get about 20 people to listen to that podcast, then I've reached unit profitability. So that means that I can reach niche

communities, micro communities, in a way that has never previously been commercially viable. So you think like an audio version of Reddit or an

audio version of Wikipedia or Pinterest, and these are things that have never been able to be done in audio. And they're finding audience that's

liking this content and engaging.

QUEST: Let's have a listen to this clip where a business program and you've got business content.

[16:55:03]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: One of my favorite automated saving strategies is what I call the invisible raise technique, which is perfect for anyone who

receives regular pay increases or bonuses throughout the year. Instead of automatically upgrading your lifestyle every time your income increases,

you commit to saving at least 50 percent of any raise or bonus you receive.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

QUEST: Fascinating. Is there any end to this? Is there anything you've discovered it won't work at?

WRIGHT: Not really. I mean, to date we do steer clear of doing what we describe as hard news and hard politics. And that's not because we think

that the A.I. is going to get it wrong. In fact, we've taken a lot of methods internally to make sure that we can mitigate the risk of

hallucination down to nearly zero. But it is because we're designing personalities with a lot of complexity sometimes it doesn't always strike

the exact right tone.

And so we would need to listen to and review any of this kind of content before it goes out the door. And we don't -- we don't pretend to be in that

business, at least not yet. So most of the content that we are creating today we don't need to have a human review it before it goes out the door.

QUEST: Sure. It's fascinating. When I heard about this, it's fascinating. I'm looking forward to trying it and enjoying myself. Thank you for coming

in and talking about it. I appreciate it enormously.

WRIGHT: Of course. Thank you so much.

QUEST: We will take a "Profitable Moment" after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

QUEST: Tonight's "Profitable Moment." I think I'm still of that generation that loves listening to things on the radio. Maybe you do, too. And really,

all podcasts are a radio by a different name. Wireless to radio to podcast. But this whole business of inception A.I. is fascinating to me. I sort of

love the idea of listening to a talk by whoever it might be, even if it is A.I. generated, but I then worry about where's it come from? Is it dumbed

down? Is it not demanding enough? Does it have that spark of creativity?

The sort of thing, frankly, that the writers and producers of QUEST MEANS BUSINESS give that human touch and that human element that brings, the

mistakes and all, the warts, the fun, the frivolities and the serious stuff. But I must not be a luddite, and no must you. So we keep an open

mind. I'm looking forward to listening to some of the inception A.I., Nigel Thistlethwaite or whatever, because at the end of the day, it is the

future.

And even with market valuations at these stratospheric levels, we could all still enjoy something that is A.I. generated.

Now, that is QUEST MEANS BUSINESS for tonight. The real thing. I'm Richard Quest in New York. Whatever you're up to in the hours ahead, I do hope it's

profitable. I'm on my travels for the next two weeks, on assignment in Asia. If you see me on the way, stop please and say hello.

END