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Quest Means Business
Russia's War on Ukraine; Nagel: Expect German Economy to Grow Again Next Year; Sources: DOJ to Ask Grand Jury to Indict John Bolton Today; Trump Addresses Russia's War on Ukraine in Speaking to Reporters; Europe Facing Sluggish Growth, Political Instability and Tariffs. Aired 4-5p ET
Aired October 16, 2025 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[16:00:28]
PAULA NEWTON, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST: The market is a little spooked today. It has something to do with the regional banks and credit. It also has
something to do with cockroaches. For those of you who know, you know, for you who you don't, stick around. We will explain. Those are the markets.
And these are the main events.
After a two-and-a-half hour phone call with President Putin, President Trump announced his plans to meet with him in Hungary.
The head of the Deutsche Bundesbank tells me the answer for growth lies in more Europe, not less.
And a rough day of trade for solar car company, Aptera Motors, its co- founder joins me from the NASDAQ.
Live from New York, it is Thursday, October 16th. I'm Paula Newton in for Richard Quest and this is QUEST MEANS BUSINESS.
Good evening, everyone.
Tonight, U.S. President Donald Trump says he is laying the groundwork for a second meeting with Vladimir Putin. Now, Trump posted on Truth Social that
he had a very productive call today with his Russian counterpart. He says Secretary of State Marco Rubio will attend a meeting next week with high
level advisers from the Kremlin, and the next step will be a U.S.-Russia Summit in Budapest, Hungary.
All of this ahead of tomorrow' White House meeting with Ukraine's President Zelenskyy. Jim Sciutto is at the IMF meetings in Washington for us, but he
is following all of that.
Listen, Jim, a lot of news pretty much unexpected in the last few hours. What do you make of it, especially given the criticism that after that
Alaska Summit, not much amounted to it?
JIM SCIUTTO CNN ANCHOR AND CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, the language is quite similar to what we heard from Trump prior, right? That he
expected progress or even after that Alaska Summit when it was quite clear that Putin had given no ground, but President Trump attempted to put a
positive spin on it. So the question is what, if anything, Putin said in that phone call to give Trump confidence that this time will be different
from Alaska.
And frankly, I was there in Alaska and when you watched the progress of the war in Ukraine since then, Russia has arguably expanded it, not shrunk it
with even more devastating air attacks on Ukraine. And it is notable as well, Paula, because as my colleague, Zach Cohen and I reported earlier
today, it was after the Alaska Summit that President Trump and The White House made a strategic shift as it relates to Russia and Ukraine by
stepping up intelligence cooperation with Ukraine intelligence specifically on targets deep inside Russia, focused on Russia's energy sector.
And we've seen the results of that intelligence sharing in recent weeks, as Ukraine has sent some fairly devastating strikes inside Russia. So even The
White House knew that coming out of Alaska, they hadn't made progress. They upped the support for Ukraine, and that's had an effect. It is not clear
now what has changed, or if Trump just believes a second effort might be the successful one.
NEWTON: Yes, and your reporting is really interesting, given the fact that the President has pointed out several times in the last few weeks that
Russia is having trouble, the Russians are having trouble just really pumping gas at gas stations. There are long lineups for gas.
Jim, I want to ask you, though, materially, in terms of your information, you know, this is a robust, offensive posture for Ukraine. How much do you
believe it will inform the success or failure, quite frankly, of any future negotiations with Russia? I mean, 2.5 hours on the phone is significant.
SCIUTTO: Well, it seems to have changed President Trump's assessment of this war. Right? Because remember going back to that awful Oval Office
meeting between Zelenskyy and Trump in February when Trump famously said or infamously said Ukraine has no cards. In more recent weeks, he has said,
well, hey, perhaps Ukraine can win this war, perhaps Ukraine can win back all the territory that Russia took from it. You'll remember that tweet he
sent out during the U.N. General Assembly.
And now, at least a consideration of further weapons transfers to Ukraine and his own statements that Russia's economy is suffering here. It seems
that Trump's assessment has changed over that time period that, yes, Ukraine is inflicting real damage on Russia, that it appears from the
President's perspective, would put Putin in more of a mood to negotiate. Right? And that may be his calculation that this time in Budapest, Putin
makes concessions that he was not willing to make in Alaska.
[16:05:20]
Of course, we've seen Putin play this game before, too, right, saying some nice things, attempting to get the U.S. off additional support for Ukraine,
and then gaming this out further. We will see which it is, you know, is this real change or is this another delay? Another delay tactic?
NEWTON: Yes, and in terms of those delay tactics, that already has been successful for President Putin. So we will see where this goes from here.
Jim, grateful to you, and you of course will be back in a couple of hours, right now, to anchor "The Brief" from those meetings at the IMF in
Washington.
SCIUTTO: Sure!
NEWTON: Appreciate it. Now, he will discuss the state of the global economy with the Polish Finance Minister and the Governor of the Bank of Israel.
You do not want to miss these conversations. That's 6:00 P.M. New York Time, 11:00 P.M. in London.
Now, Europe is trying to stand up to Russia during a period of economic weakness. France is expected to grow less than one percent this year while
trying to cut government spending and lower its debt. The British economy is slightly stronger, but the Bank of England's Governor says the jobs
market is now softening and Germany is trying to find its footing. Its economy is expected to grow slightly in the fourth quarter. That is good
news.
But one research group puts the risk of recession at nearly 35 percent. Exports and industrial orders fell in August as U.S. tariffs took effect.
Now, the President of Germany's Bundesbank says that the only thing certain about Europe's economy right now is uncertainty.
Joachim Nagel spoke to me from those IMF-World Bank meetings earlier today, and he says Europe needs to implement the recommendations from the Draghi
Report before it is too late.
Nagel began by telling me that there are brighter days ahead for the German economy. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOACHIM NAGEL, BUNDESBANK PRESIDENT: I believe the outlook is rather good. So this year, for sure will be one of these years where we expect more or
less stagnation. But then next year, together with the fiscal package by the government, we will see that economic growth is coming back.
So our expectation of the Bundesbank is around 0.7, and then for 2027, we will see growth rates definitely above one percent and this is good news.
So I will not say that Germany is back in the way that is the growth engine, but we are reliable, robust partner in Europe and Germany will get
to a path where we believe this is the right direction.
NEWTON: We've had these shocks to global trade including not just from the United States, but also the issue of China as well. We've had this fiscal
crunch in Europe. I am very curious, what do you see as posing the most risk right now in the 12 months to come?
NAGEL: I think -- I really do not know. The only thing that I know, and you alluded to it in your question, there are so many uncertainties. I think it
is a mix of many things. Is it geopolitical or is it trade or maybe -- so many different things that could trigger maybe a situation where we have to
be concerned about financial stability.
NEWTON: And in the most diplomatic way, though, if the United States and Europe do not come to a more detailed agreement, I should say, because
there is an agreement in principle and if the United States and China continue to escalate, how do you believe that will change things in 2026?
NAGEL: I think I am not sure if it is, you can say, well, it is maybe deglobalization could be one of the outcomes, but coming back to your first
part of the question regarding United States and Europe, we shouldn't forget that, taking my country the tariffs are ten times higher than
before.
So this is a difficult situation and it is for the German economy, for Europe, it is not easy to tackle this new situation. And then the situation
with China is coming on top. Tariffs are much higher. So the world economy is not the same and we will see what 2026 will bring.
The best that I hope is maybe a situation where we should talk to each other because I believe, this kind of a trade conflict is not helpful.
There are only losers. There are no winners. This is my assessment.
NEWTON: Mr. Draghi himself last month was quite blunt, just saying that, look, things are happening far too slowly. I mean, do you agree with him?
Do you think much more needs to be done in order to improve European competitiveness? And I am talking about a whole new start here.
[16:10:10]
So I cannot agree more with what Mario Draghi said. I think his report is now one-year-old and that so many things from this report is now being
implemented, so we definitely have to speed up. As far as I am not wrong here, although the German Chancellor said this today in front of the German
Parliament that he expects from Brussels a little bit more, let me say speed on one or the other reforms taking, for example, the famous capital
market union, the banking union. I think we have to do our homework in Europe.
So we have to look for ways how to integrate in a much better way and I am saying this now for months and months, the answer of all the things that
are so uncertain in these days is more Europe and not less Europe.
NEWTON: I want to ask you, you have made some provocative comments for what is your position? You have an independent position. You're not a
politician, but you have been especially outspoken about the rise of right- wing parties in Germany and the anti-immigration sentiment also in the country.
I want to ask you, by standing up in this way and really the candor with which you have spoken, what do you hope to achieve? What do you hope the
impact of that will be?
NAGEL: I think, first of all, when you mentioned that I attended my first time in my life last year at a demonstration in Frankfurt, because I am
really of the opinion when it goes to those things that maybe some parties or maybe there are people that are undermining the democracy or sharing or
maybe undermining the values we share, that is also something to do with the mandate of the Central Bank, because Europe has to be attractive for
foreigners, for foreign investment. So I believe we have to fight for it.
We shouldn't take democracy as a given and this is my understanding, being in a position like this, I would like to get out and I would say what I
think about, that what we achieved over the last 80 years, that is an achievement and we should do everything what is necessary to keep this
achievement.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
NEWTON: Some candid comments there. We are going to continue this conversation later this hour with Eurogroup President Paschal Donohoe. He
will join the program and we will continue our discussion about Europe's economic headwinds, with a focus on the political turmoil in France.
Now, shares in U.S. regional banks closed lower on fears about the credit market. Zions Bank Corp sparked a selloff after announcing a $50 million
loss linked to a bad loan. Western Alliance disclosed problems of its own. Investors were already shaken by two corporate bankruptcies, First Brands
and Tricolor.
And JPMorgan CEO Jamie Dimon warned this week that, in his words, when you see one cockroach, there are probably more.
Matt Egan is with us to talk about markets and cockroaches. In the first instance, what is going on here? I mean, look, we have to be a bit -- we
have to be calm about this. The markets are very close to record highs still, and yet this has spooked some.
MATT EGAN, CNN REPORTER: Yes, Paula. You're right. It has spooked some. I mean, I think it is safe to say that investors are getting increasingly
concerned about bad loans in the banking sector. And to your point, markets are still near all-time highs, but volatility has picked up.
The ride in markets has gotten a bit bumpier and ground zero for these worries about bad loans. That's a Jefferies, right, Jefferies down by about
10 percent today. The New York Investment Bank has lost about a quarter of its value in just the past month. Now, Jefferies is among the banks that
has been caught up in that bankruptcy last month at the auto supplier First Brands. Right?
And this company, Jefferies, does have some losses tied to that, and the bankruptcy there really has sparked some concern among investors. Right?
They're wondering maybe there was too much bad lending to too many weak companies. And what happens if the economy really stumbles. Right? What do
the bad loans look like at that point?
Now I should note that Jefferies has put out a statement in recent days where they stressed that, look, this bankruptcy may have been related to
alleged fraud at the company of First Brands. Jefferies stresses that they have the financial wherewithal to manage any sort of losses here.
But I did talk to Michael Black, a market veteran, and he told me, look, right now everyone is just waiting for the next shoe to drop. He said, it
is possible that this is just a false alarm. He said it is also possible that where there is smoke, there is fire -- Paula.
NEWTON: All right, Matt, I know you're not old enough to remember this, but you do know the word -- Asian Contagion, I hate to even bring that up at
this point in time, but, you know, when you look at those regional banks, they are at times a canary in the coal mine, at least that's historically
been the situation in the United States.
[16:15:22]
And Jamie Dimon's warning was some people -- it was kind of cheeky. He even said himself, I probably shouldn't say this, but it is worrying as if, what
are these -- what are these banks hiding? What are these credit markets hiding that we don't know about?
EGAN: Yes, well, Jamie Dimon is obviously one of the most powerful bankers on the planet. So when he speaks, people listen and when he prefaces what
he says with, "I probably shouldn't say that" I know journalists everywhere are starting to take notes at that point.
But look, this is a colorful analogy he made getting at this debate, right, whether or not these recent bankruptcies are just isolated incidents, or if
they're speaking to a broader problem of excessive lending, a problem that, by the way, may not be priced into financial markets.
Take a listen to what Dimon told Wall Street analysts earlier this week.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
JAMIE DIMON, CEO, JPMORGAN CHASE: My antenna goes up with things like that happen, and I probably shouldn't say this, but when you see one cockroach,
there are probably more, you know, and so we should -- everyone should be forewarned on this one.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
EGAN: Now, the first bankruptcy that really caught Wall Street off guard was the bankruptcy last month of Tricolor. That's a subprime auto lender.
It specializes in making car loans to people who have weaker credit scores. And we know right now, it is a very expensive time to buy a car. Some
people are falling behind on their loans. And this is a company that ended up going under. And JPMorgan itself lost almost $200 million in this
bankruptcy.
And it is not just about the Tricolor bankruptcy, right? As we mentioned a few weeks later, there was this other bankruptcy of First Brands, the auto
supplier. And in that bankruptcy there, that company was built on some off balance sheet financing. And one creditor has alleged that as much as $2.3
billion simply vanished. The U.S. Justice Department is reportedly investigating.
Now, to your point, Paula, about the Asian contagion back in the 1990s, perhaps a more recent parallel could be what we saw in the summer of 2007,
right, right back then, markets were at all-time highs and there were a pair of Bear Stearns hedge funds that ended up going under.
And, you know, a lot of the time, a lot of people, they kind of shrugged it off. They thought this problem was contained. Of course, in hindsight, we
now know that that was the first of many shoes to drop in what would become the great recession.
Now, no one is saying, not Jamie Dimon, not anyone else I am talking to that this is going to be a repeat of that. It is entirely possible that
these really are isolated incidents that they are speaking to company specific issues, not wider spread ones, and hopefully that is the case.
But Paula, clearly at a minimum, these bankruptcies have been a wake-up call and it has certainly gotten the attention of America's most powerful
banker.
NEWTON: Yes, absolutely. Given what's at stake here, some vigilance is needed and that's likely what Jamie Dimon was getting at.
Matt Egan for us. Thank you very much. Appreciate it.
EGAN: Thanks, Paula.
NEWTON: Yes. One of Donald Trump's fiercest critics and former top aide could be facing a federal indictment. The latest on the investigation into
John Bolton. That's ahead on QUEST MEANS BUSINESS.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:20:08]
NEWTON: So we continue to follow a developing story out of Washington, where the Justice Department is expected to ask for a grand jury indictment
against John Bolton.
Bolton served as National Security advisor during President Trump's first term. He has been under investigation for allegedly mishandling classified
information. Multiple sources say Bolton shared diary-like notes about his work with his wife and daughter over e-mail using an AOL account.
Our Katelyn Polantz joins us now from Washington.
I mean, look, Katelyn, you've been following this for so many months. How close are we to this indictment? And in terms of new evidence that may have
been uncovered, I mean, they had just had certainly those searches at his home quite a few weeks ago.
KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN CRIME AND JUSTICE SENIOR REPORTER: Yes, Paula, we are waiting for news of a possible indictment imminently. We don't know if a
grand jury would have approved it today, but we do know that the grand jury met the prosecutor on this case, was at the federal courthouse with them
and that they are done for the day it appears.
We do have a producer at that federal courthouse in Maryland and what we are waiting to see is if John Bolton would be indicted by a grand jury and
if it would track closely, as we believe it may, to what the reasoning was for these searches in August of his home and his office.
In August, when his office and home were searched, the federal government went to a court and said, we have probable cause that we might find
classified records and National Defense information still in his possession, being kept in an unsecured way. There was a book manuscript
that he had worked on, and at the time he was National Security adviser, he also was writing e-mails essentially to himself, but also we now know from
sources to his wife and daughter in an AOL account that would have illuminated his time as the National Security advisor to Donald Trump and
that may also have been containing classified information.
This is a case that has been investigated for quite some time, and so we don't exactly know what happens next, but we are going to be watching very
closely what comes out of the Federal Court in Maryland today, and also what will happen next with the Justice Department. Will they want to see
John Bolton arrested? What kind of political choices will be factored in, since this is someone that Donald Trump has wanted to see retribution for,
for some time, or is this going to be a more by the book approach to a National Security prosecution if one is approved.
NEWTON: Yes, and we will wait to see the outcome of that. As you said, we could have news of that in the next few minutes.
Katelyn Polantz for us.
And now we do go to The White House -- actually, we are not going to go to The White House. I do want to reiterate, though, that the President is
speaking. We continue to monitor that, especially given the fact that we have had breaking news on what is likely to be in the coming weeks, a
summit between President Putin and President Trump.
Now, for now, though, we do continue here. Gold also continues that record run. If you ask me, it is starting to look like a meme stock at this point
in time. Look at that. And again, a record high, a climb to $4,300.00 for the first time. The asset's rally has presented an opportunity for jewelry
owners to sell their valuables.
Anna Cooban visited the U.K.'s largest gold refinery to see how it all works.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANNA COOBAN, CNN BUSINESS AND ECONOMICS REPORTER (voice over): Hidden away in a warehouse on the edge of London, CNN has agreed not to reveal the
exact location for security reasons. That's because it is the U.K.'s largest gold refinery, capitalizing on a new gold rush.
COOBAN (on camera): Don't be fooled. This is not a bucket of dirt. This is a bucket of pure gold worth about $2 million. And it could be turned into
one of these very heavy gold bars.
COOBAN (voice over): In times of uncertainty, gold is seen as a safe bet by investors. That's giving gold prices their biggest rally since 1979,
meaning that this jewelry is now worth more when thrown into the flames and melted down.
Here we go.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right there.
[16:25:06]
COOBAN (voice over): Baird & Co. buys old jewelry and turns it into pure gold that can be traded by investors.
At this stage, the gold is still only considered around 50 percent pure.
COOBAN (on camera): Whoa!
COOBAN (voice over): It is taken into the refinery for further purifying.
COOBAN (on camera): So what are these called?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So these are called corn flakes.
COOBAN: Corn flakes?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
COOBAN: But you can't eat them.
NEWTON: And we are going to interrupt this package to go to The White House and President Trump.
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: If they are going to behave, we are going to find out if they behave. If they behave,
good; if they don't behave, we will take care of it.
Yes, please.
REPORTER: Following up on that, when you say --
TRUMP: I didn't say you -- you're CNN fake news. Go ahead.
REPORTER: In your post that if they kept killing people in Gaza, you would have no choice but to go in and kill them. So do you mean U.S. forces would
go in and take them out?
TRUMP: No, I didn't say who would go in, but somebody will go in. It is not going to be us. We won't have to. There are people very close, very nearby
that will go in. They'll do the trick very easily, but under our auspices.
REPORTER: Can I follow up -- you also posted about your call with President Putin today, and you spoke about the meeting in Hungary with him. Do you
have a timeline or a date set for when?
TRUMP: I would say within two weeks or so. Pretty quick. Marco Rubio is going to be meeting with his counterpart, as you know, Lavrov and they will
be meeting pretty soon. They're going to set up a time and a place very shortly. Maybe it is already set up. They've already spoken.
And I thought it was a very good phone call, I thought very productive. But I will be meeting with President Putin and we will make a determination
tomorrow. I am meeting with President Zelenskyy and I will be telling him about the call.
I mean, we have a problem. They don't get along too well, those two and it is sometimes tough to have meetings. So we may do something where we are
separate but separate but equal. We will meet and talk parties. But this is a -- this is a terrible relationship the two of them have and it is one of
those things.
I've seen, things that nobody would believe, but this is one of them. So I will be meeting with him. We are going to be meeting in Hungary. Viktor
Orban is going to be hosting, and it is really something that is time.
Last week, over 7,000 people were killed. That's ridiculous. And, you know, it doesn't affect our country. We don't -- we are not losing people. We are
not losing. Bobby, we are not losing Americans, but they're losing Russians, Ukrainians, mostly soldiers for the most part, soldiers.
And we think we are going to get -- we hope we are going to get it stopped. I thought this would be -- because of my relationship with President Putin,
I thought this would be very quick and it has turned out to be -- who would think I did Middle East before I did this, but we did a total of eight, now
seven and now eight and we are going to make this number nine.
REPORTER: So you said you posted that there was great progress. Can you tell us a little bit about that? Was it a shift in his tone? Was it
something new that he told you? Did he give you any message to give --
TRUMP: You're talked about the --
REPORTER -- President Zelenskyy tomorrow?
TRUMP: It just seems to me that, you know, look, it is only a feel. That's all I have done in my whole life. I've made deals. I know about deals. I do
it well.
I don't think any president has ever ended a war, frankly. One war, I did eight of them, Maria, right? And -- but -- did Bush ever end? Do you think
Biden ended a war? Biden started wars because he was stupid. But do you think Biden ended any wars? No.
I don't think -- I don't know of anybody that ended wars. I ended eight of them. Now, it is going to be nine. I think we are going to have this one
done, hopefully soon. But I will be meeting him probably over the next two weeks. First, Marco is going to be meeting and the Vice President, as you
know, is very much involved. The whole team is involved. Steve Witkoff will be involved.
Yes, please.
REPORTER: What did you tell him about the tomahawks? Did you discuss the tomahawk missiles? Did you discuss --
TRUMP: Well, we talked about it a little bit. Didn't say much. But I do say to you, you know, we need tomahawks for the United States of America, too.
We have, a lot of them, but we need them. I mean, we can't deplete for our country. So, you know, they're very vital. They're very powerful. They're
very accurate. They're very good. But we need them, too.
So, I don't know what we can do about that.
REPORTER: Why do you think a second meeting with Putin -- why do you think a second meeting with Putin now will yield different results?
TRUMP: Well, I think Alaska actually set the stage and that wasn't very long ago, but it set a stage. You have to understand, I came into this
situation. I didn't start this war. This is a Biden deal. And I came into it and it was a mess.
It could have led to World War III. In my opinion, this could have led to World War III. That won't happen, but it could have. So I came in, this war
was raging.
When I left, this wasn't even a thought. For four years nobody talked about it.
I spoke to President Putin about Ukraine, it was the apple of his eye, but there was no -- never going to be doing anything like this, and this all
went because of some really bad decisions that were made. And look what you have. They have millions of people dead. You have just a horrible, horrible
situation.
I am doing it to save souls. That's all. I am doing it for. I am not doing it for us. Were we have an ocean between us.
I am doing it also to help Europe. They want to have it ended, but they're unable to do it. I am able to do it. So I think we will be successful. We
will save a lot of lives. It should have been done. It should have never started. This would have never happened if the election weren't rigged.
This would have never happened. But it did happen. And I will get it stopped. Okay?
[16:30:48]
(CROSSTALK)
REPORTER: What's your message to --
TRUMP: Yes. Go ahead.
REPORTER: Yes, yes. You mentioned the $1300 drug at the top of this. Were you referring to the weight loss drugs?
TRUMP: Yes. I was referring to Ozempic or the fat loss drug.
REPORTER: So those are going to be $150 out of pocket?
TRUMP: Yes. Well, they'll be much lower. They'll be much lower.
Yes, go ahead.
MEHMET OZ, ADMINISTRATOR, CENTERS FOR MEDICARE AND MEDICAID SERVICES: We have not negotiated those yet. They're -- we're going to be rolling these
out over time. The GOP category of drugs, which includes Ozempic, have not been negotiated yet.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: What's the timeline for that?
TRUMP: But it will. It will come down like everyone else.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: OK. Any timeline on the -- on those negotiations?
TRUMP: No. But I think those are going to come down pretty fast. And we do have, I guess, some alternatives.
OZ: The president will be happy with the result. And until he is, we're not going to close those negotiations. Thank you.
TRUMP: Except it'll happen.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Got it.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Mr. President, what's your message to pro-life conservatives? Some pro-life conservatives have religious objections to IVF
and are already critical of this policy. What's your message to them?
TRUMP: I don't know about the views of that. I'm just looking to do something because, you know, pro-life. I think this is very pro-life. This
is -- you can't get more pro-life than this. Please.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Mr. President, you've been talking about how this new benefit plan will also include root cause treatments for infertility.
How will you make sure that those root cause treatments are equally accessible to IVF?
TRUMP: Well, I think we're going to be doing that. Would you like to -- would anybody like to talk about that subject, please?
LORI CHAVEZ-DEREMER, U.S. LABOR SECRETARY: I'll comment on the rulemaking process. I think it's the determination, again, secretary of labor, the
determination -- the Department of Labor is issuing their intent today to open up the rulemaking process again for more flexibility. Anytime that you
have a president who's leading, when you can offer more access to health care at a lower rate is a benefit to the American people and to the end
user. And that's exactly what he's doing.
And so you heard before that through the Q and A guidance that was issued today with the other agencies that will give guidance to our employers and
the employees about what the flexibility of that is. And then again, opening that rulemaking process for further determination of the access
that can be had offered in those benefits for all different types of health care. Access is the goal of the Department of Labor.
TRUMP: Good answer.
CHAVEZ-DEREMER: Thank you.
TRUMP: I like this better. I just think. They can do better than me. Yes, please.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Mr. President --
TRUMP: Good job, Lori. You know you're doing a fantastic job.
CHAVEZ-DEREMER: Thank you, Mr. President.
TRUMP: I shouldn't -- I shouldn't tell. I won't say it, that I will not say that she was recommended by the Teamsters. Can you believe it? And she's
turned out to be a gem. An absolute gem. You're doing a great job. Thank you very much.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Mr. President, John Bolton was just indicted.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Do you think we could see your deal-making skills applied to the government shutdown anytime soon?
TRUMP: Well, look, I mean, all we want to do is just extend. We don't want anything. We just want to extend, live with the deal that they had. They
want to spend $1.5 trillion on illegal immigrants, and they want to destroy health care for everyone else. And it's crazy. It's crazy. People that are
here illegally, they want to spend $1.5 trillion. So we're just not going to do it. No, we have to take care of our health care.
Now we're doing that today and we're doing it with, you know, favored nations, the most favored nations. Your costs are going to be dropping
greatly. And I'm really good at -- I'm really happy that it's at the beginning of my administration, because I did insulin and got it down to
like $25, but it doesn't kick in. It didn't kick in for two years by statute, so it couldn't kick in. And I said, boy, I hope I win this
election because if I don't, somebody else is going to take credit for it, Bobby.
And sure as can be, Biden said -- he didn't even know what the hell was happening. And he -- and it was a hard thing for me to do. I got insulin
way down. What was it before that? It was -- it was just massive. It was impossible to afford. And sure as can be, because there was a statute. It
couldn't have been earlier. I said, boy, this falls into the next administration. I better win and all of a sudden I watch this Biden taking
credit for something that I did and on other things, too.
We had a lot of things kick in. So the nice part about this, this is at the beginning of our administration. So I think we're going to see the fruits
of our labor, and I hope on our other situation that we've talked so much about, autism.
[16:35:05]
I hope we're going to see some very good results based on the recommendations that we made. And, you know, we have -- we have time to
watch those results now.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Bolton was just indicted by a grand jury in Maryland. Do you have a reaction to that?
TRUMP: I didn't know that. You tell me for the first time, but I think he's, you know, a bad person. I think he's a bad guy. Yes, he's a bad guy.
It's too bad. But it's the way it goes.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Have you reviewed the case against him?
TRUMP: That's the way it goes, right? That's the way it goes. Well, I what?
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Have you reviewed the case against him?
TRUMP: No, I haven't, I haven't, but I just think he's a bad person OK. Anybody else?
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: What's the timeline for the IVF drug through the National Commission of Priority review voucher, Dr. Makary?
TRUMP: What do you think, Doctor?
MARTY MAKARY, FDA COMMISSIONER: So, first of all, the National Priority Voucher Program says we're going to proactively at the FDA look for amazing
treatments like this IVF treatment. We're going to reach out to the companies. And if it's in line with the president's national priorities,
we're going to put those drugs at the front of the line and get a decision out in weeks instead of a year. And so today, we announced nine drugs that
are going to be recipients. These are products where the manufacturing is going to be in the United States, or it's meeting a large unmet public
health need, like a diabetes drug we announced today or --
PAULA NEWTON, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: OK, we will continue to monitor what is going on there at the White House. Already a lot of breaking news.
First, we do want to tell you that as you just heard there at the White House, sources, not just sources now, he has been indicted. In fact,
President Trump's former national security adviser, John Bolton, is now an indicted man.
The case centers around the alleged mishandling of classified information. In fact, the president was just asked about it right then. He said he had
not heard that yet, but he did underscore that as far as he was concerned John Bolton was, quote, "a bad person." It is something he has said before.
And something that he continues to say. He has pointed out that he would like his Justice Department to continue to investigate this case. This is
highly unorthodox. Normally, the Justice Department would be independent in this kind of investigation.
We will wait to hear more about what that indictment will mean. I believe we have Jim Sciutto now joining us from the IMF.
Jim, I'm sure of interest to you beyond John Bolton, which is big news in and of itself, I mean, look, it's funny to listen to the president speak
again and equivocate, right, when it comes to Russia and Ukraine. And I want to speak specifically now about the Tomahawks. Not only did President
Trump himself say that we need the Tomahawks in the United States, he said, we can't deplete them.
And he said, I don't know what we can do, but we also now have the Kremlin saying that in the two and a half hour phone call that President Trump told
President Putin that he understood his concerns about Tomahawks being introduced in this -- in this war.
Jim, what were your takeaways from what you heard there?
JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR AND CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Listen, once again, it's President Trump listening to the Russian president, right? I
mean, let's be clear here. Russia has been using highly capable ballistic missiles against Ukraine since the start of its full scale invasion all the
time, not to mention the countless drones that's sending over to strike not only Ukrainian energy infrastructure and military targets, but civilian
targets. So when the Kremlin says that the U.S. supplying advanced U.S. technology to Ukraine --
NEWTON: Jim, forgive me. I'm going to interrupt you. Jim, forgive me, and interrupt you. The president is speaking again. We'll talk to you on the
other side.
TRUMP: Would you have a question?
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Yes, Mr. President. I would ask you why this was so important to you, IVF? And why was autism so important to you? What are you
trying to achieve?
TRUMP: Well, autism is like a whole different thing. When you look at, it was one in 20,000. Now it's one in 12. If you look, Bobby, we have
different numbers, but one in 12, one in 28, one in 32. There's a couple of different numbers out there, but it's one in a very, very different number
than it used to be. It used to be one in 20,000. And that was -- that was not that long ago, 20 years ago or so.
And now they had something for boys, for babies, baby boys. It's one in 12. I heard one in 10, Bobby. I heard another one, you know, different list.
But when you think of that, it's not even sustainable. But there's something artificial. When that happens, that's not like a natural. And
then you have certain groups of people that literally don't have autism, and they're not taking some of the things that we're taking.
So we're working very hard. And on IVF, it's just that I have friends, including Katie, that called me and they told me the importance of it. I
wasn't that familiar with it, and now I think I've sort of become the father ever since I heard. There was a bad decision in Alabama, where a
judge wanted all clinics to be immediately closed. Right?
[16:40:06]
And Katie called up and you said you were pretty strongly attacked by your friends that you didn't even know were involved with IVF. Right?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The people that had grandkids.
NEWTON: At the White House there, we'll continue to monitor that. We do want to go back to Jim Sciutto.
I mean, Jim, what he had been saying, which we caught it a little bit late, was the fact that he kind of clarified a little bit on the Tomahawks,
right, and saying that almost as if he implied a threat to President Putin to say, look, if we wanted to, we could give Ukraine Tomahawks?
SCIUTTO: Yes. But also the president repeating what he said oftentimes before about U.S. weapons supplies to Ukraine that U.S. needs come first,
not unusual for the leader of a country to say their own national security needs come first. But it's quite different from what Trump said just a few
days ago that he was quite seriously considering supplying Tomahawks to Ukraine.
Now he's saying he may need them for his own country, but it's also our understanding out of the call that President Putin communicated to Trump
during that call that while Tomahawks would not change the situation on the battlefield, that is Putin's claim, that it would harm U.S.-Russia
relations. And Putin knows that Trump wants to improve U.S.-Russia relations and very much wants to get the two sides in this war at the table
to negotiate.
So can we read that the Russian president successfully pushed the U.S. president off the idea of Tomahawk missiles for now? It's possible. And we
also saw the Ukrainian president as he arrived in Washington saying that once the issue of Tomahawk missiles came up, and I'm paraphrasing here,
that now Russia wants to talk peace. So the Ukrainian president's read is that the threat of Tomahawk missiles may have moved President Putin, at
least to talk about the prospect of negotiations at this point, whether there's actual action or progress is another question, because we've been
here before.
NEWTON: We certainly have, Jim. You've had a front row seat to all of this. As you said, you were also in Alaska. Forgive me for all the interruptions.
We continue to monitor this press conference.
SCIUTTO: No problem.
NEWTON: Jim continues to prepare for his show in about an hour and 20 minutes from now, and we will be right back with more in a moment.
SCIUTTO: Thank you.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:45:19]
NEWTON: You know, most of the deep sea still remains a mystery and hidden within it are submarine canyons, vast underwater valleys that support
marine life and help keep our oceans in balance. Now, as part of the Rolex Perpetual Planet Initiative, the One Ocean Foundation is venturing into the
deep sea off the coast of Italy to explore and protect one of these fragile ecosystems. And that's the focus of today's "Call to Earth."
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GINEVRA BOLDROCCHI, SCIENTIFIC PROJECT COORDINATOR, ONE OCEAN FOUNDATION: The Mediterranean Sea and the Canyon of Caprera is my home. The canyon is
sustaining so many different species, including sharks, the fin whale, the sperm whale, striped dolphin, bottlenose dolphins. A lot of dolphins. So
this area needs to be protected.
BILL WEIR, CNN CHIEF CLIMATE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This is the canyon of Caprera. Stretching more than a thousand meters deep, it is one of the
Mediterranean's largest and most biodiverse underwater ecosystems.
In the rough blue waters spanning some 20 to 40 kilometers off the coast of Sardinia, researchers are about to explore the canyon's seabed for the
first time with an ROV, a remote-operated vehicle.
FRANCESCO ENRICHETTI, RESEARCHER, UNIVERSITY OF GENOA: The area we are going to explore is located deeper in the range of 800, 1,000 meters depth.
This area is extremely interesting for us because we have very little information at the level. So we hope to find interesting organisms there.
GUIDO GUY, ENGINEER: You see how many fishing lines.
WEIR: Sailor-turned-engineer Guido Guy is a pioneer in underwater ROV exploration and will be piloting this mission today.
ENRICHETTI: These organisms grow on the rocks of the sea bottoms, forming these huge forests, which are extremely important for other organisms.
WEIR: While the ROV works underwater, marine biologist Ginevra Boldrocchi works on the surface, collecting acoustic data, pollution levels and animal
DNA.
BOLDROCCHI: The overall mission of the project is conservation. The first step of every conservation initiative and so you need science to prove that
the area is actually important. So the first thing we are going to do is the DNA sampling. We want to get all the biological traces which are
present in our sea water. And then we do either the acoustics. This is not only detecting the marine mammals but also noise pollution made from
maritime traffic.
WEIR: Submarine canyons play a fundamental role in ocean health. They cycle nutrients, store carbon and provide a habitat for countless marine species
from corals to sharks.
BOLDROCCHI: At the moment, the canyon has no kind of effective protection at all. So we are going to lose our refugees for so many endangered species
and we will lose a lot of biodiversity.
WEIR: After surveying the depths of the canyon, today's ROV expedition uncovered rare corals and a wide array of marine life.
ENRICHETTI: And we collected these small gorgonians. Identification is impossible through the images. So we have to analyze it at the laboratory.
WEIR: They also found the worst kind of human impact with fishing gear and litter scattered across the seafloor.
ENRICHETTI: We all serve a rare population of the soft bottom gorgonian completely destroyed by the impact of these long lines.
WEIR: As their research continues, they hope this data will help strengthen their call for a legal framework to protect the canyon and safeguard its
future.
BOLDROCCHI: We want to show that we have important community also in the bottom that deserve to be protected.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
NEWTON: Now let us know what you're doing to answer the call with the hashtag #CalltoEarth.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:52:27]
NEWTON: European markets jumped as the French prime minister survived not one but two no confidence votes. The CAC more than 1 percent higher. Other
indices you see there also closed higher. It comes after Sebastien Lecornu won crucial backing from the Socialist Party after he suspended the French
president's controversial pension reform until after the 2027 election.
Still, Europe is facing no shortage of headwinds. Political instability in Europe's second largest economy is causing uncertainty among investors.
Meanwhile, exports fell in Germany, adding to the country's woes as the Bundesbank president discussed with us earlier. And President Donald
Trump's tariffs are threatening key industries like pharmaceuticals, which are crucial, of course, to countries like Ireland.
Paschal Donohoe is the Irish Finance minister and president of the Eurogroup, and he joins us now from those meetings in Washington.
Welcome to the program. And I point out, you know, you are president. You do represent all European finance ministers. And as we were just pointing
out, no shortage of adversity. What do you believe leads Europe out of these challenges?
PASCHAL DONOHOE, IRISH FINANCE MINISTER: So, yes, indeed. We are facing adversity. But it's also worthwhile saying that the overall economic
performance of the European Union is better than expected. We're not growing as fast as the rest of the world, but we are growing, and we've
recently revised our growth forecast up, and many, many economies within Europe are also defined by having record levels of employment.
That being said, we do face challenges quickly how we're responding back to new trade agreements across the world, how we make better use of savings
within Europe, and how we invest in our own future in a different way.
NEWTON: You know all of what you're talking about was discussed last year by Mario Draghi in his report. It was meant to jumpstart Europe
competitiveness and growth. Mario Draghi himself, right, said last month that Europe is not moving quickly enough on any of this. And he fears that
the prospects for really growth that would rival the United States, that the prospects for that are fading fast. Do you agree with him?
DONOHOE: So we are moving, but I do agree with him. We need to move faster. But there are signs that that is beginning to happen. I will point, for
example, to the work that's underway in the European Union regarding a better securitization market and the contribution that can make to economic
growth. I would point to the progress that we've recently made in agreeing key principles for a digital euro, as indicators of a faster pace of
decision-making.
[16:55:07]
But I think it's equally fair to say that there are other decisions we need to make in a faster way. But I can detect the political willingness to do
that and evidence that that is beginning to happen.
NEWTON: And in terms of how that happens and when it happens, we can turn to Ireland. You know, you're famously a trading nation. You're home to many
multinational companies. And then Ireland really does find itself in a fragile place right now. You see the shocks from really a fraying trading
system globally. It is coming to Ireland's shores.
What can you do to insulate yourself? And we have discussed many times on this program how, you know, industries like pharmaceuticals in Ireland are
specifically vulnerable.
DONOHOE: It's not about insulation. It is indeed about how we make a strength out of openness. Many different shocks and challenges have come to
our shores in recent years and decades, and we -- and are agile in responding back to us. We entirely accept that global supply chains,
particularly global supply chains, but at home from America, need to deliver more for the American economy. And that is indeed the agenda of
President Trump.
But we would contend that global supply chains can play a role in the success of American companies. And if American companies want to be present
in Europe, if they want to ship their exports to other parts of the world, and Ireland can play a role in that. And we are working with many companies
with regard to that at the moment.
NEWTON: It is not an argument right now that is convincing in any way, shape or form in the Oval Office. Do you have any evidence that President
Trump is listening because, you know, so many countries have already tried to make that argument?
DONOHOE: Well, so we now have a new agreement between the European Union and America that put some places, certain level of tariffs between trade,
between the U.S. and America. And we need to show that we can make that work. And what we accept is that trade needs to be mutually beneficial. We
accept it needs to work in a Transatlantic way for both sides of the Atlantic. And we're committed to finding a way of doing that.
We can see many, many companies that are present in Ireland that have been present in Ireland for decades, increasing their investment within America,
but at the same time, if global supply chains can play a role in their success and they want to be present in Europe, then we'll be making a case
for Ireland being part of that chain. And that is indeed a contention and a case that we are making.
NEWTON: OK, as I said, not a lot of details yet on the trade deal. As you point out, though, one is in the works and we will continue to see how
those details play out.
Mr. Donohoe, thank you so much and appreciate you joining us.
DONOHOE: Thank you very much.
NEWTON: And that is QUEST MEANS BUSINESS. I'm Paula Newton. "THE LEAD WITH JAKE TAPPER" starts now.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
END
