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Quest Means Business

Trump Meets with Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orban at White House; Trump: Talking Trade, Energy and Ukraine War with Prime Minister Orban; Angola: 50 Years of Independence; Angolan President On Response To Deadly Protests; Angola Produces Record Volume Of Diamonds Amid Falling Prices. Aired 4-5p ET

Aired November 07, 2025 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[16:00:28]

RICHARD QUEST, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST, "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS": Closing bell ringing on Wall Street in New York. Extraordinary! If you look at the

markets, they clawed their way back. The Dow has actually ended just about almost in positive territory. And as the gavel is hit and trading is

brought to an end, positive on the Dow. Well one reason is possibly tonight is a special edition of QUEST MEANS BUSINESS. A special edition as Angola

celebrates 50 years since independence, we are here tonight.

Those are the markets and these are the events of the day you and I are talking about over the next hour.

Hungary's Prime Minister, Viktor Orban visits The White House, where he is hoping for a new chapter in Hungarian U.S. relations.

Also, the President of Angola tonight, in an exclusive interview, tells me he respects the constitutional limits on two terms in power, that would

suggest he is in his final term in office.

And we are going to dazzle you away. We've got at least $3 million worth of diamonds as the diamond industry hopes to expand here in Angola, and the

country hopes to buy DeBeers.

Live tonight from Angola. It is Friday, November the 7th. I am Richard Quest and yes, in Luanda, I mean business.

Good evening tonight from the Angolan capital, we are here in Luanda and it is delightful to be here. A very special week in Luanda and for the

country.

Angola is celebrating 50 years of independence. The capital itself has undergone rapid change thanks to this country's vast natural resources. One

of the most expensive cities now on earth because of, take a look and see the skyline there all lit up this evening.

So on tonight's program, we have the Angolan president. He is in his second term and he has overseen massive transformation in the country. He is also

speaking to business leaders, capitalizing on Angola's new era and we are talking about all of those things. We've got Ken Johnson from mining. You

can see agriculture, we will also be talking about, but we must begin tonight in Washington, where Hungary's Prime Minister Viktor Orban, says he

is ready to open up a new golden age with the United States.

The Prime Minister in Washington meeting with his long-time ally and friend, President Trump. Hungary -- I beg your pardon -- Hungary relies

heavily on Russia for oil and that has been a thorn of contention with the President. President Trump wants all European countries to stop buying oil

from Russia. In many ways, making the price for increased sanctions or actions against Russia.

Prime Minister Orban wants an exemption from the U.S. sanctions on buying energy. Mr. Trump seems likely to grant that wish.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: We are looking at it because it is very difficult for him to get the oil and gas from

other areas. Many European countries are buying oil and gas from Russia, and they have been for years. And I say, what's that all about?

VIKTOR ORBAN, HUNGARIAN PRIME MINISTER: So that will be one of the issues for today to explain clearly what would be the consequences for the

Hungarian people and for the Hungarian economy, not to get oil and gas from Russia because we are supplied by pipelines.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

QUEST: Our senior White House reporter, Kevin Liptak is in West Palm Beach, Florida where President Trump is due to arrive later today. Now, this is

interesting because this really is where politics all sort of gets a bit weird because the last thing Donald Trump wants to do is put Viktor Orban,

one of his closest European allies, in a difficult position.

But at the same time, he has to still hold the line on the question of sanctions to those who buy Russian oil, because that's India's problem.

[16:05:10]

KEVIN LIPTAK, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Absolutely, and this is really testing the President's willingness to hold a firm line on this

Russia sanctions strategy.

You know, Viktor Orban came into this meeting clearly knowing what the objective was. He talked about how rigged the last administration was. He

talked about migration and immigration using all of the kind of trigger words that he knew would get a good reaction from President Trump. And, of

course, these are two kindred spirits. You know, this conservative nationalism that both of them have adopted. Clearly, Orban knew sort of how

to wield that inside the Cabinet room as they were sitting down for lunch.

Now, the argument he is making is that Hungary is landlocked. It doesn't have any coastline that would enable it to import oil from other sources.

You know, experts have questioned whether that's true, and other countries like Poland have made efforts to wean themselves off of Russian oil,

despite some similar geographic restraints. But obviously, President Trump is hearing that argument and seems to be swayed by it.

I think the question going forward is whether this will apply to other countries. You know, the biggest purchasers of Russian oil, whether it is

China, which the President certainly doesn't seem close to applying secondary sanctions on, or India, which he has already done so. He is very

close to those leaders as well.

And so I think they will be watching this meeting very closely.

QUEST: You see, the problem with Hungary is it gets more than 90 percent of its oil from Russia. Now, as Viktor Orban says, it comes via pipeline. It

is very difficult to replace it easily because of the geography of Hungary, but at the same time, this really isn't a gift of Mr. Trump and the

Europeans want the Europeans want -- except maybe Hungary -- they want greater sanctions from the U.S.

LIPTAK: Yes, absolutely. And I think, you know, for Orban, he has actually increased purchases from Russia since the Ukraine war started. They've gone

up by 30 percent or so.

And so you can see how he has looked at this and not seen it as a reason to sort of punish Russia, and it speaks to Orban's sort of broader alignment

in this entire conflict.

You know, he has not supplied any weapons to Ukraine like the rest of Europe has. He is, you know, someone who is a sympathizer of Vladimir

Putin. And I think, you know, he had been due to host this summit between the President, President Trump and President Putin in Budapest. Obviously,

that all fell apart.

One of the objectives he had in the meeting today was to try and resurrect that. Remember, Orban is in a reelection battle. It is one of the closest

reelection races he has faced. Obviously, he is an authoritarian leader. The U.S. has questioned the elections in Hungary in the last couple of

cycles, but he is sort of under pressure to show that he has solid foreign policy credentials at a moment when he has been ostracized by the rest of

Europe. And clearly, he views President Trump as someone who can help him show himself as a statesman and as a diplomat when so many other countries

in the region have not really been providing that outlet for him.

Q Kevin Liptak who is in -- looking there, you're in West Palm Beach, I guess the President is heading down for the weekend, it being a Friday.

Kevin, thank you. Have a good weekend.

Now, let's talk about Hungary and the unique position that it currently enjoys in Europe. Obviously, it is a core member of the E.U. It has the

friendliest relations with Russia and Viktor Orban is a close ally of President Trump as the two leaders underscored today.

The U.S. President indicating he is still opening to meeting Vladimir Putin in Budapest. You'll remember, of course, that earlier proposed summit on

Ukraine was shelved.

At The White House today, Viktor Orban suggested that the United States and Hungary are more realistic than the rest of Europe about Ukraine's ability

to defeat Russia.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Viktor feels were going to get that war ended in the not too distant future.

Viktor, do you want to talk about that?

ORBAN: Well, I am strongly convinced. So the question is whether we, Westerners are unified or not? The problem is that the President has huge

efforts which are just splendid and very positive for the European continent and all the peoples of Europe. But at the same time, we are not

unified because Brussels and the Europeans have a different approach to the war.

So the only pro-peace government is the United States government and the small Hungary in Europe, anyway.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

QUEST: There you have it. It couldn't be clearer.

Joining me now Balazs Orban, no relation, Political Director for Prime Minister Viktor Orban joins me now from Washington. That is an interesting

dilemma for the European Union, beautifully put by your Prime Minister that you do see things differently than the rest of Brussels.

[16:10:20]

You can be a bridge, but those in Europe say you can also be an obstacle.

BALAZS ORBAN, POLITICAL DIRECTOR FOR PRIME MINISTER VIKTOR ORBAN: Good evening. Thank you very much for having me. So for Hungary, the war in

Ukraine is not a hypothetical or not even a geopolitical issue. It is an everyday reality which harms us as well. It is a neighboring country, so it

is a clear and present danger for Hungary.

So our biggest and most important priority is to close the war, and now there is a new President of the United States who is in the peace camp and

who is doing everything what he can do to convince the Ukrainians and the Russians to stop fighting. This is something which is highly appreciated by

the Hungarian people.

I think it would -- it is highly appreciated by other European nations as well, but unfortunately the governments, European governments see things in

a different way.

QUEST: If we take that different perspective, do you think, for instance, Hungary tonight will get that exemption? Because yes, it will be -- it is

very difficult. I have spoken, of course, on many occasions to the Foreign Minister. It is very difficult for Hungary to easily replace the Russian

oil, both for technical and geographical reasons.

B. ORBAN: Yes, that's also a reality for us. We are a landlocked country. We have one major pipeline and the secondary pipeline in the oil issue. And

if we lose the major pipeline, the secondary one cannot be enough now.

So we are very thankful to President Trump that he promised that we get the exemption on oil and gas. That created the situation where Hungary can

maintain its energy sovereignty and independence and energy security as well.

QUEST: So on this core question of Hungary's ability to facilitate, if you will, at the same time, I mean, I guess whenever I've spoken to other

European leaders, they always make the same thing about Hungary, that they can't be seen to allow Russia to have substantial territorial gains by

force. And whatever -- yes, you get a ceasefire that stops, but where that ceasefire line holds and what happens with the eastern part and the Donbas

region, the Europeans say you don't agree with your E.U. colleagues.

B. ORBAN: Well, the problem is that there are no real European talks on that issue. So the President of the United States was the first one who was

talking about possibility of peace and he restored the communication channels with the Russians. So now there are direct American-Russian talks.

But what is Europe doing? Actually, they deny that Europeans should also talk to Russians.

So what you just mentioned is actually Europeans are talking about issues among each other, but it has no impact. And they are actually -- they just

act like agents of the Ukrainians, which brings us nothing closer to the negotiations and to the potential peace agreement.

This would be Hungary's top priority and this is why we have a disagreement. It is a completely different strategy based on different

goals.

QUEST: Mr. Orban, it is a very busy day, and I am grateful for you giving us your time tonight and wish you a safe trip back to Budapest.

Thank you, sir, for joining us.

B. ORBAN: Thank you.

QUEST: And so to our coverage from or from Angola. The President of the country tells me tonight his top priorities or certainly one of them,

besides peace and stability in the country, attracting foreign investment.

On November the 11th, Angola celebrates 50 years of independence from Portugal. But decades after independence, I promise you one thing they may

not agree with much together, but they'll all agree, everybody here it has been difficult. A horrific Civil War that tore through the country from

1975 to 2002.

President Lourenco says the country and its economy have now, since that Civil War ended, have turned the corner and made great advances.

[16:15:13]

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOAO LOURENCO, ANGOLA'S PRESIDENT (through translator): Fortunately, we managed to overcome that long and difficult period. I can say that the most

important achievement that was made over these years is the achievement of peace in April 2002. That was the biggest gain.

Everything else happened as a consequence of the peaceful situation we have been living in for about 23 years.

QUEST: The changes that you have made when you took office in 2017, you made a priority of economic growth and that involved fundamentally

restructuring the economy, giving it more market forces, making it more capitalist, if you will. But it wasn't easy, was it?

LOURENCO (through translator): At that time, in 2017, when I took the office as President, my top priority was to establish a good business

environment in order to attract good investment, both foreign and domestic. This is a process that can't be done overnight, and the results are good

and we are managing to attract important foreign investors to invest their resources in our country.

QUEST: Did you find it more difficult to make the changes than you thought it would be, particularly, for example, on corruption?

There is no doubt you have dramatically improved the situation the country. Has risen, you know, quite considerably, but it has been hard work and it

has been harder, perhaps, than you thought.

LOURENCO (through translator): Yes, I can confirm, indeed that the fight against corruption has proven to be more difficult than what I had

imagined. Nobody wanted to lose all those privileges that, let's say, had been handed to them on a platter in the past.

QUEST: Yes. Absolutely.

LOURENCO: Yes. Certainly.

LOURENCO (through translator): So I knew that it was going to be a fight, and it is a fight. Let's remember that at that time, the law allowed for

people to give back to the state assets that had been stolen, but what some expectation hardly anyone did. So we had to let justice do its job and it

is doing it. Nonetheless, those who lost their privileges are still resisting in various forms.

I believe from now on, the situation will never be the same as it was in the past, because corruption did cause a lot of havoc in our country,

especially when it comes to its economic development.

QUEST: Let's talk about where the country grows because the non-oil economy, the diversification from non-oil is crucially important, and also

your alliances are very important.

Do you have to choose? And if you do, where is your preference between U.S. and China?

LOURENCO (through translator): Well, you're talking about the need to diversify the Angolan economy. It would not rely on oil revenues only. But

with regard to the partners that Angola has established in order to achieve the goal of diversifying the economy, I should say that everyone is

welcome. There is no need to exclude one in order for the other to prevail.

We have good relations and good economic relations with various countries, including the two countries you've mentioned -- the United States and China

and others. The world is not confined only to those two countries.

QUEST: I figured that would be the way you would approach it. But do you have a preference? Do you have a feeling of are you more naturally aligned

to the U.S. Western side or to China? Or maybe not?

LOURENCO (through translator): Well, we have opted for a market economy. When we talk about a market economy, the U.S. are its main promoters. But

let me say that and everyone today recognizes this, China is the world's factory nowadays, and being the world's factory, naturally we should not be

forced to abdicate having economic cooperation with such an important partner.

QUEST: If we look at Africa and African trade, I have been to several conferences now, and the view is that the amount of intra-African trade

needs to grow considerably and that Africa, in some senses, is its own worst enemy. You know, aviation, you have to fly to Dubai to get to the

other side of the continent. The customs barriers.

[16:20:10]

Would you agree that more needs to be done? That African leaders need to make more fundamental changes to get the continent trading better?

LOURENCO (through translator): Well in order for us to improve intra-Africa trade, and that is everyone's wish in our countries, we need to take care

above all of something called investment in infrastructure. That's why we held here in Luanda days ago, a summit of the African Union, in which the

topic was precisely the mobilization of funding for infrastructures essential to the development of the continent.

Therefore, in order to have trade, there needs to be mobility. We have to airports, ports, railways that connect to other countries and highways. We

have to invest in all of this and energy production infrastructures, not just for each country individually, but so that one country can produce and

supply to three or four other countries.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

QUEST: The president of Angola, you'll hear more from him later in the program as we talk about the political fortunes and crucially, is he going

to leave at the end of his second term? Hear what he has to say on that.

QUEST MEANS BUSINESS tonight live from Luanda. We are looking at how the country has embraced a new era after years of war and colonial rule. You

join us tonight, the view there, by the way, that stunning view which comes to you from the Intercontinental Hotel, the Intercontinental is where our

program comes from. Delighted to be here tonight. QUEST MEANS BUSINESS.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

QUEST: Good evening tonight from Luanda, Angola's bustling capital. Take a look at the map and you'll see it. The Southern African country prepares to

celebrate 50 years of independence.

I've been looking at what the future might hold for Angola.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

QUEST (voice over): As I walk around Luanda, Angola's flair is on full display everywhere I look.

From the newly renovated waterfront to the old colonial architecture, this city blends its history with its current promise.

[16:25:06]

ALEXIO JUNIOR, GUIDE, LELU TOUR: As you can see, Luanda is a mixture of eras, right? The architecture is like the old and the new work side by

side. You see those sleek glass buildings alongside with colonial landmarks. It means old and new are working together, right?

And this place also is a demonstration of our resilience and our compromise, our commitment with the future.

QUEST (voice over): Angola is preparing to celebrate and mark its 50th anniversary of independence from Portugal.

It is a sharp turnaround after a brutal 27-year Civil War, which ended in 2002. Hundreds of thousands of people, died and millions were forced to

flee their homes.

Now, as a local tour guide from Lelu Tour Luanda tells me, the country is looking to the future.

JUNIOR: Angola's future is in the hands of young people. We have peace. We have development, although slow, but it is happening, so the future is

really in the hands of young people and the responsibility of all Angolans to support the younger generation in order to achieve their dreams and

their full potential.

QUEST (voice over): Angola is blessed geographically. It sits along the Atlantic and there are vast natural resources -- oil, diamonds and so much

more. These benefits helped the country's economic development last year growing four percent -- if only everyone was sharing in that growth.

The World Bank points out the country faces high inequality and diversifying the economy and bringing the benefits to everyone, urban and

rural is a key challenge.

And then there is human rights and corruption. Also present and needing to be tackled, Transparency International ranks Angola 121st out of 180 on the

list. There has been progress over the last decade and that gives hope.

QUEST (on camera): What's your dream?

JUNIOR: My dream is to see Angola as a destination for everybody, to see Angola as number one country in Africa.

QUEST (voice over): Now, 23 years after the ending of that Civil War, the tall task on building the peace.

QUEST (on camera): And the economic progress in Angola is everywhere to see. For instance, here on the Luanda Bay, from the very expensive

apartment buildings to the skyscrapers of downtown. And just look at all the recreational boats over there on the water.

But you might say, so far so good, it is what comes next. That's the big challenge, because Angola still has massive levels of inequality and the

country in 2027 is going to arguably face its largest challenge, which is a truly contested presidential election.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

QUEST: Joining me now, Fernandes Wanda, the coordinator of the Center for Social and Economic Research at Agostinho Neto University.

Sir, thank you. Welcome.

FERNANDES WANDA, COORDINATOR OF THE CENTER FOR SOCIAL AND ECONOMIC RESEARCH, AGOSTINHO NETO UNIVERSITY: Thank you for having me here.

QUEST: If we look at the -- I mean, the vast progress that the country has made, but it is definitely at a moment of change again, isn't it?

WANDA: Yes, definitely. If you look at where we were before and where we are now, definitely, it is a turning point again.

QUEST: What is the biggest worry and threat here?

WANDA: The main threat, though, it comes from the pace of those changes. We have to bear in mind that most of the population here in Angola are young.

The youth is the majority, and youth usually has no patience for change, and they need change and they need rapid and fast change and it is taking

time.

QUEST: Right, and that generation, the latest barely remembers the Civil War.

WANDA: Yes.

QUEST: So they sort of say, right, fine. That was then, what are you doing for me now?

WANDA: That's it. That's true. That's the challenge. They have no idea and experience of what happened, of the past. Of course, past is in the past,

but we cannot forget what happened in the past.

QUEST: Where does Angola naturally sit? It is obviously in Africa, but its relations with China, with the United States. You heard the President. He

is trying to do a very delicate balancing act.

WANDA: Yes, but Angola has been doing that ever since, you know, since independence. If you look at the history, the economic history, Angola has

tried to make -- you know, keep good relations with all parties. Remember, even though we moved towards socialism in 1977, after the First Congress of

MPLA, but American companies, oil companies were here in Cabinda.

[16:30:00]

WANDA: Even though we moved towards socialism in 1977 after the first congress of MPLA, but American companies, oil companies, were here in cabin

there, all these days, all these years, they never left, and Cuban troops were protecting them in Cabinda, in Malonga facilities, good example.

RICHARD QUEST, CNN HOST: Later in this program, you're going to hear the president say he respects the two term limit of the Constitution.

And yet, there are still people who believe that there will be a wiggle out that somehow he's going to try and stay. What do you think?

WANDA: OK, looking at the recent developments, to stay in power as President of the Republic, it's a bit difficult. It would imply

constitutional changes.

But if you look at the change that happened in last Congress within his own political party, what may happen is like he may stay as president of his

own political party and not as president of the Republic, and have a different person, you know.

QUEST: Right, but that would then be the power behind the throne. I mean, that would be a real problem.

I mean, first of all, you'd have to change the Constitution, because the Constitution has it as a list, not a direct president. And secondly, the

last thing a new president would want would be the politic leader to be the old president.

WANDA: Yes, but it's likely to happen, because the way it is as we speak today, the change in the statutes, no amendments done within his own

political party would allow for that.

So, in the past, the leader of the party will be also automatically the candidate for the presidency. But now it's no longer the case.

QUEST: So, you think he's going as president?

WANDA Not really. We'll see.

QUEST: We'll see. Thank you, sir. And there you have the conundrum.

Coming up in a moment, part two of my interview with the president, he explains his response to this summer's deadly protest and also this vexed

question of what comes next. QUEST MEANS BUSINESS is in Angola tonight.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:35:05]

QUEST: Hello, I'm Richard Quest. There is more QUEST MEANS BUSINESS from Angola in just a moment when you're going to hear part two of my interview

with the country's president.

Also on the program, Angola is preparing to challenge Botswana with a bid for a majority stake in the diamond giant De Beers. I'll be talking to the

CEO of a Canadian miner, Lipari about that. We'll only get to it after news headlines, because this is CNN, and on this network, the news always comes

first.

President Trump has met with the Hungarian Prime Minister, Viktor Orban, at the White House. While Mr. Orban is a longtime ally, there are now tensions

over Hungary's reliance on Russian oil and gas. The far-right prime minister seeks an exemption from U.S. sanctions against purchasing Russian

energy.

The number of canceled and delayed flights at major U.S. airports is likely to grow over the coming days. The Trump administration has ordered a four

percent reduction in flights on Friday.

According to the U.S. transportation secretary, that figure may rise as much as 20 percent if the U.S. government shutdown drags on well into next

week.

Kendrick Lamar has received nine Grammy nominations, including Album Record and Song of the Year. Other top nominees include Lady Gaga, Bad Bunny and

Sabrina Carpenter. The winners will be revealed at the Grammy Awards on February 1st of next year.

Angola's president told me he had no choice but to respond to the recent unrest over fuel prices. The protests broke out earlier in the year. They

turned extremely violent in July, and the government sent in security forces to restore order. It's known at least 30 people were killed over a

three-day period. I asked the president whether his response went too far.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOAO LOURENCO, PRESIDENT OF ANGOLA (through translator): I don't think so. The reaction was proportionate to the threat, because what happened weren't

just mere demonstrations, demonstrations when they appear peaceful, do not put at stake human lives or public and private property.

Obviously, governments have no grounds for justifying violence. Therefore, the government's reaction was due to the fact that what happened were not

just mere protests, but sort of a rebellion that destroyed property, both private and public. And in these situations, this state is obligated to

protect it.

QUEST: But this criticism about the administration, that some of the new laws, particularly over press freedom, the disinformation laws, that the

language is too vague, disinformation, foreign influences that the potential, sir -- the potential for abuse of the law by future

administrations. Why has these press laws been written so vaguely, and how do you respond to the criticism that it is an anti-democratic move?

LOURENCO (voice over): I don't know if there are many countries in Africa and beyond that have more freedom of speech than more freedom of the press

than Angola.

For those who are familiar with the reality in Angola, I'm sure they will agree with what I just said.

Today, In addition to state media, there is a large number of community, radio stations, newspapers and digital platforms. Even during election

periods, the Angolan government has never cut the internet whatsoever, like they do in some other countries. So it's not fair to say that there is none

or little freedom of speech and the press in Angola.

QUEST: But the critics do think. And the critic Well, having read the laws, particularly this idea of what is, you know, extra territorial, what is

against Angola, there is -- these laws could be abused and think -- and I think that that is the problem. People think that not your administration,

but a future administration could abuse these laws against free speech.

LOURENCO (voice over): I don't think there is such a threat of the authorities using the law to curtail freedom of speech and freedom of the

press. I can guarantee you there is no such threat the free press is here in Angola to cover all of the activities, and in principle, it will

continue to do so.

[16:40:00]

QUEST: And now, sir, the most difficult part of the interview, the bit where I ask you, in 2027 are you going to stand again to be president, or

do you accept that you are ineligible to be president again because the Constitution only allows two terms?

So, let's be clear what I'm asking. Do you intend to stand to be president again after 2027?

LOURENCO (voice over): Mr. Richard Quest, you have just said it. It's not me who said it, because you know what our constitution says, the

Constitution only allows two terms. Therefore, this is a non-question. You understand that the Constitution allows only two terms. If the Constitution

only allows two terms, the fact that you are asking me this question means that you are considering the possibility that we would violate the

Constitution, which is not going to happen. We respect the Constitution and the law.

QUEST: Then I ask you, sir, do you have any intention to try and change the constitution for a third term?

LOURENCO (voice over): We had the opportunity to change the Article in the Constitution that would have given me the possibility to run for a third

term. We didn't do so, and we are not forced by anyone to not do so. It was our decision to not do it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

QUEST: I think whichever way you cut it, the President has just said he's not standing for a third term any which way or backwards. I'll talk more

about that in the Profitable Moment at the end of the program.

The president also said he's working to attract foreign business to Angola. One example, of course, is the Canadian -- is diamond producers Lipari.

Look at the diamonds. We'll be talking -- the diamonds are a major export. Here you have hundreds of them.

I'll be talking to the party's chief executive as his industry faces tariffs, lab grown alternatives. Yes, those are real diamonds that you are

looking at. Nothing lab grown about them. It's QUEST MEANS BUSINESS.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:45:05]

QUEST: Welcome back. The mining ministers of Angola and nearby Botswana have met today as the two countries try to take control of the diamond

industry giant De Beers, there's a name and a half.

Now, the bidding war between these two countries could be an earthquake for the diamond industry. Botswana and Angola are the second and third biggest

diamond producers in the world, and they want to take control of De Beers.

Ken Johnson is the president of CEO of Lipari Mining, the Canadian based company is developing multiple diamond mining projects in Angola. He's here

with me now. These diamonds from the salade sodium (PH) which is the diamond marketing arm here. There are 300 -- well, at least 300 about $3

million worth of diamonds. You are hoping to start producing diamonds in this country?

KEN JOHNSON, PRESIDENT OF CEO, LIPARI MINING: Exactly. Yes, we're producing in Brazil right now. We're Brazilian company, even though we're listed in

Canada. But our future really is here in Angola. We've got a project in northeast of Angola, close to the Catoca mine, which is the largest

producer here in Angola, and we plan to put our mind into production within the next two years.

QUEST: So, what do you make of this bidding war between Angola and Botswana? Obviously, they're going to try and do a deal, because the last

thing they want to do is really compete against each other for De Beers.

JOHNSON: Certainly. And look at Angola's production is growing. It's been growing every year. In another two years, they'll probably surpass Botswana

in terms of volume. They've already surpassed them in terms of diamond value of their production.

So, you know, Angola is going to be a force in the diamond world. And certainly, you know, they don't want Botswana, who's already got a 15

percent equity interest in De Beers, to end up with a majority control when Angola is going to have more production, probably in the next few years

than Botswana.

QUEST: Now these diamonds, these are not polished diamonds. These are rough diamonds as they say.

JOHNSON: These are rough. These are the way. I love them, like this. But obviously they have to be polished. The majority of the diamonds are

polished in India.

QUEST: Why are the price of diamonds? Why is it weak at the moment for the -- for them?

JOHNSON: It's like a perfect storm. There's a number of different issues that have that have hit the diamond industry. One is lab grown diamonds.

They've eroded a portion of the -- of the demand for natural diamonds. They right now lab grown diamonds account for just under 20 percent of the

demand, world demand.

So, that's obviously taken away a part of the market. Although lab grown diamonds are worth a 10th of what natural diamonds are worth. Natural

diamonds worth are luxury items. They're much higher value.

QUEST: Here's the funny part, these are only worth something because we think they're worth something. I mean, it's a concept, isn't it?

JOHNSON: It's a concept that's been bred for years, for decades. De Beers, you know, the diamond is forever slogan that they had. I mean, that was

very famous and, you know, when you go out to buy a diamond for your fiance. I mean, you have a choice to either buy a lab grown diamond that

was produced an hour ago in a microwave oven, or buy a diamond that comes from a Kimberlite pipe that's over 100 million years old. In the case of

the kimberlites here in Angola.

You know, these are -- these are diamonds that are produced by nature.

QUEST: Where's the gentleman, sir? Can you come here? You sir. Come here, sir. You come here. Because I want to take one of the diamonds out. But I

don't want anybody to sort of suddenly rush at me and think that I'm going to -- can I take this diamond out?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes

QUEST: I can. There we go. Let's take this one and this one. Thank you very much. Thank you very much.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You're welcome, sir.

QUEST: He said, I just want to make sure he doesn't think I'm about to run off with them. I can tell you, there's a large number of people who are all

terrified one of these diamonds is going to suddenly and go up -- go up myself. They are beautiful, aren't they?

JOHNSON: They are beautiful. I mean, this one is the most valuable here, because it's a nice cuttable stone, almost an octahedron. It's a beautiful

diamond.

QUEST: How much is that worth do you think? Let's not be vulgar and talk money.

JOHNSON: No

QUEST: There you go. Real diamonds.

JOHNSON: But as you said, there's about $3 million worth of diamonds here.

QUEST: I might have one. Christopher, no, I have to leave all of them behind.

As we continue tonight, Joe Biden visited -- thank you guys. I'm so excited. Thank you.

JOHNSON: Thank you very much.

QUEST: As we continue tonight, Joe Biden visited Angola last year, one of his last trips as president. He met with Carrinho Group CEO, Nelson Carr.

He know as one of the company's food processing facilities. The former U.S. president declared that Africa would soon transform into a food exporter.

I sat down with Mr. Carr, he know who is on the front lines of that very effort, and he told me, Angola is a country that likes to think big.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[16:50:04]

NELSON CARR, CEO, CARRINHO GROUP: Right now, we are totally focused on Angola. We have started on, say --

QUEST: Which is a large country, by the way, 36 million people. There's plenty to keep you busy.

CARR: For now, you keep being busy. As you can understand, Richard, we've been basically the pioneering of transforming Angola from an industrialized

country in terms of, let's say, food, into an industrialized basically economy. If you -- if I can take into account, let's say, in 2017, you

basically only had one meal plan in this entire country.

We built our complex that we started operations in 2019 and now I'll say, basically, six years later, there's more than 10 meals, 10 let's say pasta

plants. So basically we pioneer, and that's the thing. What we do different than anywhere in the world.

We basically, we -- let's say, create this complex which is totally integrated with 17 plants and capable of basically changing an entire

economy.

QUEST: This is the crucial point, because your -- the structure of your company is not seen anywhere else. This idea of everything from you don't

own the farms, but essentially, you pay the farms right the way through to the crop, through to the production, through to the manufacturer, through

to the distribution.

CARR: Absolutely.

QUEST: Why does it work here?

CARR: Richard, it worked here because we basically because we were so late into the game as a country that we were able to see that everyone that was

basically done everywhere in the world, and be able to do it here.

And the only way we believe that you can do at the pace that we are doing basically in less than a decade we make in this country, let's say, a food

manufactured country, you can't do with integration, and that's why we followed that path, and that integration that we did, like with the

industry, has allowed us to now create this market for the agriculture, which we are pioneering also in Angola.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

QUEST: We will have more of that interview with Nelson that's on Monday's program.

In just a moment, Angolan President Joao Lourenco has showed me one of the country's most famous sculptures. I was determined to find out the meaning

of behind The Thinker

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

QUEST: I can't decide, is it an uplifting thinker, or is it a despair?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:55:15]

QUEST: Wherever you go in this country, el pensador The Thinker. It is the sculpture that defines Angola. I asked the president what it means.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

QUEST: Wherever I go, I see these. Explain to me, sir, what is it about?

LOURENCO (through translator): This is a symbol of Angolan culture, mainly in the north eastern part of our country.

From the lundas the chocolate culture. The original name is Samanhonga, in Chokwe language. In Portuguese, we call him The Thinker. Because of this

posture --

QUEST: What is it? I can't decide, is it an uplifting thinker, or is it a despair?

LOURENCO (through translator): The Thinker, if one was thinking in order to try and find solutions for the problems of family, society, country. So

this is it, The Thinker of Angola.

My joke, I say, well, some of our problems have not yet been sorted out because we still thinking. We overthink. But it's just a joke.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

QUEST: Always thinking, always thinking. And that, of course, is the president.

We'll have a Profitable Moment from Angola after the break. QUEST MEANS BUSINESS with diamonds. Diamonds are forever, forever.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

QUEST: Tonight's Profitable Moment from the Intercon in Luanda, in Angola. I think the president will probably leave office at the end of his second

term, he pretty much said so when -- in our interview tonight. Ttwo terms, they could have changed the Constitution. They changed in 2021, they didn't

add that term in. Therefore, he seems to put it this way, if he wiggles out of it, I'd love to see how they managed to do it.

[17:00:08]

In fact, I will bet these diamonds on it. Except I don't own the diamonds that I'm about to bet, but they are extraordinary, and I suspect they've

counted every single one of them, and they know how many are there.

And as they say, that's QUEST MEANS BUSINESS for this Friday night. I'm Richard Quest in Angola.

Whatever you're up to in the hours ahead, I hope it's profitable. I'll see you next week.

END