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Quest Means Business
Trump Hopes To Reach Phase 2 Of Gaza Deal Very Quickly; Trump: Putin Phone Call was Positive But Issues Remain; Global Stocks On Track To Outperform S&P 500 This Year; Global Stocks Climb In 2025 Amid Trade War, A.I. Bubble Fears; Artificial Intelligence Optimism Boosts United States Markets In 2025 Amid Bubble Fears; Mindstone CEO: Europe Will Find Competitive A.I. Advantage. Aired 4-5p ET
Aired December 29, 2025 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[16:00:00]
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: That was really where you mentioned that today, we started with Soleimani, a bad guy
doing bad things, hurting a lot of people, killing American soldiers and other soldiers, but it started right there. It would probably be the
starting point, and then from that point forward, but you would -- you have a wartime Prime Minister at the highest level. There could be other wartime
prime ministers, but they'd lose.
He won, and I think the people of Israel appreciate it. I think a lot of the people in the world appreciate it, actually and because of that
victory, we were able to get peace in the Middle East.
If you had a different kind of a personality, if you had a weak person or a stupid person, and there are plenty of both of them, you would not have had
success and you might not have Israel, and you report for Israel. I know you're very proud of it, and you do a great job. You might not have a job
because there might not be an Israel right now if you had a different Prime Minister.
That's a big statement, but to me, it is a very simple statement to make.
I am looking at Pete Hegseth and he is sort of nodding. If they don't have a strong Prime Minister, Pete, you might not have Israel today. I think he
will go down in the record books. And, you know, I was a big help. I will be honest with you. Big, big help.
Somebody said in the room, if you don't have Trump, you needed a proper combination of everything. And if you didn't have that combination, which
they had, you would not have an existing Israel right now and the people of Israel know it. That's why they like me, and it is why they really -- they
actually like him. He has got a little bit of a love hate more than I do over there.
But you know what? Even the haters have a lot of respect for him. There is a lot of jealousy about him, a lot of jealousy. Jealousy is a bad word. But
I believe you would not have Israel right now. So it is a big deal.
Yes, please.
REPORTER: Mr. President, a recent poll showed that as many as half of Gazans would be willing to leave the Gaza Strip if afforded the opportunity
to do so. Back in February, you said that all Gazans should be resettled --
TRUMP: I heard that number today. Half of Gaza would leave. I've always said it. I said, if you were given the opportunity to live in a better
climate, they would move. They're there because they sort of have to be.
I think it would be -- I think it would be a great opportunity. But let's see if that opportunity presents itself, but we are helping the people of
Gaza a lot, so is Israel, by the way. So we will see what happens.
But I saw that there was a poll. It was actually more than half the people would leave if they were given the opportunity. And I've been saying that
for a long time. To me, it was common sense. So it is interesting.
REPORTER: Why wouldn't countries accept them?
TRUMP: Look, let's not talk about it because we don't want the controversy. Right now, we are helping Gaza. But if they were given the opportunity, I
think even higher than that.
The person -- the group that did the poll is usually, I call them negative pollsters. You have a lot of them. And yet this poll was, I think, very
accurate. Other than it would be more than half the people, if given the opportunity, but they haven't been given that opportunity. So we will see
what happens.
REPORTER: Mr. President, have you reached a point of understanding regarding Syria?
TRUMP: We do have an understanding regarding Syria. Now with Syria, you know, your new President. I respect him. He is a very strong guy and that's
what you need in Syria. You can't put a choir boy, you can't put a -- you know, somebody that's a perfect person. Everything is nice. No problems in
life.
You have the opposite there. He is a strong guy. We get along with him great. I can't ask for any more. He has been with us all the way. We had
that mishap with ISIS and he was with us all the way. He was fighting us -- you know, he was fighting them.
So, I hope Israel -- I am sure that Israel and him will get along. I will try and make it so that they do get along. I think they will.
Bibi, do you have anything to say about that?
BENJAMIN NETANYAHU, ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER: Yes. Well, our interest is to have a peaceful border with Syria. Our interest is to have -- and we openly
say it, we want to make sure that the border area right next to our border is safe. We don't have terrorists. We don't have attacks, and we also want
to secure our Druze friends.
And by the way, I think not only the Druze, but other minorities, especially the Christians should be protected as well in Syria --
TRUMP: That's right.
NETANYAHU: -- and throughout the Middle East and in Nigeria. And your efforts, we back completely because Christian communities are beleaguered
around the world and especially in the Middle East, but in parts of Africa, too, and we stand for the same thing.
TRUMP: And don't forget, it was President Erdogan that helped very much get rid of a very bad ruler of Syria -- that was President Erdogan and he never
wanted the credit for it, but he really gets a lot of credit. Bibi agrees with that. I agree with it.
[16:05:07]
I mean, I know it, and President Erdogan should get a lot of credit for what he did. He got rid of some very bad people. And, you know, they've
been wanting to do that for a thousand years with different names, but for a thousand years in Syria, President Erdogan did it, and we give him a lot
of credit. I give him a lot of credit. But I think, it is going to work out well between Syria and Israel.
REPORTER: Mr. President, about Lebanon.
TRUMP: Yes. Go ahead, please.
REPORTER: The Lebanese government, so what we saw is not meeting the terms of the ceasefire agreement, has failed to disarm Hezbollah actually, in
your view, should Israel strike the terrorist organization again?
TRUMP: Well, we are going to see about that. We will see about it.
The Lebanese government is a little bit of a disadvantage if you think of it with Hezbollah, but Hezbollah has been behaving badly. So we will see
what happens.
REPORTER: Mr. President, how close are we to another operation of Israel in Iran? You said before the meeting with Netanyahu that you are in support of
Israel if the ballistic missile project will take on and also the nuclear weapon, but after the meeting, after what you know from the intelligence,
how close are we to another war with Iran?
TRUMP: Well, I don't want to say that, but Iran may be behaving badly. It hasn't been confirmed, but if it is confirmed, look, they know the
consequences. You know, consequences will be very powerful. Maybe more powerful than the last time. Yes.
And Iran should have made a deal the last time. I gave them the option. I said, you can make a deal, do it. I told them, do it. And they didn't
believe me. Now, they believe me.
REPORTER: Do you have evidence that Iran is behaving badly? And what do you mean by that?
TRUMP: This is just what we hear. But usually, where there is smoke, there is fire. Have you heard the expression?
REPORTER: What do you do? You mean related to the nuclear capability?
TRUMP: I am hearing that they are -- not nuclear yet, but maybe nuclear, too. The sites were obliterated, but they're looking at other sites, that's
what I've heard. They're looking.
So it will take a long time. They are not going to go back to where they were, but they have other places they can go, and if they are doing that,
they are making a big mistake.
Yes, please. There is no reason for them to do it.
REPORTER: Mr. President, is the United States currently open to engaging in bilateral discussions with Tehran? We are hearing reports from numerous
countries that there may be some discussions. Is that something you would support or something that --
TRUMP: Yes, I would.
REPORTER: You would support that right now?
TRUMP: Sure. I would, yes.
REPORTER: Thank you, sir.
TRUMP: I have been, by the way, before the war, I would support that. I said to him, Bibi, I said, lets negotiate and they didn't believe what was
going to happen would happen.
Yes, ma'am.
REPORTER: With China, so China has been doing naval exercises basically to test encircling Taiwan. Can you explain to us what your knowledge is of
that? What do you think about that? Have you had any discussions with China about that?
TRUMP: Well, I have a great relationship with President Xi and he hasn't told me anything about it. I certainly have seen it, but he hasn't told me
anything about it. And, I don't believe he is going to be doing it.
REPORTER: Is it worrying you?
TRUMP: No. Nothing worries me. Nothing.
REPORTER: But you said, where there is smoke, there is fire. Right?
TRUMP: I know.
REPORTER: So if you're encircling -- if you're doing naval exercises and air exercises.
TRUMP: No, they have been naval exercises for 20 years in that area. Now people take it a little bit differently, but in fact, larger than they are
doing right now. So we will see. But they've been that for 20 to 25 years.
Yes.
REPORTER: Mr. President, if you don't see Hamas disarm in that short amount of time you're giving them, can you tell us what the next steps would be?
TRUMP: It would be horrible for them. Horrible. It is going to be really, really bad for them. And I don't want that to happen. But they made an
agreement that they were going to disarm. And you couldn't blame Israel.
By the way, we have other countries that will come in and do it. They said, let us do it for you if they don't. Countries that were with them, wanted a
deal to be made, agreed that they would disarm. And now if they say they're going to disarm, that's fine. If they say they're not going to disarm,
those same countries will go and wipe them out. They don't even need Israel.
You know, we have many countries, 59 countries that are in agreement. This is a real peace in the Middle East. And Hamas is a small part of it, but it
is still a part of it. But we have 59 countries that signed on, big countries, countries that are outside of the Middle East as you know, the
Middle East, they want to go in and wipe out Hamas.
They don't want Israel, they don't need Israel. They want to do it because it is the right thing to do, because they were for the deal based on the
fact that Hamas pledged, they swore that they were going to disarm. Now they are not going to disarm. Those same countries will wipe out Hamas.
Yes.
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REPORTER: President Trump, do you think that the P.A. should be involved in the day after in Gaza Strip, even in the near future? And the same question
to Prime Minister Netanyahu, do you see a real opportunity that the P.A. will be in Gaza?
TRUMP: Go ahead, Bibi.
NETANYAHU: I think President Trump put clearly the conditions of reform that he wants to see in the P.A., for them to be involved. And I think he
put it very clearly what he wants to see, the kind of real reforms, not just perfunctory reforms, but real reforms, stop pay to slay, change the
curriculum in your textbooks, open up you know, a different society and a different future.
If they do it --
REPORTER: (INAUDIBLE)
NETANYAHU: Well, you know, let them -- you know, I think it was clear. We put --
TRUMP: We put --
NETANYAHU: We put guidelines that were, by the way, in the Trump plan of 2020 and they were put then in the 20 points and it is up to them.
TRUMP: Remember this. If we didn't do what we did to Iran, just to make the subject just slightly different, you wouldn't have peace in the Middle
East. You wouldn't have a deal signed in the Middle East. You wouldn't have a deal because other Arab nations, which are great, great, great people, I
know them very well. I know them, they are a great people. They wouldn't be able to have agree to peace in the Middle East, because you would have had
a dark cloud hanging over everything. It wouldn't -- it wouldn't have been possible.
So Iran has been greatly reduced in power, prestige. I don't want to use the word humiliation because, you know, they are trying to build up again,
but we can't let them build up because if they build up, there can't be peace in the Middle East.
It was a mistake, you know, when they wiped out Iraq -- Iraq and Iran were about the same power and they fought each other with different names for a
thousand years, and then our country came out and blew up one of those two countries, namely Iraq, and all of a sudden Iran had the whole Middle East
all to itself. But that's not true anymore. That's not true anymore.
REPORTER: Can you tell us something about your plan to expand the Abraham Accords? If you can tell us something about your plan to expand Abraham
Accords.
TRUMP: Well, the Abraham Accords are a great a great achievement of Jared and everybody. I mean, it was one of the great achievements. They will be
expanded. Countries are already talking about expanding it, and they will be expanded fairly quickly.
Yes, please.
REPORTER: Is it still on the table? The normalization --
TRUMP: Saudi Arabia is great. We have a great leader and a friend of mine and a friend of a lot of people, also an enemy of some people, but those
people aren't doing so well.
Saudi Arabia has been very good as far as I am concerned. They've done everything that we can ask for.
REPORTER: The normalization of Israel is on the table?
TRUMP: They have been getting along great with Israel. They will. And at some point they'll sign the Abraham Accords.
REPORTER: Mr. President, so one of the big domestic tasks ahead of you is to pick a new chairman for the Fed.
TRUMP: Yes.
REPORTER: You've said that you have one favorite --
TRUMP: I do.
REPORTER: But you're also doing interviews, so --
TRUMP: I didn't change. I will announce him at the right time. There is plenty of time.
REPORTER: Are you -- is there any --
TRUMP: But in the meantime, we are doing numbers that nobody has ever seen. We have $18 trillion coming in. We had a 4.3 percent GDP. They thought it
was going to be two percent and that's despite the Democrat shutdown. Had the shutdown not occurred, we would have had an extra point and a quarter.
Think of that.
We are doing -- and also, despite the fact that we have a fool at the Federal Reserve, I mean, Biden reappointed him, it is too bad. You would
have thought he wouldn't have done that, but he is an absolute fool who is building a new Federal Reserve or he is doing a renovation of a building.
Maybe he is up to $4.1 billion to do a renovation of a few very small buildings. It is the highest price in the history of construction.
He is spending more money than any building has ever spent per square foot on the renovation of -- as an example, I am doing a magnificent, big,
beautiful ballroom that the country has wanted, The White House has wanted for 150 years. It is a massive job, and it is a tiny fraction of that
number and we are under budget and ahead of schedule.
Now, it is bigger than I told you. It is -- you know, after realizing we are going to do the Inauguration in that building, it has got all
bulletproof glass. It has got all drone -- they call it drone free roof, so drones won't touch it. It is a big -- it is a big, beautiful, safe
building.
[16:15:04]
But it is -- you know, it is a big project, for a tiny fraction of that. We are under budget and ahead of schedule and they wanted it for 150 years.
Think of it, the Federal Reserve building, two buildings there, they don't know what they are doing. They are way over budget. I mean, almost -- this
was built during the Biden administration, and I drove by it the other day, and it is headed by the head of the Federal Reserve.
Too late, you know, Too Late Powell. Too late because he is always too late with interest rates, except before the election, he was too early because
that would have helped. That was supposed to help get her elected. It had no impact. We won all seven swing states.
But no, no, we are thinking about bringing a suit against Powell for incompetence because think of it. These are two -- these aren't outstanding
buildings. These are small buildings. He is at $4 billion more. It is going to end up costing more than $4 billion. $4 billion!
It is the highest price of construction. Again, Democrats, highest price of construction per square foot in the history of the world. There has never
been -- gorgeous monuments are built for a much smaller price. So we are thinking about bringing a gross incompetence -- what's called gross
incompetence lawsuit.
It is gross incompetence against Powell and it was his baby. And, the guy is just a very incompetent man. But we are going to probably bring a
lawsuit against him.
Thank you all very much, I appreciate it.
Bibi, congratulations.
REPORTER: When will you make an announcement then on Powell's replacement.
TRUMP: January sometime.
REPORTER: And will you ask Jay Powell to resign from the Board entirely?
TRUMP: Well, he should resign. That would be a favor to the nation. But heh as come close. I mean, we are getting pretty close. I would fire him. I
would love to fire him, but we are so close. You know, maybe -- but maybe I still might.
REPORTER: You said F-35 --
TRUMP: Say it?
REPORTER: Are you going to approve a sailing of F-35 to Turkey?
TRUMP: We are thinking about it very seriously.
REPORTER: And what prevented --
TRUMP: They will never use it. Thank you. I promise they will not be using that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you, press. Thank you, press. Thank you, everybody.
PAULA NEWTON, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST: I am Paula Newton in New York, and you have been watching a press conference from Mar-a-Lago, the President's
residence there in Florida, along with Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.
It really was a far ranging discussion yet again. I do want to highlight just that the President was saying there about the Federal Reserve Chair,
calling him an absolute fool and really pinpointing the cost of that Federal Reserve building, something that the President has harped on
before, saying it was a $4.1 billion project. In fact, according to CNN, it is a $2.5 billion project that they are in the seventh year of a nine-year
build.
The President repeated that he would love to fire Jerome Powell, but he is clearly nearly at the end of his tenure, which will happen midway through
2026.
We do want to get to the issues in the Middle East there and perhaps most significant, the president there, along with the Prime Minister saying
that, in his words, Hamas needs to disarm very soon or there will be hell to pay. He -- the president, President Trump saying it will be horrible for
them. Not really disclosing exactly what he would do, but indicating that Hamas has a very short time to live up to its obligations according to the
peace plan.
And he claims that, "they could wipe them out," referring to Hamas saying that there are other countries other than Israel willing to do that. They
also did discuss many issues in the Middle East, not just the future of Gaza, but also talked about Syria, Lebanon and crucially, Iran.
Our Matthew Chance has been listening in with us, and he joins us now from Jerusalem. I mean, Matthew, you'd have to say, right, that this issue of
disarming Hamas; Hamas, again, in our reporting has said just recently, really in the last few hours, again, that they have no intention of
disarming that that really is the crux of the issue here if any ceasefire is to move to the next stage.
MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN CHIEF GLOBAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Yes, I certainly think it is an important part of it, but remember, in that second phase of
Trump's peace plan for Gaza, there are difficult concessions that would have to be made by both sides. And yes, on the side of Hamas giving up
their weapons, essentially surrendering their power was, you know, always going to be a very difficult step that they were going to be reluctant to
take. And indeed, that's where we seem to be right now.
And President Trump standing next to Benjamin Netanyahu, saying that there will be consequences if they don't do that, they will have a short time to
disarm. But if they don't, there will be consequences.
[16:20:00]
But let's not forget that, you know, there were difficult concessions that would have had to be made in this second phase by Israel as well, things
like withdrawing from territory in Gaza, like handing over control of the Gaza Strip to an international stabilization force which has not yet been
put together, but about which there is a great deal of skepticism in, you know, with Benjamin Netanyahu and the right-wing coalition, which he which
he oversees.
And so, it is like both Hamas and the Israeli government of Netanyahu were in a sort of -- had this shared interest in the second stage of the peace
process not advancing because they both would have had to make an incredibly difficult concessions that neither side actually wanted to make.
And so, yes, it is not all on Hamas. Israel has been dragging its feet as well, despite what we heard in that shoulder to shoulder press conference.
NEWTON: Yes, and before I let you go, just quickly, there was significant news on Iran as well. Again, the President threatening Iran if it continues
to do -- the President wouldn't disclose exactly what kind of intelligence they have about what Iran is up to.
CHANCE: Yes, he actually seemed from my -- from what I heard, he seemed a little unsure about what Iran was up to, whether it was up to something or
not. He said, it wasn't confirmed, but what we do know is that Benjamin Netanyahu has traveled to Florida to meet with President Trump, and one of
the main things that Netanyahu wanted to talk about was the emerging, reemerging threat of Iran, which he says has been rebuilding its ballistic
missile program, which he insists has been rebuilding its nuclear program to make sure President Trump was on side with him in case or, you know, for
the possibility of more military action against that country, because that, for Benjamin Netanyahu is one of the great bonuses of having such a close
relationship with President Trump that his archenemy in Iran can be struck with American backing.
NEWTON: And we will wait to see what comes of that.
Matthew Chance, grateful to you for listening in with us. Appreciate it.
Now Russia claims Ukraine tried to strike one of President Vladimir Putin's residences with a drone. As a result, Moscow says it will revise its
position in peace talks. We are not sure what that means, Ukraine denies the allegation. President Zelenskyy called it a complete fabrication.
He accuses the Kremlin of trying to undermine his talks with President Trump this weekend. Trump said Putin told him about the alleged attack
during their phone call on Monday.
Fred Pleitgen is following developments for us from Berlin. I mean, how do you gauge the call with Putin in terms of, you know, how it went? But it
just seemed to me that really those comments on however this went really took a back seat to this drone strike, especially the fact that President
Trump seemed to be parroting the Kremlin line on this.
FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, certainly what President Trump said at that press availability there with the Israeli
Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, meshes to a great extent with what the Russians said after the call as well. Yuri Ushakov, senior Kremlin aide, he
came out after the call a couple of hours ago, and he essentially said the same things that Vladimir Putin had informed President Trump about this
alleged drone strike, that President Trump was shocked.
Also speaking about President Trump did there, saying that he stopped the delivery of tomahawks to the Ukrainians. That's also something that the
Russians said in their readout or what Yuri Ushakov said as well. So certainly to a large extent, the Kremlin and The White House, they are
saying the same thing.
Now, President Trump did say that it is not confirmed that the strike actually took place. And you've already noted that the Ukrainians are
unequivocally denying that any of this took place, that they attacked this residence of Vladimir Putin.
The Russians, for their part, are though, are vowing revenge and are saying that they are considering revising, as they put it, their stance on the
negotiations. But there was a second part of what the Russians said, which I think is also very interesting, is on the one hand, they said they were
rethinking how they're going to deal with the Ukrainians, but they want to keep the diplomatic process with the United States going.
So that's a line that kind of meshes with some of the things that we've been hearing from the Russians in the past, where they've been very
skeptical of the Ukrainians, very negative towards Ukrainians as far as solving the conflict where Ukraine is concerned.
But at the same time, of course, very keen on a complete reset of relations between Russia and Iran, noting that that's very important for the
Russians, and that certainly seems to be a line that they continue to follow now, after this alleged attack and after informing President Trump
about it -- Paula.
NEWTON: Yes, and clearly Russia getting what it wants, right, because they wanted a double track on these negotiations. One would be economic and the
other would be in relation to any kind of peace deal.
[16:25:04]
PLEITGEN: Yes, absolutely. I think that's a very important point. I think that on the one hand, of course, the negotiations towards an end to the
conflict in Ukraine are also very important for the Russians, of course, also for the Ukrainians as well.
But that economic dividend, the possible economic dividend also something that of course is a huge carrot that has being dangled out there.
And if you look at some of the things that are on the table that apparently Trump administration has offered sanctions relief, possible deals in the
arctic rare minerals, rare earth deals, oil and gas deals, all of these things, of course, could be a huge deal for the Russians.
But at the same time, the Kremlin has always made clear that for them, the result that they want to achieve what they call the goals of their special
military operation still takes precedence above anything else -- Paula.
NEWTON: Fred Pleitgen, thank you to you, live for us from Berlin.
And we will have much more of QUEST MEANS BUSINESS after the break. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
NEWTON: Wall Street closed lower to begin the last week of the year. The Dow Jones slipped 249 points, the NASDAQ off about half a percent, the S&P
500 shed about 0.3 percent on what was pretty low volume. Even so, it has been an impressive year for U.S. stocks. We all have to keep that in mind.
The S&P 500 is up more than 17 percent to date.
And global investors have even more reason to celebrate. Korea's KOSPI has rallied 75 percent this year. China's Hang Seng and Japan's Nikkei each
gained about 30 percent. Germanys DAX Index meantime, and the FTSE 100 also outperformed U.S. stocks, that's despite the shock from President Trump's
trade war and a potential A.I. bubble.
William Lee is the chief economist and managing director at Global Economic Advisors, and he joins us now. Good to see you, because we really want to
look ahead here, right?
There is shocking to me, almost unanimity among analysts that the U.S. stock market will and can post solid gains in 2026. I am wondering if you
feel the same way? And do you believe international markets will again be able to pull this off?
WILLIAM LEE, CHIEF ECONOMIST AND MANAGING DIRECTOR, GLOBAL ECONOMIC ADVISORS: Well, it is very scary to think that the stock market is at all-
time highs and the degree of consensus that things are doing pretty well is pretty remarkable.
The U.S. right now is in the middle of a productivity-led recovery, and that's really fantastic because the growth that is accompanied by high
productivity means that we can have high rates of GDP growth, people can be paid higher wages and inflation becomes less of a problem because companies
don't have to raise prices in order to make their profit margins.
So it is a confluence of all the great things that every economist wants to have for an economy to perform well.
The downside, of course, is that when workers are more productive, companies don't need to hire as many workers as they did in the past to get
the same amount of output, so what we see are some weaknesses in employment, but I think the overall attitude of the stock market, the
overall consensus among economists is, a productivity led recovery is what we have now is all the best you can have going forward.
[16:30:35]
NEWTON: And when we -- and when we talk about productivity-led, though, that, that is A.I. And you know, the question all through 2025 was, if we
are in an A.I. bubble, what do you think now going into 2026?
LEE: Well, Paul, let me take issue with that in just -- for just a bit, because the A.I. revolution is just getting started. People are just
starting to put in the infrastructure for A.I. You and I probably are great users of ChatGPT and all the great A.I. models there, and we can see what
stuff it's going to do for us in terms of making us more productive shoppers, more productive workers.
But that really hasn't come in. The productivity we have seen over the last year, year and a half, is all of the technology investments that took place
after COVID and all the changes in management that took place after COVID. So, we're really riding the crest of past achievements in investments that
were already put in place.
Now, looking forward, add on top of that, what A.I. can do, and I think that's why so many of us are so optimistic about growth prospects going
forward. And I think the A.I. question that the stock market is having right now is, boy, what ton -- we are putting in a ton of money into these
infrastructure, data centers, and all of these new chips that are being developed by Nvidia. Is it really worth it? Are the profit margins going to
really show the kind of hopeful increases that we are projecting in stock prices? And that's why a lot of the investors in stock markets are starting
to become a little bit more sketchy about gee, should I continue to invest in Nvidia, or is there more to this about over investment in
infrastructure? And I think that's where a lot of the uncertainty is right now in the marketplace.
But overall, things are doing quite well.
(CROSSTALK)
NEWTON: It is -- it is for sure -- yes.
It is, for sure, a very complicated picture, especially when you realize that a lot of the gains from A.I. have already been locked into some of
those stock prices as they sit right now, close to record highs.
You know, I want to get back to the data here, and there is a lot of noise. You outline some of the data there, but just to recap, GDP more than OK,
strong consumer spending. But a challenging labor market and inflation that you know is still on the high side.
Can you make sense of some of these contradictions for us?
LEE: Yes, I think, everyone out there is saying, you know, inflation may be slowing down, but the cost of living is just incredibly high. How am I
going to be able to make ends meet?
You know, when, when you think about 60 to 70 percent of the population is really working hand to mouth, paycheck to paycheck, so, all of this
optimism that we see behind consumption is, in part, the strong consumption is being done by the owners of stock market wealth, and that's the top 10,
maybe 20 percent of the population that own 90 percent of the stock market wealth out there.
So, there's a huge stratification in the amount of benefits that are going to the population. And I think that's one of the vulnerabilities going
forward.
You know, as a forecaster, I have to point to political risk as one of the big vulnerabilities out there. Because what got Trump elected the first
time is people are saying, hey, fair has been -- the trade has been unfair to us, because we are not benefiting. It's the rest of the world that's
benefiting from trade.
Now, people are going to say, A.I. revolution, I'm not benefiting from it. I'm getting laid off from it. And the workers that are getting the A.I.
benefits are those rich guys who are able to have their fancy computers do a lot of the work for them.
NEWTON: right.
LEE: Well, that story, in some ways, is a caricature, but I just ran into an electrician that told me that he is scheduling all of his appointments
using A.I.
So, you see that plumbers, electricians, and all of the people that we think of as regular working people are already starting to benefit from
A.I.
(CROSSTALK)
NEWTON: Right, from A.I.
LEE: So, I think the caricature and the fears that are out there are not quite, you know, being lived up to.
NEWTON: Which will be a relief for many. William Lee, we'll leave it there. Thanks so much. Appreciate it.
Now, coming up, OK, we just heard about whether or not there is an A.I. bubble. We all talk to a CEO of a company that's helping others make the
most of A.I.'s promise.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:37:27]
NEWTON: Now, as we were just talking about, there is this question of whether or not we are in an A.I. bubble, and many worry about all those
circular deals. An illustrated version here by Morgan Stanley, others argue the high valuations are actually justified. They expect that A.I. will
boost productivity gains and fuel economic growth.
That's not happening, though, quite yet. Researchers at MIT said this year that 95 percent of companies trying A.I. have yet to see a return on their
investments.
The startup up, Mindstone is working with other companies to change all that. Joshua Wohle is here with us. He is the co-founder and CEO.
Good to see you here. And you are trying to crack the code of A.I. for 2026, answering the question, will A.I. live up to the cost for many
companies this year? I'm wondering what you are learning.
JOSHUA WOHLE, CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER, MINDSTONE: Yes. So, what we are seeing is that, that 95 percent stat that you are quoting is mostly due to
training. There is been a lot of money that has gone into the technology and the infrastructure. We just heard about it. But what most companies are
forgetting is that the technology doesn't just adopt itself.
And so, what is missing is a significant investment in training. And when that happens, when people know how to use the technology, the return is
actually undervalued, so far, as we are seeing.
NEWTON: Undervalued. That is so interesting.
And so, you have some key predictions for 2026 for A.I. What are they?
WOHLE: So, one of the biggest ones is actually one that came off of last year. So last year, I thought everything that was happening in software
engineering was going much faster than what people were thinking. And so, this year was the year where coding as a profession started to very clearly
disappear.
What I think is going to happen next year is the same thing, but for all other types of knowledge work, whether that's legal or marketing or sales
or learning and development. And so, the tasks that underpin those individual jobs end up getting executed by the A.I.
And as people, we move from doing those individual tasks to orchestrating them.
NEWTON: In terms of orchestrating them, though, there is a huge debate as to whether or not we -- this will lead to a job's crisis. And you know,
both sides of the debate here, where do you come in on that?
WOHLE: So, I think both can be true. I do think it's going to take a while for markets and the economy to adjust in different ways, as we are able to
automate, on the one hand, we augment on the other.
[16:40:01]
I think, however, this is something that we have some agency over. The more we, as society lean into augmentation, the less we suffer the consequences
of the automation piece. And this is why it's so important that there is more investment on the augmentation piece, basically helping people do
better work, rather than solely focusing on automating the work that they already do.
Because if the work gets better, everyone gets the benefit, and everyone gets to keep their job. If the work gets automated, they lose them. And so,
I do think it's going to be a little bit rocky, but I actually think we have agency over it.
NEWTON: And what you are talking about actually is a very nuanced argument, and this kind of dovetails into something I'm really intrigued about, your
prediction is that Europe will actually have a competitive advantage into 2026. How so?
WOHLE: So, I mean, Europe has really been sitting on the sidelines for quite a while. Right? There is not really been the same investment in
infrastructure. But what Europe has done, the E.U. A.I. Act, actually mandates training across the continent. So, if you are a company that has
to roll out or that rolls out the technology you now, not by law, have to train everyone in the company to understand how to use it.
And because most of the return on the technology comes from training the people, there is actually really good chance that this is Europe's moment
to wake up and probably be part of the race and actually get the fruit of the labor.
NEWTON: And does that mean, though, that the United States is inherently at a disadvantage? I don't have to remind you, in terms of labor laws as well.
I mean, it is much easier to fire people in the United States, and to make that, you know, slash jobs first and think later.
WOHLE: Correct. I would say, because most of the advantage from the technology actually comes from augmentation rather than automation. And
because in Europe, people have to focus more on augmentation than on automation, because it is actually harder to change the workforce that
quickly. Could very well be that Europe in this particular situation has an advantage.
As much as the U.S. is the one -- are the ones that are investing most in the technology itself.
NEWTON: Wow, fascinating, Joshua. Really helpful, and we'll try and check in with you in 2026 just to see how things are going. Thanks so much.
Appreciate it.
WOHLE: Thank you.
NEWTON: And that is QUEST MEANS BUSINESS. I'm Paula Newton. I'm Paula Newton. Up next, "QUEST, WORLD OF WONDER".
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:45:42]
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
RICHARD QUEST, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR (voice over): It's time to embrace new adventures.
QUEST: It's nothing got much better than this, doesn't it?
QUEST (voice over): Seize the moment in this "WORLD OF WONDER".
QUEST: Oh, this is great. Isn't this exciting? Oh, now, we are talking.
Oh, so many shops.
QUEST (voice over): The market at the center of Marrakech, Jemaa el-Fnaa. This is the heart of the city.
QUEST: Lots of little lamps and nick-nackeries, nick-nackeries, nick-nack in a rue.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You have a nice hat. where did you get it?
QUEST: London.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In Primark, maybe.
QUEST: There has to be a certain fortitude owl. If you are going to come into this square.
QUEST (voice over): I'm here with awesome owl. Friend, colleague, and chronicler of our adventures here in Morocco.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What will Richard have me doing?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mystery.
QUEST: How much misery is he get?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That makes me feel incredibly uncomfortable.
QUEST: How much misery is he going to give me?
QUEST (voice over): We are going to be assaulted, metaphorically, by noise, people, concepts, sounds, visions, games.\
Al and I are no strangers to markets. But this is something else.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So. I've come all the way to Marrakech to see snake charmers. And you've taken me fishing for fanta.
QUEST (voice over): How hard can it be?
QUEST: Oh, this is harder than it looks, Al. Its swinging. Look. What do I actually have to do?
QUEST (voice over): I can assure you, not this.
QUEST: Ask him, can he do it?
QUEST (voice over): The goal seems to be to hook the bottle with the donut on the end of the line.
QUEST: Oh, well done, sir.
QUEST (voice over): Marrakech is not Morocco's capital. That's Rabat. Nor is it the commercial center. Of course, that's Casablanca. Instead, it has
captured traveler's imaginations.
Morocco is a place of contradictions. from the chaos of the market, it is but a few hours' drive to the quiet wilderness and beauty of the desert,
where its hoped. I will relax.
QUEST: How are you, sir?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm fine, thank you.
QUEST: It's all rather good.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Everything is good.
QUEST (voice over): This is where I've come to experience uninterrupted peace and calm.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You need to teach Richard how to relax.
MOHAMED MONOU: He is going to be relaxed. The energy here is very, very positive.
Have you sleep in a tent before, sir?
QUEST: Yes.
QUEST (voice over): Even off season, with bitterly cold nights, these tents offer an oasis of tranquility for the modern traveler.
MANOU: Here, you have like, chargers.
QUEST: Oh, no.
MANOU: So, you don't need the adapters? So --
QUEST: No, no. This is a -- you're wanting me to relax and you are giving me USB connections.
QUEST (voice over): No doubt, there's only so much peace and quiet I can take before I must go. a wandering.
QUEST: So, I have a question for you.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Go on then.
QUEST: You told me to walk over to the -- what did you say?
AL: Cacti.
QUEST: Is it cacti?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Or cactuses?
QUEST: Or is it just cactus? It's definitely not cactuses.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Look how many cactus there are, Richard. Look at those cacti. I think its cacti. Be careful.
QUEST: Yes. I'm just realizing, this is --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, that's threatening in more ways than one.
QUEST: Particularly in its current location. I mean, look at the size of these spikes.
What is the plural of cactus?
A prickly question.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh. oh, the humor is in there, isn't it.
QUEST: Oh, that's humor in A.I. A prickly question. Both cacti and cactuses, both style are correct.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Don't let me walk backwards into one. That's all my only request.
[16:50:02]
QUEST: Oh, I would pay good money for that.
QUEST (voice over): By now, I don't care what the bloody thing's called. It's sunset and time to appreciate real talent.
Wafari (PH) is only 17 years old. He's been swirling flames since he was seven. Extraordinary. But would my night under the stars prove to be
peaceful?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How are you feeling?
QUEST: I had a really good night's sleep, even though it was blisteringly cold last night. I keep -- I know, I keep saying that when the sun goes
down, it gets unbelievably chilly very quickly, but it does. I don't normally sleep long. Last night, I just collapsed and slept and slept and
slept.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
QUEST (voice over): Located a couple of hours drive from Marrakech is the port town of Essaouira. A name that is difficult to spell and tricky to
say.
QUEST: Look at all (INAUDIBLE). Al, we'll have fun here.
It makes it all the more worthwhile to visit.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Easy, yes.
QUEST (voice over): My companion on the Gastonettes is Andre Azoulay, an advisor to Morocco's King Mohammed VI. Andre Azoulay is described as
probably the most powerful Jew in the Arab world.
QUEST: Limitless tchotchkes. Give you no idea what a tchotchkes?
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I have no idea what you are talking about.
QUEST: How would you describe a tchotchke? A tchotchke is a -- yes, it's a -- it's a sort of trinket that's have got no purpose whatsoever other than
to clutter up the room.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Bit like you.
QUEST: What?
QUEST (voice over): Tchotchkes is, of course, a Yiddish word. How appropriate, because here there are great links between the Jewish and
Muslim faiths. The two religions celebrate their closeness, a point of pride for Andre.
He has brought me to buy at Tahirah, which is also known as the House of Memory.
ANDRE AZOULAY, ADVISOR TO HIS MAJESTY KING MOHAMMED VI: Keeping a leg, our memory, our legacy.
QUEST (voice over): The legacy of Jewish history in this Moroccan city.
AZOULAY: I'm Jewish, private identity. I am Berber Amaziah (PH), I am Arab, I'm African, I'm Mediterranean. I feel so blessed and gifted, again, to
have this, you know, rendezvous with all the civilization means a lot for me.
QUEST: The significance, I think, for me as a Jew, is not that it's the oldest synagogue. I've been, obviously, much older, but it's what it
symbolizes and represents the reconstruction here in Morocco, a community where Jews and other religions to more than coexist. They celebrate each
other, and this has been beautifully, lovingly restored by and recognized by the king.
So, it's really quite a very meaningful to be here and see it. Really is.
[16:55:10]
This is very rare.
AZOULAY: It's unique.
QUEST: It is, well, unique. To actually have the Quran and --
(CROSSTALK)
AZOULAY: And the Bible.
QUEST: The Old Testament.
AZOULAY: Yes.
QUEST: Together.
To a visitor of a different religion, any religion, what would you want them to understand and take away from a visit here? What would be their
experience?
AZOULAY: It's a different, different narrative. It's a different reality. But it exists. And diversity is something, which is the engine of the
social modernity of my country.
QUEST (voice over): My religious and spiritual side, having been satisfied. It is time for Mammon to reassert itself. Eat, drink, and spend. By
Essaouira has so many places to do all. Meryem Bensari is an entrepreneur who can spot a thirsty visitor gasping for her tear demand.
She says her town offers plenty of shopping opportunities.
MERYEM BENSARI, CO-FOUNDER CAFE L'ESPRIT: We are surrounded by very talented people. Very talented. Like craft, artists, everywhere. People
from Essaouira, they are in their DNA, culture, art. They all do things with their hands. The Medina, you really need to get lost in the tiny
streets.
QUEST: We should go and have a look.
BENSARI: Please with pleasure.
QUEST: Where are you going to take me?
QUEST (voice over): Be afraid.
QUEST: These are -- look at these.
QUEST (voice over): Be very afraid.
QUEST: I know exactly what I want to buy here. I'm being let loose in the soup.
Let's have a good look, just two seconds.
You get a couple of dozen of these. Where do we -- we got to get moving. You keep stopping.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So, where is Richard?
BENSARI: Probably in one of the ceramic shop.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's left you.
BENSARI: Trying to -- yes.
Trying to bargain.
QUEST (voice over): She was right. Some espresso cups had caught my eye. There is just one small problem.
QUEST: They just sit on a shelf and eventually annoy everybody. But they are beautiful.
We need to keep moving. Oh, the nice this one.
QUEST (voice over): I'm really enjoying myself. An awesome owl is becoming impatient.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We should blindfold him. It's the only way to get through the -- can you -- can you, Richard, take your scarf and do it, just
wrap it around your eyes, and Tom's going to guide.
QUEST: Who has my hat? Oh, there we go, my hat.
QUEST (voice over): The more I saw, the more I wanted.
(INAUDIBLE) or however you say it, has charmed me with its arts and crafts. Its rocks and ramparts and gentle ways, and certainly those moments to
share with new friends.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
END
