Return to Transcripts main page
Quest Means Business
European Leaders Push Back On U.S. Interest In Greenland; White House Renews Talk Of Taking Control Of Greenland; Reports Of Misunderstanding After Gunfire In Caracas; Trump Says He's In Charge Of Venezuela After Ousting Maduro; Venezuelan Bonds Soar After Maduro's Arrest; Acting President Delcy Rodriguez Claims No External Agent Ruling Venezuela; BlackBerry Software To Power Automated Driving In BMW Cars. Aired 4-5p ET
Aired January 06, 2026 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[16:00:12]
RICHARD QUEST, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST, "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS": Closing bell ringing on Wall Street, and we have a new record. The Dow will close above
49,000 for the first time. Gabelli is clearly excited at the whole prospect once they've brought matters to a close. And go on, sir? Yes, please.
One and a two and a one, two three, four. Look at the triple stack and you'll see we have a record on the S&P 500 as well, not so on the NASDAQ,
but we are showing good gains across all markets and those are the markets and the main events that you and I will talk about over the next hour.
European leaders are rallying around Denmark, as The White House says it is looking at all options to take control of Greenland.
Venezuela's new President says no foreign power is in charge after President Trump said the U.S. will run the country.
And from phones to cybersecurity, Blackberry has had many lives. The chief executive will be live tonight from CES in Las Vegas.
We are live in New York. It is Tuesday, January the 6th. I am Richard Quest and I mean business.
Good evening.
We begin tonight with European leaders pushing back against the United States and the country's renewed interest in taking over Greenland. The
White House says tonight, a short while ago, President Trump considers the Danish territory critical to U.S. National Security and that Greenland
would be better off under its protection. The Danish Prime Minister, Mette Frederiksen, is urging The White House to tone down its rhetoric.
Along with six other European leaders, they issued this statement: "Greenland belongs to its people. It is for Denmark and Greenland and them
only to decide on matters concerning Denmark and Greenland."
The British Prime Minister, Keir Starmer was asked about this during the meeting in Paris of the so-called Coalition of the Willing on Ukraine. Just
remember how difficult it is for all these European political leaders who don't want to piss off President Trump.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KEIR STARMER, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: The relationship between the U.K. and the U.S. is one of our closest relationships, particularly on issues on
defense, security and intelligence, so we work with the U.S. 24/7 on those issues.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
QUEST: Now, Europe was put on notice on Monday by one of the U.S. President's top aides, Stephen Miller, who told CNN that Greenland is there
for the taking. It wouldn't be defended.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STEPHEN MILLER, DEPUTY CHIEF-OF-STAFF FOR POLICY AND HOMELAND SECURITY ADVISER: The real question is by what right does Denmark assert control
over Greenland? What is the basis of their territorial claim? What is their basis of having Greenland as a colony of Denmark?
The United States is the power of NATO. For the United States to secure the Arctic Region, to protect and defend NATO and NATO interests, obviously,
Greenland should be part of the United States. Nobody is going to fight the United States militarily over the future of Greenland.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
QUEST: Stephen Miller talking there.
Melissa Bell is with me.
Melissa, we had intended to talk to you about Ukraine Coalition of the Willing, the security guarantees, but it has all been shoved to one side a
little bit by this. It won't go away.
And despite at that press conference, European leaders, they did their best to avoid having to talk about it.
MELISSA BELL, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: The timing, Richard, was terrible. Just as the French managed to gather around this table, the
Coalition of the Willing today in Paris, the American emissaries, for the first time in person, Jared Kushner and Steve Witkoff and to focus the mind
on the European urgency of getting these security guarantees, binding security guarantees, of course, the context of Greenland, with that very
strong pushback, you heard from the Danish Prime Minister warning that any American annexation of Greenland would spell the death of NATO. That was
the background.
You mentioned the declaration that was made ahead of the meeting. I think the key to having it succeed was keeping Greenland entirely off the table
for the meeting itself. What they agreed upon in the end were security guarantees that will see the United States monitor a contact line. They've
agreed on boots on the ground, British and French.
But the idea of what happens to Greenland and how heavily that weighs entirely set aside.
We did have a chance, Richard, to meet up with Mark Rutte, the Secretary General of NATO just after the meeting. This is what he had to say.
[16:05:06]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARK RUTTE, NATO SECRETARY-GENERAL: Yes, this was a very successful meeting. As you know, Ukraine is in this terrible war with Russia. We are
all trying to end it. President Trump is key here, his leadership.
But we need to make sure that whatever the end situation is, that Russia will never, ever attack again, and what we agree today is a three-layered
approach where you have strong Ukrainian Armed Forces, where you have these European nations, together with Canada and others to work together to make
sure in this Coalition of the Willing that we have the necessary, mechanisms in place to make sure that we can indeed build Ukrainian Armed
Forces, but also to be present in Ukraine.
BELL: Could you tell us more about the role the United States would play? We've been hearing a lot about the backstop and what it would look like.
What does it look like now after this meeting?
RUTTE: Yes. Generally speaking, it means that when it comes to building up the Ukrainian Armed Forces, making sure that if there has to be some
surveillance of a ceasefire and a line of contact, that the U.S. will play a big role, making sure that if the Russians would attack again, it is
clear that then all of us, the Europeans, but also just have to make sure, of course, that first of all, Ukrainian Armed Forces, but if necessary,
also the others will prevent Russia from being successful.
BELL: So we are imagining in terms of these binding security guarantees, European boots on the ground with American backing.
RUTTE: Yes, but also the American families being involved when it comes to surveying a line of contact or a demilitarized zone or a ceasefire,
whatever, will be in the end exactly the makeup of a peace deal.
BELL: Do you agree with the Danish Prime Minister's assessment, though, that were there an attempted annexation of Greenland by the United States,
this would spell the end of NATO?
RUTTE: Well, let me approach this from another angle. We all agree that it is true that the Russians and the Chinese are more and more active in the
area. When you look at Denmark, they are investing heavily in their military and very important to say that the U.S. has a bilateral agreement
with Denmark from 1951. They had a lot of people, a lot of military in Greenland in the past, and the Danes are totally fine if the U.S. would
have a bigger presence than they have now.
So I think this collectively shows that we make the same assessment, and we have to make sure that the arctic stays safe.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
QUEST: Right, now, Melissa, bear with me because I want to -- I am just going to explain and do a bit of show and tell on this and then I will come
back to you.
So if we take a look, stay with me, if we take a look at exactly what is happening here. You have a situation where Denmark -- and hang on a second
-- Denmark and the United States are both members of NATO.
Now, add to that the fact that Greenland, which is here, is part of Denmark, and you can see the difficulty. If, for example, remember Article
V, attack on one is an attack on all. Greenland is part of Denmark. They are both members of NATO.
If the U.S. were to attack, then this famous NATO umbrella of Article V would kick in and you would have, in essence, basically NATO members having
to agree whether or not to attack against the largest member, a de facto NATO would be dead and finished.
Melissa Bell, that is why the significance tonight of the statement that it is only up to the Danish and the people of Denmark and Greenland, what
happens next?
BELL: That's right.
NATO is simply not designed in the wake of World War II, Richard, to imagine a scenario where within its own members, they might be having to
question the idea of Article V and what happens. That's why it is such an existential threat to the Alliance itself, and that's why you heard Mark
Rutte afterwards, I kept pressing him, what happens if the United States annexes? They simply won't go there. And it was put entirely off the table
today in order that they could focus on the question of Ukraine.
But clearly this hangs in the background, especially since after Venezuela, what we've seen is this sort of emboldened White House in the shape of
President Trump, but also we heard there Stephen Miller speaking increasingly aggressively about Greenland.
For now, Europeans very much focused on getting their security guarantees, but clearly this is terrible timing for them, and as long as Washington
continues to press ahead with this idea, very difficult for them to face up to, they simply couldn't do it.
United States, as you say, the strongest member of NATO, what happens if they annex Greenland? For the time being, no one is really willing to go
down that route of considering what happens next.
QUEST: Melissa, I am grateful. Thank you. Whilst we've been talking, we've received a statement. Thank you. Melissa Bell. The White House said that it
is discussing a range of options to acquire Greenland and noting that U.S. military is not off the table, the words of Karoline Leavitt.
[16:10:13]
President Trump has made it well known, she says, that securing Greenland is a National Security priority, vital, et cetera.
The President and his team are discussing a range of options -- forgiving me for looking down -- to pursue this goal and of course, utilizing the
U.S. military is always an option at the commander-in-chief's disposal.
Ivo Daalder was the U.S. Ambassador to NATO.
You are Ambassador to NATO, and now you find that, of course, the U.S. might be planning some form of activity against a NATO member by
association, if you will. What do you make of it all?
IVO DAALDER, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO NATO: Well, of course, this is deeply, deeply disturbing. Whether something happens or not, is in and of
itself, one thing.
The very idea which is being stressed, including in the statement you just read by Karoline Leavitt that the only way the United States can ensure the
security of Greenland is by owning it is a blow to the NATO Alliance, because, in fact, the Alliance consists of an idea that the way we can
ensure security of each other is by being willing to defend each other.
QUEST: Right.
DAALDER: There is nothing that NATO doesn't provide today to ensure America's security in the NATO Alliance of the United States and in
Greenland. By making this distinction that security requires owning territory, we are undermining the fundamental principle of the NATO
Alliance.
QUEST: All right, but they don't seem to care about that.
So let me ask, what do you think are the ways? Look, let's be clear, sir, Ambassador, I never -- you never thought you'd have to answer this question
and I never thought I'd ever have to ask such a question. But we are where we are, so let's plow on regardless.
What are the ways, in your view, that the U.S. could annex Greenland?
DAALDER: Well, it could do it in a number of different ways. One, it could just declare that Greenland is now part of the United States, deploy a
relatively small military force and tell Denmark and the people of Greenland, you don't like it, try to figure out how to change the status
quo.
We can just declare in some ways that Greenland becomes part of the United States, knowing that we have the military forces to prevent Denmark or the
people in Greenland of retaking total sovereignty and control of their territory. That's what's happened, by the way, with parts of Ukraine. It is
what the Chinese are threatening with regard to Taiwan, and it would just make this idea that in this world that we live in, the strong do as they as
they will, and the weak shall do as they must.
So it is not that difficult. The problem is the consequences of that.
QUEST: Right. But so -- let's look at those consequences. Firstly, there is a world of difference between deposing Maduro, where you may get a lot of
people who say, yes, rah-rah! Excellent, excellent, and subjugating a democratic country where you could end up with an entire population, all
right, only tens of thousands, but actually who are against you?
DAALDER: Yes, and it is -- I mean, it does make a difference. Venezuela has got 28 million, which is one of the reasons why way we are going to run it
is by declaring it. In the case of Greenland, frankly, it is 50,000 people and most of whom happen to live in Nuuk, the capital, and you know, a
relatively small military force could control that with very little consequence and very little casualties.
But it is the consequences of doing that again for NATO, for global peace and security that is being ignored by the statements that are coming out of
The White House.
QUEST: Can you see a scenario where the -- an annexation or any form of unfriendly action -- I am choosing that words particularly because, you
know, basically making it very difficult and making it clear that the Greenland is part of the U.S. does not trigger Article V.
DAALDER: Well, Article V is a political doctrine. It requires unanimity. So almost by definition, it wouldn't trigger Article V.
Denmark might call for Article V, 30 nations might support Denmark in it, but one, presumably the United States would not. In which case you cannot
invoke Article V. It is not an automatic commitment, it is a political commitment. It needs to be invoked.
[16:15:04]
QUEST: Right. So can I just quickly follow up on that? So if we got to the stage of an attempt to invoke Article V or at least something similar, and
it wasn't unanimous, but everybody else was in favor, essentially we are at the end of NATO.
DAALDER: Yes, and I think that's what the Danish Prime Minister Frederiksen said. If this happens, NATO stops. It is dead. And therefore -- and there
isn't really a concerted military campaign that NATO nations other than the United States could launch. So you'd have to think about economic measures.
And there, of course, Europe has far more capability and far more ability to inflict damage on the United States, and somehow that seems to be
forgotten.
Europe is 450 million people in the European Union. Tariffs could be invoked, sanctions could be placed. U.S. businesses could be taken hold of
in one form or another. You could escalate this very quickly, which is why this is such a dangerous and totally unacceptable kind of behavior.
QUEST: I am grateful to you, sir. You never thought you'd be talking about this, I guarantee you that. Maybe accepting some seminar or some
theoretical, but here we are, and that's where we are.
I am grateful to you, sir. Thank you for joining us.
Let's talk to the country that, of course, is leading in all this. Many Danish officials are condemning the Trump administration and its rhetoric.
A member of the Danish Parliament told CNN that Stephen Miller's comments showed a shocking lack of historical understanding.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RASMUS JARLOV, DANISH PARLIAMENT MEMBER: And since 1380, so for 646 years, Greenland has belonged to Denmark uninterrupted and undisputed the entire
time. So this may be one of the most well-established ownerships of territory in the world. It is not disputed by anyone. It has never been
disputed by the United States themselves.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
QUEST: Emily Jager, the political editor for the Danish newspaper "B.T." is with me from Copenhagen.
Good evening to you. Thank you.
Like the rest of us, you never really expected we would be in this position. How angry -- politicians are trying to dance the line. The Prime
Minister doesn't want to be, you know, that's true -- but ordinary people, the man or woman on the Copenhagen Omnibus, as we say, how angry are they?
EMILY JAGER, POLITICAL EDITOR, "B.T.": I say they are fairly angry, right, because even though this comes as no surprise, given the fact that this is
just Trump repeating what he said a year ago, I would say that more than angry, they're really just saddened because many people in Denmark still
view the U.S. as one of our closest and most important allies. Right? It is the country that we have been fighting wars with. It is the country that we
have been fighting, even unpopular wars with and standing with them in thick and thin.
And now we hear this from one -- from the U.S. and from The White House, so of course, many people are just really saddened also.
QUEST: Do they want -- do you think there is a consensus behind the Prime Minister for her taking this very firm line and going as hard as she
possibly can against what is happening?
JAGER: Yes, I would say so, also, because in all the polling that has been, the Danish people are one of the people in the world that are most anti-
Trump to begin with. So I think there is really a broad consensus on this being the right approach.
But we have to remember, there is also a history here because we have seen that Prime Minister Mette Frederiksen previously has made some promises to
Donald Trump on trying to amp up security in the Arctic. She has failed to deliver. So one might wonder if that's perhaps in the back of Donald
Trump's mind.
QUEST: But this is interesting, Emily, because at some point, Denmark is going to be looking for much greater strength of words from European
allies, from friends, neighbors and countrymen. The French, the British, even though they are not part of the E.U., the Germans.
You're going to be wanting the Europeans to basically tell Denmark, you're not on your own in this regard. Do you see that happening?
JAGER: Yes, of course, we have definitely seen that happening all throughout the day. We know that Mette Frederiksen has been in Paris
meeting with the Coalition of the Willing, and even there, there has been tremendous support for Denmark from Keir Starmer, from Macron, all across
the board, I would say Ursula von der Leyen also has made some statements supporting Denmark, and it really is the case that you guys talked about
the fact that Trump don't really need to possess Greenland because we also have this NATO Alliance, right?
[16:20:10]
But even more than that, there is also a defense agreement at place between Denmark and the United States, where the United States has broad access to
deploy soldiers, to have more military stations there just like they had under the Cold War.
So more than just NATO, there is also a defense agreement at place if it is that he is actually worried about the what can you say, worried about
Greenland falling into Chinese or Russian hands.
QUEST: Emily, political editor of "B.T.," which of course, is a CNN affiliate. We are very grateful for that and we are even more grateful that
you've joined us tonight to give us the position from Copenhagen.
I wish you a good evening in Denmark. Thank you.
JAGER: Thank you.
QUEST: It is QUEST MEANS BUSINESS tonight in New York. Coming up, high tensions in Venezuela. The Maduro loyalists are patrolling the streets. It
is a show of force, in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
QUEST: In Caracas, Venezuela, of course, tensions are high following the weekend's events. Human rights groups are reporting a wave of repression.
The Venezuelan Interior Minister posted this video of security forces in the capital.
The armed men are shouting "Loyal, always! Traitors, never!" There was gunfire overnight and there was confusion now between security units. The
social media shows anti-aircraft fire, the Venezuelan Ministry later said police fired at drones flying without permission.
Stefano Pozzebon is with me from Bogota.
Well, I mean, what is going on? It could have been widely predicted, the difficulties for the media, the problems and who is in charge? The
crackdown or not, as the case may be. Tell me what's going on.
STEFANO POZZEBON, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Yes. Richard. Well, Venezuela is not an easy country to move around on a regular basis. Imagine, it is less than 40
days after the President was taken out of the country by such a high profile raid from U.S. forces.
What we are seeing right now is the new woman, I should say, in charge.
[16:25:01]
Delcy Rodriguez asserting control on top of the institutions of the state. When it comes to Caracas, military is still controlled by sending out
people normally men in balaclavas, questioning people, regular citizens of their political -- you've seen the videos like the one posted by Diosdado
Cabello with the slogan of "Always loyal, never traitors."
Of course, it is a catch-up exercise, essentially, because of course, the whole security apparatus has been found on their lapses, given the
embarrassment of having the sitting head of state taken out of his bedroom together with his wife, and being taken -- now he is sitting at the
Metropolitan Detention Center up in Brooklyn, closer to where you are, Richard.
At the same time in Caracas, life is going back to normal. We hear from the people that we speak with in the Venezuelan capital, including our
colleagues from CNN and CNN Espanol, that these sort of routine checkups around the country and the city in particular, are continuing.
And at the same time, Delcy Rodriguez did appear a couple of times on Venezuelan T.V. today. She was, for example, holding a Council over food
security, clearly an area of concern for country where over 84 percent of the population still live below the poverty line, Richard.
But one news that we are tracking, and this is coming over from our colleagues at Reuters, is that there are already meetings currently being
held between representatives of Rodriguez and representatives from The White House on how to boost the exports of oil. That is the clear match
that the rest will fall in line if it will end up in a deal -- Richard.
QUEST: Stefano, the Acting President, says: No external agent is running Venezuela accordingly. There is no external agent who governs Venezuela. It
is Venezuela et cetera, et cetera. I suppose, she would say that, wouldn't she?
But there does seem to be this idea that, yes, the U.S. will let them do what they want in Caracas. They may have decapitated the head, but the rest
can carry on doing their own policies, providing when the U.S. says jump, the Caracas administration jumps to their command. That seems a realistic
way forward in a sense without boots on the ground.
POZZEBON: Yes, yes, indeed, and it seems that when they say jump, they mean we want more of your oil for our own companies, for companies like Chevron,
also ExxonMobil and that where it used to be active in Venezuela in the last 20 years or so, following the rule of both Hugo Chavez and then, of
course, Nicolas Maduro and the seizures of several of the assets and structures for U.S. corporations down there.
It seems like what you said is, correct, that they decapitated the snake of Venezuelan government, a new head is in charge of the stake. The stake is
still very much in control and Delcy Rodriguez is just in between a rock and a hard place in having to find an intent, at least let's call it an
intent cordiale with President Trump and believes in what Donald Trump is asking her to deliver, this time showing that she has some backbone and
demanding the release of Nicolas Maduro, knowing full well that that release will not arrive anytime soon -- Richard.
QUEST: Stefano, glad to have you there. Thank you. Stefano Pozzebon joining us.
Now, continuing our coverage, President Trump celebrated the whole business. When he was speaking to the Republican lawmakers, he highlighted
the lack of losses amongst U.S. forces and the sharp damage they inflicted.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: People are saying it goes down with one of the most incredible -- it was so complex,
152 airplanes. Many, many -- talk about boots on the ground. We had a lot of boots on the ground, but it was amazing. And think of it, nobody was
killed. And on the other side, a lot of people were killed, unfortunately, I say that, the soldiers, Cubans, mostly Cubans, but many, many killed.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
QUEST: The President says he now considers himself in charge of Venezuela. The country has to be nursed back to health before elections to take place.
Betsy Klein is with me in Washington.
To a certain extent, that's true. It is a sort of a statement of the obvious. I mean, having decapitated the snake, you can't just sort of let
it out, and to a certain extent, they are right when Stephen Miller says you can't just send Machado back until you stabilize the position.
The problem is here, give us the perspective from Washington and The White House. The problem is the stabilizing that they are doing is basically the
regime on you just dancing to The White House tune.
BETSY KLEIN, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE REPORTER AND WRITER: Well, it is a really great question, Richard, and so much has been said about the
meticulous planning that went into that capture of Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro. But there has been a real lack of clarity on the day after
and what these next steps are going to be.
President Trump touted that operation as he addressed House Republicans at their retreat earlier this morning, and though there has been a briefing
with top leadership of the House and Senate Intelligence Committees, there are a lot of lawmakers who had a lot of questions for the President behind
closed doors.
Those questions fall into three main categories. Number one, what was the rationale for this operation and doing so without congressional approval?
Was it stemming the flow of illegal drugs? Was it regime change? Was it access to Venezuela's rich reserves of oil? And there is a real distinction
here between whether this was a military operation or a law enforcement one from a legal perspective of whether The White House was able to do this
without having that congressional approval.
[16:31:03]
Separately, who is in charge? The president again told NBC News when asked that it was, quote, "me." But he's also indicated that some of his top
deputies. That include Stephen Miller, his deputy chief of staff, along with Secretary of State Rubio and the Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth, are
also involved in those processes going forward.
QUEST: Let me jump in.
KLEIN: Yes.
QUEST: Let me just jump in there because what I don't understand is, I mean, it's very hard for anyone to understand, frankly, you've got all this
with Venezuela going on and you start poking the bear with Greenland, and you start -- or they, they start putting out statements that all options
are on the table, whilst Witkoff and Jared are standing next to European leaders.
Is it possible to see strategy here or is it being made up as it goes along?
KLEIN: That's a great question for the White House. And I think they believe that they do have a strategy here. They believe that Greenland is
in the U.S. national security interest. As you mentioned, we've got a statement a few moments ago from White House Press Secretary Karoline
Leavitt reiterating essentially what Stephen Miller told our colleague Jake Tapper yesterday, which is that acquiring Greenland is a national security
priority and they are discussing a range of options.
Stephen Miller said that no one would fight the U.S. Military if the U.S. attempted to acquire Greenland. That, of course, raises so many questions
about the future of the NATO alliance there and what happens, and lawmakers, of course, are very concerned about what will happen going
forward.
QUEST: Fascinating. Thank you. I'm grateful for you. Thank you very much. Tonight, Betsy Klein in Washington.
As we continue, President Trump wants U.S. businesses back in Venezuela. Now the prospect for profits are huge. And the oil companies have a very
long term views on all of this. They might be ready and ripe for exactly this investment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:36:07]
QUEST: I'm Richard Quest. We have more QUEST MEANS BUSINESS. We'll be talking to an investor in Venezuela and runs on the risks of putting money
into the country in a post Maduro. But the opportunities are huge. BlackBerry, once known for their ubiquitous phones and devices, tonight the
CEO tells me the priorities for the company, only after the headlines. This is CNN and here the news will always come first.
Ukraine may be closer than ever to getting firm security guarantees from the West. A short time ago, the leaders of the U.K., France signed an
agreement that they say will ensure Ukraine is not attacked again once a ceasefire with Russia is in place. The details are sketchy. The U.S. has
agreed to take part in the security agreement by providing crucial monitoring along the front lines.
The monitoring group Iran Human Rights is now reporting at least 27 people have been killed amid a government crackdown. There are reports Iranian
government forces carried out widespread arrests and a number of those people detained now exceeds 1,000.
Venezuela's capital remains highly tense in the aftermath of the capture of Maduro. Video verified by us shows anti-aircraft fire over Caracas. Sources
say some of the gunfire near the presidential palace was related to confusion between paramilitary groups that are tied to the regime.
President Trump wants U.S. companies back in Venezuela, and he says they could get the country's energy infrastructure up and running in less than
18 months. There's going to be a meeting at the White House with energy leaders in the coming days. The president suggested their investments could
be reimbursed by the U.S. or through oil revenues and many other businesses stand to profit.
The problem, of course, the Venezuelan bonds, the existing debt, and what happens to that. Sanctions meant it had all gone into default. But those
bonds and that debt still exists and it provides a massive problem for any new investors.
That's not my view, Robert Koenigsberger is the founder of Gramercy Funds Management. His funds invested in Venezuelan debt.
Sir, you and I were talking. You were making the point to me, which I think is very well made, that this existing debt isn't just going to be written
off or paid down or haircutted in favor of new opportunities. It's going to be dealt with.
ROBERT KOENIGSBERGER, FOUNDER, GRAMERCY FUNDS MANAGEMENT: Correct. Good evening. You know, what we've seen historically in emerging markets over
the past 35, 40 years is these old debt stocks have to be resolved before you can have the foreign direct investment that's being talked about in
Venezuela or other portfolio investments. So, you know, the interesting thing about sovereign debt is countries can disappear, but their debt
obligations don't disappear. Right?
The former Soviet Union disappeared, but their debt obligations didn't, or Yugoslavia disappeared, but their debt obligations didn't. It became joint
and several of the five subsequent republics. So we've typically seen is the condition precedent to coming back to the capital markets and to
drawing foreign direct investment is resolution of the previous debt stock.
QUEST: And how urgent is that in relation to new investment in oil? Because that's private sector investment. That's not a bilateral government-to-
government or IMF-WB. That is going in. So let's say the U.S. government guarantees the investments and says, you go in there, we'll make sure that
once you've got the oil out, you get reimbursed.
Does that -- I can see you're looking at me cynically on that.
KOENIGSBERGER: No, I'm looking cynically only because I think the likelihood of that type of guarantee is never zero but it's quite low.
[16:40:05]
But I think you're right to bifurcate the difference between foreign direct investment that's directed towards the oil sector. I mean, let's be honest,
that's continued and would probably be larger if it hadn't been for sanctions despite the bond default. But in order to have the economy
operate at normal levels, there needs to be normalization of some of these past liabilities.
QUEST: Everybody has been telling me, whenever we talk about the new -- the new opportunities, it's going to be decades. It's going to be years. The
investments are going to be huge. But you've got some interesting comparisons vis a vis say, for example, Iraq.
KOENIGSBERGER: Sure. I mean, and I think Iraq is a great example in terms of the potential here, right? So, you know, when the Marines invaded Iraq,
they were doing about a million barrels a day. Today, they're doing five million barrels a day. The economy was about 25 billion. Today, it's 250
billion. And I don't think you can argue that Iraq was a walk-in-the-park relative to what we're seeing in Venezuela today.
So the potential is huge. And, you know, it happened faster than many would predict. Many predicted it wouldn't happen. And look, what happened over
the weekend, people thought, you know, regime change would take forever to happen and then it happened very quickly. You know, the thing about oil
companies is they think in decades, not years, not quarters, not weeks, not days.
And so I think what's missing in Venezuela from an investment perspective today, put, you know, normalization relations and what have you aside, is
let's remind ourselves that what happened over the weekend, you used the term decapitation. This was a removal, decapitation and extraction of the
leadership.
QUEST: Right.
KOENIGSBERGER: But the regime remains in place, and we have to remind ourselves that that regime continues to have sanctions in place.
QUEST: Right.
KOENIGSBERGER: In fact, the president herself and the head of the legislature are sanctioned individuals. So before -- you know, you just
can't simply get on an airplane and go to Caracas and start knocking on doors. There needs to be a liberation of the sanctions environment as well.
And I would expect that's going to be an incremental process. I think foreign direct investment from oil companies will be an incremental
process.
And I think this transition towards where I think the Trump administration would like to go, I mean, I think the hope everyone has that Maduro would
leave and Machado would come in. But I think the Trump administration decided that the Maduro-to-Machado bridge was just too far. So you leave
the regime in place. Like, what would it have looked like had Maduro left voluntarily? I don't think it would have been Machado overnight.
You would have had to deal with the regime, and then you would try and steer the regime towards a transition.
QUEST: Right.
KOENIGSBERGER: And we've seen plenty of that in Latin America historically, right? Like Daniel Ortega, you know, ran the dictatorship in Nicaragua in
the 1980s had an election lost in 1990, '91 to Chamorro, but then came back democratically. And we've seen that in Colombia and we've seen that in El
Salvador. We've seen that elsewhere. That's probably the best path for the Chavistas going forward. But I think we're witnessing evolution, not
revolution.
QUEST: I'm grateful. And we'll talk more as this evolution continues and you guide us through what's happening. Grateful for you, sir. Thank you.
As we continue you and me tonight, Nicolas Maduro's former number two now has Venezuela's top job. And the Trump administration has a long to do
list, in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:45:59]
QUEST: Tonight, a new message from Venezuela's acting president just sworn in. Delcy Rodriguez insists that there's no external agent running
Venezuela.
More on that from Paula Newton.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
PAULA NEWTON, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): For weeks now, in her carefully curated social media accounts, Delcy Rodriguez has strived to
project a commanding hold on the economy specifically the energy industry.
DELCY RODRIGUEZ, VENEZUELA'S ACTING PRESIDENT: (Speaking in foreign language).
NEWTON: Stressing that the situation was improving and that she was fulfilling vital commercial commitments even to the U.S.
RODRIGUEZ: (Speaking in foreign language).
NEWTON: That crafted persona is serving her well as she was sworn in as Venezuela's acting president on Monday seen by many as a steady hand who
could help avoid a transitional crisis. She is also a familiar, genial and long standing presence for Venezuelans, many of whom simply refer to her as
Delcy.
Images like these belie the repression that is still a feature of everyday life here. That includes a decree that allows the regime to hunt down and
capture anyone who promotes or supports the U.S. attack on the country.
In an interview with FOX News on Monday, Venezuelan opposition leader Maria Corina Machado warned that Rodriguez will remain loyal to the regime.
MARIA CORINA MACHADO, VENEZUELAN OPPOSITION LEADER: She's the main ally and liaison with Russia, China, Iran, certainly not an individual that that
could be, you know, trusted by international investors.
NEWTON: In fact, Rodriguez was embraced by ambassadors from Russia, China and Iran, just moments after she was sworn in.
Todd Robinson, the former acting U.S. ambassador to Venezuela during President Trump's first term, tells CNN Rodriguez is smart but combative
and cunning.
TODD D. ROBINSON, FORMER ACTING U.S. AMBASSADOR TO VENEZUELA: My guess is she has worked some kind of deal where she will either be able to stay for
a while as the as they work through a transition. Perhaps leave after the transition is over. She was part of the ruling elite, the coterie, that was
benefiting from the -- all of the illegal activity going on at the highest levels of the Maduro regime.
NEWTON: U.S. President Trump has warned that if Rodriguez doesn't do what's right, he told the "Atlantic" she is going to pay a very big price.
The scope of what's right, though, in Venezuela has so far been focused on the economy and a calm transition, not the democratic rights of its
citizens.
Paula Newton, CNN.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
QUEST: In a moment, it's decade or two, perhaps, since you thought about a BlackBerry phone. I still have mine at home. Unfortunately, I forgot to
bring it with me today. It's kept in a box, and now the company BlackBerry, well, it's been through several iterations. The chief executive of
BlackBerry is with us next. There he is.
We'll be talking to you, John, in just a moment on your latest developments in the automotive industry.
QUEST MEANS BUSINESS. Good evening to you.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:52:00]
QUEST: BlackBerry is the company that has lived many lives. You'll recall the BlackBerry smartphone. I had one pretty much from the beginning. They
raged 15 to 20 odd years ago. They fell out of style. BlackBerry tried to come up with a new device, a Windows type of device. It pivoted to cyber
security and then software.
And now it's supporting the automotive and enterprise security industries. It's expanding in the auto industry with the software by its QNX brand that
will power certain features in new BMW cars, including automated driving.
The first time I held a BlackBerry was at CES. Today, the CEO of BlackBerry is John Giamatteo. He joins me now from CES.
John, good evening to you, and the exactly what is it that BlackBerry does now?
JOHN GIAMATTEO, CEO, BLACKBERRY: Good evening, Richard. Thank you for having me on the program. We miss you here at CES. And yes, BlackBerry
today, mission critical software and services, as you mentioned on the intro. We power over 275 million cars around the world with our QNX
operating system, which we have on display here in Vegas. That's one of our businesses.
And we have a second division, our secure communications division, which powers 18 out of the largest G20 countries around the world. Eight out of
the ten largest global banks in the world are using our encrypted technology and emergency notification systems, so that basically software
services for mission critical applications is what the new BlackBerry is all about.
QUEST: Do you have any ambitions to be ever again consumer facing?
GIAMATTEO: Well, I think we have established ourselves as a -- it's been a large transformation over the course of the last decade as we've divested
businesses and really narrowed our focus towards the B2B segments of QNX and secure communications. So that narrowing of focus has allowed us to
simplify, reduce our costs, divest ourselves from subscale businesses, and really put ourselves in a much better position for profitability and long
term growth. So I guess the long answer is you probably won't see us in consumer applications anytime soon.
QUEST: And that really doesn't matter if you're profitable, which you are, and that you are -- you know, if you are a strategic part of infrastructure
on the security level, it doesn't really matter whether I've got you in my back pocket or not. What I worry about, of course, is the ability of other
companies, particularly in the A.I. sphere, to steal your clothes. You know, to be a leader in security is great until somebody else takes over.
[16:55:02]
GIAMATTEO: Yes, yes. You couldn't be more right. It's an evolving industry from an A.I. perspective. You know, mission critical communications and
encrypted technology. That's what we do best. We ironclad our systems. The amount of R&D that we spend a year in the 20 countries that we operate
around the world, all are geared towards providing that safe experience of security, trust and innovation to our customers. And that's what we're
committed to delivering.
QUEST: So when we look, for example, at the automated driving of, say, BMW cars and you see what Nvidia came up with yesterday in terms of its new
chip, also about -- why is the automobile industry so significant for chip makers, for people like yourself? It seems to be a fundamental part of tech
infrastructure now.
GIAMATTEO: Yes, absolutely. The amount of software and technology that's going into a car these days, it's truly like a mainframe on wheels. And
that's where we shine. Our QNX is the core operating systems that actually runs those programs, all in a safety certified way. And so as we do more
autonomous driving, as there's more technology and more cores of the likes of Nvidia, it's the QNX platform that is actually they're building their
technology on top of from a platform perspective.
QUEST: John, I'm grateful for you, sir. Thank you for joining us tonight. Much appreciated.
We will take a "Profitable Moment" after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
QUEST: Tonight's "Profitable Moment," so Greenland. All right. The United States says quite clearly and quite categorically that it wants to take
over Greenland. The problem, of course, is Denmark, which wants to stop it. There is and of course NATO, which stands to be destroyed if they do -- if
U.S. goes militarily.
There is only one question to be asked tonight. If that is the U.S. policy to try to take -- to have Greenland as part of its strategic future, how do
you execute that? Period. That's it. Do you do it by force? Do you try by negotiation? Do you try and discuss it? It doesn't matter. The only
question that needs to be asked again and again of the U.S. is, how do you propose to do it? And the answer to that depends on the future of NATO, the
future of the alliance and the future of the Transatlantic relationship.
And that's QUEST MEANS BUSINESS for tonight. I'm Richard Quest. Whatever you're up to in the hours ahead, I hope it is profitable.
END
