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Quest Means Business
Epstein Scandal Rocks Britain From Palace To Parliament; Spanish Prime Minister: Mistake For U.S. To Run Venezuela; IBM CEO: Tech Can Grow Economies Than Defense, Finance; Spanish Prime Minister Says Europe Must Become A Security Provider; Dana Gas Seeks New Business Opportunities In Syria; Colombia's President Meets With Trump At The White House. Aired 4p- 5p ET
Aired February 03, 2026 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[16:00:16]
RICHARD QUEST, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST, "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS": Closing bell ringing on Wall Street. It is a good day on the market. Well, it is a weird
day, actually. The market was up at the beginning and then it is down, but I say good because it has recovered much of the losses over the course of
the last hour or two. A steady climb back towards point zero, hasn't quite made it. The hammer has been hit. Trading is over.
Those are the markets and these are the main events of the day: The fallout from the Epstein files continues. Now, Lord Peter Mandelson faces a
criminal investigation.
President trump is hosting his Colombian counterpart at The White House. We are going to hear from President Gustavo Petro at this hour in a joint
press conference.
And on this program tonight, Spain's Prime Minister tells me The White House is making a mistake by dictating the terms of Venezuela's path to
democracy. Pedro Sanchez is with me.
For most of you now, it is still, Tuesday, February the 3rd. Here in Dubai, we have elegantly slipped into Wednesday.
Well, wherever you are, I am Richard Quest and it doesn't matter, left, right or center, I mean business.
Now, just after 1:00 A.M. here in Dubai and it is the first official day of the World Government Summit, which has drawn to a close. We've been
speaking to business and political leaders from around the Middle East and the world. You'll hear them on tonight's program.
Oh, look at that marvelous view of the Burj Al Arab, which is actually next door to where we are. So, that's a live shot that you're seeing this night
at night. Who are you going to hear from tonight? The Spanish Prime Minister, the Chief Executive of IBM and the CEO's of Dana Gas and the
biotech upstart, Colossal Biosciences, with their wolves and wooly mammoths.
We start, though, with prominent British Royal and political figures who are facing further repercussions and fallout after the Jeffrey Epstein
affair.
Peter Mandelson, who was fired as the U.K.'s Ambassador in Washington, now faces a criminal investigation over his relationship with the convicted sex
offender Epstein.
British Police are looking into whether Mandelson leaked market sensitive government information to Epstein. Mr. Mandelson -- Lord Mandelson is
expected to resign from the House of Lords on Wednesday, having already resigned from the British Labour Party yesterday.
The former Prince Andrew has faced increased scrutiny over his ties. So has his ex-wife, Sarah Ferguson, her charitable foundation has announced it
will close for the foreseeable future, and here at the World Government Summit, Andrew's brother, Prince Edward, the Duke of Edinburgh, was asked
about the scandal.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PRINCE EDWARD, DUKE OF EDINBURGH: I am not sure this is the audience that is probably the least bit interested in that. So they all came here to
listen to my education solving the future. And -- but no, I think it is all really important always to remember the victims and who are the victims in
all this.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
QUEST: Max Foster is in London.
Let's do Prince Edward first, and then we will do Peter Mandelson.
They can't escape this. I mean, the reality is that King, Their Majesties with their statement about the victims, set the tone, but the reality is,
this is -- whatever they do, it is going to hang over them.
MAX FOSTER, CNN ROYAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, and they weren't making any public statements. It was interesting. Well, the Palace, at least, it was
interesting hearing a senior Royal making a public statement, and what I thought was interesting about it, it was very much in line with the British
government about putting victims first, which therefore explains the rest of the government process here, which is if you put the victims first, then
these men need to be investigated to try to get some sort of justice for the survivors.
So actually, it was interesting how the monarchy is speaking on the same page as British government, and we very much saw that playing out today as
you were talking there about Mandelson, Richard, because it the day started with him saying he is not going to take his seat in the House of Lords,
then it quickly roller coastered because last night, the government said it was going to look at any sort of allegations of sharing market sensitive
information, and it only took them less than a day to find something which was enough to send the police.
And at the same time, Gordon Brown, who was Prime Minister, whilst Mandelson was Business Secretary when all this was happening, also found
some correspondence relating to Mandelson, sent that into the police, and now we have the first police investigation, criminal investigation off the
back of these Epstein files.
[16:05:10]
So, it is a big moment in the broader story and it is interesting that the U.K. actually on the front foot on this in many ways.
QUEST: When Mandelson resigns from the Lords, the question, of course, he will no longer be sitting in the Lords whether he keeps the peerage title
is another matter.
FOSTER: Well, that's another extraordinary moment of today. There are so many today. The Prime Minister -- you know, as you know, Richard, it is a
very complex process to take away a peerage, but the Prime Minister has started that legislative process. He is going to, you know, he is going to
take up Parliamentary Time and it requires a new law, and it will be stripped from him.
Obviously, many people saying, look, he should avoid all of that and just resign the peerage, anyway, he hasn't done that. But the Prime Minister
very much wanted to be seen in control of this, because at the same time, there are opposition politicians saying, actually, Keir Starmer should
never have appointed him as the U.S. Ambassador in the first place and he is really trying to avoid any sort of mud sticking to him, so, they are
going all the way.
But it is interesting that the police think there is enough to investigate here. This has nothing to do with any sexual allegations. It is really
sensitive secret government information that he has alleged to have leaked to a big investor.
QUEST: Max, as our Royal correspondent and bearing in mind Andrew is about to move to Marsh Farm and that is probably where he will stay. Is there a
feeling in your view that all things being equal, they the King has done the best he can? He moved maybe a little late, but he moved with great
fierceness or ferocity when he finally did, and that they have drawn a line.
FOSTER: Well, I think with all of these cases, when something is finally done, everyone asks the question, should it have been done sooner? So when
Prince Andrew, as he was, talked about his friendship with Jeffrey Epstein, should the King have acted then, I think this is all going to come out in
the wash. I have to say, the polling numbers aren't great for the British Monarchy right now.
This has had an impact on them, and we've got a very interesting story. You would have seen, Richard, as well in Norway, where the Crown Princess is
found to have had an ongoing relationship. Also, you know, an e-mail relationship of some kind with Epstein, that's actually a far more complex
issue. It is one thing sending out one of the spares, as it were, to the shires. It is very different issue, if you've got the Crown Princess caught
up in this and quite how they are going to deal with that, because there is a big uproar amongst the Norwegian public as well.
So, you know, its spreading across European aristocracy, this story.
QUEST: Max, I am grateful. Thank you, sir for staying late talking to us tonight. Max Foster in London.
Colombia's President Petro met with Donald Trump earlier as they tried to build on detente relations. The meeting follows an unexpected phone call
nearly a month ago that started a truce in the relations.
Now, the two have spent much of President Trump's first year in office trading insults with each other. Donald Trump has repeatedly threatened
tariffs against Colombia over Gustavo Petro's policies. The Treasury Department has sanctioned President Petro over what it says is his role in
the global drug trade. Colombia is calling the accusations a slander.
Now, I misspoke at the beginning. When we get the news conference any moment now, its President Petro on his own. It won't be with Donald Trump
there. You see, the flag and the setting, and we are just waiting for the Colombian President to come, and we will bring it to you once it begins.
Juan Carlos Lopez of CNN Espanol is with me from Washington.
Good to see you, sir, with your great knowledge of these matters.
Is it your feeling that they did manage to find a detente bearing in mind that the unspoken threat was we will do to you, Petro, what we did to
Maduro.
JUAN CARLOS LOPEZ, CNN EN ESPANOL U.S. POLITICAL DIRECTOR AND ANCHOR: Well, the fact, Richard, that Petro was in the Oval Office today, I think it
signifies that it does.
Now, it might be surprising, but Petro and Trump, even though they are on political opposite sides of this political spectrum, opposite ends, they
are very similar in many ways. So, they communicate in social media.
The White House said that President Trump would give the readout on his Truth Social account. He hasn't done yet, but Petro has already published a
couple of pictures. One of them is an autographed copy of the "Art of the Deal," one of Trump's books that says, you're great and Petro is asking his
followers, what is he saying? I don't speak English.
[16:10:07]
And then there is another picture that he posted that he received from President Trump. It is a picture of both of them, which says, "Gustavo, you
are great. I love Colombia," and I think it is a cheeky in-your-face to the Colombian opposition that had anticipated this would be a catastrophe, that
it would be a very bad meeting and apparently it wasn't.
There were no cameras, there was no pool spray, but apparently, things went well. We will see if they did or not. But Petro, very eager to get off that
list.
QUEST: Right, but the fact that there were no cameras. Now, just think about some of those moments where cameras have been there. Obviously, the
most infamous one being with Zelenskyy. The fact there were no cameras, not even from the start, that speaks volumes, both for the presidents -- for
both presidents because clearly Donald Trump did not want to be put in the position.
LOPEZ: It is a month to the day, it is February 3rd. A month ago, Nicolas maduro was being captured by the U.S. and transported to New York. He also
had received an invitation to The White House, and he didn't accept it. He didn't go and he stalled and stalled and we saw what happened.
And I think even President Trump said yesterday at The White House, he said that, yes, petro was very critical of him until they captured Maduro and
then he became very nice, and I think we saw that today. I think they were both pretty aware of that -- the significance of the day and we will see if
there is anything concrete that comes out there.
But there is something underlying here, Richard, is that Colombia is one of, if not the strongest ally the U.S. has in the region, Colombian
military forces and intelligence services provide most of the intelligence for drug operations in the region. So, there is a very deep relationship.
And even though he is very loud and very vocal and sometimes very erratic in social media, the Colombian government had been doing things that the
U.S. has been asking them to do in the last months, even going back to fumigating coca crops, something that he said he would never do.
So, I think those sanctions and what happened in Venezuela really shook him up.
QUEST: I will take my luck in my hands and say thank you, sir. I think that the President is about to arrive, but we can waste a lot of time waiting
for him. So, if you'll standby, attend to your entreaties, then we can come back to you.
The key issue, or one of the key issues we've talked in that moment between the U.S. and Colombia, is the administration of Venezuela. The Prime
Minister of Spain tell me, it is a mistake for the United States to run Venezuela.
Pedro Sanchez said the future of the country needs to be decided by the Venezuelan people.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
PEDRO SANCHEZ, SPANISH PRIME MINISTER: We were more vocal, yes, because we have --
QUEST: Historic --
SANCHEZ: -- cultural, historic and I would say cultural relationship with Latin America, so we are very engaged with the present and the future of
Venezuela and also all the region. Second, we are -- we've been very vocal since, you know, the beginning of all this crisis over the last years
stating that the future of Venezuela has to be decided by the people of Venezuela. Of course, with the commitment of the international community
and especially the European Union.
So, I think all in all that what we need now is to use this opportunity to make the transition towards a democracy.
QUEST: Right, but I am not trying to be deliberately provocative, honestly.
SANCHEZ: No, not at all.
QUEST: But you say the decision would be made by the future of the people of Venezuela, but at the moment, it seems to be the future will be made by
the resident at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, The White House.
President Trump seems to be the one who is saying, I am making the decisions about Venezuela.
SANCHEZ: Yes and I think this is a mistake because this brings us to, you know, the 19th Century or the 20th Century where this kind of experience
led by the U.S. administration, previous U.S. administration you know, came out to be an absolute mistake.
So, I think it is important to engage with the people of Venezuela that the international community accompany the people of Venezuela in this
transition toward democracy, as we did in Spain back in the 70s of the 20th Century.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
QUEST: And you will hear more from my conversation with the Spanish Prime Minister later in this hour.
I do need to correct one thing, and I apologize.
At the beginning when I showed you our gallery of guests that we had, well, of course, those of you who are watching closely and I am sure you were,
will have spotted we had the wrong Pedro Sanchez, that we had the defense, now, indeed, we don't. We did have the Prime Minister.
These things happened. It shouldn't, but the wrong button gets pushed, the wrong finger gets used and that is why we end up as we did.
[16:15:10]
In a moment, we will more about IBM and the CEO who explains why technology is even more important than financial systems in a country's development.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
QUEST: Welcome back.
We are still waiting for the press conference of President Petro of Colombia to take place. It is -- the scene is set in Washington as you can
see. That is the embassy. Everybody is there waiting. We are just waiting for the President.
When it happens, we will bring it to you.
Whilst we wait, tech stocks and the Wall Street was lower. The Dow was off 166 points. The NASDAQ had the worst of it all. It was down nearly 1.5
percent, nearly or over 300 points lower.
Software and analytics stocks led the sell off. IBM and Salesforce were down heavily. Gartner and S&P Global fell even more. Investors are
concerned about how A.I. affects.
IBM chief executive says Europe will face a lot of tears before smiles if it tries to start its own tech companies. I spoke to Arvind Krishna here at
the World Government Summit. He said that countries need sovereignty over the technology, but -- and this is a crucial part -- they do not need to do
everything on their own and he explained why technology is even more important to economic development than defense and finance.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ARVIND KRISHNA, CEO, IBM: Well, if you just step back a bit, every country has always focused on defense. It is obvious, you focus on it to protect
your people. The next is financial and financial assets in the large, not just banks, because people believe you need liquidity and credit to help
grow an economy. And then you realize technology can help you grow your economy even more than those other two.
And so it has crept up, as you say, because it wasn't there forever, but it is a creature of the last 70 years. I would assert to you, it is as or more
important than the other two.
QUEST: Right. But technology is also a component of the other two, in the sense that your future defense relies on high tech solutions, same with
finance. But you're saying, the industry itself has to be strategic. Therefore, you can't just rely on other countries in all of this. In terms
of the Europeans, we are talking about --
[16:20:10]
You can no longer just rely on the Mag 7 from the U.S.
KRISHNA: Well, I have actually phrase it slightly differently. You need sovereignty and I have been very loud on saying that. But sovereignty
doesn't mean that you cannot use things from another country, but sovereignty does mean that the control of how they operate, the control of
how they get upgraded, the control of how they get maintained has to live within the country. That is what is a subtle difference, because technology
is also a game of scale.
If you try to do it and you're subscale, you're going to have very inferior technology. That's not good for you either.
QUEST: But that sovereignty, you say it is not about -- it is about where and how, but in the current environment, Europe is basically saying we have
to have our own companies.
We can no -- now, IBM is an American company, proud Big Blue, but Europe is saying we need to create our own large scale technology companies that can
compete with them.
Do you accept that or do you think that is not necessary?
KRISHNA: I think that that is a path which may result in a lot of tears before it has a lot of smiles. I think that Europe should have a lot of
companies that deploy technology. There aren't that many, it should absolutely have a number of companies that deploy technology, but the core
fundamental technologies will take decades before they're competitive.
So, you have to ask yourself whether that investment is worthwhile or not.
QUEST: The current trade environment, tariffs issues -- it is the most probably difficult that most of us have seen and I am not talking about
recessions and great financial crises. I am talking about philosophical differences that currently exist. It is the most difficult we've seen.
KRISHNA: It is certainly volatile and it is dynamic. So, you have to learn how to manage through those two. It is a difficult, I may politely
disagree.
Wasn't 2025 one of the highest GDP growth years in history on the planet? So, how do you say it is hard to do it and you also get the growth? 2026 is
predicted to be as good. So I think that yes, it is volatile and dynamic, but you have to learn how to manage in that environment.
QUEST: And in that -- if we look at IBM, you just -- we were talking about quantum, which you described as a bet. Have you bet the ranch, as the
Americans would say?
KRISHNA: Succeeding in quantum is incredibly important for our future. However, it is not existential as in the company will not die. It will not
thrive without quantum, but it is not going to die.
QUEST: When you looked at it and this might -- forgive this if this sounds such a simplistic question, bearing in mind the level at which you operate.
But when you look at quantum, what is it about it that you think this is it? What is it about --
KRISHNA: It is the first kind of new computing since 1945. So when you think there is new computing, because everything else is really based on
digital binary logic, quantum is the first time we have the possibility to have computation that is based on a different underlying architecture. If
that's the case, it opens up a set of problems you could never do on a classic computer.
If that is the case, that's exciting.
QUEST: I've been to the center. I've been to your center and seen it for myself. When will you know that its reaching its potential? When will you
know? Not, that it works, obviously it works, it is being used at the moment, but it is a rip-roaring success.
KRISHNA: 2029.
QUEST: Now, you said that with distressing speed. You said that -- you didn't have to think about it. Why are you so -- why have you got that
date? 2029?
KRISHNA: Because there is a path to where all the improvements needed -- I will use the word our "engineering improvements." You don't have to
discover new science. When that's the case, engineers are really good at charting out roadmaps of what exactly and the steps to get there.
We know the sequence of steps we have to take to get to 2029 and the scale of a quantum computer that can do a lot of things. That's not the eventual
quantum computer, but it is a good enough one that will surprise everybody with its capability.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
QUEST: The chief executive of IBM, 2029, I will make a note in my diary.
Elon Musk is accusing French authorities of a political attack after the police raided their offices of X in Paris. The authorities say they are
looking into sexually explicit images generated by Grok, the site's A.I. chatbot.
The investigation is focusing on the site's algorithm and the circulation of Holocaust denial content. Mr. Musk, the owner of X and xAI, has been
called in for questioning. So, has the former chief executive of X, Linda Yaccarino.
[16:25:10]
X is denying all wrongdoing, calling the raid an abusive act of law enforcement theater designed to achieve illegitimate political objectives.
Anna is with me. Anna Cooban in London.
Anna, I apologize if we suddenly have to leave you because we have President Petro.
Now, this is interesting because, you know, yes, it is a very serious matter, but the police going and raiding in such a fashion is also a very
serious matter. Square the circle, please.
ANNA COOBAN, CNN BUSINESS AND ECONOMICS REPORTER: Yes. Well, it is important to note, Richard, that this -- these raids were the outcome of an
investigation by French prosecutors, but it initially started on something far less serious around the use of algorithms, algorithmic bias, and then
expanded late last year to encompass these really serious topics, the dissemination of child abuse images, also Holocaust denial.
So these were areas that the French Prosecutor's Office were not going to be taking very lightly. But of course, you've got that response from X
there. It is important to say there are no charges that have been brought against X, but they are calling this an act of theater, and even talking
about how these raids or the appearance of what they are projecting -- this is something which is endangering free speech.
And, Richard, I think that really speaks to quite a key difference between how American regulators and European regulators are approaching tech
companies.
QUEST: Right.
COOBAN: In Europe, there has been this big law that come into effect a couple of years ago. Trump himself doesn't like that. He thinks it is
unfair.
QUEST: Okay, so on the political front, there is always the risk that Donald Trump now goes against Europe in some shape or form, because it is
attacking, in his view, a U.S. company. But the idea that Musk now has to be called in for questioning, is that likely to happen?
COOBAN: Well, musk has been facing mounting pressure on this particular issue over the past few weeks. This is something which he really hasn't
been able to ignore. We saw Malaysia and Indonesia actually temporarily block Grok, this A.I. chatbot, which has been accused of disseminating
these images. They have now reinstated Grok as well and X has brought in measures to try to address the issue, but whether or not Musk actually
appears before French prosecutors in April, that is the date set is yet to be seen, but he certainly has been facing huge amounts of pressure from all
fronts.
The European Union has opened an investigation. The U.K. today as well, Richard, announced that it was also opening an investigation into this.
QUEST: So where does it go from here?
COOBAN: Well, we will have to see. And as I said, there has been this real tussle between the Trump administration and European regulators about how
to address that really thorny question about how to really rein in massive tech companies. Will European regulators really deploy this massive
instrument -- this legal -- this massive law they've got in which they can levy massive fines against tech companies? This is something that is yet to
be seen.
QUEST: Right! Anna, I am grateful. Thank you. Anna Cooban is in London.
Now here at the World Governments Summit, yes, it is plural, World Governments Summit, Spain unveiled plans to ban social media for children
under the age of 16. It would match countries like Australia, France and Denmark, which have all moved to shield young people from the influence of
digital platforms.
Spain's Prime Minister said his government also plans to hold social media executives criminally liable if they fail to remove harmful content.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Today, our children are exposed to a space they were never meant to navigate alone. A space of addiction, abuse, pornography, manipulation,
violence. We will no longer accept that. We will protect them from the digital wild west.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
QUEST: You will hear more from Pedro Sanchez, the Spanish Prime Minister, who is talking to me about how the E.U. must become more competitive. And
of course, his immigration policy offering residency to half a million undocumented migrants in Spain.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:32:21]
QUEST: Hello, I'm Richard Quest. Together we will have a lot more QUEST MEANS BUSINESS. You're going to hear part two of my interview with the
Spanish Prime Minister Pedro Sanchez, who tells me Europe needs to go from a consumer of security to a provider. And Colossal Biosciences chief exec
Ben Lamm, a modern day Noah's Ark. It's fascinating.
But we'll get to it only after the news headlines because of course this is CNN. And on this network, the news always comes first.
British Police are investigating former ambassador to the United States, Peter Mandelson, after damaging allegations surfaced in the Epstein files.
They're reportedly looking into whether he leaked market sensitive government information to the late sex offender Jeffrey Epstein. Lord
Mandelson is currently earlier announced he's retiring from parliament.
U.S. President Donald Trump and the Colombian President Gustavo Petro appear to have ended their very public feud. The two leaders were smiles
today during a meeting at the White House. In stark contrast to the insults they've hurled at each other over the last year. President Petro posted a
photo of a letter signed by Mr. Trump which read, "I love Colombia."
Disney has named its new chief executive. It's Josh D'Amaro, who chairs Disney's hugely successful parks division and will succeed Bob Iger next
month. Disney announced the succession plan on Tuesday morning. It so brought to an end years of speculation about who would take over the helm
of one of the world's biggest entertainment companies.
NATO's secretary general, Mark Rutte, was in Kyiv today as a show of solidarity with Ukraine. Mr. Rutte urged NATO allies to dig deep to meet
Ukraine's military needs. The Spanish Prime Minister Pedro Sanchez told me the best way the E.U. can strengthen NATO is by investing in its own
European security.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
PEDRO SANCHEZ, SPANISH PRIME MINISTER: I think that Europe needs to change from being a consumer of security to a security provider. And what does it
mean? That means that we need to invest in our own security and defense industry. And that means that what we need to do is to spend this 2 percent
of our GDP in European Union defense. That is why I was telling you before that the most challenging goal for the European Union is to strengthen the
European Union pillar of NATO.
[16:35:05]
QUEST: On that point, President Lagarde said this is the biggest wake-up call that Europe has had.
SANCHEZ: Yes. I agree.
QUEST: Everybody signs on to that.
SANCHEZ: Yes.
QUEST: Everybody agrees with that. But typical Europe, sir. Typical Europe getting from the call to the action to the execution.
SANCHEZ: But we are delivering.
QUEST: That's the problem.
SANCHEZ: But we are delivering. Let me say that -- what we need to do in the European Union is, first of all, to deepen, our single market. And at
the same time, what we need to do is to open ourselves to other markets. And what we did was to finalize a very positive trade agreement with
Mercosur. We are close to finalize a very positive trade agreement with India, and afterwards we'll come other free trade agreements with Malaysia
and other regions of South Asia.
So I think that we are doing our homework. Perhaps we need to do it faster, but I think that this is the correct path to follow for the European Union
in the coming, in the coming years.
QUEST: Your most recent statement of residency to a pathway to citizenship, a pathway for people, this is in complete half a million.
SANCHEZ: Half a million.
QUEST: Half a million. This is completely the opposite direction that everybody else is going in terms of that. Why did you do it?
SANCHEZ: Well, there's a, there's a moral angle of this debate, which is that Spain has been for many years a country of migrants. Our fathers, our
grandparents, of course, they went to other places precisely because we were suffering a dictatorship of the lack of opportunities, economic
opportunities. And nowadays there's also a pragmatic angle, which means that, of course, these are people that are contributing to the economic
success of Spain.
And by the way, they represent more or less 10 percent of our Social Security income, and they only represent 1 percent of the total spending
when it comes to public spending.
QUEST: Whatever the righteousness of the argument, how do you get over the moral hazard argument that you will encourage more illegal immigration in
the future, undocumented immigration, because people will say, let's go to Spain and wait for the next time they do this?
SANCHEZ: Well, this is, this is, this is fake. It is not -- it is not the reality. They are not coming to Spain because we're giving papers, but
because of our strong economic performance. Point number one. And point number two, I think that if -- when it comes to the reality of migration in
Spain, 90 percent of migrants in Spain came through regular paths, and we were able, over the last years, to reduce dramatically the inflows of
irregular migration because we were cooperating and collaborating with these countries of origin and transit, such as Morocco, Senegal, Gambia and
Mauritania.
QUEST: You always look at the Spanish unemployment numbers and they're always very high because of the nature of the way unemployment is counted,
the way the whole thing is, is organized.
SANCHEZ: But things are changing.
QUEST: That's my point. But things are -- the number has come down dramatically. And what I'm wanting to know is, is it really coming down or
is it just a case of, again, because Spain has traditionally counted it in a different way?
SANCHEZ: No, no, no. We are, you know, this was the second year in a row that Spain was the largest growing, major advanced economy in the world. We
reached 2.8 percent of economic growth in 2025. We have more than 22 million people working. So, you know, we are I would say leading the
economy within the European Union. And I would say also in the Western, in the Western societies.
So this is, this is very important in order to say that for the first time, well, actually, over the last 45 years.
QUEST: Yes.
SANCHEZ: There were only three years where we had unemployment rates below 10 percent. And in 2025, we reached that goal again.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
QUEST: That's the Spanish prime minister joining me here. I was just about to say here in Davos. Old habits die hard. We start to the day. We're in
Dubai instead. It's World Government Summit and Syria is here looking for help in rebuilding its economy. I'll talk with the CEO of Dana Gas who's
answering the call. QUEST MEANS BUSINESS.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:42:37]
QUEST: Welcome back. Syrian officials are here at the World Government Summit looking for partners to help rebuild the war-torn economy. Dana Gas
has already agreed to redevelop Syria's energy sector. The Middle East's largest private gas company signed that deal back in November immediately
almost after Syria's president went to the White House to seek sanctions relief. It was the first energy developer to reach such an agreement.
Richard Hall is with me, chief exec of Dana Gas.
It's good to see you, sir.
RICHARD HALL, CEO, DANA GAS: Thank you very much, Richard. Nice to be here.
QUEST: Well, you know, you get easy questions because anybody who turns up at 2:00 in the morning. So let me ask you, the Syrian opportunity is huge
again. Wherever I go in this region, I'm told opportunities are huge, but risks are enormous as well.
HALL: I think that's a fair question. It's -- the risks are enormous. But we are a niche player in, I would say, challenging environments. So in
Syria, the appeal for us is that it has geological, geopolitical and geographical similarities to our main operation, which we conduct in
conjunction with Crescent Petroleum as joint operators in the Kurdistan region of Iraq. We also conduct operations in Egypt, which is quite
challenging also. So we see parallels.
QUEST: Challenging, do you -- now for you is challenging economic, political, geological? What do you define as challenging?
HALL: All of the above. So there are technical difficulties. I think those are specialty it's solving. And we're also used to difficult security
situations which are challenging and geographical. So in Syria, for instance, there's been 15 years of a regime where nothing really was
allowed in or out. And therefore the challenge is actually putting that all back together again.
QUEST: How much do you think is actually underneath there in Syria? I mean, because I guess there are records and files and data, but it goes back a
long time.
HALL: Correct. Correct. So we have to make new assessments.
QUEST: Yes?
HALL: And what we're doing at the moment. So it was slightly incorrect what we started with there. We haven't actually signed up to do any
redevelopment at the moment. We are assessing the situation. The government there --
QUEST: You're like all those ones who said they're going to Venezuela.
HALL: Well.
(LAUGHTER)
QUEST: You're assessing the situation.
HALL: We are assessing the situation.
QUEST: But unlike Venezuela, you don't believe that Syria is uninvestable.
HALL: Absolutely not. We think there's a -- there's a huge amount of investment going in. It comes with risk and the risk is geopolitical
mainly.
[16:45:05]
But we see, I've been to Damascus probably seven times in the last seven months, and I'm shocked at the pace of development and the change that you
see every time you go.
QUEST: What sort -- there's no U.S. government like in Venezuela to give you guarantees. So what sort of guarantees in Syria can you seek, or would
you wish to have? Because other than the Syrian government, I mean, you're on your own once you've gone in there.
HALL: You are. So we look at security guarantees.
QUEST: Well, I think, and I think I'm talking about also, there's security guarantees, you can look after yourself in a sense. I'm talking about
investment guarantees.
HALL: Yes, investment.
QUEST: Political guarantees, guarantees that you're not only going to be expropriated.
HALL: Yes. So we would look to get payments guaranteed, if you like, through some sort of sovereign mechanism. So, for instance, at the moment
the Qataris are putting a lot of money into Syria. And it may be that you'd have to go to them. I think the Syrians would admit themselves they don't
have the funding to give us the security we want in terms of financial security. Yes.
QUEST: The point about this, well, the fascinating point is that we're talking fossil fuels here, and we're supposed to be weaning ourselves off
them.
HALL: That's the theory. But the -- if you look at the Middle East in general, right, the forward plan is really a diverse energy mix. And gas is
very much part of that. So even if you look at UAE, the UAE energy strategy for 2050, the fuel mix, there is 44 percent of clean fuel, 38 percent is
still natural gas, 6 percent is nuclear. And the rest, believe it or not, is clean coal, which is carbon capture special thing there.
QUEST: Right.
HALL: But oil doesn't really feature. Coal doesn't really feature apart from this clean coal. But gas is very much in the mix. Gas is the
springboard for going forward into renewables.
QUEST: I can feel some people about to launch themselves at the television, but that's a debate for another day.
Good to see you, sir. Thank you very much indeed.
Now it's QUEST MEANS BUSINESS. We will be back in just a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
QUEST: President Trump is speaking in the Oval Office after his meeting with the Colombian president, Gustavo Petro. This is what he said a moment
or two ago.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Yes, please.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Mr. President, how was your meeting with Gustavo Petro earlier today? And did you come to any agreement on counter-narcotic
efforts?
TRUMP: Yes, we did. We worked on it and we got along very well.
[16:50:03]
He and I weren't exactly the best of friends, but I wasn't insulted because I never met him. I didn't know him at all. And we got along very well. And
we are, we're working on that and we're working on some other things, too, including sanctions and we had a very good meeting.
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP: I thought it was terrific. You know, he's very good. We got along great.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Mr. President, can you give us any update on how the talks are going for --
(END VIDEO CLIP)
QUEST: Juan Carlos Lopez is with me.
I don't know what to make of that because it could just as easily tomorrow be 50 percent tariffs. I'm going to do this, that and the other. But he
seems to want to reach the common ground. What do you -- you're much more experienced in this than myself. So what do you make of that?
LOPEZ: I mean, just from hearing President Trump, it sounds like they're best friends now. Surprisingly, President Petro is traditionally he's
always late for his press conferences, and he hasn't started his in D.C., but through social media and an interview he granted over Colombian radio,
he talked about the meeting. He said it was very positive.
They talked about sanctions, about different issues, about Trump mediating with Ecuador. They're in this big tariff dispute between Colombia and
Ecuador. So apparently Petro said it was nine out of 10, given what he was expecting before the meeting. So, so far, so good. But as you said, things
could change. And tomorrow, they could be completely different.
QUEST: But the thing here is, because the fundamental allegation was that Petro is a narco terrorist almost, that he has promoted the drug industry
in the country, and exported the drugs to the United States. Now, until President Trump either says I was wrong or that's not true, that accusation
hangs over regardless.
LOPEZ: Well, you know that expression I was wrong is not in his vocabulary. So that's not something he's going to do.
QUEST: Sure.
LOPEZ: But let's just look back to what happened in the last couple of months. He pardoned the former president of Honduras, Juan Orlando
Hernandez, who was convicted in a court -- in a trial of trafficking over 400 tons of cocaine to the United States and receiving money from the
cartels. And he said that he was blamed because he was a president of a country where there were drug dealers, so he could go easily depending on
how he sees it, fits his interest and the U.S. interest. And right now, apparently there are things they are talking about that he seemed -- that
he sees will benefit the U.S.
QUEST: Just to clarify, with your experience, these accusations against the Colombian president, I mean, do they hold any water in the sense that back
home there are also those saying the same things? This isn't just the U.S. coming up with something.
LOPEZ: No, they don't really hold any ground. President Petro is the president of the country that produces the largest amount of coca leaf and
cocaine in the world, and the drug trade permeates the whole society and the economy. But there are no -- there is no credible evidence that Petro
is involved in the trade, or that Petro benefits from the trade.
His government has been fighting the drug cartels with a different strategy. His proposal was going after the economy behind drug trafficking.
But still, Colombia is still the largest producer. This was more political, and this is more what President Trump got from people close to him that had
a different perspective on Colombia. But no, President Petro is a lot of things, and he has a lot of critics, but there is no evidence that he's
involved in the drug trade.
QUEST: Right. Now, I don't think you're getting away that easily. We also - - we're going to squeeze the asset, as we say in the business world. We had a Pedro Sanchez, the Spanish prime minister, as you will have heard, and he
says that the U.S. is making a mistake. He calls President Trump's policies vis a vis Venezuela a mistake. He's the first one, really, a European to
have said it in quite such blunt terms.
Obviously, Venezuela and Spain have history. How do you regard what Spain's position is?
LOPEZ: It's interesting because Colombia has also a very close relationship with Venezuela. And one of the things that apparently talked about was
lifting sanctions so that Colombia can import liquefied gas from Venezuela. Many links. Is it a mistake or not? We'll see. There's this whole debate
about keeping the same people that were in power with Maduro, and that's going to give a transition in Venezuela. We'll see how that works out or
talks about what's happening in Cuba.
QUEST: Right.
LOPEZ: So it's too soon to tell.
QUEST: I'm grateful, sir. Thank you very much indeed.
We will return to Donald Trump, who's now talking about the Epstein files and answering questions.
[16:55:03]
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: For you and maybe for Mr. Speaker as well.
TRUMP: I'm so proud of the health care savings accounts because it's going to happen. And hopefully instead of insurance, and I hope this happens and
I hope you guys can do it. Let the insurance companies not do quite as well. You know, they're going up 15 percent, 16 percent, 17 percent, 100
percent. Think of it. The money should be paid directly to the people. You know, trillions of dollars goes out.
The money should go to the people. They should buy their own health care. It can be in a health care, you know, account, savings account, any account
you want to make. The money should go to the people. The people should buy their own health care, and they're going to save a lot of money, and
they're going to have much better health care. And it's very simple.
The problem is the Democrats are owned by those insurance companies. They're owned, lock, stock and barrel. And the Democrats will never vote on
it because the Republicans should get that through. And you know how you get it through? The filibuster. Get rid of the filibuster and start voting.
Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Mr. President, today we heard that the Clintons' set deposition dates to testify before the House Oversight Committee. Any
reaction to that in related to the Epstein?
TRUMP: I think it's a shame, to be honest. I always liked him, her, yes. She's a very capable woman. She was better in debating than some of the
other people. I will tell you that. She was smarter. Smart woman. I hate to say it in many ways. I hate to see it, but, you know, then I look at me,
they went after me like, you know, they wanted me to go to jail for the rest of my life. Then it turned out I was innocent, very innocent.
You know, I had a friend that said, a very smart friend, very wealthy man, knows the life. Street wise guy. He said, you have to be the most honest
person anywhere in the world, because there's never been anybody who's been examined up and down. You know, I have hundreds of thousands of pages of
documents, millions of pages, millions of pages. With all of that, they found absolutely nothing wrong.
Remember, his tax returns, oh, his tax returns. They fought for years and years and then the Supreme Court. I was surprised. They ruled I had to give
him a tax returns. I'm the only one that had ever do that. But I had to give my tax returns. I gave my tax returns. They hired the best accounting
firms in the world. They found nothing. And this friend of mine said, you have to be the most honest person in the world. He actually said, you know,
I'm, referring to him --
QUEST: I know we will leave Donald Trump speaking. Very, very quick "Profitable Moment" just to pull the strands of today.
It's been fascinating throughout the course of the day, as we saw what's happening with the Epstein files, whether it be Peter Mandelson, Prince
Edward having to defend onwards and upwards. But at the end of the day, it always comes back to the victims. The message of the victims.
And that's QUEST MEANS BUSINESS for tonight. I'm Richard Quest in Dubai. Whatever you're up to, I hope it's profitable.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
END
