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Quest Means Business
Tech Sell Off Accelerates as Chipmakers Come Under Scrutiny; Bill Gates: I was Foolish to Spend Time with Epstein; Pena: U.S. Controlling Venezuela Not Sustainable; Interview with Emaar Properties Founder Mohamed Alabbar; Emirates Scaling Plans to Prepare for Market Growth; LATAM Airlines Sees Growth Opportunities in South America; Restoring Lost Species Through Biotech. Aired 4-5p ET
Aired February 04, 2026 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[16:00:20]
RICHARD QUEST, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST, "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS": Closing bell ringing on Wall Street. There you see a radiant reading of the closing
bell. It is a pretty awful day, one way or another, and look, the number we are going to show you now doesn't show you the whole story. That is the
Dow. But once he has done the closing -- once he has done the gavel, one and a two and a one, two, three, four. There you are. And you see the
NASDAQ, another day of sharp falls of the NASDAQ, off over 1.5 percent Both the S&P and the NASDAQ down. The Dow is up. We will talk more about it in a
moment.
Those are the markets. And these are the main events. And this is the reason why the markets: A poor forecast from AMD is sending chip stocks
falling. It is worsening a painful week for tech. We will understand why.
A government agency is investigating Nike over alleged discrimination against White employees.
And the developer of the Burj Khalifa, the world's tallest building will be with me tonight here in Dubai. For most of you, it remains Wednesday,
February the 4th; in Dubai we have grande elegante, we have slipped into Thursday. I am Richard Quest, whatever the day, I certainly mean business.
Good evening.
Tonight, again we are in Dubai. It is day two of the World Governments Summit. And boy, we have a smorgasbord. Look at that. Just enjoy that for a
second. Just enjoy that view.
It is the view of the hotel and part of the Jumeirah Group behind that. That is the Burj Al Arab, their signature building now here in Dubai. It is
-- that's heliport, of course, at the top. Someday I will tell you about the story of flying off that heliport and the stomach churning -- anyway,
let's move on.
The smorgasbord of presidents, chief executives and tech innovators. We will be discussing the future of Venezuela with the president of Paraguay.
You'll hear about the state of aviation with Emirates' Sir Tim Clark and LATAM's chief Roberto Alvo and I will be joined by the man who helped shape
Dubai's skyline from Emaar, the developer, Mohamed Alabbar will be with us live, very kindly staying up late.
First of all, tonight, the selloff in the tech sector accelerates as the chip stocks are under tremendous pressure. AMD shares fell 17 percent. The
company beat earnings expectations. Its outlook did not satisfy. Others like Broadcom and NVIDIA were also sharply lower, but not by any means as
much.
And software company stocks continued to fall. Palantir, down 12 percent. for the NASDAQ, it is the fourth losing session over the last five trading
days.
Clare Duffy is with me. We need to understand why. There are really two reasons. First of all, we have these results, which were okay. They don't
justify what we are seeing, but it comes on the back of this other problem from Anthropic, which also has created issues. Tell me more about it all.
CLARE DUFFY, CNN BUSINESS WRITER: Yes, Richard, it is interesting because these are almost conflicting issues here. On the one hand, as you said,
we've got these concerns that we've heard before about the sky high valuations of companies like AMD and Palantir. These questions about when
and how soon we will see returns that are going to justify those valuations. We've been hearing that about A.I. companies.
But this other concern is about whether this new tool from Anthropic could undermine existing software companies. This tool called Claude Cowork,
basically is like an A.I. coworker. It can read and organize your files, it can draft documents for you. They've built plugins for specific industries
like sales, finance, data marketing, legal and the concern really is that if it is easier for companies to build their own software tools with this
A.I. system that already has access to all of their files and documents, that they might not need to rely on software as a service companies, which
have really become the bread and butter of much of Silicon Valley.
These companies like, you know, like Thomson Reuters and these other companies that provide legal and data analytics services to companies, they
could potentially just build them themselves with new A.I. tools like Claude Cowork.
QUEST: So, right. But what is interesting also about this Cowork is something like 70 to 80 percent of it was written by itself.
DUFFY: Yes.
QUEST: So, apparently it actually did most of the work and here is what though -- here is what I find -- if this is successful, surely I understand
the existing players get clobbered, but this is not a bad news story in a sense, because a whole range of new companies selling these things will be
the beneficiaries.
This is more rotation in a sense, between some companies and others.
[16:05:21]
DUFFY: I think that's largely right. It is really interesting that on one hand, you have these concerns about whether A.I. investments are going to
pay off, whether were going to see value from incorporating A.I. technology. But then if we do, you are going to see all of these other
software companies that aren't A.I. companies potentially, you know, be in a bad spot because of that.
And so, it is interesting, this tension that we are seeing. But I will say, I do think it is worth noting that it is not necessarily so easy for big
companies, especially in regulated industries like finance or legal, to just incorporate a new A.I. system. There are all of these concerns about
how do you protect data, how do you make sure the right people don't get -- don't have access to the wrong data?
And so I think that is the thing that is going to make it harder for companies to incorporate this. It is not to say that they won't, but it
might not happen quite as quickly as people think it will.
QUEST: Clare, I am grateful you're in New York. It is 4:00 in the afternoon. Five past four, I am here in Dubai. It is five past one in the
morning. I am grateful. Thank you.
DUFFY: Thank you.
QUEST: Bill Gates has called his relationship with the convicted sex offender, Jeffrey Epstein foolish. The latest documents are raising further
questions. Unclear who wrote what looks like a draft message from 2013 in Epstein's e-mail account.
Now, this draft appears to discuss feelings of betrayal by Gates, marital discord and soured business ventures. The Microsoft co-founder has not been
accused of any wrongdoing relating to Epstein.
Speaking to CNN affiliate 9 News in Australia, Bill Gates denies the claims.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BILL GATES, PHILANTHROPIST, MICROSOFT CO-FOUNDER: That e-mail was never sent. The e-mail is false, so I don't know what his thinking was there. It
just reminds me every minute I spent with him I regret and I apologize that I did that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
QUEST: Now, Melinda French Gates, his ex-wife, opened up to National Public Radio, NPR earlier this week about her ex-husband's involvement with
Epstein. She said, the release of these documents, which she described as muck, a stack of muck, brought back memories of painful times during their
27-year-long marriage.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MELINDA FRENCH GATES, PHILANTHROPIST: It is just sadness, sadness for -- you know, I've left -- I had -- I left my marriage, I had to leave my
marriage. I wanted to leave my marriage. I had to leave.
I felt I needed to eventually leave the foundation. For me, I've been able to move on in life, and I hope there is some justice for those now women.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
QUEST: Stephen -- Stephen Collinson is with me in Washington. In that interview, she just described it as muck. I mean, she is not referring to
the accusations or indeed denying it. She is basically describing the entire sleazebag of material that is coming out of the Epstein -- the
tawdry, revolting nature of much of what is coming out.
But here we have Gates specifically saying, I did nothing wrong, and there so far is no allegation that he did. Other than that, as I say, some of
this rather salaciousness that with his wife.
STEPHEN COLLINSON, CNN POLITICS SENIOR REPORTER: Yes. And I think what you are seeing here, in the absence of what you're seeing in the U.K. which is
the machinery of accountability and investigation taking off; in the United States, President Trump wants to get away from this. The Republican
Congress doesn't really want to push him. So, the focus is coming on a lot of these people who were named in the Epstein files to talk about what they
knew about the situation, to talk about the allegations or, suppositions about them, talk about what Epstein said about them in the e-mails.
So that is almost filling the vacuum, if you like. And I think Melinda Gates, when she came out yesterday and said that it was up to her husband
now to address this, I think, she is talking for a lot of people and many of the victims who believe that they're not going to get justice here,
especially since the administration said at the weekend that there is going to be no more charges. So, where does this now story go?
And I think it is narrowing in on this question of not just whether people did something nefarious. And as you said, there is no evidence that Bill
Gates did anything criminally wrong, but what did all of these people who continue to see Epstein after he came out of prison in 2009, what did they
know? Are these sophisticated, smart masters of the universe that he was interacting with? Do they really not have any suspicion of what is going
on?
And if they do, do they owe some kind of self-reflection and some kind of obligation to Epstein's victims?
[16:10:07]
QUEST: And even if they didn't know or had no real reason, because a lot of this stuff is tangential in a sense, it begs the core question, which is
what we were talking about on this program last week, is what were you thinking maintaining the contact with somebody who you knew had a past of
such behavior?
COLLINSON: Exactly. And what I found most interesting as you wade through this mountain of e-mails is not so much the stuff that we kind of knew
about Epstein, about the allegations against him that he was trafficking women and grooming women and abusing women, it is this amazing
international network. The people he is talking to -- diplomats, politicians, business people, getting people around his house to dinner.
This is in 2013, 2015, 2016, well, after everyone knew that he had a sex conviction in Florida and he spent time 13 months in jail for.
He is the center of this massive international nexus of famous, wealthy, powerful, rich people who he is trying to bring together. And that, I think
is so interesting. It tells us a little bit about how that world of philanthropy and high politics works, because he was able to try to match
up people with money to people who needed money for various projects.
But as you're saying, it does raise this question of surely, what were these people doing associating with someone? Is it just that he was wealthy
and influential and had money? Shouldn't there be another question that was asked at this point?
QUEST: I am grateful. Thank you, sir.
COLLINSON: Thanks.
QUEST: Stephen Collinson in Washington.
The United States has now returned $500 million to Venezuela from an initial sale of its oil, according to Reuters News Agency. The U.S.
official said the money is to be used for the benefit of the Venezuelan people. It will be dispersed at the discretion of the U.S. government.
Paraguay's president has now told me that the U.S. control of Venezuela is not sustainable. Still, Santiago Pena, the President, says it will take
time for real change.
I asked the President what he thought of the U.S. operation to remove Venezuela's President Nicolas Maduro.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SANTIAGO PENA, PARAGUAYAN PRESIDENT: Second best, second best. He was not the first best. I think the first best is what we proposed when I came to
office in 2023. I participated in the Barbados Accord.
We wanted to see free elections. It failed. It failed, and from that moment on, we started asking that maduro needs to leave. We asked him the good
way. He didn't accept it. So I think the second best was what the U.S. did was taking over. And we know the hard way, Paraguay, we know that
dictators, they don't go with pamphlets and manifestation in the streets. They usually go on coup or with guns.
QUEST: Right. But the result of maduro going in that way, it is a really tricky one because everybody says, well, good riddance. What is gone is
best gone. But nobody really wants a hegemony of the United States.
PENA: No!
QUEST: Running it from Washington as President Trump has particularly said.
PENA: No, no, no. I think what they are telling us, and I agree, we need to be patient. It is not that after 26 years of a single regime, you cannot
just remove everybody and bring new people. It is going to take time.
And again, I give you the example of Paraguay -- from the removal of the dictator in 1889 to having free elections, it took four years. A new
Constitution, free elections, the first civilian government in, I don't know, 50 years.
QUEST: How do you prevent, if you will, a colonization again, or at least even the appearance of a colonization where, yes, you put a puppet
government in, but the U.S. is really there pulling the strings.
PENA: It is not going to be sustainable because --
QUEST: You think not?
PENA: No, I don't think -- I mean, we cannot do it right away. It is not going to happen in 90 days, in one year, but we need to draw a plan for the
next 24 months. What is going to happen? They need to stabilize. They need to do changes. They need to free the people who has been incarcerated. They
need to allow Venezuelans to return to Venezuela, and of course, strengthen the institutions that will organize an election.
QUEST: Right. But this is all interesting because the E.U. has just done a deal with Mercosur.
PENA: Yes.
QUEST: I always think, you know, whenever people mention Mercosur in the past, I had to look it up. But I have to remind myself, which countries are
part of it, and see, I had to wonder whether it was actually worthwhile in the first place.
PENA: Yes.
QUEST: Now, the E.U. has done a deal with Mercosur and your view is get on with it, implement it.
PENA: Yes, absolutely. After 25 years of negotiations, and we need to thank President Trump, because I think that the Europeans start to move faster in
having this deal agreed, so we have reached to this point that now we have signed and we are in the process. Paraguay will be the first country,
probably to get approval because we have already submitted to Congress and the Europeans are already also in the process of implementation.
[16:15:10 ]
So, I think all the noise that has come from the U.S. and President Trump on tariff, that has also helped a lot of countries and regions like
Mercosur to advance in these agreements.
QUEST: I want to talk about Mark Carney's speech at Davos.
PENA: Yes.
QUEST: He basically said, let's call it for what it is.
PENA: Yes.
QUEST: Big, big countries will do what they want, and we must no longer be blinded by it. That's very much what you have to live with.
Now, you know whether we would call you a middle power or a lower middle power. It doesn't really matter. He also said, you're going -- lower powers
are going to have to use global variability. You're going to have to choose different partners at different times in different ways. How are you
adapting to that?
PENA: I fully agree with that. I think that Canada and his speech is very clear that there is no free ride anymore. You cannot rely on the assurance
from the past. You need to rely on what are your strengths today and what are the plans that you have going forward.
So, I identify Paraguay as a middle power. I think that middle power has the advantage that we are not poor countries. We have already passed that
stage of underdeveloped, and we don't have to face the problem of very large countries, populations of 100 million to 200 million. So, we can be
the pivot between these two groups of parties. The less developed and the larger countries. I think Paraguay is in a particular success position to
achieve that goal.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
QUEST: The President of Paraguay talking to me earlier.
A U.S. federal agency is probing Nike over alleged discrimination against White employees. We will talk about that next, QUEST MEANS BUSINESS tonight
live in Dubai.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
QUEST: In the United States, a federal agency is investigating Nike over alleged discrimination against White employees. It is the EEOC, the Equal
Employment Opportunity Commission, that says the company's diversity, equity and inclusion initiatives are a focus of the probe. We've reached
out to the company for comment.
Joey Jackson is in New York, and it is hard to -- bearing in mind, Joey, the anti-woke agenda of the current administration. It is hard to know how
much of this is being promoted and pushed forward by an agenda from the administration versus a genuine complaint that needs investigating.
JOEY JACKSON, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Yes, Richard, I think that it is not that hard. I think it is pretty simple. And if you look at other measures that
this administration has taken, it seems blatantly obvious that that's the case.
[16:20:07]
Let's look at the Smithsonian and the real dismantling of any exhibit that would mirror American history relating to slavery and other activities and
as if you're rewriting the history.
Let's look at the banning of certain books, including a book by Ruth Bader Ginsburg, by the way, in schools that relate to the military. Let's look at
the attack on the higher education in this country, particularly going after Harvard, telling them who they could hire, who they could fire, who
they could admit in terms of students, et cetera.
Let's look at the immigration policies in terms of who they want in the country and who they do not. I could go on, Richard, all night. What I am
saying to you is that it seems to be that this administration is very hostile to anything Black and Brown, I am not being inflammatory, I am just
being factual. I just gave you specific examples as to that.
QUEST: So, taking the premise of your point, is this designed to get them to settle as so many other organizations have? It is only -- from what I
can remember, you know, at the moment we are only talking about Harvard that is holding out, and now, we know the President is going for a billion
or says he is going for a billion from them.
But is this design, do you think, to get Nike to agree to come to the table and do a deal?
JACKSON: No, I think it is designed in way bigger, Richard than Nike. This is to set the standard and the table for anyone in corporate America to let
it be known that DEI is disfavored, diversity, equity, inclusion is no more that if you attempt to have any programs relating to or favorable to
applicants that are non-White, that you better be ready to face the wrath of the administration, and so it doesn't only relate to Nike. I think Nike
is the punching bag, just like by analogy, Harvard was the punching bag relating to the many institutions of higher learning the administration has
gone up against saying, hey, it is a woke agenda. Can't teach that up, cant admit that student, can't hire that faculty member.
And so if you do an enforcement action like this and lets just be clear, to get the legalese out of the way very briefly, Richard, this is -- we are
going to subpoena you as they did. The EEOC is the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission. This is the commission that enforces the Civil
Rights Act of 1964.
The irony of this is that the Civil Rights Act of 1964, introduced by President Kennedy, he was assassinated, but then passed under President
Lyndon Baines Johnson, was because African Americans were having the toughest of times finding employment, getting things on the table, getting
food on the table for their families. So they said, you know what? We are going to pass this Act, after it was filibustered for 72 days, by the way,
fascinating fact, by the south, which was really about slavery and then it passed.
And so, it is being turned on its head, no more is it going to be used for supporting and uplifting people of color. Now, everybody can now sue. And
this is what this is.
So an answer to your question. This is part of a broader agenda. And this says to anybody in corporate America, not only Nike, that if you try to
institute any program that is not colorblind, then we are going to go after you and that's what I think in essence, this is all about.
QUEST: Joey, I am grateful. Thank you, sir.
JACKSON: Thanks, Richard.
QUEST: Reporters at "The Washington Post," one of America's top newspapers, learned today of massive job cuts following about a third of the staff has
been laid off. The executive editor, Matt Murray, said the newsroom cuts will be substantial and impact nearly every department.
You will be aware, of course, "The Washington Post" is owned by Jeff Bezos, one of the world's richest men. "The Post's" employees learned of the
changes over a Zoom meeting, though it has been widely speculated.
One former staffer wrote this week, "Bezos is not trying to save 'the Washington Post,' he is trying to survive Donald Trump."
Brian Stelter is with me.
Brian, "The Washington Post" has been losing money. It sort of did quite well for a while. And then even under Bezos, it did quite well for a while.
Then it changed its policies. It is now losing -- not -- I mean, by your -- by our standards, you and mine, yes, a lot of money, but by Jeff Bezos not.
So what is really behind this?
BRIAN STELTER, CNN CHIEF MEDIA ANALYST: This is what I often hear from staffers at "The Post." They say Bezos can handle these losses. Yes, there
have been years of millions of dollars of losses, tens of millions of dollars of losses, but if anybody can swallow it, it is Jeff Bezos. But he
is insistent he wants the paper to return to profitability.
The question becomes how? How do you do that? And can "The Post" find a sustainable path? Can the publisher, Will Lewis, who Bezos installed to do
that, does he actually have a plan? And many staffers and now ex-staffers are doubtful about that.
I have never seen morale so low at "The Post," but I've also never seen a cut this severe, one in three staffers, entire sections being closed. "The
Post" says it is going to try to rebuild by focusing on its core in Washington, D.C., the politics desk.
[16:25:10]
But they are also laying off lots of Metro reporters who cover D.C., so it is very hard to see a path forward for this paper. "The New York Times"
figured it out, but on almost every other paper has yet to figure out how to move from print to digital and grow its subscription base, and when it
comes to "The Washington Post," Jeff Bezos probably made a bad thing worse because of his decisions in the past couple of years to try to turn the
opinion pages in a direction that was more favorable to Trump. That's why you have ex-staffers saying this seems like Bezos trying to curry favor
with Trump to help Amazon-Blue Origin at the cost of "The Washington Post" -- Richard.
QUEST: Brian, I am grateful. Thank you. Brian Stelter, joining me.
Now, the Burj Khalifa is a focal point of the skyline here in Dubai and for very good reason. It is the tallest building in the world. It is absolutely
spectacular. Theres no question about it.
So after the break, we are going to speak to the head of its development company about where he is going to look next. How do you trump yourself and
your products and your developments after that? QUEST MEANS BUSINESS.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
QUEST: I am Richard Quest. There will be a lot more QUEST MEANS BUSINESS in a moment. We are going to hear from the president of Emirates, Sir Tim
Clark. I will ask the CEO of Colossal Biosciences, his company is reviving extinct animals like the dire wolf using genetic samples. What's next? What
about a dinosaur? Why can you not do a dinosaur? You'll find out on this program. We will all get to it.
This is CNN and on this network, the news always comes first.
It appears the Trump administration is trying to calm some of the anger over federal officers' presence in Minnesota. The President's border czar,
Tom Homan today announced he is reducing the number of immigration agents in Minneapolis by 700. It is believed, there were 3,000 there. Even after
the drawdown, there was still around 2,000 deployed.
President Trump says Iran's Supreme Leader Ali Khamenei should be very worried. The President's comments come to NBC only two days before the two
countries are due to meet for nuclear talks in Oman. Tensions have escalated between Washington and Tehran, with a U.S. Carrier Strike Group
already in the region.
British lawmakers have agreed to release documents on the appointment of Peter Mandelson as the country's ambassador in Washington. Prime Minister
Keir Starmer says Mandelson lied repeatedly about his ties with Jeffrey Epstein before his appointment. Mandelson was fired from the role last
year, now under criminal investigation, for allegedly leaking government information to Epstein.
[16:30:53]
Futuristic, graceful, elegant. Something out of science fiction the way the petals, which it's what it's designed to look like, the petals of a
particular plant. Absolutely spectacular. The Burj Khalifa, an iconic part of Dubai skyline and the tallest building in the world. Some might think
its developer Emaar Properties will have a hard time building anything on top of that.
The founder, Mohamed Alabbar, says he's already has his sights on his next move. He wants to launch projects in big countries like the U.S., China and
parts of Europe. Alibaba's other development firm is already entering new markets. Its first phase of residential projects in Tbilisi in Georgia
fully sold out this week.
Mohamed Alabbar is with me now. He's the founder and managing Emaar. He's also the chairman of real estate developer Eagle Hills.
Sir, first of all, you get a kudos for turning up at 1:30 in the morning.
MOHAMED ALABBAR, FOUNDER AND MANAGING DIRECTOR, EMAAR PROPERTIES: Only for you, Richard. Only for you.
QUEST: We're very grateful. That, look, when we look at the Burj Khalifa and we look at the properties that you've done, you've been very successful
here. Where do you go next? Because you lost a lot of money once in the U.S. and there's the potential to do it again if one is not careful.
ALABBAR: I think we have -- we made enough mistakes. Maybe this time we can do it right.
QUEST: Right. But what is next?
ALABBAR: Well, next, to be honest with you, just after 29 years, almost of running the company, I think the, you know, the balance sheet of the
company, the low debt level, cash level, I think we are ready to really go international and definitely look at the U.S., look at Europe, look at --
as well Asia. But then in different sectors. We are, you know, we are big in retail. We're big in hospitality, big in development.
And maybe we invest with other developers. We don't want to do the business ourselves, but we like to go and invest in other good operators.
QUEST: You're very concerned on the question of affordability, housing affordability, which is somewhat, you know, some would say there's an irony
there considering the expensive properties that you build here and many of the properties and the properties are here. How do you square that circle?
ALABBAR: Well, it's very simple. You know, myself and 12 brothers and sisters, my mother and father in one room. I don't forget that. And the two
cows outside the room. You know, I come from there. And no matter how big you become, I think we, as good human beings, we need to go back. And this
is a very serious matter for the whole world. And we need to at least discuss it. The shortage of housing, you know, it's -- I mean, housing
contributes 50 percent to almost 45 percent of the, you know, it has effect on inflation and so on. So we need to sort this one out.
QUEST: And you can see it all over the world, whether it's in Lisbon with more people, with expats buying in, whether it's here with very expensive
properties.
ALABBAR: Yes.
QUEST: And some places like Singapore, of course, have the public housing sector.
ALABBAR: Yes. HDB, yes.
QUEST: Which provides housing and is highly successful. Is that a workable model on larger scale?
ALABBAR: Well, again, Singapore is a good model. I think Vienna and Austria has a good model. China have done well. But, you know, if you go to India,
I think Modi is putting great, great policies in there and you need available land, you need policies, and a bit of, you know, soft loans and
subsidy, but you have to be serious about it.
Richard, this is not an easy problem to solve, but you must solve it.
QUEST: You've said that going public was one of the biggest mistakes you've made because of the quarterly reporting season. Tonight, we're reporting
AMD's excellent good earnings. The stocks down 17 percent. Time and again the market goes -- punishes earnings reports.
If you had your time again would you not have gone public? And would you ever consider going private again?
ALABBAR: I would probably consider going private again. I would --
QUEST: Is it on your mind?
ALABBAR: It is on my mind. But the organization is 70 percent public. So that's a big issue. And the reason is that I'm not interested in short-term
quarterly business.
[16:35:01]
You know, real estate is a long-term business. And I really think that real estate companies, maybe for me and in the Middle East, we should have been
private.
QUEST: And the point is the success in the region is because the rulers don't have to worry about the next election. They don't have to worry about
quarterly reporting season. That's a problem when you go bigger overseas.
ALABBAR: I don't know, I think, I think if I go back to that point, I think the worry about the next election, you know, our leaders are worried about
the next construction instead of the next election.
QUEST: Right. But what I mean is, it's the ability to think long term. I think it's the ability --
ALABBAR: I think it's --
QUEST: It's the ability to --
ALABBAR: But it's in your business as well. You need to think long term. I need to think long term. This business of short doesn't work for our
society, really. For security it doesn't work, for education. It doesn't work for housing. It doesn't work.
QUEST: We're stuck with it.
ALABBAR: Well, I'm saying somebody smart like A.I. will solve it.
QUEST: You think so?
ALABBAR: I think A.I. can really run the election much better.
QUEST: I'm very grateful to you for joining us tonight. Thank you for coming along this evening.
ALABBAR: Thanks so much, Richard. Thank you.
QUEST: Thank you.
We stay in the region. The International Air Transport Association, IATA, expects airlines here to drive aviation profits this year. Demand for long
haul flights and the amount of investment coming. Emirates president Sir Tim Clark is seeing this growth firsthand. And Sir Tim, who's always as
forthright as our last guest, he told me that all the major players are getting ready.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TIM CLARK, PRESIDENT, EMIRATES: We have all scaled our plans. We've all ordered aircraft. Thank goodness the manufacturers have got some stable
that is actually demanding thoroughbreds all the time. And large numbers of them. So how we -- how that morphs in the fullness of time is going to be
anybody's guess.
QUEST: Right. But then in that now the stability is there. How are you shifting or changing your strategy vis a vis your brethren competitors in
the region?
CLARK: No, no, Richard. We've been asked that for 30 years.
QUEST: Well, you know, I think --
CLARK: No, we're not.
QUEST: I'm hoping.
CLARK: We don't need to do that. Surprisingly, and I've said this for decades again, the markets in all our spheres of operation, that's all the
big three are growing all the time. If you ask GATA what its seat factor is on a system day by day, if you ask Antonoaldo running Etihad what his seat
factors are, and you ask us, you all find they're probably in the high 70s to mid-80s. And we're all growing our capacity all the time.
We're all flying in parallel. We're all competing in parallel on the same city. But have you seen a decline in those market shares and the number of
people in the seat factors over time? On the contrary, the Emirates, our profits have gone up almost nuclear in the last five to seven years post-
COVID. So --
QUEST: Without discounting.
CLARK: Without discounting. We kind of --
QUEST: You're filling the planes.
CLARK: Well, you know, I've got to be a bit careful what I say about pricing because, you know, it's -- but we offer a very good value for money
proposition. Yes, the fares are higher than they ever used to be. More people are traveling at the higher fares and they're traveling more often.
So that's -- we've hit the sweet spot.
QUEST: The triple sevens. You've -- they're late we know. They are looking at live next year. Are you confident you'll get them next year, '27?
CLARK: Well, put it this way. At the moment we are -- we've built quite a large buffer as to the completion of the certification program when we will
receive them. That's about a six-month buffer. So I'm hoping, yes, we will get them in the time that we have agreed with Boeing, which is next year,
second quarter.
QUEST: And once they start coming, they'll start coming quite quickly.
CLARK: That I don't know.
QUEST: Really?
CLARK: OK? The ramp up that Boeing has to take on, given the multiplicity of clients that they have and the numbers that they have to fit into a
compressed delivery schedule and their ability to ramp up their factories to be able to do it. Remember that a lot of these first aircraft are what
we call heads of versions. So they've all got to go through a high degree of build quality control, all the other bits and pieces.
So if you talk to Boeing, you'll probably find they were going two, three a month initially going up to six or seven, maybe eventually going up to 10
or 12. But then you look at the backlog of order, which is pushing 600 aircraft, and with whatever they do, unless they create a second line, this
is going to be a herculean task to get the initial orders out by the first few years of the next decade.
QUEST: I can't decide whether I'm hearing frustration, weariness, or acceptance in your voice.
CLARK: In the end, it's a bit of both. You, actually, there are three things you mentioned there. One, we are accepting the situation as it is.
[16:40:03]
There's not a lot we can do about it. There's no point, you know, crying over spilled milk. Secondly, the ability for us to look at what we have and
develop that given the assets that we have and how we're converting those. Frustration, yes, because in my career I've never seen aircraft gestation
cycles to be as long as these.
And in this case, the 777, there are multiple reasons for that. But the whole business, from concept to execution, implementation of new aircraft,
is taking forever.
QUEST: The stability that we've just talked about, is this a good moment for you to consider your position? You know, you knew it was coming.
CLARK: I'm always considering my position. I, you know, we -- what I'm trying to do at the moment is get, as I've said this many times, get the
airline into a state with a succession plan and a plan going forward, which we have got with the new airport being built and designed largely by us, is
we're having this ready.
So when the shareholder makes the call as to what's going to happen next, at least they've got a platform which they can -- they know they'll be
successful whoever is running it. That's the plan. So that doesn't answer the question.
QUEST: It really doesn't.
CLARK: And as usual I will duck it. I'm going tomorrow or next year or next week or whatever. But in the end, I'm at an age where most people are long
since gone. Certainly in our business, because it's essentially a young man's business, so, you know, that recognition by the shareholders got to
take place. I'm sure they're fully aware of it. And I'm trying to get a team of people at all levels in the business to ready to move up and step
up when this thing happens.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
QUEST: I think that's the first time I've heard Sir Tim put it quite like that, and in such detail about the strategy that he's employing in terms of
his retirement. But it doesn't sound like it's coming a week next Thursday. So always good to talk to Sir Tim here.
Coming up next, let's spin the globe. The LATAM Airlines Group chief executive had a record year of profits, a massive restructuring, Latin
American behemoth of a carrier. QUEST MEANS BUSINESS.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
QUEST: LATAM Airlines, you'll recall, is the product of land and tam, and now it's building on its success from last year. Net income increased
nearly 50 percent, $1.5 billion.
[16:45:07]
Now, I spoke to Chief Executive Roberto Alvo how to keep that growth. We spoke yesterday just about an hour or two before the earnings came out so
he wasn't able to even give me a hint of what was to come. But he certainly gave me a good idea of how well the carrier is performing.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ROBERTO ALVO, CEO, LATAM AIRLINES GROUP: Today the problem is not about a single market or no. The countries are very open. We can fly pretty much
everywhere. I guess the problem today is that it's still a relatively poor area of the world. You see? So airlines, we have the number of passengers
per capita that the U.S. or Europe used to have in the '80s. And this is because we're relatively poor economies, you see.
So -- but the potential for growth is huge. It's about accessibility and infrastructure. But it's not necessarily about anything else. It's just
that we still are developing economies where the potential for growth is huge. South America actually, if you look at Airbus or Boeing figures, is
the region of the world that is proud to grow the most in the next 30 years.
QUEST: What is it that you need?
ALVO: We need good public policies. We need countries that actually look at the development of the industry in 20 or 30 years. Chile is a good example.
Chile has a very good state development project. And they basically said three things. Let's open our economy, let's build infrastructure, and let's
have low minimum government intervention. And Chile today has twice the number of passengers than the average of the other countries in the region.
QUEST: Do you think there's room for more consolidation without harming competition?
ALVO: Yes, I think in our case we don't have a problem with competition and we are looking forward to basically develop the business we have. LATAM is
today 25 percent larger than before the pandemic, and I don't think we need in our particular case further consolidation, although there are companies
that are trying to do it and it's fine. We will compete with whomever there is. But I think that the most important thing is how do we develop the
potential we have in our industry?
QUEST: I want to just focus a bit more on that because, as you look at your alliances of which have shifted, as you look at your alliances, where do
you see your natural growth areas?
ALVO: It's within the region and outside of the region. So Latin America is very poorly connected still. 400 million people, as I told you, and there's
some cities, there's 200 cities in South America between 200,000 and 500,000 people that have almost no connectivity.
QUEST: And long haul?
ALVO: Long haul as well, although the large centers like Sao Paulo, Lima, Santiago, have good connectivity. The problem is the interior today.
QUEST: That's a very difficult one to do, though.
ALVO: It is.
QUEST: Because of the things you said, the infrastructure, the costs, the whole -- the whole aviation ecosystem.
ALVO: It is. But I'm confident. I think, you know, Brazil is of the 10 top domestic markets in the world, the one that grew the most in 2025. The
potential is there.
QUEST: Let's talk about Venezuela.
ALVO: Yes.
QUEST: Again, I keep thinking of what President Trump says about opportunities. And then I hear what Exxon's CEO says about it's
uninvestable at the moment. You sort of come somewhere in the middle, I imagine, in that you can see the opportunities, but you don't want to lose
your shirt again.
ALVO: Let me give you a figure. 25 years ago, Venezuela and Colombia were more or less of the same size in terms of the aviation industry. Today,
well, the numbers are not so easy to get, but Colombia is 25 percent, 25 times larger than Venezuela. So basically Venezuela is open space. It's
like a new country. It's like a new market. And the geography is really good.
QUEST: But are you prepared to be risky? Are you prepared to be a leader in moving back in there? When the time -- when it's available, are you
prepared to do that?
ALVO: If the conditions are there, we will look very seriously into it.
QUEST: What are those conditions?
ALVO: I think that the ability to really invest, set up an organization there, an airline, and have the permits and the stability to connect.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
QUEST: The head of LATAM.
A biotech company says it might be able to bring back the dodo bird in as soon as five years. So if you can bring back the dodo, why not a dinosaur?
The CEO of Colossal Biosciences joins me.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:51:47]
QUEST: Cute. And there are the first dire wolves to have walked the earth in more than 10,000 years. A biotech company says it brought back the
species in 2024. It's called de-extinction. What an awful word.
Colossal Biosciences CEO Ben Lamm says he's creating modern-day Noah's Ark by restoring lost species.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BEN LAMM, CEO, COLOSSAL BIOSCIENCES: I think it's an opportunity to undo the sins of the past. Some of these animals have a cultural significance to
certain types of people. And then there's also an important ecological function that many of them play. It's just like existing species today. We
should care about existing species today and preserving them.
QUEST: Right. But, you know, there is an argument that would say in the natural course of evolution, some arrive, some become extinct, new ones
come along. You know this.
LAMM: That's true. That is 100 percent true. But what people don't sometimes forget about is that we are in the sixth mass extinction that we
-- so there's been five mass extinctions before us, but we as humans are accelerating that. Right? And so a lot of things that we're doing with like
deforestation and overfishing the ocean and pollution, we are accelerating the rate of extinction. And we have to figure out how we can out-innovate
the take that we have from nature.
QUEST: Besides the philosophical issue of extinction, is there a practical we need these beasts?
LAMM: Yes, we do need these beasts for a couple of reasons. Number one, many of them play a crucial role in their ecosystem. They're called
keystone species. So when you remove them, you'll get overpopulation of a species. You'll get certain types of fauna -- and flora and fauna. So
species of both birds and animals, but also like different types of plants can go extinct. And it can have this ripple effect.
But then secondly, there's also massive amounts of data that we sometimes lose, like species, like birds have significantly better immune systems
than us. So we should study that to see how it could also be applied to humans. So if you don't care about animals, you should care about animals
because they help humans.
QUEST: Right. We'll talk about de-extinction in a minute, but this conservation idea, which is the other part of the coin, which is often, I
mean, it's the less sexy bit.
LAMM: Yes. Yes. It does get the headlines.
QUEST: Like brining back dire wolves. Right.
LAMM: Yes, it does get the headlines like dire wolves and mammoths get a lot more headlines.
QUEST: So what do you do with conservation?
LAMM: So all the technologies that we develop on the path to de-extinction, we open source for conservation. But one of the things that we're
announcing here at the World Government Summit, which we thought was the right place to do it, is to build the world's first bio vault. There's not
an existing like the equivalent of the seed vault for seeds for animals, and we need to start backing up all life on earth because while
conservation works, it's not working at the speed of which we're eradicating species.
QUEST: When you say bio vault, I am -- I immediately said Noah's Ark. Two of each.
LAMM: It's very -- well, I guess we get a lot of the Jurassic Park reference. So I think people say, well, I guess half their business is
Jurassic Park and half their business is Noah's Ark. So I do think that we've heard -- we've seen a couple headlines today that are very Noah's
Ark. But it is true. It's like, how do we back up and preserve not just one of each, but how do we preserve as many as we can from a cell line
perspective? Because then we can preserve the genetic diversity.
QUEST: When you brought back the wolf, what was that like?
LAMM: It was --
QUEST: Come on.
LAMM: it was crazy.
QUEST: How did it feel to watch the thing be born?
[16:55:01]
LAMM: Yes. It -- I cried, I was emotional, I was actually in London, so I did it through Facetime. This is terrible.
QUEST: You couldn't even arrange your schedule to be back there?
LAMM: No, no. So I was in London launching our foundation. So when people were like, oh, we just love de-extinction. I was launching our Colossal
Foundation with $50 million to help launch saving species. And so I actually I did cry, but I was on Facetime.
QUEST: So now we come to the dodo, my favorite, because I went to Mauritius, I saw the dodo.
LAMM: It's the symbol of human caused extinction, right or wrong, like --
QUEST: It was the first one.
LAMM: Yes.
QUEST: It was the first mammal.
LAMM: Bird.
QUEST: It was the first bird that, or species, where man could trace extinction to man's activities.
LAMM: And we did exactly that.
QUEST: Right.
LAMM: Yes.
QUEST: Now, how long before you think a dodo?
LAMM: So we don't have a hard day. We've already said some crazy big goals out there for our mammoth and other projects. But what I will tell you is
in the next five to seven years, I'm very confident we'll have dodos back.
QUEST: Really?
LAMM: Yes.
QUEST: Now, I do need to ask this, even though I know the answer now because you told me five minutes ago. And are you going to bring back a
dinosaur? Because we do have bones from dinosaurs of millions of years ago. And --
LAMM: But they are rocks. They're fossils. And so --
QUEST: What? So there's -- hang on. Hang on. So there's no real bones of dinosaurs?
LAMM: There are fossilization of the bones that existed. Right? And so they're not real. They are real in the form of the fact that they exist.
But there's no DNA in them because they have become rocks. And so the oldest DNA we work with is about 1.3 million years old. It's on one of our
mammoth genomes. And so I'm, I don't like to say impossible, but I don't think it's likely we will ever find DNA that 65 million years old that's
intact enough that we could bring back the dinosaur. And that makes some people very sad and makes some people very happy.
QUEST: Which leads me to my final question. Coulda, shoulda woulda. If you could find it, would you? And should you bring back a dinosaur?
LAMM: So if advanced technology and advanced education, because they say that dinosaurs are like the gateway drugs for kids to science, and if we
made a small dinosaur that was not scary, and that's the DNA we find but knowing like today's like geopolitics, our luck would be like we only would
find like megalodon, right? And so we wouldn't do something like that. But if we ever did find a very small, happy little dinosaur that could inspire
kids and nations were excited about it, then, yes, sure, we'd work on it.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
QUEST: I'm waiting for the dodo. I'll have a "Profitable Moment" after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
QUEST: It's been that World Government Summit, such an eclectic mix of people and delighted to have brought them to you, which is why we're here
every year here in Dubai. It's such a jolly good time.
And that is QUEST MEANS BUSINESS. A short "Profitable Moment" for tonight. I'm Richard Quest in Dubai. Whatever you're up to in the hours ahead, I
hope it's profitable. I'll see you tomorrow.
END
