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Quest Means Business
U.S. Begins Blockade Of Iran's Ports After Peace Talks Fail; Trump: Gas Prices Might Be A Bit Higher In November; Voters Reject Orban, Hand Victory To Peter Magyar; United States Official: United States And Iran Still Engaged In Talks; United States Begins Blockade Of Iran's Ports After Peace Talks Fail; President Trump And Pope Leo Clash Over War In Iran; Judge Tosses Trump's Defamation Lawsuit Against WSJ. Aired 4-5p ET
Aired April 13, 2026 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[16:00:18]
MAX FOSTER, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST: Well, stocks have reversed early losses. They are now solidly in the green. The Dow is up about 300 points,
as you can see, those are the markets, and these are the main events though, the U.S. trying to blockade ships from Iranian ports in the Strait
of Hormuz. It is off to a pretty tricky start though.
Hungary's opposition is celebrating after ousting Viktor Orban in Sunday's election. I will speak to a former Hungarian lawmaker.
And the Pope says he is not afraid of U.S. President Donald Trump, as the two spar over the war with Iran.
Live from London. It is Monday, April the 13th. I am Max Foster, in for Richard Quest. This is QUEST MEANS BUSINESS.
good evening to you. Tonight, a U.S. naval blockade has taken effect in the Strait of Hormuz, so far, with pretty mixed results. Ship tracking data
show a sanctioned oil tanker passing through the Strait hours after the blockade began. The tanker in question is suspected by the U.S. of being
part of Iran's shadow fleet.
Earlier data showed traffic had thinned through the waterway. Trump ordered the blockade after talks collapsed this weekend between the U.S. and Iran,
a source says U.S. officials are discussing amongst themselves another potential in-person meeting.
In the meantime, Trump suggested the U.S. will ratchet up pressure on Tehran.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: We've been called this morning by the right people, the appropriate people, and they
want to work a deal. They would like to work a deal.
REPORTER: Is it your anticipation, Mr. President, that other countries will assist in this effort to blockade Iran and those --
TRUMP: Yes, other countries are going to also --
REPORTER: Which countries, sir?
TRUMP: We don't need other countries, frankly. But they've offered their services. We will let it -- we will it be known probably tomorrow.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FOSTER: Well, we will find out about that because many countries said they won't get involved, but Jeremy Diamond is in Tel Aviv for us, and
interesting to see that the negotiating table might be back in action -- Jeremy.
JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN JERUSALEM CORRESPONDENT: Yes, that's right, Max and we are seeing that, you know, this was the intention ultimately of President
Trump. By putting this blockade into effect, he is trying to add another layer of pressure at the negotiating table. But it is a risky gambit, of
course, for a number of reasons.
First of all, we have yet to see how effectively the United States can actually enforce this naval blockade. As you just mentioned, regarding one
ship that seems to have passed through so far, but beyond that, of course, are the potential consequences, both known and unintended of this blockade.
The Iranians, for example, have said that they are on heightened military alert, that they will -- that this could put other ports in the Gulf of
U.S. allies potentially at risk of being struck by Iran. The United States is saying that it will strike any Iranian ships -- military ships that pass
through the Strait of Hormuz, and then beyond that, there are the financial ramifications for a region that has already been under economic strain for
global oil prices, which are once again climbing above $100.00 a barrel and could go far, far beyond that, and that's because throughout this time,
while the Strait of Hormuz has been blockaded, there still has been a flow of Iranian oil through that Strait.
And now, cutting off that supply of Iranian oil to the global oil market could effectively drive those prices much closer to something like $175.00
per barrel, perhaps, according to some analysts.
But ultimately, we are seeing that there is still movement at the negotiating table here. The potential for the United States and Iran to get
back to another in-person meeting, perhaps as early as later this week or early next week, we will have to see.
But in the meantime, there is still, of course, the threat of what this could all do, the unintended consequences that this could introduce in
terms of potential military action.
So far, the Iranians are protesting this latest move by the United States, but it has yet to result in a total breakdown of the ceasefire. Still no
ballistic missiles being fired by Iran here at Israel, no Israeli strikes in Iran, same as it goes for the United States.
But of course, there is still one hot front, and that is in Lebanon, where we are continuing to see Israeli strikes in Lebanon and Hezbollah rocket
fire at Northern Israel, despite the fact that tomorrow we are expecting Israel and Lebanon to sit down at the negotiating table.
Max, a lot of moving pieces in this region right now.
FOSTER: Yes, absolutely. Jeremy, thank you so much for that.
Well, up until now, the U.S. has relied on sanctions to restrict Iran's oil trade, discouraging the buyers. The blockade is now taking aim at the oil
itself.
So Iran has been exporting 1.8 million barrels a day. It is a vital source of revenue for the regime. Sanctions have crippled Iran's economy and
soaring inflation sparked mass protests over the winter.
[16:05:18]
Admiral Gary Roughead is a retired U.S. military officer. He served as the Chief of U.S. Naval Operations. He joins me now from Virginia.
Thank you so much for joining us, Admiral. And I gather this is the sort of work the Navy is prepared for.
ADMIRAL GARY ROUGHEAD (RET). FORMER CHIEF OF U.S. NAVAL OPERATIONS: Absolutely. I think the interdiction of the ships, the boarding of the
ships, is something that we practice, that we have procedures for and I don't see that as being a challenge.
The fact that we will be able to track ships that have called in Iranian ports or will be calling in Iranian ports, I think that information will be
readily available, and then it is just a question of stopping the ships and boarding them.
FOSTER: What sort of resource are we talking about here?
ROUGHEAD: Well, I think you would see boarding teams operating from some of the larger ships, whether it be combatant or perhaps one of our amphibious
ships that is operating outside of the Gulf.
I do think, and I've heard the comment about a ship passing through and not having been boarded. My take is that it will be more likely that the ships
would be boarded after they pass through the Straits and not to get involved in a boarding operation in the Straits proper. So I think it is
not unusual that one of the ships would have gone out.
The next question then becomes, what is done with the ship and the cargo once they have been interdicted? And that's something that I think will
probably be of interest in the coming days.
FOSTER: How do you mean? Because of the logistics involved.
ROUGHEAD: Yes, exactly. Once you have the ship, what port does it go to? Does it go to an anchorage? What is the status of the cargo? What is the
role of the shipping company? What is the status of the crew that might be on that ship?
All of those, I think are second and third order issues that will come out from any ships that are boarded.
FOSTER: And probably not something that the President thought about, do you think, ahead of announcing the blockade?
ROUGHEAD: Well, I will leave that to the President to decide what he thought about and what the plan might be.
FOSTER: In terms we are looking at, you know, an aerial image there, as you say, it would be very tricky to operate in the Strait of Hormuz, but you
were suggesting that that wouldn't be the plan anyway. You wouldn't go into the Strait and have that sort of vulnerability there. You're working in the
ocean outside and effectively intimidating any ships that do want to go through. Is that right?
ROUGHEAD: I think so, I mean, I think it would be much easier to not have to contend with, perhaps some drone activity, missile activity, small boat
activity that would be much easier for Iran to execute in the Straits proper.
So my sense is it would be, you know, out of the Straits that the boardings and the interdiction would take place. Similarly, if there are ships that
have declared to call in an Iranian port, I would say that it would be more likely that they would be boarded prior to entering the Gulf and at that
point, those ships can turn around and respond to the orders from their company or their investors, whatever it may be.
FOSTER: A lot of this oil, as we understand it, is heading to China. I am not sure whether that would be on Iranian or Chinese ships. I am not sure
how that works, but would you have concerns about intercepting a ship destined for China, because that does shine a very different light onto
this conflict, doesn't it?
ROUGHEAD: Oh, I think it would. I think it causes a significant problem as to what would be done and what actions would be taken, what would be the
reaction of the Chinese government. But there are other countries that I believe are equally as concerned.
For example, there have been Pakistani ships that have moved through the Gulf. There have been Indian ships that have gone through the Gulf and what
are the consequences there, particularly for a country like Pakistan, that has been quite hospitable in hosting the ceasefire talks?
The other question, even though we may be blockading Iranian ports, the real question is when does the Strait open? When will it be safe for
example, American flagged commercial ships to transit in and out of the Gulf?
There are still a lot of shipping that's bottled up in the Gulf that needs to get out. There are still some shipping that really needs to come in to
provide provisions to the Gulf Arab states. And the question for me remains, when will the Straits be open and when will commerce return to
normal?
[16:10:10]
That's the big question.
FOSTER: Yes, and it matters for the whole world, doesn't it? Admiral Gary Roughead, really appreciate your time tonight. Thank you.
ROUGHEAD: My pleasure.
FOSTER: Now, one Iranian official predicts the blockade will backfire on the U.S. Mohammad Bagher Ghalibaf who is the speaker of the Iran
Parliament, he also led the Iranian delegation that met with J.D. Vance in Pakistan recently.
Now, he posted that "... people in the U.S. will soon be nostalgic for when gas costs less than $5.00 a gallon." The price of oil climbed in reaction
to President Trump's call for a blockade. Fox News asked him this weekend where gas prices may go.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARIA BARTIROMO, FOX BUSINESS NETWORK HOST, MORNINGS WITH MARIA": Do you believe the price of oil and gas will be lower before the midterm
elections?
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: I hope so, I mean, I think so. It could be. It could be or the same or maybe a little
bit higher. But it should be around the same.
I think this won't be that much longer.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FOSTER: Kristen Holmes is at The White House.
It matters, doesn't it, the gas price? But you know, he can't actually say where they are going to go until he has got this situation in Iran
resolved, can he?
KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: No he can. I think it was even surprising to the interviewer there when he said that the prices
could go up as well as stay the same, particularly given that this has been something that Republicans are growing increasingly concerned about,
particularly ahead of those midterms, the idea of gas that could be as high as five, six, seven dollars a gallon, when we know that the number one
argument that both sides are going to be trying to win on this cycle is going to be affordability.
So, this is going to be blamed squarely on The White House because of the situation in Iran, which is going to cause a lot of issues. Now, just in
terms of where negotiations stand and how that could impact these gas prices as well, we do have new reporting that, at least internally inside
the administration, they are having discussions as to another round of potential talks.
Now, this is very preliminary. Nothing is on the books, but they want to be able to stand something up quickly ahead of that ceasefire expiring, should
they be given the opportunity to do so.
It also underscores our reporting that there is still a lot of back channeling and back conversation happening between the two sides, despite
the fact that those talks were unsuccessful.
A regional source telling us that Turkey was helping in between -- mediating between the two groups, trying to kind of square the circle
there, try to fix the things that are not aligned when it comes to Iran and the United States.
So, we will see where this goes. There is also talk about a potential extension on the ceasefire to try and continue these talks. But all of this
right now is incredibly preliminary and it does feel as though when it comes to the blockade, that it is going to be a question of who blinks
first and who can withstand the enormous amount of financial pressure that closing the Strait of Hormuz is going to put both on the United States and
Iran.
FOSTER: How much do you think the President is watching the stock market? Because its extraordinarily resilient, isn't it, considering the economic
crisis that could unfold from here? But presumably, the President feels quite confident as long as the markets keep going up.
HOLMES: He will continue to feel confident as long as the markets are going up, but also understands the importance of a gas per gallon that is $7.00
and how that is going to impact the American people. It also -- the longer that this drags out, the higher that gas price is going to go and the
higher that gas price goes, it will likely impact the markets as well.
So right now, things are holding steady. We know that part of the reason things are holding steady is because things are moving in a direction with
the ceasefire, there have been these negotiations, but if this is drawn out, he cannot -- no one can guarantee that the market will hold. And I
certainly know for a fact that President Trump and his Secretary of Treasury, Scott Bessent, believe that the markets are key to everything
revolving around this presidency and Scott Bessent's job.
So they are certainly watching it very closely.
FOSTER: Yes. Okay, Kristen, I appreciate it. Thank you.
Well, a crushing election defeat and a political shift that's sending ripples around the world. Up next, what Viktor Orban's ousting means for
Hungary, the E.U. and indeed for Donald Trump.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:16:55]
FOSTER: In Hungary, the 16-year rule of Prime Minister Viktor Orban is coming to an end after he lost a landslide vote to the center right leader,
Peter Magyar. It is being seen as a crushing defeat for Orban and a major rejection of his far-right pro-Kremlin politics.
Indeed, people out celebrating in Budapest as the results came in, shouting "Russians go home!" You can hear them here in this video.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(PEOPLE chanting in foreign language.)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FOSTER: Magyar has already promised that he will distance Hungary from Moscow and curb its reliance on Russian oil. Melissa Bell has more now on
the man set to lead Hungary.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(PEOPLE cheering)
MELISSA BELL, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice over): It was a landslide victory for the people, according to Peter Magyar.
PETER MAGYAR, HUNGARIAN PRIME MINISTER ELECT (through translator): Together, we've replaced the Orban regime. Together, we've liberated
Hungary. We took back our country.
BELL (voice over): A fresh start, he told an ecstatic crowd after trouncing MAGA darling Viktor Orban that had been decided neither in Brussels nor in
Moscow nor in Washington despite MAGA's best efforts.
J.D. VANCE (R), VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: We have got to get Viktor Orban reelected as Prime Minister of Hungary, don't we?
TRUMP: I love that, Viktor. I will tell you, he is a fantastic man. We've had a tremendous relationship. Great leader!
BELL (voice over): But early on Sunday night, it was clear that none of the endorsements had helped.
VIKTOR ORBAN, OUTGOING HUNGARIAN PRIME MINISTER (through translator): The election result is painful for us, but it is clear.
BELL (voice over): So clear that tens of thousands made their way to the streets of Budapest to celebrate something they could hardly believe.
BELL (on camera): How do you feel tonight?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Too good! Too good! With the Tisza, so Orban-Putin, go home!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You can see all around the people, the streets. Everyone wants change.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I am really excited because it is going to be a new thing.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I've never thought this would actually happen. I've been praying for this for 16 years, so I am super happy.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I just want to apologize for our last 16 years.
BELL (on camera): At his very first press conference on Monday, Peter Magyar vowing to act quickly. Hungary, he said, had been left indebted,
robbed and devastated. He also answered this question, what his defeat of Viktor Orban might mean for movements like MAGA.
MAGYAR (through translator): I believe this is a major loss for them. Viktor Orban was their poster child, insofar as he could be. He represented
this fight against Brussels.
BELL (voice over); Budapest, he said, would also no longer finance the intellectual infrastructure of the global far-right, its think-tanks and
learning centers like the MCC, where J.D. Vance spoke last week.
MAGYAR (through translator): I think this was a criminal offense, party financing mixed up with government expenditure. CPAC can come to Budapest,
but not on Hungarian taxpayers' money.
(PEOPLE chanting)
BELL (voice over): On Sunday, Hungarians celebrated being a part of a democratic revolution. Peter Magyar says that's just the start.
Melissa Bell, CNN, Budapest.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
[16:20:08 ]
FOSTER: Let's bring in Zsuzsanna Szelenyi, director of the CEU Democracy Institute Leadership Academy and a senior fellow at the Central European
Policy Analysis.
Thank you so much for joining us.
I mean, the landslide was quite extraordinary, wasn't it? I mean, how do you explain this huge turnaround for the last election?
ZSUZSANNA SZELENYI, DIRECTOR OF THE CEU DEMOCRACY INSTITUTE LEADERSHIP ACADEMY: Well, it was pretty clear that the turnout would be high because,
for two -- in the last two years, there was finally one strong political alternative leader for Orban.
For 14 years, a political opposition was very fragmented and despite the fact that they could collaborate at elections, it was a kind of crisis of
leadership. So this was the vacuum Magyar could fill in the last two years. He rallied a lot of people of all kinds of ideology behind who wanted Orban
to leave, and I think that that was a critical factor.
Also, many economic problems, moral issues and scandals broke out in the government. So, there was plenty of reason why eventually Hungarians
decided, but this kind of feeling, the leadership crisis were an essential part of the story.
FOSTER: Yes, it is interesting hearing people say "Russians go home" chanting that a lot today. I mean, obviously, I am not there, but I hear
that it was being chanted a lot and that really speaks to the -- you know, the overriding issue that they felt that the country had moved too far away
from Europe, I think, and too close to Russia. So there is going to be a turnaround there.
SZELENYI: Absolutely. I mean, this was a huge risk. I think Orban introduced more than 10 years ago changing Hungary's consensual foreign
policy paradigm, which was European Transatlantic since the regime change for the last 30 years.
But he wanted to be part of the leader of the world, and it was quite a lot of hubris. He wanted to put himself between East and West. He started to
introduce these narratives like 15 years ago, and this this also meant getting closer to Russia, Putin, which was at the same time radicalizing. I
mean, Putin of 15 years ago was different than like three years ago.
But it was a huge risk because he really lost the natural path of a small Central European country. And of course, this balancing dance between E.U.
partners, being a European Union member and also collaborating with Russia, with Turkey, with China, with whoever in the world, I think it was just too
risky and it didn't work out for him.
FOSTER: He was very close to Trump. Is Peter Magyar going to be -- you know, what's his view of Trump and the U.S. relationship?
SZELENYI: I think, the Tisza administration will follow basically a more traditional transatlantic relationship, which also means, they will make
efforts to remain reasonable relationship with the United States. I think more, more what exactly it will look like, we don't know.
But Magyar earlier made comment that he is ready to collaborate with the Trump administration and also actually J.D. Vance when he was here in
Hungary a couple of days ago, he also, despite campaigning for Orban for two days, he mentioned that if the turnout -- if the election outcome will
be something different, the United States will work with another Hungarian government as well.
FOSTER: Magyar was very close to Orban, wasn't he originally, very much at the center of the party. Is just an opportunist who saw a gap here, or has
he really changed?
SZELENYI: Well, I think leaders are born when there is an opportunity. I have a very strong conviction about that. And what kind of leader? As a
governor Magyar will be, we will have to see.
What we saw that he made an incredible, courageous step because leaving Fidesz, which is a highly disciplined, almost like an army party, it was a
huge risk for him. And we saw that from the very first moment, there was a continuous and massive, robust campaign about that, which was surprisingly
he was surprisingly a resistance. Actually, people just didn't bother themselves.
But I was once a Fidesz member and I also left long ago and it was very painful to leave. A political party is a community. It is a lot of friends
and colleagues.
[16:25:10]
So I think Magyar, I don't know him personally. But I am pretty sure he went through maybe years of frustration before he left Fidesz and took this
very risky step, which actually turned out pretty well for him.
FOSTER: Yes, absolutely. So Orban was in power, wasn't he, for 16 years. He was, you know, an authoritarian leader, many people outside the country saw
him as at least and he made a lot of changes to the country. So he is going to have an impact. There is going to be a legacy there, isn't there, going
forward? How would you define that?
SZELENYI: So Hungary will face formidable problems in the coming years and not just urgent problems like basically the Hungarian government coffers
are emptied. Hungary is facing economic problems. There is stagnation for three years, so it will be very complicated to govern without money,
especially when the world economy is also so unstable. So, this is one.
The other thing is that, Orban built a state. He used the term illiberal state, which basically disrespected the liberal element of a state,
something like the separation of state powers, the neutrality of the state, a pluralist profile of political organizations and civil society. So there
was a huge concentration of power and a lot of informality.
So the whole government structure, even the constitutional structure should be revised in Hungary, which will not happen very fast and also, despite
Magyar has a constitutional majority, he should do it in a different way, because one problem with Orban was that he did it by one party.
So Magyar cannot afford, I think Hungarians will not tolerate this any longer. That one party, even with such a big legitimacy, electoral
legitimacy should make Constitution on their own.
So I think they have to figure out -- these parties should figure out a new methodology, more participative, more consultative way of how a future,
more pluralist profile of a Hungarian state should look like.
And so these are plenty of things, and of course, Orban has a whole series of autocratic holdovers. Moreover, Viktor Orban will still be Hungary's
Prime Minister at least for one month and there is plenty of opportunity for him to create all kinds of problems for an upcoming government.
FOSTER: Yes, let's see what he does with that. Zsuzsanna Szelenyi, thank you so much for joining us.
Now, regardless of the new government's potential challenges, one Hungarian politician is excited about Sunday's results. He is making waves on social
media with his celebrations on stage last night.
Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
NATALIE HAYTAYAN, CNN PRODUCER (voice over): This Hungarian politician's decision to bust a move on stage after incoming Prime Minister Peter
Magyar's victory speech has delighted social media users around the world.
Zsolt Hegedus, who is a candidate to become Health Minister, stole the show amid the celebrations While social media users are debating over what track
he was dancing to, commenters seem united in his dance moves: "He is fit enough and has the moves to be Health Minister."
"Right man for the job. Picture of health he is."
"Can he become Dance Minister?"
"This is the most Gen X dance moves I've seen in a while."
The celebration continued throughout the night after nationalist leader, Viktor Orban accepted defeat after 16 years in office.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
FOSTER: U.S. President Donald Trump hitting out at the Pope. Meanwhile, once again, we will have the latest on that unlikely spat after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:32:05]
FOSTER: Hello, I'm Max Foster.
There is more QUEST MEANS BUSINESS in just a moment. But we are going to go to this.
A federal judge dismissed the president's defamation lawsuit against The Wall Street Journal. Mr. Trump's legal team says it will refile the case.
And the war in Iran has caused chaos for airlines based in the region. CNN visits the airport where some of them have grounded their planes.
Before that though, the headlines this hour.
So, U.S. President Donald Trump confirming a naval blockade of Iranian ports is underway. He warns any Iranian ships that come near the blockade
will be eliminated.
But Mr. Trump says there is still room for diplomacy. He says Iranian officials called this morning and want to make a deal.
In Hungary, a thumping defeat for Viktor Orban, the pro-Trump, pro-Kremlin, pro-E.U. prime minister -- sorry, rather anti E.U. prime minister, lost in
a landslide election on Sunday, ending his 16-year rule.
Center-right candidate Peter Magyar is set to become Hungary's new leader. He is promising closer ties to the European Union and less reliance on
Russian oil.
President Trump is doubling down his criticism of Pope Leo. He says there is no reason to apologize for social media posts, but accused the pontiff
of being wrong about the war in Iran and weak on crime.
Earlier, Pope Leo said he was unafraid of the Trump administration and will continue to advocate peaceful reconciliation.
A U.S. official tell CNN, the U.S. and Iran are still engaged in talks and searching for a diplomatic off ramp to end this war. It comes after
marathon negotiations in Pakistan over the weekend failed to produce a significant breakthrough, and the U.S. has since imposed its own blockade
at the Strait of Hormuz.
CNN international diplomatic editor Nic Robertson is in Islamabad. How hopeful are the mediators in this then, Nic?
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Yes, and it's not clear yet where the mediation might be if and when talks get up and running. I
mean, I think the overall sense and takeaway was that President Trump put this additional blockade on the Strait of Hormuz to try to induce Iran to
make further concessions at talks.
From the interlocutor perspective here in Pakistan, the readout after the talks broke down without agreement was that both sides don't want to return
to war, in essence, that there is hope that talks can get going again.
You don't have the -- I mean, you had over the weekend in those marathon talks, the interlocutors with both sides, trilateral talks in the same
room.
So, actually, the ground had really moved a lot forward from where the talks had been before the war, which were proximity talks, and you had the
vice president in there, and you had the sort of new, effective political leadership from Iran, the Speaker, the Parliament.
[16:35:03]
So, I don't think it's a surprise to anyone who is involved in the talks here that there is the sort of soundings that things can restart. I think
that -- I think the takeaway from here at the moment is, yes, it's possible, early days yet for when and where.
But the assumption is this is the ultimate off ramp. But, of course, President Trump does change his mind a lot to wrong foot Iran and others in
all of this. So, again, I don't think anyone would take this for granted. But I think there was a huge shock at the weekend that the United States,
in the present -- in the persona and representation of the president, in the vice president, didn't stay long enough to conclude and complete talks,
which there was a real sense here could have happened.
And, of course, the Iranians saying that the U.S. side kept moving the goalposts. So, I think the perception here is there is a deal to be done,
but it's not until President Trump is really satisfied, he is getting what he wants.
FOSTER: I guess the immediate concern is reopening the Strait of Hormuz, but the bigger concern is this red line for the U.S. that Iran can never
build a bomb, can't have any enriched uranium. And that is a, you know, you can't negotiate that in a couple of days. Can you?
ROBERTSON: You can't. And that was the perception of the negotiators coming in here. They always wanted to go long. And the perception was that Iran
bringing in so many different technical experts, and the U.S. said they had enough technical experts on hand as well.
The impression the Iranians created was that they were ready to sort of do the longer-term discussions. And the Iranian Speaker of the Parliament
said, you know, it put forward 169 different proposals and answers to U.S. positions, and it was up to United States to trust Iran. Trust is at the
massive deficit here.
And I think because the talks broke down, trust -- you know, I think both sides kind of built a bit of a platform of where they are, but the actual
trust around that, I don't think that really grew out of these talks at the moment, indeed, may have -- may really have weakened.
But to get out of the blockade is really going to take signaling, I think, from Tehran to President Trump that number one, they are not going to
escalate militarily against the blockade. And number two, they are ready to make these concessions.
I mean, J.D. Vance, when I asked him, what precisely did break down? This is when the talks were broke up in the early hours of Sunday morning. He
said it did come down to that nuclear issue that Iran had not convinced that over the long term, they were willing to put aside ambitions to have a
nuclear weapon.
And subsequent to that, his -- J.D. Vance's office said there are real specifics here. You know, we need to get our hands on that enriched uranium
-- highly enriched uranium. We need to -- we need to get all elements of their bomb making material.
And the Iranians created a narrative that they were ready to do that, but the U.S. kept moving the goalpost. You know, where the facts lie in this,
unless you were inside the room, you won't really know how the conversations played out and who said what and when.
FOSTER: Yes. OK. Nic, thank you so much.
Let's get more now on the escalating spat between the two most powerful men in the world, Pope Leo and U.S. President Donald Trump.
CNN Vatican correspondent Chris Lamb has this report on how it all started.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CHRISTOPHER LAMB, CNN VATICAN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): The U.S. president and a U.S. pope in a very public war of words.
POPE LEO XIV, SOVEREIGN OF THE VATICAN CITY STATE (through translator): Welcome aboard.
LAMB (voice over): Leo XIV, responding to an extraordinary broadside against the Chicago-born pontiff by President Donald Trump, speaking on
board the papal plane to journalists covering a major 11 city visit to Africa, the first American pope made it clear he won't be intimidated.
POPE LEO XIV: I have no fear that neither the Trump administration or speaking out loudly about the message of the Gospel. That's what I believe.
I am here to do, what the Church is called to do.
LAMB (voice over): The pontiff insisting the mission of the church is to build bridges, not engage in politics.
POPE LEO XIV: We are not politicians, we don't deal with foreign policy with the same perspective that he might understand it. But I do believe in
the message of the Gospel, as a peacemaker.
LAMB (voice over): Leo has repeatedly spoken out against Trump's actions in Iran. President Trump fired back on Sunday night, lashing out at the pope
over his criticism of the U.S. and Israel's war, involving Iran.
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We don't like it. We don't like a pope that's going to say that it's OK to have a nuclear weapon. We
don't want a pope that says crime is OK in our cities. I don't like it. I'm not a big fan of Pope Leo.
LAMB (voice over): On Truth Social, Trump went further, calling the pontiff weak on crime and terrible for foreign policy. Even saying he prefers the
Pope's brother, Louis Prevost, who has shown his support for MAGA.
Upping the ante, Trump, also posted an A.I. image on truth social, depicting himself as a Christ-like figure, healing a sick person with
American flags and eagles in the background.
[16:40:08]
The image was later deleted.
TRUMP: I did post it, and I thought it was me as a doctor, and had to do with Red Cross as a Red Cross worker there, which we support, and only the
fake news could come up with that one.
It's supposed to be me as a doctor, making people better.
LAMB (voice over): Trump also claimed the pope was only elected last year because he is American, suggesting the church chose him to better deal with
his presidency.
Pope Leo has repeatedly condemned the use of religious language to frame the military operation in Iran.
PETE HEGSETH, UNITED STATES DEFENSE SECRETARY: Rescued on Sunday. Flown out in Iran as the sun was rising on Easter Sunday, a pilot reborn all home and
accounted for a nation rejoicing. God is good.
POPE LEO XIV (through translator): Jesus is the King of Peace, who rejects war, whom no one can use to justify war. He does not listen to the prayers
of those who wage war, but rejects them.
LAMB (voice over): A Vatican official Father Antonio Spadaro, saying Trump is attacking what he cannot control, a moral voice on the global stage.
Trump does not argue with Leo. He implores him to return to a language he can control. But the pope speaks another language, one that cannot be
reduced to the grammar of force, security, or national interest.
Christopher Lamb CNN, Algiers.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
FOSTER: As we just saw, shortly after President Trump's comments about Pope Leo, he posted then deleted this A.I. generated image on social media. It
depicted Trump as a Christ-like figure healing a sick patient, though, he says the picture has been misinterpreted.
Last hour, I asked religion historian Jemar Tisby about the post.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JEMAR TISBY, RACE AND RELIGION HISTORIAN: You can call this image a lot of things, heretical, blasphemous, idolatrous. What you can't call it is
Christian. This is white Christian nationalism.
This is the president putting himself in the place of a religious figure, the Savior, Jesus, Christ. And it is also embedded with these nationalist
images, American eagles flying all around, the U.S. flag in the background. And here, we see in visual form, this toxic marriage between nationalism
and Christianity, which we call white Christian nationalism.
FOSTER: There are some in his party that may approve of that imagery, but we obviously saw a big backlash to many in his base, because he deleted it.
You would assume they deleted it under pressure. Just explain how maybe you know, Republican MAGA base members may have been offended by this, despite,
you know, some of the parts of it ringing true for them.
TISBY: Absolutely. As I said, this is white Christian nationalism. It's not the Christianity of Christ, as Frederick Douglass would have put it. But
Christians are not off the hook. Not only should they be the most upset by this perversion of their faith, they should also be the most vigorous in
pushing back against it.
And so, in this instance, it was a bridge too far, even for far-right supporters of the president. I mean, when you are getting criticized by the
hosts from Fox News and writers at The Daily Wire, you have lost the plot. These have -- there is already a strained relationship with his supporters
right now due to the war in Iran, skyrocketing gas prices and increasingly extreme rhetoric, even for this president. And I think back to when he said
he would destroy the entire Iranian civilization.
All of that is adding up, and they are getting more and more vocal and faster to push back.
FOSTER: He's also hit back at Pope Leo today, hasn't he? Pope Leo seemed to take it in his stride. But is that a line that American presidents
shouldn't cross?
TISNY: It is absolutely a line that any political leader, let alone the president of the United States, should not cross. I mean, essentially, you
are taking the power of the United States political system and its power as a nation and turning it toward a religious body and a religious figure in
the pope, probably the most widely known religious figure on the planet.
It's wholly inappropriate holy and abuse of power, and it's really actually quite inspiring to see Pope Leo standing firm on this. I mean, he is using
power the way it should be, sitting in this incredibly influential position and calling for peacemaking amid political leaders who seem to make war on
a whim.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[16:45:00]
FOSTER: Now, U.S. -- a U.S. judge has thrown out President Trump's defamation suit against The Wall Street Journal. The dispute started last
summer over his birthday letter to Jeffrey Epstein. More on the case next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
FOSTER: A federal judge has dismissed U.S. President Donald Trump's defamation lawsuit against The Wall Street Journal. He says Trump failed to
prove the journal acted with actual malice.
When it reported on a lewd birthday letter to late sex offender Jeffrey Epstein, bearing Trump's name, the president has denied writing the letter.
The judge says Mr. Trump's claims came nowhere close to meeting defamation standards for a public figure, but he is giving the president two weeks to
refile his complaint.
Media analyst Sara Fischer joins me now. Do you think he's going to file it? And, you know, what chance does he have of winning? Because after this
article came out, we saw the image.
SARA FISCHER, CNN MEDIA ANALYST: Yes. Well, historically, we almost always see the Trump administration filing appeals. So I expect them to file
something, but I agree with you, it's going to be an uphill battle for them, not only because we have seen the image, and now we all know with our
own eyes that, that report was, you know, accurate, but also because the actual malice standard to meet that in a defamation case. That bar is just
so, so, so, so high that for them to win on an appeal would be so difficult.
FOSTER: Yes. It's an interesting case, isn't it? Because you got Rupert Murdoch involved as well. He was part of the case, wasn't he? And these are
two men that were, you know, great contacts of the past.
FISCHER: Yes. And for a while, back in August, we thought that there was almost like a mini cease fire in this trial, because we had an agreement
between the Trump administration and The Journal around whether or not they were going to push Murdoch to testify, given his old age.
But it is really notable that they ultimately won this lawsuit, because for The Journal, it's -- and for Murdoch, it's not just about one entity. Every
case sets a precedent for the broader news landscape, and when it comes to The Journal, they have sister companies with Fox News, for example.
Dow Jones owns other publications, including Barron's and Marketplace. So, it's a big win for Rupert Murdoch and for the press freedom community writ
large.
FOSTER: Can I also ask you about our parent company, obviously, being taken over by Paramount, and there is been a big backlash in Hollywood. Just
explain what that's about.
FISCHER: Yes. So, you had about 10 -- sorry, 1,000 Hollywood actors, writers, directors, write an open letter to the media community, saying,
like, we oppose the merger between Warner Brothers and Paramount.
[16:50:05]
And the reason that they cited was that they think it would essentially box out competition within the industry, and it would eliminate sort of diverse
voices.
It's notable that they wrote this, because when you take a look at how this merger needs to move forward, it needs regulatory approval from the U.S.
and from many entities abroad, including the E.U. and the U.K. and other individual countries.
In the U.S., we know that the Justice Department is probing this, but analysts think it's unlikely they ultimately sue to block it.
So, if this merger were to not go through, who would need to sue to block it, or who would need to, you know, try to halt it? It would be either U.S.
state attorneys general or the E.U. or the U.K.
We know the U.K. from a report out from Bloomberg today, is possibly considering action against the merger, and the California State Attorney
General Rob Bonta, has said that he is also investigating the merger.
So, when a big letter comes out like this from Hollywood, and you are the California state attorney general, and your constituents are -- their lives
reflect this industry and depend on these jobs, this letter is going to push you even harder to possibly take action. And so, that's the real
impact to something like this.
FOSTER: Yes, it's interesting, isn't it? Sarah, thank you so much for joining us.
Now, the Iran war has forced major carriers to ground some of their aircraft. Many of them are being stored at a Spanish airport. Up next, CNN
visits this parking lot for planes.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
FOSTER: Tens of thousands of flights have been disrupted since the start of the Iran war. And it's forced major carriers like Qatar Airways to ground
some of their planes. Pau Mosquera visited the airport where these aircraft are actually being stored.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
PAU MOSQUERA, CNN SPAIN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): One runway, several large hangars and even a terminal.
MOSQUERA: This is Teruel's Airport, located more than 200 kilometers east of the city of Madrid. Now, this is not your typical airport. Here, there
are no crowds, no boarding calls and no duty-free panic. Actually, here, business takes off when planes stop flying.
OCTAVIO LOPEZ, PRESIDENT, TERUEL AIRPORT CONSORTIUM (through translator): We can call it an aircraft parking facility, and we can also call it the
most important industrial airport in Europe.
At Teruel Airport, services such as maintenance, storage, recycling and even painting come together. Full comprehensive aircraft maintenance.
[16:55:01]
MOSQUERA: This aeronautical center owned by a consortium involving the government of Aragon and the city council of Teruel, it spans an area of
550 hectares, about 2.1 square miles, enough space to park up to 400 aircraft.
Currently, there are 90 aircraft. A quarter of which belong to the Qatar Airways fleet and have been parked here due to the war in Iran.
ALEJANDRO IBRAHIM, CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER, TERUEL AIRPORT (through translator): They have come, as you know, from the Persian Gulf, well
because they want to be in a safer place such as Teruel Airport, and to be based in Europe, which also allows them to use flight routes that are
operational and commercially valuable.
MOSQUERA (voice over): Since opening in 2013, this airport has not only proven its value as an aircraft maintenance and repair hub, but also as a
refuge in difficult times.
IBRAHIM: During the pandemic, we had up to 140 aircraft per year.
MOSQUERA: How long do airplanes typically remain on the ground here?
IBRAHIM: It depends. Some aircraft come for painting and stay around 10 or 11 days. If they come for maintenance, it depends on the maintenance
program. It can range from a week to a couple of months, or even three months. Or you may have a long-term parking if the client decides the
aircraft won't be used for the time being and will be kept as a backup.
We have a record of a Boeing 747, that stayed parked at the airport for seven years, but the aircraft was restored, returned to service and flew to
the United States to join a cargo airline.
MOSQUERA (voice over): In the case of aircraft that are no longer being used because of the conflict in the Middle East, it is still unclear how
long they will stay, or whether more will arrive. As Ibrahim points out, like birds, these aircrafts are designed to fly, and the hope is that
before long, they will be back in the air.
Pau Mosquera, CNN, Teruel, Spain.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
FOSTER: Wall Street responded with cautious optimism today after Trump said that Iran wants to make a deal. The Dow gained 301 points after opening
lower. The S&P 500 has now raised all of its losses since the Iran war actually began.
The NASDAQ reaching a nine-session winning streak, extraordinary when you consider anything that's going on in the world, focusing on Dow component,
Goldman Sachs now though shares dropped almost two percent despite reporting strong quarterly profits.
So, income from its fixed income and commodities desk fell unexpectedly. CEO David Solomon, referencing rising volatility a complex geopolitical
landscape, and that was during an early earnings call.
That is QUEST MEANS BUSINESS. I'm Max Foster. "THE LEAD" with Jake Tapper is next. Stay tuned.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
END
