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Quest Means Business

QUEST MEANS BUSINESS Live from Estonia; Ukraine: Attack on Russian Drone Pilot Training Camp Kills 65-plus; Senate GOP Revolt Over $1.8 Billion DOJ Fund Derails Trump Agenda. Interview with Karma Ventures Founder and Partner Margus Uudam; Interview with Veriff CEO Kaarel Kotkas; Interview with Space Capital CEO Chad Anderson. Aired 4-5p ET

Aired May 21, 2026 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[16:00:16]

RICHARD QUEST, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST, "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS": Closing bell ringing on Wall Street, the day I think the word is "bifurcated" when you

actually look and see how the market traded. It was all about yields, which turned direction and that sent the market sharply higher. We will need to

explain to you why yields moved the way they did.

A one and a two and a one, two, three, four. Trading is over. Those are the markets and these are the main events.

Tonight, the Prime Minister of Estonia tells me his country is under constant attack from Russia.

SpaceX is preparing to launch a new rocket into space, and of course, a trillion dollar company onto the NASDAQ.

And Estonia has more unicorns per capita than Silicon Valley. One of those unicorns will join me on tonight's program.

Tonight, live from Tallinn. It is Thursday, May the 21st. I am Richard Quest, and in Estonia, you better believe I mean business.

Good evening from Tallinn, the capital of Estonia, the Northern Baltic country and the Estonian capital where we are, what a magnificent late

spring, getting ready for summer. As you can see, this last time. In fact, the sun is only just setting at the moment. That is -- we will tell you all

about the church. Well tell you all about everything over the course of the next hour.

This is a country that has truly shaken off its Soviet past, though the government here remains wary of its Russian neighbors and the hundreds of

kilometers of a shared border.

Tonight, you'll hear from the Prime Minister about those concerns, as well as Estonia's identity as the new Nordic nation. They call it Nordic normal

and I will talk to two of the country's top tech executives about the country's famous -- world famous entrepreneurial spirit.

But we begin, as so much does in this country, with the geopolitics and with the Prime Minister, Kristen Michal tells me his country is facing

constant and increasing cyberattacks from Russia, which is just a few hundred kilometers away over the border.

The Prime Minister told me earlier this week the war in Ukraine is ongoing at so many levels here, and that Russia is not just focused on the

battlefield.

In particular, the significance the country borders Russia and before its independence was, of course, one of the smallest countries as part of the

Soviet Union. And this week, a NATO jet shot down a Ukrainian drone over the country's territory. Ukraine says Russia had taken control of the

vehicle and steered it.

The Prime Minister and I also discussed the recent election of Peter Magyar in Hungary. He says he is very glad Hungary is moving in a new direction.

Kristen Michal says while the threat from Russia is increasing, this for Estonia is not new.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KRISTEN MICHAL, ESTONIAN PRIME MINISTER: Since 2007, Estonia has been under constant cyberattacks and we have very robust cyber capabilities in private

sector, public sector working together.

But attacks from Russian side from the state players, criminal players have increased, not decreased and also the sophistication has gone up. So, it

doesn't ask the kilometers, you can be in the States also at the same time and they are looking at your data in pharmacy, who are your friends? What

is happening in your account?

So, the war is ongoing on so many layers.

QUEST: Is there a new reality amongst European leaders, particularly say, for example, at the E.U. Council that Europe, you all say the same thing,

that yes, Europe has to shoulder more of the burden. Europe has to do this, but it is sort of -- you're still all hoping that Dad is going to be there

to rescue Europe in the end.

Has reality arrived that the U.S. might not be there?

MICHAL: The investments in defense, what we are doing, we are doing it for ourselves, for Estonia, for Baltics, for Nordics, for NATO, for everybody,

for everybody in this alliance.

So we understand what needs to be done and I would say that most of European countries also message the same message that increasing defense

expenditure, also ramping up defense industry, it is a must.

[16:05:10]

And, if the years go by, we have already Finland and Sweden in the NATO, which was Putin's biggest miscalculation.

So I would say that Europe goes each year, each month, each quarter on as a stronger alliance.

QUEST: And Europe is prepared to pay the bills.

MICHAEL: There is no other way, because if you want security, you must pay the bills.

QUEST: Well, related to that, how relieved were you when Viktor Orban lost in Hungary and that one of the big -- and I am not -- this is not a

political question -- about his politics, it is a geostrategic question about the fact he was the principal thorn and obstacle to E.U. assistance

for Ukraine.

You must have been glad he is gone.

MICHAL: I am very glad, because, I respect the will of Hungarian people in elections and Peter Magyar probably is a good leader, hopefully and he has

different path than Viktor Orban.

But Viktor Orban was doing that, no one else did in European history that European Council had a decision to help Ukraine with 90 billion euros,

which is a lot, which is a lot.

But after taking the decision and opting himself out of it, he started to block it. So, that was something new that has never happened in Europe

before and hopefully, it won't happen again.

QUEST: To those who say you're all paranoid, Putin does not want to take over the Baltic States. You know, that was then, now, we are now. You're

all paranoid. What would you say?

MICHAL: Does it look like we are paranoid in Ukraine? Just one visit to Ukraine shows that what is happening because Putin's main message is that

breaking up the Soviet Union, that was the biggest catastrophe for him and his generation in Russia, and also personal insult to him and it is not the

only a question about territory, it is a question of sovereignty with Ukraine.

And we are sitting in a room, we have heating, we have electricity, we have running water. And right now, at the same time as we are here, Russia is

bombing heating, electricity, running water in Ukraine. These are not military objects. This is not military campaign.

This is the message: You are a failed state. Please hand it over.

So, if somebody thinks we are paranoid, please, a visit Ukraine will cure it.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

QUEST: The Prime Minister of Estonia. You'll hear more from him in just a moment.

Before we continue, I was talking about the beautiful sunset. Just take a look at that. Oh my goodness, and it is -- I mean, it is coming up to what

time are we were, at ten past -- it is nearly 10 past 11 at night, 2310, and the sun is just -- another month and it will be the longest day, but I

just had to show you that because it really is spectacular.

And of course, once the summer arrives, this country, along with all the Baltic and the Nordic countries absolutely spectacularly beautiful.

Now, continuing on that theme that we've just been talking about, Ukraine says it has killed dozens of Russian drone pilot cadets in an attack on a

training camp in the occupied Donetsk Region.

Apparently, it targeted the two-storey building, which it says also housed warheads and a command post. This video shows the aftermath of the strike,

and it comes as Estonia's Intelligence Chief is telling our own Seb Shukla that Russia is facing increasing headwinds in its war on Ukraine.

Seb Shukla joins me now from Berlin.

Seb, yesterday you were here in Tallinn along with us. There was a conference here earlier in the week, a security conference where the theme

was very much what Europe needs to do, and things are not going well or they are going pretty badly for the Russians.

SEBASTIAN SHUKLA, CNN PRODUCER: Yes, that's right, Richard. There are a few countries anywhere in the world that is able to and makes a focus of

listening and taking stock of what the Russians are saying. They are a belligerent neighbor to Estonia.

And what the head of Estonia's Foreign Intelligence Service told me yesterday is that militarily, economically and societally, Russia is under

a major pressure right now, so much so that it could end up forcing President Putin to the negotiating table sooner rather than later.

Have a listen to what he told me.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KAUPO ROSIN, DIRECTOR GENERAL, ESTONIAN FOREIGN INTELLIGENCE SERVICE: What we have noticed in Russia is a slight change in the overall mood. I do not

hear any more talking about total victory. People recognize that the situation in the Ukrainian battlefield is not going too well for the

Russians.

[16:10:10]

We are probably at the moment where Russians in four or five months, maybe from now, are maybe not able to negotiate from a position of strength

anymore.

SHUKLA: What is your assessment of the state of the Russian Armed Forces right now?

ROSIN: They are losing more men in the battlefield than they can recruit under the current circumstances. So, if they would like to escalate in

Ukraine, for example, they would need substantially more manpower and I see here the only option would be a partial -- some type of forced

mobilization.

SHUKLA: Like we saw in September 2022.

ROSIN: For example, I would say technically they could do it, but that would create additional internal stability risks for Kremlin and we know

that they are very concerned about the internal stability.

SHUKLA: Is it possible to quantify what effect that sustained amount of losses is having on the Russian demographic?

ROSIN: They have, let's say, very strong gap in the needs between, let's say, the workforce needs and availability of the workforce -- there is a

serious, serious problem.

Another issue in regarding with the manpower is the situation where people who are demobilized, what these people are carrying back home is violence,

instability, psychological problems and crime and it also is having an impact on the Russian population already.

I really do not see a street revolution at this point, but sometimes such systems are very hollow inside. And if something happens, it will happen

very rapidly and we all will be surprised.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

QUEST: Seb, the contradiction here is that a country like Estonia, which is doing very well economically because of its digital work and digital

industry, and yet it does have this deep unease and concern about its security future, notwithstanding its E.U. and its NATO. Square that circle

for me.

SHUKLA: Well, I mean, Richard, you spoke to the Prime Minister yesterday, who detailed and said, just go to Ukraine if you think that we are safe

here in Estonia and that is the message that the Estonians and the foundation of their security apparatus and understanding, they know that

they are the first line of defense for NATO, if there were to ever be any attack by Russia towards the Alliance, they would be required to stand up

first.

That is the reason that the Baltic Nations have been so on the front foot about making sure that they are the ones that are meeting the defense

spending calculations, the five percent that is now being demanded by The White House, and why that they are at the forefront of this technological

advantage.

You mentioned that there are -- Estonia is a hotbed of unicorns. The defense cottage industry in Estonia is second to none and is a really vital

cornerstone of that country's economy and so that all underpins the value that NATO and the E.U. place on Estonia, and particularly because of the

way that they are able to gather Intelligence on the Kremlin. It shows that they are trusted partners and that they know what they are talking about --

Richard.

QUEST: Seb Shukla, thank you, joining us from Berlin. We will have more on that in a moment or three.

Let's go to the United States, where Senate Republicans are pushing back against the Trump administration's so-called anti-weaponization fund.

The Acting Attorney General, Todd Blanche, tried to defend the $1.8 billion fund during a Capitol meeting with lawmakers. The money is meant to

compensate people who they say were unfairly investigated by previous administrations.

The backlash against it is now jeopardizing a vote on immigration enforcement and administration priority.

Kristen Holmes is at The White House.

Which bit has got people most up in arms? Is it this idea of the fund itself or the IRS deal with Donald Trump that basically, draws a line under

all his tax affairs?

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: It is mostly about this fund right now and the amount of money that is in it that doesn't seem

to have an answer as to where exactly its coming from, and that is why we saw Todd Blanche up on Capitol Hill today to try to walk some of these

senators through details. But the senators who came out of that meeting said they didn't really learn much.

[16:15:10]

And it is really incensed these Republicans up on the Hill, so much so that they left for Memorial Day without taking these critical votes, completely

derailing a funding bill that was meant to, in the end, help President Trump.

And right now, what we are hearing from these various officials again, where is this money coming from? Why is it so much money? Why is this how

they got this -- why did they get this out of the settlement?

One of the things that we should note is that overall, there have been conversations for years, even before President Trump was elected, about

this idea of compensating or reimbursing various people who were investigated by the Biden administration. Of course, this administration

saying that it was weaponization, that it was only done because of their political party.

And I will note that a couple of weeks ago, Michael Flynn, who obviously worked for President Trump, was an ally of President Trump, settled with

the Department of Justice for $1.2 million because he said he was wrongfully investigated.

There really wasn't much uproar about that settlement, and so it seems as though The White House did not understand how much blowback was going to

come from this fund, and now, of course, you have all of these Republicans saying, not only are they not going to participate in this bill, but they

are also trying to tank this fund, they just don't seem to know how to at this point -- Richard.

QUEST: I am grateful. Kristen Holmes at The White House. I am grateful. Thank you.

By most measures, Estonia is a pretty decent place to live. Certainly, we've been here for the last few days. The country was behind the Soviet

Union's iron curtain for five decades. Today, the economy is robust by any standards, thriving by most. We will get to understand why in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

QUEST: Wonderful late spring, early summer evening. And where are we? We are at the Maritime Museum. The building is actually called Fat Margaret.

It is a big sort of tower right in the center, just off Old Town. And the boat that you're looking at was actually discovered under a car park that

was being renovated.

I think it is about 500 or 600 years old. It is only part of it, but it is the centerpiece of the museum here and it is absolutely spectacular.

There are loads of other artifacts here at the museum.

[16:20:10 ]

Estonia itself consistently ranks as the Baltic Nation, remember, don't forget the other ones -- with the highest level of human development. It is

amongst the world's top two.

It is a high-income country which can't be said for every post-Soviet state. GDP per capita here is around $50,000.00. Impressive by any

standards. And the economy can be traced to its early embrace of technologies like personal computers and digitization.

Ever since independence in 1991, this nation has been clearly ahead of its time.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

QUEST (voice over): Estonia is a country so small many would struggle to place it on a map. There are only 1.5 million people living here, yet in

the race to dominate A.I., this Baltic Nation is punching well above its weight.

QUEST (on camera): From this 1980's Soviet Olympic Stadium, we can see it perfectly, today's Estonia.

Over there, you have former Soviet prison where people were locked up and tortured.

Over here, modern development in the last five years. Extremely expensive apartments.

Over here, Old Town, tourism central -- delights, stag parties galore, and over there, of course, the modern business district leading to the digital

future.

QUEST (voice over): So now comes the big pivot to artificial intelligence.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Today, Estonia is not just online, it is full-fledged digital society where all public services are available to citizens

anytime, anywhere.

QUEST (voice over): For Estonia, this isn't only about technology, it is its very survival because history taught a brutal lesson here, if you are

small, you must adapt and fast.

For this is a country that spent centuries under foreign rule. The Danes, the Swedes, the Germans, and then trapped behind the Soviet Iron Curtain

for 50 years.

In 1991 came independence and while other former Soviet countries struggled with bureaucracy, Estonia simply wiped the slate clean with a New Guard led

by the Prime Minister, Mart Laar, they dismantled the legacy of Soviet oppression.

No legacy systems, no hulking administrative state, no attachment to the past.

Estonia went digital with its Project Tiger Leap, building the nation's digital backbone and entrepreneurs responded, flooding Tallinn. The

government itself moved online.

I saw it all firsthand when I visited Estonia in 2004, right as the country was entering the E.U.

MEELIS ATONEN, THEN-ESTONIAN MINISTER OF ECONOMIC AFFAIRS: For the government, actual goal is that every household in Estonia have its own

internet access at home, and maybe it takes a few years for us, but that is our goal.

QUEST: And now its A.I. reshaping warfare, education and finance, where Estonia sees opportunity. It is a master plan called the personalized

state.

The government believes all this is vital, although the critics are warning, a personalized state is a state that knows too much, it is privacy

versus progress -- finding the balance.

Whichever way it goes, Estonia understands something that many larger countries still struggle to grasp. In this 21st Century, power doesn't only

belong to giant armies or massive populations. Frequently, it belongs to those countries that move fastest.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

QUEST: Now, the former Soviet country that is of the Baltics, the Prime Minister telling me that he thinks of his country as a new Nordic nation, a

normal Nordic nation, which is the phrase.

He showed me around his office at the Stenbock House, right in the old town behind me. And he explained, how do you balance heritage with the future.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

QUEST: Is this your balcony where you stand and wave to the adoration of your public?

MICHAL: I hope so. Why not? Why not? I can do that also. But as you can see --

QUEST: It is a long way down.

MICHAL: No, but there is not too much people right there.

QUEST: But never mind, you know.

MICHAL: Yes.

QUEST: What have we got?

MICHAL: This is our Old Town. It is a UNESCO Heritage Site. And as you can see, it has been very well preserved. All the different murals from

Medieval Times.

[16:25:08]

So we have this kind of balance that our Old Town is from Medieval Times, but the government is from the future.

QUEST: Of all the countries that were former Soviet Union, Estonia seems to have been the one that has grown the quickest and feels the most Western,

it feels the most normal, Nordic Normal, I think is what you describe it as.

MICHAL: Yes. I would say also that Estonia's dream has been to be New Nordic, and I would say with I.T., with different kind of ICT sector, which

is quite strong in Estonia, new technologies, new industry, and also hopefully A.I. boom.

We will be New Nordic, but we have also industry, which is quite a developing field in Estonia and yes, in a good sense, we are probably as

boring on the security scene as any Nordic country. From here, 80 kilometers is to Helsinki, and in 500 miles you can reach Santa Claus. So

that's no -- you know where we are.

QUEST: On the economic front, your predecessors spotted a horse that was going to really win the race, which was the digital economy. When I came

here back in 2004, you were just about to join the European Union, and one of your predecessors showed me in that room, the paperless cabinet. I

didn't believe him, to be honest. I didn't believe -- I thought there were printers somewhere, secretly churning out cabinet papers. But apparently

not.

But you have done exceptionally well on the digital economy and now you're trying and succeeding to do very well on the A.I. economy.

MICHAL: Yes.

QUEST: How come? What did you do right?

MICHAL: First thing probably was we didn't have any legacy when--

QUEST: You had 70 years of the Soviet Union.

MICHAL: But on the I.T. scene, because when you start building from scratch, you can do it almost from zero and you can do things that nobody

even imagines when you have old systems to repair.

So, everything is in balance in Estonia, and it is also -- jokingly, but also a little bit true that in Estonia, everybody loves gadgets,

technology. It is like during the COVID times when they said to us that you have to keep two meters apart and everybody asks, why so close? So that's

why we like technology and we trust this kind of data and using technology and A.I. --

QUEST: where does that come from?

MICHAL: From the culture also, probably because when you have this kind of startup scheme, I would say in the 90s, everybody wanted to be a

businessman and politician. Right now in some countries, probably young people want to be TikTokers. In Estonia, they want to be startups. So it is

the vibe.

And you have this kind of already a layer because we had this kind of group of people who started Skype, which is right now Teams or something like

that. So right now, we have guys from Vice, we have backed them. We have very -- you can go on with Bolt and so on. These are all Estonian startups.

So in our culture, it is already this kind of -- you can see this is a measure of success. When you start something and you enlarge yourself.

QUEST: But you have to then ensure as Prime Minister that you foster that environment. It is very easy for government to kill the goose that laid the

golden egg.

MICHAL: Absolutely, absolutely.

QUEST: Regulation, taxation. You can't keep your sticky hands off it.

MICHAL: That's true. Usually when somebody has the words that I am from the government here to help, as you know, that means bad, bad news to you. But,

in Estonia, it is -- we have very vibrant culture and also this kind of -- we try to go into this direction that we have, this kind of regulation

sandboxes for our companies to move more freely, less regulation, less rules and so on.

Because on the State side, I would say that from the government, we just provide, maybe the easiest regulation is like Legos, you just provide the

boxes or this kind of Lego pieces and everybody can construct everything their imagination gives them.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

QUEST: All those Lego pieces in the sandbox creates unicorns. This country has startups coming out of its ears galore, a lot -- more on the unicorns

after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:32:52]

QUEST: Hello, I'm Richard Quest. There's more QUEST MEANS BUSINESS from Tallinn.

We'll find out what makes this country fertile ground for tech startups. The CEO of venture capital firm Karma Ventures is with me. And we'll also

be joined by the CEO of Veriff, which became Estonia's ninth tech unicorn. But did it guess my age right?

Before that, we'll have the news headlines because this is CNN. And on this network, the news always comes first. The Trump administration's anti-

weaponization fund is facing resistance on Capitol Hill. The fund is meant to compensate people who say they were wrongly investigated by previous

administrations. Some Republicans say they were left blindsided, and they've now left Washington for the weekend, which is putting in jeopardy

other laws that the president hoped to, particularly on immigration by June 1st.

Democrats have released a partial assessment of why their party did so poorly in the last presidential election. The so-called autopsy is

incomplete and party leaders say they have no plans to finish it. It blames the Biden campaign for ineffectively passing the torch to Kamala Harris. It

says Democrats did a poor job of reminding voters about Donald Trump's negative qualities.

The British government says it's found no evidence that Andrew Mountbatten- Windsor was vetted before becoming a trade envoy. He was appointed in 2001, stepped down a decade later over his ties to Jeffrey Epstein. Newly

released documents shed light on his appointment 25 years ago.

By one metric, depending on your point of view, Estonia is the most innovative country in Europe. It consistently ranks among the countries

with the most unicorns per capita. Now, you know a unicorn is defined as a private startup valued at more than $1 billion.

[16:35:02]

Now, Estonia has been the birthplace of 10 of them. The first, Skype, founded here in 2003. It's been churning them out ever since.

With me is Margus Uddam. He is the founder of Karma Ventures, a venture capital firm.

How many firms are you in at the moment, Magnus?

MARGUS UUDAM, FOUNDER AND PARTNER, KARMA VENTURES: We have invested roughly in 25 companies in Estonia, but also outside of Estonia.

QUEST: Right. But the whole concept here of this idea of the startup, the unicorn, where do you think it owes its success?

UUDAM: I think it comes back to the moment when we got independent and we feel very radical decisions, radically open economy, radically digital

economy. And we decided to privatize everything very fast. Our parents became entrepreneurs, not by choice but by necessity. Now fast forward

Skype happened and Skype being first European unicorn, having its engineering office in Estonia, it has massive impact for 1.3 million

population.

QUEST: But it's the ability to repeat again and again. And to some extent, it is the way the government has put Estonia, the personalization of state,

all these issues at the forefront.

UUDAM: Yes, the digital society, what we have creates the imagination, how we should live and what we should build. And our education has been

fundamentally one of the elements whereby most of international benchmarks, Estonia ranks in absolute top.

QUEST: But you see, one of the things I've learned since I've been here is Finland, which is just sort of over many kilometers in that direction.

Before the Soviet period, Estonia was very similar to Finland in terms of economic levels. And it's almost like the speed with which you've caught up

again is remarkable. And I'm wondering, do you risk other countries stealing your clothes?

UUDAM: So I think the fundamentals of what we have are fully in place. And for example, the first wave of unicorns, the 10 of them, they are pretty

much operating in established markets. The new wave coming up right now is based very much on deep tech approach. For example, if you take Starship,

robotic food and grocery delivery to your doorstep fully autonomous, or if you take Pactum AI, making autonomous negotiations, contract negotiations,

procurements for large corporates. It's new markets, new ways how to operate. And this is happening here.

QUEST: Right. But what do you need to do to ensure that those companies come here? Yes, you have a certain critical mass to start with. And

obviously you have infrastructure and you have ecosystem, but that can also be replicated in other countries.

UUDAM: I think the culture and mindset is pretty hard to replicate.

QUEST: But what is that culture and mindset?

UUDAM: I think it's humble. It's hard-working. It's willing to do your best and it's very, very good education. So she thinks many countries try, but

these are the fundamental basis, what we have in place.

QUEST: At Karma, do you worry on the geopolitical front? And by that of course, I mean Russia is over the border. And although you're a member of

NATO, Article Five, you're in E.U., et cetera., there is an uncertainty and an unease of what could happen.

UUDAM: Yes, but no news. The neighbor has been exactly the same for centuries, and we knew it all the time, what is the DNA of the neighbor.

And that's why we have always prepared. That's why, for example, cybersecurity in Estonia is very strong. NATO cybersecurity centers in

Estonia, and we have a number of startups who are showing the world how to cybersecurity for governments, for defense agencies, and so on.

QUEST: Of all your nine or 26, how many will become unicorns, do you think?

UUDAM: I hope three or four.

QUEST: Oi, oi, oi. Good to see you, sir. Thank you very much for joining us.

UUDAM: Thank you so much.

QUEST: One of Estonia's most recent unicorns is an identity verification startup called Veriff. Its chief executive will join me later in the

program. And in a moment, SpaceX is set to launch its most powerful rocket yet. It leaves tonight. The company's first stress test since filing for an

IPO.

QUEST MEANS BUSINESS.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:42:01]

QUEST: Just glorious. And now pretty much dark. Night has fallen. And the church behind us. And what a fantastic site. Only a few more days -- a few

more weeks, and it'll be pretty much light well into the middle of the night as the longest day of the year.

Welcome back to Tallinn, QUEST MEANS BUSINESS tonight in Estonia.

The identity verification platform Veriff became Estonia's ninth unicorn five years ago, in 2021. That means it has a valuation of more than $1

billion. Now, Veriff says its security features make the internet safer. It has an authenticator that uses A.I. to guess your age. You take a picture

and within seconds it will give you its best guess.

Kaarel Kotkas is the chief executive.

Good evening, sir. Thank you.

KAAREL KOTKAS, CEO, VERIFF: Good evening.

QUEST: What's it like being a unicorn?

KOTKAS: I believe at the scale of the business we are at then it means it's just a pure mathematics.

QUEST: It is, but it's also a sign of success and future growth, isn't it? It shows the market believes in you. And you're not a sort of dot-com boom

and bust.

KOTKAS: 100 percent. As it speaks for the fact that there has been a problem that has been solved, and it's better than before. And this is what

unicorns are about. They take a global problem and solve it 10 times better than before.

QUEST: What is it about Tallinn, Estonia, that enabled you to start here? Was it the ecosystem that existed from previous unicorns, from previous?

Why is it here and not, say, in Riga or elsewhere in the E.U.?

KOTKAS: I do believe in Estonia, at first we are having this understanding how small country needs to punch above their weight by being faster with

innovation, and this is definitely something that has been in our blood. Secondly, education. Education breeds smarter people and the talent it

takes to build global businesses and for sure, global success before have enabled a lot of funding from the founders of Wise and Skype to the new

ones.

QUEST: The thing that struck me, though, also, let's take your age verification. Now that's very much in vogue at the moment. A lot of

countries, of course, are introducing age restrictions on adult content online. That's all involved with age verification. Many things now are

using age verification. But I guess you have to stay one step ahead of the fraudsters and the shysters and those who would trick the system.

KOTKAS: 100 percent. As definitely the A.I. has enabled deepfake generation at the cost of nothing for everyone to use.

[16:45:05]

But it's not something that is like new. A.I. has just amplified the trends and the Hollywood production.

QUEST: But do you worry about that? Because you're in the business of age verification and identity. And that is intrinsically difficult because the

integrity of the final result has to be good.

KOTKAS: 100 percent.

QUEST: And it's not like sort of sending cat videos.

KOTKAS: 100 percent. And the responsibility lies in our understanding that you can't trust your eyes anymore. Everything leveraged by deepfakes

requires a very thorough data analysis where in our case, we analyzed over 5,000 data points to go beyond obvious and detect if something is wrong.

QUEST: The prime minister said to me, you know, this country is constantly under cyberattack from Russia or other elsewhere from external enemies. Is

this something you notice? Is this something you worry about and work on?

KOTKAS: I don't worry as much about cyberattacks as this is something that unfortunately is an area that every company in tech needs to work. More

importantly, what we need to ensure is that the attacks start from taxes. And this is where the verification speak for a very big importance.

QUEST: Now you and I need to have a serious conversation, sir, because I did your verification, all right, about my age. I took the picture.

KOTKAS: Yes.

QUEST: And I took the picture. And I'm afraid -- actually, you sort of got it right. You got the right decade. You got me in the 60s and you added two

years.

KOTKAS: I'm sorry to hear that.

QUEST: But --

KOTKAS: But you can for sure order booze online without any need for a document to be shown.

QUEST: Actually, it's very impressive. It's very impressive. I mean, how does it do it?

KOTKAS: We are --

QUEST: The secret.

KOTKAS: We are estimating the age. And when people are at the risk of being younger.

QUEST: Be careful. Be nice.

KOTKAS: Then we are also asking for an I.D. to be shown next. So I think at this case we can say you were able to get with this picture the

verification done. And I can say you're over 18 years old.

QUEST: I think, sir, you're a unicorn for a good reason. Thank you very much for joining us.

KOTKAS: Thank you.

QUEST: Thank you.

When we come back in just a moment on QUEST MEANS BUSINESS, high stakes for SpaceX. Two hours from now weeks ahead of the record setting IPO. I'll be

joined by an early investor in SpaceX, Chad Anderson. He is with me after the break. I'm sure he'll have some thoughts.

There you are, Chad. We'll talk to you and maybe have some thoughts about the difference between this side of the Atlantic and the other.

QUEST MEANS BUSINESS from Estonia.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:50:44]

QUEST: Now it's just roughly two hours from now, and SpaceX is set to carry out a test launch of its largest and most ambitious rocket. It's been

developed to support future missions, but the moon, yes, but certainly Mars is on the horizon. It's a new rocket prototype and more robust. The last

version exploded in November during a fueling test. So there's a lot on this, not just the exploration of space, but now that SpaceX has filed for

what's likely to be a record setting IPO.

Its prospectus reveals an unusual governance structure. Elon Musk controls 85 percent of the company's voting power. Its dual class share structure

prevents him essentially from ever being removed as CEO. Several SpaceX executives stand to get billion dollar rewards if the company reaches a

valuation of $1.75 trillion. The filing also shows that the extent that Musk is betting on A.I., he wants to launch extraterrestrial data centers

powered by the sun.

Good grief, what next?

The ventures fund Space Capital has been investing in SpaceX since '17. Its CEO, Chad Anderson, is with me.

What do you like about this company? Is it the audacity that is truly appealing?

CHAD ANDERSON, CEO, SPACE CAPITAL: This is a company that makes the impossible happen. They deliver the impossible consistently. They just do

it a little bit late. So this company has had a big, ambitious vision from the beginning, which has allowed them to attract the smartest engineers on

the planet to come and work because they -- the smartest people want to work on the hardest problems.

And SpaceX provides opportunity for both. And they have consistently executed on plans that people have said were impossible. And here we are,

you know, a couple of weeks away from the largest IPO ever. So people are buying into this vision.

QUEST: But you've got to also buy into, I mean, look, and this is the contradiction with the whole SpaceX thing. On the one hand, everybody loves

and is just agog at what's being done. But it has to make money. It has to make a large amounts of money to justify those valuations with a structure

that is unusual at best.

ANDERSON: Well, so, another thing that comes out of the S-1 is the fact that this is no longer a space company in the traditional sense. I mean,

most people, when they think about space, they think about the International Space Station. They think of the Apollo moon landing. This

company has access to orbit. They control the rails and access to orbit through their fleet of Falcon Nine launch vehicles and soon Starship.

And that provides them with an opportunity and enables their money making businesses. Starlink broadband, direct to cell. And next is orbital data

centers. So we are on the -- we're in the early innings of a multidecade infrastructure cycle. We have hundreds of billions of dollars of

infrastructure in orbit.

QUEST: Right.

ANDERSON: That is legacy systems that are being replaced. And we're building out an entirely new capability in orbit. Space and ground are

converging at a macro scale. This is a massive opportunity for the next several decades.

QUEST: The fascinating part is, of course, it's requiring large sums of money, and it's requiring investors to have faith and confidence, which is

the exact opposite, of course, of the quarterly reporting season. So to a large extent, what happens with tonight's rocket launch, of course, we all

wish a success, but it's not going to have a dramatic effect in a sense if it doesn't go perfectly, because research continues and the IPO will go

ahead.

ANDERSON: Yes. I mean, one of the big headlines that people are honing in on in this S-1 filing is that they lost nearly $5 billion. And the reason

for that is really a lot of capex spend. So this company is not going public and has some sort of incremental linear growth curve. This is a

company that is investing heavily in future growth in A.I. and in Starship.

[16:55:04]

And Starship is critical to the future of this company. It's what enables their money making businesses and these frontier markets that they're going

after. So the test flight tonight is going to be critical.

QUEST: Right.

ANDERSON: And we're super excited to watch and see what happens.

QUEST: Finally, you have no doubts that Musk is the best man to lead, even if the structure means he can't be shoved out the door.

ANDERSON: Well, it's not just me. You know, I don't think that that is going to stop anyone from buying this. You know, its people or allocators

are forced to make a decision on do you want access to this asset, you know, under these conditions or not at all. And it seems like given the

fact that it is so oversubscribed, you know that people are signing up for that happily.

QUEST: All right, Chad, I'm so glad and grateful that you took time to talk to us tonight, particularly since we're in Estonia, which of course is

unicorn central here in Europe. Thank you sir.

Now, if Elon Musk should need a bit of extra luck with this launch tonight, he could pay a visit here or just pay me to do it for him. It's said that

the buttons of the chimney sweeps coat bring you good luck. And so I went to the statue in honor of the chimney sweepers.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

QUEST: Bronze footprints in the middle of the street leading to a bit of good luck. They say Estonia's economic progress was hard work, but many

also believe the chimney sweep helped along with luck. This statue in the center of Tallinn has been here for people to have their say. Apparently

this is actually the real stuff that's chimney sweeps used to use.

And I'm told, sir, that if I polish your buttons and then make a wish, all will come true. I'm not sure why, but people also seem to be polishing his

nose.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

QUEST: I promise you, I'm not going to tell you what I wished for. I'll have a "Profitable Moment" after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

QUEST: Tonight's "Profitable Moment," since my first visit to Estonia in Tallinn some 20 odd years ago, I've returned and been ever more impressed

at what I see here because at the end of the day, bearing in mind where the country came from as a former Soviet country, one of the poorest, to see

what's here tonight, it's almost an insult to say it --

END