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Quest Means Business

BP Ousts Chair Over Serious Concerns About His Conduct; Brent Crude Rises As Iran Vows Retaliation For U.S. Strikes; Ukraine Uses Advanced Tech To Counter Russian Forces; E.U. Nations Argue For Tougher Trade Safeguards; Booming Protein Demand Driving Up Cost Of Whey; Ferrari's First Electric Vehicle Draws Major Backlash; Porsche Technicians Tell A.I. To Take A Back Seat. Aired 4-5p ET

Aired May 26, 2026 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[16:00:25]

RICHARD QUEST, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST, "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS": Last bit of the closing bell ringing on Wall Street. Goldman Sachs doing the honors.

And oh! Come on! One and a two and a one, two, three, four.

Trading is over. A bifurcated session heavily down on the Dow because of one or two stocks, which we will get to and the triple stack shows a very

different picture because you do have gains both on the NASDAQ and the S&P 500.

I am just wondering if that NASDAQ is at a record. We will check that over the course of the next few moments. Those are the markets and the main

events that you and I are going to chew over in the next hour.

BP has ousted its chair less than a year into his tenure, and the company cited serious concerns over his conduct.

Europe is sizzling under its first heatwave of the year. I will speak to the chair of the U.K.'s National Heat Risk Commission.

And from byproduct to hot commodity, the protein boom and Whey! Whey what? Whey has an unprecedented rally.

We are live in London.

It is Tuesday, it is May 26th. I am Richard Quest and yes, I mean business.

Yes, indeed. It is a record on the NASDAQ, I can now confirm.

We begin tonight with BP, one of the world's largest oil firms that has thrown out defenestrated its chair, Albert Manifold, after he had been in

the job barely eight months. The company, BP's Board has cited serious concerns related to governance standards, oversight and conduct. It said

the decision to remove him was unanimous.

BP shares fell sharply after the announcement, and yet Manifold was brought in to right the ship after BP's move into renewables and the resignation of

the CEO, Bernard Looney, and the new CEO. Now, it faces renewed questions about instability.

Anna Cooban is with me.

We do not know much about serious concerns, but, I mean, tell me what you have found out about what he was up to.

ANNA COOBAN, CNN BUSINESS AND ECONOMICS REPORTER: Well, you're right, Richard, this is -- you know, we don't know much about the detail and

really, the devil is in the detail here. I am sure this will come out in the fullness of time.

But we do know, this is incredibly serious. Some things you pointed out there, it was a unanimous decision. He only came into play in October and

this language used around serious concerns.

You know, there is reporting flying around Reuters being one of them that he had exhibited aggressive behavior towards colleagues. Now we don't know

exactly if that happened, but I will say that we can just cast our minds back to a month ago and clearly, all was not well at the Annual General

Meeting.

So we do know what happened there for certain is that there was a pretty significant investor rebellion, around 18 percent, which is an enormous

minority of investors voted to not reelect him as chairman.

Now, there are various reasons for this. Well, the big one being that these investors were unhappy that a certain motion hadn't been tabled in the

meeting. But whatever the details are around this, Richard, it was quite clear that investors were very disgruntled and unhappy with the way that

things were being conducted at the top.

And now, we are seeing today that for other reasons, these serious concerns that have been put forward, we now know that Manifold is out.

QUEST: The BP CEO is also new. She is just new in the job. Again, the rumor, gossip and scuttlebutt is that they didn't get on and that, she

resented -- look, I've heard one phrase that's doing the rounds that he was behaving more like an executive chairman according to one newspaper's

reporting. In other words, he was interfering in the day-to-day running.

Now, you know, we don't know because we haven't been told. But I guess we can assume that since regulator, since BP don't look like they have called

in the authorities and they don't look like they've called in the law enforcement, and they don't look like they're suggesting anything else like

that, this looks like it is down to the behavior within the company.

COOBAN: Well, this may be about personality. She came into, this position as CEO in April. She is, you know, trying to drive forward this strategy of

making it more about oil and gas, less about green energy. But I think, Richard, the fact that he is gone now during a period of BP actually doing

fairly well.

If you're only looking at BP's financial statement, you'd see a company right now that's doing pretty well. Its share price was rising pretty

steadily even before the Iran War, which really pushed up oil prices.

And we know that Manifold was overseeing that transformation. So the fact that he is gone at this point, you'd want to keep the company -- things

fairly stable when its going pretty well.

[16:05:05]

But the fact that he is gone suggests that, yes, there was some there was some clashes there, potentially.

QUEST: You know, who really gets the blame here? Because whatever he may have done and assuming it is not illegal or immoral, whatever he may have

done, the board did appoint -- you know, the Board voted him barely a year ago and this is a stunning admission of failure by the BP Board that they

would, within a year, they oust him.

COOBAN: Well, this is also the soap opera that is BP's leadership, Richard. You know, there were three CEO's in three years. We only have to cast our

minds back to 2023, Bernard Looney, he was out because he failed to disclose, you know, personal relationships.

You know, what investors want really is stability. So even though, you know, oil prices are high, share price for BP generally -- not today -- it

is doing pretty well. They also want to know that the ship is being steered by somebody that they can trust.

And quite clearly, with this revolving door of leadership, this is not sitting well with investors.

QUEST: So, you know, you're probably too young to remember BP's advertising slogan. I think it must be BP, Britain at its best. But some people will be

having a wry smile.

COOBAN: Yes, I don't remember that.

QUEST: All right, Anna, I am grateful. Thank you.

Yes. Just remove the knife.

Now, Oil prices are rising as Iran vows to retaliate for U.S. strikes. Brent is up about four percent now back towards a hundred. The U.S. claims

these strikes were in self-defense. Central Command spokesman accused Iranian boats of trying to put mines into the Strait of Hormuz.

The hope remains for a deal. The U.S. Secretary of State, Marco Rubio, said the two sides are working through the disputes over wording, and you've got

Iran and Qatar discussing de-escalation in a phone call.

Nic Robertson is in London.

Nic is with me now.

This is never ending, Nic. Will it, won't they? Can they, can't they? When, when not?

It just -- it is exhausting.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: And I think let's get ready to be more exhausted over more time because at the moment, we are

just talking about when is the Memorandum of Understanding going to be signed? Where is it going to be signed? When is the United States going to

be satisfied with the language that is involved here?

You know, the Pakistani mediators over the weekend have sort of got it in a place they thought the United States and Iran were comfortable with.

Clearly, it needs some adjustment. But as we both know, Richard, this is just to talk about the Strait of Hormuz, about getting that opened up

again, and this doesn't -- this Memorandum of Understanding doesn't get into those big hefty issues, the nuclear issues, the issues of proxies, the

issues of ballistic missiles, all of that.

So yes, expect more of this in the future.

QUEST: The reality is the markets want certainty, and even if they do get a deal, the supply chain is going to be broken for some months to come.

So putting the economics aside and just give me the geopolitical and strategic, I mean, who really has the whip hand at the moment in this? Is

it the Iranians or is it the Americans?

ROBERTSON: Look, in some ways, the Iranians have the whip hand and President Trump has just put out on Truth Social, a critique of anyone that

says essentially that the Iranians have the whip hand on this, but it is not a whip hand forever.

And as Secretary of State Marco Rubio pointed out today, neither China nor Russia nor any other country wants Iran to be able to extort tolls on the

Straits of Hormuz. So, this situation is untenable.

But the question at the moment is, what does Iran get to unpick the situation and back away from it? How long can they hold out? They say

longer than President Trump. Weve heard all of these cases before, but you're right, it is going to take a long time to get supplies back up and

running properly.

And of course, what everyone wants in the region, and I think this is -- this is the key point here -- whatever deal comes out of this has to be one

where Iran cannot go back and put these pressures on the Strait of Hormuz and bring the world to its sort of knees, or this roller coaster, at least

for the economy and for the price of oil and gas products.

QUEST: Okay, so Donald Trump said over the weekend, I don't do bad deals and Lindsey Graham was also -- Lindsey Graham was also very concerned that

the deal looked like it was going to be at least creating a fudge, a wiggle room on the question of the nuclear waste or the nuclear dust.

And so that really is the -- I mean, the quotes I see again and again are "you can't trust the Iranians, whatever they promise that they're going to

do about not moving towards a nuclear weapon."

[16:10:10]

ROBERTSON: Look, the history of the Iranians is a very poor one when it comes to living up to what they've said that they would do in terms of the

last nuclear deal that they had, the JCPOA, 2015, President Obama, a deal that President Trump trashes and belittles.

But this was a deal where even at the get go, the obligations on Iran to come clean about their past military uses for nuclear enriched uranium,

they didn't do that. They gave the International Atomic Energy Agency inspectors a really hard time about getting the full access that they were

entitled to as part of that deal.

So Iran's track record is poor, and I was speaking with a very senior regional diplomat, very senior, just a couple of weeks ago, and they made

it very clear, we don't care who downgrades the enriched uranium, where it does, which mountain gets dug up, what is important to us, they said, is

that there is an inspection, a credible inspection process that goes on in perpetuity simply because in the region they do not trust Iran because of

its past track record.

Where is that in the small print of what is being discussed? We have no idea. But that's the minimum that countries in the region are looking for,

and they want that commitment from Iran.

QUEST: Nic Robertson, I am grateful for you joining us tonight. Thank you.

Now, Ukraine, the E.U. and others are condemning Russia's warning of systemic strikes on Kyiv. This threat comes days after the country, Russia,

used a new hypersonic ballistic missile while attacking the Ukrainian capital. It was one of the biggest bombardments of Kyiv since the war

began.

Ukrainian forces, for their part, are trying to take the fight farther into Russia. So CNN's -- our own, Nick Paton Walsh has taken a look at Ukraine's

Deep Strike Drone Unit.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT (voice over): President Trump once said Ukraine had no cards, but now they've

built themselves a new deck.

We are now with perhaps Russia's most keenly sought target in the war, a Deep Strike Ukrainian Drone Unit launching this night a wave of 200 attack

drones into Russia.

WALSH (on camera): The issue here is the scale potentially 20 drones being launched just from here, and three or four other locations around here also

involved in tonight's attack.

The sheer number overwhelming, it seems much of Russia's air defenses and causing persistent embarrassment to the Kremlin.

WALSH (voice over): Working fast in silence, knowing an error with the fuel or explosives or launch could kill them all.

WALSH (on camera): They are a key target for the Russian Shahed drones flying overhead, constantly interrupting their work, which is going to go

on all night.

WALSH (voice over): Close to here, Russian strikes have just hit Ukrainian civilians, and in Russian's Stavropol, these Ukrainian drones hit.

(UNIDENTIFIED MALE speaking in foreign language.)

WALSH (voice over): The mayor, telling Russians there to stay indoors.

In another field, another technological leap is at work. Jet boosters used to get drones to their 120 mile an hour speed in just seconds.

At their base, one screen is a glimpse of a world order turned on its head. Dozens of Ukrainian drones roaming inside Russia code coordinates, targets

A.I. powered, pulsing on the screen faster than your eyes can read.

Russia, often seen as the third largest military power, preyed upon by a series of laptops.

VECTOR, DEEP STRIKE COMMANDER, UKRAINIAN DEFENSE INTELLIGENCE (through translator): It is our biggest advantage, and why it is so hard for Russia

to destroy this program, because we split up. We don't have any common centers, and we use dozens of places.

Also, the software gives us a chance to work with thousands of UAVs.

WALSH (voice over): The Liutyi drone can take a huge payload over 1,200 miles. There are decoys and a jet powered drone, they say seems to appear

like a rocket on Russian radar.

VECTOR (through translator): Those are decoys. We send hundreds of them. Some are empty, some with a payload. The payload is small, but it is enough

to destroy air defense systems.

WALSH (voice over): It is dizzying. The speed of evolution, adaptation, ingenuity. Ukraine two years ago, begging for old American missiles to hit

just inside Russia's borders, but now it builds itself and launches so many drones, often as deep as Russian Siberia, even Kremlin loyalists are

questioning Putin's endgame.

Now the West wants to learn from what Ukraine had to do to survive when it didn't get the help it needed.

[16:15:07]

Each leap advantage lasts just months before the other side catches up. Ukraine is ahead for now, but only because its learned it will likely be on

its own when it is not.

Nick Paton Walsh, CNN, Eastern Ukraine.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

QUEST: Gosh! Splendid reporting from Nick Paton Walsh there.

When we come back after the break -- I didn't get much sleep last night. Why? Because of the record setting heatwave that is scorching Western

Europe. It was absolutely stonking hot.

And now, a government adviser -- U.K. government -- is advising the U.K. to establish temperature rules for employees.

We will talk about it after the break. In a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

QUEST: So across the continent of Europe, we are grappling with exceptionally early heatwave, and it is a heat dome that's causing record

high temperatures, 35 degrees Celsius here in London, putting it in old money, that's around 95f degrees Fahrenheit. And indeed, the record for

highest temperature at this point in May was broken for two days in a row in the U.K. No wonder I couldn't sleep last night. It was so hot in the

capital.

Most of -- air conditioning -- what's that? Most of Western Europe is 10 to 15 degrees Celsius above normal for this year, 33 degrees in Paris.

As for Madrid, Pau Mosquera is there in the Spanish capital. How hot is it there?

PAU MOSQUERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Richard, right now the situation has improved a little bit. We are now at 27 degrees Celsius, which is around 80

degrees Fahrenheit and we can say that it was way worse just a few hours ago when the mercury rose to 31 degrees Celsius, around 88.

And many that are watching us from home may think that as the night is falling now, the situation should improve even more, but this is not really

going to happen. So from today and on, we are going to face the so-called tropical nights, which means that the temperatures won't drop from 20

degrees Celsius.

So this will make surely a restless and uncomfortable night for many of the people that will get this night here in the Spanish capital -- Richard.

QUEST: Okay, so I guess the core question is how long this -- now, I know in the U.K. we are expecting temperatures to drop over the next few days.

Not hugely, but to more comfortable levels.

[16:20:07]

Is there a feeling that this is now set in for the summer? Maybe not at quite these very high temperatures, but this is what we've got to look

forward to for the months ahead.

MOSQUERA: Well, this is not quite clear yet because the Spanish Weather Agency said today that almost surely, these temperatures will still

continue at least until the end of the week. And also the worst is still to come, because from tomorrow, Wednesday and on, these temperatures are going

to get even more intense.

So here, we will brace for something like 35 degrees Celsius which is like in London, just like you highlighted before, 95 degrees Fahrenheit.

And the situation, well, it is quite unusual because this is something that normally happens on a month of July, for example. But we are still three

weeks-and-a-half ahead of the summer, really starting.

So now the main question is, are we going to still be facing these temperatures for the rest of the week -- of the weeks until the summer

starts? So far, the only clue and the only sure that we know is that we are going to have this until the rest of this week -- Richard.

QUEST: All right, thank you, Pau. Thank you for joining us.

Go and have a drink. Put it on my bill.

Now, the record temperatures are sparking a discussion in the United Kingdom about when is it too hot to go to work. A government adviser is

calling on the British government to set maximum temperatures for rules for the workplace. Other European countries, including Spain and Belgium,

already have them, especially when it comes to outdoor work.

And of course, there are countries in the Gulf where absolutely, they have these upper limits.

A report by the U.S. Joint Economic Committee says working in extreme weather has an economic impact. In 2021, data showed more than 2.5 billion

hours of labor were lost to heat exposure. Agriculture and construction being the worst. Emma Howard Boyd is the chair of U.K.'s National Heat Risk

Commission. She is also a Professor of U.K. Adaptation and Resilience at the LSE.

Good to see you, ma'am. Thank you for joining us.

At one level -- at one level, you know, you think of all the times here in Britain we complain about the cold and suddenly we get some decent hot

weather. And, you know, you sort of, ah, at last! But this is something different, isn't it? This is persistent high temperatures that are

dangerous or are problematic for work.

EMMA HOWARD BOYD, CHAIR OF U.K.'S NATIONAL HEAT RISK COMMISSION: Absolutely, and I think what we have seen both here in the U.K. and around

Europe is that these temperatures are higher than usual, but earlier in the year and I think this is what is causing concern. But this concern has been

building here in the U.K. since 2022, when we experienced a head of when we were expecting it to hit the U.K., 40 degrees heat for the first time.

And I think this started sparking the discussion around maximum temperatures in the workplace.

QUEST: You see, I am fascinated, adaptation and resilience is what it is about. I mean, the larger question of why it is so hot, et cetera, we can

leave for another day.

But what would you recommend? What is best practice say you should down tools when it gets as hot as what?

BOYD: We are beginning to see in different parts of Europe the introduction of maximum temperatures. But very often guided by the type of work that is

being done. Those that are working outside perhaps also looking at changing the hours of work, thinking about the clothes that people are wearing.

And again, since we launched the National Heat Risk Commission, I've been approached by academics who have been researching some of the uniforms that

our fire officers, our police officers, those working in hospitals and care homes are wearing that just add to the extreme heat and how people are

experiencing it as they go to work.

So it is not a straightforward answer, but I think what the Committee on Climate Change has done and rightly done, is set out the stall for a debate

to understand at what temperature we need to start thinking about the adaptations necessary to coolers in the workplace.

QUEST: There is also a prejudice, in a sense, against what you're suggesting in some -- in some -- quarters, on the grounds of, oh, it is

just hot weather and Britain spends most -- you know, if you get three brits together, you'll have half a dozen complaints about the weather, cold

or hot at some point of the year.

[16:25:07]

So getting people to take this seriously is part of the challenge.

BOYD: Another key message that the committee on climate change, really focused in on, in their well-adapted U.K. report, was the fact that our

infrastructure, our homes, our buildings have not been built for the climate that we are now experiencing.

So the temperatures that we are talking about are the outside temperature, but we are finding that so many of our homes. You talked earlier about

having a bad night's sleep. When you get to the point where temperatures aren't cooling and we are not cooling our bodies overnight, you start

seeing the knock on consequences from a health perspective and that can also lead to health and safety issues; safety issues, particularly those

using dangerous equipment where you need to be alert.

We've seen these impacts take place in other parts of the world, which are hotter than ours. But again, going back to the fact that in London, 40-

degree heat, we had in many office blocks, air conditioning, but not air conditioning used to operating in 40-degree heat. So some of it failed

during that episode.

QUEST: I am grateful. We will talk more about it as the summer moves on and we see exactly how good or bad, depending on your point of view, we will

get to talk to it more. I am grateful, ma'am. Thank you for joining us.

We continue tonight: The U.S. and Chinese Presidents didn't make any major trade announcements when they met, as for what my guest says, he believes

they will both need personality transplants to make the deal.

Chad Brown will give me an idea of exactly what that transplant should look like. It is QUEST MEANS BUSINESS.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:30:04]

QUEST: You're very welcome. I'm Richard Quest. Together we'll have QUEST MEANS BUSINESS, a great deal more.

It's a case of coffee, pop, tarts, donuts. Look, they might be what we want to eat, but now it's all about protein. It seems to be added to everything

lately. It has sent the price of whey, which is, of course, an important component, soaring. Ferraris unveiled its first fully electric vehicle. The

response has been not so great. But before we get to any of it, I need to bring you the news because this is CNN, and here on this network, the news

always comes first.

Europe is sweltering amid a deadly and alarmingly early heat wave. The United Kingdom hit record high temperatures for the month of May for two

days in a row, and most of Western Europe is enduring temperatures far higher than normal. Scientists are warning of even more extreme heat in the

years ahead.

In Belgium, the police say four people were killed, including two children, when a school minibus was hit by a train. Five children were seriously

injured in the collision. Police say the bus appeared to plow through a barrier at a level crossing. The driver, who was killed in the crash, had

no previous convictions.

President Trump got a physical examination today and says everything checked out perfectly. Mr. Trump traveled to the Walter Reed Hospital for

his checkup. The president is 80 in just a few weeks, has been seen falling asleep during events at the White House. And the reporters have noticed

swollen ankles and bruises on the hands.

Four of Europe's largest economies are now calling on Brussels to hit back harder against unfair trade. France, Italy and the Netherlands and Spain

say the E.U. needs new trade weapons, apparently in response to China. It's a paper that sounds the alarm on trade partners with industrial

overcapacity. Some of the proposed remedies, broader anti-dumping measures, more powerful safeguards, higher threshold of local content.

It's all going to be considered on Friday as whether or not it should move forward.

Chad Bown is with me, the author of "How to Win a Trade War." He was the chief economist at the U.S. State Department under President Biden.

It is an exceptionally lively read, Chad, for a trade book, which now seems to be the hallmark of it. But at the end of the day, I mean, what we are

experiencing from liberation day is the equivalent of having us having been told the earth is flat. All our orthodoxies that you and I grew up

following were thrown out the window.

CHAD BOWN, FORMER CHIEF ECONOMIST, U.S. STATE DEPARTMENT: That's exactly right. The world has changed, perhaps forever. And what we try to do in

this book is to explain why it's changed, and then help to lay out a roadmap for everybody to understand what to do about it. And as you

mentioned, Europe is thinking hard about this right now. They're contemplating what to do with all of these imports coming in from China

especially.

And part of the book is walking through that, you know, saying how in this new world, you've got to tackle those kinds of problems that a major

economy like China introduces.

QUEST: Right. But what the book points out is when you are the largest bully on the block, as in the U.S., or in China's case to a certain extent,

you have a leverage that others don't have. And when you have the sclerotic decision-making process of the union, you're not helped either.

BOWN: That's right. I think the challenge the European Union is confronting today, or at least one of the big challenges they face, is they're actually

fighting a trade war on two fronts. And the first one, the one that's being waged against them by the United States and by President Trump doesn't

really make a whole lot of sense because when it comes down to it Europe and the United States confront similar challenges, have the same basic

concerns when it comes to China.

China's excess capacity for industrial production, Europe and the United States's reliance, excessive dependance on China for certain products like

rare earths and permanent magnets that it weaponized last year. The two need to do something on it together. And right now, Europe is being forced

to go at it alone.

QUEST: So, Chad, do you believe that we've seen a fundamental change in the trading system as a result of what President Trump has done, something that

will not easily -- I mean, and I'm not just talking about whether we're talking about multilateralism and the WTO, et cetera., but that actually

this idea of the U.S. being aggressive on trade.

[16:35:03]

We're not going back -- as Mark Carney talked about at Davos, we're not going back to the old days.

BOWN: We're definitely not going back to the old days. I think one of the big challenges that we all need to understand, though, is this isn't just a

President Trump thing, because if you believe that, then you might think that, well, if we get past, you know, 2028 in the next election, maybe the

world will go back to the way it was. And the issue really is it's not about President Trump. The really big concern has to do with China.

Its economic system is very different from ours, and it wants a world where other countries are reliant on China for our supply chains but China is not

reliant on the rest of the world for their supply chains, and to be able to take advantage of those fundamental, you know, non-dependencies to their

advantage. And that's just not a world that we're used to. It's not the world that the trade system was set up to accommodate, but it is the world

that we now have to confront.

QUEST: Do you see the president, the U.S. president, as being conflicted? On the one hand, he does like strong leaders and the strongman principle,

but he's never liked China when it comes to trade. He has railed -- it was the Japanese at one point, but he has railed against the Chinese for years,

if not decades, on their trade policy. And now he finds himself somewhat conflicted because he also does like this very strong put forward.

BOWN: I think that's right. And I think the other big challenge confronting President Trump is the easiest way out of this, many of these problems that

the United States faces with China today, would really be if the United States didn't go at it alone, that if it really did work with countries out

there that have the same interests, right? If you're thinking about rare earths in the shortages we face last year, there are countries out there

that have had more success that we could learn from and that we could team up with.

Japan and Australia have a head start in tackling some of these problems. So I think the big -- but President Trump, he doesn't really like working

with others, doesn't really seem to like relying on the strength of others. And I do think that needs to change if the United States is going to make

progress in tackling the really, really big problem that is China.

QUEST: Right. I will add, I will add a postscript, Chad, to that. Not only does he not like it, but he's also pissed them all off with his own attacks

and so they turn around now and say, why, why would -- anyway, but we'll talk about that more in the future.

I'm grateful, sir. Thank you for joining us. Thank you.

BOWN: Thanks for having me.

QUEST: Protein. All right. We all know it's good for you. Well, if you're building a muscle and you're wanting to look fit and healthy, et cetera, et

cetera. But now protein is popping up everywhere. It's raising the price of the whey protein or the whey component. So we'll be talking about that

after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:40:34]

QUEST: The protein faction of the world. Protein everywhere. It seems as though as a new protein product on the market and many of them, well,

you've got Starbucks and Dunkin, each have a line of protein. Pop tarts as a protein pastry and even cup of noodles as protein ramen noodles. Some of

them contain whey protein, and the craze has risen the way. I mean, talk about never mind the muscles being jacked up.

The price has 36 percent over the last year. Before this whey was an off of curds, and it was primarily used as fertilizer and animal feed, it's also a

byproduct of the cheese-making process. So some dairy groups, including Arla Foods, are trying to produce more whey and get in on the protein boom.

Keeping up with demand is the problem.

Luis Cubel is the CEO of Arla Foods Ingredients.

Are you surprised, Luis? Are you surprised that this offshoot, this runner bee is now so popular that whey is what it's all about?

LUIS CUBEL, CEO, ARLA FOODS INGREDIENTS: Good evening, first of all, Richard, and thank you for welcoming me today, this evening here from

Europe.

We are in many ways, of course, surprised to see what we have seen in the recent, I would say, two to three quarters of continued soaring prices also

in the global market. We see generally a trend where protein is somewhat to be a mega trend. So like you also said, if you go two or three decades

back, it was more seen as a waste product coming as a byproduct from the cheese. But today also it's clearly a nutritional, very strong product.

And then also a product that is required for many consumers today. So as you said, a lot of new product developments coming containing protein, many

of them animal protein, many of them dairy and whey ingredients. And that means also that the consumers today are much more focused on what they

digest in general.

QUEST: How much of it is a fad? I mean, to those of us who've been working out for some years, we've always had a, you know, protein shake after the

workout, or maybe another one at home. But now I go to the supermarket, protein yogurt pouches. You go to buy a chocolate bar, a protein version.

My sort of -- you know, I'm a firm believer in the smell test. And I'm not sure how you can put protein into large numbers of donuts and they can be

healthy and good for you.

CUBEL: No, likely not more healthier, but it's also about consumers and their perception of what they believe are right. And I think many consumers

are thinking, if I digest something which is maybe not fully correct, and if it's also added by protein, then they're convinced they're doing

something good for their own body, so to speak. But in general, I would say that it should not be focused in these kind of diets.

It should be more into the more healthy diets where in fact, like you said, also milk based beverages coming from dairy as such, and then being

enriched by further proteins. That's clearly some of the elements we see are very strong in this space of health diets as of today.

QUEST: It's a -- and then you have, of course, plant based. You've got all the other variants of protein. In your opinion, and I realize this is how

long as a piece of string. In your opinion, sir, what is the most effective protein you can take?

CUBEL: We believe strongly and also based on science that in general you will say dairy as such is a superfood. And whey comes from the -- as a

waste product from the cheese manufacturing, which does mean also the dairy category as such. And we also know that there's a lot of good amino acid

profiles in whey and in particular in high protein products which are being served into the market today, and also shows that the consumers, what knows

what is right to digest, and that it comes to the favor of whey ingredients, which I said is highly scientific evidence also that those are

likely in the market to be the best proteins.

QUEST: Right. You've got a problem, haven't you, in a sense, because on the one hand, you want to take advantage of a of a boom or a trend of a rising

market. And we're certainly seeing that with the price. But on the other hand, you dare not spend too much money and invest too much because trends

disappear and things can go back to where they were.

[16:45:04]

But even at a higher level, where do you stand on it overall?

CUBEL: I think generally we have been standing on being a manufacturer for us as a company for four and a half decades that we continuously have

focused on new innovation, new investments also. And over the years, we invested heavily in this part of our business. And we see also peers in

industry doing exactly the same. And that's in favor of over time also to ensure that we get more products to the market as the demand also will

grow, not only in the context of the protein trend as such by consumers, but also supporting the increasing demand for the GLP-1 medication.

QUEST: I'm so grateful you joined us, sir. Next time we'll talk in Denmark. Thank you, sir.

Ferrari. Ferrari shares fell in Milan and New York. The company revealed its first fully electric vehicle. The design has been under heavy criticism

and we'll explain why.

It's QUEST MEANS BUSINESS. Good evening.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

QUEST: Ferrari is moving big time into EVs, and the reaction to its first fully electric model has been polarizing, to say the least. It's the Lucha.

It'll cost $640,000, and it appears fans are disappointed by the way it looks. Even Italy's deputy prime minister said it looks nothing like a

Ferrari. As a result, Ferrari shares fell sharply. One investor says Ferrari is being punished for an aesthetic disappointment.

But perhaps underneath this, there is really the core question of whether there's even a market for electric sports cars.

Lauren Fix, how good to see you, Lauren. It's been too long. "The Car Coach" is an automotive industry analyst with me from Buffalo.

Now let's get -- never mind. I'll get, I'll ask you what you think of this car at the end. But before we do, it's the philosophical question of

whether a Ferrari technically, yes, but philosophically, should it ever be an EV?

LAUREN FIX, AUTOMOTIVE INDUSTRY ANALYST: No, it shouldn't. It's a hypercar and I'm actually a Ferrari owner so I will tell you, it's insulting to

those of us that have these cars and its historical significance between racing and design and everything that says Italian. It looks like a Nissan

Leaf. And the comments not just from automotive journalists, but literally people from everywhere are saying the same thing.

[16:50:04]

And it's reminding them of the Jaguar debacle, and here we go again. Did they not learn from watching their competitors? Apparently not.

QUEST: What's wrong with it? I'm looking at the car now. I mean, I agree it's not about the muscle power. It doesn't have the -- that you might

expect.

FIX: Roar, yes.

QUEST: But it looks perfectly.

FIX: Yes.

QUEST: It looks perfectly respectable.

FIX: It looks like a car. Now, if you're going to spend $640,000 on a car, and let's be honest, nobody buys the base on these cars. They special order

a color. They get special materials inside and they make it personalized. Many of the Ferraris that are sold today are custom ordered. But what's

really happening is they kind of got forced into the compliance of producing this car. And once you're deep into it, much like other brands

that have to produce it, because to stop saying, no, we're not going to do it, the cost is so significant that it's just a total loss.

QUEST: OK.

FIX: We saw Porsche do the same thing. They were going to make all their 911s electric. Well, they changed their mind. And then you see other brands

starting to shift, too. Toyota and Lexus are saying, you know what, we're going to offer hybrid, we'll offer electric and we're going to make really

small numbers. So I think what Ferraris forced to do, because they're really in a catch 22, and with the stock dropping, that's a huge sign that

nobody is asking for this.

What they'll do is they'll make the absolute minimum and force the dealers to sell them to people who really want the status and to say, I want the

next good car, so I have to buy this it car in the meantime.

QUEST: Excellent. Now what I don't understand is how you go through a production process and you don't get that feedback that tells you how bad

it is as you're going through it. Now, I know, look, everything from the Microsoft, we've seen it again and again. But with Ferrari, how did they

not hear that people were going to hate it?

FIX: Well, I think there's twofold on this. I have a friend who owns a dealer and I was talking to him about this. I said, hey, how are you going

to sell these things? He goes, well, they have to drink the Kool-Aid because they're dealers. So they will and they will sell them to those

people who say, I want the next, you know, Testarossa style car, the next X, X, whatever special edition. In order to get that, they have to buy

something else.

That's how they sold the (INAUDIBLE), which is their SUV. People were spending $900,000 on an SUV and then trading them in a year later to get

the next car. And in order to do so, they took a huge hit financially. So they know they'll sell some. But when they talk to the customers, the

customers don't want this. This is the same thing happened with Jaguar, the same thing with Mercedes and their AMG GT, or Porsche with their Taycan,

which is a beautiful car.

The dealers don't even want them back. There's an 80 percent loss the moment you drive it. So if you've got unlimited cash, then you can get

yourself on the list for the next cool car. But for the average person, no one is going to spend $640,000 on a car when I could buy a Tesla, a Nissan

Leaf, a Toyota Prius. They all look the same. And so we've seen the results with Rolls-Royce that people are selling them.

QUEST: Oh, you're -- you're a harsh woman to please on these matters. But I'll tell you what. Make me a promise, Lauren.

FIX: Kind of. (INAUDIBLE).

QUEST: Make me a promise. If I come up to Buffalo, you'll take me for a ride in your Ferrari.

FIX: Absolutely. I will promise you, you will fall in love with the sound of a V12.

QUEST: Oh, right. Thank you. Good. Lauren, good to see you. Thank you.

Now, change may be coming at the high end sports cars, but the technicians at Porsche, which we've just been talking about, say they feel safe from

automation and A.I.

Ryan Young explains why, as he visited a plant in Georgia.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DARIAN MORENO, PORSCHE TECHNOLOGY APPRENTICESHIP PROGRAM: A car requires a human touch.

DOMINIC WAGNER, PORSCHE TECHNOLOGY APPRENTICESHIP PROGRAM: You have to have that human interaction.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A.I. cannot do what a trained technician can do.

STEPHANIE ALSTON, EMPLOYMENT RECRUITER, CEO BGG ENTERPRISES: People are concerned and rightfully so.

RYAN YOUNG, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Workers across all industries are growing anxious as advances in artificial intelligence

and automation technologies move deeper into the workplace.

Goldman Sachs estimates that as many as 300 million full-time jobs are exposed globally over the next decade as automation technologies from

robotics to algorithmic systems evolve.

ALSTON: People are afraid because they don't know if their jobs will be next.

YOUNG (voice-over): But Porsche believes their well-paid technicians will stay in high demand.

JOSHUA FINKBEINER, PORSCHE TECHNOLOGY APPRENTICESHIP PROGRAM: Even if A.I. advances further in the future, I just personally don't see A.I. ever

taking over our jobs.

YOUNG: How important is it for you to be able to put your hand in the spaces, to be able to touch all?

RANDY BURNSWORTH, AFTERSALES TECHNICAL TRAINING MANAGER, PORSCHE CARS NORTH AMERICA: Oh, it's very important. Something is starting to deteriorate. You

know, there's normally kind of like a pliability to some of these rubbers.

YOUNG: Right.

BURNSWORTH: Right? And if you can touch it and you're starting to feel that it's hardening, then you know. And one of the things, too, that's super

important is smell. It's an instant clue that something is not right.

MORENO: I can never see a robot, you know, bending their, you know, parts to get into a crevice or a little point where a human could? You know, a

human touch.

[16:55:06]

WAGNER: A robot can't go through and notice some things like noises, even just small things that you might overlook. You have to go back through,

kind of go back and forth. It's never always cut and dry.

YOUNG: Let's have some fun.

MARC PISCITELLI, ASSISTANT CHIEF INSTRUCTOR, PORSCHE EXPERIENCE CENTER: Keep going, keep going, and lift. And then just hop on the brake. This car

is like a scalpel to a surgeon.

YOUNG: What could you say to someone who's even thinking about the car industry or being a high level technician?

PISCITELLI: Do it. Even when I was younger, growing up, kind of the trades didn't have a bad, you know, stigma to them, but they were always kind of

pushed to the side. Whereas right now, the people that are getting into the automotive industry have so much more growth ahead of them.

YOUNG (voice-over): The U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics projects that employment of auto technicians and mechanics is projected to grow around 4

percent over the next eight years. Just under 34,000 jobs.

ALSTON: I don't think there's really such thing as an A.I. proof job. It's just those jobs that are A.I. resilient. And even when you think about

mechanics and those jobs and the skilled workforce, I personally believe that right now they're not going to replace the worker. They're just going

to help improve efficiencies and make the tools better.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Theres no way that you couldn't make money doing this. The demand is there for them.

FINKBEINER: It's very nice knowing that when I get out of here, I'll pretty much have a guaranteed job.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

QUEST: Fascinating. I think he's right. I mean, that's exactly what's going to happen.

We'll take a "Profitable Moment" after the break. Quest MEANS BUSINESS. Good evening.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

QUEST: Tonight's "Profitable Moment." Brits love to talk about the weather. It is a national obsession. And really, we have a lot to go anywhere now at

the moment in Britain or certainly in London, and people go, why? It's very hot, very hot. I like hot, but not this hot. Oh, it's too hot, too hot. And

it will go on and on. And then it will rapidly turn into, I wish we had air conditioning, but we haven't got any air conditioning.

Well, we don't have air conditioning in Britain. And on and on it goes. Of course, it will be winter soon enough and everybody will be talking about

how cold it is. But the reality is, what we brought you tonight is absolutely the change that's taking place. That will have implications for

all of us, how we live, how we dress, how we work, when we work, and of course, how we go about cooling and heating our homes.

It's going to come. The only question is how much complaining we all have to do in Britain at the moment because in case anybody hasn't told you at

the moment, it's very hot. Very, very, very hot.

And that's QUEST MEANS BUSINESS for tonight. I'm Richard Quest in London. Whatever you're up to in the hours ahead, please stay safe and stay cool,

and of course I hope it's profitable. I'll see you tomorrow.

END