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Quest Means Business
President Trump Touts Economic Agenda Ahead Of Midterms; Spanish P.M.: This Painful Climate Emergency Is Our New Reality; New U.S.-Canada Bridge Opens After Trump Imposes New Tariffs; Two Small United States Business Challenge New Tariffs In Court; Lawsuit Takes Aim At Justification For Latest United States Tariffs; Nvidia Forms Trade Group To Promote Open Source A.I. Aired 4-5p ET
Aired July 27, 2026 - 16:00:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[16:00:18]
PAULA NEWTON, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST: So a mixed day for markets as investors look towards the Fed meeting later this week. Now, the Dow as you
see there rose about a half a percent. The S&P though was flat. Those are the markets and these are the main events: President Trump is in Michigan
celebrating his tariff policies. It is creating tensions though just across the border. We speak with the mayor of Windsor, Ontario.
Oil prices fall sharply as President Trump says talks are ongoing with Iran, still other threats to supply remain, and we speak to music producer
Brian Eno on why he is calling for the British Prime Minister to raise his taxes.
Live from New York, it is Monday, July 27th. I am Paula Newton, in for Richard Quest and this is QUEST MEANS BUSINESS.
And good evening, everyone.
U.S. President Donald Trump is in the battleground state of Michigan, trying to convince voters that his economic plans are indeed working. The
President is at General Motors proving ground, where he met with GM CEO Mary Barra. Mr. Trump told an assembled crowd that auto sales and jobs in
Michigan are booming because of his tariffs. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: But I also put a 25 percent tariff on all foreign trucks. So, I called Mary about a year ago
and I said, I hear that foreign trucks are killing us. She said, that's true. I said, congratulations. I am going to put a 25 percent tariff for
the foreign trucks, and you are doing a phenomenal business now with trucks.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NEWTON: Steve Contorno is live with the President in Milford, Michigan.
I mean, look, Steve, it is pretty plain here. The President is riding that tailwind of tariffs. As far as he is concerned, it is helping the economy.
I am just wondering what kind of a reception he got there besides a good one?
We know so many of the union leaders there and the CEOs agree with his tariff policy.
STEVE CONTORNO, CNN REPORTER: Absolutely, and many voters here do as well, especially given the amount of outreach he puts toward this part of the
state, and the auto worker community over the years, it has been one of his biggest shifts and supports going back to 2016 is the number of union
households and auto working households who support the President.
But listen, his rhetoric today, which is to say that tariffs are helping this industry, that foreign countries were "ripping us off," that this is
the best economic year in recent history.
You know, the rhetoric so far is not matching the reality, and that is where the challenge is for Trump and for Republicans heading into these
midterm elections.
He says that manufacturing is booming. There are actually 25,000 less manufacturing jobs in the automotive industry than there was when he took
office. The unemployment rate in Michigan is at five percent, that's 44th in the country out of 50 states. There is even higher unemployment rate in
the Detroit area, where so many of these automakers are based.
So interestingly, Trump had a moment of reflection in this speech where he talked about all of the work he is putting into getting manufacturing back
online. These factories don't often open overnight and eventually someone, not him, will be taking credit for it when his presidency is ending.
Whether or not that actually happens remains to be seen, but the reality is this: Donald Trump and Republicans are facing an electorate that so far is
not feeling the effects of his economy. They are not feeling like it has been an economic boom in Michigan more than most states, is bearing the
brunt of some of these tariff policies that are hitting people's pocketbooks.
So that is the challenge for Republicans in the weeks ahead. There are 99 days until the election. Michigan will hold a primary election in just
eight days. And you can imagine that this is going to be one of those spots. This community here around Detroit is going to be one to continue to
check in on as we get closer and closer to November -- Paula.
NEWTON: Yes, Steve, I am glad that you laid out the basics really there of it being a battleground state, not just going into the next presidential
election, but obviously into the midterms. There has been some criticism, in fact, that the auto industry, despite the fact that CEOs and some of the
unions support this, that they have not been doing so well when it comes to the actual base case for these tariffs.
You did highlight some of the challenges ahead for Michigan and unemployment. I am wondering if the Trump is listening to any of that,
especially when it comes to that issue of manufacturing jobs.
CONTORNO: Well, when you listen to Trump talk, he seems to suggest that there are no problems at all in his economy, that it is the best economic
year in history.
[16:05:10]
He touted earlier today the number of times that the stock market has hit an all-time high. He laughed off the affordability problems that so many
people are facing, saying that it is just something that he inherited and he is going to fix it, and don't worry about it.
The problem is, when you go back to 2024, when he won this state and he was very successful here, it was on a message of, I am going to fix this and I
am going to fix it very quickly.
Well, we are now more than a year-and-a-half into his second term, and some of the challenges that we faced economically as a country, that Detroit
faced specifically because it is so tied to the manufacturing industry that has not been fixed and so he is having the difficulty of reaching the bar
that he set as a candidate and many voters remember that. And that is why it is so problematic for Republicans heading into these midterm elections,
not just in Michigan, but in battlegrounds and swing districts all across this country.
NEWTON: Steve Contorno will continue to be watching the President live. I see him there still on stage. He likely will continue to speak for some
time. We will return to this ahead the next hour.
Steve Contorno for us live with the President. Appreciate it.
Now, meantime, the other big story we are following here, firefighters in Spain and France are working nonstop to contain massive wildfires in both
countries. French authorities say it could take months before the fires near Bordeaux are fully extinguished.
High temperatures and tinder dry conditions around Madrid are making things extremely difficult for firefighters there. The flames have already
scorched more than 28,000 hectares. Spain's Prime Minister warns this devastating situation is becoming the new normal.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PEDRO SANCHEZ, SPANISH PRIME MINISTER (through translator): What we are living is not a succession of isolated events. As has been said before, it
is the most painful expression of a climate emergency that is making sixth generation wildfires more voracious, heat waves more frequent and as a
result, our territory more vulnerable.
This is no longer an exception, it is the new reality. Summers are becoming increasingly difficult, destructive and therefore deadly.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NEWTON: The Prime Minister of Spain there.
Melissa Bell has more now on the situation in France.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MELISSA BELL, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice over): An inferno raging beyond all control, five days in, the Gironde Fire keeps
growing despite the rotations day and night of 2,500 firefighters plus the civilians who have been drafted in to try and tame a blaze that seems to
have taken on a life of its own, creating its own winds.
BELL (on camera): This is what the firefighters are dealing with. Even in those parts of the forest that the fire has gone through, that have been
ravaged, where the pines have been destroyed, as you can see, the ground, the soil, the nature of the vegetation are such that it is so hot that
flames are constantly popping up from it again.
The other challenge is this westerly wind that has been driving this monster fire always further to the Southeast, where the biggest flames
continue to progress.
BELL (voice over): And ever closer to Bordeaux and its satellite towns, forcing over the weekend an extra 55,000 from their homes, overall, the
number evacuated so far, 220,000 according to authorities.
Wendy and her family fled in the early hours of Saturday morning.
WENDY, EVACUEE (through translator): It is really not knowing why we are here in the first place, whether it is because of the fire is approaching
our home or because of the ash that was blown our way by the strong winds, and in the end, not knowing when we will be able to go back home.
BELL (voice over): Kristoff wouldn't leave without his neighbors, both in their 90s and diabetic. The hard part, he says, was getting them out of
their homes with their medicine in time.
KRISTOFF, EVACUEE (through translator): We never knew the war, but we have known calamities. Nothing like this, though. This type of fire.
BELL (voice over): Spain too is battling several wildfires, one on the outskirts of Madrid, another in the east of the country, authorities say
that 60,000 people have now been displaced.
MARIA ANGELES SERRANO, FIRE EVACUEE (through translator): More than anything, I am afraid, because of what is being lost, nature itself.
Material damage is one thing, but that can be repaired, so to speak.
What really hurts is emotional loss.
BELL (voice over): A loss that will only be measurable when the fires are finally contained.
Melissa Bell, CNN in the Gironde region of France.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
NEWTON: And we do want to go back now to the President, who is in Michigan, a short distance from where he is speaking, a new trade connection between
the U.S. and Canada is now open.
[16:10:01]
The Gordie Howe International Bridge had its first day of traffic today. The bridge offers an alternative to the privately owned American Bridge as
part of the Ambassador Bridge. It opens one week after President Trump announced new 50 percent tariffs on some Canadian goods.
And Drew Dilkens is the Mayor of Windsor, Ontario, Canada and he joins us now.
Mayor, great to see you. You have been mayor of Windsor, I will remind you, since this bridge was like a fever dream for your city. So, you know, go
ahead, take a beat. I know you want to celebrate the fact that it has actually opened to traffic now, but we are all wondering, you know, where
does a city like yours go from here? I mean, no one could have imagined when this bridge was going up that, you know, trade relations with the U.S.
would be where they are today.
MAYOR DREW DILKENS, WINDSOR, ONTARIO, CANADA: Well, Paula, it has been 25 years in the making from the start of the conversation about the Gordie
Howe Bridge until the year that it opened and this bridge is going to stand for more than a hundred years. So let's not get all caught up in two-and-a-
half years left of Donald Trump and whether it is 50 percent tariffs today and 10 percent tariffs tomorrow.
We know that this bridge is going to mean great things for the economies of not just Windsor and Detroit, but for the U.S. and Canada for many, many
generations to come.
NEWTON: It must give you pause, though, especially when we have the President talking to the auto industry right now. You know what he is
doing. He is bragging about the jobs that went from Canada to the United States.
Mayor, I don't have to remind you what is on the line in the auto industry for Windsor. Are Trump's intentions here an existential threat to the
industry?
I mean, American automakers haven't really been speaking up on this. They seem fine with the tariffs.
DILKENS: Well, I think what they are trying to do is navigate a very complex web with a very complex partner and they know that in normal years,
there are about two million vehicles sold in Canada as a country that they can't hide everything off and kill the auto industry here and then expect
to be able to sell two million vehicles made in the United States.
We have created something here that is incredibly special and this goes back to the 1980s with the Free Trade Agreement that morphed in the 90s to
the North American Free Trade Agreement. We brought Mexico in the fold. And then I will remind you, Paula, it was Donald Trump in his first term as
President that said that USMCA was the best trade deal of all time.
And so that trade deal, we agree, is a good trade deal for all partners. If we want to increase the amount of North American content to make vehicles
compliant under USMCA or CUSMA, so be it. We are all in favor of sort of the Fortress North America theme that builds strength in our continent and
the economies on our continent.
NEWTON: But Mayor, Canada and you and mayors in Canada and businesses in Canada have been arguing the same thing since Donald Trump returned to
office. The trade situation obviously has gotten worse. I mean, we've got 50 percent tariffs now here on the horizon in the next three weeks. How do
you see this playing out and what do you believe is Canada's strength at the negotiating table, if it has any cards that's you believe the President
doesn't have any cards.
DILKENS: Well, I think Canada has lots of cards to play. We have lots of leverage on the energy front. We have lots of skill set here with respect
to tool, die and mold, even in my own backyard. Think of agriculture as well.
The vast majority of Kroger's and Meijer's and Costco stores in the U.S., the produce comes from, you know, 20 minutes away from where I live in
Essex County. And so we have lots of strengths, especially on the energy front as well, and cards that we can play. I think I am comforted by the
fact that the U.S. Trade Representative just today has said that he thinks there is going to be at least a tentative agreement with Mexico and Canada
by the year's end.
And I think that that's the appropriate, you know, thing to do is to figure out where the weak points are, where the points are that we need to sort of
strengthen, recognizing that even in the current USMCA agreement, Paula, there are alternative dispute resolution mechanisms. If we have
disagreements, there are ways to solve them today. But I think that the President ultimately is a smart guy, and he is going to say we are better
when we work together -- that's Canada, Mexico and the United States, but it has to work for everyone, those agreements --
NEWTON: He actually hasn't said that at all as of yet. He hasn't. He is not even coming to the table. The end of the year seems a long way away, if
you're a citizen of Windsor right now, or an autoworker wondering where your job is going to come from.
What would you like to see Canada do? Because you know, the arguments, the arguments have been that Canada has given away too much to the United
States already, and that it is time to play hardball.
DILKENS: Well, listen, I think there is the bluster that comes with appealing to your domestic audience, and there is the work that has to
happen behind-the-scenes, and I am quite comfortable that Dominic LeBlanc, our industry, our U.S.-Canada Trade Representative and Minister, Prime
Minister Carney, that the entire team is well armed with the strengths and the abilities that Canada offers to the United States vis-a-vis a
comprehensive agreement that resolves all of the issues and allows things to move forward.
We are absolutely stronger when we work together, and it is in the best interest of Americans. You see what is happening. We have always said,
Paula, that a tariff on Canada is a tax to U.S. consumers, and its playing out. It is playing out.
And unfortunately, U.S. businesses are just simply paying the tariff at this point. But that gets -- that cost gets passed along in the supply
chain.
[16:15:10]
NEWTON: It is certainly in the data, it shows that Americans are paying. I am not sure that businesses, though, are speaking up about it in the United
States, at least not yet.
Drew Dilkens, we will have leave it there. I will remind everyone, there is a pedestrian crossing on this Gordie Howe Bridge that opens in August.
DILKENS: Yes.
NEWTON: I am sure it is stunning, so I encourage everyone to take advantage of that. Drew Dilkens for us, the Mayor of Windsor, appreciate it.
DILKENS: Thanks, Paula.
NEWTON: Now, President Trump says he is pausing strikes on Iran. He says that's because Iran asked very nicely to restart peace talks. We will have
more on that.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
NEWTON: So President Trump says the U.S. is halting strikes on Iran after Iran sought to restart peace talks. Oil prices are falling sharply. Brent
crude has plunged almost nine percent, trading below $90.00 a barrel. West Texas Intermediate has dropped more than eight percent.
Now, Mr. Trump said earlier today that the U.S. is having good talks with Iran. That's after nearly two weeks of daily U.S. Military strikes. Now,
elsewhere in the region, Saudi Arabia says it intercepted drones targeting oil facilities in its eastern province and the Riyadh region. The Saudi
Defense Ministry said they were launched from Iraq by Iran-backed militias.
Nic Robertson is in Jerusalem for us.
Can you please help us make sense of the last few days? We've been here before, right? Neither peace nor war. And yet, do you really put any
credence into the fact that President Trump says Iran is eager to negotiate?
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Well, the Iranians are saying it very differently. The Foreign Ministry spokesman, not so long ago
this evening said that actually there was no peace talks going on with the United States and that what is happening at the moment isn't a ceasefire.
And in fact, you know, one of the state media news agencies in Iran associated with the IRGC has been doing some pretty heavy trolling of the
President and his family, which is probably only going to cause concern in The White House.
So it really doesn't feel that there is a momentum here, as President Trump is hoping clearly that this pause has caused the opportunity for discussion
out of the deadlock.
[16:20:02]
You know, the Omanis were in Tehran over the weekend. They did talk about the Strait of Hormuz, but the product of that conversation really seems to
be the same place it was at the beginning that Iran wants to have control for its National Security reasons over the Strait of Hormuz, which means
the opportunity to have tolls, which is exactly what President Trump is opposed to.
And then, yes, those strikes from an Iraqi-based Iranian-backed group at an energy facility and oil facility inside of Saudi Arabia, actually many
hundreds of miles from the Iraqi border, so those drones were flying a long distance there that the Saudis said that they intercepted. It is not clear
if some managed to get through or not and that comes on the heels of a couple of days ago of the Houthis in Yemen hitting a Saudi oil facility in
the southern port city of Jizan.
So look, at the moment, there isn't the high velocity exchange of ballistic and other missiles going on. But I think when the Iranian Foreign Minister
says this is not a ceasefire, I think that is how the region is feeling it at the moment, on edge, not knowing what is coming next.
NEWTON: Understood. Nic Robertson for us, good to have you in the region again. Appreciate it.
Now Tehran is vowing to respond after Ukraine carried out a series of attacks on ships in the Caspian Sea, that was over the weekend. Ukraine's
President Zelenskyy Kyiv hit ships carrying military cargo from Iran. Iran says one of its ships was hit by a Ukrainian drone, killing one crew member
and injuring three others. The Iranian Foreign Ministry says the deadly attack, according to them, "cannot go unanswered."
Max Boot is a senior fellow at the Council on Foreign Relations, and he joins us now from New York.
Good to see you, Max.
You know, you argued back in march that the Iran conflict was becoming a Russia-Ukraine proxy war. But I am wondering, was this move by Ukraine
predictable? It is a deliberate escalation and I am wondering what you think about the fallout.
MAX BOOT, SENIOR FELLOW, COUNCIL ON FOREIGN RELATIONS: I mean, I don't see this as being an "escalation." I mean, if anybody is escalating, it is
Russia by attacking Ukraine, targeting Ukrainian cities and also now targeting Ukrainian grain exports. This is an attempt by Ukraine to defend
itself and what they are trying to do is to interrupt the flow of munitions and commerce between Iran and Russia.
And since the beginning of this war, Iran has been an important supplier to Russia of drones and missiles. And of course, there is a two-way trade
there which enriches both of these countries and allows them to evade sanctions.
NEWTON: It is an escalation, though, in the sense that they are taking this war to the Caspian Sea now, and another route and the question remains how
the Trump administration will receive this. The President said earlier this afternoon that he didn't want to comment on Russia's involvement with Iran.
He has been consistent on that as you've pointed out time and again.
Where do you see this going from here? I mean, Zelenskyy is arriving tomorrow. Do you think it will come up?
BOOT: I mean, it could come up. If anything it should help to keep Trump on Zelenskyy's side. I mean, Trump should be grateful to Zelenskyy for
targeting an Iranian ship, because that helps the United States to maintain its blockade on Iran. Obviously, the U.S. Navy is blockading Iranian ships
out of the Strait of Hormuz. But the U.S. Navy is not in the Caspian Sea. And so that's somewhere where the Iranians have a chance to not only hurt
Russia, but also to help the United States. I hope Trump appreciates that.
What I don't appreciate is the fact that Trump consistently excuses Putin's misconduct. And, you know, he claims that Putin has told him that Russia is
not supplying weapons to Iran, that Russia is staying out of the war, whereas, in fact, as President Zelenskyy has said, and as U.S. Intelligence
has reported, Russia has been providing help to Iran, including targeting help, as has China.
Both of those countries are helping Iran to target U.S. Forces, and you know, when Trump was asked about that today, he basically claimed that he
had been assured by Putin that was not the case and even if it was happening, it was no big deal.
Well, to me, that's outrageous. How could he be making excuses for another country enabling Iran to attack and kill Americans?
NEWTON: And yet, he has been doing that, in fact, since this conflict started. I am wondering again, though, when we see the President and
Zelenskyy together tomorrow, does this give President Zelenskyy a little bit more leverage? And I quote our Tim Lister here on CNN saying that "...
above all, it is astute timing from the Ukrainians," the fact that Zelenskyy will be in Washington.
We all know President Trump likes winners.
[16:25:02]
BOOT: Yes, I think this will contribute hopefully to a more positive dynamic between Zelenskyy and Trump, which you've already seen in evidence
in their last few meetings at international conferences, where, as you say, Trump likes winners. Ukraine seems to be winning. They are certainly taking
the battle to Russia in ways that seem to impress Trump, and this is more evidence of that, as well as evidence that Ukraine is actually helping the
United States battle Iran, whereas Russia is helping Iran.
So, you know, for somebody who is such a committed Russophile and a fan of Putin, like Donald Trump, maybe this will make him rethink some of those
long-held positions.
NEWTON: I am not sure he will rethink that, but perhaps those in congress might rethink influencing the President on many of those issues.
Max Boot, for us, always good to get your input here. Appreciate it.
BOOT: Thank you.
NEWTON: Now President Donald Trump's latest round of tariffs is prompting outrage from dozens of U.S. Trade partners and back home, we speak to the
firm that won a Supreme Court ruling against Trump's latest round of tariffs, and now, they are back at it again.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
NEWTON: Hello, I am Paula Newton, and there is more QUEST MEANS BUSINESS in a moment when President Trump's new tariffs are facing immediate legal
pushback. We speak to some of the people behind that lawsuit and a group of British millionaires is calling for their taxes to be raised. Music
producer, Brian Eno will be with us to discuss the effort.
Before that, though, the headlines this hour: Oil prices are falling as U.S. President Donald Trump says he paused strikes on Iran because it asked
to return to talks. Brent crude has plunged about nine percent trading below $90.00 a barrel. The pause in fighting, giving oil traders hope that
the war can be resolved through diplomacy.
[16:30:02]
Spain's prime minister is calling the devastating wildfires ravaging parts of his country and neighboring France the most painful expression of a
climate emergency.
Massive flames are getting dangerously close to the cities of Bordeaux and Madrid, and France says they may not be extinguished for months.
Tens of thousands of people have already faced forced -- have already been forced to evacuate their homes.
Police say they have a 15-year-old boy in custody after a terrifying shooting, Sunday at a popular food festival in Seattle.
People scrambled for safety after two people at the festival apparently began shooting at each other. Three people were killed and several others
wounded.
Authorities are still looking for the other suspected shooter.
So, President Donald Trump's latest tariff blitz is facing pushback from trade partners around the globe. Brazil's president called duties against
his country unfair and a strategic mistake. And China is urging the administration to correct what it calls a wrong practice.
Here in the United States, the Trump administration's sweeping new tariffs are almost immediately challenged in court. The Liberty Justice Center was
behind the lawsuit that overturned Trump's Liberation Day tariffs. It's now representing two small businesses that say the new tariffs are also
illegal.
Asher Rapkin is the co-founder of one of those companies, Collective Horology, and he joins me along with Sara Albrecht. She is chairman and CEO
of the Liberty Justice Center. And welcome to you both as we continue to try and parse this latest trade salvo.
Asher, to you first. The tariffs are not that high. You know, why are you fighting the administration on these as well? And I'm wondering what kind
of an effect it will have on your business.
ASHER RAPKIN, CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER, COLLECTIVE HOROLOGY: Well, thanks for having us, Paula. And I would say, saying 12.5 percent is not that high
is a little bit of Stockholm syndrome. Because if we roll back the clock prior to April of 2025, there was no 12.5 percent tariff. So, it's pretty
critical because this is part of what we have seen over the last 16 months from AIPA, to Section 122 to Section 301, it's a parade of tariffs that
have diminished our ability to have operating expense to grow and increase prices to our customers.
NEWTON: And President Trump wants to use this parade of tariffs, as you say. He is been pretty clear about that. Sara, I want to get to the legal
argument now.
You are trying to prove that the U.S. Trade Representative acted arbitrarily, in your words, and capriciously by applying near uniform
tariffs across 60 countries that have different laws on the books, different trading relationships.
Again, this has to do with, you know, labor in other countries. You know, Jamieson Greer, the U.S. Trade Representative, says that they are legally
on firmer ground, not like Liberation Day tariffs. What do you say to that?
SARA ALBRECHT, CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER, LIBERTY JUSTICE CENTER: I respectfully disagree with him. The difference is Section 301 is an
established tariff statute. But it's designed to be used very targeted and specifically at problems, countries, products.
Here we have it's 85 countries that they have levied this tariff against, and it represents 99.4 percent of all imports into the United States. They
have also stated that they are trying to replace the AIPA money. So, clearly, this is pretextual way to do that and misapply Section 301, which
has a purpose and it is useful in the right situation. This is just not one of those situations.
NEWTON: I am wondering about the role of Congress. I'll ask you first, Sara. I mean, you say Congress did not give the USCR universal power to
impose a predetermined global tariff policy. That it's not a blank check, but, you know, let me know if I've missed something. It seems Congress is
giving the executive branch a blank check here. Sara, to you first. But I want to hear Asher on this as well.
ALBRECHT: I mean, I don't think they intended to give him a blank check.
(CROSSTALK)
NEWTON: But they have.
ALBRECHT: That was why we initially filed -- Yes. Well, they need to do their job, and we are kind of doing their job for them. We struck down the
AIPA tariffs. We are challenging 122, because it's really not about the president; it's about the presidency.
And stopping this power now and not letting the future presidents make up statutes and rules just to fit their own needs and kind of back into what
they would like to ultimately do.
NEWTON: Asher, how about it on Congress? Have you spoken to members of Congress, senators? I mean, small businesses have been fighting these
tariffs for some time. You won, but only in court the last time. And remedy in courts takes a long time.
RAPKIN: Sure, it does.
[16:35:00]
And yes, I mean, my -- I'm in California. My local representative, as well as my senators have absolutely heard from me. But if I'm frank, it was the
mayor of Windsor, Ontario, earlier on your show, that really put it perfectly.
Americans are paying these taxes, and while there may be or may not be a defensible explanation for them, the bottom line is we are all the ones
that are paying it, and it's a pretty meaningful and hefty expense.
NEWTON: And when it gets to that expense, though, Asher, I mean, how quickly do you think this could move through? And I am wondering, did you
get a refund from the court win at the Supreme Court from the Liberation Day tariffs?
RAPKIN: We are eligible for it, but we are waiting for over $164,000 plus interest of refunds that have yet to come. So, even if there was something
that we saw or change here in terms of 122s being ruled illegal, for example, or the 301s, all the money that small business has put in,
including mine, may take months or even longer to get back.
So, you know, even if that money does come back to small businesses, we are lucky enough that we might have enough cash reserves heading into this that
we were able to weather that first storm. But there is no guarantee moving forward for us or for so many other small businesses in the same place.
So, you know our hope here is that we do see some significant movement and faster, so that we don't all have to put our hard-earned money into this.
NEWTON: And Sara, to that point, when we talk about remedy, how quickly do you think this can move through the courts? And you just heard Asher say,
and I've heard from many other companies say, yes, we have a refund coming.
So, it seems that you'll be paying the tariff for many months before you can get a remedy here, right?
ALBRECHT: Well, the AIPA refunds are in kind of the final stages of that process. So, to date, over $90 billion has been paid back to businesses.
But the problem is that was followed immediately by Section 122, and then, when that rolled off, 301.
So, you have to understand, American small businesses basically loaned the government all of their working capital for over a year. So, we are clearly
going to move for an expedited hearing on the section 301. But as the law moves slower than people would like. We are not expecting refunds anytime
soon, unfortunately. It's just kind of rolling them forward, and we will not stop until everybody gets their money back from AIPA and until he stops
levying tariffs that are in violation.
NEWTON: Yes, sobering reality for consumers who aren't getting any money back at this point, but also small businesses. Asher Rapkin, Sara Albrecht,
we'll continue to follow this case. I thank you both for being with us.
ALBRECHT: Great, thank you.
RAPKIN: Thanks for your time.
NEWTON: Now Nvidia is teaming up with dozens of other companies to support open source A.I. models. We'll discuss the goals of the Open Secure AI
Alliance. What inspired it, and what has to do with cake?
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[16:40:31]
NEWTON: Nvidia is teaming up with dozens of companies to promote the value of Open Source A.I. models. Now, the Open Secure AI alliance includes firms
like Microsoft, Salesforce, Cisco, and IBM. The group says Open Source A.I. gives companies and countries the tools to fight cyber threats.
Nvidia CEO Jensen Huang posted on X, "Open models strengthen safety and cybersecurity, accelerate innovation, and diffusion, and enable
sovereignty." He added, "The world needs both frontier closed models and frontier open models."
Now, to understand the difference, think of that large language model, the LLM, as a cake. With Open Source models, you are given the ingredients, the
amounts to use, and the baking instructions, the weights, data, and code, and you get to bake the cake and modify it as needed.
Now, with the open weight model, all you get are the ingredients, the weights. It's up to you to decide how much of them to use, and then to bake
the cake as you decide. Now, with the closed source models, you're given the cake fully baked, no control. Take it or leave it. You have no control
over what is in it.
Hadas Gold is with me now to break it all down in cake. So, the point is, can we have our cake and eat it too, because look, you know, for A.I., the
cake isn't dessert, right? It is the meat and potatoes of everything.
HADAS GOLD, CNN AI CORRESPONDENT: Yes, I mean, it's how these systems function and work, and there is a huge debate right now about this open
versus closed source, and you can see sort of the benefits from both sides.
Are the biggest A.I. companies we know of today, like OpenAI, and Anthropic. They used a closed source system.
Open Source, though, is gaining a lot of steam, because a lot of companies are realizing that they actually want to be able to mix and match and make
their own customizable models that will also a lot of these also live more on their systems and not be beholden to the other systems.
So, for example, if the government decides to shut down a model, like we saw with the Trump administration shut down Mythos, they won't necessarily
be affected. Open Source models are also can be a little bit cheaper, and we are seeing a lot of these open source models come out of China.
But there is a big debate over the safety. Closed source companies will often say, you know, for safety's sake. We need to be the ones to control
the weights, to control the recipe. Because when everybody gets the recipe, you know, some amazing things can come out of it. You can make the best
tasting cake ever, and some bad things can come out of it.
Some people could get food poisoning. And so, in the case of A.I., you know there is a debate over open versus closed.
Now, what Jensen Huang is doing with this Open Source Alliance? This is coming out directly out of what happened recently, where that OpenAI test
model broke out of its testing environment, hacked into a completely different company's systems, really incredible moment in A.I. and
cybersecurity.
But the company that was hacked, Hugging Face, they tried to figure out the hack and protect themselves using the closed-source frontier models, and
because of the guardrails, they were not able to. They were not able to get in there and change the weights and make it work for their company.
So, they actually turned to a Chinese open source model to help them figure out the hack and protect themselves.
And that trigger for people like Jensen Huang, like a hold on a second, there is, you know, a use in these open source models, and there is a fear
amongst those proponents of open source that there is a movement away from open source, and especially from the U.S. government, a movement to clamp
down, especially on Chinese open source models.
And so, what Jensen Huang is doing is he had this open letter that a lot of companies signed, and now this new alliance, what they say will create and
develop new techniques to safeguard the open source software, and the agents, and share models, and tooling, and research.
Keep in mind, for the picks and shovels, companies like Nvidia that provide the chips. The more companies out there doing A.I., the more open source
companies out there, the better for their business models, because still all of these need compute power and they need the chips.
So, there is obviously like a business element to supporting open source. But this is a very true sort of gets to the heart of A.I. and how it works,
debate that we are seeing play out right now in the industry.
NEWTON: Yes, I'm glad you pointed that out. That obviously, NVIDIA gets a lot out of that kind of open source model. Again, a debate that we'll
continue to follow. Hadas Gold, thanks for breaking it all down for us through the joy and the kind the desert.
GOLD: Yes. And cake. Cake.
[16:45:04]
NEWTON: I will. Thank you very much. Appreciate it.
Now, nearly six months after her mother went missing in an apparent abduction, "TODAY SHOW" host, Savannah Guthrie is sending out a desperate
new plea for information.
In an emotional video posted on her Instagram page, Guthrie said she and her family are in agony. She implored those responsible for 84-year-old
Nancy Guthrie's disappearance to help bring her home. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SAVANNAH GUTHRIE, HOST, NBC: The world can be a cruel and unforgiving place, and I know that you have tried to do things the right way. So, I'm
asking you, begging you, to do the right thing now. Make the right choice. Help us find her, tell us where to look for her. I truly believe it is
never too late to do the right thing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NEWTON: CNN chief law enforcement intelligence analyst John Miller joins us now.
I mean, look, John, I'm going to defer to you. You know a lot about this case, a lot that sometimes you haven't been able to report.
When you saw that video this afternoon, I mean, it's gut wrenching to even look at, but it also does convey -- well, what does it convey? Does it
convey desperation, or do you think they are close from at least understanding what happened to her and where she may be?
JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: So, Paula, I think it conveys two things. One, as we approach the six-month
anniversary of this kidnapping, which comes up on Saturday, it conveys what is obvious, which is the family's pain, the family's desperation, and the
family's need to know what happened to our mother. Where is she? Can we have her remains back so we can honor her properly?
That part we get. The more interesting part of this communication, though, is if you listen between the lines, you know she starts off with this is a
very specific message that seems targeted to a particular listener. Is that someone who was involved in the kidnapping? Is that someone who may have
come forward saying that they had information on the kidnapping, or where her remains could be found, if, in fact, she was killed,
And you know, because it starts off that way, I think there are other messages in it. When she says we have done our part. And remember what you
just played. The world can be a cruel and unforgiving place, and I know that you have tried to do things the right way. That sounds like she's
definitely trying to communicate with someone who is communicating with her.
Paula, almost as if we are listening to half of a phone call or one part of a text message exchange.
NEWTON: And yet, she is forced to kind of go out in public like this, right? If she wants to communicate with whomever kidnapped her mother in
the first place.
MILLER: And that may be because if there is someone communicating with her, those communications could be set up to be very one way. She may be trying
to stir the pot and get those communications moving again.
These are things we don't know. You are -- you are hearing me speculate, but its speculation based on the wording of this message, which is
different from some of the other messages.
In her early messages, she was kidnapping -- she was communicating directly with who she believed to be the kidnappers, because there were two ransom
notes that she was responding to. One, demanding money.
And the second, according to people briefed on the case, informing her that her mother had died in the course of the kidnapping and was no longer with
us, and that there would be no further contact.
So, this seems to be an effort to stir up that contact again, either with the party who sent those communications or with someone else. We can't
tell.
NEWTON: Yes, and a lot at stake here for Savannah Guthrie and her family. But obviously, as well, for the community. It is still almost six months,
and no suspects have been arrested.
John Miller, I know you're going to stay on top of this case. Really appreciate it.
Now, a group of millionaires in the U.K. is asking the new prime minister to raise their taxes. We will -- we will get up to date on this, with
musician producer and rock and roll Hall of Fame member Brian Eno.
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NEWTON: So, some British millionaires have a request for the country's new prime minister. They want him to raise their taxes. 120 millionaires, in
fact, signed an open letter to Andy Burnham. In it, they say, "Wealth and power has been concentrated in a small group for too long, at the cost of
our country, its people, our democracy, and our environment. For a better Britain, this has to change."
The signatories include former England striker Gary Lineker, actor Simon Pegg, as well as musician and producer Brian Eno. And Brian Eno has worked
with many musicians, including David Bowie, Talking Heads, U2, and Coldplay. Some of them would be -- their taxes would be at stake here too.
But OK, Maestro, thanks for joining us. But really, more taxes?
Go ahead, explain yourself.
BRIAN ENO, MUSICIAN, PRODUCER, AND POLITICAL ACTIVIST: Well, not everyone resents paying taxes. For people like me, I think, I want to live in a good
society. I want to live in a place that where there aren't very poor people, if possible. I want to live in a society where there aren't
obscenely rich people as well, and I think it's absolutely fair that we pay taxes to maintain social infrastructure. That's what concerns me. It's the
something that has -- can, you know, eroded very considerably after the last few -- over the last few years is social infrastructure.
And people hate each other a lot more than they used to, I think. And I think part of that is because of this ever-widening gap between the rich
and the poor. There are some very, very, very wealthy people now, as you know, and that is rather at the expense of the other end of the spectrum.
There are a lot of very poor people now as well.
So, it doesn't make much difference, perhaps, what I do individually. But I think if all of the people in my sort of tax bracket and above said we are
willing to pay a bit more, that would make a big difference.
NEWTON: When you say a bit more, I mean British taxes are already quite high. So, I'm wondering, in context, what do you see in British society
that tells you that things are skewed? I mean, keeping in mind as well that people run businesses, they have tax shelters, there are business
deductions. So, do you see something inherently unfair in the British tax system?
ENO: Well, there are two things, I think. First of all, proportionately, poor people pay a much bigger chunk of their income in tax than rich people
do. Even the very richest people, particularly the very richest people, know how not. To pay taxes, that's why, you know, London is well known as
the money laundering center of the world, and it's full of people who are very clever at telling you how to avoid taxes, not necessarily illegally,
but sometimes illegally. But there are people who know how to play the system.
Well, poor people can't afford to play the system, even if they wanted to, it's expensive to get those kinds of lawyers and accountants.
[16:55:07]
So, I think that that's the first thing I'd say. The second thing I'd say is that we have seen a sort of glorification of extreme wealth in the last
few years, probably since Reagan and Thatcher. The idea that accumulating wealth was a very good idea because somehow that benefited the rest of
society.
You know, the money would trickle down. That was the idea. Rich people would get very rich, and then they would employ less rich people, and
everyone would be better off.
But in fact, that theory, which is called trickle down, manifestly doesn't work. Wealth actually trickles up. Money is magnetic; it attracts more
money to it. So, the wealthiest people become wealthier almost by default. They don't have to do much to become wealthy.
Once you start getting a lot of money, it's very easy to get more.
NEWTON: So, to that question, though, what do you see it doing for British society? Because, you know, you could, for instance, just donate what you
think is fair to the NHS to the National Health Service, right?
Most of the people I know who are thinking like this already do donate a lot of money to various things like that. But if it isn't systemic, it
doesn't make much difference. You know, if you said to everybody in England, OK, we are not going to tax you anymore, but just put in whatever
you want for education and put in whatever you want for defense.
I tell you, they wouldn't get funded very well. You need to make it such that everybody knows everybody's on the same program. You know, I'm not
going to pay my taxes so willingly if I know that lots of other people are not paying any taxes.
So, the point of making it a legal event or a legal issue is to try to make sure that it's equalized across everybody.
NEWTON: Brian, we have to leave it there for now, but I do have one question. We only have about 20 seconds. Do you know if anyone at Downing
Street is listening?
ENO: I think so. Yes. I think, everybody in Downing Street realizes there is a crisis with the polarization of wealth. So, I think a lot of people
are listening. This wouldn't be the most popular, even though it's quite a small suggestion. It wouldn't be the most popular suggestion. So, it will
take some nerves for somebody to do to actually invoke it as a policy. But I hope somebody has got some nerves now.
NEWTON: It will be interesting to see, because, as you said, there are business people out there who are going to say it is going to hurt things
like productivity or hurt Britain in general.
Brian, we do have to leave it there, but grateful to you, and we'll continue to see how this develops. Appreciate it.
Now, that is QUEST MEANS BUSINESS for now. I'm Paula Newton. "THE LEAD WITH JAKE TAPPER" is next.
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