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Rick's List
Haiti Aftershocks; Republican Wins Massachusetts Senate Seat
Aired January 20, 2010 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
RICK SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): Making THE LIST right now: Democrats defeated in Massachusetts badly.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think that the Democrats really need to rethink how they are going to run campaigns.
SANCHEZ: Meanwhile, the Grand Old Party today calling the win a national referendum. Health care, the wars, tea parties, what did it?
MARTHA COAKLEY (D), MASSACHUSETTS SENATORIAL CANDIDATE: We will always remember our terrific Senator Ted Kennedy and his words: The work begins anew.
SANCHEZ: You inspired yet? Maybe it was just the candidate herself.
Another earthquake in Haiti, this time, 6.1, while they are still pulling people out alive.
ANDERSON COOPER, HOST, "ANDERSON COOPER 360": "Thanks to the teamwork, we were able to take this woman, who prayed and prayed. And I believe that her faith is so big, that was the thing that saved her."
SANCHEZ: Anderson Cooper, Sanjay Gupta, Ivan Watson, we will hear from all of them.
Is that a biblical verse on that rifle, soldier? God and war, does that make us too much like them? Is it legal? What's the Army say? We are asking.
The so-called bad girl facing the music. Amy Winehouse's hit song "Rehab" -- is she headed back to rehab?
Most intriguing, he is the talk of pop, the talk on television, even the talk of the NFL. Who is he?
THE LIST you need to know about. Who is today's most intriguing person? Who is on The List You Don't Want to Be On? We will find out as our national conversation on Twitter, on the air...
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ: And hello again, everybody. I'm Rick Sanchez. Making THE LIST today, Haiti. There was another earthquake this morning, and it was the most powerful aftershock to hit so far, 5.9 magnitude. As you might expect, it's making the recovery even more chaotic.
We have learned that more American troops are now going to be on the way. And you are going to hear from my colleague Anderson Cooper during this show out of Haiti.
But, first, the Massachusetts' Senate race. A Republican wins the seat once held by Ted Kennedy. Think about that. Exactly a year ago today, when Barack Obama was sworn into office, no one could have seen this coming. But look who is celebrating now. There is Mitch McConnell displaying that cat ate the canary smile. Here he is, the leader of the Senate Republicans, assessing the stunning victory of Republican Scott Brown.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R-KY), MINORITY LEADER: This was in many ways a national referendum, principally on the major issue we are wrestling with here in the Congress, which is whether or not the government should take over one-sixth of our economy, slash Medicare by half-a-trillion dollars, raise taxes by half-a-trillion dollars, and drive up insurance rates for most of the rest of the country.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Expect both sides to spin this thing, but before we let them, before we get too far ahead of the curve, let's stop and look at what really happened.
Roger, to Massachusetts we go.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Does anybody up there still believe that Democrat Martha Coakley will actually win this election?
JESSICA YELLIN, CNN NATIONAL POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, you will meet some Democrats -- I talked to a bunch of Democratic operatives -- who will say, there is always hope.
JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: My calls around the Democrats of the state, none of them are optimistic.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't think it is particularly Coakley. I think it is the direction that this country is taking.
LARRY KING, HOST, "LARRY KING LIVE": We have got a result in Massachusetts -- Wolf.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: We have got the breaking news. CNN now projects now, Larry, that Scott Brown will become the next United States senator from the state of Massachusetts. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The people have spoken, and I, like you, want to celebrate the people's choice for the next U.S. senator from Massachusetts.
COAKLEY: I am heartbroken at the result. And I know that you are also, but I know that we will get up together tomorrow and continue this fight, even with this result tonight, because there will be plenty of Wednesday-morning quarterbacking.
DAVID GERGEN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: This was a message to Washington that people in Massachusetts, the bluest of the blue states, don't like the direction that Washington is taking. This will be the vote heard around the world.
SCOTT BROWN (R), MASSACHUSETTS SENATOR-ELECT: If anyone doubts that, in this next election season that is about to begin, well, let them look at what happened in Massachusetts...
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
BROWN: ... because what happened here, what happened here in Massachusetts can happen all over America.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
BROWN: Since the election is not in doubt, I'm hopeful that the Senate will seat me on the basis of those unofficial returns, just as they did for Ted Kennedy in 1962.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Well, did you hear David Gergen in that, the election heard around the world? And did you hear what Scott Brown said right there at the very end? We checked, because you know he said that he wants to be seated right away. He is right.
In 1962, Ted Kennedy won a special election and was seated as a United States senator the very next day. Think about that. Remember, this past Monday, I asked a top Republican point-blank on this show, if Scott Brown wins, will he hop on a plane to Washington and demand to take Ted Kennedy's seat immediately?
That Republican said yes. Now, Brown is saying that he is ready to go. Well, what happens next? Is that to stop health care, by the way? Because Scott Brown's vote takes away the filibuster-proofing 60th vote from the Democrats.
Here is the White House discussing its dwindling options today with CNN's Suzanne Malveaux.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: How do you move forward? Does the president consider pushing House Democrats to pass the Senate version? What is the best alternative, the option here? DAVID AXELROD, SENIOR WHITE HOUSE ADVISER: I'm not going to discuss tactics here. Obviously, everybody is sifting through this and reading these results and interpreting them. While this wasn't, I think, the referendum on health care that some have portrayed it to be, that is obviously an element of people's frustration.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Now, here is what Democrats are saying. They're saying, some, that they were stuck with a lousy candidate, Martha Coakley, and that is why they lost.
Republicans are calling it a national referendum, a message being sent to President Obama. Here is the question. Does the White House now acquiesce or do they go full-speed ahead still and try to rush health care through while they can?
Those are the questions I'm going to be asking Jessica Yellin, Wolf Blitzer, Ron Paul, Anthony Weiner, among others, during this show today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Had I run for the door, I would have been squashed. I would have been killed.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Another aftershock rocks Haiti this morning, this time a 5.9. You can only imagine what those people were thinking when they felt the ground suddenly shaking again.
By the way, it was 6.1 this morning. It has been decreased to a 5.9. And what about the news crews? What about the emergency workers who are there now in Port-au-Prince?
Also, this: Eight people shot to death, and when a police helicopter shows up at the scene, it is hit with gunfire.
Also, who is number one on The List That Nobody Wants to Be On? I bet you can probably figure this one out.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Welcome back to THE LIST. I'm Rick Sanchez.
We have got some new pictures that are just now coming in from Haiti. Have you got those, Roger? Let's put those up. These were captured by CNN cameras. We are getting these, so let me try and take you through them as best I can.
A correspondent was recording a report just a short time ago, and a mob beating one or two men with belts were seen in the background. You see it there? This happened just an hour or so after that strong aftershock rattled the city. The scene shows some -- well, just how tense and chaotic the atmosphere in Port-au-Prince is at this point. We are going to stay and look at these pictures. I am seeing these with you for the very first time, by the way.
We are told that people were frightened, starving, some people resorting to violence now. Our reporter there is Karl Penhaul. He says that he has seen gangs beating people with sticks and in some cases with iron bars, something you might expect under these conditions.
But just how bad it gets, we don't know. He said they are also charging some people money to be allowed to go anywhere near some of these buildings. They are certainly desperate times.
So, here is one of the things that we have tried to do and we will continue to do between 3:00 and 5:00. I'm going to curate lists, because I know that we're finding out in this world and in this medium that social media is oftentimes the best way to get information, Twitter, for example.
So, I'm connecting with people who are on Twitter who are there in Haiti, asking them to send me information, like this. Let's go to the Twitter board, if we possibly can, and you will see right here -- Robert, thanks -- this is from UNICEF.
This is Rich, Richard Alleyne. He is one of the officials with UNICEF. I have asked him to send me whatever information he can get me out of Haiti. And here is what he just sent moments ago. He said he just left the southern part of Santo Domingo, the capital city of D.R.
"Trauma," he says, "cannot -- treating Haitian children brought from the border." The trauma center -- pardon me. I misspoke. I'm seeing this, too. "Facilities at the border," he says, "are stretched to capacity."
Again, that is the situation right there. He sent this just like a minute-and-a-half ago, Rich from UNICEF USA, who is down there in Haiti, one of the folks who is going to help us keep tabs on this. I will also be sharing some the things that you are sharing with us today, and this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Tonight, the independent majority has delivered a great victory.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: America, meet the Democrats' worst nightmare. Scott Brown is on his way to the Senate, and the president's health care reform plans may never be the same. It is a dramatic change in the political landscape, and we are going to drill down on every possible bit of this. Stay with us. THE LIST scrolls on for you.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
CALLER: Hey, Rick. John from New York.
I really am pleased with the election in Massachusetts last night. I think it stands true to voice the United States' opinion. If the Republicans can win a seat in Massachusetts, think of what Obama needs to do. He needs to sit back and know that the people want less government. Sit back, take time, and reevaluate this health care issue, and get the people jobs. Thank you.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Boy, I will tell you, Americans are talking today and they're talking a lot.
And Sarah Palin is talking. I promised you I'm going to checking on what is coming in on Twitter. Here is Sarah Palin just moments ago. Let's go to the Twitter board. This is Sarah Palin saying: "Thank you, Massachusetts. Scott Brown," she tweets, "supporters worked their butts off and independents chose to send D.C. a message. The rest of America appreciates what Massachusetts just did. Sarah Palin, USA."
All right. That is a comment.
Now let me break some news for you. John King, our John King, has just come across this information. Let's go to that, if we possibly can. Ready? "Brown credits the truck" -- that is that pickup truck everybody has seen in the stories -- "for everyman image and jokes he can't wait to show Obama."
All right, here is the news. Here is the news. "He will fly to D.C. for his first trip Thursday because of time constraints." So, now we hear he is going to be going up there Thursday, unlike what we were told by his folks here Monday, which is that he was going to rush the very next day and be in Washington demanding to be seated.
Now, time for a little Yellin, because the people of Massachusetts are doing a little screaming.
Jessica Yellin joins me now live.
Jessica, how are you?
(LAUGHTER)
YELLIN: Well, Rick, that was hysterical.
SANCHEZ: You like that?
YELLIN: I'm well. No one is screaming around here. SANCHEZ: Well, I will tell you, a lot of finger-pointing that is going to be going on between the Democrats in Massachusetts. I can all but guarantee that there's going to be some finger-pointing going on.
Who and at what are they going to point that finger?
YELLIN: Well, the circular firing squad has formed, Rick, and every Democrat is a target.
(LAUGHTER)
YELLIN: Folks in Washington are pointing their rifle barrels this way, claiming that Martha Coakley, her campaign aides, and even state Democrats were asleep at the wheel. They went on vacation for a week in the middle of a very shortened election schedule, and weren't alert to the Brown surge that they should have seen coming.
But folks here say, look, it is part of a national trend. It's a wave of frustration with what folks here call the slow pace of change in Washington, and so they are blaming the national mood. Everyone is at fault, but no one has taken the blame at this point, and Democrats are aware, Rick, that they really have to regroup today.
SANCHEZ: You know what? A loss is a loss. It doesn't matter whether it's the pitcher, the catcher, or the shortstop. A loss is a loss.
But here's the question that we were pondering just a little while ago. And I promised our viewers and our folks on social media that I would ask you this. What is to stop, Jessica, what is to stop the Democrats from going in there right now full-steam ahead, and somehow getting health care passed?
YELLIN: Common sense and President Obama.
Common sense, because Democrats more now than ever are worried about their own political hide. They are worried more about their own reelection chances come November than they are about the image of the whole party. And they know that voters are going to be outraged if they try to ram a health care bill through without seating Senator -- new Senator Brown, and now President Obama has himself spoken out, and said that would be the wrong course, and warned Congress not to do it.
(CROSSTALK)
YELLIN: So, I would not expect, by any means -- yes.
SANCHEZ: At least, they are not going to rush it, in other words? They still want to do health care, but they are not going to rush it?
YELLIN: Right. They don't want -- in other words, this whole talk of taking the health care that the Senate and House have been negotiating and then just ramming that through Congress before Senator Brown can be seated, that does that -- very low chance. That is not going to happen.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: OK. All right. All right. Let's do this, then, you and I. Let's look at the long view. Here is Anthony Weiner talking about the long view of health care, and then I want you and I to talk about this on the other side. This is interesting. Play it, Rog.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. ANTHONY WEINER (D), NEW YORK: They were talking as if like what our deal is and what our negotiations are at the White House.
Yes, I mean, if the last line is, pigs fly out of my ass or something like that.
(LAUGHTER)
WEINER: I mean, we -- it's just -- it's just we have got to recognize we have an entirely different scenario.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(LAUGHTER)
SANCHEZ: There was the lipstick line about pigs.
(CROSSTALK)
YELLIN: You know what we learned from that?
SANCHEZ: What?
YELLIN: We need to interview Representative Weiner more often. He is pretty good with a sound bite.
What he is saying that it is time Democrats got a wakeup call. This health bill is unpopular. What Democrats keep pointing to us is that, if you explain the bill, if you show people pieces of it, they like the pieces. They just don't like the whole bill.
SANCHEZ: Yes.
YELLIN: But you know what, Rick? They don't like the whole bill, and so they have to find new ways to agree on the pieces that are popular, insurance reform, expanding some coverage, not the whole megillah.
SANCHEZ: By the way, Wiener is going to be on our show. We're going to interview him in just a little bit. He is coming up.
YELLIN: You will like that.
SANCHEZ: He said earlier that this thing was dead, forget about it, this guy in Massachusetts wins, there's going to be no health care. Well, let me ask you this before I let you go. Here is a tricky question for you. How is it that Barack Obama and the Democrats have allowed themselves to end up in a position where they are essentially getting much of the blame, not all of it, but much of the blame for trying to clean up a mess that was there before they started?
Think about that. What is the chatter on that?
(CROSSTALK)
YELLIN: That's exactly what members of the White House staff and Democrats who are expert in public relations messaging are asking themselves a lot these days, Rick. They are very frustrated. They really feel like they inherited a mess, and they are getting blamed for it too soon.
But the big challenge is for them to figure out how to communicate that better. And that is what people are talking about inside the Democratic Party. You know, it's the D.C. phrase re- messaging. They have to message this better.
People are impatient. It is the lesson they learned here in Massachusetts. Voters are impatient, frustrated. And whichever party grabs on to that is the party that succeeds. Democrats are not messaging on that...
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: Jessica, we just got another tweet. I want to look at this one with me. You ready.
Martha Coakley has just tweeted. Did you see this?
"Congratulations to Scott Brown. And thank you all for your support, friendship, and hard work."
Well, her volunteers may have worked hard and may have supported her, but I have got to tell you, everything I am hearing says this candidate was just not up to snuff. Am I wrong?
YELLIN: Well, there is a difference between passionate supporters and a campaign that is trying its best and feels they're doing a good job. And she has been a person who has been in public service for many years, and is well liked by folks around here.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: But she didn't know Schilling.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: She didn't know Schilling. She didn't go out and shake hands. She took a one-week vacation. She didn't put ads on because she was ahead by a ton of points. Those are all classic mistakes, aren't they? YELLIN: Right. They missed the big picture. They really missed the big picture. There was a sense of complacency, and they were totally caught flat-footed by the Brown surge, and they didn't see it coming. They were not even taking polls in December. So they didn't know that he was increasing in his support in the state until it was basically too late. They made crucial mistakes that should not have happened.
It is campaign 101, do not do this, and future Democrats are going to learn from it.
SANCHEZ: You are very kind and instructive, and you are Yellin, because the folks of Massachusetts are screaming.
Jessica Yellin, everybody.
Thanks for being with us.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: First time I saw it in a postcard, the first thing I thought that it would be really awesome to fly through the hole. It is just the perfect size. If a helicopter can fly through it, I can fly through it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Kind of like Sir Edmund Hillary. Why did he do it? Because it is there. You are about to see a stunt by a parachuter perhaps like no other. You ready for this? It's 1,000-foot jump toward a hole while going more than 100 miles an hour. He is going to go through a cave while he is still parachuting. This is crazy, folks. It's in "Fotos."
Also, drumroll, please. One of our signatures, who is the most intriguing persons of the day? Hint, she is in her 20s and she's originally from Canada.
If you haven't seen the flooding, by the way, the pics that are coming in out of Los Angeles, stick around. You have got to see what is going on in Los Angeles today. Stay there. THE LIST continues.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: I have got to show you a couple of things, first the Twitter boards.
Let's do the regular folks who are watching the show right now and they want to get involved in this. And we have the second one. See the second one, Anhemi? Let's do that one. "The Democrats have to be more ruthless. They need more Barney Franks and fewer John Kerrys."
Interesting point. Now, just to parallel that, go to the Rick's List now. See that? That is from Mark Preston. We have just found out -- talk about ruthless. Look at what John McCain is saying. He's saying, no, don't wait. Forget them. Forget the Democrats. Seat him right now. He just sent this e-mail to Mark Preston, our Mark Preston at CNN.
The e-mail from McCain's PAC is saying, "Seat him now." In other words, put Brown, give him the seat, just in case there's going to some shenanigans from the Democrats. That is the way these things go.
At one time or another, most of us dream of changing our lives, taking our money and moving to an island with palm trees and ocean breezes. Only a few of us dream of moving to an impoverished seaside city to change other people's lives, like the young woman on our List of The Most Intriguing Persons of the Day.
This Canadian first visited Haiti as a teenager and even then saw a need and her calling. After training as a midwife, she took all the money that she had earned as a teenager and moved to Haiti to build a maternity center. Now she is one of the few voices being heard from the almost forgotten city of Jacmel.
She is 24-year-old midwife Sarah Wallace. Aid may not have reached Jacmel, but Sarah Wallace is there searching for the injured, taking them to the hospital, handing out food, getting word out through "The Edmonton Journal." And that makes her one of our most intriguing persons of the day.
Who else is on the list? We are going to tell you in just a little bit.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We don't know if there is hollow ground underneath of him or not. We don't know if his legs are broken, but, basically, we are going to use the fact that he is sedated and hopefully drag him out, and then put him on a sling.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: You have got to see this, unbelievable. This horse already has plenty of strikes against it. Now it is caught in a very tight spot. Amazing story. You will see it here.
Also, will Massachusetts' newly elected senator quickly take the seat once held by Ted Kennedy? Should he? Well, you heard what John McCain just tweeted or e-mailed to one of the correspondents.
You can join us, by the way, for the national conversation whenever you visit Atlanta. Join call 1-877-4CNN-TOUR.
I am so glad you are here.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
RICK SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR: I have got a ton of people on my list today that I'm following, and, obviously, one of them is Mr. Brown, the new senator from Massachusetts. And guess what -- he just tweeted. So let's look at his tweet. There it is. He writes, "This was an amazing campaign, and I appreciate your support. You were incredible." That hash tag by the way is for the folks that have been following the Senate race in Massachusetts, thereby MASN Brooke Baldwin, in case you didn't know it.
Now to this -- we've all watched those extreme sports videos, right, you know, the daredevils and snowboarders coasting down an impossible steep mountainside, and sometimes we're not really sure if we are rooting for them or too busy cringing because of them.
Ever wonder how those videos get made and what happens to the bloopers? Let's do "Fotos."
Start in Hawaii. Surfing is the granddaddy of the extreme sports and one of the bestselling video. So these dudes went to great lengths to show their skills. They needed two helicopters to catch them catching the perfect waves. The trouble is one of those waves took the surfer dangerously close one of the helicopter blades.
The result could have been ugly, but then it would not be extreme without that extra bit of risk, would it?
Bay of Islands, and this is in New Zealand. You won't believe this, a lot of risk here, but a cool reward at the end. A Hungarian born skydiver completed a drop four years in the maker. This guys decides to thread the needle and zip through a hole in a popular rock formation that could kill him. It is really more of a cave. You are about to see it.
There it is. See the cave and the hole? He is going through it, whipping through it more than 100 miles an hour. He didn't make it all the way through, so he missed the world record, but, yes, who is complaining. Can you imagine if he -- yes, he says he will try it again. Show it to us. We will air it.
Woodsboro, Maryland -- since we're on the ground, we will end up on the ground, or in this case underground. That's where a 30-year- old appaloosa ended up when a sink hole suddenly surprised him. His name is chief. Chief, what are doing down there? Oh, he is blind and deaf and can't hear, oh, well.
Here is the good news, after more than six hours in the cold night air, dedicated rescuers were able to pull chief out. You go, chief!
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CORINNE GELLER, VIRGINIA STATE POLICE SPOKESWOMAN: It is a horrific tragedy and one of the worst mass killings in Virginia probably since the Virginia Tech tragedy in April of 2007.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Unbelievable -- a man accused of going on a deadly shooting spree. Did you hear about this one last night? And you are not going to believe what happened when a police helicopter shows up on the scene, what this guy does. That's next.
Then later -- how big a hit did the White House take last night when a Republican won the state of Massachusetts' Senate? I'm going to ask Wolf Blitzer about this, and he has been doing a lot of covering and a lot of thinking, so "The List" scrolls on. There's Brooke. Hi, Brooke.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: I told you a little while ago on "The List" what was going on with this guy who show started shooting at people. Brooke Baldwin is here joining us now with an update on this story. Thanks for getting out here.
Not only did he allegedly kill a bunch of people, he also tried to shoot down a police helicopter?
BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Right. Let me start with the fact that we are getting some breaking developments. I just chatted with the southeast desk real quickly, and police just finished talking.
And we are talking about a story that you may have not caught with everything going on in Haiti and the Massachusetts race, but in Appomattox County southwest of Richmond, this suspect is suspected of shooting and killing eight people. There was this massive manhunt.
Now police say they have now found the explosives in this guy's home and on the property, and this is coming in. But who best to put it in perspective than the Virginia state police. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GELLER: This is a horrific tragedy and definitely one of the worst mass killings in Virginia probably since the Virginia Tech tragedy in April of 2007.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: Yes, so that will put it in perspective for you.
SANCHEZ: Who was he trying to kill? What is up with this guy?
BALDWIN: We don't know. We don't know. That's the thing.
But I want to talk about what we do know. He is 39 years old and he is Christopher Speight. It all started basically on Tuesday, when this call goes in to 911 and this woman sees a body lying in the middle of the road, this rural road, and calls police. We have sound from her on the 911 call. Let's roll that and I will then backtrack.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TAMMY LEE RANDOLPH, CALLED 911: We come up on the hillside, and we see a body laying to the left. We didn't know that the person was shot at the time, because you can't tell by the vehicle until you got up on the person. As we got up on the person, I seen blood on the hood.
Of course, I called 911 instantly. My mom got out, and my son was still in his car seat, and my mom got out and went to the body and was trying to talk to the guy. Of course, we didn't get no response from the guy. We could hear him moaning and see him breathing, but that is about it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: So, that was the first body and police found tree in Speight's home, four just outside. What they did since that is they did all this huge perimeter and searching in the woods outside of his house. And as you mentioned with the police helicopter, they are searching for Speight who was hiding out overnight in the woods and who finally surrendered this morning wearing a bulletproof vest and weapon.
But allegedly, he opens fire on the state police helicopter, and they found four different areas where he was shot at.
SANCHEZ: And so-to-speak, he shot it down, because they had to get out of the air. They didn't crash, but...
BALDWIN: They didn't crash. They made an emergency landing.
But the issue was police were looking for him overnight, and they finally found him this morning with this huge key piece of information, because they were slowed in their search of the victims today because of these booby traps essentially, these explosive devices they found in and around the home slowing the whole thing down.
Police say he knew the victims, and they are not going further, because, again, they have not identified them, but a whole lot of questions.
SANCHEZ: Here is the thing, a guy kills allegedly eight people.
BALDWIN: Eight people, right.
SANCHEZ: Shoots at a helicopter. They find munitions and explosives in and around the home, and we have no idea at this point what the motive could possibly be.
BALDWIN: We don't know. I won't speculate. We don't know.
SANCHEZ: But he's in custody.
BALDWIN: He is in custody and charges pending, and no motive. They have no idea so far. We will find out.
SANCHEZ: Heck of a story.
BALDWIN: We will let you know what we find out.
SANCHEZ: All happening while everything else is happening. BALDWIN: I know, busy week.
SANCHEZ: Thanks, Brooke.
BALDWIN: Thanks.
SANCHEZ: Also, I will talk to these two guys in just a little bit. There he is, Roland Martin, ladies and gentlemen, he is back. And then this man, Erick Erickson. Erick, interestingly enough -- give me a smile, Erick, he just wrote an article called "Obama's Unicorn of Hope and Change died under the weight of Ted Kennedy's ego." Ouch! OK. Defend. We will be right back to let the man do so.
Stay right there. "The List" scrolls on.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Welcome back. I'm Rick Sanchez. We're not done yet with this Massachusetts' thing, and yes, we are getting a lot of tweets on "RICK'S LIST" that I am going to be sharing with you from folks who are very relevant to the story. So standby for those.
Who could have seen the Senate thing happening to the Republicans and the Democrats? Maybe I should say happening for the Republicans, right, the seat that Ted Kennedy had held for nearly half a century. Is this Massachusetts' speaking, or, odd as it may seem, is it America speaking through the state of Massachusetts? Those are two different things.
Joining me from New Orleans is CNN political analyst and one of my favorite guys, Roland Martin, and there he is once again. Also joining us today is Washington conservative blogger Erick Erickson. He is the managing editor of redstate.com.
And he was written article, and I'll read you the title once again, and Erick I think we are going to start with you, because I think to a certain extent you have to defend this. "Obama's Unicorn of Hope and Change died under the weight of Ted Kennedy's ego." You know, Ted Kennedy is dead, man, and that is a hell of a thing to write.
ERICK ERICKSON, CONSERVATIVE BLOGGER, REDSTATE.COM: Yes, it is, but I think it is an accurate statement, hyperbole of the blog aside. If you remember back in 2004, Kennedy championed the state of Massachusetts changing its appointment laws for the Senate, because he thought John Kerry might win.
Roll that forward into this past year, and if you remember back in the early part of 2009 into mid-2009, there were a lot of stories about how Kennedy was not going to resign from the Senate given the health condition. He would stay and become the rallying cry for health care. Well, he did, and it didn't work out.
And had he resigned when it was clear that he had a terminal condition, the Democrats would have held the special election before the voter angst reached a level where a Republican could win a year after Barack Obama took the state by 26 points.
SANCHEZ: Well, hard to argue with that. Roland, he makes a good point. If some things had been a little different, I suppose, that the Democrats would not be feeling the way they do today, right?
ROLAND MARTIN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: And if President George W. Bush had fired vice president Dick Cheney early on, frankly, they would have held on to the Congress in 2006.
Here is the reality -- the bottom line is Martha Coakley had a 30-point lead in the polls a month ago, so they totally blew it. So that is absolutely irrelevant. You can try to point to any number of things.
But not only that, it is politics, Rick. I have seen Republicans and Democrats change the rules to suit them regardless of who is in power. That is what they often do, and both parties do it.
SANCHEZ: Well, let me call you a little bit on that, because it is always unfair when you play another team and they beat your butt and we say we had a bad game.
MARTIN: It wasn't a bad game.
SANCHEZ: You are not giving credit to the opponents when you say that.
MARTIN: No. Well, first of all, I'm not in any of these particular games. I don't play the games with them.
Here is the reality, and that is the Democrats could have won the state had they paid attention to what was happening in the country in terms of what was happening on the ground.
SANCHEZ: I see.
MARTIN: But also, when you break down -- Robert Gibbs in that news conference, the White House briefing said it, there is a lot of blame to go around, a lot of blame to Coakley, and a lot of blame in terms of the White House, the DNC.
But the Republicans, also, when you are a Republican running in the race, you run a smart race. If they are screwing up, you don't screw up. Scott Brown didn't screw up. He also came up with a very clear and concise message. And while they were sleeping, he was running.
SANCHEZ: Here is the question...
MARTIN: But Rick...
SANCHEZ: Here is the question we are left with. Is this a national referendum or simply a Massachusetts' referendum?
MARTIN: National.
SANCHEZ: Erick, to you. Go ahead, Erick.
ERICKSON: When I look at this, you see people starting I guess two weeks ago in Massachusetts sending $1 million a day to Scott Brown. You saw conservatives across the country who are not big on pro choice candidates rallying to this guy, who is.
SANCHEZ: It is a national referendum.
ERICKSON: Yes, I think it becomes one.
SANCHEZ: And Roland, you think it's a national referendum?
MARTIN: Well, first of all, it became a national referendum when all of a sudden, people saw the guy has a chance to actually win, here are the repercussions of his victory, let's put the money behind him right now.
If two weeks ago Scott Brown was still down by 30 points, you would not see $1 million. When they saw he was within striking distance that is what changed, and the Democrats responded too late. The reason it is a national referendum...
ERICKSON: I think that is a little dismissive.
MARTIN: No, I'm not dismissing it. It is also a fact. If he was down 30 points two weeks ago, people would not have people poured the money in.
ERICKSON: It's like the money bomb was planned long before that.
MARTIN: And just like in 2008 when then Senator Barack Obama, when he saw he was in striking distance in North Carolina. They had pulled money out, and they saw a striking distance, and put money back in That is my whole point there.
But Rick, it is a national referendum --
ERICKSON: But the grass roots made it viable before two weeks ago.
SANCHEZ: Give Erick a chance here. Go ahead, Erick, make your point.
ERICKSON: Well, the grass roots who planted this money bomb two weeks ago that brought in these million dollars a day, they were planning it well before he started to rise in the poll numbers, because they knew they could make Massachusetts a referendum.
Maybe the establishment guys down here in D.C., they took a while to figure this out, but the grassroots activists, the tea party guys were back in December already beginning to rally to Scott Brown, and at Red States were writing about him after Thanksgiving.
MARTIN: But you said it, one of the reasons they begin to do that is because they were aware of what the internal polling was showing with Scott Brown's campaign. Rick, nobody just all of the sudden goes, hey, we are losing by 30 points, let's just send some money. Congressman Ron Paul I don't think in this case...
SANCHEZ: Let's get out of the weeds for a minute.
MARTIN: Thank you.
SANCHEZ: Let's get out of the weeds for a minute and talk about where this is going. Let me ask you both this question. You are Barack Obama, and you look at what happened last night in Washington in Massachusetts and you are back in Washington. What do you do? What do you do? How do you change the strategy, because it looks like they have to change the strategy?
Eric, this will be interesting, and let me ask you this question. I'm going to put you in the opposition's chair. What would you do if you were Barack Obama?
ERICKSON: If I were Barack Obama, I would actually drop health care immediately and cap and trade. Those are the two things that have generated so much voter angst.
The criticism that a lot of the grassroots activists have and a lot of the independents have is that he has spent so much time on health care and cap and trade, he has dropped the ball on other issues including national security.
I think he needs to show he is working on those and getting back to that and spending time in the White House doing this, and maybe he will get it turned around.
SANCHEZ: Well, you see, that is not fair, spending time in the White House. You could say a lot of things about this president, but one thing you cannot say about him is that he is not working hard. This guy is -- are you saying that, by the way, that Obama is lazy?
ERICKSON: I am not saying that, but I am saying that there is an appearance, particularly after the Christmas bomber when he was on the golf course in Hawaii which, again, I think the president can stay on vacation and work, and I've said that on CNN, but there is a perception among a lot of grassroots guys that he is not.
MARTIN: Rick, here's what is ridiculous and childish when it comes to ideology. President George W. Bush was also on a golf course giving a statement about the shoe bomber and went back to play golf six days after. That's nonsense.
Here's the deal. People are driving the issue...
ERICKSON: No, it's not.
MARTIN: It's nonsense. Rick, it's driving the issue -- excuse me I'm going to finish my point.
SANCHEZ: One at a time. MARTIN: Rick, it comes to the economy. And what you have here, and here is the fundamental problem that you have with Democrats and the difference with the Republicans. Let's just be honest, Democrats typically are not as proactive and strong and they dance around issues.
Democrats don't operate in the House and the Senate with real serious, hardcore majorities. And that is, they typically have about 165 votes, and they have to then work with about 40 other people to get to 220. Republicans simply start with 205. And so Democrats have all of the different constituencies.
What the president has to do is first of all say I need to take this loss personally, because what he had was a movement that was created when he was elected, but they simply allowed those people to slide away, did not keep them engaged and did now allow the opposition to define change.
And so he now...
SANCHEZ: We get it.
MARTIN: And so he's not trying to redefine change. They've already defined change, and they said no, we'll do it for you. He did not do that.
SANCHEZ: So you're saying it's a strategy issue for Barack Obama. Erick, you're saying he has to work harder. I'll let you get out of that one more time just so it doesn't stay on the record. Are you implying the president's lazy, Erick?
ERICKSON: No. I'm not implying the president's lazy. I'm saying there is an appearance among a lot of people, particularly independents, that he's so focused on these big spending issues that he's not focused on the issues that the voters care about.
SANCHEZ: I'm glad you clarified that for us. That's perfectly fine.
We're out of time, guys. Great discussion, enjoyed it. Good points made by both sides. And Roland martin, can't wait to see you again, my friend. Erick, same to you. Welcome aboard, by the way, Erick, it was nice having you on.
ERICKSON: Thank you.
SANCHEZ: Also this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SCOTT BROWN, (R) MASSACHUSETTS SENATOR-ELECT: Tonight the independent majority has delivered a great victory.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Mr. Brown is going to Washington, and some say that the Obama agenda may never be the same. Ten minutes, Wolf blitzer's going to be here. He'll be talking about just how much power the senator- elect really has.
Also ahead, does the Bible have any business being part of the military weapons that are used by our soldiers against the enemies? Just think about that. It turns out some of the weapons that are being used in war, that are being taken to the battlefield, have that code inscribed in them. That's right. It's a Bible verse.
"The List" continues.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: I know we've only been at this for three day, but one of the things that I try to do that's different is I try to reach out to people who are relevant, in some cases famous, newsworthy, have something to do with what we talk about each and every day.
I think we just got somebody who is very famous, who is now tweeting. For the very first time in their entire lives, they're starting to tweet -- Bill Gates. This is the first tweet ever sent out by Bill Gates.
Bill Gates says "Hello world. Hard at work on my foundation letter, publishing it on the 25th." That's interesting. I just sent a letter to -- a tweet to Bill Gates inviting him on the show. It was a little bit presumptuous on my part, but nonetheless I did it.
And here's Ben Stiller. He just sent this tweet to Bill Gates and I thought you would like this so I'm going to share it with you. He says "Let me know if you'd like technical tips on how it all works, like what makes a computer run, et cetera."
(LAUGHTER)
Now that's presumptuous. Ben Stiller tweeting Bill Gates and here on "The List" and they're both on "The List.
Also this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SCOTT BROWN, (R) MASSACHUSETTS SENATOR-ELECT: I'm nobody's senator, I am nobody's senator except yours.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: You are looking at a living, breathing message out of Massachusetts. Senator-elect Scott Brown has the power to undo health care reform, the cornerstone of the Obama agenda. Who better to break all of this down with all going on in our country right now than our own Wolf Blitzer? There he is. He's coming up.
Also, the person that you should have sang no, no, no, to "the list you don't want to be on." That's right. We're going to tell you who is on the list that you don't want to be on. Trust me, this one's good. Stay there.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: You know those signs at the airport that say joking about hijacking or terrorism will not be considered funny. Guess what? If you twitter as most of us do, it applies to you as well, and you, Bill Gates. Even if you live in England or happen to be there, take this as a warning, all of you, as we reveal "the list you don't want to be on."
How is this British humor? It's a question. This guy dashed off a tweet when heavy snow shut down the Sheffield airport a few days before a flight that he had planned.
Paul Chambers says he was just messing around when he typed this, quote, "Crap, Robin Hood airport is closed." He continued "You've got a week and a bit to get your stuff together" otherwise -- this is what he tweeted, this is what got him in trouble -- "I'm blowing the airport sky high." That's what he said.
Somehow British authorities didn't think that was very funny. They showed up at his house and they hauled the tweeter off to jail for terrorism. They grilled him for seven hours, released him on bond, and then he says they banned him from the airport for life.
Also, we tried to contact Chambers, but he's locked up his Twitter account. Mr. Chambers, we're not locking you out. In fact, you're on the list -- not the one you want to be on, though.
