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Rick's List
Aftershocks Rock Haiti; Is Health Care Reform Dead?
Aired January 20, 2010 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
RICK SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR: Next on the list you don't want to be on, they tried to make her go to rehab. She said no, no, no. Remember this? Play the song if you have got it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
AMY WINEHOUSE, MUSICIAN (singing): They tried to make me go to rehab. I say, no, no, no.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: That's Amy Winehouse. She pled guilty this morning to what the British call common assault and disorder. They say that she was drunk when she pulled a guy's hair and called him bad names around Christmas last year.
We hear no jail time, but she's not going to keep her nose clean for two years, or it's back before the judge and big, big trouble. Amy Winehouse, number two.
Who is number one? Who's number one? You could probably figure this out if you follow politics. I'm going to tell you during our next hour.
For many, the message from Massachusetts is loud and clear. The voters' decision to send a Republican to the Senate, even if it puts health care reform at great risk, has almost completely changed the political landscape.
Just one month ago, one month ago, no one -- at least no one who is telling the truth -- would have thought a freshman senator could hold so much clout. But, today, Scott Brown could be Washington's biggest game-changer.
Wolf Blitzer hosts "THE SITUATION ROOM," but I have asked him to join me now, early, because I really want -- I'm intrigued by his perspective on this story.
Wolf, how are you?
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Good, Rick. Thanks very much.
SANCHEZ: What a night, huh? Outside of Massachusetts, people have got to be saying, who -- who is this guy, right?
BLITZER: It's the equivalent of the Democrats winning a special election, a Democrat winning a special election, let's say, in Wyoming or Utah or Texas. That would be -- that would be a political bombshell as well.
The Republicans winning a special election in Massachusetts, especially Teddy Kennedy's seat, that is a bombshell. It's one of those political stories that doesn't come around that often.
SANCHEZ: You know, I heard Gibbs just a little while ago at the White House briefing, and he seemed to be saying that the president is almost putting pressure on Democrats not to try and do anything sneaky here by -- you know what I'm talking about...
BLITZER: Yes.
SANCHEZ: ... trying to get the health care thing through.
What -- what do you make of that? What's your analysis of that?
BLITZER: I don't think the -- I don't think the president has any choice right now, because the Democrats in the Senate, Jim Webb, the Democratic senator from Virginia, he issued a statement very quickly last night saying the Democrats should not have any votes on health care reform until the newly elected senator from Massachusetts, Scott Brown, is seated, is sworn in, so he can participate.
SANCHEZ: Huh.
BLITZER: So, the president really, I don't think, has any choice. In this interview he did with George Stephanopoulos today on ABC News...
SANCHEZ: We got it. We got it. I think we got some of that. I was just told by Angie we have got a little bit of that interview.
Let's play it for the viewers, so they know what you and I are talking about.
BLITZER: All right.
SANCHEZ: Here it is. Here is that interview, and -- the president said to George Stephanopoulos.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, ABC NEWS)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: My assessment of -- of not just the mood in Massachusetts, but the mood around the country, the same thing that swept Scott Brown into office swept me into office. People are angry and they're frustrated, not just because of what's happened in the last year or two years, but what's happened over the last eight years.
GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS, HOST, "THIS WEEK WITH GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS": What is the strategy on health care going forward?
OBAMA: Here's one thing I know, and I just want to make sure that this is off the table. The Senate certainly shouldn't try to jam anything through until Scott Brown is seated. The people of Massachusetts spoke. He's got to be part of that process.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: You know -- you know what I'm taking when I'm listening to him and wondering about this whole thing, Wolf? Maybe you will agree or disagree with me on this.
It seemed like George Bush was -- George W. Bush was the master of lowering expectations, so people would -- so people wouldn't expect a lot, and then there would be some results.
And as I put my mike back on, I will finish the question.
President Barack Obama has, to a certain extent, has he not, raised expectations, so people may be thinking, one year into his administration, where we are today, that a lot of the stuff would be resolved already, but it hasn't. So they're blaming it on him.
BLITZER: Yes, the expectations were so enormously raised a year ago in that inaugural address. And we covered it exactly one year ago today. It's hard to believe it's already been a year.
The expectations were huge, and the president promised all sorts of things. When you take a look at health care reform, originally -- you will remember this, Rick, and a lot of viewers will as well -- it was supposed to be a done deal by the August recess of last year. Then it was supposed to be a done deal by the Thanksgiving recess, then by the Christmas recess, then by the State of the Union address, which is a week from today.
Well, it's not going to be a done deal by the State of the Union address. They have let it go on and on and on and on. It's been almost a year, and I think, in part, the White House is to blame for this, because they let the Democratic leadership in the House and the Senate take charge.
Instead of the president, right at the beginning, saying, this is what I want, this is what I need, you guys have to do it, he let Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid and their supporters in the House and the Senate go through it.
And while it's -- and that gets ugly, as you know.
SANCHEZ: Well...
BLITZER: And I think that's part of the delay, and it's caused this opportunity for the Republicans to generate this kind of momentum that we have seen, not only, Rick, in Massachusetts, but earlier in New Jersey, that statewide gubernatorial race, and in Virginia, two states the president carried in November 2008.
SANCHEZ: I have got a sports analogy for you, since you and I are talking as two guys that know each other well and trust each other.
And you know this, because this is one of the teams you followed. You're a Buffalo Bills fan. I'm a Miami Dolphins fan. When Don Shula was hired to go to the Miami Dolphins, the first words that came out of his mouth were, don't expect miracles, because I am not a miracle- maker.
That's the first thing he said to the people of Miami. The team was horrible. I think they won one game in three years, or something like that. Little by little, he built them into a super team, and they went to the Super Bowl.
Did this president, should this president, Wolf Blitzer, have done something similar to that Don Shula strategy, and told the American people, this could be a long, rough row to hoe, and don't expect anything, don't think that this health care plan is going to get us out of this mess, for example?
BLITZER: The short answer is yes. He -- he -- the expectations were huge, and they were always unrealistic, given the nature of politics.
Now, look, the Democrats have the -- have, still have, a huge majority in the Senate and the House of Representatives. I think, though, looking back, a lot of historians will say it was a mistake to defer, to let the leadership in the Congress take charge, write this bill, without the White House really taking charge.
And, in part, it was because remember what happened in '93 and '94, during the first two years of the Clinton administration. And a lot of Obama's staff used to work for Bill Clinton. They -- they tried to do it, then ram it through Congress. They failed. And, to a certain degree, they were fighting that war this time. It looks like it was a mistake.
It's not over with yet.
SANCHEZ: No.
BLITZER: They still might be able to salvage something on health care reform, but it's certainly not going to be the sweeping vision that so many people thought would happen.
SANCHEZ: That's a smart analysis. My thanks to you, Wolf Blitzer, for taking us through that on this really important political day in this country.
Wolf, we will look forward to THE SITUATION ROOM.
BLITZER: Thanks, Rick.
SANCHEZ: Now I understand we're able to get some information that's just now coming in. My producers were just talking to me a moment ago through my IFB. That's this little thing that I wear in my ear, by the way, in case you were wondering.
I'm told that there's something going on in Haiti right now.
And Anderson Cooper is standing by to let us know what's going on.
Anderson, I'm throwing to you cold here. Pick up the story. Tell us what's going on.
ANDERSON COOPER, HOST, "ANDERSON COOPER 360": Rick, I want to show you the -- the face of hope in Haiti, a little boy by name of Monle Alise (ph).
I was at General Hospital about an hour-and-a-half ago, when he came in. His uncle brought him in, in a vehicle, took him out, rushed him through the hundred -- crowds of hundreds of people who were waiting.
This -- this little boy, according to the uncle, was pulled out of the rubble of his home today at around 12:30. Extraordinary, that a 5- year-old boy could live for eight days in the rubble. He was found in a void space in the collapsed home curled up, his uncle says, just in a ball on the floor.
They had heard him crying out. The uncle was actually searching through the rubble, looking for the dead body of his brother, this boy's father, also believes his boy's mother is dead and is in the rubble as well, didn't find those two bodies, but heard the little boy crying out, and with four of his friends, not with some international search-and-rescue team, but with four of his friends, pulled the little boy out, he says, and brought him immediately to the hospital.
You see, he is being treated by a doctor and a nurse from the International Medical Corps. They say, remarkably, he's not in that bad shape. He's severely dehydrated. They're giving him, obviously, fluids right away, intravenous fluids.
But you could also tell he was really dehydrated by pinching his skin. Normally, if you pinch your skin or my skin, it bounces right back. When you pinch somebody who is severely -- severe dehydration, you pinch the skin, the skin stays in that position, and it doesn't bounce back.
SANCHEZ: Oh.
COOPER: They could also tell that the boy's internal -- that his body was essentially starting to feed on itself.
There was a smell, actually, of alcohol emanating from his organs...
SANCHEZ: Oh.
COOPER: ... which the doctor assured me is the smell of someone who has this syndrome of wasting, the body, as I said, just sort of consuming itself.
SANCHEZ: Wow.
COOPER: But, you know, this little boy drank water for the first time. They couldn't give him too much water. He actually even said he was hungry, but they couldn't feed him right away, because you can't do that to someone who hasn't had anything for eight days.
His uncle said he didn't think he had had food or water. Medically, that seems extraordinary. We don't know the situation this little boy faced while he was in the rubble. All he could say is, "I'm thirsty, I'm thirst, I'm thirsty." And he would say that over and over again, Rick.
SANCHEZ: What a story, eight -- eight days, eight days just sitting there waiting, hoping, praying while you have nothing to drink and nothing to eat.
Anderson, I have to ask you a question about what happened last night. When I woke up this morning, the first thing I heard there that had been another earthquake. We call them aftershocks. First, they said it 6.1. Now it's five-point-something. The numbers don't really matter.
But what was it like? How big of an effect did it have on Port-au- Prince? And what was it like for you when you felt it?
COOPER: You know, honestly, I mean, it was like 6:00 a.m. I had just gotten up. The building started to sway. It was clearly the -- it felt like the biggest aftershock I had felt since I have been here.
You know, I -- honestly, I looked up at the ceiling, kind of wondering, is the ceiling going to collapse? And then I put on a pair of pants and went and stood in the doorway of the room that I'm staying in, because the doorways are the safest place to stay.
I thought about running out of the building. But, you know, to be honest, it was a long way to the stair, and I figured I wouldn't get there anyway if the whole thing was coming down, so I would just stay in the doorway.
So, that's what I did. And the building held up. And I was thankful of that. It is a hotel that I have been able to stay in. I think someone in the hotel who worked -- from Portugal, I heard, actually jumped out a window and injured himself trying to escape.
SANCHEZ: Oh.
COOPER: So, I'm a big believer in that you can run into something as much as run away from something. So, I just kind of got into a doorway and stood where I was.
But, you know, as happens with all aftershocks, the -- the park behind me, which is still home to hundreds and hundreds of people, after there's an aftershock, people just start screaming. There's a wail that goes up that is -- it's just -- it's a horrible sound. People are understandably scared.
Something like one of these big aftershocks we had this morning really brings it back for people. And there are so many people sleeping on the streets nudged up against buildings, instantly, everybody runs away from the buildings, tries to kind of congregate in the park itself, so that nothing will fall down on them.
But it was -- and, Rick, I was just at that hospital. The reason I had gone to that hospital where I saw the little boy today is because they actually ended up having to evacuate all the patients from General Hospital and put them in the courtyard of the hospital. And they had been sitting out in the sun, getting dehydrated.
I mean, it is -- it is a mess there today. They're now -- the building is safe. Structural engineers looked at it from the Army Corps of Engineers. They're -- they're now moving patients slowly back in, but it has -- it has caused, you know, a big setback for -- for an awful lot of folks here.
SANCHEZ: I will tell you, scary times down there.
Anderson Cooper doing yeoman's work day after day, night after night, bringing us the stories that are taking place right now in and around Port-au-Prince and Haiti.
Thanks, Anderson. Appreciate it.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
RICK SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): Making the LIST right now: Democrats defeated in Massachusetts badly.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think that the Democrats really need to rethink how they are going to run campaigns.
SANCHEZ: Meanwhile, the Grand Old Party today calling the win a national referendum. Health care, the wars, tea parties, what did it?
MARTHA COAKLEY (D), MASSACHUSETTS SENATORIAL CANDIDATE: We will always remember our terrific Senator Ted Kennedy and his words: The work begins anew.
SANCHEZ: You inspired yet? Maybe it was just the candidate herself.
Is that a biblical verse on that rifle, soldier? God and war, does that make us too much like them? Is it legal? What's the Army say? We are asking.
The lists you need to know about. Who is today's most intriguing person? Who is on the list you don't want to be on? We will find out as our national conversation on Twitter, on the air continues.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: All right. Look at that. Can you figure out what it is? Yes, it looks like a stream, right, a babbling brook, maybe a small river.
No. You're wrong. You know what that is? That's a golf course, and that is the golf cart path. That's right.
(LAUGHTER)
SANCHEZ: How would you like to be playing golf today out in California? Because that's where this is coming from, Victorville, California. No, that is not a brook, it's not a stream, it's not a river. That is actually a golf cart path. And those little bridges you see there, that's where the golf cart is supposed to go under to go on to the next hole. Isn't that amazing?
Chad Myers watching this for us.
CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Man.
SANCHEZ: He was watching it yesterday when it first happened.
You know, again, we're just not used to this kind of stuff.
MYERS: Yes.
SANCHEZ: And, out West, when it rains, I mean, it just comes down big, right...
MYERS: Well...
SANCHEZ: ... whereas, out East, it is very different.
MYERS: Well, yes. This is -- this is El Nino. In its classic form, this is El Nino, the water, the rain, the moisture, the humidity and the snow, all coming from the moisture that's in the Pacific, all of this coming onshore and plowing here, making significant snow for the Sierra, up to four feet so far. Tahoe is just getting pounded -- great skiing, when you can get there -- even up into Mammoth Mountain, 41 inches of snow in three days.
There is your rainfall in L.A. It is coming down. And I'm going to zoom in, because there's more heavy rain still offshore coming through the islands, still coming your way.
SANCHEZ: Wow.
MYERS: So, although we have the pictures here, I know we just got some pictures in. And we're going to kind of we call hot roll these, Rick, because haven't had time to edit them, just put them on TV, and we will see what happens.
KCAL -- I know that's what you do on your show, so I will just keep doing it.
SANCHEZ: You keep doing it, man.
(LAUGHTER)
MYERS: KCAL, KCBS.
Heavy rainfall yesterday in Long Beach. Today, it's right in L.A., and Anaheim picking up rainfall as well. Just be careful out there. You know, we -- you don't have the huge threat of deep water like we do in places where topography, because L.A. is basically a basin.
But you take this water, like it's going, into the San Gabriels and all the way up into the mountain areas around L.A...
SANCHEZ: Wow.
MYERS: ... and there will be mudslides. There will be death-defying feats of mudslides coming down here.
I have got a couple of things you can actually see from iReport. If you go to iReport.com, a lot of people have been sending things in here. You can take a look at some things. Just go right on there.
And if you have some and you can stay safe, take some pictures and send them to us. I would love to put them on the air. But, L.A., you are in for much more rain to come.
SANCHEZ: So, what we're talking -- yesterday, you and I were talking about possible tornadoes.
MYERS: Yes.
SANCHEZ: Now we're talking about mudslides, potentially?
MYERS: We had one cell yesterday that was rotating. And it may have actually put down a tornado. We know it was a 93-mile-per-hour wind gust near Huntington Beach.
SANCHEZ: Yes.
MYERS: And there's -- so there could have been a waterspout that came onshore.
SANCHEZ: No. But, I mean, my point is, this thing about the mudslides kind of concerns me. How big a risk is out there? Does it depend on now how much rain they get?
(CROSSTALK)
MYERS: No. It depends on how much rain has already come down. We have had three days of this. So, now this is the addition, this is the additive factor. Two inches, plus two inches, plus two equals mudslide. If you get two in any one day, and it stops, you're OK.
SANCHEZ: Right.
MYERS: This rain hasn't stopped for more than about 12 hours. So, when you get this accumulating rainfall, that's when you can get the mud on the hill to literally almost liquefy. It becomes supersaturated, is the word, and it just runs straight downhill, especially where the burns have been, where those burn areas have taken the vegetation off the hills...
SANCHEZ: Yes.
MYERS: ... all the way, La Canada Flintridge, those areas there getting evacuated in some areas. If they tell you to evacuate, they're not kidding around.
SANCHEZ: Wow. Unbelievable how a story develops like this. You know, what -- we're talking about the possible tornadic activity yesterday. We're talking about the flooding today, and we may be talking about the mudslides tomorrow.
MYERS: Sure.
SANCHEZ: That's the way news works when you're talking about weather, though.
Chad, good stuff. Thanks for bringing us up-to-date on this.
MYERS: You bet, Rick.
SANCHEZ: All right. We're going to be following some of Rick's List.
As a matter of fact, let me bring you up-to-date on some of the people that we're following right now. Let's go over to the list, if we possibly can.
The governor of Florida, who we have interviewed on this newscast on several occasions, he is communicating this. He says that the new senator from Massachusetts is going to D.C. tomorrow. That's Thursday, right? Yes -- and that he needs to be seated. We had learned this from John King a little while ago -- needs to be seated right away.
So, needs to be seated, that's the -- that's the message we're getting from all Republicans, including Charlie Crist, the governor of the state of the Sunshine State of Florida, my hometown.
Now this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We don't know if there is hollow ground underneath of him or not. We don't know if his legs are broken, but, basically, we are going to use the fact that he is sedated and hopefully drag him out, and then put him on a sling.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: That's an amazing story. I mean, suddenly, you get that sinkhole that just pops out, out of nowhere. The poor horse has bucked the odds before, but now he's in a very tight spot. It's an amazing story. You will see how this one finishes up.
Also, a dramatic rescue and chants of USA, USA, USA. It's -- you know, this video tends to give you goose bumps when you watch it. I know it did for me.
Also, our most intriguing person number two. Here's a hint. He's a superstar in the sports world, and he's starring in a first-ever. That's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: You know, one of the things I like to do is always bring you up to date on what I'm hearing and that's why I check all the different lists of relevant people to stories. We're following Haiti, as you know, here at CNN very closely. And we're doing the same thing on social media. So, let's go to Rick's List now on Twitter.
We're checking with UNICEF. And this is one of the officials with UNICEF who is down there now and he's sending me tweets throughout this newscast. I shared one with you a little while ago. Here's another one he just sent.
"Just left Santo Domingo." Hold on. Take that one back, Eric, if you could. "Just left Santo Domingo trauma center. Treating Haitian children brought in from the border. Facilities at the border are stretched to capacity," he writes.
And then he sent this one a little while ago. He says: "Rick Sanchez, in days ahead, the hospital director predicts that military needed to help maintain order, as more Haitians seek care and info about loved ones."
So, he's talking about the security there and about them possibly needing more troops or more security officials to try and control thing, if nothing else, the long lines that are developing for food and for health care.
For any football player, the Super Bowl is the ultimate dream date, the pinnacle of a career. Of course, you usually have to play for the NFL to appear in one, unless you're number two on our list of the most intriguing persons of the day.
His parents were Christian missionaries in the Philippines when his mother got a serious infection that jeopardized her pregnancy. She ignored doctors' recommendations to have an abortion and gave birth to him in 1987. He grew up to quarterback for the Florida Gators, win a Heisman Trophy, and cry on the sidelines when his team lost to Alabama's Crimson Tide in the SEC Championship Game.
Our second most intriguing person of the day is Tim Tebow -- you go, Tim -- who will appear with his mom in a multimillion-dollar commercial during this year's Super Bowl. And they're expected to tell their story in the first-ever Super Bowl ad by James Dobson's Christian group Focus on the Family.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The first time I saw it in a postcard, the first thing I thought that it would be really awesome to fly through the hole. It is just the perfect size. If a helicopter can fly through it, I can fly through it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: This guy is not your typical skydiver. The twist that he put on his latest jump will blow you away. He actually tries to skydive through a hole in a mountainside, or maybe cliff, a cave.
It's a dramatic rescue as well that unfolds, and the crowds just can't contain themselves. We will bring you the stories that are going on next. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: You have got to see this one, because, last night, when I saw this, I was just sitting up in bed just doing a little research before getting ready to come in to work this morning. And I watched this, and I got goose bumps. I'm serious. You probably will, too, if you're American, if you're proud of the United States.
It's a rare treat. It's a welcome break from watching, oh, the pain and the loss in Haiti. And here's what else it is, too, when you think about it. There has been so much said negatively about our country, the United States of America, and around the world in the last, you know, nine years or so. And here's an opportunity, with a piece of video that's being seen all over the world, that puts the United States in a very different light.
Let's watch this. Watch this. It's a dramatic hold-your-breath rescue. It's taking place in Port-au-Prince. The crew of the Los Angeles County Fire Department Rescue pulls a woman to safety and in full view of tense gathering crowd out there that were all nervous. It's a great moment.
Watch and listen as the people in the crowd suddenly, appreciatively, start chanting all by themselves, without being encouraged, "USA, USA." Let's listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CROWD: USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: They continue chanting. And you can hear them, and it starts up again, watch.
Put -- Jeff, hit the audio up a little bit right here.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: USA!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: USA!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: USA!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Now, if you watch the entire thing, especially from the moment it's very quiet, because they're looking for this woman, and then, suddenly, the silence is broken when they see the -- the body, or the person, coming out, the survivor coming out.
And then suddenly the silence is broken when they see the body or the person coming out, the survivor coming out, and then suddenly the chants start. It's a thing to watch.
It's on YouTube, by the way. And I'm also going to see if we can put it on my blog so you can watch the whole thing from beginning to end. We kind of cut it up a little bit.
This video and a few other rescue moments were posted online by the Haiti Joint Information Center run by USAID.
God and guns. One company thought that they went together, but others are up in arms about it.
And in our "Fotos," the extreme surfers who almost ended up in extreme dangers. That's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: We've all watched those extreme sports videos -- you know, the daredevil snowboarders coasting down an impossibly steep mountainside. Sometimes we're not really sure if we're rooting for them or we're busy cringing because of what might happen to them.
Have you had that feeling? I had that on New Year's Day.
BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Uh-oh.
SANCHEZ: Ever wonder how those videos get made and what happens to the bloopers?
Let's do "Fotos."
Hawaii -- surfing is the granddaddy of the extreme sports and one of the best-selling videos. So these dudes went to great lengths to show their skills.
They needed two helicopters to catch them doing the perfect wave. The problem is one of them went up in the air and almost hit the blade in that helicopter.
Is that crazy? Look at that. He almost was decapitated by that.
BALDWIN: That's why they call it extreme sports.
SANCHEZ: Extreme sports. Thank you very much, Brooke Baldwin. And it wouldn't be that if it was a risk involved. Right?
BALDWIN: Yes, right.
SANCHEZ: How about this? Look at this. This is the Bay of Islands in New Zealand. Watch.
Lots of cool risk here, but a cool reward at the end. This skydiver completes a drop four years in the making.
The guy decides to thread a needle, zipping through a hole in a popular rock formation that could kill him. It's really more of a cave. You ready, Brooke?
BALDWIN: I'm ready. I'm ready.
SANCHEZ: You're going to see this right here in just a minute.
BALDWIN: All right. Take me through it.
SANCHEZ: Look at it. You ready?
He's whipping at about 100 miles an hour. Now he's going to go into that cave right there and he's going to try to make it through without hitting the wall.
BALDWIN: Wow.
SANCHEZ: Watch. He goes in, but halfway down he doesn't make it all the way through, but at least he didn't hit the cave wall. He hit the ground.
BALDWIN: You've done that.
SANCHEZ: Yes, right.
BALDWIN: Piece of cake. Come on.
SANCHEZ: Sure. And then I wake up.
He says he's going to try again, and we'll show it if he does.
And this -- this is something, because Brooke's going to be telling you about something.
This is no ordinary rifle packing. It's packing more than bullets. It also has a bible reference.
You see that? That's a verse right there. I think it says 3:12. It's imprinted on there.
The question is, should our soldiers have something that is so related to our religion on the weapons that we use when we go to war? Is it legal? Are the rules OK? What's the Army say? And is it the right message to send?
Right? Good questions?
BALDWIN: You've got lots of questions for me.
SANCHEZ: And you're going to try to answer them.
BALDWIN: I will.
SANCHEZ: We'll be right back with Brooke Baldwin.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) SANCHEZ: This is a fascinating story I've been wanting to bring you since yesterday. You may have heard the phrase "Praise the lord and pass the ammunition." Well, what happens when the ammunition or, in this case, the gun, has religious references on it?
This is a story that's been getting some traction on the Web, so Brooke Baldwin has chosen to look into this for us.
BALDWIN: Yes.
SANCHEZ: It's interesting. First of all, let's show them the picture. Right?
BALDWIN: Let's go straight to the picture, because we're talking about, you know, if you grab a gun you have to be able to aim. Right? So, that thing on the top is called a sight (ph), and on the sight (ph) are these coded biblical references.
It's circled. You can kind of make it out. It's an 8 and a 12 referencing John 8:12.
SANCHEZ: Yes, Chapter 8, verse 12. "I am the light of the world."
BALDWIN: Right, but here's the thing. The company who manufactures these, according to this ABC News investigation -- they're the ones who broke this -- that they have this $660 million multiyear contract with the U.S. military.
Now, I want to be clear. I picked up the phone, I tried calling this Michigan-based company, Trijicon. They didn't call me back. But I want to give you a look, just a glimpse into their mission statement. You can find it on the Web site.
It's very clear here. They say, "We believe that America is great when its people are good. This goodness has been based on biblical standards throughout our history, and we will strive to follow those morals."
And even though they haven't talked to me yet, they did tell ABC News that their sights (ph) are used by both U.S. troops in both Iraq and Afghanistan and by soldiers in training, Iraq and Afghan soldiers.
SANCHEZ: Let me ask you a question. Is it legal? Does it violate the Constitution in any way? Because you know a lot of folks are going to be asking that question.
BALDWIN: Right.
SANCHEZ: And what about the rules that the Army has for something like this?
BALDWIN: Two good questions, two questions we looked into. Let me take it first by the military.
The military does have this rule that specifically prohibits the proselytizing of religion and specifically in Iraq and Afghanistan. There's been a lot of criticism that the U.S. is in there for this kind of religious crusade.
SANCHEZ: So if you're a Muslim, they don't want you writing "Allah" on your gun? If you're a Christian, they don't want you writing "Jesus" on your gun?
BALDWIN: This is specifically from the U.S. as we go into Iraq and Afghanistan.
Now, to tackle your Constitution question, because it's a question I had, you know, does it violate the Constitution? And I talked to a Constitution law professor and civil rights attorney. And he said -- specifically, this is Avery Friedman. I want to quote him.
He says, "While using goods produced by private companies with apparent religious codes 'sounds' inappropriate, proselytizing by a private company" -- keep in mind, Trijicon is private.
SANCHEZ: Private company, right.
BALDWIN: "Whether it's a supplier to the government or not, it is not unconstitutional."
He essentially said the onus falls on the military.
SANCHEZ: But then there's this -- let's talk about what a lot of people out there are thinking about. And look, I'm a Christian and I love Jesus Christ as much as the next guy as my savior. But if we're going to criticize people who are Muslim because they're using their God and their religion to threaten or want to kill us, should we be using on our weapons our God's name to want to threaten or kill them?
BALDWIN: There is one group in particular -- I said, "Is this hypocrisy." And they're saying it' so beyond that.
This is this group. This is the Military Religious Freedom Foundation, this (INAUDIBLE) group that is fighting to keep church and state separate. And they are on the story.
I talked to Mikey Weinstein (ph), who told me his organization has gotten hundreds of complaints from soldiers about these sights (ph), that they're...
SANCHEZ: Really? The soldiers are complaining?
BALDWIN: The soldiers themselves -- I looked at an e-mail he sent me, and some of the soldiers, according to this group, they have tried to file off these biblical codes on the sights (ph) on their weapons simply because they're worried that if they are caught by the enemy, that they would be tortured just based upon the religious etchings. And so they're filing suit.
SANCHEZ: A heck of a story.
BALDWIN: It's got legs. It's got legs.
SANCHEZ: Yes. It's got legs. Exactly. Now you're using my lingo. BALDWIN: Oh, God.
SANCHEZ: Thanks so much, Brooke.
Also this...
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. ANTHONY WEINER (D), NEW YORK: They're talking about what our deal is and what our negotiations are at the White House. Yes, I mean, if the last line is pigs flying out of my ass...
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Did he say that? Liberal Democrats frustrated, ridiculing House leaders for going ahead like nothing has changed in that statement by our next guest. Eric Weiner (sic), by the way. Pardon me. Anthony Weiner is going to be joining us in just a little bit. It must be the words or the part of his body he talked about that shook me up. I'm going to talk to him and Ron Paul in just a little bit. Next, our "Most Intriguing Person of the Day" has a message for those who like to wear it low. Is that right? BALDWIN: Wearing it low.
SANCHEZ: Wearing it low. OK.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: You just heard that promo moments ago with Wyclef Jean's name on it, or a mention of him and Anderson Cooper and George Clooney. Well, Wyclef Jean just sent this tweet, and I want to share this with you.
Go to that if we possibly can.
This is out of our "Rick's List" Twitter account.
"Buildings falling in the capital of Haiti. But in order to clean up the capital, we need a massive exodus."
He says the buildings are falling. He says they need everybody to leave. He says, "I'm calling on the U.S. Army."
That's Wyclef Jean making that statement a little while ago. He's tweeted that, and we wanted to share that with you. We think it's relevant, we think it's important, and we think it's newsworthy.
Aretha Franklin set the standard for singing about "Respect," but our "Most Intriguing Person of the Day" is taking a concept to the whole new level. And here's what's important -- a whole new generation.
He was a foot soldier in the civil rights movement, even has pictures of himself with the Reverend Martin Luther King Jr. hanging on his wall. He's now 63 years old. Who do you think we're talking about? His biggest claim to fame is now a viral hit. It's a little diddy that he wrote watching a grownup man walking down the street, baby in his arms, pants hanging low, underwear hanging out.
Have you got the picture? Have you guessed?
Pull up your pants, grab a chair, call your kids into the room, and get ready to watch the biggest pop culture hit since -- well, since William Hung.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GENERAL LARRY, "AMERICAN IDOL" (singing): Pants on the ground, pants on the ground, looking like a fool with your pants on the ground, with the gold in your mouth, hat turned sideways. Pants hit the ground.
You call yourself a cool cat looking like a fool, walking downtown with your pants on the ground. Giddy up. Hey, get your pants off the ground.
Looking like a fool, talking with your pants on the ground. Hey, get your pants off the ground! Looking like a fool with your pants on the ground
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: "Looking like a fool with your pants on the ground." That song, which is really, by the way, about respecting yourself, respecting your community, is why Larry Platt of Atlanta, Georgia, we're proud to say, is our "Most Intriguing Person of the Day."
And you know that he's an intriguing person. Why? We'll tell you.
Two more intriguing people. How about Congressman Anthony Weiner.
The stuff that he's been saying and the knowledge that he's had about this controversy with health care has been very well demonstrated many times on this newscast and others. And then there's Ron Paul -- look up, Congressman. We've got you on TV.
REP. RON PAUL (R), TEXAS: Hi.
SANCHEZ: There he is. He's joining us next.
Stay there.
Both of them, when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: All right. Joining me now are two congressmen who have had some of the most colorful quotes, to say the very least, on this story so far, Republican Ron Paul of Texas, Democrat Anthony Weiner of New York.
My thanks to both of you.
I've been trying to figure out what happened last night in Massachusetts, just like both of you have. And I'm wondering whether this really was a repudiation of Democrats and an embracing of Republicans.
Ron Paul, I want to ask you first, Congressman.
First of all, do you see yourself as a Republican or more as a Libertarian? I've never been able to figure you out.
PAUL: Yes. I think both.
(LAUGHTER)
PAUL: I mean, you're allowed to be a conservative Republican. You're allowed to be a liberal Republican. Why can't you just be a Libertarian? Libertarian just means you're a constitutionalist.
SANCHEZ: I'm not taking anything away from you. I'm just thinking that you are in a unique position to try and define for us whether these folks in Massachusetts last night were saying, look, we don't care, we don't like either of you, and we're tired of the same old stuff, and we'll vote you out no matter who you, or they were really saying they don't like Barack Obama, as the Republicans are telling us today that they are?
What's your take?
PAUL: Right. Well, my take is that I'm apolitical, and I think right now that's very popular to people that say they're Independent.
I've never thought a whole lot of the political parties, so some of my legislation gets as much support from the Democrats as they do the Republicans. So, no, I think the issue is whether you're right or wrong, and I happen to believe strongly in transparency and privacy, and a lot of liberal Democrats will support me on that, and they will on foreign policy as well.
SANCHEZ: What are Democrats like Anthony Weiner wrong about that cost them Massachusetts last night? What are the Democrats wrong about right now? What's Obama wrong about?
PAUL: Well, I don't know whether I would use the word "wrong," but I think where they're missing it is that what the people are upset about is that the government no longer can function because it fails. They're incapable of doing this. They take on too much.
It isn't who's going to manage the right way or the wrong way. It's just that it's unmanageable.
It's sort of like directing traffic for every single person in the country. It doesn't work.
Markets work better than government. Government bureaucrats and politicians tend to be political, and they tend to mess things up, and prices go up, they become inefficient. So the process is wrong.
I happen to believe in the marketplace that they're more capable. I'd like to see people at least consider delivering medical care like we deliver cell phones. Prices go down and qualities go up. But, no, when the government does it, the opposite happens.
SANCHEZ: All right, Anthony Weiner. You heard that. That's an interesting analysis he provided you with, giving you perhaps some information you can use as a Democrat.
What's your take?
REP. ANTHONY WEINER (D), NEW YORK: Well, the only problem with that is if you look at the places that government has entered, we've actually done, in many cases, a better job than the private sector. If you ask people whether they like Medicare, 96 percent of people on it say they like it. It has an overhead rate of one percent compared to the private sector, which has an overhead of about 30 percent. And when it comes to containing costs, actually, we've done a better job on Medicare despite the fact they are all senior citizens.
Look, the problems the Democrats have had recently, we've kind of gotten away from the things that we know work and that people like. You know, we've made compromises to get rid of the public option, and that would have been competition, more choice, going in the direction that Congressman Paul wants to go to.
We jettison that on the altar of getting 60 votes from our senators, and we forgot that the American people are pretty smart. They watch these things and they say, what is it exactly that the Democrat health care plan is supposed to be about, if not something like the public option or expanding Medicare. So that, I think, is the mistake we've made.
You know, Congressman Paul is one of the rare, truly consistent guys in Congress, and we all respect him for that. I mean, sometimes, I'm not sure he's in touch with the mother ship on some of the things he proposes, but he's always consistent. But in this case, he just happens to have it wrong.
(LAUGHTER)
SANCHEZ: Go ahead, Congressman Paul. Your turn.
PAUL: OK. On Medicare, yes, some people are satisfied with Medicare. But what he failed to say is it's bankrupt.
The end stages are there. You just can't whack away like they proposed taking away some of the Medicare benefits.
Take the housing. You can say public housing is great. Everybody gets a wonderful house, we make interest rates low, we give them no down payments. Everyone's happy until they lose their house and we bail out Wall Street and the big banks. It's a failed system.
SANCHEZ: Congressman Paul, you don't want government in anything? PAUL: Yes, I do. I want them to play an important role. They should be enforcing contracts. They should -- you know, we're in charge at the federal level on bankruptcy, for instance.
SANCHEZ: But not in health care. You don't...
(CROSSTALK)
PAUL: But we don't allow people to go bankrupt. We can bail them out -- we bailed them out from the money from the people who were successful.
SANCHEZ: That's a good point.
PAUL: So we had everything turned upside down.
SANCHEZ: That's a good point, sir.
Anyway, Anthony Weiner, how do you argue with the fact that we try and manage too much, which is his principal point?
WEINER: Well, perhaps that's right, but I've got to tell you, you know, the schizophrenia of my Republican friends when it comes to Medicare, they believe it's terrible that you have government-run health care except for this health care plan which covers about 45 percent of the American population. They don't like health care, but when you try to get some waste out of Medicare, they scream.
Look, the fact of the matter is you can't just simply say government is good or bad. There are some things we do well and some things we don't do as well.
SANCHEZ: Yes.
WEINER: But health care is a case that we know the free market is never going to be the way you solve every problem because they're never going to cover sick people.
SANCHEZ: We're going to have to leave it there, gentlemen.
Congressman Ron Paul, Congressman Anthony Weiner, you guys are great.
PAUL: Up until 65 they did.
SANCHEZ: Thank you both. There you go. That's Ron Paul getting the last shot in.
We appreciate it. Good for both of you.
Oh, so we told you Amy Winehouse came in at a whopping number two on today's "List That U Don't Want 2 Be On," right? Well, we've given you enough time. Have you figured out yet who should be the one person who is on the worst list we provide?
Who is on the today's "List That U Don't Want 2 Be On?" Who's number one? That's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Welcome back. I am now ready to reveal who tops "The List That U Don't Want 2 Be On."
Let's recap, first of all.
Paul Chambers tweeted his travel frustrations, used some ill-advised language. And British police came to his door.
Watch the tongue-in-cheek stuff, Paul (ph). Authorities have no sense of humor when you or me or anybody else jokes about blowing up an airport for fear of missing a vacation.
Next, Amy Winehouse. She pleads guilty to a drunken assault, gets a couple of years probation. Her representative say that she's cleaning up her act and they know that she seems to be always in trouble.
Hope so, but until then, she stays on the list.
Our list-topper, though, today, number one, has schooled us on the most effective way to lose a race for the United States Senate. We're calling her out, former Massachusetts Senate candidate Martha Coakley.
Her campaign train derailed, and derailed hard last night. But don't take our word for it.
Even the White House told us that they were pessimistic about her. They told our senior White House correspondent, Ed Henry, that candidates matter as much as campaigns.
Are you reading between the lines there?
Well, here's what else may have hurt her. She put some distance between herself and voters when she took a pass on a meet and greet at Fenway park, saying it was too cold. Didn't exactly endear her to the throngs of people who didn't think it was too cold, including her opponent.
And then -- and then this...
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
DAN REA, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: Yes, but now Scott Brown is Curt Schilling, OK?
MARTHA COAKLEY (D), FMR. MASSACHUSETTS SENATE CANDIDATE: And another Yankee fan.
REA: Schilling?
COAKLEY: Yes.
REA: Curt Schilling a Yankee fan? COAKLEY: No. All right. I'm wrong on my...
REA: The Red Sox great pitcher of the bloody Sox?
COAKLEY: Well, he's not there anymore.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
SCHULTZ: "He's not there anymore."
Ouch. Calling Curt Schilling a Yankee fan in Boston a big deal. Not to most of us, right? But to Bostonians? Yes.
In fact, if this list was the most poorly-run Senate campaigns, our staff probably would think that she might be a candidate for that as well.
But for now, Martha Coakley wins one thing, the top spot on "The List That U Don't Want 2 Be On."
Wolf Blitzer, standing by with more, now, in THE SITUATION ROOM.
Wolf?
