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Rick's List
More AIG Outrage; Tea Party Mobilizing; Toyota Troubles Accelerating
Aired February 03, 2010 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
RICK SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR: Time now for "List That You Don't Want To Be On," with a definite political thread that's running through this one today.
Third on the list, South Carolina Governor and first lady Jenny Sanford. This picture is from happier times. It was back in 2006. Why both on the list today? Well, maybe for failing to see the red flags in their marriage back in 1989. She says that he insisted on removing all references to being faithful out of their wedding vows.
Jenny Sanford writes about it in her memoir. This is what she told an interviewer about her husband's wedding vow omission: "It bothered me to some extent, but we were very young. We were in love. I questioned it, but I got past it, along with other doubts that I had."
Jenny Sanford writes in her book that she felt gut-punched, unwanted, embarrassed by the governor's affairs. Mark Sanford says he is looking forward to reading it for his part.
Moving on, spot two on this "List That You Don't Want To Be On," it goes to Congresswoman Michele Bachmann. The Minnesota Republican speaking before a group of citizens, she said this: "In Japan, people have stopped voicing their opinion on health care. There are things that are wrong with Japanese health care, but people are afraid of voicing, well, because they know that they would get them on a list and then they wouldn't get any health care."
That's what she said in a speech. Wow. Really? That happens in Japan. If people complain, then they're put on a list and they're not allowed to get health care? What's her source on that? Don't you wonder? Some guy. No, really, some guy.
She says "a fellow who ran into me in the hall" in Washington, D.C., told her the Japan story, and she repeated it in a formal speech, and uses it as a shocking anecdote to illustrate a possible American future of so-called gangster government and absolute corruption when it comes to health care -- a guy in the hallway.
By the way, we checked and we found out that there's no credible evidence whatsoever of what Bachmann's friend in the hallway said about the Japanese health care system. Michele Bachmann finds herself on that the "List You Don't Want To Be On."
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) SANCHEZ (voice-over): Here's what's on THE LIST.
Not good enough.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think Barack Obama is anti-American.
SANCHEZ: What started as a protest against higher taxes morphs into a fired-up middle class movement. But now what? I will talk to the man behind this weekend's national Tea Party Convention. Who are they? What do they stand for?
AIG, $100 million in bonuses paid with your money. Are you mad, jealous, or both?
And this driver just keeps going and going. Why was he running?
The lists you need to know about. Who's "Today's Most Intriguing Person"? Who's on "List You Don't Want To Be On"? You will find out as our national conversation on Twitter, on the air continues.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ: Welcome back. I'm Rick Sanchez, 4:00 time.
These guys helped bring our financial system to the brink of collapse. And they got a major bailout from us, from the taxpayers. Oh, and, by the way, they haven't paid all of it back yet. Now AIG is doling out $100 million in bonuses to some of the people that got us into the mess. Even the White House pay czar says it's outrageous.
Chief business correspondent Ali Velshi is joining me now.
Hi, Ali.
ALI VELSHI, CNN CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: This has been outrageous since day one.
Remember, AIG was a healthy, profitable, good company. And there was a unit, the financial products unit, that was behind these credit default swaps, which really were at the center of the economic collapse.
SANCHEZ: Correct.
VELSHI: And when that started coming apart, it was such a highly specialized unit, that AIG cut a deal with the people who worked there to stay on to help them unwind the unit, and they got retention bonuses worth $435 million.
SANCHEZ: And...
(CROSSTALK)
VELSHI: So, today's payout yes.
SANCHEZ: ... just for the record... VELSHI: Yes.
SANCHEZ: ... just let me interrupt you...
VELSHI: Yes.
SANCHEZ: ... just in case our viewers don't know. The credit default swap scheme that you just described is highly unethical.
VELSHI: Well, it was an unregulated -- it can work. They weren't doing it the right way.
So, these guys get paid a bonus. They got their second installment of the bonus today.
SANCHEZ: Right.
VELSHI: We knew it was coming. It's all part of the $435 million, because the government couldn't do anything about it. These were airtight legal retention bonuses, legal, but outrageous.
SANCHEZ: But is there any reason why I, as an American, should not be mad as hell, Ali?
VELSHI: None that I can give you. You should be mad as hell. It's remarkable.
The concern was, if these people don't get retention bonuses, they will go elsewhere. Where do you go to make this kind of money, Rick? Are you going to become a professional baseball player or a basketball player or a rock star?
SANCHEZ: Well, I'm Cuban.
VELSHI: Well, they did say they're -- that's true.
(LAUGHTER)
SANCHEZ: I can hit a baseball.
VELSHI: They did say the point is, they needed these people who knew this intricate system in order to unwind it. But to pay these kinds of bonuses. They asked these people to give some of it back. About 95 percent agreed to some giveback, so they feel that they have given back some $20 million.
SANCHEZ: Well, there's two points to this story that I understand, and maybe you could help take us through it. A, the contract these guys signed was signed, I believe, in like 19 -- what is it?
(CROSSTALK)
VELSHI: It was signed before the financial collapse.
(CROSSTALK) SANCHEZ: ... '07 or something like that, right?
VELSHI: When AIG started to collapse, but the rest of the world hadn't.
SANCHEZ: So, they're arguing, look, this is a deal I had...
VELSHI: Right.
SANCHEZ: ... before I got the deal with you.
VELSHI: Correct.
SANCHEZ: The problem is, the deal they have with me and you and everybody else...
VELSHI: Right.
SANCHEZ: ... out here who is a taxpayer is...
VELSHI: Yes.
SANCHEZ: ... you got my money to save your butt.
VELSHI: It's all changed. So, if they were a bank, for instance, there's no retention bonuses that holds beyond the fact that the FDIC takes over a bank. When the FDIC takes over a bank, they can keep you or they can fire you.
SANCHEZ: Well, can I ask you another question?
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: I'm going to -- I'm just going to interrupt, because I'm curious.
VELSHI: Yes.
SANCHEZ: And maybe I just don't know these things. And I'm thinking maybe if I don't know...
VELSHI: No, I don't think most people do.
SANCHEZ: ... a lot of folks don't know.
VELSHI: Yes.
SANCHEZ: Why are these guys paid in bonuses? Why don't they just have a salary, like you and me?
VELSHI: Well, they try and get them to perform better by putting these bonuses in place. But these bonuses at AIG are particularly for saying with the company. They are retention bonuses, not performance bonuses.
These are bonuses that prevent you from going over to a competitor. I agree. In our business, they just pay us money and hope that we -- we do that.
SANCHEZ: Right.
VELSHI: And you got contracts. In their business, they -- they give you these bonuses so that they don't go over to a competitor if you're thought of as highly valuable.
Look, the concept isn't all that ridiculous.
SANCHEZ: Well, how much -- by the way, just one -- one other question I'm thinking. Are they giving -- they're giving some of this back, right? I hope they are.
VELSHI: Ninety-five percent of the people receiving it have given back some of what they were going to receive.
SANCHEZ: Some.
VELSHI: They have agreed to a smaller payout. Five percent have not, and they have all got legal advice saying, why do I have to give anything back?
SANCHEZ: Ah, look...
(CROSSTALK)
VELSHI: The law says, this is mine.
SANCHEZ: It just seems terribly unfair that we saved their butts...
VELSHI: It does seem very unfair.
SANCHEZ: ... and now they're making money while the rest of Americans are still suffering.
Let me ask you about Toyota before I let you go.
VELSHI: Yes.
SANCHEZ: How serious a problem is this going to be for the company? I know we saw some dwindling of their stock today.
VELSHI: Yes.
SANCHEZ: How far did it go? Is this going to continue?
VELSHI: Well...
SANCHEZ: Is the fix going to work? And can they continue to fight?
You know, here's Toyota. I know most of these cars are made here in the United States, but it's a Japanese company.
VELSHI: Sure. SANCHEZ: At some point, they're going to say, why are American politicians downgrading our product? Is it because they want their product on top?
VELSHI: Well, the thing about the stock market, though, is, it's a bet on how you are going to do. Investors are betting against it right now. They have taken Toyota down quite a bit. If they decide that this is going to work out fine and Toyota will get over it, you will see that stock price going up.
So, at the moment, people are still cautious about it.
There's nobody who believe this is the end of Toyota.
(MUSIC)
VELSHI: It's just going to be a big rough patch for you.
But thank you for that little musical interlude to emphasize what I was saying.
SANCHEZ: It sounded like we were introducing a centurion or something...
VELSHI: That's right.
SANCHEZ: ... like a gladiator.
VELSHI: Want do that every time I'm on? I will come on every day if...
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: If I can just bring that kind of, well, good information. We will wait and see what happens.
VELSHI: Well, look, Toyota is going to be a -- the big story for probably the next few days, maybe a couple weeks. If they get it right, it will stop being a story.
SANCHEZ: Would you be surprised if, tomorrow, a Japanese official comes out and say, I don't like what's going on in the United States?
VELSHI: No. No. And I think they could solve that, though, if they do bring somebody out.
SANCHEZ: Really?
VELSHI: Yes.
SANCHEZ: Expect...
(CROSSTALK)
VELSHI: I think people know we are fully on top of this, and we know for sure you're safe, and this is how we're going to deal with it.
SANCHEZ: Ali Velshi, none better. Thank you. Appreciate it.
VELSHI: Good to see you, buddy.
SANCHEZ: Welcome back.
VELSHI: Thank you.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think Barack Obama is anti-American.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: They are mad at the president, ticked off at AIG, and hating big bailouts. Now the tea party movement has mobilized for its first national convention. Are they meeting as a united front? We are going to dig deeper into the movement and its high-profile supporters that you probably know some of.
And Toyota's problems are accelerating, thanks to mixed signals from the secretary of transportation. What a day it's been for Toyota. If you haven't heard about this story or about possibly your car, stick around. We have got more information. We have been digging into the story ever since it happened -- the surprising testimony on Capitol Hill this morning. Answers your way.
Stay there. THE LIST scrolls on.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
CALLER: Hey, Rick. This is Myer (ph) from Flint, Michigan.
So, the bonuses, yes, they are a problem, and we're all fed up with it. There will be a public outcry, and maybe the government will bemoan it, do some statement later on this afternoon. But, honestly, this is ostensibly the end of the bonuses that are supposed to be released. And, hopefully, it is, because, at this point, I'm sure the taxpayers want their money back.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Welcome back to the world headquarters of CNN. I'm Rick Sanchez. This is THE LIST. I'm your host.
Frustration caused by AIG, confusion caused by the Toyota situation. People are trying to figure out how serious the accelerator problem is for Toyota. And, today, Ray LaHood, the transportation secretary, came out and essentially suggested to Americans that maybe their cars are not safe.
That set back the company and the cause somewhat. I want to take you now to somebody who is feeling the brunt of this. He is Bob Bayer. He's the guy in charge of Toyota of McDonough. It's a municipality about a half-hour south of Atlanta. And he's going to take us through what believes either should be done or is going on.
Let's start with what is happening today.
If so -- how are you feeling the brunt of Transportation Secretary LaHood's comments and the subsequent comments that have come out from Toyota?
BOB BAYER, OWNER, TOYOTA OF MCDONOUGH: Well, his comments came out this morning. I got news of them around 10:00, about the same time that our -- the parts came in from Toyota, overnight delivery.
And, so, we started fixing cars this morning. And any calls we received today, we have been scheduling appointments and taking care of the customers 100 percent of the time.
SANCHEZ: Did you not -- when you heard that he had said that, did you not do this? "No!"
BAYER: It certainly bothered me a little bit.
(LAUGHTER)
BAYER: And I was glad to see that he retracted his comments fairly quickly, but, yes, it was a little bit of a concern this morning.
SANCHEZ: Mr. Bayer, you are unflappable, sir.
How about your company? How about Toyota? I mean, do you feel they have been up-front enough with their comments and their actions and the way they have handled this?
BAYER: I believe so.
As soon as we found out that there was a problem a week ago Friday, they went to the safety board, got the fix approved, took an ad out in the papers on Sunday, and -- and started shipping parts. And we received parts in the training today to fix the vehicles.
SANCHEZ: Are you convinced this fix really is a fix?
BAYER: I am, as a Toyota dealer, 100 percent convinced it is. I drive a Toyota Avalon, an affected vehicle. I have never experienced a problem with it. And I believe that -- that this will take care of it, and Toyota is going to come back as a stronger company when this is taken care of.
SANCHEZ: I try to get you, but you're good. We appreciate it, Mr. Bayer, for taking time. Good luck, sir.
BAYER: Thank you very much. I appreciate your time.
Michael Jackson's doctor is reportedly ready to turn himself into police. When? Not sure, but that's him right there. That's Conrad Murray's lawyer, saying that his client is more, more than ready now to surrender on any charges relating to the singer's death. You remember that Dr. Murray told investigators that he gave Jackson various drugs to help him sleep on the day that he died last June.
One of those drugs was the powerful sedative propofol -- propofol. The Los Angeles County coroner ruled Jackson's death a homicide resulting from a combination of drugs, mainly propofol and lorazepam. Both of those are drugs that you don't usually just take in pill form. In fact, you need to have a doctor there with you, and they're usually only used when you're getting ready to go under, to be operated on.
It is strange, and it may result in charges. And we're watching it for you, and we will keep you developed -- keep you informed of any developments.
And we're also going to follow this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The problem here you've got is an institution that increasingly is not adapted to the demands of a hugely competitive 21st century economy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: All right, that's just part of the president's message to fellow Democrats today. He also criticized some GOP ideas, but did he miss a chance to give his party a little tough love? We're going to get into that with Wolf Blitzer in our next half-hour.
Also, if you're a Wicca or a Drude -- or a Druid, right, Druid, or a follower of other less traditional faiths, there's a place for you near the Air Force Academy, because of some person we're going to show you. Who is he? Just one of our most intriguing people.
Stay right there.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Welcome back to the world headquarters of CNN. I'm Rick Sanchez. This is THE LIST.
Is there a new religion out there that most of us haven't heard of? Time for today's most intriguing.
He runs the Air Force Academy's astronautics labs in Colorado Springs. He also helped turn this double circle of stones into an outdoor chapel for Druids, Wiccans, and followers of other earth- centered religions. He calls it a freedom ring.
Our most intriguing person of the day is Tech Sergeant Brandon Longcrier, who says about half-a-dozen academy cadets are now devout believers, and many more are catching on. Longcrier describes himself as a pagan. This is him use white sage to consecrate the circle during the winter solstice. Tech Sergeant Brandon Longcrier, intriguing? To say the very least.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JIM ACOSTA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Do you think having the president dressed up as the Grim Reaper is a little over the top?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, I do not.
ACOSTA: You think it's appropriate?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There's nothing disrespectful about this.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Not disrespectful.
While you mull that over, consider this. The tea party is getting up for a huge convention this week. Who is in charge? And is it really a grassroots movement, still? That's what many in the party are asking. That's next.
Also, in our next half-hour, the convention organizer answers our question.
Stay with us. We will be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Welcome back. I'm Rick Sanchez.
Democracy is messy, right? Just ask some of the folks behind the tea party movement on the eve of their first convention. I'm going to talk to one of the organizers in just a little bit.
But, first, I want you to watch this. This is Jim Acosta filling us in on, well, some of the finger-pointing that's going on now among tea party members.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED PROTESTERS: Kill the bill! Kill the bill!
JIM ACOSTA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Take recession- raging conservatives and independents --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think Barack Obama's anti-American.
ACOSTA: Add a Democrat to the White House.
ACOSTA (on camera): You think having the president dressed up as the grim reaper is a little over the top?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, I do not. There's nothing disrespectful about this. ACOSTA (voice-over): And you get the tea party.
There's more brewing in this rebellion against bailouts and big governments than just Scott Brown's tea-party infused upset in the Massachusetts Senate race.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is a major victory in what I could call "the second American revolution."
ACOSTA: Mark Meckler and Jenny Beth Martin, founders of the Tea Party Patriots, want this movement to blow the lid off Capitol Hill in this year's elections. They plan to back candidates who stand for tea party principles, and it doesn't matter if it's Republicans or Democrats standing in the way.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think if it had been John McCain, the same thing would have happened. I truly believe that.
ACOSTA (on camera): Really?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I really do.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I do, too.
ACOSTA (voice-over): In one year the tea party has gone viral, from dozens to now hundreds of loosely linked groups around the country. But Meckler and Martin don't tell them what to do. That's not the tea party way.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is all bottom-up. The real deal is that there are millions of leaders out there leading this movement.
ACOSTA: There may be leaders in the tea party movement, but nobody's in charge. In fact, rival groups from Washington, D.C. to Sacramento, California, are battling over who will carry the tea party banner. And that fight has some tea partiers feeling hung over.
ACOSTA (on camera): What do you think is happening to the tea party?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't think the tea party knows what's happening to the tea party.
ACOSTA (voice-over): Sacramento tea party activist Jim Knapp fears the movement is about to be hijacked by one of the establish parties.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't think there is any question that the GOP has their tentacles into the tea party.
ACOSTA: Knapp points to the Tea Party Express, the conservative bus tour that crisscrossed the country last year. It's run right inside a Republican political consulting firm. To the right, Sal Russo runs the firm, to the left, Joe Wierzbicki runs the Tea Party Express is run. Their offices are side by side. ACOSTA (on camera): Do you think a lot of those tea party activists know that the Tea Party Express is based in an office that's run by Republican political consultants?
JOE WIERZBICKI, TEA PARTY EXPRESS: I think what you'll find is at tea party rallies a lot of those people who are mad at the Republican Party, many of those are Republicans themselves, us included.
ACOSTA: You're Republicans?
WIERZBICKI: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And that's why we at the Tea Party Express endorse Scott Brown.
ACOSTA (voice-over): After spending $350,000 to air pro-Scott Brown campaign ads, these Republican consultants argue the tea party's home is the GOP.
WIERZBICKI: The people who form this movement need a major political party.
ACOSTA: The movement's future is on the agenda at the tea party's first convention set for this week. But even with tea party favorite Sarah Palin headlining the convention, it's being boycotted by some tea party activists, scoffing at the $550 admission fee.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It wasn't the kind of grassroots organization that we are, so we declined to participate.
ACOSTA: Despite all that in-fighting, it's clear that the tea party is on a roll. Where it rolls is anybody's guess.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ: So, who are they? What do they do? Where are they now? How good is this as an organization? How well does it represent Americans?
Judson Phillips is the guy behind the Tea Party Convention that begins tomorrow in Nashville. I have asked him to come and take us through this organization, where it is right now. And he's going to be joining me in about, oh, 15 to 20 minutes. So, stick around. This should be good.
Coming up, another hearing for some Americans that are detained in Haiti. Starting to look a little better. Their plans to take young children out of the country, in some cases away from the parents, came under fire. There's new information, what's next in their efforts to get out of jail and continue their mission. Brooke Baldwin is going to be here with some of those details.
Up next, though, the perp who wouldn't let a run-in with police, or, in this case, with a police car slow him down.
(LAUGHTER)
SANCHEZ: Ouch. That had to hurt. We will be right back. I'm Rick Sanchez.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: The Energizer Bunny may have finally met his match.
(LAUGHTER)
SANCHEZ: Let's do "Fotos."
Sometimes there's nothing like great video. This is California. An alleged robber is sprinting his ways through an obstacle course of police.
He blows past one officer, falls, gets up, keeps going. Police try to block his path with a cruiser, and that doesn't stop him still.
BALDWIN: Oh!
SANCHEZ: So he just keeping getting hit and jumping over them. He gets up and keeps going, and then he does it again.
So what finally stopped this guy? What's the one thing he couldn't get away from?
What do you think?
BALDWIN: A dog?
SANCHEZ: You got it.
BALDWIN: Yes.
SANCHEZ: That's right, tracking dogs finally cornered him in a parking garage.
Down goes Frazier (ph)!
Next, England. It's a race for survival, a race so dangerous, competitors have to sign a death disclaimer before signing up.
To win, these daredevils must literally jump through fire, climb through barbed wire, and wade through icy water. Yes, that sounds like fun.
BALDWIN: That's what I was about to say. That's fun?
SANCHEZ: Talk about a brain freeze.
So, what do a rat, two turtles, and some worms have to do with outer space? It sounds like the beginning of a bad joke, if only these animals could be so lucky.
Iran strapped them to their newest rocket and launched them into the cosmos. They'll now join the ranks with each other species who have been sent into space. Just to name a few, the Madagascar hissing cockroaches, the Mexican jumping beans, and South African flat rock scorpions.
BALDWIN: Do they expect them to report back?
SANCHEZ: Just to name a few.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What's the situation?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Can you imagine Americans in prison in Haiti? The latest on the efforts to free these 10 Americans that are being held there, accused of trying to take young earthquake victims out of the country.
And for our "Most Intriguing" list today, we find ourselves with a bit of a situation.
THE LIST scrolls on. Stick around for the ride.
We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Welcome back. I'm Rick Sanchez.
Got Brooke Baldwin with me. We're about to do a segment on Haiti, but since we're doing something on Haiti, I want to point something out to your attention.
Let's do a Twitter bulletin if we can.
You see right there on that big board, that tweet that just came in from the Red Cross. It says, "To date, Red Cross distributions of food and relief items have reached nearly 20,000 families, or 100,000 people."
You know, that's not that much.
BALDWIN: It doesn't seem like a lot. It makes you wonder how much they have given overall. You know what I mean?
SANCHEZ: It just doesn't seem like a lot considering they've been there at three weeks, and with all the money they've got. Twenty thousand families in a country of millions? Maybe.
I don't know. We should check on that. I'm curious.
Let's talk about Haiti.
A group of Americans are in big trouble down there today. They are in a jail, not charged yet, but they're all accused of trying to sneak some Haitian kids out of the country and into the Dominican Republic.
Brooke Baldwin, as I said, is joining us with this.
First of all, what a horrible situation, because one can't help but think that their intentions, even if they screwed it up in terms of paperwork, was noble.
BALDWIN: That is the word that the judge is really trying to get to the bottom of, intentions. And the final five of these 10 American Baptist missionaries went and sat in front of this judge -- this is so preliminary. This was just day two of this preliminary hearing.
And the judge is trying to get to the very bottom of that. What was their intention in taking these 33 babies, children, trying to get them to the Dominica Republic, as they claim, to an orphanage?
And Karl Penhaul, one of our correspondents down there, he's been all over this story. And he actually spoke with some of the missionaries trying to get at that very question, what was your intention?
Here's what one of the missionaries told Karl.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LAURA SILSBY, U.S. BAPTIST TEAM LEADER: What we've done essentially is we leased a hotel in the Dominican Republic and converted it into an orphanage. It's a 45-room hotel in Cabarete, and to be able to provide a nice place for these children to live.
Our longer-term plans was for a school and a long-term facility in Magante. But to start, we really just wanted to reach out to the children that needed us most.
We have not been focused on the orphanages that have potential for humanitarian parole but, rather, the native-run organizations that really aren't getting as much support and as much help. And the children that are literally left with no one, we have had our hearts broken over the last few days as we have met and cared for child after child who's lost their parents and are grieving.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: At its essence, what is it they could have or possibly did possibly do wrong? Because when you look at this, you figure they went there, children were suffering, and maybe they took them and wanted to go and help them.
What did they do wrong?
BALDWIN: They're accused wrong of essentially kidnapping or child trafficking.
SANCHEZ: Trafficking?
BALDWIN: Trafficking. In fact, we learned that this group did meet with the Dominican Republic consul, and the consul gave them this stark warning, saying, hey, if you do not have the proper paperwork, which they have since acknowledged that they did not -- and they also did not talk to any members of the Haitian government before trying to take these kids out of Haiti. They didn't do that.
SANCHEZ: But trafficking is...
BALDWIN: As a result, he said, do not cross over, you will be facing child trafficking charges.
SANCHEZ: Really? But that is such a strong word. I mean, the intent with trafficking is to somehow make money, to sell. They weren't going to sell these children.
BALDWIN: And again, we have to prove intent. And it's so important, also, to point out that there's another piece of this story. And that's also the fact that they have been talking to this Haitian police officer because, again, they hadn't talked to the Haitian government. They had been talking to this Haitian police officer who worked for the Dominican Republic consulate and apparently held several unofficial meetings with this individual who was helping facilitate getting these 33 babies and children to the Dominican Republic.
We don't know yet if this cop was corrupt, we don't know if money was exchanged, because they're two big questions you know Karl Penhaul is trying to get to the bottom of.
SANCHEZ: Did the parents of these children's know that they were being possibly taken out of the country?
BALDWIN: Yes. In fact, we spoke with one of the parents.
Some of them, I think, were in fact orphans. Some, these parents -- and that's the other part of this story, that the extreme conditions after this earthquake that so many of these parents are having to deal with, Karl spoke with this one father. He works on computers, makes $1 a day, and said, look, I think my child will be better off in America...
SANCHEZ: So he actually was OK with it? Yes.
BALDWIN: He did. In fact, we have a sound bite from this father. Listen.
SANCHEZ: Can we do that? Let's do it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LELLY LAURENTUS, GAVE CHILDREN TO AMERICANS (through translator): I put them on the bus with the Americans with my own hands. I played with them up until the last minute, then I kissed them both good-bye and told them, "Don't forget daddy."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Wow. That's heartbreaking, but it's very telling.
BALDWIN: It is telling.
SANCHEZ: I mean, I can just see a future case where that father's on the witness stand saying, yes, I want...
BALDWIN: Willingly.
SANCHEZ: Right. Good luck trying to...
(CROSSTALK)
BALDWIN: Going to a tribunal judge next.
SANCHEZ: Good stuff.
BALDWIN: Thanks.
SANCHEZ: It's a complicated case, but it's a heartwarming story as well.
BALDWIN: It is. It is.
SANCHEZ: All right. We're also going to talk about Sarah Palin.
She's going to be there. So will Americans mad at big government and Wall Street greed. We're talking about the Tea Party Convention.
What is a Tea Party convention? It's a controversy, that's what it is.
An interview with the man who's organized the event. He's going to be joining us in just a bit.
It's all right to smile. Go ahead. You're on TV.
Later, he's not giving "The Boss," Bruce Springsteen a run for his money, but he is making quite a name for himself in New Jersey.
We're going to tell you what he's doing to get on to our "Most Intriguing" list.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Welcome back. I'm Rick Sanchez.
These are our studios. And it's hard to believe -- you know, it's hard to believe that the Tea Party movement isn't even a years old, as we look at a tweet from Eric Cantor.
He says, "I don't think the president's plan to raise taxes will get our economy back on track."
What do you think?
Eric Canto, as you know, often has been on our show, and he tweets us almost daily.
Back to the Tea Party movement.
Remember the spark that lit the fire? What was that?
Here it is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How many of you people want to pay for your neighbor's mortgage that has an extra bathroom and can't pay their bills? Raise their hand.
(BOOING)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: President Obama, are you listening?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: There has been, no doubt, a lot of demagoguery and a lot of rhetoric on the issue of Tea Parties. But at its core, it is about Americans who are fed up about the fact that politicians keep wanting to stick their hands in their pockets.
That's what Judson Phillips will tell you. He's from Nashville. He's the organizer of the first Tea Party Convention, and he's good enough to join us now.
I didn't know you couldn't hear me last time. I was telling you to smile.
Are you there? Can you hear me now? Are you good?
JUDSON PHILLIPS, FOUNDER, TEA PARTY NATION, INC.: I can hear you now. And I won't do what I told your producer I was going to do, which was simply move my lips, act like I was talking, and everyone at CNN would have a heart attack.
(LAUGHTER)
SANCHEZ: Mr. Phillips, thanks so much for joining us.
Can you make us understand what is going on with the Tea Party movement right now? Because it seems that we're hearing that there seems to be some fractionalizing going on.
What is it?
PHILLIPS: Well, sure. I mean, this movement is not a homogenous movement.
You've got people from all across the country. You've got people that have sort of the same goals. We have the same things that we want, but some of us want to go about it in different ways. Some people disagree. Sometimes you just have egos conflicting with one another.
SANCHEZ: Is this a conservative-only movement, where only Republicans need apply, as it sometimes appears -- I'll be honest with you -- when you watch it on TV with the anti-Obama signs, et cetera, et cetera?
PHILLIPS: Well, all people who are involved in the Tea Party movement I think are against Obama, but not all people who are involved in the Tea Party movement are Republicans. Some are, some are not. By and large, I would say most, though not all, would sympathize with the Republican Party, although most, if not all, are fairly angry with the Republican Party the way it is right now.
SANCHEZ: I'm just wondering as I think through the videos that we've seen -- and I want to press you that a little bit -- you know, do you feel if you could do it over again, you would have put an emphasis on stopping people who had signs that talked about Hitler and about killing and blood and all that stuff?
PHILLIPS: Well, I can only tell you my own experience at the rallies I've been involved in and have organized.
The signs at our rallies have not been over the top. There was one at our initial rally that really crossed the line. We asked that individual to leave, and that individual was later identified to us as belonging to a liberal activist group.
So, the only thing I can really comment on is the rallies I've been with, and the signs have not been over the top. I haven't really seen any signs that compared Hitler to Obama, or Obama to Hitler would be the right...
SANCHEZ: What is the driving principle behind the Tea Party movement? Give me one driving principle that could bring all these people together?
PHILLIPS: Well, I don't know if we can say it in terms of something that would bring everybody together. The driving force behind the Tea Party movement right now underlying everything is the fact that government simply will not listen to us. The government, as it is right now, thinks that they are our public masters, not our public servants.
SANCHEZ: But then let me ask you this question, a common question that many perhaps would ask. During the Bush administration, we started a war in Iraq for reasons that are still unknown. We paid for that war by borrowing money from China and other assorted countries, while people who were making money from that war profited from those loans.
I don't know whether what Obama is doing is as bad or worse than that. It's not my place to judge. But many would ask, where were the Tea Parties then?
PHILLIPS: Well, what got the Tea Party movement going is just the absolute sheer magnitude of the spending and what will ultimately come as the tax increases that started with this administration. When the Bush administration was wrapping things up, I think the deficit was something like $160 billion, some number like that. SANCHEZ: No, no. I think I can help you there. And you're not even close -- $1.2 trillion.
PHILLIPS: No, no. That includes all the Obama spending.
SANCHEZ: No, sir. No, sir. No, sir.
No. Wait. Hold on. Let's do this together, and fairly.
George Bush left President Obama a deficit of $1.2 trillion. Fact.
PHILLIPS: And I believe that includes the bills that he would not sign.
SANCHEZ: No, that doesn't include the bills he would not sign. I'm telling you, Obama, in his first year, took it to $1.4 trillion. Mr. Bush left him $1.2 trillion.
And, by the way, Mr. Bush got a surplus from Bill Clinton.
PHILLIPS: Well, I'm not -- well, the Tea Party movement doesn't defend George W. Bush. George W. Bush is not exactly one of my favorite people. There's a whole lot of things that George W. Bush did that I didn't agree with it.
SANCHEZ: Right.
PHILLIPS: But it doesn't matter whether we like Bush, don't like Bush, whatever we think. Bush is not the president now. Obama is. And Obama is the guy who's spending like crazy, and that's what annoys the living daylights out of us.
This country is living off credit cards right now, and if you've ever lived off credit cards, you know sooner or later you've got to start paying them. And we're sitting here going, how on earth are we going to pay them when he is doing all kinds of insane spending? I mean, when we have stimulus projects that are going to zip codes that don't exist...
SANCHEZ: But just for the record -- and this is what I was trying to ask you, because a lot of people ask fairly. And, by the way, everything you're saying about Americans being upset about the hands in their pocket, you are 100 percent dead on, as far as I can tell from people who tweet me every single day, left, right, conservative, green, whatever.
But what you are here to say is it's not a partisan movement? Yes or no? It's not?
PHILLIPS: No, it's not a partisan movement.
SANCHEZ: OK.
PHILLIPS: The Republicans don't own this movement. The Democrats don't own this movement. More people who are in this movement probably identify with Republicans. And it's a little hard to identify with Democrats when the Democratic Party, like the Tennessee Democratic Party put out a rather insulting press released about our group, calling us birthers, conspiracy theorists, lunatics and other things like that.
SANCHEZ: Well, you're right. You're right. Name-calling on either side of this conversation is ever any good. Facts are.
Thank you so much, Mr. Phillips. You're good to join us, sir. We appreciate your time.
PHILLIPS: Hey, thank you so much. I look forward to seeing the CNN crew at the convention.
SANCHEZ: We'll be there.
PHILLIPS: Take care.
SANCHEZ: Thanks so much. Bye-bye.
We'll be right back with the last person on "The List U Don't Want 2 Be On."
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Welcome back. I'm Rick Sanchez.
Time for "Most Intriguing."
This assistant manager of a fitness center road reality TV all the way from Staten Island to the red carpet. His abs are probably more famous than his face. And if you don't know his real name, your kids probably do.
You got this one yet? One of the "Most Intriguing Persons of the Day" is Michael Sorrentino, the guy who calls himself "The Situation" from "Jersey Shore." Sorrentino is getting another 15 minutes of fame. "Jersey Shore" will be back on MTV for a second season, even though an Italian-American group calls it wildly offensive and tried to get it canceled.
And talk about a situation. "The Smoking Gun" says two groups are trying to trademark his nicknames for clothing lines. One is headed by Sorrentino's brother, who wants to put "The Situation" on T- shirts and underwear.
Michael "The Situation" Sorrentino, one of today's "Most Intriguing."
I think Wolf Blitzer ought to sue that guy.
I mean, I thought you had the patent on that, Wolf. I mean, you're "The Situation."
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: So, if he's "The Situation," and he's in "THE SITUATION ROOM," we say, The Situation" is in "THE SITUATION ROOM."
Is that what you're saying?
SANCHEZ: My head's going to explode.
Hey, listen, the president did something today which was interesting. After meeting with the Republicans, he went and met with Democrats today.
And I was having a conversation a little earlier with Jessica, and she told me that it seemed that there may have been some posturing going on, that that meeting may have had as much to do with those Senate Democrats being able to do well in their upcoming elections as anything else.
BLITZER: Six of the eight questions came from senators who have pretty touch reelection campaigns coming up this November. And it was clear that the Senate majority leader, Harry Reid, decided they should have a platform, they should be in the spotlight, they could use some good publicity back home. And this was an opportunity for them to show off a little bit, so I don't think there's any doubt about that.
SANCHEZ: Well, pardon my ignorance, but isn't this supposed to be about real discussion or -- you know, once again, people watching us right now say -- I'm going to read the tweets, I'm sure, as soon as I get off the air -- say, you know, why do they play political games with us? I mean, this should be an important discussion held between our president and our elected officials.
Right?
BLITZER: Right. It should be, but politics goes on all the time. Why should anyone be surprised that politics is happening here in Washington, D.C.? It's within our DNA, I should say.
SANCHEZ: But look, the tone was different, and I think it was somewhat brazen for the president last week to go and sit down with the GOP, go to their retreat, meet them mano a mano, as they say, and take on their questions without the use of a teleprompter. Right?
He scored there, didn't he?
BLITZER: I thought he did very well. I thought the Republicans did well.
I would like to see a lot more of it. I would like to see these opportunities.
And I don't think the president at the Republican event had any indication of what the questions were going to be. He might have been able to guess what the questions might be, but they didn't give him advance word.
Now, when he goes to see the Democrats, I'm not so sure that he was up to speed on what the questions might be, or at least the subjects might be, because this is his own family, the Democrats. They're obviously working together. And once again, on this issue we shouldn't be surprised at all.
SANCHEZ: What do you make of John McCain's position on "Don't Ask, Don't Tell"? He seems to be pretty strident in defending the military's option to keep it as it is, while, really, it appears the rest of the country seems to be going the other way and saying, you know, this is kind of something that's high time we got rid of it?
BLITZER: Even General Colin Powell, who was the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff back in 1993, when the "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" compromise was enacted during the Clinton administration, he, today, released a statement saying he agrees fully with what the defense secretary, Robert Gates, and the chairman of the Joint Chiefs, Admiral Mullen, ,said yesterday. And that flies in the face, obviously, of what McCain is saying. So there seems to be a real disagreement between McCain and Powell on this important issue.
BLITZER: It's a heck of a story.
I always enjoy our conversations, Wolf. Thanks so much for making yourself available to us.
And we're going to be able to join you and see you in just about four minutes in the...
BLITZER: Thank you.
SANCHEZ: ... we'll just call it "The Situation," all right? No "Room."
Up next, who tops "The List U Don't Want 2 Be On"?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Ready to see the top of "The List U Don't Want 2 Be On"? I'm ready. Let's do it.
First, quick reset.
The Sanfords, Governor Mark and first lady, Jenny, her book is out this week. She says the governor took out the "be faithful" part of his wedding vows 20 years ago. She writes she felt gut-punched when she learned of his affair.
Number two, Congresswoman Michele Bachmann. A guy in a hall tells her some information about the Japanese government. That's what her source is for a political speech.
Congresswoman, multiple credible sources, and check them.
OK. Number one, Rahm Emanuel, chief of staff of the White House, met today with the head of Special Olympics to talk about why it's a bad thing to insult someone by calling them retarded.
Emanuel doesn't deny a "Wall Street Journal" report that he called a group of liberal activists "f-ing retarded." The White House says Emanuel did apologize by phone to the Special Olympics, which actively urges people to stop using that word as a derogatory term.
Here's an official statement. "The White House remains committed to addressing the concerns and needs of Americans living with disabilities and recognizes that derogatory remarks demean us all."
Rahm Emanuel, apologetic. Nonetheless, on our "List You Don't Want to Be On."
Here now, "THE SITUATION ROOM" with Wolf Blitzer.
