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Rick's List

Evan Bayh Bowing Out; Biden vs. Cheney; Shooting Takes Place Inside Church During Sunday Service; John McCain facing Tough Primary Challenge

Aired February 15, 2010 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RICK SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): Here's what's making THE LIST --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is a church. You know, to me, it's like they committed a cardinal sin.

SANCHEZ: You're not going to believe who is accused of doing this and why. Oh, and where are they?

This professor accused of killing three colleagues on campus has a past, which includes shooting her own brother and may have tried to kill a Harvard professor. We've sent Brooke Baldwin to Boston to find out more.

What's going on with legacy democrats? Dodd, Kennedy, and now Evan Bayh.

A child is killed by the wrong prescription, 25 times its normal potency. And this is the pharmacist.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I have to (INAUDIBLE). I'm a felon.

SANCHEZ: How common is this?

And talk about making a splash. Little did these Californians know, this is serious.

The lists you need to know about. Who is "Today's Most Intriguing Person"? Who is on "The List You Don't Want To Be On"? You will find out as our national conversation on Twitter, on the air starts right now.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SANCHEZ: Hello again, everybody. I'm Rick Sanchez.

Let me start with this for you. Making THE LIST right now on the national conversation: Three men go into a church in California. They are wearing hoods. They are asked to join in the worship. Instead, they open fire.

And they are still on the loose. We do expect that there will be developments on this story as we proceed over the next couple of hours. So, stay right there. We are going to take you to that story.

But, first, have you heard the latest on this professor from the University of Alabama-Huntsville. It's not enough that she allegedly took a gun to work and killed three colleagues, according to police.

Get this. She also shot and killed her own brother, but was never charged. She also may have tried to kill a Harvard professor as well. What kind of person are we talking about here?

My colleague Brooke Baldwin has traveled to Boston to try and figure this one for us.

Brooke, what are you learning so far?

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Rick, as you said, the story started Friday in Alabama. But because of these two developments over the past few days, this brought us here to Boston.

I want to first start with what has come out most recently. And this goes back to 1993. Now, I confirmed with Dr. Bishop's husband, who lives in Huntsville, Alabama -- that is Jim Anderson -- he told me on the phone today that, yes, they were questioned, both of them, this couple back in 1993. They were questioned as relating to this pipe bomb threat for -- toward one of her colleagues.

This gentlemen was Dr. Paul Rosenberg, who was a professor at Harvard Medical School. Essentially, he came home with his wife from vacation, got his mail and saw some wires, some batteries coming out of a piece of mail. They ran out of the house, called police.

Now, when I talked to the husband, Jim Anderson, on the phone today, here is what he told me. I want to get this right for you. He said -- quote -- "The ATF gathered a dozen subjects. They were never suspects." He was clear in differentiating that, never anyone charged, never anyone arrested.

"Five years later, we got a letter from the ATF: You are in the clear."

Now, you mentioned, Rick, the other incident that's always coming to light here, that relating to the 1986 shooting death of her younger brother. Now, at the time, Amy Bishop was 19 years of age. This happened in their home in suburban Boston in Braintree.

Now, the incident was later ruled an accident.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Yes, go ahead.

SANCHEZ: Here's the thing with that part of this story, Brooke Baldwin, that makes a lot of people shake their heads.

BALDWIN: Yes.

SANCHEZ: I can understand if there's only two people watched something happened, as horrible as it may sound, the possibility that two kids -- I know she was 19, but still young people -- in the backyard playing with the gun, the gun accidentally goes off, and I can see why everyone back then may have looked at this and said, it was probably an accident.

(CROSSTALK)

SANCHEZ: Knowing what we now know about her, the incident in Alabama, and the incident in Harvard, are we starting to look back at this case and say, maybe it wasn't an accident when she shot and killed her brother at point blank?

BALDWIN: I think a number of people, Rick, are looking back at this 1986 incident and asking a number of questions, including the current police chief, Chief Frazier. He's essentially come forward.

And he's saying, you know what? I don't want to use the word cover-up, but he also said I don't know what the thought process was with the police chief at the time.

Apparently, at the time, the police chief, John Polio, had made a call during the whole booking process, after Amy Bishop had been arrested, and they released her. And so there are questions surrounding that release and so now the current chief, Chief Frazier, is saying, hang on. That doesn't make sense, that he would have released her during the booking process. So, that's just one of several questions that people are raising now.

SANCHEZ: Well, there's another question. Now, I have heard -- and maybe if you haven't checked on this yet, because you and I haven't had a chance to talk today. I know you've spoken to Angie and some of the staff here.

BALDWIN: Yes.

SANCHEZ: But I had heard that there's a possibility that her mother had some type of relationship with the police department at the time and may have pulled some strings to make sure that, in fact, that she wasn't charged after shooting her brother. Is there any truth to that?

BALDWIN: So, here's what I know. It is confirmed that her mother at the time of the shooting in 1986 was working with the Braintree police chief. She was serving on the personnel board.

I spent my morning up here in Boston banging on the mother Judy Baker's front door.

SANCHEZ: And?

BALDWIN: She was home. She didn't come to the door. Obviously, we want to hear from her. I did finally manage to get her on the phone, Rick. And through tears, she said, look, we are very distraught. Please, leave us alone.

SANCHEZ: Has this woman ever had any type of psychiatric issues as far as we know?

BALDWIN: None that I'm aware of.

SANCHEZ: None at all? What was her relationship...

BALDWIN: No.

SANCHEZ: ... with the folks there at Harvard? I mean, did they see her as a competent person on the staff? And I also want to know, before I let you go, because I'm curious about this, too. What's her husband's role in all of this? I know that he's tied to the Boston incident, but no other, right?

BALDWIN: I'm glad you asked me about the husband.

As far as Harvard, I have not picked up the phone and been able to talk to anyone at Harvard. I have been working more the Braintree angle. I will work on that.

Number two, though, when I did talk to Jim Anderson on the phone, he said, look, with regards to the shooting on Friday, I said, did you know you had a gun in your home? Did you know that your wife had a gun?

He said, no, absolutely not.

He described his wife as loving. He said that she spent her spare time writing novels. She had written apparently three novels, sort of -- he described them, medical thrillers.

They seemed to have a fine relationship. She's been working on writing a grant. And so he was jokingly saying, I didn't really get to see my wife a whole lot just because between that and teaching her classes, she wasn't around a lot. They have four kids. He said the family is very distraught and they are just all kind of asking why.

SANCHEZ: One women, three incidents that we're counting up at this point.

BALDWIN: Mm-hmm.

SANCHEZ: I'm glad you're there in Boston to look into this for us.

Thanks so much, Brooke. Appreciate it.

BALDWIN: We will see you at 4:00.

SANCHEZ: All right.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. EVAN BAYH (D), INDIANA: I will not, therefore, be a candidate for reelection to the United States Senate this November. My decision should not be interpreted for more than...

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: Evan Bayh the latest to add his name to THE LIST of those not seeking reelection. What's going on with legacy Democrats? I'm going to drill down on this with Jessica Yellin. Remember, he's not the first, in fact, the third of late, Kennedy, Dodd.

Also a head-on collision between two trains and 18 people -- 18 people are dead as a result of this. Did the engineer miss a stoplight? It's kind of starting to look that way. Stay there. THE LIST scrolls on. I'm Rick Sanchez.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: Welcome back. I'm Rick Sanchez.

Two trains collide and it appears that it happened because one of the engineers was not paying attention. Trains packed with passengers heading to work, 18, at least, are now known dead. And that number, by the way, is expected to go up even higher. Dozens of people have been injured -- 55 people have been treated at area hospital.

In fact, this was so serious that a sports center had to be turned into an emergency treatment center. The impact peeled off part of one of the train cars. And the other car was knocked completely off the tracks.

Part of the train landed on the other train. And witnesses are describing a nightmarish scene there with all the snow at the time. They don't think the snow caused this thing, by the way. But they say, in fact, it was like nothing they could even describe.

Some of the victims had to have their limbs amputated, just so that they could somehow get them out. We will stay on that story for you.

Meanwhile, what got into Vice President Joe Biden? He's actually firing back at former Vice President Dick Cheney this time. Is it a new strategy? This is one healthy exchange between these two V.P.'s, a former and a present. And you're going to hear it.

Also, what are those screams? I guess that's how they do reporting down under. Whoa. The story ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: Congressman Joe Wilson, as you know, is the one who screamed during the president's address to Congress. He's become quite a tweet since then. As a matter of fact, just a little while ago, he sent this tweet out. I want to share it with you. He's talking about Evan Bayh, which is going to be a big part of our conversation here coming up in just a little bit with Jessica Yellin.

"Great news of Senator Bayh's retirement. Good prospects of change in Indiana has now become much brighter. I am happy for Hoosiers." Now, that's a hell of a thing to tweet, isn't it? I mean, the guy is retiring and you're dancing on his -- wow. Joe Wilson, that's an -- go back to that. Did I read that right? I thought he was like going to be saying something like, hey, too bad. Sorry to see you go.

"Great news of Senator Bayh's retirement. Good prospects of change in Indiana has now become much brighter."

Wow. That is mean. "I am happy for Hoosiers."

Boy, when they say these guys in Congress lately just don't get along, wow. I'm really taken aback by that.

Also, this. He's one of President Obama's trusted inner circle, but it's his new job that makes him one of the most intriguing people of the day.

A Muslim of India descent, he is the second ever person appointed to represent the United States and the 57th member Organization of the Islamic Conference. His new title is special envoy, the link between the White House the Islamic faithful around the world, new position, impossible position. He's got degrees from Harvard, from Yale, recognized by Muslim scholars for the rare distinction of having memorized the entire Koran.

He will the American voice in the global Muslim community beginning today. His name is Rashad Hussain, special envoy to the OIC and one of today's most intriguing.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If you can't be safe in church, where can you be safe at?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: You've got to see this video. We're hoping to be able to get it in for you and share it with you. Mean wearing hoods walk into a Sunday church service. The congregation looks at them, these teenagers, is what they look like. Don't know exactly what their age is, because they haven't been found yet.

But the congregation says to them, please, join us. Sit and pray with us. Instead, they take out guns and open fire. People are dead. I'm going to talk to the police who are still searching for these men. We're going to let you know what is going on with this.

We will be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: Yes, Bill Maher is outside and certainly outspoken.

Welcome back. I'm Rick Sanchez.

The vice president of the United States said what he seemed to be thinking yesterday. After months and months of being criticized by former Vice President Dick Cheney, the Obama administration shot back yesterday. Who knew? And the sharpshooter, by the way, was Joe Biden.

Now, I'm going to play that exchange for you, which really is kind of a strange V.P.-on-V.P. moment.

But, first, let me bring in Jessica Yellin.

Jessica, how are you?

JESSICA YELLIN, CNN NATIONAL POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Rick. Good to see you.

SANCHEZ: Good to see you as well.

What do you think of this? Before I do anything else -- it's one of those moments where we promise people that we're going to be checking all the tweets that are coming in from people who are relevant. That's why we call it RICK'S LIST.

And we got this one in just a little while ago. Were checking on to see what Congressman Joe Wilson was up to today. And this is what he tweets.

He says: "Great news of Senator Bayh's retirement. Good prospects of change in Indiana has now become much brighter. I am happy for Hoosiers."

It's not like he's dancing on his grave, because the guy is not dead. He's just retiring. But wouldn't you think just from the standpoint of being collegial that most of the time somebody would say something like, boy, I hate to see Jessica Yellin leaving CNN, she really was good, as opposed to, boy, am I glad that Jessica Yellin is leaving; now we can get a competent reporter in there?

JESSICA YELLIN, CNN NATIONAL POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Right. It does feed the notion that they all hate each other.

SANCHEZ: Yes.

YELLIN: Rick, this is exactly why Evan Bayh says he's going.

So, the basics here at that Evan Bayh was poised to win reelection. This is not a case of a guy dropping out because he thought he was going to lose anyway. And he says he's bowing out after a long career because he's just basically fed up with the gridlock in Congress.

And, in some ways, Republicans should be glad to see Evan Bayh go because he is one of the centrists who worked very hard to work with Republicans.

SANCHEZ: Evan Bayh is no liberal. As a matter of fact, Evan Bayh has had some questionable issues when it comes to both his wife, the boards that she's been appointed to, like United and other health care companies, and his voting record on the health care issue.

So, that's maybe why I'm taken aback. If we had been talking about somebody who was a left -- a super-lefty, I would say, well, OK, those guys on the far right and far left really hate each other.

YELLIN: Right.

SANCHEZ: But, man, if this guy is going after Evan Bayh -- by the way, let's listen to Evan Bayh. He announced his retirement a couple of hours ago. Here's what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BAYH: I love working for the people of Indiana. I love helping our citizens make the most of their lives. But I do not love Congress. I will not, therefore, be a candidate for reelection to the United States Senate this November.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: He was a rising star, too, in many ways.

And another thing which makes him unique, let me ask you about this. Christopher Dodd, whose dad was a superstar...

YELLIN: Right.

SANCHEZ: ... Patrick Kennedy, a Kennedy, and now Evan Bayh, the son of Birch Bayh, one of the most famous names in Midwestern U.S. politics. What is going on here?

YELLIN: Sure.

Well, there is a novel-like drama for men who try to succeed in their father's footsteps and where their fathers haven't gone. Evan Bayh has repeatedly been mentioned as a short-lister for the vice presidential slot certainly under Obama.

But I would caution -- and you could say that the story -- just to finish that -- the story is that these men bow out, instead of chasing the ghost of their father.

SANCHEZ: Yes.

YELLIN: But I would caution that Evan Bayh almost sounded like a possible candidate for a governor of Indiana in his statements today.

Now, I don't think that his political career is necessarily over. His people say that's not what he's thinking about yet. He is not making -- he has not yet made plans for the next step. But he described himself as an independent, a person who speaks for Indiana, not for his party, and somebody who wants to get things done as a chief executive type.

He's already been governor. The seat will be open again in 2010. Wouldn't be surprised if he seeks it. But, basically, Rick, this is a guy saying people in Congress are out for their petty, political skins. They are all concerned about their own political welfare, rather than about achieving legislative success. And he doesn't want to be part of it anymore.

SANCHEZ: By the way, legislative success is a very kind way for you to express something, because I know you're a very kind person.

YELLIN: To get it done.

SANCHEZ: It means about caring are your constituents, about doing the work of the United States citizenry, as opposed to your party, whether you're a Dem or a Republican.

YELLIN: Right.

SANCHEZ: Just thought I would put that one on the record.

I want to talk to you about Joe Biden now.

YELLIN: Right.

SANCHEZ: Because I hadn't seen this Joe Biden in -- at least in quite a while. We know that Dick Cheney has been very critical of the Obama administration and has not been afraid in an unprecedented way of accusing the Obama administration of everything he can think of on any given week.

But this time, Joe Biden shoots back. Let's watch this exchange. If you missed it yesterday, it's a little jaw-dropping. Let's watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOSEPH BIDEN, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I don't think the Vice -- the former Vice President Dick Cheney listens. The president of the United States said in the State of the Union we're at war with al Qaeda.

RICHARD B. CHENEY, FORMER VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I guess I shouldn't be surprised by my friend Joe Biden.

BIDEN: I think we're going to be able to be out of Iraq with all of our combat troops, 90,000 by the end of August.

CHENEY: I'm glad he now believes Iraq is a success. Of course, O'Biden and -- Obama and Biden campaigned from one end of the country to the other for two years criticizing our Iraq policy.

BIDEN: That's Dick Cheney. Thank God the last administration didn't listen to him at the end.

CHENEY: The thing I learned from watching that process unfold, though, was that the administration really wasn't equipped to deal with the aftermath of an attempted attack against the United States, in the sense that they didn't know what to do with the guy.

BIDEN: I don't know what Dick has been doing lately. I don't know. We did exactly what he did with the shoe bomber, Richard Reid, exactly what he did.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: This is interesting.

What -- what makes it interesting is not the Dick Cheney part, because we have heard that before. He -- like I said, he's critical a lot.

But I'm wondering, did the White House suddenly say, look, enough is enough; we're not going to sit back and take Dick Cheney going on FOX News and "Rush Limbaugh" and all the right-wing places and arguing about everything that we do; we're going to take him on, and the man to do that is Joe Biden?

Is this a strategy?

YELLIN: Well, sure, Rick. Right now, the White House has ramped up its communications message, and it's become much more aggressive on many fronts. And this is one of them.

They have been put on the defensive over the Christmas Day attempted bomber, the way they handled that. They have been put on the defensive over the trial of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed. And so they are hitting back on those issues in particular. They have to look strong.

And then in general taking on Cheney in an election year is a win for Democrats because he's so unpopular with the Democratic base. And we all know part of the problem in politics is having an enemy is what helps you raise money, which you need to succeed.

SANCHEZ: Huh.

YELLIN: And, so, right now, taking on Dick Cheney, he is the perfect enemy for the Democratic Party. And he helps make the White House's point to their base that they are being reasonable. And so it's a natural for them to finally push back on this in a very aggressive way.

SANCHEZ: Interesting. So, arguing with Dick Cheney publicly is a winner for them politically.

YELLIN: Yes. In a word, yes. And his poll numbers are not exactly high, Dick Cheney's. And the folks that like him are the far- right base. And so you don't alienate any of the natural Obama Democratic supporters by going after a guy that they already dislike intently. It's a reminder of why Democrats who voted for Obama wanted him in office.

Does it make sense?

SANCHEZ: It makes perfect sense. And that's why we have you on daily.

YELLIN: Thanks, Rick. SANCHEZ: Because you are a sense-maker.

YELLIN: I like that.

(LAUGHTER)

SANCHEZ: Thanks so much, Jessica. Really appreciate it.

All right. This is what else we are going to be sharing with you in just a little bit.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

J.D. HAYWORTH (R), FORMER U.S. CONGRESSMAN: And you could say there are two John McCains, the one that campaigns like a conservative and the one who legislates like a liberal.

(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: How much trouble is John McCain in politically? And have you heard of the thief of hearts? How about a panty thief? Yes, I said it. You can join us for the national conversation whenever you visit Atlanta. Just call 1-877-4CNN-TOUR.

We will be right back. I'm Rick Sanchez. THE LIST scrolls on with you.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: Welcome back. I'm Rick Sanchez.

People shoplift all kinds of items, CDs, DVDs, sunglasses, clothes. I don't get it, but people do it. Get ready to see some shoplifters as they are caught in the act. Let's do "Fotos."

Boca, as Boca Burger, Florida, two days before Valentine's Day, two-man crime machine in a Victoria's Secret store? They head straight for the display of women's panties. Watch the teamwork. One starts scooping underwear into the other's shopping bag. They are out the door.

You know, they got away with about $2,000 worth of lingerie. And, gentlemen, to do what with? The crooks are still out there somewhere trying on panties. We don't know.

This west Palm Beach condo building got hammered by two different hurricanes, but the final blow was delivered by one ton of explosives. Quite a tight squeeze, too. The 30-story building has a narrow footprint and is surrounded by other structures. Down goes Frazier, to the fascination of spectators, who watched and cheered from bridges and boats on the inter-coastal waterway.

(LAUGHTER) And put a wild animal on television and you're going to have a "Fotos del Dia" moment. That's Australia. Check out the Mr. brave TV weather guy there and a pelican who is not impressed. Man, that guy is -- any way, not really sure what is going on here. But the bird is on a mission, and it's the weatherman's pants that he seems to be interested in. Hey, bird, mellow out. You just made "Fotos."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is a church, you know. To me, it's like they committed a cardinal sin.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: You should see this video. Three hooded men walk into a church, one opens fire, still on the loose. By the way, when they walked in, they were actually asked by the people there, please, young men, sit down, pray with us. Instead, they took out guns.

Also, talk about a wipe out. One minute they are looking and the next minute they are gone. We're going to take to you California.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: Welcome back. I'm Rick Sanchez.

I told you that my staff and I had looked at these pictures a little while ago of this church shooting out in California near San Francisco.

We hadn't shown them to you yet, but you're about to see them right now. Let me set the scene for you. It's in the middle of church service, but all of a sudden some hooded men, possibly teenagers, we don't know yet because they have been found -- suddenly come into the church.

Parishioners told them, look, try and control yourselves, sit begun with us, pray, join us. Instead, they take out guns in the middle of a song. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(SINGING)

(SHOOTING)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is a church. To me it's like they committed a cardinal scene.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: Look at all of the gunfire inside there. And just at the moment when the people were celebrating their faith, I mean, it's got folks there shaken up.

I want someone to join us now. She's the PIO, the public information officer there. She's Bisa French, a sergeant, and she's good enough to join us from the Richmond police department. Sergeant, thanks for being with us. Sergeant, I can't hear you. Are you there?

SGT. BISA FRENCH, RICHMOND, CALIFORNIA POLICE: Yes, I'm here.

SANCHEZ: OK, sorry about that. Have you got a beat on these guys?

FRENCH: We are investigating who these suspects might be and we're hoping that we can make an arrest sometime in the near future.

SANCHEZ: How were they able to get away?

FRENCH: Well, they shot into the parishioners in the church and then they fled on foot, and we believe they got into a vehicle and fled.

SANCHEZ: Who were they trying to shoot?

FRENCH: We believe that they were targeting a member of the church or several members of the church. We don't know who exactly that was at this point.

SANCHEZ: Was this drug-related, gang-related? Have you got a sense of this yet?

FRENCH: No, we don't have a motive for this case yet.

SANCHEZ: Where do you think they might be at this point? Are they in a particular community where you're looking for them? Have you contacted any of their relatives or associates?

FRENCH: We do believe that they may still be in the community and we're working tirelessly at this time to confirm our leads and hopefully get these people into custody.

SANCHEZ: Sergeant, what does it say about someone who's willing to go into a place of god and take out guns and shoot people and try to kill them?

FRENCH: Well, it's a very brazen attack. This is broad daylight and a church full of parishioners. And it's just a very brazen attack and we need to show the community that this is not the violence that we're going to stand for.

SANCHEZ: But what does it say? I'm serious. Help me here. You've chosen a church as your venue to kill someone in front of innocents who are with their wives and their children praying?

FRENCH: Right. It shows that they lack any sense of well-being for any of the citizens in this area and that they are willing to carry out, you know, their violent acts in whatever way they feel necessary.

SANCHEZ: Doesn't it seem to tell you that if they are willing to walk into a church and kill people, they are willing to kill anywhere? They don't care -- rules, whether they are man's rule or god's rules, nothing matters, right? What else are we left with when we see someone do something like this?

FRENCH: That's why we feel it's very important that we make an arrest in this case and fairly shortly here so we can try to restore some of the sense of safety for our community.

SANCHEZ: Is there a sense that there is just a breakdown going down here? When you consider the video from earlier this year with the young lady who was apparently raped outside a school dance -- there were people in the area, and it took awhile for them to finally call police.

Do you feel like maybe you're losing your citizenry in some sense to the bad elements out there?

FRENCH: We do have a fluctuation of people that are willing to stand up and say we are not willing to tolerate this in our community. We need more people to stand up and say, we're not going to accept this. This is not right.

And I think we're seeing some this. We saw some of that that in the rape case and now we're seeing some of that in this case where people are coming forward and give us some information and get these people off the street.

SANCHEZ: It kind of like, Sergeant, one of those enough is enough moments it sounds like must be being reached in your community.

Back to the original case now, take us through the scene. A man walks in. How many rounds did they get off, tell us exactly how many people there were, and how many people were injured?

FRENCH: Well, there were about 100 plus people in the church when this occurred. They were able to get off several rounds before they fled.

SANCHEZ: "Several" would be two, three, ten, 12, 20?

FRENCH: Less than ten. I don't have an exact number.

SANCHEZ: What about the innocent parishioner who were there? How many people were hit?

FRENCH: There were two people who were hit, a 14-year-old and 19-year-old. Both are suffering from nonlife threatening injuries.

SANCHEZ: You may said this, but I didn't hear you. What kind of weapons did they have?

FRENCH: They had a handgun.

SANCHEZ: Just handguns?

FRENCH: Yes.

SANCHEZ: Wow. And I say just handguns. You can do just as much damage, but at least they didn't have some kind of automatic weapon.

Sergeant, you've been very kind to join us and take us through the details of this case. It's absolutely fascinating when somebody would walk into a church and just open fire on people in the middle of a prayer song, no less. My thanks to you again.

FRENCH: You're welcome.

SANCHEZ: All right, the other big story we're following for you today is a professor. That's what she looks like. Police say she killed three of her Alabama colleagues. They also say she killed her own brother. Never was charged with that, interestingly enough. Did she also try to kill a Harvard professor? We're looking into this for you.

Also, a man who directed some of the most successful movies in Hollywood. Get this, he's thrown off a Southwest Airlines plane for being too fat. Not my word -- his. He's tweeting about it. How fat is he? Does that mean -- all right. This is THE LIST. I'm Rick Sanchez. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: Welcome back. I'm Rick Sanchez. Have you heard what's happening with the Republicans? Long time incumbents are being challenged from the right in primary cases. Who would have thought that this guy would have to fight his way through a primary? This was a guy who was almost president of the United States.

There he is. John McCain has a Republican challenger. His name is J.D. Hayworth.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

J.D. HAYWORTH, (R) SENATE PRIMARY CANDIDATE: You could say there are two John McCains, the one who campaigns like a conservative and the one who legislates like a liberal.

(APPLAUSE)

In fact, when it comes time to debate, I'm going to ask for a third chair in case both John McCains show up.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: And look who is here to visit with us, David Gergen. The honorable David Gergen is in Atlanta. Hello, good to see you.

DAVID GERGEN, CNN POLITICAL SENIOR ANALYST: Good to see you, sir. Tell me, where is the hair salon. That's all I've been hearing about.

(LAUGHTER)

SANCHEZ: Would you stop? Of all people, you've got to jump on this bandwagon. I just comb my hair back instead of sideways. GERGEN: It looks good.

SANCHEZ: The Glenn Campbell thing is over. It's time to move on.

(LAUGHTER)

Listen, I've got to ask you about this.

GERGEN: Sure.

SANCHEZ: Because this is what I'm thinking. Is John McCain, David, going to need Sarah Palin to come in and rescue him in Arizona?

GERGEN: It's going to help a heck of a lot, and so is Scott Brown. Rick, the real question is, will the tea party folks go over to J.D. Hayworth. And with Sarah Palin coming in, she can help to staunch that flow of people leaving McCain and going, and so can Scott Brown.

Given all the tensions we've seen between Sarah Palin and the McCain campaign team --

SANCHEZ: Let me ask you, David. When did John McCain lose his conservative credentials? Was it because he sponsored the immigration reform act?

GERGEN: That had a lot to do with it. Arizona is a hot state, as you know. He's always been a maverick, and, you know, he's basically conservative but on some issues --

SANCHEZ: We fact-checked him. He's 85 percent conservative when voting.

GERGEN: Right.

SANCHEZ: When voting.

GERGEN: That's a pretty big number. But there's a pretty big number.

But there's a purity test in the minds of some people. And the danger for any Republican is if you start moving to the middle, or if you start being a maverick, then you're going to have somebody run against you from the right, and that's what is happening here.

Now, John McCain I think is a strong -- I think he's going to be in a tough race. He's likely to win it. But after being five terms, being the nominee of the party, the president of the United States --

SANCHEZ: It's a story that he's having to fight to stay.

GERGEN: It's a story that he's having to fight to stay. I think he will do well, and the fact that Sarah Palin and Scott Brown are coming in -- he formed a nice relationship with Scott Brown as well. Scott Brown is almost a John McCain Republican on some issues. SANCHEZ: Really?

GERGEN: Yes.

SANCHEZ: Scott Brown is more of a middle of the road Republican.

GERGEN: Yes.

SANCHEZ: You can be that in Massachusetts.

GERGEN: But Scott Brown is also proud of his military background. He served in the JAG corps in the lawyer side of the Reserves here for a long time, for some 20 years. And so he relates to McCain on a personal buddy kind of basis. And McCain has embraced him, endorsed him and went up to campaign for him.

SANCHEZ: This ideology --

GERGEN: Yes.

SANCHEZ: That is embraced by J.D. Hayworth and other people like him, it's almost a nativist ideology. And I'm not using that in an accusative tone. I'm saying it comes closer to our country, our people, these other people are not like us. Let's be careful with them.

GERGEN: Nativism has a lot of negative connotations.

SANCHEZ: I know.

GERGEN: But patriotic has a lot, obviously. There are a lot of people deeply patriotic who are not know-nothings.

SANCHEZ: But are we getting close to that when you come out and start making your big push, immigration, people who don't look like us, when Joe Arpaio is endorsing you, what does that say about you?

GERGEN: Here's what is really worrisome now. We also had Evan Bayh's decision today to retire from the Senate. He has been one of the leading members of the center of the Senate, a person was a moderate who could form relationships across the aisle. When people like that disappear from our politics, that means you get very few people who are left in the center. And when you are in the center, or you're a maverick like John McCain, you're much more apt to be attacked from your flank.

SANCHEZ: This is what Arlen Specter said when he left the Republican Party. He said there was a purity test going on in the Republican Party. Those were his exact words.

Is this the kind of thing that we're hearing from the other side now with Evan Bayh, saying, look -- here's what I heard him say today. There's no room for people like me who are in the middle. No room for people except for moderates.

GERGEN: And that, to me, is a tragedy because I think that's where the best work has been done in my lifetime in Washington with the big bipartisan things get passed it's usually done in the middle, and people come and you get the big social initiative, people go to war together, not as two different parties.

And those kinds of things are really important.

SANCHEZ: I'm laughing because I'm thinking, Jessica Yellin and I were talking the other day, and she said something funny. She said, you know why politicians got along better in the old days, Tip O'Neil and Ronald Reagan and those guys? They had a place to drink together.

GERGEN: That's true. And Tip and Reagan, you know, they would fight like hell until 5:00, but after that they could put down their differences and lift up a glass.

SANCHEZ: We just got a tweet a little while ago that I find interesting. Eric, up in Washington, if you can put the Joe Wilson tweet back up, I want to put it up and show it to David, because he -- as I said to the viewers a little while ago, you guys heard me at home.

It's not like he's dancing on his grave, but when a guy retires, you would think a colleague would say, boy, it's good having you. Good luck. But look at this -- "Great news of your retirement. Good prospects of change in Indiana has now become much brighter. I'm happy for Hoosiers."

This certainly is not a compliment. It's almost like a -- this is mean.

GERGEN: It is. It's sandbox. And Americans are mostly sick of the politicians in Washington playing in a sandbox, and all these fights and everything like that. They want to see progress and results on jobs, and on deficits. And all of this kind of stuff is nonsense that we're seeing here, but it's the way the game is played.

And Evan Bayh said the hell with it. This guy, he is one of the most popular people in Indiana, his dad was a popular senator, Birch Bayh. He was a two-time governor, he's done a couple terms in the Senate. He's very, very good.

SANCHEZ: Is this -- look, let's do the numbers. Ready? Kennedy.

GERGEN: Right.

SANCHEZ: I know different case, but Chris Dodd, senator, whose dad, these are all legacy Democrats. Birch Bayh's son, Ted Kennedy's son, Christopher Dodd, whose father was famous in his own right as a prosecutor --

GERGEN: Yes, the Bayh family's a legend in Indiana.

SANCHEZ: Oh, yes. These big Democratic names getting out --

GERGEN: Well, one report, but what it is a trend. It shows, as we've talked about, how the weight is shifting. And, you know, a guy like Patrick Kennedy getting out is partly very personal, but it's true that the wind shifted against him in Rhode Island, and he's the last Kennedy standing. There may be more in the future.

But I think the really -- you know, incumbents are in trouble anyway.

SANCHEZ: Right.

GERGEN: All of them. But when you add to this that you're going to get attacked in your own party from your right or left flank, as John McCain is getting attacked, it just makes it a lot meaner.

And here Evan Bayh has been working very hard on these deficits. He's been trying to form a group of moderates to get the deficits under better control. He's been the leading voice on that among moderate Democrats.

SANCHEZ: But I'll tell you, though. I'm just thinking as you and I having this conversation. We're talking about on this day, and we don't know how big a trend this is going to be -- but we're talking about Democrats quitting and moderate Republicans --

GERGEN: Under fire.

SANCHEZ: Under fire.

GERGEN: Right. That tells you your politics are whipping back to the right again. After a couple years, 2006, they started moving left, Democrats picked up a lot of seats in that Congress. In 2008, big time with Obama.

But it hasn't lasted very long. And now we've got this backlash going on. Who knows how long that will go on? The White House is going to make a big effort to flush out the Republicans say, OK, we've heard about what you're against, now tell us what you're for. And the Republicans may split up on their own as in Arizona.

So there's a lot here that is subject to, you know -- there' there's -- this is not -- there's no assurance here for Republicans are going to do well. But I'll tell you --

SANCHEZ: You're right because often times you get most powerful, that's when you make your biggest mistakes.

GERGEN: Exactly. It can go to your head, the arrogance can go to your head.

It's good to see you, Rick.

SANCHEZ: Thanks for coming by. Visit again. See if we can get these guys drinking in Washington.

GERGEN: Let's have a drink here.

(LAUGHTER) SANCHEZ: Thanks, David.

All right, let's go to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(SHOUTING)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: Wow, take a look at that. Talk about a rogue wave. This thing seemed to come out of nowhere. That story's coming up in just a little bit.

Also, any minute now we could learn if the ten Americans being held in Haiti on child kidnapping charges might get bail after all and return to the United States. This is one of those stories that goes around and around and around, but what would it be like for you being in a jail in Haiti, a country that's had a bunch of earthquakes? This is scary stuff.

We're going to bring it to you as soon as something happens. Stay right there, THE LIST continues. I'm Rick Sanchez and we'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: Welcome back. I'm Rick Sanchez.

The college professor accused of killing three colleagues, did she have a checkered history that fell through the cracks? Our Brooke Baldwin is drilling down on this one in Boston for us.

And a prescription mistake by a pharmacy technician killed a two- year-old child with cancer -- a prescription mistake. This is the pharmacist. And man, he doesn't feel good about it. He didn't do it on purpose, it was just a mistake. He's sentenced -- convicted and sentenced. In fact, there he is. We're going to talk to him.

Also that story is there, and as we go to the break, I want to let you know that Ed Henry has just tweeted an interesting story to us. Let's go to that as we go to break.

"White House," he says, "just announced that Vice President Biden will travel week of March 8th to Israel, the Palestinian Authority, Egypt, and Jordan." So Biden is going now to do the work that the president was doing.

What's the president doing? Here's the back story. The White House seems to be scaling back the president's foreign travel schedule compared to last year, giving heavy focus to economic issues at home. Change in strategy? And there's Ed Henry picking up on it and sharing it with us on his twitter account.

Boy, so glad we do that. That's why we call it RICK'S LIST. We'll be right back. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)