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Rick's List
President Obama Approves Two Nuclear Power Plants; Can Democrats Save Evan Bayh's Senate Seat?
Aired February 16, 2010 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
RICK SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): Here's what is making THE LIST today: a 1,500-foot drop and the dangerous effort to reach a man who fell into the crater of Mount Saint Helens.
The president signs off on two new nuclear power plants.
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Investing in nuclear energy remains a necessary step.
SANCHEZ: Why have we not built one in a generation? Will it solve our energy needs? Who is against this? Who is for it? You will hear both.
Members of a hit squad coordinate their arrival at a hotel to kill this man. There are new details behind this surveillance video.
Dudley Do-Right could not have done this any better. He saves a life. Does he end up losing his in the process?
The lists you need to know about. Who is "Today's Most Intriguing Person"? Who is on "The List You Don't Want To Be On"? You will find out as our national conversation on Twitter, on the air starts right now.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ: Hello again, everybody. I'm Rick Sanchez. Here is what is making the list right now on your national conversation.
I want to start with a picture. Take a look at this right there. See that? That is new video that just came in moments ago. It is from Mount Saint Helens in Washington State. It is the volcano that scorched miles of earth and killed 57 people when it blew three decades ago.
Stay with me here. Right now, rescuers are trying to reach one man who is inside the crater of Mount Saint Helens. Heck of a picture in your head, huh? His name is Joseph Bohlig. He climbed the mountains dozens of time in the past, but, yesterday, he took off his jacket, took off his backpack, and was posing for a picture.
Guess where he was posing for this picture? He was posing for this picture right at the very edge of the crater. Imagine the hole of the crater, right? And he is sitting there with the hole, the crater hole right behind him.
There was a problem. He didn't realize it, but what he was actually standing on was an overhang that was just ice and snow. It broke. It collapsed. And this fellow fell 1,500 feet into the crater.
Now, some of this is what the police are working with right now. I mean, it is a difficult situation. All right? There is what I believe is part of the crater, as you look at it, but we're going to take you all through this. It's very rough inside there. The sheriff came out and explained what is going on just a little while ago. I want to take you to that. Here it is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAVE BROWN, SKAMANIA COUNTY, WASHINGTON, SHERIFF: You are looking at a probably slope about like that, you know, between 45 and 90. So, it is steep, very, very steep and very unstable, unstable rock.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: You heard what he said right there. It's too steep, it's too unstable to try and reach him by ground. It would probably take hours to even get to him.
Don't even know what his condition is at this point, because he is out of communication, he's out of contact with some of the authorities there, so now they're going to -- they believe that they are going to use a Navy helicopter to literally fly into the crater hole, and see if they can somehow get him out.
We have got two people we're going to talk to.
First of all, we got Patrick Oppmann. He is standing by out there on the scene. He's been talking to the officials all day long. And we are going to hook with him in just a little bit, and as soon as we get him -- Pam, let me know when Patrick is ready to go.
Meanwhile, let me bring in Chad Myers.
You have been looking at this thing all day. This is fascinating.
CHAD MYERS, AMS METEOROLOGIST: A couple things. The weather is getting so much better now. They will get him today. If they can find him, they will get him. There's no question about that.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: Give me a sense of how big this crater is.
MYERS: It's a mile in diameter. So, if you look from the edge of the carter to the other edge of the crater, the big circle that's only a half-moon because half of it blew out, but it is a mile across. This guy fell off the cornice, the overhang on the top. I have a graphic picture of what this looks like.
SANCHEZ: Oh, good.
MYERS: There is dirt down below it. Then, all of the sudden, it snows. Do we have that? It is either on 113 or 118. We don't have the words on it.
SANCHEZ: Let us know when you have got it, Rog.
MYERS: There it is. And you see the dirt. You see the brown part where the red lines are? That is where the dirt is. That is where the volcano lava is there. It's solid.
SANCHEZ: Right.
MYERS: But he was not standing on that. He was standing on that white part, which is the snow. And that snow just let go.
So, he was literally standing 10, 15 feet above where the dirt really was and he slid all the way down. Now go to the next picture here. This is actually the live Webcam from Johnson Observatory over here. You can actually see the ridgeline. That's the edge of the crater.
In the middle, it's hard to tell right now, but there's the lava dome. Now, this guy didn't get burnt. He didn't like fall into the magma, right?
SANCHEZ: Right.
MYERS: He is still OK if he survived the fall, if he survived the night in the cold. They saw him waving for a while, but they weren't able to get to him yesterday.
SANCHEZ: Can I ask you a question. Forget why would someone do something like this, but why are people allowed to do this?
(CROSSTALK)
MYERS: Free will.
SANCHEZ: Really?
MYERS: I guess. You have to have a permit to get above 4,500 feet in the wintertime.
And they have let -- this guy has been up there 68 times.
SANCHEZ: So, he is one of these guys who does this, like these mountaineers, for example?
MYERS: Yes.
SANCHEZ: That is probably exactly what he is, right? He's a mountaineer. MYERS: Absolutely. And it would take 14 to 16 hours to go get him the other direction, walking.
SANCHEZ: All right, we have got some live pictures coming up.
MYERS: Oh, great.
SANCHEZ: Well, we had live pictures coming in there just a minute ago.
See if you can put that up when you get a chance, Angie.
As you look at these -- all right, here we go. These are some of the very first pictures we have seen from this area. It is a bad signal, because the helicopter is taking the pictures. They are live now.
Chad, explain this to us. What are we looking at?
MYERS: That is the peak of the snow. This is the edge of the volcanic crater. If you would make a big circle out of those peaks, you would have the crater, or the caldera, of the volcano itself.
And so it almost looked like there was somebody up on top of that.
SANCHEZ: Yes, it did, didn't it?
(CROSSTALK)
MYERS: Maybe it is just a tree, but I would assume that that is maybe above tree line. And trees don't grow very well on lava.
SANCHEZ: So, this is where he was. I mean, we don't know exactly where he is, but this is -- they're shooting -- this is part of the crater.
Now, you said the crater hold is about a mile wide, so we're talking -- there are lots of peaks then, right?
(CROSSTALK)
MYERS: Well, there are peaks all the way around.
SANCHEZ: Exactly.
(CROSSTALK)
MYERS: You see it. It goes up and jagged, up and down, up and down, up and down, and then that goes around almost I would say a complete semicircle, half-circle, because what happened when Mount Saint Helens blew up last time, half of the mountain blew off.
It literally blew off and 50 people or so died because that whole side of the mountain is now gone. So, it is not like a bowl. It is a bowl that the one-half of the bowl is gone. SANCHEZ: Well, question. They say that he fell -- now we are looking at the inside of the crater.
MYERS: That is the lava dome. See that kind of a bumpy spot right there?
SANCHEZ: Yes.
MYERS: That's the lava dome. And that has been going up for the past couple of years, which is why they are thinking, hey, this thing still is not -- it is not done.
SANCHEZ: For those just joining us now, might have been joining us just a little bit while ago, we are trying to get a bead on this story about a climber, a mountaineer who apparently has fallen into the crater of Mount Saint Helens.
Chad Myers is with me. Hopefully, we're going to get one of our correspondents to join us, Patrick Oppmann, in just a little bit.
In the meantime, they are saying, Chad, that he fell 1,500 feet.
MYERS: That's possible.
SANCHEZ: Well, if he fell straight down 1,500 feet, he is dead.
MYERS: Yes.
SANCHEZ: That is a big building, 15-story building? I am doing the math here.
(CROSSTALK)
MYERS: Right. And then after he fell, his climbing partner threw his backpack to him, hoping that the backpack would go to same distance that he did, and so he might be able to -- if alive -- would be able to go to climb to it and crawl to it and get those things in the backpack, signaling things, probably some power bars, things like that.
SANCHEZ: Right.
MYERS: But they said that when they looked for the red backpack, it was about 300 feet from where he was, so that -- the climber, the faller, never did find his backpack. It was still away from him last night, but he was at a point waving to a helicopter, they believe.
SANCHEZ: By the way, when I said that he would probably be dead, that is if it was a fall straight down like this pencil. It is probably more of an incline, isn't it?
MYERS: I might want to fall straight down as a pencil and get it over with, considering he was tumbling and hitting rocks all the way down.
SANCHEZ: Really? And the conditions below zero? MYERS: No, no. The conditions are about 40, 43 at the Johnson Observatory.
SANCHEZ: OK.
MYERS: So, getting colder tonight, because that was a warm -- you know, it is the same problem that Vancouver can't get any snow. It has not been that cold in the Pacific Northwest this winter. But it gets colder tonight.
(CROSSTALK)
MYERS: They absolutely will get him today. The weather is clearing. The winds are not bad. There is two helicopters, one Jayhawk and another coming in from the NSA, the Naval station. They will get to either him or his body today.
SANCHEZ: Apparently, we were not able to hook up with Patrick Oppmann, but he is out there. He's been asking questions and drilling down on this story.
And hopefully he is going to be able to join us in just a little bit. I was just told in fact that we might get him in the next block or the one after. When he comes on, come out here and help me out with this.
(CROSSTALK)
MYERS: I'm not going anywhere.
SANCHEZ: Great, man. Appreciate it.
Also, this. This man right here, he vowed to kill any police who crossed him and then he did, killing four police officers while they drank their morning coffee. You are going to hear him describe his plan. It is eerie, folks.
Also, why is a 7-month-old baby dangling out of a fifth-floor window? That story is coming up in just a little bit.
Stay right there. The LIST scrolls on. I'm Rick Sanchez.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: All right. Welcome back. I'm Rick Sanchez.
We have got a chance now to talk to Patrick Oppmann. Chad Myers is standing by with me here.
Tell these guys in control room what video you want?
MYERS: The -- Google Earth actually has an enormous -- just great high-res image of this. We're going to zoom right in. My producer is over there hitting all of the right buttons.
(CROSSTALK) MYERS: Seattle up to the north, Portland down in the bottom flying right into the crater itself. You asked about the crater, a mile around. But you see how --
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: Yes, I see the rim. I see the rim right there.
MYERS: You see how this side is gone?
SANCHEZ: Right.
MYERS: Literally, that is the side that got blown away in the big explosion back in the '80s. I mean, that whole side is all gone and now we are looking right in where that side would have been.
SANCHEZ: I'm going to stop you for just a moment. I'm going to bring Patrick Oppmann in. He is our correspondent who is following this, story has been since he first heard of it.
Patrick, you are on the air. What do you have?
PATRICK OPPMANN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Weather is finally lifting here. They're hoping to get those Navy helicopters in.
When I talked to sheriffs this morning, they were very, very disappointed, almost crushed that they could not get in rescuers. They really want to get in to this individual. They are still operating under the assumption that he is alive.
So, the weather has lifted. And when I got up here this morning, you had the driving rain. You had heavy cloud cover. You could not see even the mountain. That has all changed.
And, so, rescuers are hoping now they have that window of opportunity to get in and possibly pull off a bit of a miracle here.
SANCHEZ: Patrick, what Chad and I don't know and want to know, and we were just talking about this a little while ago, is, do we have any sense of what condition this guy is in? Has there been any communication with him?
OPPMANN: There were some reports yesterday that there had been some whistling, that he might have had a whistle that climbers --
SANCHEZ: Oh, there we go. There we go. It just froze up on us.
I'm glad we were able to hear that, the fact that, apparently, he may have a whistle on him and that they heard some kind of whistling going on.
MYERS: Yes, possibly. But the sheriff also said, look, helicopters were in the air. The wind was blowing 50. I don't know how anybody would hear a whistle if that was. It could have just been literally things blowing through the air. Can we go to that picture that we got from "The Oregonian"? I think that is how you say it. It is a fabulous shot that one of the photographers from the newspaper took. It will kind of give you a sense of the mountain. And then --
SANCHEZ: Is that it?
MYERS: -- if you look above the word story, that little dot, that is a helicopter.
SANCHEZ: Wow.
MYERS: So, the scope and the size of the mountain is enormous, and he fell off of the top of that.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: That little dot right on top of the R?
MYERS: Well, it's kind of -- I know it is hard to see. The contrast is kind of tough.
Yes, there is a dot. It looks like it may be a red dot above the R. That literally is the helicopter that you see blown up there in the circle.
SANCHEZ: Right. Wow.
MYERS: So, they kind of blew it up there and put it in circle. But the distance that he fell from the top of the cornice, from that overhang, all the way down --
SANCHEZ: That really gives you a perspective on what this area is.
MYERS: Gives you a feel how big it is, how far he went.
SANCHEZ: All right. By the way, the hiker is 52 years old, but he has got experience. He's done this before. He knows what he is doing, I suppose.
MYERS: Yes.
SANCHEZ: Thanks. Good stuff.
MYERS: You don't go up there in this kind of weather --
SANCHEZ: Unless you have done it before.
MYERS: -- unless you have done it before.
SANCHEZ: Yes. He is a true mountaineer. The question is, it doesn't matter how experienced you are. A 1,500-foot fall is a 1,500- foot fall for anybody.
MYERS: Yes. SANCHEZ: All right. We will continue to follow that story. If we get Patrick up and we get new information, we will share it with you.
Meanwhile, you have got to see this. Take a look at what this young woman did to save her cousin from a fire. That is a 7-month-old baby dangling outside a fifth-floor window. And that is 18-year-old Vanessa Scott holding her.
The apartment they were in caught fire yesterday afternoon. Now, Scott tells "The New York Daily News" smoke and flames were everywhere. The baby couldn't breathe. All Scott could see was the window. She grabbed the baby and slid her through the bar, so that she could get some air. And then she hung on for dear life.
Look at that. A neighbor took this picture just before firefighters made it up ladders to save the family. Scott, the baby, and eight relatives were finally rescued. The baby's father got out by jumping from a window.
Can the Democrats salvage Evan Bayh's seat, or did he hang his own party out to dry? I'm going to drill down on this with Jessica Yellin. She is coming up in just a little bit. As a matter of fact, look,, there she is, by golly.
And an entire hillside gives way in Italy, splitting a town in half. Look at this video. That story is ahead.
The LIST scrolls on. I'm Rick Sanchez.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
CALLER: Hey, Rick. This is Tom from Maine.
And the reason the politicians are all deciding not to run is that they are getting out while the getting is good, because they realize they can do nothing to change the way we are heading. Thank you.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Americans talking about our politicians.
Welcome back. I'm Rick Sanchez here on THE LIST.
Indiana's Evan Bayh is not bowing out quietly. First, he says that he is quitting the Senate because it is broken, because nothing there is getting done. You heard that. We explained it to you yesterday.
Well, today, he actually went a step further. I want you to listen to this. Today, he goes on CNN and he basically suggests to Americans that we should all just throw the bums out. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. EVAN BAYH (D), INDIANA: So, we have got to vote out the ideologues who are unwilling to accept half-a-loaf, rather than none, and we have got to vote out the partisans who care more about their political fortunes than the country.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Jessica Yellin is joining me now.
This is a heck of a thing for a guy to say. I'm just sitting here thinking, wow. He has really got his dander up. What is going on with Evan Bayh?
JESSICA YELLIN, CNN NATIONAL POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Rick, this is one of those instances where it really seems to be truly what it is on its face. He is mad as heck and he ain't going to take it anymore.
The guy has not been able to make progress on the issues that he says he cares about. And he is not the first member to leave Congress in the last frankly decade-and-a-half saying that they just feel like it is not the most effective use of their time.
There is such intense -- as much as people are frustrated with members, members get frustrated themselves.
SANCHEZ: Well --
YELLIN: Yes.
SANCHEZ: Hey, Roger, can you rerun that sound bite? Let's take it apart. He seemed to say two things there. Do it. Roger, hit that again. I want to hear that again.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BAYH: So, we have got to vote out the ideologues who are unwilling to accept half-a-loaf, rather than none, and we have got to vote out the partisans who care more about their political fortunes than the country.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: The ideologues and the partisans.
YELLIN: So, here is something that is fascinating, Rick.
What has happened is the districts in America have become drawn in such specific ways. You know, they call -- it's a funny word, gerrymandering.
SANCHEZ: Right.
YELLIN: That you can get people represent the edge, instead of the middle, and you get so many people representing the edges, instead of the middle, that there are only edges in Congress, that there are only people who don't want to talk to each other.
And there are a lot of folks who come from the old school who feel like that has got to change. We have to have a different type of person elected to Congress, so that you're willing to compromise.
And folks who fall in the middle are just so fed up. They complain about it incessantly, to reporters, to each other, and they just don't want to hold office anymore.
SANCHEZ: You know, I think most thinking Americans could really give a hoot whether the person who represents them is a Republican or a Greenie or a Democrat.
YELLIN: Right. They just want to get something done.
SANCHEZ: They just hope that they go in there and get something done, but, as you look at Bayh's resignation, it seems like he left his party, the Dems, kind of out in the lurch, didn't he?
YELLIN: He really -- well, he really did, because of the timing, first of all. He dropped out right before a crucial deadline, which means no other Democrat was able to file in time to run for his seat, so they have to go through all these local machinations to pick someone to run for his seat. That just puts the party at a disadvantage.
It also means that there's a good chance whoever runs is not going to be as well-known as the Republican in the state and they could lose Indiana. So, yes, it was not so good to the Democratic Party, the way he times this one.
I can only add though, Rick, that the -- the polling broadly shows that Americans are ticked off with every incumbent, Republican and Democrat, so, generically speaking, everyone is going to have a hard time come November.
SANCHEZ: There is something that is working its way in the news again in the last couple of days, actually since "Meet the Press." There seems to be a growing sentiment out there that many of the Republicans who voted against the stimulus package -- in fact, every Republican voted against the stimulus package -- but, suddenly, they are all showing up out there at county fairs and at fund-raisers with big checks, giving the money away and taking credit for the jobs that are being created by the stimulus package.
Now, this is interesting. And the president, by the way, alluded to this.
Rog, do we have that? Run that sound. Run that sound.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: A lot of you have gone to appear at ribbon cuttings for the same projects that you voted against.
(END VIDEO CLIP) SANCHEZ: Appeared at ribbon cuttings for the same projects you voted against.
Is it fair to say that there may be a hypocritical edge to that?
YELLIN: Well, this is politics, isn't it? How many people do you know who are against earmarks in general, rally against earmarks, still celebrate when they get money earmarked to the farm subsidies in their states or to the local hospitals in their region?
This is how Congress works. Wake up and smell the coffee, people. That is what they do. And it is not a partisan thing in this case. It's what Republicans are doing. Plenty of folks who opposed to stimulus broadly, sure, are celebrating the money when it comes on home, but it is hardly unique to the Republican Party.
SANCHEZ: Well, it just seems a little weird to say, this is horrible, it's not going to create jobs for Americans.
YELLIN: Sure.
SANCHEZ: And then you go to a place and say, this is great, look at the jobs that I helped to create for America.
No, you didn't. You voted against it.
YELLIN: Well, what they would say, in some instances, is, they would have supported elements of the stimulus package, certain mechanisms that created some jobs, but not the overall package.
SANCHEZ: That's true. Yes. That's true.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: And that is fair. That's fair.
Jessica Yellin, as usual, right on top of things. Thanks so much. Appreciate it.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: What in the world is going on here? The Olympics are going on in Vancouver, so why are these people protesting and what are they protesting about? And why are they being so violent in their protest?
For the first time in an entire generation, a U.S. president signs off on plans to build two nuclear reactors. You heard it right. The president of the United States has decided to build two nuclear reactors in the United States. Is it wise? Is it necessary? Or is it dangerous?
We have got the answers for you coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Welcome back to the world headquarters of CNN. I'm Rick Sanchez.
What you're looking at there are live pictures that are coming in to us right now from the crater of Mount Saint Helens. And the reason we are showing you this is, there is a 52-year-old man who has fallen into that crater. They still have not been able to establish communication with him. They have not been able to spot him, as far as we know. They are working diligently to do so.
And we understand they have actually sent a Navy helicopter into that crater to see if they can find him.
As we continue -- what is that? As we continue to get pictures and as we continue to follow what is going on, we will let you know.
Meanwhile, who is the most intriguing person in the news today?
Hit it, Rog.
He was born on this day in 1942. Official bios say that on that day rainbows filled the sky and the new star appeared in the heavens. Where? Siberia? Well, that is likely where he was born, according to experts. His father was a ruthless dictator, yet insisted on being called great.
People filled the streets in his country today, because it is his birthday and he commands the world's fourth largest standing army. He writes novels and produces movies. Who is he? North Korean leader Kim Jong Il, reclusive, mysterious and definitely one of the world's most intriguing.
There is news that the Alabama professor who police say killed three of her colleagues may have killed her own brother on purpose. This is what police are investigating. And it is starting to look like there are signs pointing in that direction. Brooke Baldwin has been getting some information on this story and she's going to join me in just a little bit to tell you what she knows. She is there in Boston investigating it.
Also, if a train is coming, do you do this? Do you take off your coat, run over there and try and push this car out of the way? The question is, does that man make it out alive? That story is ahead.
You can join the national conversation right here whenever you visit Atlanta. We love having you visit. If you want to do so, call this number, 1-877-4CNN-TOUR, 877-4CNN-TOUR.
This is THE LIST. We scroll on.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Here we go. Ah, the Olympic Games, citizens of the world putting aside their differences and facing one another in the spirit of brotherhood and athletic competition, right? Let's do "Fotos."
Vancouver -- this is the Winter Olympic venue for 2010. Watch these demonstrators, about 300 of them, fighting with police, smashing windows, destroying store fronts and then some. They are anarchists who object to the world's powerful meeting for these Olympic Games. By the way, when they are not protesting, they are planning a protest.
Next, Argentina -- watch Mr. helpful here. He is in the motorcycle here. The dude gets out of the motorcycle, and pushes the van out of the way and barely gets out himself. Talk about a close call.
All right, look at the earth right there moving before our eyes. This is the Calabria region of southern Italy on the toe of the boot. Heavy rains triggered several massive landslides which buried buildings, tore down electric towers and caused hundreds of people to flee. Let's take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(SHOUTING)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Wow. "Run, run." It happened in Sicily as well. Amazingly, nobody was hurt or killed, but the frightening set of photos is something we have not seen in a long time. That is "Fotos."
While that man was in prison, he threatened to kill police officers. Then he got out of jail and did just that. We have the prison phone recordings of his plans. You will actually hear him say what he plans to do to police officers before he does it to police officers. This is an eerie story, an eerie conversation.
Also, an Alabama professor accused of killing three co-workers also shooting her brother ten years ago -- was that shooting an accident? Brooke Baldwin is drilling down on that. What the retired police chief is now telling CNN, Brooke has found him. That story is next.
You're watching THE LIST. I'm Rick Sanchez, and we will be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Welcome back.
We are continuing to follow this story. We are learning today what it was like to be in the room when a professor pulled out a gun in Huntsville, Alabama, at the University of Alabama Huntsville and started to blow away her colleagues at a faculty meeting there, according to police, of course.
She is associate professor. Josephine is quoted as saying that they were about half an hour into the meeting when an army -- when Amy Bishop Anderson stood up and methodically shot each of the victims in the head. Everybody else dropped to the floor. When the gun jammed, they pushed her out of the room and barricaded the door. That is the information on how this went down. New questions are being raised now about the investigation into what happened when Anderson shot and killed her younger brother in 1986. That is part of the story that a lot of people are really curious about now. Is it possible that the violence inside of this woman and police are charging her with now actually started a long time ago in her and included the death of her own brother?
Correspondent Brooke Baldwin is in Boston. She's been digging in on this story, the incident with the brother and the Harvard professor, and let's start there today. What do we know about this woman on this day? What are the police saying?
BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, we actually just got some information, Rick, I want to pass along. CNN is just now confirming that Amy Bishop Anderson is listed under suicide watch in a Huntsville jail. That is pending daily review, but suicide watch. That is the latest in Alabama.
Let me tell you what I have gotten today in Boston. This morning I sat down with the Braintree police chief from 23 years who was in charge in 1986 when Amy Bishop Anderson shot and killed her brother. This man is John Polio, 87 years of age, retired, but he sat with me in his pajamas in his living room, because it is that important to get this message across.
You see this? This is the Massachusetts' state police report that was re-released. They ruled that the shooting in 1986 was an accident, that John Polio has taken a look at this thing and read it for the first time 48 hours ago. He says it may not have been an accident, and this is deficient. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BALDWIN: When did you first read the state police report?
JOHN POLIO, FORMER BRAINTREE POLICE CHIEF: Two days ago.
BALDWIN: And when you read it, what did you think?
POLIO: I was surprised. I was surprised at the content, and I was surprised at the thought that I had not had this in my hand in December 6, 1986.
BALDWIN: Had you had this police report in your hand in 1986, would things have been different?
POLIO: They only would be different in that I would have asked D.A. for more clarification and definition, and that in my opinion I found the report deficient.
BALDWIN: You found the report deficient?
POLIO: Yes.
BALDWIN: What specifically is deficient in the report?
POLIO: Well, many things, but basically, I would like to know a lot more about the ballistics of the weapon.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BALDWIN: So, Rick, obviously, there are still many questions. And one of the questions I had to him was, you know, should this investigation be reopened, and so far the current district attorney here in Norfolk County is saying, hey, it was ruled an accident 23 years ago and that is what the state department says, what the autopsy results said, so it is case closed.
SANCHEZ: This is the chief who investigated the case back then?
BALDWIN: He was the chief who was in charge back then, but the lead investigator on the case is state police. So it is confusing, I know, but it is the Braintree police records that are missing that is the whole other part of the story, but the state police, the lead investigator released this report and they rereleased it Sunday, and that is what Chief Polio read and said, hang on a second.
SANCHEZ: So it is starting to look like with each passing day, there is more and more information to lead many to doubt her original story. Is that a fair assessment on my part or am I jumping the gun?
BALDWIN: I think it is a fair assessment. In any major investigation such as what we saw unfold Friday, people are looking into her past. In fact, a lot of people are saying, look, was this an accident back there '86? Was it not? Had it not been, would charges have been filed? Would that have been flagged if she were applying for a job at the University of Alabama Huntsville?
But how about this -- we just learned today that the president of the University of Alabama said they did not do a background check, in fact, even though if they performed a background check, nothing would have come up because we have to say she was never charged in the '86 shooting or that 1993 bomb plot against the Harvard colleague.
SANCHEZ: Well, one can't help but think that if she had been in fact stopped in the '86 shooting, all subsequent violent charges against her may never have happened. So, that's what makes a case like this so amazingly interesting, and we thank you, Brooke, for going up there to check on it and drilling down on it for us. We will get to you tomorrow.
BALDWIN: Sure.
SANCHEZ: Meanwhile this --
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BARACK OBAMA, (D) PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: We are announcing roughly $8 billion in loan guarantees to break ground on the first new nuclear plant in our country in three decades.
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SANCHEZ: President Obama will do what many on the far left tell him not to do. He says, look, I have to. He says it is time to build more nuclear power plants in the United States. We are going to hear from both sides at the very top of the hour on this.
And he is auctioning off JFK's love letters. Is that what we are looking at there? Auctioning off JFK's love letters. Now, these are not love letters that pertain to Jackie, despite that you are looking at Jackie there. No, no, no. We are talking about a Swedish bombshell. That story is coming right up. Stay there.
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SANCHEZ: All right, here is this eerie, almost unbelievable piece of tape that I am going to share with you now. Are you ready?
Let me set it up for you. This is about a fellow named Maurice Clements. You probably have no clue who he see, certainly not by name, not that you have to memorize all of the names on TV every given day. This is the man who killed four police officers in Seattle just four days after Thanksgiving. They were drinking coffee one morning, and he busted in and shot them.
It turns out now that he basically told his wife that he would die in a hail of gunfire, which is exactly what happened. And he told her from a jailhouse telephone before he shot the police officers.
I'm about to play this for you, and I want you to listen carefully. Listen to what Maurice Clements says last October. He says "I will kill every one of those devils, and I'm not going back to prison." This was recorded by the Pierce County jail and obtained by the "Seattle Times." We're now listening to it together. Go, Rog.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is how it is going to be, this is how it is going to be. But I am not coming back, and I'm going to kiss this bullet and stay packing and live. I am put it on dot. I ain't going no more.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, put your faith in god.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I am going to put my faith in god that I am going to kill every last one of them that comes up on me. That is my faith is to kill every one of them devils.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You have 60 seconds remaining.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I ain't going no more. I am not going to have it happen, because there ain't no such thing as justice. So because there is no such thing as justice, I am going the way of the wild, wild west, and nothing working with justice. No, no, it ain't going no more.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: 60 seconds remaining.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now I'm a grown man and I am not going to have it no more. I'm going to be what they're looking for, a dangerous --.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Revealing. Career felon Maurice Clements is speaking to his wife from a jailhouse phone scarcely a month before he did what you heard him say he would do to the quote "devils" stop quote.
Here are the victims. I want to show you all four of them. Sergeant Mark Renninger, Officer Ron Owens, Tina Griswald, and Greg Richards, all exemplary officers.
And you may be wondering, could their lives have been saved? If the jail is recording the phone calls, why isn't someone listening? On that score we checked. A local prosecutor says the Pierce County jail has 1,400 inmates and there is no way to listen to and then monitor every single phone call that goes in or out. Too bad.
Who is taking swings at Mitt Romney these days? A politician? A Democrat? Someone else who wants to oppose him? No. It's a guy on a plane. And when we say taking swings, we mean taking real swings. We are going to bring you that story in a little bit.
Also this --
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(GUNFIRE)
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SANCHEZ: In just a moment, have you heard the mission that captured a top dog in the Afghan Taliban. We are talking about a guy who knows the ins and outs of those mountains where U.S. forces are operating right now.
Let me make this clearer for you. This may be the most important apprehension since 9/11 as far as the Al Qaeda and the Taliban go. Think about that.
Let me tell you something else -- it is a possibility that this person I am about to tell you about that we have now captured could lead us to Osama bin Laden, so Ayman Zawahiri, to Mullah Omar. Stay there.
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SANCHEZ: We might be a little closer now to tracking down Osama bin Laden, Ayman Zawahiri, and Mullah Omar. Think about that. The U.S. military has just captured a guy who may be able to lead us to one, two or possibly all three of those guys.
This is not guaranteed, obviously, but this Mullah Abdul Gahni Baradar, he's being called the most significant Taliban figure captured since 9/11, the most significant capture since 9/11. Think about how long we've been in Iraq and Afghanistan. One expert is telling us today that "He could be the guy who knows where senior Al Qaeda and Taliban leaders are actually hiding." That's a direct quote.
Rob Maginnis is a retired U.S. army lieutenant colonel, he's now a senior strategist for the Pentagon. Ken Robinson is former U.S. military intelligence officer with 20 years of experience in special ops. If there's two guys who can help us understand the significance of this capture, it's these two guys.
Ken, let me begin with you. How significant do you believe he is? Is this being overstated in some way?
KEN ROBINSON, FORMER MILITARY INTELLIGENCE OFFICER: No, it's not overstated. This guy is the equivalent of a general officer in operations. He's one of the key planners, key leaders. He helped radicalize the Taliban. He's aligned with Al Qaeda and understands the Arab jihadist movement and how it's been integrated into the Taliban.
And it's as significant as it was when we captured Khalid Sheikh Mohammed in that he knows operationally where people are being moved to. But his information is very perishable, probably only worth something for about 24 hours.
SANCHEZ: Only worth something for about 24 hours. Why do you say that?
ROBINSON: Because once the word gets out that the individual's captured, everyone scatters to the four winds. That's why the government kept it secret.
SANCHEZ: Robert, how much damage can we do in those 24 hours?
LT. COL. ROBERT MAGINNIS: A lot of damage, Rick. You get actionable intelligence, where people are. You can use the drones, as the administration has been good, especially in the Fatah along the border. And you can go after people in Karachi. Omar himself is believed to be in Karachi. I'm surprised we haven't grabbed him as well.
This is important, yes. We have crippled perhaps yes for a period of time this particular element of the Taliban, but keep in mind there's three major groups and a whole bunch of little franchises making it very complex.
But this guy has been in the pocket for a long time. He knows all the key players. And yes, it's quite possible he knows where in Waziristan where Osama bin Laden is hiding.
SANCHEZ: That's interesting. You mentioned something about Karachi though, and I want to pick your brain on that a little bit. You mean to tell me all this time Mullah Omar who we couldn't find and who we tried to kill at the outset of the war is Afghanistan was hiding in Karachi as well as this new mullah we picked up today? So we're looking for them in Afghanistan, they get out, we think they're hiding in the Waziristan or that mountainous region that's supposed to be so mysterious, and all the time he's in Karachi?
MAGINNIS: Omar probably was in Quetta until recently, and then maybe over went to Karachi as the heat is put on from above. With drones looking at every one of your movements and you people on the ground trying to sniff out where are the big Taliban leaders.
SANCHEZ: So he's hiding in a city?
MAGINNIS: That's right. He's undercover in a major, major city, which, by the way, is next to the Arabian Sea. And he could get away if he indeed decided to do that.
SANCHEZ: I'm curious about this, then -- if he was in Karachi and this is where we got him, how can the U.S. go in a sovereign place and get someone like this? Didn't we need to ask the Pakistanis to do this?
ROBINSON: It's through the cooperation of the Pakistani ISI, who helped create the Taliban because they wanted a buffer between themselves and --
SANCHEZ: So it's OK?
ROBINSON: This is a very delicate cooperation, because they've been active and then not active partners with us since 9/11. This is a significant partnership in this capture, as it was with Khalid Sheikh Mohammed.
SANCHEZ: We're down to a minute here, so I'll give you each about 30 seconds. Let me start with you Ken. The idea that this guy is so significant that he may be able to lead us to information that may do real seniors damage to, a, the Taliban or Al Qaeda, you believe is?
ROBINSON: Yes, simply he was the operational commander, and because he's the one deciding and picking junior leaders and placing them throughout the country, throughout Afghanistan and throughout the northwest frontier province.
He is the major player who was deciding who gets promoted, who gets budgets, who gets missions. And so for a period of time his information in his head is very valuable.
SANCHEZ: Robert Maginnis, same question.
MAGINNIS: He of course is the military commander of the area where we're engaged right now in Marjah. He has that whole area of the south part of Afghanistan. So this is absolutely critical to our interests.
Of course, it's nice to be able to go after the Taliban under Haqqani up along the eastern part of Kabul, but this is absolutely critical and it will help, I think, ongoing operations, especially in the south.
SANCHEZ: That sounds like great news. I think too many of our viewers have heard this before, we captured number two, number three, number four, number five, and almost after a while it sounds like a story that is just continued over and over again.
It's nice, and I think our viewers are encouraged to hear both of you who we both consider to be real experts on this to say this looks real, real promising this time around. We hope you are both right. We'll continue to follow it. Thanks to both of you, Colonel Maginnis and Ken Robinson. Our thanks.
Now this --
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He was engaging in administrative work that was bringing to Gaza weapons and munitions.
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SANCHEZ: Members of a hit squad coordinate their arrival to assassinate a man, and we have the surveillance video behind this secret plan. The question is, was it Israelis? Were these Israeli secret agents who were trying to kill a member of an organization? We'll be right back.
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