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Rick's List
Plane Hits Building in Texas; Iran Working on Nuclear Warhead?
Aired February 18, 2010 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
RICK SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR: Here what we are going to do.
As a matter of fact, as we get started, I want to show you exactly what we're going to be taking you through. We are going to dedicate the next two hours to something we call a special.
And here is a little open we put together for you.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ (voice-over): This is a RICK'S LIST special report: "Attack in Austin."
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yelling, look at that plane, look at that plane.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I saw something fall out of the sky and then a big fireball kind of shoot out.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The building shook. And then the roof came in. And it felt like stuff fell on top of us, all kinds of stuff fell on top of us.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I just saw a big plane.
SANCHEZ: An intentional attack on a government building. Who is this pilot? Why did he do it?
This is a RICK'S LIST special report. "Attack in Austin" starts right now.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ: Hi, everybody. I'm Rick Sanchez. I'm going to take you through these stories very carefully.
But, as we do, I want to tell you to know that we have pulled a lot of brand-new information regarding this suicide note that we told you about earlier. I'm also going to be taking you through some of the sounds and sights of this incident as it happened, when this man chose to take his plane after burning his house and flying it directly into this building.
This story has been developing over the last several hours. And as the information comes into us, we're going to be sharing it with you, but I understand that many of you have just now been getting home from work and don't know the details of the story.
Apologizing for sounding repetitive from time to time, for those of you who do know this story. We will be dipping back in, taking you back to instances of exactly what happened and how it happened, so that you can see the actuality tapes, the reports as they were being filed earlier today by some of the correspondents there on the scene as some of this information first came in.
I have something else now that I have to share with you. This is breaking news that CNN has now confirmed. After all the information that we have been sharing with you, and this is totally different from what is going on right now in Austin, Texas, but I have just been handed a -- I have just been handed a piece of paper which is somewhat ominous to report.
CNN is now confirming that Iran may be working on a nuclear warhead. Iran may be currently working on secretly developing a nuclear warhead for a missile. This is -- remember, earlier this week, I reported to you that Ahmadinejad had said that? And, shortly after that, I then played for you sound from Robert Gibbs at the White House, who essentially disregarded this boast by Ahmadinejad? And the story stayed pretty much where it was, though, at the time, there was a lot of rhetoric and a lot of questions both here and internationally as to exactly what Iran had.
Let me continue reading this to you, because I think some Americans might find this somewhat alarming. It is the first time that the United States nuclear watchdog agency, the IAEA, has issued such a warning about current Iranian nuclear activities.
This statement comes about as a draft report obtained by CNN. This report is being dated Thursday, has not yet been approved by the board of governors of the International Atomic International Agency.
So, again, the lead here is that Iran may currently be working on a -- secretly developing a nuclear warhead for a missile. Now, think about that, a nuclear warhead for a missile. It is one thing to have nuclear capabilities. It is quite another to be able to use that nuclear capability to put it on a warhead and then use it on a missile.
And, obviously, that's the concern that strikes fear in the hearts of many throughout the Middle East and, of course, one of their neighbors, the Israelis who have threatened in the past that they would take action among themselves, if they so have to.
Let me tell you what we are doing. We are trying to work with our correspondents on this story to bring you the very latest information, so we can very cogently and very somberly -- and very soberly, I should say, bring you whatever new details and whatever perspective and analysis you need to know on this story. So, expect that to happen in just a little bit.
I am looking over here to the right and I'm seeing our international desk, and they are working the story, and they are going to be picking up the phones and seeing what they can do to relate whatever we have on that.
So, again, one more time, before we go back to the story in Austin, Iran may currently be working on secretly developing a nuclear warhead for a missile -- key words there, for a missile. That's according to IAEA general director.
Do you have something for me? I have got something else coming in I want to share with you right now. Apparently, there is more wire that we can report on this. "The United States and its allies fear that Iran aims to develop the capacity to build the nuclear bomb. Iran is denying it, saying its nuclear program is designed to produce civilian energy and for medical use."
Let me just read down here to see: "When inspectors arrived at the Natanz nuclear plant the following day, this is February 10, they were informed that Iran had already begun to feed the low-enriched uranium into the enrichment machinery the previous evening."
So apparently there is a narrative that goes with this story. I'm going to tell you that we hope to be able to get more information from folks inside the IAEA, which is obviously the agency that is handling this and that is releasing this information.
And, as we do, I'm going to be sharing it with you throughout this newscast.
Now, Angie, let me know as soon as we have someone that we can break down on that information.
And, in the meantime, I want to take you back to some of the first sights and sounds, some of the first sights and sounds today, when we heard reports that in fact a plane had crashed into a building. At the time, we didn't know what the motive was. We didn't know if it was an accident. We didn't know it was a person.
These are some the very first pictures that came in. Now, as the story developed -- and I want to take you back now, especially if you are just getting home -- this is a KXAN report. This is a KXAN report. It is one of our CNN affiliates.
It's 06570029, Roger, if you want to play that. Let's pick up the sound and listen to this, how -- how this thing unfolded.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I will take it. Jeanne Meserve. Jeanne Meserve.
SANCHEZ: Oh, we don't have that one? All right.
Let's do this then. Let's go to Jeanne Meserve. Do we have her live or -- no?
Let's go the Jeanne Meserve. She's standing by now to bring us more information.
I apologize for that, Rog. I thought you had that number.
Jeanne, what are you bringing to us now?
JEANNE MESERVE, CNN HOMELAND SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Rick, a couple of new pieces of information.
We have been talking a lot about that manifesto that this individual, Joseph Andrew Stack, had written and it was posted on the Web. If you go to Web site now, you will not find it. Instead, you find a message that reads, this Web site has been taken offline due to the sensitive nature of the events that transpired in Texas this morning and in compliance with a request from the FBI. Regards, T35 Hosting."
So, no longer online. The second development is this. We have talked to a couple of people at the Georgetown Airport in Texas. That is the airport from which that airplane took off this morning. And we are told by two people there that the airport has been evacuated and that authorities are going through it, apparently looking for explosives, looking at the hangar, for instance.
They are also looking at the car that Joseph Andrew Stack left at that airport, also apparently looking for explosives. Now, we don't know if there is any specific information that leads them to do that. I can tell you that we have seen authorities do this in other similar circumstances.
You will remember a story several months ago of a young man who stole a plane in Canada and flew it south into the United States. While he was in the air, while he was coming south after they had identified him, they did this same thing. They went to his car. They checked it to make sure there was nothing dangerous there.
So, this may be simply a pro forma exercise, but we wanted to let you know it was happening, Rick.
SANCHEZ: Take our viewers through what the reaction was from Washington when they first got this report, because I understand that they did in fact scramble some jets, did they not, Jeanne?
MESERVE: Yes, a couple of jets were scrambled out of Texas simply as a precautionary measure.
You know as well as I know and everyone in this audience knows, it is a nervous time. There is a constant worry about terrorism. And nobody knew at the beginning what was going on here.
So, out of an abundance of caution, NORAD launched those two jets into the air. But, in fairly quick order, the Department of Homeland Security issued a press release, a statement, saying that they did not believe that there was any nexus to terrorism or to criminal activity.
They later amended that to just say no nexus to terrorism, because more information had come to light about Stack and his activities, namely that he had apparently lit a house on fire before he got into that airplane.
SANCHEZ: Is there any doubt at this point that he targeted that specific building because that building housed 199 personnel with the IRS?
MESERVE: Nobody who I have talked to, Rick, has said that he targeted that building. Nobody has said that.
But this is what we know. We do know that there were 190 IRS employees in the building. We do know that he had a gripe with the IRS. There are connections that one might logically make, but no one in official Washington has made that connection to me.
SANCHEZ: At this point, the fact that that suicide note came in and was so detailed and was so direct in his criticism of the IRS, do most of the federal officials that you have spoken to inside the government, specifically with the FBI, feel fairly certain that in fact he had an agenda to be both anti-government and specifically anti-IRS?
MESERVE: Rick, they are not going down that avenue yet. This is an investigation that is still very much under way. They are simply not commenting at this point in time. We will keep after them.
SANCHEZ: Jeanne Meserve doing yeoman's work today. She was one of the very first to report to us exactly what was going on.
We're going to take a short break. And then there is a lot of tape that I want to share with you. I also want to get you caught up on this new development I shared with you moments ago about exactly what is going on with Iran.
As we go to break, I want you to listen to this. This is one of the reporters with KXAN. He was one of the first to get to the scene right after the impact, after the plane had crashed into the building. At the time, there was uncertainty as to exactly what had happened there. Watch the report. We will go into the break, and we will see you on the other side.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAVID SCOTT, KXAN REPORTER: Got here about 9:15, house fully engulfed. Eventually the roof collapsed.
We are told that a neighbor vaulted a fence, went into the house, and rescued the woman, Sheryl Stack, a musician here in Austin, and her 12-year-old daughter. They were taken down the street to some neighbor friends, we are told.
They are in safe keeping right now. No word on where the husband may be, but we have been told by multiple sources he is a software engineer named Joseph Andrew Stack. He is a pilot that has a small plane and that he flies out of Georgetown.
It is possible, it is being speculated at this hour that that Joseph Stack could have been the man at that plane's control flying out of Georgetown. We cannot confirm that from here, but we do know he was a pilot and he flew out of the airport where that plane did go from.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Welcome back.
It is a devastating story that we are following out of Austin after we were all surprised to see a fire in a building, and we all wondered, how is it possible that a plane could hit the middle of a building? It is almost like it had to intentionally try and hit that building.
Then, shortly after that, we learned that it might possibly be a government building. Then, shortly after that, we learned that a man had just set his own home on fire not too far from this location and that he was then flying a plane.
And then officials started putting the story together that it certainly appeared like this man who had burned his own home had decided to fly his plane directly into right smack dab middle of this building. And, suddenly, the story is all coming together.
Shall I also add that in fact he seemed to have left a suicide note that we at CNN confirmed after checking a Web site that was administered by him, parts of which I will read to you throughout this newscast.
But let me catch you up on something else, before I do anything else. I am told now by my executive producer that any moment we will be able to take you to some of our correspondents who are nailing down this sudden threat that seems to be coming from Iran.
And let me read that to you one more time as I go through -- here it is -- as I go through that information. I just want to keep you updated on this, because this is a story we alluded to earlier this week here when Ahmadinejad had made the threat, but, as I said, and I don't know if you heard me earlier -- welcome to those who are joining us now -- it was somewhat disregarded by the White House, by Robert Gibbs, when he said Ahmadinejad says a lot of things that are not necessarily true or something to that effect.
Well, listen to what is going on now, and this is from the Atomic Agency, the IAEA. "Iran may currently be working on secretly developing a nuclear warhead for a missile." I will read that to you again. It is the last couple of words that may be the most significant in this. "Iran may be currently working on secretly developing a nuclear warhead for a missile."
Now, this is the kind of thing that has been bantered about in the past. And at times we have reported it and at times we have stayed away from it. The fact it is coming from an IAEA official, in fact, the director general, in a draft report is what makes this particular salient at this point in time.
So, we are going to be all over this. Matthew Chance is standing by. I'm going to join him in just a little bit. I am also going to check with some of our folks at the international desk to bring us up to date on what is going on.
In the meantime, I want to bring in two other experts, as we show you the video of this plane crash, or intentional plane crash is what it seems to be, you see just how devastated this building is.
It's almost miraculous at this point, folks, that there was only one point -- one person -- pardon me -- accounted for. Right, Brooke? One person unaccounted for, two taken to the hospital.
(CROSSTALK)
BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: ... taken to the hospital.
SANCHEZ: You look at this. Does look to you like something where, if it was full, it was a business time, right? It happened around 10:00 a.m., 10:00 a.m. Austin time.
BALDWIN: Right.
SANCHEZ: That means that it was -- be a time when everybody was in the building. We know it was filled with government employees, among them 190 IRS workers.
And yet the plane hit, and, through, I don't know, the mercy of God perhaps, most of the folks there were spared.
I got two experts. I got Greg Feith, former NTSB. I got Lou Palumbo, our -- one of our security contributors, who is joining us as well.
Greg, let me begin with you.
Can you explain to viewers how it is that this plane seemed to do so much damage, and yet there was so little loss of life?
GREG FEITH, FORMER SENIOR AIR SAFETY INVESTIGATOR, NATIONAL TRANSPORTATION SAFETY BOARD: Well, right now, Rick, it is hard to tell just from looking at the pictures.
The airplane of its size -- it is about a 2,000-pound airplane -- it carries around 40 gallons of aviation fuel. And, so, when the pilot crashed the airplane into the building, of course, speed is going to help facilitate how far into the building the wreckage actually got and how far the fuel was able to penetrate into the building.
So, I think that is going to be one aspect that the investigators are going to look at. But then two is to determine if this pilot may have carried some sort of additional accelerant or explosive that could have helped facilitate the extent of the fire that eventually consumed a good portion of this building.
SANCHEZ: Well, what is your guess, as an expert, as somebody who has investigated countless crashes and accidents going back to the times you I worked together back in South Florida in the 1980s? What is your guess? FEITH: Rick, I would think that, you know, 40 gallons of aviation fuel, while, if it does come out of the wings, it is going to spread over a large area, but looking at the pictures and seeing the extent of the fire that's consumed, you know, more than just where the airplane hit, I would think that there was probably some sort of additional type fuel source or accelerant on the airplane, but, again...
SANCHEZ: No, I understand.
FEITH: ... that is a lot of speculation on my part, but that it is a pretty extensive fire for the airplane to have struck where it struck and then have the building around the sides catch fire as well.
SANCHEZ: Well, and here is the difference though, Greg. When I speculate, it is foolish, because I'm not an expert and I don't know about these things. When you speculate, as someone who has investigated so many of these things, I think it is helpful for the viewer and it provides some context. So, we thank you for that.
FEITH: Sure.
SANCHEZ: Let me bring in another expert, Lou Palumbo.
Lou, I am reading from this -- one of the guys on the staff, Dave Johnson (ph), came up with this suicide note, and then the folks behind me here at CNN were able to nail it down.
Listen to these guy's words, and then you tell me what you think.
"There is a storm raging in my head. Desperate times call for desperate measures. Remember, one of these was no taxation without representation when we were further brainwashed to believe that there is any kind of freedom in this place."
It rants somewhat. It is very specific. It's very anti- government, not particularly to one ideology or the other. And it seems to be very much aimed at the IRS.
Concludes with: "Well, Mr. Big Brother IRS man, let's try something different. Take my pound of flesh and sleep well."
This was a guy on a mission, wasn't he?
LOU PALUMBO, FORMER NEW YORK POLICE OFFICER: Yes, I would say so. And I think this was an individual that apparently had a severe level of emotional dysfunction.
Rick, very seldom do I contradict things that you speak to or your points of view, but I don't think we should automatically eliminate this as being a domestic terrorism act, because perhaps many of the characteristics that are attached to this act are similar to those with McVeigh in the Murrah Building in Oklahoma City, disdain for the government, distrust.
I believe that McVeigh was also a little emotionally distressed as well. And I think that it is just a bit premature. And there must be an agenda behind not wanting to attach the word terrorism to it, but I don't quite see how people are taking that position at this crossroad.
SANCHEZ: Well, you are right. And we, as a television network, choose to not be alarmists. We are very careful about the use of our words. I don't think we are saying that there is not a possibility that this might turn into terrorism at some point.
I just am a little careful to just throw that word out. If it is -- let me ask you this question, because I think maybe from a semantic standpoint, this may kind of nail it down a little bit better. If it turns out that it was him and him alone, that he spoke with no one, that he planned this with no one, that there's absolutely no sign of any conspiracy, would you then be less apt to use the word terrorism, as a law enforcement guy?
PALUMBO: No, absolutely not.
The difference is this. If you and I discussed carrying out an act of this nature, it becomes conspiracy. If an individual just decides to do this on his own -- and, unfortunately, the focal point of his hostility and disdain were directed towards a governmental institution. Obviously, based on the letter, he had issues at home as well, which kind of fueled the fire.
He was in extreme levels of desperation, anxiety, frustration. And we are probably, in the next days to come, going to see forensic psychiatrists and maybe even psycholinguistic specialists review the material that he wrote.
But I don't think that the fact that he may have concocted this plot by himself diminishes that it is a terrorist incident. And I am sensitive as well and I do respect your position on not wanting to cause alarm, but I do want to say one other thing to you, Rick.
If this individual had done this in Iraq, we would be calling him a suicide bomber.
SANCHEZ: Yes, we would. Yes, we...
PALUMBO: And that would be a terrorist act.
SANCHEZ: Yes. No, no, you know, you make a good point there, Lou.
Mr. Feith, before I let you go -- or, in fact, think about this, because I think we have got to get a break in. But I'm trying to -- I'm trying to get a handle on, and I think the viewers are, too, as they look at this case, as to exactly what it is that this -- that we can do to stop this kind of thing, if anything.
You are the aviation expert. I understand he didn't even file a flight plan is the latest report that we heard. It is scary to think that anybody can get a plane and do this in a building. Is there -- and I have got to get a break, so don't give me the answer yet, but is there anything that we can do to help stop this from happening in the future?
We are all over this story, folks. I'm Rick Sanchez. This is THE LIST. This is a special report, and we're going to continue on the other side.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Welcome back. I'm Rick Sanchez.
We have got an awful lot going on. First of all, we are following the situation in Austin, where a man apparently has committed suicide by driving a plane right into the middle of a building in Austin that housed many IRS workers.
The good news is there that only one person is unaccounted for and two were taken to the hospital. We are all over that.
And I am getting back to Greg Feith in just a little bit on the issue of safety. How do we, as Americans, protect ourselves against something like this. Is it even possible to protect ourselves?
But the other big story we are following right now is going on in Iran. Let me show you our international desk. These are the folks who have been getting this information and putting it together. We're usually very careful about what we report on Iran. These are the folks who are in contact with all our bureaus in Cairo and Jordan and the parts of the Middle -- other parts of the Middle East.
And they are working the information. The information is that we can report that Iran may be currently working on secretly developing a nuclear warhead for a missile. And this is coming, CNN has confirmed, from IAEA director general, which is what makes it important in this case.
Brooke Baldwin has got an update.
Apparently, there's more information coming in?
BALDWIN: So, we're getting some information. This is the first report from IAEA since the discovery of this secret nuclear facility.
So, I just want to read you -- this is from a State Department briefing, Assistant Secretary P.J. Crowley. I'm going to read it for you.
He said: "There is no explanation for that facility that is consistent with the needs of a civilian nuclear program. And it characterizes the way in which Iran has conducted its relations with the IAEA and its failure to satisfactorily explain, you know, what its activities and ambitions are in the nuclear sphere," saying the conclusions of the report, they are consistent with arguments Secretary of State Hillary Clinton made in the Middle East during her visit this week.
Of course, going on, they have ongoing concerns as to the activities in Iran. (CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: Let's read this together again.
What this does is, it puts in perspective something that the Obama administration had all but downgraded as a possibility earlier in the week.
BALDWIN: Mm-hmm.
SANCHEZ: So, now we have Crowley -- and Crowley is assistant secretary of state, right? So, what we have is the State Department now weighing in, saying that there is reason to believe that Iran has some explaining to do here, right?
BALDWIN: This is not consistent with a civilian nuclear program. That is the major difference.
SANCHEZ: Right. And that is very important.
BALDWIN: Right.
SANCHEZ: You know, the Obama administration just signed off on 22 more civilian nuclear -- to create energy in the United States over the next 20 years, including one in northeast Georgia. Those are some of the things that we have been talking about here in our own country.
(CROSSTALK)
BALDWIN: But there is a major difference between a civilian program and possibly this nuclear warhead.
SANCHEZ: Well, or being able to arm or use a nuclear warhead to move some kind of missile from one place to another.
BALDWIN: Right.
SANCHEZ: That is what is key here. And that is what I am reading from what you just said that the administration is now considering, something that we should point out they weren't considering earlier in the week. They were saying that Ahmadinejad was exaggerating.
BALDWIN: And they can't explain why they refuse the come to the table and engage to answer some of these questions that folks have.
SANCHEZ: That is what we want to break down.
When we come back, hopefully, we will be able to talk to our guests regarding the situation in Austin. I want Greg Feith to answer that question that I posed a little while ago.
Mr. Feith, I apologize, but we have got two stories that are developing at the very same time, so we will get back to you in just a little bit. And we will take a short break, and we will come back with more information out of Austin. And will be checking in with Matthew Chance, one of our correspondents, standing by on this Iran story.
I'm Rick Sanchez. We will be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Welcome back. I'm Rick Sanchez.
This incident happened at 10:00 Austin time in Texas. And we now have somebody on the phone who is able to take us through it. He is one of the eyewitnesses who may have seen what happened when this plane -- there is some of to original pictures we got this morning. We were scratching our heads trying to figure out what had happened when the report came in that a plane had gone into the building.
And then when we saw exactly where in the building it was, we started wondering whether this was intentional. After all, what are the chances? It is one thing to have a plane clip a building, but quite another for it to hit it right smack dab in the middle.
Mike Ernest is good enough to join us. Are you there, sir?
MIKE ERNEST, CNN IREPORTER (via telephone): I am here, Rick.
SANCHEZ: Take me through what you saw.
ERNEST: Well, actually I was outside and getting my oil changed right across the highway from the building that was hit. I heard a plane and looked to my left and saw one that was flying really low. I just followed it, and it seemed to be turning right and then straightened out right before it hit the middle part of the building.
SANCHEZ: Do you remember on 9/11 when the planes hit the World Trade Center you could actually tell they were aiming for it, because they came in as you described it, in fact I thought about it as you said it, that they banked and then zeroed in it on it. Is that what it seemed like to you?
ERNEST: Yes, very similar to that. I mean, it made a big turn to its right, and then seemed to -- yes, seemed to aim at the building and straighten out, and then at the very end, it did seem like it sped up right before it hit the building.
SANCHEZ: And just to be clear, you didn't hear sputtering sounds or anything that would lead you to believe that maybe the plane was having some kind of problems, right?
ERNEST: Not at all. Nothing seemed to be wrong with the plane, except for the fact that it was flying very low.
SANCHEZ: Do you have any explanation for why it is that given the huge size of that explosion there is only one person unaccounted for, and two people -- I mean, was everybody on the 10:00 coffee break or something? ERNEST: Well, I was about to say the same thing. After seeing the size of the explosion and how big the fire was, I honestly have no idea that -- I mean, it is a blessing that only one person is unaccounted for, because it is really did seem like it could have been a lot worse.
SANCHEZ: Mike Ernest witnessed this accident. By the way, I am curious -- has the FBI or the AFT, or the NTSB, pardon me, contacted you yet for an interview or information?
ERNEST: No, nobody other than CNN has contacted me yet.
SANCHEZ: That is interesting. How many other people besides you saw this, then?
ERNEST: Nobody was outside with me when it actually hit, but once you could hear the explosion, people ran outside and there was a coffee shop next door and a Best Buy, I believe a Crate and Barrel, and everybody seemed to come outside to look, and a few people were crying after the building was in flames. You know, people were screaming. It was quite a scene.
SANCHEZ: You say crying, huh?
ERNEST: Yes, a few women were crying.
SANCHEZ: Take us through that. How soon after the accident did you see people pouring out of the building?
ERNEST: Within a few seconds. I mean, it was a very loud explosion. A big fireball, like you said, similar to, a smaller scale obviously, similar to what happened on 9/11, but it had the fireball effect.
And the plane, you know, the plane -- I couldn't see the plane at all once it hit the building. I mean, it was in the building.
SANCHEZ: Really, the plane just sort of disappeared into the building?
ERNEST: Exactly -- after the explosion, yes.
SANCHEZ: I know you can't tell me how fast the plane was going in terms of breaking down the speed, but you know on a scale of one to 10, one being as slow as the plane can go and 10 being the fastest the plane can go, how would you characterize the velocity of the plane?
ERNEST: It did definitely seem like it was going faster than normal for a plane being that low to the ground. I would say maybe an eight or nine. It did seem like it sped up there towards the end.
SANCHEZ: By the way, given that I asked you all of these questions, and it seems that you have some very pertinent information that law enforcement officials could use, you wouldn't have a problem with them contacting you or using your information, would you?
ERNEST: No, not at all.
SANCHEZ: OK. That is kind of important to know. My thanks to you, Mike Earnest. I'm sorry, was something that you wanted to add?
ERNEST: No, sorry.
SANCHEZ: Well, I will tell you, what a story you take us through and unbelievable to see as that plane went, and sounds like to me, Brooke, after listening to story, and sounds like an earnest guy, Mike Ernest.
BALDWIN: It is amazing to me. We have reported there were some 190 IRS employees inside of the building.
SANCHEZ: And others. Those are just IRS employees.
BALDWIN: And then there were others.
SANCHEZ: It wasn't just an IRS building, it was a building with a lot of IRS offices.
BALDWIN: It is amazing to me to think, and I guess he saw some of them leaving the building, that two, two were taken to the hospital and one is unaccounted for.
SANCHEZ: That is it.
BALDWIN: That's amazing given the damage we have seen. And you ask the question, you know, how much fuel would have been in that plane to really create that explosion. It is beyond me. It is beyond me.
SANCHEZ: Let's take a little break, and we will be back with more information. We are working on developments on the Iran story as well as the situation that's going on there in Austin as well. Imagine what a difficult situation it was for some of the folks who live in Austin trying to get around and didn't know exactly what was going on.
This is "The List," and it continues with Rick Sanchez with this special coverage of an attack in Austin.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Brooke Baldwin is going to be joining us now, and believe it or not, there was another incident today that when it was first was reported it was little bit alarming to most people, because it was coming about in conjunction with the initial reports on what was going on in Austin.
BALDWIN: Right, so in the midst essentially of everything happening in Texas, we heard about what had happened in Salt Lake City. So you have this plane, this United plane which took off in Denver and headed to San Francisco, but it was diverted to Salt Lake City after this threatening letter was found on board. So you have 168 passengers, six crew members, they got off the plane, and investigators, and you see some of those canines checking the plane after the passengers were taken off. But I want you to first listen to how this airport spokeswoman described what happened.
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BARBARA GANN, PR, SALT LAKE CITY DEPARTMENT OF AIRPORTS: The flight attendant found it. I don't have that information right now. It was a note threatening enough to cause them to divert.
The plane is held in an area safe and away from anything, and then it will be inspected with our bomb explosive detection teams, our dogs and our robot and our EOD, explosive ordnance detection teams.
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BALDWIN: So this story is still happening right now, again, the plane is being searched at the runway. They took it away from the main terminal. You saw the dogs, and they had, as she mentioned, some robots.
SANCHEZ: It was going from --
BALDWIN: It was going from Denver to San Francisco, diverted to Salt Lake. So what they had to do was to take all 168 passengers off of the plane, and take them, essentially herding them into the international terminal, and rescreening them. So they rescreened them.
And you see the bags out -- they had to take a close look at the bags, and that process is on going with the FBI involved in this one happening in Salt Lake City.
SANCHEZ: Hold on. We have new information coming in, and no, it is not Austin, Iran, or the story you are telling me. It's the story you and I have been talking about for the last week. This is brand new video coming into us now, video of those eight Americans -- remember the eight Americans being held in Haiti?
They finally got to the United States yesterday, well, they got to my hometown, Miami, and I guess it's part of the United States. But now I understand that they are leaving Miami and going back to parts beyond, places like Texas where some of them are from. Remember, the church is based in Idaho.
BALDWIN: Correct.
SANCHEZ: And it's a mission church, so there are other Americans from different parts of the country. Is there sound? Hey, let's see if we can dip into this, Roger.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That we don't know yet.
QUESTION: Have they discussed they would like to go back to Haiti?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, I have not discussed that with them, and they probably have not had an opportunity to, either.
QUESTION: Have they said anything to you or your clients that they are sorry this happened or being jailed for a period of two or so weeks was worth what they were originally trying to go down there for?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, this is what I can say. These four gentlemen went down on a humanitarian effort.
"We are deeply grateful to god for our safe return home. Our faith has sustained us through this ordeal as have the many thousands of prayers that have been offered on our behalf. We are profoundly grateful for all of those who have prayed for our safe return and to the many who we may never meet in person who have worked tirelessly for our return.
We are especially thankful to our wives and to our mother who have borne this all with stead fastness and grace.
We hope and pray that our release will allow everyone to once again focus on the dire conditions that continue to exist in Haiti. People are still suffering there, and they continue to lack basic necessities. We would urge everyone to find it in their hearts to continue to look for ways to give to those in need."
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SANCHEZ: Unbelievable. This story just developed. Let's bring you up to date on what is going on right now.
Those are the eight that have been allowed to leave because it has been presumed at this point they are warranted bail based on the fact that they weren't the organizers of this effort to go into Haiti and take children out of the country in defiance of Haitian law. In fact, it has been classified as trafficking.
These eight, though, went along as volunteers to help the original two organizers who were putting this whole plan together. So as a result yesterday, a judge decided that they would be allowed to return to the United States. However, they must go back to Haiti if another judge now comes in and decides that they will in fact be prosecuted.
That is where it stands right now. They were in Miami yesterday, and I am not quite sure where this is coming from. I am looking at the affiliate. This is in Kansas City, so we don't know all eight of them, but certainly a whole bunch of them flown into Kansas City now where they will go the parts beyond and eventually make their way home.
They have not given any statements themselves yet. They have been talking for the most part through lawyers. We should mention, and this is where I will bring Brooke back in, the other two that remain behind bars, their case is far different. BALDWIN: That is Laura Silsby, and Charissa Coulter. She was the nanny and the core organizer.
SANCHEZ: Those are the ones who are still in Haiti.
BALDWIN: Correct. So according to a lawyer, they were two that went to Haiti prior to the earthquake, and so that is one of the reasons why they are still in Haiti. They have allowed the other eight to go, and as you mentioned, we are still waiting for a judge to see if they will prosecute.
But all ten still face child kidnapping charges and criminal association charges, but they are still keeping those two, the leader of the group and the assistance, if you will, in Port-au-Prince.
SANCHEZ: No bail, as they say, at least not now.
BALDWIN: Correct.
SANCHEZ: We will be all over that story. It surprised us. We expected movement on it, but I had no idea that video would come in. I'm glad we were able to share it with you.
We still have Lou Palumbo standing by and the question of what are the chances that what happened in Austin today can happen in other parts of the country? It is a reasonable question, and I will ask him that on the other side.
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JERRY CULLEN, EYEWITNESS: I was standing, locking my truck, and I heard a lot of airplane noise. They make a whooshing noise. And I heard the engine.
I looked up and there is a Cherokee 140, a blue and white and single-engine airplane. I used to teach flying, and it is a safe airplane. They have been used for over 30 years, and people learn to fly in them all of the time. Families use them.
It shot right across the light and right across the highway and went right into the building directly, exploded into a fireball. The fireball was probably 50 feet each side of the impact. It shook me and the people from the restaurant said it shook the whole building I found out later, and then the windows began to fly out of the building. There must have been a lot of shock inside, shockwave.
The windows blew out, and there was pink insulation pads flying all around. Imagine this. Then the venetian blinds start to wave out and go out with the shockwave. And then the fire started curling up the first floor and the second floor. Then the fire guys arrived. They were here in what seemed like minutes.
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SANCHEZ: It's amazing to hear people tell the story as it happened. We watched it unfold throughout the course of the day.
And it turns out like it was a grudge that was being held by one very angry American man who, according to reports seems to have burned his house, and then gotten into a plane filled with fuel and flown the plane into a government building in Austin, or at least a building that had many government offices in it, including 190 offices or personnel for the IRS which seemed to be the consternation or the cause of his anger, so says a suicide note that we found that we have read to you.
I will read you other portions of the suicide note as we go on, but he was very much anti-government, and very much anti-IRS. As developments in the story come in, I will share them with you.
But in the meantime, let me get you back to the Iran story. I reported to you a little while ago that CNN could now say that it does appear that Iran is building some kind of, maybe building a nuclear weapon that will allow them to use nukes on missiles.
And that is important, because that is the report that they are getting from the atomic energy agency or the AIEA. It is an important story if nothing else, because it counters some of the information that we were hearing earlier.
But to put this in perspective I want to bring in Jim Walsh now who is our -- one of our experts on this. He filed this just a little while ago, some notes on this, and I'm interested to get his take. Jim Walsh, are you there?
JIM WALSH, M.I.T.: I am. Good to be with you.
SANCHEZ: Would you be good enough to take us through why -- because our viewers heard this kind of thing in the past. Why is this one so significant, do you believe, or is it?
WALSH: I think it is significant. Of all the IAEA reports on Iran, especially in the last couple of years, this is the longest, most critical and the most eye-opening.
Maybe that reflects fact this we have a new head of IAEA. Maybe it is the agency is really ticked at Iran because they started enriching 20 percent and didn't follow the rules in doing that.
But in any case, what you have in this report is the -- really, the all this statement that Iran may have engaged in nuclear weapons related work in the past, and even more surprisingly, it holds open the possibility of undisclosed activities may be happening now. They never said that before and they said it today.
SANCHEZ: All right, there is a difference between enriching uranium for the purposes of creating energy for your country and enriching uranium to secretly develop a nuclear warhead for a missile, which is what the report states that Iran may be doing.
Take our viewers through that significance and how they are able to somehow nail that down since they didn't seem to be able to nail that down earlier this week or last month.
WALSH: Yes. And I want to emphasize here the agency is not saying. It isn't concluding Iran is currently looking upon a nuclear weapon --
SANCHEZ: "May currently."
WALSH: It says it may be working on this. And its main complaint is that Iran is not allowing it to see facilities, to see records, to interview people that would allow them to settle this one way or another.
SANCHEZ: Let me just ask you the question I think a lot of our viewers are asking themselves. Look, if they want to have a nuclear plan so they could provide energy for their citizens, I can't imagine we would have a problem with that. They have the right to do so.
How do we know the difference between energy that they are creating for that purpose or energy that they may be -- or uranium that they may be enriching for something much more devious?
WALSH: Well, this also relates directly to your previous question. Most countries that have nuclear power, they buy the low enriched fuel they need and run the -- run that fuel in their nuclear power plants.
A handful of countries actually own the enrichment technology themselves. And unfortunately, when you enrich to make fuel for reactor, it is precisely, exactly the same technology you keep running the fuel through again and again becomes concentrated enough it can be used in a nuclear weapon. That's highly enriched uranium. So the one technology that gets you both.
And the only way that you can have confidence that it is not going to be misused is if you are open and transparent and let the agency do what they want to do or you have foreigners who are, you know, there working at the plant and part of an international staff. That's not what we have now.
And, in fact the agency is complaining it hasn't been through the air reactor and hasn't gotten answers to the questions. And of course, most recently this 20 pest enrichment threshold across without really crossing the Ts and dotting the Is. So there's very little confidence right now. That's the problem.
SANCHEZ: For those of you joining us now, there seems to be a report it is not certain but does seem to suggest that Iran may, in fact, be working on secretly developing a nuclear warhead for a missile. And that's coming from the director general of the IAEA.
I'm left to wonder, Jim Walsh, who joining us, who's an expert on these things, that means then that when Ahmadinejad was bragging or boasting about this, he wasn't bragging or boasting earlier this week, right? WALSH: My guess is he wasn't referring to this. This is, you know -- Iran has denied all along that they have interests in nuclear weapons. They say they don't need them or want them. And most of the evidence that has been sitting around now at the agency in Vienna really relates to past activities. And this is information that the U.S. intelligence community has --
SANCHEZ: Let me ask you this final question.
WALSH: Sure.
SANCHEZ: What is the level of concern that -- let me ask you from two perspectives. As an American, how concerned should I be? What should I expect my government to do? And as an Israeli, how concerned should I be and what would I expect my government to do?
WALSH: Well, let me -- I'm going to answer for both and make it simple.
The answer is that Iran is not close to having a nuclear weapon. You can't have a nuclear weapon unless you have enriched uranium. They don't have any yet. No one thinks that they really do. But they are progressively getting closer to that.
And the fact that they aren't more forthcoming and now the agency is saying that makes this an urgent matter and makes it -- it raises the stakes. So I think that the tension is building on this one.
It doesn't mean we have a crisis. It doesn't mean they are a nuclear weapons state. Nothing will change in the year or some period of time. But things are starting to escalate politically, and this next several months will be a very difficult time.
SANCHEZ: Interesting interview and good information. We thank you, Jim Walsh, for taking us through that. We appreciate it.
As we go to break, I want you to listen to what was said a little while ago by one of the deputy secretaries of the State Department regarding this matter that we were just speaking about. I will see you on the other side.
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PHILIP CROWLEY, ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF STATE FOR PUBLIC AFFAIRS: There's no explanation for that facility that's consistent with the needs of a civilian nuclear program. And it characterize it is way in which Iran has conducted its relations with the IAEA and its failure to satisfactorily explain what its activities and ambitions are in the nuclear sphere.
We have ongoing concerns about Iran's activities. We cannot explain why it refuses to come to the table and engage constructively to answer the questions that have been raised, and you have to draw some conclusions from that.
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