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Rick's List
Interview With Democratic National Committee Chairman Tim Kaine; Clash of Conservatives
Aired February 22, 2010 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
RICK SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome back. I'm Rick Sanchez.
If you have diabetes or know someone who has diabetes, this is a story that you're going to need to listen to. This is a story about a drug company that may have known that its particular diabetes pill was giving people heart attacks, maybe as many as 500 people a month. And yet, it continued to sell it.
That is what's being investigated, that's what we're going to explain to you, and most obviously, we're going to be telling you exactly what that drug is.
Here's what else we'll have coming up for you.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ (voice-over): Here's what's making THE LIST --
GLENN BECK, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: Hello, may name is the Republican Party and I've got a problem. I'm addicted to spending and big government.
SANCHEZ: Glenn Beck getting their attention at CPAC.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They are so desperate that it is unbelievable.
SANCHEZ: The president puts out a health care plan, but Republicans still don't like it.
And joining me, Democratic Party Chairman Tim Kaine on why our government seems broken.
The lists you need to know about. Who's "Today's Most Intriguing Person"? Who's on "The List You Don't Want To Be On"? You will find out as our national conversation on Twitter, on the air continues.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ: Hello again, everybody. I'm Rick Sanchez.
There's a whole bevy of stuff that we're going to be getting to. There's new information coming out of Afghanistan. We are going to tell you about what some of the commanders are saying there.
And there's also a story that we're going to bring you about someone who may have tried to blow up several subways in New York City who's now coming forward and saying, I admit that's exactly what I tried to do. He's an Afghan terrorist suspect. How is the Obama administration going to deal with this one now? We're going to bring you all of those details.
But, in the meantime, I have got to bring you this story, because it seems to be what everybody is talking about inside and outside of Washington. Is there a possibility, is there a possibility that new life is being breathed into the health care reform plan?
The White House is unveiling a point-by-point reform plan before meeting with Republicans. And Republicans are giving indications at this point that they're not at all interested in this thing.
Now, here's the plan. Let me show it to you. The White House has actually gone a step further. At WhiteHouse.org/healthcaremeeting, the meeting that they're going to be having in just a little bit, just a -- having in just a little bit with the Republicans, this is what they have put out.
I have insurance through my work? Well, you click right there, and they will tell you what you need to know about how this health care reform plan is going to affect you. See right there? Or you could ask another question about whether -- if you don't have insurance, or different questions. And it takes you through this entire litany of everything you could possibly want to know, so says the White House, about this health plan.
Like, you can see right there, can I keep my doctor? And it will answer that question. Can I afford this coverage? Do I need new coverage? Step by step, point by point.
Now, you decide for yourself whether you think this is clever on the part of the White House to put all the information out there, or if it's desperate on the part of the White House to try and get health care reform passed. Because many Americans say that they still don't know what health care reform is, the president has put this Web site out to try and describe it to you.
Republicans are also saying that health care is a government takeover, so the White House went another step further on this as well. It's proposing a new federal board to block insurance companies from jacking up your premiums.
Uh-oh. Isn't that big government? Is it the government's place to be telling an insurance company what they can or cannot charge? Is that getting in the way of free market?
Well, listen to this. Watch this -- and watch this -- this take.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERT GIBBS, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: I don't think anybody would consider what a state insurance commissioner would do to be regulating the -- the increases, largely unjustifiable, for -- for health insurance to be an intrusion in their lives, but in fact a help. (END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: By the way, even more Dems are now signing onto something called a reconciliation plan. You know what that is?
At the White House today, Robert Gibbs wouldn't rule out using that option to pass the bill. As the White House tries to get on track on issues like health care, some Democrats, like former party chair Howard Dean, have said that President Obama simply hasn't been tough enough with Republicans.
Listen to all the different opinions being spewed here. Others, like Pennsylvania Governor Ed Rendell, says, no, the president hasn't done a good job to communicate or sell his message.
Colin Powell this weekend said, no, the president just tried to take on too much, tried to put too much on his plate, and that's why he wasn't able to get some of the approvals of the American people, and that's why he's getting so much criticism from the right.
All right, we're going to be asking these questions in just a couple minutes to Democratic Party Chairman Tim Kaine. And we're going to ask Kaine's Thursday meeting at the Blair House.
Is the message being sent to Republicans, whose side are you taking, insurers or voters? Is that the question that President Obama tried to get in? Well, the televised meeting is looking like must-see viewing.
By the way, we have got some -- this information coming to us just as we speak. We have just learned that Bob Dole has been hospitalized, that Bob Dole has been hospitalized. This is according to Politico.com. The former Kansas senator and once candidate for the presidency of the United States has been taken to the hospital, according to Politico.
We're not exactly sure what the condition is. No, I'm hearing now that it has to do with a bout of pneumonia. And that's the reason that he has been taken in.
In fact, Angie, did you just send me this? All right. This is -- is CNN confirming this yet? Or is this through Politico. This is through Politico. And I will read you what we have.
"He's recovering now at Walter Reed Army Medical Center, after a bout with pneumonia and had knee surgery as well. The 1996 GOP presidential nominee has gotten past his struggles with pneumonia, but, according to a source, is back to working and making calls in the hospital on behalf of his clients. He's 86 years old, was hospitalized for more than a week last summer as well, after experiencing an elevated heart rate. He was also treated for sores on his left leg."
So, that's information coming into us now about former Kansas Senator Bob Dole, former presidential candidate Bob Dole as well. If we get any more information, I will be sharing it with you. Meanwhile, when we come back, Tim Kaine is going to be joining me. He's going to taking us through what the Democrats need to do. After all, he is the chairman of the party.
And let me just tell you, flat-out, we have also invited Michael Steele, the chairman of the Republican Party, to join us, but he hasn't been able to do so. Nonetheless, we will continue with our discussion with Tim Kaine.
And this: Glenn Beck, he gets -- well -- all worked up. That's hardly a headline, but this as he turned his outrage onto his own party, comparing them to dysfunctional addicts. We're going to tell that as well, and why a respected conservative says that Beck is wrong to say that and wrong to compare his faults with the party's faults.
A must-see story for diabetics as well taking on the drug Avandia. Hundreds of patients are getting heart attacks and heart failure each month, and the drug may be the link. When did the drugmaker and the FDA know about the risks? We're going to drill down on that for you -- all this and a whole lot more.
Obviously, we got a loaded plate here, folks. I'm Rick Sanchez and this is THE LIST. And we're scrolling on.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Welcome back. I'm Rick Sanchez.
We do have two developing stories that I want to share with you now, only because a lot of the information is preliminary, and, again, we're attributing this to Politico, that is reporting that former Republican Senator Bob Dole, Kansas Republican Senator Bob Dole, has been hospitalized.
Politico is reporting that he was in fact taken to the hospital. Let me just call up that Web site once again, and tell you what we know before -- before we go anywhere else with this. Here we go.
It's this information. He's at Walter Reed Army Medical Center, after a bout with pneumonia and surgery on his knee. As you all know, he was the 1996 GOP presidential nominee. It says here that doctors have worked with him at Walter Reed and that he had been making some strides working between sessions. He was trying to recover and go back to the office a few weeks ago.
He's 86 years old, and he was there last summer, by the way, experiencing an elevated heart rate. And he was also treated for sores on his leg. So, that's where we stand right now with the condition of Bob Dole. Obviously, we are going to get our folks in Washington, and we're going to see if we can get some -- the folks who we follow on Twitter to see if there's any information going back and forth there. And as soon as it comes in, I will share it with you.
In the meantime, here's another report I now have to share with you, because this has to do with the situation that's going on in Afghanistan. And this is about General Stanley McChrystal. Let me make sure I get this right, because I'm reading this cold, OK? That means I haven't seen it before I share it with you. A video recording of General -- Commander General Stanley McChrystal's comments to the Afghan people is now available, which, hopefully, we will be able to turn around for you as well. It says McChrystal has now issued the message in both Dari and Pashto, following the military action in Uruzgan.
Obviously, as you know, in a story I told you just about a little while ago, there were some 17 civilians -- is that right, Angie? Help -- check my number on that. Anyway, there was a bevy of civilians who were killed in Afghanistan as a result of the assault there.
Thank you, Angie. I'm -- I apologize. My -- my digits were wrong. It's 27 civilians who were killed. And now it appears that the U.S. commander is apologizing for this.
He says: "The great people of Afghanistan, Sunday morning, the international security assistant forces while conducting a mission with Afghan security forces launched an attack against what we believed to be a group of insurgents in the southern part of Afghanistan. We now believe the attack killed and injured a number of Afghan citizens.
"I have spoken with President Karzai. I am apologizing to him and the Afghan people. I have instituted a thorough investigation to prevent this from ever happening again. We are extremely saddened by this tragic loss of innocent lives. I have made it clear to our forces that we are here to protect the Afghan people.
"I pledge to strengthen our efforts to regain your trust and build a brighter future with all Afghans. Most importantly, I express my deepest heartfelt condolences to the victims and their families. We all share in their grief and we will keep them in our thoughts and our prayers."
Once again, that's from Commander General Stanley McChrystal, new information coming in on the situation in Afghanistan, one we told you about just a little while ago.
Joining me now from Richmond, Virginia, former Governor Tim Kaine, head of the Democratic National Committee.
Mr. Chairman, how are you, sir?
TIM KAINE, CHAIRMAN, DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL COMMITTEE: Hey, Rick. I'm doing great. Good to be with you today.
SANCHEZ: What do you think of McChrystal putting out that apology right away, as soon as it became obvious that these 27 civilians had died as a result of a mistake?
KAINE: Well, I think, if they have made the conclusion that these were civilians who weren't insurgents, then the faster that they acknowledge that and, you know, apologize to families and folks there, the better. I think that's a very, very smart strategy. Obviously, they have been achieving some success in some of the actions in Afghanistan, the arrest of the Taliban leaders in Pakistan last week, good news for the region, good news for America, but, if -- if innocent civilians were killed and it was something that shouldn't have happened, I'm glad that they're moving very, very proactively on it.
SANCHEZ: How are you going to stop Democrats -- let's talk -- you ready to go politics now?
KAINE: Absolutely.
SANCHEZ: You ready to go...
KAINE: I will go wherever you want me to go.
SANCHEZ: You want to go mano a mano with me?
(LAUGHTER)
KAINE: Well, I never want to go mano a mano with you, but I will answer any question you have.
(LAUGHTER)
SANCHEZ: How are you going to avoid getting your clock cleaned in the upcoming elections very a coalition of the folks who are members of the tea parties, who want all the incumbents out, and the Republicans, who have pretty much been having their way with the president of the United States and the Democratic Party, at least when it comes to winning ideological arguments, whether the facts are on their side or not?
KAINE: Well, Rick, I will tell you, here's what we're going to do.
First, let's just acknowledge the reality. Since Teddy Roosevelt was president, the average first-term midterm elections are pretty bloody. The norm is, you lose 28 House seats, you lose four Senate seats, and you lose governor's races. I knew that. And the president and I talked about that basic fact when he asked me to take the job.
SANCHEZ: OK.
KAINE: That's the average, and we're not living in average times. The economy is tough.
But here's why we're going to do better, I think, than people expect. First, we have a successful president. Now, we have got to do a better job of telling the success story on our side, but whether it's equal pay for women, a Recovery Act that's working, four million more American kids with health insurance, no combat deaths in Iraq in December, the arrest of these Taliban insurgents last week because of smart diplomacy by the administration, there is a success story to tell. That's going to help us.
Second, we have got a lot of good candidates. Normally, in a midterm, what you're doing is, you're just playing defense all the time, but we are running offensive races, with the opportunities to pick up a lot of governor's mansions that are currently held by Republicans. There are Republicans who have retired in the U.S. Senate in New Hampshire and Ohio and Missouri. We have got great chances of winning those races.
And, similarly, in House races, we're not just playing defense. We're playing offense. Finally, the other side, we have got our challenges. They have their challenges. They have already chased one U.S. senator from the Republican Party into the Democratic Party. They -- they turned on their own nominee for Congress in Upstate New York in November. And we see these really divisive battles on the Republican Party between the Tea Party side of the party and many of their elected officials.
That's going to open up opportunities for us to win races. It won't be easy. We have got an uphill battle, but I think we're going to beat expectations.
SANCHEZ: Tim Kaine is the chairman of the Democratic Party. He's good enough to join us. We asked the other side to join us as well, Michael Steele. He wasn't able to get back to us, but, obviously, as soon as he confirms, we will do the same thing with him.
KAINE: Let me ask you about you just said. You said that the president doesn't seem to be getting his message out.
Whose fault is that?
KAINE: Well, I think -- I think we all share -- what I said was, we need to tell his success story better. And I do believe that. And I think that's something that the DNC needs to do better, the White House needs to do better, and Democrats and citizens all over the country need to tell it.
I mean, you know the stats, Rick. We were losing over 750,000 jobs a month when this president walked into office. We fought those job losses down to very close to net. Our economy was dropping 6 percent annually.
SANCHEZ: Yes.
KAINE: It's growing 6 percent annually. And, again, the legislative victories that I mentioned, these are not on minor matters. Equal pay for women is something that folks were marching with signs about 40 years ago.
SANCHEZ: Yes, but nobody is hearing -- but, Tim, nobody -- nobody is hearing that. All it seems that Americans often hear is that -- that the Republicans and the Democrats don't get along, and that the president's trying to shove health care down people's throats, and that he's going to spend too much money and screw things up for our children, and that he spends too much in general.
I mean, those are the messages. Whether they're true or not doesn't seem to matter. KAINE: Well...
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: Those messages are getting out there, and they're beating him.
KAINE: Well, they are, although I will say this. If you look at polls, the president still has enormously more credibility than Republicans in Congress, for example, the folks that are beating him up every day on virtually every issue.
People know it's a tough time. And one of the other reasons why I think when we tell the success story better, one of the challenges we have, as long as people are hurting -- and they're hurting -- it's a tough time.
This is the toughest economy since the 1930s. I was a governor in this tough time. I know how hard it is.
SANCHEZ: Yes.
KAINE: And I know how communities are suffering.
As long as the times are tough and -- and people are hurting, then, sure, there's going to be anger, there's going to be anxiety.
SANCHEZ: But do tough times -- but do tough times call for tough actions and tough people?
Let me tell you why I'm asking you this.
KAINE: Yes, absolutely.
SANCHEZ: Well, let me tell you why I'm asking you this.
KAINE: Mm-hmm.
SANCHEZ: Your predecessor, Howard Dean, is quoted as saying this White House has simply not been tough enough on Republicans.
Do you agree with that?
KAINE: Well, I think there are some areas, yes, where that's true, but, look, I think what the president needs -- is doing and what the American people want him to do is they want him to reach out. They want him to try to find common ground.
This is like the government of -- of England during World War II, when Winston Churchill said we need a national unity government. You know, this president was inaugurated with two wars and with the worst economy since the 1930s. And so he has never stopped reaching out to the other side.
Now, the other -- we have got to do some things on our side, sure. What the other side has to do is, they have to decide if they're just going to be the party standing in the way and trying to get in his way.
SANCHEZ: But what if they don't? But what if they don't? What if they say, you know what, I could give a hoot about your guys, I'm not here to help you, I'm going to make it as difficult as I can possibly make it for you?
KAINE: OK.
SANCHEZ: Down to about 10 seconds, because we're going to about lose the bird. Tell me what you do then.
KAINE: Yes, well, what we need to do then is we need to shine the spotlight on them and make them do that very plainly in the light of day, like, go ahead and filibuster then on the floor and say you're for insurance company abuses.
And, secondly, we have to find the votes on our own side to make things happen.
SANCHEZ: Huh.
KAINE: But the president should never stop reaching out, listening to good ideas, and trying to find common ground.
Now, we will call the other guys out. If there's a hypocrisy about saying the Recovery Act isn't working, but then greedily getting in the trough and saying you need all the money because it is working...
SANCHEZ: Right.
KAINE: ... we're going to call the other guys out.
But the president does need to keep reaching out. It's what the American people want these days...
SANCHEZ: Well...
KAINE: .. in this tough time.
SANCHEZ: And it's going to happen on Thursday, by the way. And you just may have given us a little clue into what the motivation behind this is.
Maybe you made some news. I don't know. Let me go look at the tape.
(LAUGHTER)
SANCHEZ: Hey, Tim Kaine, I really appreciate you coming on.
KAINE: Look forward to being back, Rick. Thanks.
SANCHEZ: You coming back, right?
KAINE: Glad to.
SANCHEZ: I didn't make you too mad or anything? KAINE: No, no, no, my blood pressure, I'm smooth.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: All right. We will see you later. Appreciate it.
KAINE: All right. Thanks.
SANCHEZ: Democratic Chairman Tim Kaine.
Meanwhile, Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders, Texas gubernatorial candidate Debra Medina are going to be joining me tomorrow to talk about how your government is broken, have a similar conversation that I just had moments ago with Tim Kaine.
And this:
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BECK: Hello. My name is the Republican Party, and I got a problem.
(LAUGHTER)
BECK: I'm addicted to spending and big government.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Yes, that's Glenn Beck, smacks down the GOP, but some of the party's old guard say Beck is out of bounds. The clash of the conservatives is coming up in just a little bit.
Also, a drug for diabetics is now linked to tens of thousands of heart attacks. How could this happen? And what does your government plan to do to protect you against this or other cases like it? That's why we're here, to let you know.
And an Afghan terror suspect strikes a deal with the government. We're learning new details about the scope of his attack plan and the price that he may now pay. This is big. We will share it with you.
This is THE LIST. I'm Rick Sanchez. And we're scrolling on.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: And I want to welcome you back -- I'm Rick Sanchez -- to the world headquarters of CNN.
This guy is a politician with an R next to his name, but he's going to be the very first to tell you that his blood runneth libertarian. He's also one of today's most intriguing.
I'm getting a zillion tweets asking why I haven't talked about him, so here we go. Are you ready? Seventy-four years old, he is a doctor, an 11-term congressman from Texas. And, this weekend, he ran away with the presidential straw poll taken at CPAC, the Conservative Political Action Conference in Washington.
That's actually a good indicator oftentimes of who Republicans like as their presidential candidate. Thirty-one percent of the CPAC voters chose this man, Congressman Ron Paul. They picked him big time over Mitt Romney, and Sarah Palin, and Pawlenty, and Gingrich, and Huckabee, and a whole list of Republican hopefuls. Is that going to be reflect on the 2012 election? Don't know.
I will ask him Thursday, if you want. That's when he's going to join me live on this program at 4:00. That's the day of the president's health care summit with Republicans, by the way,. Congressman Ron Paul, one of today's most intriguing.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have a problem within the agency, within the FDA, and the problem is that the people responsible for approving drugs in the first place are the same people that have to decide to take a drug off the market.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Could that conflict of interests be the root of the Avandia problem? The diabetes drug is believed to be linked to a high rate of heart attacks. Now, what should you do if you have some Avandia in your medicine cabinet? What if you don't know this information?
Do you know anyone who might possibly be affected by this? We're standing by right now for a news conference that's going to be coming our way in just a little bit. It's the attorney general, Eric Holder. And he's going to be discussing several topics, among those, Naji Zazi. That's the Afghan native who entered a guilty plea about an hour ago to trying to blow up subways in New York City on the anniversary of 9/11.
We are going to bring you the latest on that story and everything else developing right now.
I'm Rick Sanchez. This is THE LIST. Stay there, folks.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: There is a terrorism development that we need to bring you. And, whenever they come in, we try and give you all the skinny we can -- a guilty plea today from a guy accused of planning a bomb attack last year around the 9/11 anniversary.
Now, remember, he was stopped on the George Washington Bridge in New York. This is the guy. Let me show him to you. See him right there? This is video of him in a surveillance tape. You will see this only on CNN, by the way. Before his arrest, you see him some -- buying a bunch of peroxide and other chemicals, like hair products and nail products that he was going to use to assemble these bombs in this warehouse, so say officials.
This video and others like it are key to the case against Najibullah Zazi.
Jeanne Meserve has been watching Mr. Zazi for quite some time. And she's here now to join us with this new information.
How serious a suspect was this guy, Jeanne?
JEANNE MESERVE, CNN HOMELAND SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Oh, he was very serious. The attorney general, Eric Holder, has called this the most serious terrorism case since September 11.
This guy has admitted in court today that he was a suicide bomber, that he had the training and he had the materials, and his target was the New York City subway system.
In a New York courtroom today, he pleaded guilty to three charges, specifically conspiracy to use weapons of mass destruction, conspiracy to commit murder in a foreign country, and to provide material support to a terrorist organization, namely al Qaeda.
Now, Najibullah Zazi went to Pakistan in 2008. He told the court today he went over there with the intention of joining up with the Taliban, but he was recruited by al Qaeda to conduct a suicide mission. They gave him training and explosives, also weapons. He came back to the U.S., moved to Denver.
Out in Denver last summer, he assembled the chemicals, he said, to -- to create explosives. He even checked into a hotel room, where he tried to cook up his formula. Then he headed for New York.
That stop that you mentioned on the George Washington Bridge tipped him off to the fact that he was
MESERVE: He even checked into a hotel room where he tried to cook up his formula. Then he headed for New York.
That stop that you mentioned on the George Washington Bridge tipped him off to the fact that he was being investigated. And he told the court today that at that point, he got rid of the chemicals.
But we're expecting a press conference in, oh, about a half hour's time from the attorney general, the U.S. attorney for the eastern district of New York, and a top FBI official. We hope to get even more details about the case at that point -- Rick.
SANCHEZ: Well, I understand he had some accomplices. What's their story?
MESERVE: Yes. Well, a couple of other guys are in custody, people who he knew in New York. In addition, he father and his uncle also had been taken into custody, but have since been released. So two people currently in custody besides Najibullah Zazi. We haven't heard anything new about the state of play with their cases yet.
SANCHEZ: All right. Jeanne Meserve, nobody better. Thanks so much for keeping us updated on this story. We appreciate it, and we'll look forward to that news conference coming from the AG in just a little bit. And if it happens sooner, we'll reach out to you, OK?
MESERVE: You bet.
SANCHEZ: Appreciate it.
Now this -- this is one of those you got to see to believe things. It took the people by surprise. They had no idea it was coming.
Like a wall of mud and water suddenly starts rolling through your town unexpected. We're going to show you how this happened, and really just let you see it and hear it for yourself, because it's one of those natural disaster tragedies that comes along once in a generation.
Also this -- controversial diabetes medication could be responsible for hundreds and hundreds of heart attacks each month. Why has it taken so long for us to be able to tell you this? What has the government done about it?
We're watching your back on this, folks. The drug is called Avandia, and we'll take you through it.
Stay right there.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: All right. I think this is a very important story that you need to know about.
If you are somebody who has diabetes, if you know somebody in your family or a friend who has diabetes, this is something that you need to perk your ears up for.
A Senate Finance Committee report is now linking the diabetes drug Avandia to heart attacks and says the drug maker knew about this for years.
Let's take one thing at a time.
And joining us now is our medical correspondent, Elizabeth Cohen, to take us through this.
What is it? What can it do? How many people reported having heart attacks when after taking this?
ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SR. MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: All right. Avandia is a drug for type 2 diabetes. That's the type of diabetes you get, you know, not usually as a kid. And this was the drug of choice for many doctors. This was hailed as this great advance in diabetes, but now there is an analysis that was done at the FDA and that the Senate -- the Senate now has its hands on it, that says about 80,000 heart attacks happened because of this drug.
SANCHEZ: Eighty thousand?
COHEN: Yes, because of this drug. And if you break it down into a per-month period, they say that for every month that passes, there are more than 500 heart attacks and more than 300 cases of heart failure because people are on Avandia and not some other --
SANCHEZ: Well, pardon me for thinking that's a phenomenally high number. Can you put it in perspective? How many people take it? Am I seeing something wrong here?
COHEN: No. I mean, the numbers have gone way down.
What you're seeing here is what many people are seeing, which is why in the world is this drug on the market when there are other drugs to treat diabetes? And I talked to a whistleblower at the FDA last night who said, "Look, a colleague of mine and I wrote a report for the FDA that said take this off the market." These are folks who work at the FDA, and he said they're just not listening to us, it is still on the market.
SANCHEZ: So you mean to tell me that right now, there are plenty of other substitute drugs that you could take, and Avandia is still available to people to take?
COHEN: It's still available, and doctors are still prescribing it. Not in the numbers that they used to, but it is still being prescribed.
SANCHEZ: Well, this should just be taken off completely, shouldn't it? Or am I crazy?
COHEN: Well, that's what the whistleblowers at the FDA say.
Let me tell you what GlaxoSmithKline says.
SANCHEZ: OK.
COHEN: They're the folks who make it. They say, look, the FDA reviewed all our data, they approved it in 2007. They confirmed that it was still a good drug, and they say, "The scientific evidence simply does not establish that Avandia increases cardiovascular ischemic risk or causes myocardial ischemic events."
So, in other words, GSK says the data is not there. They totally -- they think that this data saying that there are more heart attacks with Avandia is baloney.
SANCHEZ: So then what's killing 80,000 Americans?
COHEN: Well, they say this is an analysis that is basically not valid. They say these numbers aren't valid. But there are researchers at the Cleveland Clinic who say it's valid, there are doctors within the FDA who say it's valid. You've got to choose who you're going to believe, I guess. SANCHEZ: Let me ask you a question. The idea that these drug companies are going to do things that are not based on profit, what would their motivation be to come out? In other words, how big a killing would they take if they had to come out and do a Toyota and say our product is no good and can hurt you?
COHEN: Not speaking about GSK here, but just in general from having covered these things for decades now --
SANCHEZ: Yes. Drug company X or B.
COHEN: -- drug companies will come out and say things like that when they have enough lawsuits that make them very anxious. What they say is dependent upon the lawsuits that are out there, and they think, what are we going to say that's going to get us in more legal trouble versus less legal trouble?
SANCHEZ: But the bottom line is the folks who watch out for us, our watchdogs, the FDA, has to step in and be aggressive in these cases, right? And that's what you're saying many people are asking for now.
COHEN: Right. And what I'm hearing from people even within the FDA is that the FDA is not as aggressive as it should be. They say there's plenty of data that shows that this drug hurts people and isn't necessary. I mean, sometimes drugs hurt people --
SANCHEZ: But are necessary.
COHEN: -- but they're necessary. But they're saying there are plenty of other drugs you can take if your diabetic. You don't need to take one that seems to be linked to all of these heart attacks.
SANCHEZ: Point well made. Good stuff.
Thanks so much, Elizabeth, for clearing that up for us.
COHEN: Thanks.
SANCHEZ: We're also going to bring you this in just a little bit --
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Seven homes close to this area were evacuated. We obviously do have a toxic cloud that is dissipating right now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: That is not the kind of news that you want to hear in the middle of the night. A train's derailed and a toxic cloud, and then flames may be heading your way? That's what those firefighters are saying. Details on that story are coming up in just a little bit.
Also, it is a disaster in Portugal, where monster mudslides sweep away homes, roads and bridges. Take a look at some of this video. We're sharing more in just a bit.
And then the destruction is only part of the story. We're going to bring you up-to-date information on the damage as it occurs.
Stay right there. It's video perhaps like you've never seen before.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: And I welcome you back. I'm Rick Sanchez.
I was lucky enough to grow up in a place where on a clear day I could look up in the sky and actually see the shuttle going up into the heavens. Talk about cool.
Let's do "Fotos."
Yes, this is hard to avoid, looking up when they take up or when they land. This was from last night at the Kennedy Space Center. Watch as it glides to Earth quietly.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Main gear touchdown.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Main gear touchdown. That's the key word there. And we're only going to see that four more times before the shuttle program is put on permanent hold.
All right. Let me show you this next video.
See that smoke? That ain't good, folks. That's a couple of train cars that derailed near Bakersfield, California, and pretty much burned all day Sunday.
One car was carrying alcohol, another one was filled with plastic pellets. Nasty. A few homes were evacuated just to be cautious, but the fire's out now.
Don't know exactly what happened. Folks say they're still investigating.
And then there's this --
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RYAN SORBA, YOUNG AMERICANS FOR FREEDOM ORGANIZATION: I'd like to condemn CPAC for bringing Go Pride to this event.
(BOOING)
Bring it. Bring it. I love it. I love it.
Guess what? Guess what? All right? Guess what? Civil rights are grounded in natural rights.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: They're shouting about, folks. That's what you call a chilly reception for this guy.
His name is Ryan Sorba. He was speaking at CPAC, and he began railing against gay rights advocates. The target of his anger, a Republican gay rights group that was invited to the discussion.
The audience seemed to boo him off the stage. I think it's safe to say that Ryan Sorba was not well received by this conservative audience.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GLENN BECK, FOX NEWS: I believe in redemption, but the first step to getting redemption is you've got to admit you've got a problem..
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Well, that's Glenn Beck, as you know. Republicans at CPAC got a spanking from him, figuratively speaking. He shared his own experiences with drugs and with alcohol, and then compared it to the Republican problems.
But Republicans today are saying don't compare us to the problems you had in the past. That's not fair, and we won't accept it.
Who's saying that? Well, we're going to tell you exactly who's saying that. He's a very prominent conservative. He's firing back. Bill Bennett's point-by-point takedown of Glenn Beck's speech, this is interesting.
I'm going to share it with you in just a little bit. Stay right there.
This is THE LIST.
I'm Rick Sanchez. We're scrolling on.
And by the way, as I go to break --
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Welcome back. I'm Rick Sanchez.
Look at that. We've got some folks.
Wave, guys. Hey, good to have you here.
This is part of the "Inside the Conversation" tour. We invite some lovely folks to come and join us on Mondays so they can be here in the studio with us. And if I need them to try and fill in for me in a little bit, I'll pick the most handsome one. It looks like the gentleman back there with gray hair would do a great job. He looks distinguished.
We'll be doing that in just a little bit.
Meantime, a big surprise this weekend from CPAC. That's the Conservative Political Action Conference.
The keynote speaker was Glenn Beck, as you know, but his comments are being criticized by Republicans, including one prominent Republican who calls Beck's speech discouraging and dangerous.
That Republican is Bill Bennett, a CNN contributor. More on what he says in just a moment, but first here's a wrap-up of CPAC from CNN's Jim Acosta.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GLENN BECK, FOX NEWS HOST: It is still morning in America.
(APPLAUSE)
BECK: It just happens to be kind of a head pounding, hung over, vomiting for four hours kind of morning in America.
JIM ACOSTA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's no mystery why the Conservative Political Action Conference elected Glenn Beck as its keynote speaker.
BECK: Is this cold -- yes. I'm turning into a freaking televangelist --
ACOSTA: With his off-the-wall outbursts on all things Obama, Beck is a conservative household name. But at the conference, the conservative talk show host surprised the room with a rant against Republicans.
BECK: All they're talking about is we need a big tent. We need a big tent. Can we get a bigger tent? How can we get a big tent? What is this, a circus?
ACOSTA: At times sounding like a self-help guru, a Dr. Phil to the GOP, Beck ordered the Republican Party to take the first step toward redemption.
BECK: Hello, my name is the Republican Party, and I've got a problem. I'm addicted to spending and big government.
ACOSTA: It was a battle cry for conservative purity right out of the tea party movement. Even presidential hopefuls were getting in on the act as Minnesota Governor Tim Pawlenty reflected on the saga surrounding a certain American golfer.
GOV. TIM PAWLENTY (R), MINNESOTA: I think we should take a page out of her playbook and take a 9-iron and smash the window out of big government in this country.
ACOSTA: But before you think this is a sign of the Republican Party to come --
REP. RON PAUL (R), FINANCIAL SERVICES COMMITTEE: It sounds to me like the revolution is alive and well.
(APPLAUSE)
ACOSTA: When Texas Congressman Ron Paul was named the winner in the conference straw poll in the 2012 presidential race --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now --
ACOSTA: The winner of this year's CPAC straw poll is Texas Congressman Ron Paul.
There were boos. Some Republicans worry their party is sending the wrong message for the upcoming midterm elections.
GOV. ARNOLD SCHWARZENEGGER (R), CALIFORNIA: They have to do everything they can in order to win in November. So they're going to say no to everything. They're going to say it's not good what Obama is doing. That's natural.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So they are the party of no.
SCHWARZENEGGER: They're the party of no.
ACOSTA: As for Glenn Beck's call for Republicans to admit they have a problem with conservatives --
SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R), MINORITY LEADER: Everybody in this country has got a right to their opinion. I think the American people are very open to our proposals. And if the election were held tomorrow, would be very inclined to vote for us in large numbers.
ACOSTA (on camera): There was one surprising outcome at the CPAC conference. Two percent of those surveyed at the event approved of President Obama's performance. One Republican pollster said he'd like to know who they are.
Jim Acosta, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ: All right. Now, as promised, Bill Bennett's reaction to Beck. The former Bush drug czar says that he likes Glenn Beck, but is criticizing him for comparing Republicans to his own personal alcohol and drug addiction.
"There is a good and strong tradition in alcohol and drug treatment that personal failings should not be extrapolated into the public sphere. Too often when this is done, conclusions are reached based on the wrong motives and often the wrong analysis."
Bennett seems to be saying to Beck, don't make your personal failings, nor your conclusions from those personal failings, nor from rehab, part of our problem in the Republican Party. Bennett goes on to point out that when Beck accuses Republicans of not admitting their faults, he ignores what was said by "some of the loudest and brightest lights of the Republican Party."
There you go -- Glenn Beck versus Bill Bennett. When we come back, I'm going to ask one of these folks over there what question -- you guys ready? Give me a nod if you're ready. I'm going to ask you which question I should have Wolf Blitzer, because he's joining me live and I want you to be part of the conversation.
Stay right there. THE LIST continues.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Welcome back. Time for the Rick and Wolf moment. All right, the Wolf and Rick moment.
But we've got some friends here, and I want to let them ask the questions.
Tom is joining us. He's in our studio audience and he wants to ask Wolf Blitzer a question.
Go ahead, Tom.
TOM, AUDIENCE MEMBER: Wolf, what do you think about Ron winning?
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Ron Paul, you mean?
TOM: Ron Paul.
BLITZER: I think it underscores that he has a lot of supporters out there, especially among conservatives and some Independents who really love Ron Paul. You know, he was very impressive during the Republican presidential campaign.
He's going to be a special guest, by the way, tomorrow, here in "THE SITUATION ROOM." He's confirmed -- we're going to try to get his son on as well. He's running in Tennessee for Congress, so that should be good.
But Ron Paul, he's always a smart guy and he's always entertaining.
SANCHEZ: Hey, Blake. I think you have a question there, sir. What have you got?
BLAKE, AUDIENCE MEMBER: Yes, Wolf. Do you think that Obama will be able to get health care through after this bipartisan meeting with Republicans this week?
BLITZER: It looks doubtful right now, but you never say never and you don't know. Right now, he still needs, in order to break a filibuster, 60 votes. And that's going to be hard, especially if not one Republican is on board. And it's going to be impossible, in fact.
If they come up with this other convoluted reconciliation process, you need 51 votes. That's more doable, but that's not, by any means, guaranteed either. So, it's still a big problem unless at this meeting on Thursday -- and we're going to be covering it wall to wall here on CNN -- unless there's some magic moment there that unites Republicans and Democrats, it doesn't look very promising right now. SANCHEZ: Hey, by the way, guys, raise your hand in you know who Shakira is. Raise your hand. You guys all know who Shakira is?
BLITZER: Who doesn't? Everybody knows Shakira.
SANCHEZ: Well, you know, Wolf is a big fan of Shakira. She's, like, one of his favorites. And there's a story today that there's another meeting at the White House. Apparently, Shakira is going to the White House or has -- what's going on with Shakira?
BLITZER: I don't know, but --
SANCHEZ: Who's cutting in on your mustard there, buddy?
BLITZER: I want to cover that story when Shakira goes to the White House, Rick. I saw her at the NBA All-Star Game in Dallas. She was the halftime entertainment with Alicia Keys. They were fabulous. Shakira is very, very special. So is Alicia Keys.
Ask them if they know who Alicia Keys is.
SANCHEZ: Do you guys know who Alicia Keys is?
Yes.
See, big -- by the way, since he went to that NBA event and saw or met, he has not stopped talking about the woman. OK?
BLITZER: Let me just say this. And I tweeted this on Twitter, Rick. Shakira, when I saw her at the NBA All-Star Game, I concluded what we all know -- her hips don't lie.
(LAUGHTER)
SANCHEZ: They folks love you. It's the Wolf Blitzer hour.
BLITZER: And on top of all of that, let's not forget Ron Paul here in "THE SITUATION ROOM" tomorrow.
SANCHEZ: All right. Look forward to it, man.
BLITZER: Thanks.
SANCHEZ: Wolf, always enjoy it. Thanks for playing.
Up next, here's the kind of damage that a flood of mud can cause. And it goes way beyond this. Dozens of people killed and the destruction is just incredible.
We're going to bring you all the details and some unbelievable pictures you wouldn't see anywhere else.
Stay right there. We're going to let you watch.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) SANCHEZ: I've been looking at these pictures since this morning and I'm just blown away by them. Have you seen what's going on in Portugal?
Sudden torrential rains that nobody expected, and it's the most extensive damage they have seen. But the pictures are relentless, unexpected, mostly on the island of Madeira.
Here -- let's watch it together. Natural sound up. That means you'll be able to hear it, not my voice.
Take it, Roger.
So far, 42 people have been killed, more than 120 injured.
Today, Portugal declared three days of national mourning by this flooding that just seemed to catch the whole country by surprise.
My thanks to you for being here.
I'm Rick Sanchez. This is RICK'S LIST.
We'll look for you again tomorrow.
Here now, my colleague and friend, Wolf Blitzer, in "THE SITUATION ROOM."
