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Rick's List
Pedophiles Masking Themselves as Pediatricians; The Deal Behind the Subway Bomber's Plea; Testimony Against Toyota
Aired February 23, 2010 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
RICK SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome back.
This is the Capitol Hill testimony that Toyota really didn't want us to hear, a driver who survived a sudden acceleration rips into the car maker and the government. We're going to play that for you.
And here's what else we'll be playing for you.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ (voice-over): Here is what is on THE LIST -- completely unspeakable.
BEAU BIDEN, DELAWARE ATTORNEY GENERAL: They were crimes committed by someone with whom an entire community and parents had placed their trusts.
SANCHEZ: The man parents trusted their children to, a pediatrician accused of molesting more than 100 patients -- children.
ERIC HOLDER, U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL: This attempted attack on our homeland was real. It was in motion, and it would have been deadly.
SANCHEZ: The attorney general says the system worked. Does the subway bomb plotter's guilty plea prove our civilian courts can handle terror suspects, or not?
And check out this act. Don't get too close. Don't get too close. I told you.
The lists you need to know about. Who is "Today's Most Intriguing Person"? Who is on "The List You Don't Want To Be On"? You will find out as our national conversation on Twitter, on the air starts right now.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ: And hello again, everybody. I'm Rick Sanchez.
What I'm about to share with you is startling. A Delaware pediatrician is accused of molesting his own patients, children, right there in his office.
Dr. Earl Bradley is accused of molesting, in fact, more than 100 children in his office, some as young as three months old. CNN senior medical correspondent Elizabeth Cohen is here.
But, first, let me bring Brooke Baldwin in.
I know both of you guys want to get in on this story. There's a lot to say.
And, boy, I will tell you, as a mom -- yes, yes.
ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: It kills you.
SANCHEZ: We will get to that in just a little bit.
Who is this guy is? What was he doing?
BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: He's 56-year-old Earl Bradley, and he possibly is the nation's worst sex offender, sex molester in the history. That's according to documents, when you look at some of the numbers here.
Here's his picture. Just take a look at this guy. He is -- he was indicted Monday with a 160-page indictment, 471 felony counts of these sex crimes. He had this private practice up in Lewes, Delaware. It was called BayBees Pediatrics. But he also had medical licenses in Pennsylvania, New Jersey, Florida.
Monday's indictment accuses this man of victimizing 103 kids, all girls but one. They first charged him back in December. And I would like to get into some of the details here, because a lot of people are wondering. This guy had has practice for 10 years. And from some of the videos that the authorities have found, this could date back to 1998.
And, essentially, what we're hearing is that he's violated these children orally, fondling, holding the children. But it came down to this one child. It was a 2-year-old. Last December, this child went in --
SANCHEZ: Two-year-old?
BALDWIN: Two years old.
SANCHEZ: Two years old.
BALDWIN: Two years old, went in to see him, and came back, reported back to her mother that, hey, the doctor, you know, was inappropriate with me.
The mother goes back home, confers with the dad. The dad said, hang on a second. That happened back in October. They put two and two together. They went forward, and, apparently, this child's testimony, 2 years old, was so compelling, that's what led to the search warrant, which found all these videos, and that is what ultimately led to his arrest.
SANCHEZ: Let me ask you a question I think a lot of folks at home are thinking. And Elizabeth and I are going to be talking about this in just a little bit.
And that is the issue of how -- I could see that it could happen with a child or a couple children --
BALDWIN: Sure.
SANCHEZ: -- but more than 100 children? That means the parents had to either be so trusting or not there for something -- for him to be able to have his way with those children in some back room in his office.
BALDWIN: That is the question I think of the day with the story and I'm interested to hear.
I think there's a lot of power with a white coat. There's a lot of trust that happens. But this had happened, more than 100 kids. He had this office. He had Toyotas. He had candy. And when you listen to the reporter -- one of the reporters who helped break the story was at Delaware, "The News Journal."
He said he would take these children, and let's say that the mother had two children. One of the children needed to have their diapers changed. The doctor would say, according to this reporter, you can go ahead and do that. I'm going to take the child that I need to see down to the basement, down to this area --
SANCHEZ: Oh, my God.
BALDWIN: -- where they had the Disney, the Toyotas, the candy. All it would take, according to this indictment, in some cases, two minutes.
SANCHEZ: And we know of a -- and police are alleging more than 100 cases.
BALDWIN: Right.
SANCHEZ: There could be more.
BALDWIN: There could be more. As I said, he had medical licenses in Florida, Pennsylvania, and I'm -- Florida, Pennsylvania, New Jersey.
And so they are expecting additional charges to come out in the coming months, as, of course, they're reaching out to authorities in those states, and they're reaching out to possibly more patients in Delaware.
SANCHEZ: And you think that's troubling, wait until you hear what -- wait until you hear what Elizabeth is going to report to us now. She's got information that this may not be the only pediatrician who's done this. Talk about a warning.
Isn't that right?
COHEN: Oh, it's incredible.
When I first heard about this, I'm like, oh, this is just a one-off. This is sort of the only crackpot doing this.
SANCHEZ: Freak, right.
COHEN: Freak.
But, when we looked into it, in the past year -- take a look at this list of people, pediatricians, who have been arrested or indicted or convicted of some kind of child molestation. In Illinois, a pediatrician arrested for felony sexual assault charges, in Pennsylvania, unlawful contact with a minor. All of these are pediatricians. Ohio, 16 sex-related charges involving former patients --
SANCHEZ: Wow.
COHEN: -- for one pediatrician.
SANCHEZ: All right, stay --
(CROSSTALK)
COHEN: Texas. Accused of molesting four boys.
SANCHEZ: Stay right there, because you know what this means?
BALDWIN: Wow.
COHEN: This means that, look, you -- you're not a parent yet.
BALDWIN: I'm not a parent yet, but, good lord.
SANCHEZ: Trust me, I know.
You and I are. And we have small children. And I -- and it stopped and made me think, just as a parent, as a human being, how trusting am I? What do I need to consider? What do we all need to know?
You have written about this. You're an expert on what our rights -- patients' rights are, right?
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: So, let's -- let's take a little break. We will come back. Three of us will continue this conversation.
Look, this case has to scare the daylights out of anybody out there who is a parent. Is it -- is it ever OK for a doctor to examine your child without you in the room? Your tendency is to say, sure, Doctor, you got -- you do what you got to do . I respect you. You're a doctor. You're my child's doctor.
But who should you trust? How much should you trust? How do you know whether you should trust them? How many doctors take charges for taking these -- advantage of these children? All that and a whole lot more, stay right there. I'm coming right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Welcome back. I'm glad you're back.
In fact, I know that you guys are going to be tweeting to me about this story, and a lot of you are talking and thinking about it. We were -- we couldn't stop talking about it either.
We were -- the three of us were sitting here talking about this during the break.
And you -- I didn't give you a chance to mention this the first time, Brooke, that you were talking about this, but the guy actually recorded some of these actions --
BALDWIN: Right. So it was --
SANCHEZ: -- with these children.
BALDWIN: -- it was the videos that, once they were -- he were -- was arrested in December, the police went in, and they found these videos, 12-plus hours, both from his office and his home. So, he not only is accused of -- of violating these young children, but he videotaped --
SANCHEZ: Sexually violated little --
BALDWIN: -- videotaped --
(CROSSTALK)
BALDWIN: -- sexually violating --
SANCHEZ: -- baby girls.
BALDWIN: And the words --
SANCHEZ: Babies, girls, babies.
BALDWIN: Babies. And the word that is describing these videos is also violent, violently violating --
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: And now you -- you have got a map to show us some of the other guys who may been charged of this or may be accused of this all over the country who are also pediatricians.
COHEN: Right.
In the past year, four, in addition to this guy, have either been accused or convicted. And this is just what we found in -- sort of in a library search. I mean, I'm not saying that this list is complete, but there were at least four other pediatricians who were accused and/or convicted of some kind of terrible molestation crime.
SANCHEZ: We have always heard that people who have a predisposition to do something like this will look for jobs or professions where they can surround themselves with children. So, really, it shouldn't surprise us that --
BALDWIN: Right.
COHEN: Right.
SANCHEZ: -- like this would happen.
COHEN: Right. Exactly. He's not going to become a factory worker.
SANCHEZ: Right.
COHEN: I mean, if what he wants to do is to molest little children, what better way to do it than to go into a profession where there are lots of little kids around?
And these people are skilled. They know what they're doing. We blogged on this day. And one of our -- someone who actually appears to live in this neighborhood, in this community wrote, predators are, by definition, excellent hunters.
BALDWIN: Hmm.
SANCHEZ: Wow.
COHEN: They know what they're doing. And they seduce the parents. Those are the words of the journalist who has been covering this --
(CROSSTALK)
COHEN: -- seduce the parents.
SANCHEZ: We -- we don't want to castigate all doctors --
COHEN: Of course not.
SANCHEZ: -- or certainly not all pediatricians, because they're fantastic. And I know, in my children's case, they have been godsends.
But you made an interesting mention of something. The power of the white coat, I think you said.
BALDWIN: Yes.
COHEN: Yes.
BALDWIN: It is powerful.
SANCHEZ: There is something to that, isn't that?
COHEN: There is something to that.
For example, when I brought my 3-year-old to the dentist for the first time, it was a pediatric dentist. And they said, Mrs. Cohen, can you leave the room? You're upsetting her. It would better if it was just us and you left the room and go to the waiting room. COHEN: And I said --
SANCHEZ: Did you?
COHEN: -- no, no.
SANCHEZ: No?
COHEN: Because my daughter -- not because I worried that they were going to do something, but she was so upset, that I said no. But it took every ounce of strength in my body to defy this person in a red coat.
And I write the empowered patient column, OK?
(LAUGHTER)
COHEN: I write about -- I'm writing a book about this. It is hard to say no to someone in a white coat.
SANCHEZ: But let's -- let's tell it like it is. There's a tendency in our society to see doctors -- I know I'm describing my mother this way -- the doctor is like God.
COHEN: Right.
SANCHEZ: Whatever he says and does, oh, my God.
BALDWIN: Goes.
SANCHEZ: And moms are that way. And us dads are that way as well.
COHEN: And they're not gods. And I think that is so important.
I love my doctors as well. But you know what? My pediatrician is not my best friend. I don't know everything about him. If I -- what reason would there be for me to leave one of my daughters alone in a room with him? I trust him, but you know what? Why would I want to do that? Why wouldn't I be there? I can't think of a reason.
SANCHEZ: And, by the way, generally speaking -- you're an expert on this -- it's -- it's uncommon for a doctor to want the parent to not be in the room, especially if he's dealing with an infant.
COHEN: Exactly. I have never been asked to leave the room, except by that pediatric dentist. And I never went back there.
But, no, with an infant, why would they ask you to leave the room?
SANCHEZ: It --
COHEN: And it sounds like, from what Brooke has been telling us, that he would sort of -- sort of manufactured reasons for the parents to not be present.
BALDWIN: Almost like a bait and switch sort of -- COHEN: Right.
(CROSSTALK)
COHEN: Exactly.
SANCHEZ: Final question in this conversation, unless you guys come up with something else, but I'm thinking that, as a parent, I would like to know more.
Is there a place where I can learn about my rights as a parent and what I should know that I should be able to do, so I don't ever find myself in this uncomfortable situation?
COHEN: Yes. There's one thing that you can do, which is, you can look up your doctors online to see if they have any kind of a criminal background. More doctors have criminal backgrounds than you might think.
SANCHEZ: Really?
COHEN: That's a start.
CNN.com/newsroom, we have a blog. And it -- it spells out -- and you can click right on different places to look up your doctor. So, checking out your pediatrician -- there you see it -- just click right on there by my colleague Sabriya Rice. So, that's a good first step.
SANCHEZ: Well --
COHEN: The second step is CNN.com/empoweredpatient, three years worth of articles about how --
(CROSSTALK)
(LAUGHTER)
SANCHEZ: You have written about..
COHEN: This is what I write about. That's right. I have a book coming out.
SANCHEZ: You have been writing about this for three years.
COHEN: Right.
SANCHEZ: That's --
BALDWIN: Should you just never leave your child alone with a doctor? I mean, what --
COHEN: I don't -- I mean, my kids are young.
SANCHEZ: Well --
COHEN: I don't see a reason to do that. I don't see why I would -- would ever want to do that.
SANCHEZ: There does come a point where there -- there is an established trust with your pediatrician.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: And just because this person wasn't worthy of it doesn't mean that they're all not worthy.
COHEN: Of course not.
SANCHEZ: So --
COHEN: Of course not.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: So, I think it's important to impress upon our viewers that's not the message that we're trying for you guys to take away.
Ladies, great conversation. Really enjoyed it, I mean, really, really interesting stuff. And I'm glad we weren't able to just tell the story, but also drill down --
BALDWIN: We could keep going.
SANCHEZ: -- on some of the other information.
Now, leave during the commercial, so I can talk about something else.
(CROSSTALK)
BALDWIN: All right.
(LAUGHTER)
SANCHEZ: Appreciate it.
Let's talk about this now. This is a terrorist. His name is Najibullah Zazi. He confessed to his crimes, without water-boarding or without a military tribunal. Now, think about that. Does his case strength -- strengthen the White House's claim that terror trials belong in civil courts or in criminal courts?
We're going to check -- we're going to check in with our security desk on this in just a little bit.
And, then later, a wrestling stunt gone wrong -- a wrestling stunt watch this. One of the WWE's biggest starts, he gets too close to the flames, and, suddenly, he's aflame. Oh, my goodness -- details coming up in just a minute. I meant fire flame.
By the way, plus, former Vice President Dick Cheney's fifth heart attack. We're told he's resting. He was watching the Olympics last night.
Good for him. But they did say he may have actually suffered a minor heart attack. We will take you through that information.
Stay right there. We will be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: I was checking on the former vice president's condition last night, and I learned that he was up in his -- in his hospital bed watching the Olympics, talking to his daughter Liz and his family.
Then, suddenly, we got some new information about two hours ago. It's now confirmed that Dick Cheney actually had heart attack. It was his fifth heart attack, mild, we -- we suppose, at this point anyway. His office says it was in fact -- let me correct that -- no supposition here -- it was in fact a mild heart attack.
He's still in the hospital. Staff says he's resting comfortably, was admitted to George Washington University Hospital yesterday, when he had chest paints. You know, he's 69 years old. He has had a long history of heart problems, dating back to his late 1930s -- wait -- dating back to the late 30s -- when he was in his late 30s. Pardon me.
He had four previous heart attacks and had quadruple bypass surgery as well.
By the way, Dr. Sanjay Gupta says all source reports he's heard indicate that the former vice president is not in an emergency situation, not hooked to a breathing machine. He's mobile -- all positive signs.
And the source has told our John King that Cheney has been making and receiving calls this afternoon. President George W. Bush and Vice President Joe Biden, friends and former top Cheney aides, are among those who have been calling Cheney to wish him well.
All right.
We told you yesterday at this time about the terror suspect Najibullah Zazi, pleaded guilty to plotting to blow up subways in New York City. Well, now we know more about why.
CNN homeland security correspondent Jeanne Meserve has been all over this story. She is at CNN's security desk in Washington with some new details about this.
I was just wondering, Jeanne, what kind of torture did they use on him?
(LAUGHTER)
JEANNE MESERVE, CNN HOMELAND SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: No torture, but they did have a little pressure to put on.
The plea deal itself is actually sealed, and so we can't read it to get these specifics, but a law enforcement source tells me that Zazi's mother and father were both facing the possibility of immigration fraud charges. They weren't facing deportation, but they must have done something like, for instance, lied about immigration status on -- on some sort of official document. They faced the prospect of criminal charges.
We're told that that was one of the pressure points. We also know that his dad, Mohammed Wali Zazi, had been charged in connection with his son's case. He had been charged with obstruction of justice for trying to get rid of some of the chemicals with which he was going to make explosives.
He was released on bond last week. But, clearly, that was another one of these levers that the government could use to try to win his cooperation. And they did that, Rick.
SANCHEZ: Well, look, there's this argument going on all over the country right now, and I think it's our place to see if we can at least shed some light on this argument.
There are people out there, many of them on the right, who say you need to use military tribunals. You don't need to put these suspected terrorists through our criminal justice system.
And then there are people who are saying, no, our criminal justice system is darn good at handling this type of thing. And I believe now we have the attorney general, Eric Holder, coming out saying, now, here's another example of how well our criminal justice system can deal with this.
What -- what's -- amplify that theme for us, if you would, Jeanne. You look at this every day.
MESERVE: Well, I will tell you, the attorney general did make the point several times yesterday that this was an illustration of how the criminal justice system can deal with terrorism suspects.
Here who was an individual who was arrested, who was charged, and who eventually came around to cooperating with the government. And he made the argument it can work in other cases, too. It's one of the tools that we should have available to us.
However, there is pushback today from some members of Congress. Congressman Lamar Smith, who is, for example, from Texas, says, wait a minute. Zazi was an individual who had legal status in this country. He was arrested in this country. The criminal courts were appropriate for him.
But if you look at someone like Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, who was arrested overseas, who is not a U.S. citizen, he should be tried in a military commission. A couple of other members of Congress also weighing in, Senators Lieberman and Collins saying today that they want to take the $200 million that President Obama had in his budget for security at terrorism trials, take that money and give it to the Coast Guard, which otherwise was going to be facing some cuts.
And Lieberman and Collins are saying, we want to do that, because we believe the military commissions are the place to do it. SANCHEZ: But, look --
MESERVE: It's a very active argument.
SANCHEZ: But I suppose some would argue the proof is in the pudding. And we're going to be looking more into this in the next coming days, because I think -- I'm curious what works best, and how does it work best.
This fellow, Zazi, right, is he talking? Is he -- are we getting information from him, as well as just getting a -- a -- a guilty plea?
MESERVE: Oh, yes. The indication is that -- that that is why this plea deal was accepted, that he is cooperating in some way with the government.
As to what he's telling them, nobody is telling us what that might be, but there are a lot of things he might reflect on. Obviously, he can talk about any co-conspirators here in the United States. Also, you will remember, this is the guy that went to Pakistan to get training at an al Qaeda camp.
And, so, it's quite possible that he could open up some avenues for the intelligence agencies overseas for them to pursue.
SANCHEZ: Good stuff.
Jeanne Meserve, our homeland security correspondent at our security desk, we thank you so much --
MESERVE: You bet.
SANCHEZ: -- for that report.
SANCHEZ: OK. All week long, we're taking on the idea of broken government. You have seen what we have been doing so far. As some of your tweets have been calling it, maybe we should be calling it broken political system. We get it.
But, regardless of what you call it, some of Washington's biggest critics are folks who go to tea parties. In our next half-hour, we're going to talk with one of them, a politician in the Texas governor's race who is getting national attention because she's giving the other candidates a run for their money.
And, as we go to break, we thought we wanted to bring you this. Eight years after shooting and killing his limo driver, former NBA star Jayson Williams was sentenced to five years in prison. At today's hearing, Williams tearfully apologized.
This has been a heck of a story, in New York in particular. This is where he apologizes to the victim's family. Let's watch it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAYSON WILLIAMS, CONVICTED FELON: I'm not a bad man, but I acted -- acted badly on February 14. I will work endlessly to improve myself, to continue to help others and again make positive contributions in our society. That's who I am, and that's who I want my daughter to be proud of.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Welcome back. I'm Rick Sanchez.
He is a longtime lawmaker who famously refuses to pick a side. He is today's most intriguing.
All right, let me see if you can figure out who I'm talking about. He was born in Stamford, Connecticut, in 1942. He's been in politics since 1970. You decide if that's good or bad.
(LAUGHTER)
SANCHEZ: He's the very first Orthodox Jewish United States senator, and says he agrees with Democrats on domestic stuff, but with Republicans on foreign policy and defense stuff.
The independent who caucuses with Democrats has now come forward as the defender of gay soldiers and wants to roll back the Pentagon's don't ask, don't tell policy. Who is this? It's Connecticut Senator Joe Lieberman, sponsoring a bill next week to allow gay men and women to serve openly in the U.S. military.
That's what makes Senator Joe Lieberman's today's most intriguing in the news.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RHONDA SMITH, TESTIFIED ABOUT LEXUS SUDDEN ACCELERATION: Shame on you, Toyota, for being so greedy, and shame on you, NHTSA, for not doing your job.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: OK. Wow. Toyota takes another image hit, this time with the driver's testimony on Capitol Hill -- up next, more from today's emotional hearing. It's a preview of what we will be seeing from the carmaker's president when he makes his appearance in the hot seat. And we're going to be all over that one.
Now, this is why Congress is holding Toyota accountable, and this is why so many drivers are demanding answers from Toyota. This story has just seemed to take on a life of its own in the last couple of weeks.
In the next half-hour, we're going to bring you the latest on the accident -- the accident that exposed Toyota's design flaws.
Stay right there. We're going to take you through it.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) SANCHEZ: It is 29 minutes after the hour of 4:00. And we find ourselves here in Atlanta in the world headquarters of CNN with this bit of information that I want to impart.
The head of Toyota says that he knows what forced his company to recall millions of cars: Toyota grew too fast. That's what he's going to tell Congress.
Well, today, Rhonda Smith testified that her Lexus suddenly accelerated on a Tennessee highway. She's telling Toyota, "I -- I almost died because of you." It hit 100 miles an hour. She put it in neutral, and then she tried to hit the brakes. Then she shifted into reverse. And then that still wasn't working, so she tried to hit the emergency brake.
And then she called her husband, because she thought she was about to die.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SMITH: I knew he could not help me, but I wanted to hear his voice one more time. After six miles, God intervened as the car came very slowly to a stop. I pulled it to the left median.
With the car stopped and both feet on the brakes, the motor still revved up and down at 35 miles an hour. It would not shut off. Finally at 33 miles per hour I was able to turn the engine off. We've never wavered from our belief that the problem was electronic. Not wondering floor mats.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Smith complained to Toyota, by the way, and she says she also complained to the federal government. And she says neither really took her seriously.
Toyota president Akio Toyoda testifies tomorrow and we are going to be all over those hearings as you might expect from CNN. We'll bring you all the fireworks if and when they happened right here during (INAUDIBLE).
Also those paying really close attention to today's hearing most have noticed a lot of references to Joe Pesci movie "My Cousin Vinny." This is -- we found this to be somewhat odd. We're going to show you exactly what we're talking about. What does Joe Pesci have to do with this Toyota situation? You'll get it, and you might even laugh.
Also tea party protesters say the government is broken, but can they get enough candidates in office to really make a different? There's a Republican woman in Texas who is hoping to take advantage of the party's message, all the way to the state capitol, but will she take her controversial views on the bitter movement in 9/11 with her if she wins?
Stay right there. We're coming right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: All right, Rog, go ahead and do me a favor, Rog, give me a two-shot. Could you bring Brooke into this? I just want for the record to clear up.
BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Yes.
SANCHEZ: Because I heard some chatter back there with Anjanette (ph) and Angie that some people may have thought that I was being mean to you when I said, OK, now you guys better go because I'm not going to get any work done.
What I meant was --
BALDWIN: Wait. We didn't even hear this.
SANCHEZ: You didn't hear when I said that? Because, you know, I don't want to hurt your feelings.
BALDWIN: No, you didn't hurt my feelings.
SANCHEZ: What I was saying was that this story about this pediatrician -- I can't stop thinking and talking about it. So --
BALDWIN: Oh when you told --
SANCHEZ: Right.
BALDWIN: -- Elizabeth and I to scram?
SANCHEZ: That's what I meant. But during the commercials we were just going to talk.
BALDWIN: No, I know.
SANCHEZ: So you're cool with that?
BALDWIN: All cool.
SANCHEZ: You don't hate me?
BALDWIN: Not today.
SANCHEZ: All right. You want to do this with me?
BALDWIN: Yes, let's.
SANCHEZ: Want to do "Fotos"? Let's do it. Because "Fotos" is always fun. A lot of people think pro-wrestling is a fake. A lot think pro- wrestling is --
BALDWIN: Isn't it?
SANCHEZ: Well, a lot of people think it's fake.
BALDWIN: OK. SANCHEZ: Wink, wink. Actors and scripts, nobody gets hurt, right? Watch "Fotos."
All right, see this guy right here, Brooke? He's a WWE bad guy. He's called "The Undertaker."
BALDWIN: Is he on fire?
SANCHEZ: Yes, that's exactly what the problem is. He's coming out and he's doing his little thing, the show there, right? But he comes dangerously close to his own funeral instead.
BALDWIN: Oh my goodness.
SANCHEZ: That's his costume going up in flames, and the pyrotechnics went off too early as he entered the ring. Apparently the guy is a trooper, though. He took a fireball to the face and he just walked off.
BALDWIN: He took a fireball to the face?
SANCHEZ: Look!
BALDWIN: How do you recover from that?
SANCHEZ: Watch. He's like -- he's on fire. Literally. Watch.
BALDWIN: He's not flinching.
SANCHEZ: Boom. Look.
BALDWIN: Oh, there he goes.
SANCHEZ: Look.
BALDWIN: He says, ouch.
(LAUGHTER)
SANCHEZ: I mean that's the angle that we were looking at. The Undertaker, as he's called, finished his match despite suffering second and third-degree burns to his arms, chest and face. That had to hurt. He's going to be OK, though, we're told.
Oh, baby, The Undertaker. He can make an entrance, though, can he?
BALDWIN: And an exit, apparently.
(LAUGHTER)
SANCHEZ: Surveillance tape now. Watch the circle highlight. See that?
BALDWIN: Yes.
SANCHEZ: Police say that's a woman teaching her children to steal wallets and purses at a pizza place in Indianapolis.
BALDWIN: What?
SANCHEZ: Can you believe that? A mom points to an unattended purse, and her little girl goes for it. They got away with at least one pocketbook and police are still looking for them.
BALDWIN: They're pilfering purses?
SANCHEZ: Yes, with children.
All right. This is the situation as we've been monitoring it. These are tensions running high once again on the streets of the West Bank. Young Palestinians with rocks, squaring off against Israeli soldiers with real guns and tear gas.
It doesn't take much to spark a street fight in Hebron, but today the Palestinians were angry because Israel is adding a few West Bank holy places to a list of Israeli national sites.
Nobody was badly hurt on all of this, and it happens from time to time. If not more often. Hebron is the only place in the West Bank where Jews and Palestinians live together in large numbers. So you might expect it.
Well, as you can see, though, they don't always live peacefully.
BALDWIN: Frightening.
SANCHEZ: Yes.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAEL STEELE, CHAIRMAN, REPUBLICAN NATIONAL COMMITTEE: Those of you who wish to obstruct get ready to get knocked over.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Well, Republicans are get -- get ready to be supposed to be the fiscally conservative party, so why is Michael Steele burning through RNC money?
Remember the message from what Washington has been, don't overspend, don't overspend, don't overspend.
BALDWIN: I hear you.
SANCHEZ: There's reason to believe that Michael Steele may -- may have overspent. We'll take you through it. Stay right there.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RICK, CALLER FROM RICHMOND, VIRGINIA (via phone): Hey, Rick, this is Jason from Richmond, Virginia. I just wanted to say the government is not broken, the people are. We need to vote out these people that are in Congress and the Senate and we to vote in the people that will make changes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: We call it "Broken Government" and we've been studying this all week long. Now you've heard about the race for the Texas governor, right? Veteran U.S. senator Kay Bailey Hutchinson -- she's been with us.
Challenging her party's incumbent, this guy, Rick Perry, who also has joined us on this show in the past -- he was talking last April, and in fact he was talking at a tea party rally. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. RICK PERRY (R), TEXAS: I'm talking about states' rights. States' rights. State's rights.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: State's rights. Two heavy hitters, Perry and Hutchinson. And suddenly out of nowhere -- talk about state's rights -- comes Debra Medina. She is a tea party activist whose support in the polls rose so high she found her way into a televised debate with these two famous politicians.
And this became a national sensation. A tea party activist crashing the Texas Republican Party. But then a funny thing happened.
In an interview with Glenn Beck, Medina suggested that she's on the side of a 9/11 conspiracy theorists, suggested it.
A quote from Debra Medina, "I think some very good questions have been raised in that regard. There are some very good arguments and I think the American people have not seen all the evidence."
That's what she said.
Since that moment, Medina's support has slipped. That's what the polls seem to show. By the way, that Republican primary is one week from today, and Debra Medina is good enough to join us now from Wharton, Texas.
The comments you made, Debra, about 9/11, they seem to have hurt you. Are you -- are you trying to walk it back now somewhat? Or have you? Or do you want to?
DEBRA MEDINA (R), TEXAS GOV. CANDIDATE: Well, I think we came out pretty clearly and early to clarify. You've talked about second question that I got there from Glenn. I laughed off right away.
We've had all kinds of kind of absurd things thrown at candidates. And that was one, frankly, that I had never heard in over a year of campaigning, never talked about that, and laughed. Apparently sometimes you've just got to say no. (CROSSTALK)
MEDINA: And I -- clearly I should have. I said no, I am not a truther. I haven't -- I don't consider myself to be a truther.
SANCHEZ: Let me hear you -- we've got some sound of you here so the audience can hear you. This is you clarifying your remarks as well. Let's listen to that if we got it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MEDINA: 9/11 Commission report, you know, great sections of that are redacted and are top secret. That makes us all wonder, well, what's happening back there? The same is true with the birth certificate thing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: It almost sounds there like you're not convinced that the government may not have played a hand in it. Just so for the record, if you want to stomp this out right here now on national television, do you believe the government, the U.S. government, played in the role in all in 9/11?
MEDINA: I have made it clear that I believe Muslim terrorists blew planes into those buildings, and I do not believe our government colluded with them or worked with them in any way.
The question that I've alluded to and I've left open is those recognizing that there were questions raised by the 9/11 Commission. I think it's incumbent on people in leadership to rely on and make decisions on objective evidence.
This is all a diversion from this race. I've issued my statements.
SANCHEZ: But wait a minute.
(CROSSTALK)
MEDINA: And I'm focusing on the issues here in Texas.
SANCHEZ: Debra. Debra, either you do or you don't believe that 9/11 was in any way caused or helped by the U.S. government. Do you or don't you? Because first you said you don't, and then you said there are questions that are being raised by the 9/11 Commission.
So help us understand. What questions are being raised by the 9/11 Commission that we as Americans should be concerned about in terms of culpability on the part of our government?
MEDINA: I have not talked about those and I'm not going to talk about those. I am in no position here. I wasn't a member of the commission. I am simply stating that I do not consider myself to be a truther. I believe Muslim terrorists flew those planes.
And I am a sensible enough, rational enough person to know that the experts that were chosen by our Congress and by our president raised some questions. I have not studied that report, and I am not going to speculate about the content or the --
SANCHEZ: OK.
MEDINA: Or the conclusions that they drew. I know that there are questions, and that's all I'm going to say about it.
SANCHEZ: So we'll leave it that there are questions. How about the birth certificate thing? You say you're not a truther. Are you a birther?
MEDINA: No. Not a birther.
SANCHEZ: Not at all? You don't doubt that the president of the United States is legitimately a citizen of the United States, born in Hawaii?
MEDINA: No, I do not. I've not questioned that at all. No, I think what all of this gets to and the reason that people are coming after me is I am someone -- this shouldn't be about what Debra Medina believes or frankly what other candidates personally believe.
Our job as governors or as candidates for governor is to ensure that we have government that protects the life, liberty and property of her citizens. And I have said we've got to have accountability in government.
We don't have the kind of accountability in government we need in Texas and I'm going to champion that. So I hope as we do these interviews that folks don't take that to mean, well, Debra is saying people can't ask questions.
I've spent a year saying Republicans are in trouble because they're not walking their talk. We want clear, transparent accountable government. And if we had those things, these questions you're raising today would be a non-issue.
SANCHEZ: What's your position on immigration?
MEDINA: We have talked about, boy, over and over that the wealth of a nation is her people. We need a healthy immigration process. Very disturbed by some things that are going on here in Texas, namely our governor championed in the second debate the fact that Texas offers in-state tuition to illegal immigrants.
The governor claims that that is to help them toward citizenship. The fact of the matter is it's the ultimate bait and switch. It's a horrible program because while the state offers in-state tuition, those who qualify for that and under the federal law, if you've been here for three years you're forever barred from becoming a citizen.
So we've got state law that says you've got to be here three years to get in-state tuition, federal law says if you're here three years, you'll never get American citizenship. You'll never get U.S. citizenship. The fine print is an ultimate and a gotcha. It is not taking care of our neighbors. It's horrible policy. And we see that up and down in Texas under the governor's leadership. It's time for new leadership in Texas. And that's what we're fighting hard for.
SANCHEZ: Do you think undocumented immigrants -- and this is a very relevant question for someone living in the southwest part of the United States, obviously. Do you think that undocumented immigrants benefits Texans or simply take from Texans?
MEDINA: Boy, I don't think there's any question that's a yes/yes answer. Certainly there are members -- there are people -- you know, everybody contributes to this society, I guess what I'm trying to say, whether you're here illegally or not.
We're all contributing to the society and people -- you know, I don't know whether that's a net sum gain or loss. I guess depending on how you're looking at it. The wealth of a nation is people, but first we've got to remember this is a constitutional republic.
We are the greatest nation on the face of the earth because we created a set of laws that are supposed to be fair and just and apply equally to everyone. We're finding ourselves, in large regard, in the predicament that we're in, because we have failed to adhere to those laws.
Those standards aren't applied the same --
SANCHEZ: Yes.
MEDINA -- to everybody that's here. That's what we're fighting for, recognizing that people are the wealth of the nation. We want a healthy, prosperous immigration process.
SANCHEZ: All right. Well, you know -- we're -- you know, and I understand. I mean, for the record, the question was pretty clear. Do you think undocumented immigrants benefit Texans or is it the other way around? Is it do they take away from Texans?
I'm not quite sure you gave us an answer to that, but nonetheless we're out of time, we appreciate the fact that you've taken time to explain your positions to us and try and to clear up some of the things that have been reported about you, and some of the things that you may have said during other interviews.
My thanks to you, Debra, for taking time once again there in Texas to talk to us today. Take care.
MEDINA: Thank you.
SANCHEZ: Up next, Wolf Blitzer is going to be joining us to go through this conversation that I just had moment ago with Debra.
Also, he's going to be talking to us about Michael Steele. Now, remember, the big scream in this country has been, and verifiably so, one would think, we can't overspend. We don't have that much money anymore.
Is it possible the chairman of the Republican Party has, in his own way, overspent? Michael Steele. And he's now getting heat for it.
Stay right there. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: OK. It's not every day that your elected representatives drop movie lines into congressional hearings. Today there were two. Two references, two -- are you ready for this? You know "My Cousin Vinny."
BALDWIN: Yes, yes, yes.
SANCHEZ: Did you see that movie?
BALDWIN: Two yoots (ph).
SANCHEZ: Two yoots. "My Cousin Vinny" in the middle of a Toyota hearing. Let's listen to this. You're ready?
BALDWIN: Yes.
SANCHEZ: Go.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
I want to talk about "My Cousin Vinny" with Mr. Cain and Mr. Gilbert. It's probably one of the best movies on trial advocacy and engineering I've ever seen. And one of the scenes, a classic scene in that movie is when they're sitting in this rundown hotel room arguing over who is responsible for a leaking faucet.
And Marisa Tomei, Mona Lisa Vito, the character in that movie, says to Joe Pesci that she turned off the faucet. And he said, are you sure? And she said, I'm sure. And he said, are you sure you're sure? And she said, I am.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(LAUGHTER)
SANCHEZ: He joked that Joe Pesci and Marisa Tomei should have been subpoenaed. His point, by the way, is engineers need to look at every possible way something can fail in the design process. Role models of the yoot for America. You know, the yoot.
BALDWIN: Two yoots.
SANCHEZ: You know what the yoots?
BALDWIN: Two yoots.
SANCHEZ: Yoots. Right. Exactly. Now you know the line I loved in that movie. BALDWIN: What's that?
SANCHEZ: Corn hominy. He's explaining what grits is to the jury. He says, do you know what it is? It's corn hominy. I didn't know that. And we eat grits all the time because of my wife.
BALDWIN: Classic.
SANCHEZ: All right, you and I are going to bring Wolf in. What do you say?
BALDWIN: OK.
SANCHEZ: Wolf Blitzer, how are you?
BALDWIN: Hi, Mr. Blitzer.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: I feel good. How are you guys doing?
(LAUGHTER)
SANCHEZ: Did you just call him Mr. Blitzer?
BALDWIN: Of course.
SANCHEZ: Mr. Blitzer.
(LAUGHTER)
BLITZER: She shows a little respect.
SANCHEZ: OK. OK. Sorry. We'll go with the Mr. Blitzer thing if it makes you feel good.
Hey, look, there's this report out there that seems to have gained some criticism for Michael Steele. And -- you know, there's many ways to look at this thing. But essentially what they're saying is that Michael Steele reportedly has spent lavishly, maybe twice as much as any other of his predecessors have when they were the chairs of the Republican Party.
And obviously, it's significant and newsworthy because it comes at a time, Wolf, when everybody in the country is saying this is not a good time to spend too much. We've got to literally hold it back.
What's your take on this situation? What do you expect to hear from this?
BLITZER: Well, I would take -- I would take a look and see the results. Did that extra money that they spent actually generate more money? Was fundraising for the RNC up significantly as a result of the extra money they went when they went on their retreat, their convention in Hawaii, for example? Did they raise a lot of extra money? Or was that just simply a drain?
I would take a look at them. In other words, the bottom line like any corporation. If you spend money, do you get the bang for the buck? And I don't know the answer to that as far as the RNC is concerned.
SANCHEZ: No --
BLITZER: I do know and you know it as well because I'm sure you've spoken to Michael Steele. He's a very high-profile guy, he's a former lieutenant governor of Maryland. He's been on television for a long time.
SANCHEZ: Yes.
BLITZER: He's not just a low-key RNC kind of chairman. He's out there.
SANCHEZ: No.
BLITZER: He's out there all the time, and he's trying to make a case for the Republicans.
SANCHEZ: To his credit, look, the guy's in demand.
BLITZER: Yes.
SANCHEZ: The guy gets probably more requests to speak and visit groups than just about anybody. I can't remember Hallie Haley Barbour being asked to go all over the country and appear on everybody's show except like just our shows and stuff. So there is a demand issue out there.
BLITZER: Hailey Barbour was pretty popular, too, but in between there were a bunch of RNC chairmen that were much more low key, who didn't necessarily go out all the time.
But Michael Steele -- and by the way, he's going to be on my show on Friday. He's coming into "THE SITUATION ROOM," but he's -- you know, he's usually pretty available. He wants to make the case. He's outspoken, he's feisty, very smart. And I don't know in terms of the inside stories how much money they're raising.
SANCHEZ: Right.
BLITZER: But I suspect fundraising for the Republicans is up, given the fact that they won in Virginia, they won in New Jersey, they won in Massachusetts. They seem to be on a roll right now.
SANCHEZ: Well, but the thing is, too, the Hawaii thing. You know, Hawaii, when you always have your meetings in Washington and then all of a sudden you have them in Hawaii, I could see -- I can understand why there might be some people out there whose eyebrows were raised by now.
BLITZER: I'd rather go to Hawaii myself.
SANCHEZ: Yes, well, I know who you want to go to Hawaii with -- well, not with, but you would rather see her perform there. You know who that is?
BLITZER: I'm sure --
SANCHEZ: Shakira.
BALDWIN: Shakira.
SANCHEZ: Even Brooke has got you figured out, Wolf.
BALDWIN: Wolf is way hip. Wolf knows she-wolf.
SANCHEZ: Mr. Wolf -- Mr. Blitzer, thanks.
BLITZER: You guys know who's going to be at the Verizon Center in Washington, D.C. tonight?
BALDWIN: Who's that?
SANCHEZ: Who?
BLITZER: Black Eyed Peas.
SANCHEZ: Oh cool.
BALDWIN: Are you going?
BLITZER: No.
SANCHEZ: Yes.
BLITZER: Unfortunately.
SANCHEZ: Yes. All right, thanks, Wolf. We'll see you in "THE SITUATION ROOM."
BLITZER: All right.
SANCHEZ: Bye-bye.
We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Having this corn hominy discussion. Before we go to break, everyone's tweeting about corn hominy now and what he really said about corn hominy.
RNC defends Steele. It cost money to raise money. A fundraiser with Newt Gingrich in Spago costs $10,000 but it raised $53,000. That's Peter Hamby.
Say that again?
BALDWIN: Spago.
SANCHEZ: Sorry. You make me cool. And I thank you for it.
BALDWIN: I try -- Speaking of cool, here's Wolf Blitzer in THE SITUATION ROOM.
