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Continuing Coverage: Toyoda, Inaba Testimony Before Congress

Aired February 24, 2010 - 14:57   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(JOINED IN PROGRESS)

REP. EDOLPHUS TOWNS (D-NY), CHAIRMAN, OVERSIGHT COMMITTEE: I recognize the gentleman from Pennsylvania, Mr. Kanjorski.

REP. PAUL KANJORSKI (D), PENNSYLVANIA: Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.

Gentlemen, welcome to the United States. I have to compliment you, Mr. Toyoda, for deciding to come here and testify. Actually, it is a unique experience in terms you'll be able to brag about the fact that you withstood the interrogation of a congressional committee. That is a badge of courage in the United States.

But if you heard any of the examiner's questions of the secretary, and I think now of yourselves, we are a little disturbed about some things, and I am, too, although I am sympathetic to the fact that we want to encourage international business, we want to certainly open up our markets to your manufacturing from Japan or your ownership of manufacturing facilities in the United States.

But I thought I heard this morning, the secretary say that you had a problem in Japan that was detected in '07. And then subsequently, the same problem was detected in Europe, but there was no communication of that problem or the prospect of that problem being contained in American manufactured automobiles or your products being sold in the American market. If that impression that I have is true, that is very troubling to me.

I would like you, as best you can, and I understand the difference in language, to explain whether or not you are giving the American automobile purchaser, your customer, and the American market the same level of attention that you give to the Japanese market or the European market.

And if you didn't in the past, what are you going to do to make sure that the difference doesn't occur in the future? We cannot afford to have a lag of a year or two years of finding out something that is defective in an automobile. I suspect the stock price is reflecting that to you, that it can be very costly. I hope it doesn't destroy a great deal of the equity of your company, and I hope you can move on and move beyond this question.

But I want to hear in my own mind that there hasn't been this difference between the home market and the American market or the home market and the European market, or your experiences in the home market and the European market, and the ignoring of the American market and the American customer, if I may.

AKIO TOYODA, PRESIDENT & CEO, TOYOTA MOTOR CORPORATION (through translator): We provide the same services with the same degree of care to the customers, not only in the United States, but customers world over.

However, as the congressman has just pointed out, our speed of expansion outpaced our development and training of people working for us. And, right now, I'm fully aware of that.

In July last year, I became president, and, since then, I appointed executive vice presidents responsible for each regions of the world. And, by doing so, we established a system where information of different regions can come into the head office, can be captured in a more timely manner. And, on top of that, specifically about this quality issue that we are faced with at the moment, with respect to concerns of the customers or customers' voices before they are expressing in terms of complaints, we are going to capture those, so that information be conveyed to the head office in a timely manner.

And we are putting in place a system to enable us to do that.

YOSHIMI INABA, COO TOYOTA MOTOR NORTH AMERICA & CEO TOYOTA SALES USA: Let me address, if I may, specific issues of defect information sharing, which was also Ranking Member Issa's question.

I think we should have done a better job in sharing those cross- regional defective information.

KANJORSKI: What have you determined was the cause that you didn't? What, is it culture? Is it psychology? Is it something that happened in the communications breakdown? It just seems absolutely essential.

INABA: When you go into a certain database, you can find it, but it is not -- I must say, I don't know very well, but possibly shared.

Now, going forward, what we are going to do is, one of the things I would like to also report to you is that we are making now one American we call product safety executive, is a part of recall decision-making, as part of the global committee headed by one Japanese, one American, and maybe later added from other regions like Europe and China.

And then, in that, all the information are shared there, so that we can evaluate and know what is going on in another part of the world in more transparent way. So, this is the change that we are making now.

KANJORSKI: Let me ask you just a side question, if I may. Does Japan have a tort system similar to the United States, where a suit can be brought for damages by these injuries and loss of life?

TOYODA (through translator): I believe we do.

KANJORSKI: We have a little bit of a contest sometimes going on in the United States. We call it tort reform.

And it is an argument that my friends on the other side very often use in the medical argument field, that, if you had tort reform, and you just allowed some people to die or get severely injured without recovery, that would correct things.

I think you are making the best argument in the world I have ever heard of why we should have the present tort system. And I hope you recognize what kind of payment for the injuries and the damages suffered by innocent American citizens who like myself, have grown up in an atmosphere that we had a great deal of faith in something that was stamped "made in Japan," that it was of the highest reliability.

And you have injured that thought process in the American public. And you will be called upon under our system to pay compensation for that.

TOWNS: And I yield to the gentleman from Indiana on that note.

REP. DAN BURTON (R), INDIANA: Let me just preface my remarks by saying we really need tort reform.

(LAUGHTER)

KANJORSKI: We should just forgive these companies and let them kill our people.

BURTON: Never mind. We just have a difference of opinion.

First of all, let me thank you both for being here. I think it is very good that you came. It shows real concern on the part of Toyota. And I also want to compliment Toyota dealers around the country. I went to a couple of Toyota dealers this last week to take look at what is going on, and they are working day and night to correct these mistakes.

And so, to your Toyota dealers, I want to say thank you for working so hard to correct these problems.

Now, after having said that, first of all, I have a case here that took place in 1997. I don't want to go into all of the details on it, but a woman was injured in an automobile accident involving a Toyota. She lost both legs.

And I would like for you to review that and, if you would not mind, giving me a response. Would you do that for me?

(CROSSTALK)

INABA: Yes, sir.

BURTON: OK. I will have my staff give this to you, so that we can talk about that.

The second thing I want to do is, I don't understand this. I went to the Toyota dealer, and this is the floor pedal mechanism that is used in Japan and in some cars here in America. This is one that's manufactured by CTS here in the United States and -- it is CTS -- and they have done a good job on this.

This pedal here has been involved in the accidents, I believe, that have caused the fatalities. This one here, there has been sticking, and they have been putting a shim in there, a little metal piece in, to correct that.

And my question is, why the difference? These are going in the same model car, and why do they have different specifications? Because this one here has caused the problems that has created some deaths, and this one here has had some sticking problems which have been created -- or corrected, but it is different.

And, so, when you are manufacturing the same car, why is it that they don't meet the same exact specification? It seems to me that would be easier to correct than having one that is made one way and one that is made another way.

TOYODA (through translator): As the congressman already knows, a car consists of some 20,000 to 30,000 parts. And I would like you to understand, 20,000 to 30,000 parts. And I would like you to, first of all, know that we work together with the suppliers in designing those parts.

(CROSSTALK)

BURTON: If I might interrupt, I understand that you work with the suppliers, but the designs are different. This one here has a different mechanism in the bottom than this one. And I'm just wondering why, if it is the same model car, there is a difference?

TOYODA (through translator): Some parts are designed by our suppliers, with Toyota approving that. And, in other cases, Toyota's own engineers design those parts. So there are two approaches used.

In the case of this specific pedal, the suppliers designed the pedal, and Toyota approved that. And, in both cases, we were able to identify two excellent suppliers whose parts were worthy of us to use in the United States and Japan. And, therefore, those two parts designed by our suppliers were used in this pedal.

And, on top of that, it is our philosophy to grow together with our suppliers. And, in that sense, rather than placing order with one single suppliers, we source the same parts from multiple suppliers. That is to say, when there are suppliers that can supply parts that perform the same function, we do that. And this is another point I would appreciate your understanding.

BURTON: No, I -- if I might real quickly just say I understand, but when there is a problem of this magnitude, where people have been killed because of a part, and there is another part that didn't result in fatalities, but there was a sticking, it seems to me it would be easier to correct the problem if there was more consistency in the two parts. TOWNS: OK. Thank you very much. The gentleman's time is expired. I now recognize the gentleman from Maryland, Congressman Cummings.

REP. ELIJAH CUMMINGS (D), MARYLAND: Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.

I want to thank both of you for being with us this afternoon.

And, to Mr. Toyoda, I have read your testimony and I have listened to it, and I can appreciate you saying and meaning that you are sorry. The problem is that it is one thing to say you are sorry. It is another thing when it seems as if, time after time, there are pronouncements that problems are being addressed, and, over and over again, they seem like they are not being addressed.

2007, fatal crash involving a Camry, because, allegedly, of floor mats, a person was killed. And we can't get away from these facts. September 2007, you then -- 55,000 cars are recalled. And I know this was before your presidency.

August 2009, California, a fatal crash, four people were killed, the Saylor family. September 2009, 4.2 million cars recalled. And we could go on and on.

And then, just yesterday, Mr. James Lentz III said something that was interesting. And, basically, what he said was that, even with the sticky pedal and the floor mat problem, that there may be -- this may not account for all of the problems.

So -- and he implied that maybe there were some electronic problems taking place. The question becomes at what point do -- and I know also you want to regain the trust of your customer base, but that trust is hard to establish -- or reestablish -- when they see over and over again these kinds of situations, and they say, well, why should we believe that things are going to get better?

And I know that there have been members of this dais who have said that they have some good things that Toyota has done, but I have got people in my district who, by the way, are saying they call and they have to wait to get their cars repaired.

But, at the same time, they have to take the children to the baby-sitter. They have got to go and do their marketing. I mean, this is just practical things that are happening. So, I am just asking you, how do you say to your customers, to people who take their hard-earned dollars in a tough economic time and spend them on a Toyota vehicle, how do you say to them that we can trust you now, when -- and I say this most respectfully -- when it seems as if there is no end to this series of promises, and then promises that seem to come short of reaching the goal of safety?

TOYODA (through translator): I sincerely regret that some people actually encountered accidents in Toyota vehicles.

As I mentioned earlier with respect to the electronic throttle control system, the system itself has been designed based upon the philosophy of safety first. And, therefore, whenever any abnormality or anomaly is detected, fuel supply is instantly cut off.

That notwithstanding, accidents actually happened. And, therefore, I instructed that every effort be made thoroughly to reproduce and duplicate the accidents. And up until yesterday, those duplication tests have been repeated and conducted. However, no malfunction or problems were identified based upon the tests conducted internally within Toyota.

And, therefore, based upon such thorough examination and testing conducted within Toyota, I have been saying that I have no question with the respect of the integrity of our (INAUDIBLE) system.

And, therefore, in cooperation with the authorities concerned, we already announced that we are going to thoroughly examine and investigate the outcome and data recorded in event data recorder. And the findings will be made public and disclosed in a prompt and timely manner. And changes will be made in a very transparent manner, so that that be assured going forward.

CUMMINGS: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

TOWNS: Thank you very much. And I yield five minutes to the gentleman from Florida, Mr. Mica.

REP. JOHN MICA (R), FLORIDA: First of all, Mr. Chairman, I would like to request unanimous consent to include in the record the specific information on the administration's proposed 2011 budget request, which cut National Highway Transportation Safety Administration's vehicle research program, and also further reduce the amount for vehicle safety research in the budget.

I didn't have this further. If that could be inserted also in the budget -- I mean, in the budget information in the record, appropriate to my previous questioning of the secretary, without objection.

TOWNS: I will review it, and we will -- but I reserve the right to reject.

MICA: All right. Well, again -- OK. Then I will proceed.

This is indeed a very embarrassing day for the United States National Highway Safety Transportation Administration. It is equally a very embarrassing day for Toyota to have the son of the founder of Toyota here as the chief officer to come before the United States' Congress.

I'm embarrassed for you, sir. I am embarrassed for my dealers that I have talked to. I'm embarrassed for thousands of people, hardworking Americans who work in, I guess, over 10 plants across the United States.

I thought -- actually, I thought we were doing pretty good, because Toyota was taking quite a hit -- and I will put it in the record later on your safety record and some of the things you have done positively, information that I got -- until I was shaving the other day and heard the news of the memo that was prepared by a gentleman who I didn't even know his name.

Bring over a copy of the July 6 Inaba memo. I had not read this, actually, the details of it, today.

Mr. Inaba, this is one of the most embarrassing documents I have ever seen. Your -- in your preparation of this, you embarrassed all the people I represent, those hardworking people across this country.

This is absolutely appalling, sir, that you would identify -- and I know you were on the job only a few days -- but key safety issues, and identify as one of them -- on page 14 of the document you prepared, you identified the problem of the safety issue with regard to this, these -- these pedals.

Then, on page 16, wins for Toyota Safety Group? How could you possibly put in writing this and list as wins for Toyota? It -- it -- particularly under the defects entry and negotiated equipment recall on Camry ES, SA, saved $100 million with no defect found?

I think you have done a great injustice, sir, in -- in this. I don't know if it was -- it is not a rookie mistake. Obviously, you have been with the company. But to prepare this document, to undermine the good working people and the reputation -- Toyota has an outstanding reputation, and actually has had a great safety record. But this discredits everyone.

How would you respond, sir?

INABA: Yes, sir.

First of all, let me get the facts straight. This is the -- only few days after my arrival to the company. And then..

MICA: Had you been with Toyota before?

INABA: Yes, I had been.

MICA: How long?

INABA: Forty years in total, sir.

But this is after two years of absence away from Toyota. I also first became the president of Toyota North America. And then I visited one of the few days to Washington office. I had no idea what the company was, and that is why our staff wanted to give me an orientation material.

MICA: I was stunned to find your name on the front page.

INABA: Addressed to me.

MICA: I did not know that until today.

INABA: Yes, sir. OK.

And the point is that, you know, I was in the middle of orientation tour. Yes, I mean, I did not make it very clear. My name is on it. It is presented to me, not me made it. That's all I want --

MICA: But you were aware of this. This is present -- again, this is information you had and your company prepared.

If, in the future, any company prepared a document like this and presented it to anyone in the company, to me, it would be -- to me, it would be one of the most injurious things you could do to anyone's reputation.

I know it says on the side confidential and all of that. But do you realize the people that have been let down, me, the people in my district who go to work every day in those Toyota operations, the sales? And, already, you've -- the reputation has been severely damaged by what has been done here.

INABA: I -- honestly, with my honesty, I do not recall the meeting in any depth. But, at the same time, now I see that. I think I must say to you that it is so inconsistent with the guiding principle of Toyota and my feeling is. And, therefore --

(CROSSTALK)

MICA: It's -- just, to me, it is unbelievable.

INABA: Yes, I feel the same.

MICA: Finally, Mr. Toyoda, you are in charge of the company, and have that responsibility. Can you assure the committee that this is not the approach, this will not be the approach of Toyota now or in the future?

INABA: Because now I am getting more familiar, I am president of that company, I am going to rectify that, if there is any --

(CROSSTALK)

TOWNS: The gentleman's time has --

MICA: I asked my question to Mr. Toyoda.

TOWNS: The gentleman's time has expired.

And let me just make an announcement before we move any further. There is a vote on the floor. And it is actually three votes. And we plan to continue.

And, of course, the gentlewoman from Washington, D.C., will assume the chair.

So -- but I also want to let the gentleman know that his time has long expired. MICA: Yes, sir.

And if Mr. Toyoda could just answer.

TOYODA (through translator): I do not know about that specific document you referred to. And I do not know the comment.

However, generally speaking, when a new person takes office as president, it is customarily done in many divisions to make presentations on various contents and substances going on in the company.

However, generally speaking, the substance and contents of such documents does not affect the entire company in a way to cause drifting of the company itself.

ELEANOR HOLMES NORTON (D), WASHINGTON, D.C. DELEGATE: The gentleman from Ohio, Mr. Kucinich, has five minutes.

You can or you -- if you only have a few minutes left. I am calling on people who are left. Well, I am going to go to Mr. Connolly then, since it goes on his side.

We are.

Mr. Connolly, you have five minutes.

REP. GERRY CONNOLLY (D), VIRGINIA: Thank you, Madam Chairman.

Mr. Toyoda, welcome to the committee.

When did it first come to your attention that there was a problem with acceleration of your vehicles?

TOYODA (through translator): I was appointed president in July. And there is a major difference between the sort of information I had received prior to assuming the position of president and the information I get to receive after becoming president. And therefore, there may be some difference between the information that company may have had as a company and the information I personally had as president.

However, I will state whatever I know, and even in those cases where I do not know or I do not have any knowledge of, I will look into the matter and supply the report to you.

So, responding to specifically to your question of when, I would say sometime toward the end of last year.

CONNOLLY: Toward the end of 2009?

TOYODA (through translator): That is correct.

CONNOLLY: Were you aware of the fact that there had been complaints by consumers long before that time? TOYODA (through translator): Right now, I am aware of that. However, did I have that sort of information before I became president? I didn't have that sort of information with the same degree of accuracy that I do now.

CONNOLLY: But you had some awareness. We just heard from Secretary LaHood prior to your testimony, and he talked about the fact that NHTSA sent a team to Tokyo to meet with the top leadership of Toyota to bring to their attention as forcefully as they could the fact that there was a problem and that it needed to be attended to.

That meeting was prior to your testimony just now that you only learned about this problem in December of last year. Were you not aware of the fact that NHTSA had sent a team to Tokyo headquarters?

TOYODA (through translator): On that specific point, that was a matter handled by the division in charge of quality assurance. And a certain person in that division I understand received the visit from NHTSA representatives and had discussions with them. I know that. However, I do not know the specific content of the discussion nor the timing of that meeting.

SANCHEZ: All right. Listen, I want to catch you up who may just now be getting home from work.

I'm Rich Sanchez. I'm here with Ali Velshi, also our correspondent in Japan is Kyung Lah and she will catch us up about a part of a story -- by the way, this is as big a story as we've seen internationally in quite some time.

I should tell you that this hearing that we are watching here so diligently here in this country on most of the American networks is also being broadcast as we speak in Japan. There seems to be -- and Ali, let me bring you in and -- there could be a line of questions that result in culpability on the part Toyota, A, that there was a record of these problems before we started to report on it here in the United States that they did not pay enough attention to.

And, B, that when they finally found out that there was a problem, they did everything they could do to minimize it and minimize the cost to them, including a quote where they just nailed the CEO of North America saying, a list that he had received, that said "wins for Toyota, we have got fewer recalls than we had to actually put out."

ALI VELSHI, CNN CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Right. So the questioning that is going on right this minute is trying to determine when did they know and what did they know? The CEO, Akio Toyoda, the grandson of the founder, is answering right now, saying we had people at Toyota who knew. I didn't know. He has accepted responsibility, but denying he knew.

SANCHEZ: Accepting responsibility for the company but not for himself and certainly put it on some of the underlings. In fact, there is a lot of blaming going on here of others in the company.

VELSHI: Right. The president of Toyota North America sitting right next to him, said he didn't write that memo, he received the memo that said "wins for Toyota." And the CEO said that the guy in charge of the quality assurance knew from NHTSA there was a problem, but he didn't know. So they are forcing it down.

SANCHEZ: We will try to get a commercial in and hopefully when we come back I will be able to join my colleague Kyung Lah who is standing by in Japan, and she will give us a perspective on this that many of us as Americans probably would not understand, everything from body language to the concerns of the Japanese economy.

Stay right there, we will be right back with more on THE LIST

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: Welcome back. I'm Rick Sanchez.

Who says there is no drama in business news? There certainly is on this day. Ali Velshi, my colleague, is joining me, and we will team wrap this thing for you.

I think the first thing we should do for you since many of you are just now coming home from work and you may have missed the moment, so-to-speak, is when the grandfather of Mr. Toyoda, himself, Akio Toyoda actually came before the men and women of the congressional hearing in Washington, D.C. and apologized to the people of the United States.

I want to play that for you now. Here it is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TOYODA (through translator): I am deeply sorry for any accident that Toyota drivers have experienced.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: I want to do this, I want to go out to Japan now. Kyung Lah is our correspondent, and she is watching this. His body language, his demeanor -- this is a man that from everything I have read has not lived a very public life, in fact, is very, very private. It is a rare moment for him to be seen in public.

I don't think that she can hear me. She is pointing to the ear. Well, Angie, see if you can fix that up a little bit, and as soon as you can get it --

VELSHI: But I will tell you that Kyung was keeping us posted, and she'll tell you better in her own language, but she definitely said people in Japan are very concerned because this is an export market made in Japan and Toyota is central to that. So if Toyota develops a bad reputation around the world, this is Japan's economy.

SANCHEZ: How big is it for this guy, the guy whose name is on the cars to come forward and apologize to the American people, and take questions like -- in fact, before you answer that -- take questions like this. Let's play, who was that? It was John Mica from Florida, hammers this guy with almost a tinge of disrespect. You decide for yourself. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. JOHN MICA (R), FLORIDA: This is indeed a very embarrassing day for the United States National Highway Safety Transportation Administration. It is equally a very embarrassing day for Toyota to have the son of the founder of Toyota here as the chief officer to come before the United States congress.

I am embarrassed for you, sir. I am embarrassed for my dealers that I have talked to. I am embarrassed for thousands of people, hardworking Americans who work in, I guess, over 10 plants across the United States.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: "I am embarrassed for you, sir." Ali, he was referring to a specific note that had been received by --

VELSHI: By the president of the Toyota North America. The man sitting sent to him.

SANCHEZ: Exactly, the CEO in charge of just the United States, not Europe or Japan. He received a letter that said there were wins for Toyota when the scandal broke out and that one of them included the fact that they were going to keep the recalls to a minimum. That does not look good. That doesn't look good.

VELSHI: Right. And this is a guy who just came on the job, and says I got this memo to get me up to speed with what is going on, and under the column "wins for Toyota," it basically bragged about how Toyota saved a lot of money by having this recall that we are all discussing limited, that they convinced others not to have a big recall that was going to very expensive. That was listed under "wins for Toyota."

SANCHEZ: That makes it seem like they are covering their own backside more than they are concerned about the American consumer.

VELSHI: It's one shy of a smoking gun, because what it doesn't say is win for Toyota, we convince the U.S. government that this wasn't as serious as it is. It could mean that they didn't think it was as serious as it is, but the bottom line, when you look at something like that and call it a win, it is embarrassing.

So yes, and Kyung will tell us better, but he is also more akin to royalty in Japan than he is to a big businessman.

SANCHEZ: Kyung, can you hear me now?

KYUNG LAH, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: I can hear you, yes.

SANCHEZ: Good. There was a moment after that point was made, and I don't know if you followed along, right after that point was made, and that's after Mr. Yoshimi Inaba was essentially scolded by Congressman John Mica.

And then they asked Mr. Toyoda to speak, and as he started to speak and the translator started to translate for him, he would not look at Mr. Inaba and Mr. Inaba had his head down almost as if he knew that he was in a bit of hot water here. Did I read that body language right?

LAH: Well, it's kind of hard to figure out exactly what is the relationship between these two men specifically when we're talking about the note.

But we can assure you that the note does not portray this company in the best light, especially in this particular forum, because this particular note does have Inaba's name on it, it does say it is a win for Toyota, and this does concern a lot of people because there are all of these allegations that Toyota is not paying attention to perhaps the root cause.

There are all of these questions about the electronics of the accelerator -- is that causing the unwanted acceleration of these vehicles? So this note cannot be making them happy. So that, we can know that for sure.

SANCHEZ: I want to know more, by the way, about Mr. Toyoda, and I can't wait for you to share your perspective on this from -- a Japanese perspective on this, which is very different, from what I have been reading your notes from what you have been sending us today, different from the American perspective.

But let me point out something, because you just mentioned something. Everything that we have heard, Kyung and Ali, is that with all of the new models of the cars that have had problem, they are going to be implementing a shut-off valve, which essentially -- you describe it.

VELSHI: The bottom line is cars were accelerating, and whether it was a floor mat or electronic or whatever it was, you could not stop the car from accelerating. People were slamming the brakes and the car kept accelerating.

So the new cars will come out with a system so that if the brake and the gas pedal are down at the same time, the car will shut off.

SANCHEZ: But here is the key point, "new cars."

VELSHI: This is not a fix for the existing cars.

SANCHEZ: Well, do we have a fix for the existing cars yet? Could you tell from what he said?

VELSHI: It has not been underscored and clear. He said there is nothing to worry about it and they are on it, but they have not directly addressed this particular issue. Yesterday, the head of sales for the U.S. for Toyota did address it. He said that it is not an electronic problem, so we don't have to worry about this.

SANCHEZ: Well, they said that they are doing all kinds of stuff, including adding a U.S. product executive, an American, as he pointed out, who is going to coordinate all of this stuff and get to the bottom of it. But in the meantime, I haven't heard it.

VELSHI: I haven't heard the definitive we are on top of this. That is not what it is. It is fine.

SANCHEZ: We have some breaking news coming in as well. Stay here, stay here, because I want to stay on top of this. There is a lot to find out from the Toyota hearing. As that hearing continues, we will monitor it.

We also have breaking news coming in from Sea World, Orlando. Apparently, Shamu the whale has killed the trainer. You heard that right. His trainer has been killed by Shamu the whale in Disneyworld. What an interesting story.

VELSHI: Wow!

SANCHEZ: Angie was literally telling me the story as I shared it with the viewers. This is file video by the way.

Let's do this -- let's try to get a break in. I will try to get the information to you, I'll find out how it happened, and you can maybe help me with that during the break. We'll stay on top of the Toyota stories and there is a whole bevy of stuff that we want to bring you, as well.

It is 45 after the hour, and this is THE LIST. I'm Rick Sanchez, and we are scrolling on.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: Welcome back, I'm Rick Sanchez.

We are just trying to kind of get the information out for you as far as this situation we learned about just moments ago. This is in Orlando, Florida. Many of you have probably visited Sea World or parks like Sea World throughout the United States, Sea World being the most famous.

We have some file video at least we can show you to give you a reference point of what we are talking about. This is one of those acts that you see from time to time where the killer whales, in this case, this is Shamu Stadium, and the whales that, the killer whales at Shamu Stadium perform, they're trained by specific trainers who work with them, by the way, for years and years.

And we have always learned and been told being from Florida myself that they develop an affinity for the whale and know the whale. Well, the information that we're getting now from Orange County fire rescue there in Shamu Stadium, in fact in Sea World, that this afternoon the whale, Shamu, although, there are often more than one Shamus, you should know, literally grabbed its female trainer by the waist, thrashed her around, and eventually took the trainer apparently underwater.

A local TV station is reporting that the female trainer was killed after she was grabbed by one of the theme park's whales at the start of the public show.

All right, these are live pictures that we are getting in now from Sea World, live pictures that we are getting in from the venue there. That's Shamu Stadium. We would imagine, although I can't confirm to you, that that is the whale that was actually involved in the situation. But that is, in fact, Shamu stadium.

From the way this is reading, and Brooke Baldwin is good enough to join me now to kind of bring us up to date on what's going on here, but it looks like that thing happened just before it started.

You can't really tell from the reading of this, but it almost sounds like it thrashed her around and then took her underwater so that she -- you know, obviously we don't know the cause of death yet. That's up to autopsy, but he may have well have drowned her, I guess.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It sounds like. I've raced out here, forgive me, to pass you that information because this is really just coming in.

And it looks like just from a quick read that this happened at the beginning of the show, and that their focus, I guess, was evacuating from the people from outside of this exhibition area at Sea World. But we at CNN are in contact with the Orange County Fire and Rescue to find out what happened, what they know, and then we'll of course pass that along.

SANCHEZ: Hold on. We've got some -- you know what we should do?

BALDWIN: What should we do?

SANCHEZ: It happened right before the performance.

BALDWIN: Right before.

SANCHEZ: Angie was saying that in my ear, which I think had come in on that original report.

It would also be great if we could get ourselves -- we'll try to do this for you no doubt -- somebody who is an expert on training animals, someone like Ron McGill at the Metro Zoo in south Florida who's got all kinds of degrees and a lot of expertise on this. We'll see who we can come up with who can take us through this, because it is somewhat perplexing.

In the meantime, let me read to you what Angie just sent me. This is from CNN wires, and it's essentially confirming that a killer whale killed a trainer Wednesday afternoon at Sea World in Orlando in Orange County.

The spokesperson saying the trainer was pronounced dead on the scene. The incident did not occur during a performance. It said the spokesperson at Sea World who added that the information was to be released shortly -- well, it happened prior to the performance.

And I will tell you this from all my trips to Sea World and other parks where I've taken my kids, and we do this every year, people start gathering there way before the performance anyway. So just because it didn't happen before the performance doesn't mean --

BALDWIN: People weren't there.

SANCHEZ: -- that it may not have been witnessed by people who were in the area or in the park at the same time. Although we can't confirm that, it would not be unreasonable for that to be the case.

So we have two big stories going on right now. The grandson of Mr. Toyoda, the founder of Toyota, is testifying before Congress. We're carefully monitoring that information for you and we will continue to do so, including sharing his apologies.

And we're also now following this breaking story coming to us out of Orlando, Florida, where a trainer has been killed by one of the Shamu whales there at Shamu Stadium at Sea World.

We're going to be right back. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: Welcome back.

The information that we're getting is one of the killer whales there in Sea World, one of the Shamu whales, I suppose we can say, because oftentimes they call a lot of them Shamu even though there may be more than one, just like they used to do in the old days with Flipper, for example -- according to reports, one of the killer whales at Sea World has killed its trainer.

Apparently it grabbed the trainer, according to the reports that we're getting, and started thrashing her around. And the trainer was declared dead there on the scene, as a matter of fact. Guests have been evacuated. The park has been shut down. And I imagine quite a scene going on there as this thing was happening at Sea World.

We're going to obviously keep monitoring that story for you. What we hope so do is hope to be able to see if we can get a guest that can give us some information on how something like this can come about. These animals are trained for years and years and years. They develop a very close relationship with their trainer. Why would something like that happen?

Let's go back to the hearing now. This is the grandson -- this is -- Eleanor Holmes Norton is now grilling grandson of the founder of Toyota.

Let's dip in.

(JOINED IN PROGRESS)

NORTON: -- that I went straight away to Toyota. Why? I didn't ask how much it cost. I was relying on the extraordinary reputation for quality and safety that had been built over generations. So I ask you, Mr. Toyoda, is there any chance that the Camry hybrid will be recalled for any reason?

YOSHIMI INABA, COO TOYOTA MOTOR NORTH AMERICA & CEO TOYOTA SALES USA: First of all, let me step in. First of all, chairman, you are driving American car. It is produced --

NORTON: It's got Mr. Toyoda's name on it.

(LAUGHTER)

INABA: That's right.

NORTON: You don't want to claim it anymore? You are disclaiming the car.

INABA: No.

NORTON: It was the Americans' fault.

INABA: No, no. Please. First of all, and also now Camry hybrid is not on the recall list.

NORTON: No. And I just want to find out if you expect it ever to be on the recall list for any reason.

INABA: I think you will be very safe and -- you know, driving the car. So that's all I wanted to just step in before Mr. --

NORTON: You stand behind the Camry hybrid, Mr. Toyoda?

SANCHEZ: All right. The reason she's asking this question is because she just pointed out, as she started speaking, that she personally drives a Camry, and she wants to know if it's going to be put on a recall list, as well.

Let's listen back in.

TOYODA (through translator): Right now, it is completely safe. And every day as customers continue to use those vehicles, they may come up with new findings. But as I said, it's 100 percent safe at the moment.

And for the customers to be able to feel safe in the car and so that ourselves be able to sincerely receive any voices of the customers anywhere in the world, we are now putting in place the structure worldwide to capture customers' voices wherever in the world.

And we will listen to those customers' voices very humbly and modestly so that they will continue to be safe in their vehicles.

NORTON: Thank you.

INABA: Chairwoman, can I have one more --

NORTON: Yes, Mr. Inaba?

INABA: It was I'm afraid misunderstood. The Camry hybrid is produced here, and the vast majority of the parts are coming from United States. So that is what I meant as American car.

NORTON: I just don't know what difference that makes. You need to explain that to me. Were the cars that have been recalled produced elsewhere, and that's the problem? Mine is safer because American workers did it and produced it?

I don't understand the distinction. The cars that had the problem were shipped from Japan or something?

INABA: No. The reason that I -- what I said why Camry hybrid is American car, because you did bought an American car. That's what I meant, which is produced here, supplied here, and then -- so that's all --

NORTON: Many Toyotas are produced here and supplied here, aren't they? We're pleased to have them produced and supplied here. But the worldwide reputation begins in Japan and stands behind wherever they're produced. Sometimes they're produced in Europe.

INABA: Very true.

NORTON: Mr. Toyoda, I was impressed with your opening remarks. In fact, I'm impressed with your being here, and --