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Rick's List
Interview With Kentucky Senatorial Candidate Rand Paul; Aftershocks Hit Chile; Senate Showdown Over Unemployment Benefits; Should New York Governor Resign?; Does Sex Addiction Exist?
Aired March 02, 2010 - 15:57 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
RICK SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR: There is a lot of news, including a new letter from the president of the United States to Congress telling them to incorporate or at least consider incorporating some of the Republicans' ideas from the last meeting they had.
There's also information coming out of Chile that there's been more aftershocks. And I'm going to be following that for you.
And here's what else we'll have coming up in just a bit.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ (voice-over): Here is what is making THE LIST.
Give 'em hell, Harry.
SEN. HARRY REID (D-NV), MAJORITY LEADER: My friend from Kentucky should get a different historian to help him with his facts, because they are simply wrong.
SANCHEZ: Is he calling Senator Jim Bunning a hypocrite?
SEN. JIM BUNNING (R), KENTUCKY: Well, I have the same right as any other senator here on the floor.
SANCHEZ: One man holding up legislation. Now it is a fight.
Did Democratic New York Governor David Paterson abuse his power on a case of abuse? Should he resign immediately?
The lists you need to know about. Who's "Today's Most Intriguing"? Who's making news on twitter? It's why I keep a list -- pioneering tomorrow's cutting-edge news right now.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ: I have talked to the father on this show. Now I'm going to talk to the son. All that is missing is the Holy Spirit. Here he is. His name is Rand Paul.
And he's going enough to join him (sic).
Pop him up there. There he is.
I understand you're a doctor as well, right?
RAND PAUL (R), KENTUCKY SENATORIAL CANDIDATE: I am.
SANCHEZ: So, two doctors, as they say. Good for you.
Listen, hang tight. I want to take -- I want to take you and our viewers through a couple pieces of sound here. The first one is Jim Bunning. He's resolute. He ain't going to quit. He's sticking to his guns, no deal.
Here's the latest sound.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BUNNING: We want a country that don't owe everybody in the world for our existence. I don't -- and the question I have been asked mostly is, why now? Well, why not now? What better time for it?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: All right.
Now here's Mitch McConnell. He came out today to talk about something he really didn't want to talk about, which was this. But he was asked nonetheless, and he made this comment.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R-KY), MINORITY LEADER: MCCONNELL: I know what you're asking me about. What I'm telling you is, we're in the process of working this out and --
QUESTION: But what of the people who haven't gotten their checks?
(CROSSTALK)
MCCONNELL: We're in the process of working this out, and hopefully it will be resolved in the near future.
Are there any questions on any other subject?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(LAUGHTER)
SANCHEZ: You always know a politician doesn't want to be talking about something when he's asking if there's any other questions on another subject.
(LAUGHTER)
SANCHEZ: Dr. Rand Paul, what is your take on this?
Look, 400,000 Americans apparently could be affected by this if they stall it anymore? You agree with Mr. -- with pitcher Bunning, right?
PAUL: I think our country is drowning in a sea of debt, and they won't even obey their own rules.
They said they were going to do pay as you go two weeks ago, and it's only been two weeks, and now they're already breaking their own rules. We have the money already spent in the stimulus package. I say we take $10 billion out of the stimulus package. Let's don't go further in debt as a country.
SANCHEZ: Well, a lot of folks will look at this and say, look, of all the things where you want to delay and decide that you don't want to spend on, I mean, this really affects people right in the pocketbook, hundreds of thousands of people, potentially. After all the money that we have wasted and thrown away on other things, this is where we're going to -- this is where we're going to draw the line?
PAUL: Yes. Well, I'm not saying we don't spend it. Neither is Senator Bunning. He's saying that let's take the money from money already allocated.
The deficit spirals out of control because government says, oh, we're not going to spend any new money, without either, you know, raising taxes or lowering spending somewhere else, we're going to do pay as you go, and then, a week later, they say, oh, this is an emergency.
Well, it is important, but they could have, last week, had a vote. They could have a vote right now. I say, Harry Reid, come back to town and let's have a vote. But let's vote on whether or not we take the money from the stimulus package or and don't add anything to the debt, or whether we have to add $10 billion in new debt.
SANCHEZ: Is this a smart move for you? I'm looking at the stats on your state.
(LAUGHTER)
SANCHEZ: You look -- I'm looking here at 10 percent unemployment. How do you justify to the people in the state of Kentucky, where you want to be a senator, that they should bite their lip and not do anything about the fact that they may be losing their unemployment benefits as a result of this move by Bunning, which you are supporting?
PAUL: Well, I'm not arguing that they lose their benefits. What I'm arguing is, let's have a vote. Let's have a vote today, but let's have a vote today on either increasing the debt --
SANCHEZ: Yes.
PAUL: -- or taking the money from already existing money. They could have a vote right now, today. Why aren't they doing it?
SANCHEZ: Because they're -- found a pincushion in the Republican Party, who looks -- (LAUGHTER)
SANCHEZ: -- who like --
(CROSSTALK)
(LAUGHTER)
PAUL: You're -- you're right.
(LAUGHTER)
(CROSSTALK)
PAUL: You're right. Their political gamesmanship -- it's gamesmanship. And the Democrats love kicking Senator Bunning around.
But, to tell you the truth, he's taking a principled stand, and he's not opposing the benefits. He's saying, let's don't add to the debt. We are drowning as the country. Our joblessness is from the debt.
So, adding to the debt makes our country in worse shape. Let's don't add to the debt. Let's take the money from money we have already spent in the stimulus package.
SANCHEZ: But you know what people -- people won't have this problem with you, because you're a fresh face, and your father has been very consistent on spending.
But, in Senator Bunning's case -- and I think you can understand this from the left -- and he's been criticized, by the way, as much from the right as he is from the left. But you can understand the folks on the left side.
If you were so serious about making sure that our country didn't spend too much, then why did you go along with the Bush tax cuts?
PAUL: Right.
SANCHEZ: Why did you go along with borrowing all this money from the Chinese, and the Brazilians, and the Indians for -- for -- for -- for tens of 20 years, to have the war in Iraq, for example?
PAUL: Well, you're right.
I mean, the American people and the Tea Party movement don't like hypocrisy on either side of the aisle. And we did. As Republicans, we doubled the debt from $5 trillion to $10 trillion.
But I say it in every Republican picnic I go to, every Lincoln Day dinner. I say, look, we didn't do a very good job. But it's not that we just give up. It's that we try to do better and we try to regain our believability as fiscal conservatives.
But it really should be pay as you go. The Democrats wanted pay as you go, and now they're not abiding by their own rules.
SANCHEZ: Do you agree with your father? Every time I speak to your dad, he says that one of the biggest mistakes we have made in this country is that we keep thinking we have got to go around taking care of everybody else's business; we should stop this empire-building business, your dad's direct quote, and start worrying about Americans.
Do you agree with that?
PAUL: Well, I think what we have to do is, we have to admit, first, that we're out of money, and we have to then decide, where's our priority?
I think what we have to do is, we have to decide what is in our national security and what is not. And that's going -- that's going to be difficult decisions somewhere along the road, but I think, in order to balance the budget, you have to look at the entire budget, not just one segment of the budget.
SANCHEZ: You -- do you agree with the Democrats that health care could actually cut something like $100 million in -- billion dollars -- pardon me -- in -- in -- in the deficit?
PAUL: No.
I think that, when you talk about a government program, a new trillion-dollar program, and you say we're going to collect all this money through waste and fraud and efficiency, I say show me the first government program that ever came in under budget.
Government programs are notorious for cost overruns and for being two and three times bigger. So, no, I don't believe it at all. I think the Democrats have a point, though, when they say Republicans are hypocritical who voted for the Medicare prescription drug plan, though, because that was a trillion-dollar plan.
So, we do have to be more credible as Republicans, and we have to opposed spending. I used to always tell my Republican congressman here locally, you get an A-plus for cutting my taxes, but you get a D- minus for cutting spending. That's the problem Republicans had, is, we didn't cut spending either.
But I think Senator Bunning is on the right track here. Pay as you go. Let's not borrow more money for unemployment benefits. Let's take it out of existing money that we have already spent.
SANCHEZ: So, you would -- are you running as a -- by the way, we're talking with Rand Paul, the son of Ron Paul?
Does that bother you when I say that?
PAUL: No, not at all, not at all.
SANCHEZ: You're -- you're proud of your dad, are you?
PAUL: Very much so. I think the -- the neat thing about my dad is the his vote is not for sale or rent. People may not always agree with him, but they know that he's not for sale. And so many of our congressmen -- I mean, we had a prominent senator in this health care bill --
SANCHEZ: Uh-huh.
PAUL: -- that I think basically I think sold his soul for a $100 billion special privilege --
SANCHEZ: A lot of them.
PAUL: -- that was clearly unconstitutional for his state.
SANCHEZ: A lot of them on both -- can you do me a favor? I know you're having a tough time with your earpiece. I want to ask you just a few more questions.
(LAUGHTER)
SANCHEZ: Get -- we will get that --
PAUL: All right.
SANCHEZ: We will take a break. We will get that fixed. Then we will come back, first time we have had you on.
PAUL: All right. Thanks.
SANCHEZ: I think -- I think people are interested in what you have to say.
PAUL: All right.
SANCHEZ: Dr. Rand Paul, the son of Ron Paul, he is joining us, going through a couple more issues here.
And we're going to be right back. Stay right there, folks. We will be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Welcome back. I'm Rick Sanchez.
We're talking to Rand Paul. His dad, we had him on the -- we had your dad on the show just last week.
I mean, curious about a couple of things with you. First of all, you mentioned it, so I want to -- I want to -- I want to stay with this topic of the lobbying, the unbelievable amounts of money that are being paid from certain industries into the campaign coffers of certain politicians, both on the left and on the right.
Some industries tend to give more of their money to the Dems. Some industries, health care, tends to give more of their money to Republicans over the last decade or so. What do you make of that? And how are you going to deal with that if you get elected?
PAUL: Well, I think I have a cure for it, actually, that will pass constitutional muster.
What I would do is, on every federal contract, I would have a clause. And it says, if you accept this clause, you voluntarily give up the right to lobby, you voluntarily give up the right to give PAC contributions. And I would have the top 20 officers sign it also and, individually, voluntarily give up their right to give contributions. I would also have --
SANCHEZ: What do you mean? I don't understand. You mean -- you mean -- hold on. Who are you -- are you talking about the businesses that would have to give it up, because --
PAUL: I'm talking about -- I'm talking about people who do business with the federal government.
SANCHEZ: Ah.
PAUL: For example, we have -- we have big business that get billion-dollar no-bid contracts with the government. They take their first million dollars and they buy a lobbyist. The lobbyist then goes and asks for more money. It's a vicious cycle.
(LAUGHTER)
PAUL: So, I would say, if you want to do business with the federal government, what I would say is, let's have a clause in the contract -- and it's a voluntary clause -- you don't have to do business with the government, but, if you do, then you give up certain things.
We have that already. For example, if you voluntarily join the military, you give up the right to certain types of campaigning. If you voluntarily become a federal employee, the Hatch Act gives up certain campaigning.
SANCHEZ: Interestingly enough, I mean, the king of this was Dick Cheney. And, as vice president, he made sure there were tons of no- bid contracts, where people were not allowed to bid, and yet those that did bid were defense contractors, some of which had associations with him in the past, and still do in some cases.
Why weren't Republicans appalled about that type of exercise, many people ask?
PAUL: Well, I think -- I think there needs to be more consistency.
And I do tell people I think the most important thing the federal government does is national defense, but that doesn't mean all spending is for national defense, just because it has a military name on -- associated with it.
And I think even other -- some conservatives realize this, too. John McCain will vote against some of the procurements in the military that he thinks is wasteful.
SANCHEZ: Uh-huh.
PAUL: So, I think you can be pro-national defense and also be for cutting out some of the waste, fraud and spending throughout our budget.
But, you know, you talk about whether we pay things overseas. For example, the workers' benefits for unemployment are about $10 billion. We give $26 billion in foreign aid to countries. There's plenty of money that we could find in other parts of the budget for our workers. Let's don't be sending it to other workers overseas.
SANCHEZ: By the way, your opponent is Trey Grayson. He is also in favor of what Bunning is doing. And we want to let his side know that we would be more than happy to have him on and have this conversation.
Finally, are you a true Republican, or do you lean more as a libertarian?
(LAUGHTER)
PAUL: Well, I registered as a Republican when I was 18.
SANCHEZ: Yes.
PAUL: I voted in every Republican primary. In fact, I attended the 1976 Republican Convention.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: But do you -- but do you lean more as a libertarian?
PAUL: I like the Republican platform. If you look at the Republican platform, it's actually good. It's very fiscally conservative. It's very much for limited government.
Things like the bank bailout are directly contrary to our -- our platform.
SANCHEZ: Uh-huh.
PAUL: So, I think our platform, if we followed it, we would be consistently fiscally conservative.
SANCHEZ: Yes.
PAUL: I think Republicans aren't always fiscally conservative, mainly because we don't follow our platform.
SANCHEZ: Rand Paul -- Dr. Rand Paul, I should say -- daddy's son --
PAUL: Thanks for having me.
SANCHEZ: -- and he's running for the Senate seat left behind Jim -- the controversial Jim Bunning in Kentucky.
Thank you, sir, for taking the time to talk to us.
PAUL: Thank you.
SANCHEZ: All right.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Some people will say, wow, what a guy. He managed to meet women in elevators and have sex with them?
UNIDENTIFIED ADMITTED SEX ADDICT: Yes.
COHEN: What would you say?
UNIDENTIFIED ADMITTED SEX ADDICT: It was not fun at all. It's just not -- not a good time.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Confessions of a sex addict or an excuse artist? You're going to meet a guy who says he is an addict. And we're going to give him a fair hearing. But is he just irresponsible?
Speaking of what some consider to be a made-up disease, Tiger Woods is out of family counseling and he back at home.
And are David Paterson's days numbered? We're going to have the latest on the New York governor under tremendous pressure to quit.
I'm going to be right back. Stay right there.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: There's been a Tiger Woods spotting at his Isleworth, Florida, home.
Now, the source is a person who says, "I prefer not to be identified," but he has said that he has knowledge of Tiger's schedule. Woods is working on getting back to his routine. Apparently, he's back in his home. He's done with his rehab -- golfing and working out. He's been hitting golf balls near his home. The source won't reveal when Tiger might compete again.
Woods publicly apologized a week-and-a-half ago for irresponsible and selfish behavior, left open the possibility of a return to pro golf, possibly this year, which would be highly expected, because, you know, it's in his blood. He's good at the game.
But the whole Tiger story has brought us to this: sex addiction. Is it real, or is it an excuse for someone who just wants to be irresponsible?
Senior medical correspondent Elizabeth Cohen has been looking into this. And she actually found a guy who is a -- and most people wouldn't go on record and say this about themselves -- this guy is a self-described sex addict, right?
COHEN: Oh, yes. He says he's a sex addict. He wants his identity hidden -- you will see that when you hear from him -- because it would ruin his -- he says it would ruin his life if people knew it. But his wife knows. His kids know.
And he says that it was a real addiction.
SANCHEZ: Hmm.
COHEN: It wasn't just like he wanted to cheat on his wife. But he cheated with a lot of women. So, shall we hear the first one?
SANCHEZ: Let's go.
COHEN: All right. Let's hear from him.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COHEN: In your first 20 years of marriage, how many women did you have affairs with?
UNIDENTIFIED ADMITTED SEX ADDICT: I think it's about 30 to 35.
COHEN: And then there were prostitutes in addition?
UNIDENTIFIED ADMITTED SEX ADDICT: Yes.
COHEN: And then there was pornography in addition?
UNIDENTIFIED ADMITTED SEX ADDICT: Yes.
COHEN: Why couldn't you be faithful?
UNIDENTIFIED ADMITTED SEX ADDICT: I tried to be. I tried. You're just completely powerless against this thing that takes you over. Whether you want to call it an addiction or a disorder, whatever label you want to put on it, there's no choice.
COHEN: How would I feel if you didn't have sex? How would that make you feel?
UNIDENTIFIED ADMITTED SEX ADDICT: You know, you would get the case shakes. It's really a classic case where you need the drug.
COHEN: Is it like meth or heroin?
UNIDENTIFIED ADMITTED SEX ADDICT: There's a lot of parallels, at least in terms of the -- the chemistry. You need a hit, right? And you want to attain that hit for as long as you can.
COHEN: What was the longest you could go without the need to have an orgasm?
UNIDENTIFIED ADMITTED SEX ADDICT: Probably a day or two, a couple days. And, then, on that third day, you just go crazy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Now, here's the question. OK, he says he's a sex addict. And it sounds impressive. But the American Psych -- Psychiatric Association says, no such thing --
COHEN: Well, the --
SANCHEZ: -- as sex addiction.
COHEN: The DSM-IV, which is sort of the bible for psychiatrists -- it lists all the diagnoses -- does not have sex addiction --
SANCHEZ: Right.
COHEN: -- as an actual disorder, but I'll tell you, I talk to many psychiatrists who believe that it really is. And they -- when they bill it, they bill it as impulsive behavior, as something else. And even --
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: Well, yes. But anybody can have a compulsion. I mean, I -- I bite my nails. Some people can't stop going to the refrigerator every two minutes.
Some people --
COHEN: Right.
SANCHEZ: Every -- everybody has something. This guy's thing is that.
But the idea of creating a disease and calling it something for a guy -- I would like to rob every bank I see, because I would like to have all the money in the world. But I don't, because I know I shouldn't.
COHEN: Right. And that's --
SANCHEZ: But I respect my wife.
COHEN: And --
SANCHEZ: And, you know, that -- that's just the way I am. I mean --
COHEN: Right.
SANCHEZ: I go could cheat on her every day, and I would call it an addiction.
COHEN: Right. But what psychiatrists would say is, if you're doing something that's a problem in your life, and you can't stop it, you're an addict. So, this is a guy whose children, whose teenage children, found his stash of video porn, and he was horrified, but he kept doing it. This is a guy who woke up at 4:00 in the morning to watch three hours of porno before his wife woke up.
SANCHEZ: Geez.
COHEN: And he said he wanted to stop, he wanted to stop, he wanted to stop, and he couldn't.
SANCHEZ: Well, what -- what --
COHEN: And, actually --
SANCHEZ: What's he doing now?
COHEN: He's working. He's been through a treatment program similar to the ones that Woods is said to have attended. And he has gotten beyond his addiction. It took him a lot of work, but he did.
But he said -- what was interesting to me is that he said it wasn't fun. It just got to this point where he was like a meth addict taking meth, and he didn't actually enjoy it.
So, let's listen to what he had to say about that.
SANCHEZ: All right. Let's -- yes, let's do.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COHEN: Some people will say, wow, what a guy. He managed to meet women in elevators and have sex with them?
UNIDENTIFIED ADMITTED SEX ADDICT: Yes.
COHEN: What would you say?
UNIDENTIFIED ADMITTED SEX ADDICT: It was not fun at all. It's just not -- not a good time.
When you get to that point, you have already tried to quit. You've already tried to modulate your behavior, to control aspects of it. Your life is completely out of control.
COHEN: A lot of guys just have affairs, but they're not sex addicts. How do you separate the two?
UNIDENTIFIED ADMITTED SEX ADDICT: For me, there's a physical aspect to -- to withdrawal. If you're going to orgasm five or six times a day, you're flooding your brain with a lot of chemicals. It's pretty powerful.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: What?
COHEN: Yes.
SANCHEZ: Flooding your brain with a lot of chemicals, is that what he's saying?
COHEN: That's what he's saying. He's saying that, when you need to have that feeling five or six times a day, it starts to run your life and it floods your brain with chemicals.
Now, I did talk to psychiatrists who said there's no such thing as sex addiction, but they do agree that, someone like this, if it's not addiction, maybe it's an obsession or a compulsion, and they do need professional help.
(CROSSTALK)
COHEN: So, even the shrinks who don't think it's an addiction say people like him do need professional help.
SANCHEZ: I think we can both certainly agree it can also be used as a likely excuse --
COHEN: Yes. And I --
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: -- and which is what -- by the way, you probably don't listen to sports talk as much as I do, but if you get on any radio in America and drive down the highways and byways, you will hear sports guys, one after another, and every caller saying that Tiger Woods is using this as an excuse --
COHEN: Well, you know, it's interesting.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: -- for his irresponsible behavior.
COHEN: Well, I don't think Tiger Woods has actually said that he's had a sex addiction, right?
SANCHEZ: Well, he's in a clinic.
COHEN: Right.
SANCHEZ: He's in a rehab clinic.
COHEN: Well, I mean, we don't -- we don't know --
(CROSSTALK)
(LAUGHTER)
SANCHEZ: What else would he be there for?
(LAUGHTER) COHEN: And when I ask psychiatrists who believe in sex addiction, do you think Tiger Woods was a sex addict based on what you have read in the media, they said, look, we don't know enough details.
If he is seeing woman after woman after woman, and going to look at pornography, that tells you something. If it's sort of an affair here and there, that's different.
SANCHEZ: Yes.
COHEN: It's the need to have constant affairs and to watch pornography. This guy was having sex all day --
SANCHEZ: You know --
COHEN: -- and then going to look at pornography. I mean --
SANCHEZ: -- your point is a good one, believe, when I looked this up, knowing we were going to have this conversation, that's what it said in the American Psychiatric Association. It said, we're not going to call someone having an affair a disease --
COHEN: Correct, absolutely.
SANCHEZ: -- nor should anybody even begin to do that.
Fascinating topic, though. I got to give it to you. You pushed us to do the story, and I'm glad we did it.
COHEN: Oh, good. Well, I'm glad.
SANCHEZ: Appreciate it. All right.
Time for today's most intriguing person in the news. Watch.
You know how you give a thumbs-up to something you like, right? Well, this guy was done that long before you were. In fact, he has been telling us which movies are good and which movies stink for more than 40 years.
But he's been fighting cancer for nearly a decade. And, after several surgeries, he can no longer speak, eat or drink. Today, he's showing off a new piece of technology to Oprah, a device that generates his voice for him using words that he has spoken over many, many years on television.
Today's most intriguing film critic, Roger Ebert. Listen to his words about this picture from a magazine cover -- quote -- "I got a jolt from the full-page photograph of my jaw drooping, not a lovely sight, but, then, I am not a lovely sight. In a moment, I thought, well, what the hell. It's just as well it's out there. That's how I look, after all."
He is punching back at cancer. That's Roger Ebert, today's most intriguing.
All right.
Up next, stick a fork in New York's governor. He's all but done. At least, that's what many state Democratic leaders groups are hinting at, if not asking him to do, leave, resign. We are going to have the latest on some of the efforts to oust David Paterson.
And then there's the story on "The Daily Show" last night about me. I'll show it to you. Stay right there.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
CALLER: Hey, Rick. Alan (ph) from Nebraska.
About this budget reconciliation, I think the Democrats should get something done. And when Republicans come into office, they can change it or do whatever they want.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Welcome back. I'm Rick Sanchez.
Two politicians who won't be running for reelection are dominating the political headlines today, interestingly enough.
And CNN's political correspondent, Jessica Yellin, is with us now from Washington to help us go through this whole situation with Senator Jim Bunning, who some have called -- what's the word that -- what's the word that Robert Gibbs used of him today?
JESSICA YELLIN, CNN NATIONAL POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Robert Gibbs called him irrational.
SANCHEZ: Irrational. Thank you very much.
And then there's Governor David Paterson, who abused his power, potentially, in a case of domestic abuse. I mean, that's like a double-damn whammy.
By the way, what do you -- what do you think? Is Paterson going to survive this, or is he going to have to step down?
YELLIN: You know, I think it really depends, first of all, whether there's another story from "The New York Times" and what else is to come next.
One of the challenges -- I talked to some Democrats in New York State who are very concerned about how the -- poorly this reflects on the party, but they say that he's so isolated, in such a small bubble, that it's very hard for establishment Democrats to get to him.
Who is he listening to is the big question. And, right now, the folks he seems to be listening to don't seem to be pushing him out the door. So, the big push would come if there's another story, another shoe to drop. And, so far, it hasn't happened, Rick. SANCHEZ: Let's just let the viewers know what he's accused of doing.
YELLIN: Yes.
SANCHEZ: I mean, his chief of staff is accused of domestic violence against a partner, a -- a woman. And it's quite serious.
This governor is accused of not only picking up the phone and trying to call the woman and getting her not to testify, which she didn't, because she didn't show up at the hearing, but he's also accused of asking his staff, police officers, state police officers, to go over and put some heat on her.
That's -- that's deplorable.
YELLIN: It's -- it's really upsetting.
And all -- you know, the National Organization for Women in New York State has come out and called for him to resign. Now, that's significant, because they were big supporters of his. They had said for years, throughout his years in public politics, he had been a fierce defender of not just women's rights, but domestic abuse victims' right.
SANCHEZ: Yes.
YELLIN: So, it has got just the most icky, unseemly feel to all of --
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: Well, and there's -- and there's also the judgment issue, you know?
YELLIN: Yes.
SANCHEZ: I mean, if he -- if he didn't have the -- the -- sense to not do that, then what else might he not have the sense to do that might represent the state of New York badly, as its leader, as its governor? And that's where the question of leadership comes in.
Let -- let me talk about Jim Bunning.
YELLIN: Yes.
SANCHEZ: I want to ask you about Jim Bunning --
YELLIN: OK.
SANCHEZ: -- because, you know, it almost looks like this guy has B.O. or something.
(LAUGHTER)
SANCHEZ: I mean, it's -- it's not just the Dems who are complaining about him, but it seems to me, for me, today, looking at this, like the folks who are angriest at him and want to stay the heck away from him are his own peers, the Republicans.
Why is that?
YELLIN: Right.
Well, Jim Bunning is a fellow -- Senator Bunning, I should say, is unpredictable, inconsistent, not always very friendly, to put it lightly, and does things that are quite politically tone-deaf, like this today -- can do things like this today. This is obviously not a very popular position for the Republican Party for take, to say that they want to stop unemployment benefits to folks who are hurting right now, when getting people jobs and a paycheck is the big message. There are other ways to say we should pay for things.
Democrats are pointing out that he has, in the past, not supported paying for measures that he has been in favor of. So he has not always a pay-go guy. Why is he doing this now? It's just politically uncomfortable for the Republicans.
SANCHEZ: And he's showing them up, isn't he? I mean, he knows that McConnell doesn't like him, and he knows that he's all but been forced out and that somebody else is going to take his job pretty soon.
He doesn't like the Dems, ain't crazy about the Republicans, so he's saying, you know what? I'm going to give you a piece of your own medicine. You guys ain't going to spend? Watch. I'm going to be the guy leading the charge. I'm going to make you all look bad.
YELLIN: Right. What has he got to lose now? He's not running. He's like, why not?
SANCHEZ: Exactly. It certainly seems that way, doesn't it?
All right, Jessica. We've got to go. Good to see you.
YELLIN: Good to see you.
SANCHEZ: I'm glad we got you at 4:00, if not at 3:00 today. Tomorrow, back at 3:00.
YELLIN: OK.
SANCHEZ: All right.
This --
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: So, for the record, if you want to stomp this out right here now on national television, do you believe the U.S. government played any role at all in 9/11?
DEBRA MEDINA, TEXAS GUBERNATORIAL CANDIDATE: I have made it very clear that I believe Muslim terrorists flew planes into those buildings. And I do not believe our government colluded with them or worked with them in any way. The question that I have alluded to and I've left open is those recognizing that there were questions raised by the 9/11 Commission.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: That is Debra Medina. Will she bring those theories into the Texas state capitol?
We're going to take a closer look at the wild governor's race that some are calling a GOP shootout in Texas, in the Longhorn State, and that our Congress may be gridlocked.
But these lawmakers are downright hostile. What's going on here? They're fighting over a bank scandal. And if you look outside, so are hundreds of other people as well. There was fighting inside, fighting outside, and all over a bailout. Imagine if Americans acted that way.
Now, Jon Stewart, have you seen what he did? Well, he was critical and made fun of me, and I'm going to show it to you.
Stay right there.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Welcome back. I'm Rick Sanchez, here in the world headquarters of CNN.
I've been monitoring the situation in Chile for you, and what I've been doing is actually listening from time to time as to what's going on with some of the feeds that are coming in from Chile, including our own sister station, CNN Chile, which we have down there that's been all over this story.
A little while ago, though, something happened, because one of the things that we've been most curious about in Chile is what happened along the coast. Yesterday we got a sense of at least one town, but just a little while ago, our Karl Penhaul arrived in another town where it got that double whammy of it was hit by the earthquake, and then about a minute later, the tsunami, because of the earthquake, came across, 15 feet of water or so, and just destroyed the entire city.
Here's Karl. He's sitting right there on Main Street telling us what happened. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KARL PENHAUL, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Because of the force of that water, concrete and brick construction, they withstood the earthquake, according to the inhabitants, but then were just crushed by the powers of the water. And so if I take you -- and I'll get Ken, or cameraman, to take you on a spin, a 360 or 180 spin around here, and look what is left of this town.
This town thrives on the fishing industry, but it's also a tourist result. Look at what is left -- nothing. Nothing.
Talking to one of the police officers who's on site here, he said to me -- he said about 80 percent of this town is now destroyed. He says what is left, he said, is hardly even good for firewood -- Rick.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ: That's amazing. I mean, that's the second time he's been sitting next to a boat. The one he was sitting next -- or standing next to, I should say, yesterday was like a 10-ton freighter.
Look, I've gotten a lot of grief about not knowing what nine meters is. It's 27 feet, according to a good professor.
Yes, I was kind of passionate on Saturday as well when I was called in to work to try and cover this earthquake and tsunami. Was I too passionate? Too revved up? Maybe.
Here's Jon Stewart.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JON STEWART, HOST, "THE DAILY SHOW": I just realized something. Rick Sanchez delivers the news like a guy at a party who's doing a lot of coke and traps you in a corner and explains really intensely how an ant is the strongest animal on Earth.
(LAUGHTER)
I'm telling you, man, they're tiny, but they carry a stick like 18 times their own size. It's like you picking up a car. Can you pick up a car? Answer? No, you can't!
Now, I'm going to go to the bathroom for a second, but we're not done talking about how crazy strong ants are. All right, buddy?
The truth is, when Sanchez gets like this, there's really only way to handle it, and I didn't want to have to do this. Let's do this.
SANCHEZ: Oh!
STEWART: He'll be good for a couple weeks now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Maybe a couple of weeks, maybe sooner. By the way, that tasering took about 20 takes.
Take that.
I kid. I kid Jon Stewart. Good stuff.
I'll be right back.
By the way, listen to this. This is Texas. Texas, they do everything big, right? Even GOP primary races. We're going to drill down on this Republican civil war which includes a candidate who had some pretty provocative things to say about President Bush.
She didn't have provocative things to say. She all but suggested the president of the United States was actually involved in the destroying of the twin towers. And she wants to be governor.
Is she straight on that yet? I mean, has she made her position? And then what about Governor Perry?
We're going to talk about that as well. Stay right there.
We have an old hand in Texas politics. Wayne Slater is back, folks. Look at him. He's looking good.
You lost weight.
This will be good. Stay right there. Wayne Slater is next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Welcome back. I'm Rick Sanchez.
The Texas primary is the day. This is a big race for the Republican nomination of governor -- for governor, I should say. Kay Bailey Hutchison, a senator, is up for the position. Current governor, Rick Perry, is up for it. And so is Tea Party favorite Debra Medina, who I interviewed just a week ago.
Wayne Slater is joining us now. He's a senior political writer for "The Dallas Morning News."
Good to have you back, Wayne. How you feeling?
WAYNE SLATER, SR. POLITICAL WRITER, "DALLAS MORNING NEWS": I'm feeling great. I'm fit. And we've got a race going on here. Guns, state's rights and secession -- I'm all in.
SANCHEZ: And truthing, I suppose? What did I call it, truthing?
SLATER: Yes. I saw your interview with her. Yes, apparently the jury is still out, Rick.
SANCHEZ: Well, that's the thing.
You know, in fact, go to that, Roger. Play a little bit of this interview that we did with her, because she suggested to Glenn Beck that there may be some real serious questions out there about whether or not the United States government, under the presidency of George Bush, may have had something to do with the destroying of those buildings in New York. But then when I asked her, I thought she would use it as an opportunity to get rid of it, and she really didn't.
Here, watch. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: So, for the record, if you want to stomp this out, right here now on national television, do you believe the government, the U.S. government, played any role at all in 9/11?
MEDINA: I have made it very clear that I believe Muslim terrorists flew planes into those buildings. And I do not believe our government colluded with them or worked with them in any way. The question that I have alluded to and I have left open is those recognizing that there were questions raised by the 9/11 Commission.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: The questions that I've raised are those alluding to the question that have been raised, Wayne.
SLATER: Yes. I don't know what she's talking about.
I do know that she does have, among her voter base, some folks who do believe -- are truthers. They do believe that 9/11 was an inside job. She certainly doesn't want to alienate those folks. On the other hand, she would like to expand her appeal.
It's a tight rope. I think she's falling off.
SANCHEZ: Yes. Perry is going to win this thing, right?
SLATER: Certainly, if not tomorrow, it appears he would win in a runoff. That's really what's going to happen tomorrow -- tonight.
Whether or not Rick Perry can win without a runoff, 50 percent plus one vote would get him there. One year ago, Rick Perry, double- digit lead over Kay Bailey Hutchison. I mean, Kay Bailey Hutchison, double-digit lead over Rick Perry. Right now, Rick Perry, double- digit lead over Kay Bailey Hutchison.
This was a collapse by the senior senator from Texas.
SANCHEZ: Why? I mean, you know, when he came out with his comment, remember you and I talked about it when he said it? I mean, he was all about secession from the union, he was talking about states' rights. "States' rights" is, to most people of color, a racist term.
SLATER: Yes.
SANCHEZ: And I thought he had hurt himself. Why wasn't she able to kind of jump on that and use it?
SLATER: Well, the key here is to understand what voters we're talking about. These are Republican primary voters in a Republican primary, and very conservative constituency.
And it's interesting, because on the day that Rick Perry made the comments about secession here in Austin at a Tea Party rally, Kay Bailey Hutchison was in Houston at a fund-raiser. Stepped outside, stepped into a car with an aide, and when she heard about what Rick Perry had said -- this was last April -- she said Rick Perry has just lost this race. In fact, Rick, we now know that that's when Rick Perry won the race among these conservative Republican primary-goers.
SANCHEZ: Well, but shouldn't we be frightened by that?
SLATER: Well, are you frightened by democracy? Glenn Beck will be all over you. Yes, look, this is --
SANCHEZ: It wouldn't be the first time.
SLATER: Well, here's the deal. The deal is that Texans really don't want to secede. You lived here. You know that Texans don't want to secede.
SANCHEZ: Right.
SLATER: What they hear in the word "secession" is a kind of code that says, heck with the government, stick it to the government. And that's -- it's really about Texas exceptionalism.
SANCHEZ: And we're hearing that, by the way, from the coast of Maine, to the tip of San Diego, from Key West to Seattle. So that's not particularly a Texas thing. I guess it's all a matter of degrees, as they say in Texas. Everything is a little bigger.
SLATER: Absolutely.
SANCHEZ: You look good, my friend. It's great to see you.
SLATER: Great to see you, Rick.
SANCHEZ: We'll do it again.
SLATER: OK.
SANCHEZ: This is what happens when a bank scandal boils over. This is a bailout gone wrong. It ain't pretty. Details are ahead.
Stay right here. I'm going to take you through the stories and the videos and the pictures.
We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: We collect tweets and call that a list. In fact, that's why we call the show RICK'S LIST. Not only yours, but people relevant to stories like some of the folks in Congress.
Look at this. We showed you a Republican tweet a little while ago. This one just came in from Frank Pallone, A Dem.
"Exhibit A in GOP obstruction," he says. Senator Bunning is blocking a jobs bill that will put people to work now -- job seekers cannot afford to wait."
Again, that's the Democratic perspective. We bring you both sides.
A police officer serves, protects, and if you're lucky, he will shove you out of the way of a speeding car. This is amazing.
In "Fotos," we want you to watch the lightning fast reactions of this police officer. He literally pushes a motorist to safety before he goes flying over a guardrail and a dividing wall himself.
How terrifying for him. An out-of-control car on a snowy highway smashes into Lieutenant John Lambere (ph). The two drivers safe and unhurt.
Lieutenant Lambere (ph), he put a civilian's safety above his own. And as a result, he ended up with a severely broken pelvis. But he's alive.
Job well done, Officer.
All right. Can't show you this scene real close. This is a family program, folks.
Five thousand two hundred bare butts on the steps of a famous Sydney Opera House. That's right, they're naked.
It's the latest in a series of mass nude art projects by photographer Spencer Tunick. It is nowhere near his biggest gathering of naked models. That was 18,000 people in Mexico City in 2007.
So, are you impressed by this? I say they should do this in Chicago in February. Yes, then I would be impressed. That would be commitment.
Moving on now, remember this? I showed you this last week, a mother coaching her 5-year-old son to steal purses at a pizza place in Indianapolis.
It was caught on surveillance cameras. Police have now ID'd the parents and charged them with theft. According to court documents, the little girl didn't want to steal, but her mother told her to "do it for mama."
Bad mama. You just made "Fotos."
All right. I want to show you something.
This is our reporter. This is Dana Bash, I believe. See her right there just on the right?
She's chasing Jim Bunning. So is everybody else in Washington these days.
I'm going to ask Wolf Blitzer what's up with Mr. Bunning -- Senator Bunning, I should say. It is the burning question in D.C., and Wolf is the best man to ask, so stay right there.
Rick and Wolf when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: The president puts out a letter to Congress, telling them in Congress that he wants them to take into account what the Republican ideas are. He actually singled them out. I think I have it over here somewhere. Look at this.
This is a letter -- "Honorable Nancy Pelosi, Speaker of the House, and Honorable Harry Reid," et cetera, et cetera. Then he goes on to say, look, "I like what these guys had to say. I liked what Senator Grassley said. I liked what Senator Barrasso said and Senator Coburn," et cetera.
We're going to talk about that in just a little bit with Wolf Blitzer. He's joining me already.
But first, I want to ask him about Senator Jim Bunning, because, boy, this thing is turning into a bit of a brouhaha in Washington today.
And it's funny, because the Republicans are getting after him as much as the Dems are for giving the Dems kind of a good hand here, right?
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: He's getting plenty of criticism all around, but he's also getting some support. And from Senator Bunning's perspective, he really doesn't have a whole lot to lose.
He's not going to seek re-election, he's retiring right now. He's not a young guy.
For him, this is a matter of principle. He says if you want to spend an additional $10 billion, fine, good idea. But don't increase the national debt, find a way of cutting some waste elsewhere, and come up with the money that way.
But for him it's just a matter of principle. And he says eventually these folks will getting their money, those who are unemployed, those who need the COBRA insurance, the highway funds, the workers and all of that, but he just feels very strongly you shouldn't raise the national debt to do so.
SANCHEZ: Hey, Wolf, you've been following these guys for a long time, and sometimes guys like me, out here on the outside, I look at these guys and I'm just wondering if there's too many -- the process looks like it stinks. It's so easy to manipulate, and there's 18,000 strategies and tactics, and there's reconciliation, and there's this and there's that. And then you can cloture this and do that, and one guy can stand up and stop everything.
Talk about that a little bit.
BLITZER: The founding fathers wanted the Senate -- unlike the House of Representatives, they wanted the Senate to be much more deliberative, to slow down the process, to make sure that people aren't carried away. And as a result, there are all sorts of procedures in the Senate that don't exist in the House of Representatives. But that was deliberate, because they wanted to make sure that people just don't get too carried away, all of a sudden they think hard, and that even if there's an important minority, they have some rights and they have some abilities.
Look, what the Republicans are doing now is not all that different what the Democrats used to do when they were in the minority, but that's the way the system has been set up. And I've been in Washington for 30-plus years and I've been watching it all the time. So I'm not all that surprised by the drama that's unfolding on the Senate floor right now.
SANCHEZ: Yes, I know. I figured you wouldn't. You're used to watching that sausage being made. And you know it sometimes smells a little bit when they put the meat in there.
BLITZER: It's like making sausage.
SANCHEZ: Yes, exactly.
Hey, thanks, Wolf. We'll look forward to you.
"THE SITUATION ROOM" coming up in just four minutes.
BLITZER: Thanks, Rick.
SANCHEZ: All right.
We're going to be right back, and I've got something special for you. Stay right there.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Welcome back. I'm Rick Sanchez.
You know, as angry as many Americans are about the Wall Street bank bailouts, look what they did in Indonesia. And that's the situation outside, with just regular folks. Look what legislators did inside. Watch.
Can you imagine? I wonder where that ended.
Here's Wolf Blitzer now in "THE SITUATION ROOM."
We'll see you tomorrow, folks.
