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Rick's List
Interview With Wyoming Senator John Barrasso; Charlie Rangel Steps Aside; President Calls for Vote on Health Care; Tsunami Warnings Issued Across Chile.
Aired March 03, 2010 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
RICK SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR: We are coming to you from New York, and there is already breaking news.
Topping our list of breaking news, apparently, there has been some kind of rogue wave off of the coast of Spain. From what we understand, this was a 26-foot wave that has resulted in the death of two passengers on board a ship.
I want to get to top of this by getting Chad Myers involved in this.
Chad, the information is sketchy at this point. Some of it is still just starting to come in. Can you give us a sense of how this could have happened, what is going on?
CHAD MYERS, AMS METEOROLOGIST: My thought is because rogue waves typically happen in the big Atlantic Ocean or in the Pacific ocean, because there is just more room for these waves to run and be generated, that a Mediterranean wave, probably the combination of two waves coming together, and unfortunately this cruise ship was right in the way, one wave, a few, 10, 15 feet, another one coming in from a different direction.
There have been huge storms in Europe the past couple of days. Very large waves could be generated, probably not by a tsunami. I don't see any evidence of an earthquake in the Mediterranean that could generate a tsunami, but let me take you to one of our sources.
This is Google Earth. And I'm going to show you something else. Could be a little bit more sinister here.
SANCHEZ: OK.
MYERS: It could be that part of the shelf of the Mediterranean, it may have actually fall off or a little bit of a landslide could have occurred here very close to Marseille. See my little pointer right up there?
The ship was not that far off of this little coastal canyon area. If part of that dirt, part of that ocean floor may have slid down in a way that it would have moved dirt and sediment and water with it, it wouldn't have really shown up as a earthquake, because the earth really didn't shake. All it did was kind of fall down as a landslide, and a landslide hitting water even if it is underground could cause a wave to be that big, 26 feet. It hit on the fifth floor, the fifth deck of this ship. And it broke the window. These people, these two fatalities were at this window, and when they glass broke, that is how those people died.
SANCHEZ: Let me share the information that's coming in now. This is some of the information that we're getting in off the wires. For those of you joining us now, the story that we're going with at the very top of the list of breaking news stories that we are following is that this ship has been affected by a 26-foot wave.
This also seems mysterious, Greek Louis Cruise ship lines. It was off the French port of Marseille when it was hit by these -- it is described as an abnormal wave more than 26 feet. As a result, five windows in public areas were smashed. Two passengers, a German and an Italian, have been killed -- 14 others have been treated.
The vessel is called the Louis Majesty. It was sailing under a Maltese flag, traveling from Barcelona, Spain, to Genoa, Italy.
One more thing, obviously, I have to ask you, given the fact that we have had this earthquake in Haiti and a subsequent earthquake off the coast of Chile, is there any possibility that this may have been as a result of an earthquake there?
MYERS: There was a 4.4. south of Crete. And Crete is far away. And I will even take you to it, because I can show it to you right on this same generating map that we used before. So the wave hitting way over here by France, and then all the way down to this tiny little dot, hundreds maybe even 1,000 miles away of only a 4-scale, 4- magnitude earthquake, there's just no way that it could generate a wave there, and then actually affect a ship way over here without affecting all the other ships in between.
SANCHEZ: Yes.
MYERS: I think this had something to do with the way that this shelf is. You see the dark blue? That is the deep water of the Med.
SANCHEZ: Right.
MYERS: And then you get this shallow water here. And there may have been some type of ramping up, like a 10-foot wave in the middle just swelling out there in the Mediterranean, when it was ramped up. Just like a tsunami wave can be ramped up in a bay, it may have affected this ship in that way.
There's no way to tell right now. All I can tell you is that there is not an earthquake big enough to cause that wave that has been put on the USGS Web site at all today.
SANCHEZ: Well, Chad, I know we are only getting preliminary information on this story, so do this for us. If you get any new information, if you get anything that would give us a better idea of what may have caused this situation, let us know. We will get you right back on the air.
(CROSSTALK)
MYERS: There have been a million people -- a million people are without power in Europe because of the storm that hit the western side of France, killing almost 60 people on the western side of France. That happened only three days ago. The winds from that storm probably generated this wave.
SANCHEZ: All right. All right. Chad Myers, nobody knows better than Chad to tell us what is going on in that part of the world.
Chad, thanks so much. Let us know if anything is more definitive.
In the meantime, here's what else we have got on tap.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ (voice-over): Here is what is on THE LIST.
The president's health care plan will include Republican proposals.
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The American people want to know if it is still possible for Washington to look out for their interests and their future.
SANCHEZ: Republican Senator Barrasso is on the president's letter. He is on THE LIST. Will he support the president? He joins me live.
REP. CHARLES RANGEL (D-NY), HOUSE WAYS AND MEANS COMMITTEE CHAIRMAN: I have this morning sent a letter to Speaker Pelosi asking her to grant me a leave of absence.
SANCHEZ: Democratic Congressman Charlie Rangel succumbs to the pressure, some of it from his own party. He is on our embattled list. What sealed it?
At the top of THE LIST for toughest dudes, remember "The Hurt Locker"? There are people who actually detonate bombs. You will see their unbelievable story.
Can you believe an air traffic controller thought it would be cute to let his son to direct real airliners? FAA thinks, not cute. They say unacceptable.
At the cash machine, you know you're on TV, right?
The lists you need to know about. Who is "Today's Most Intriguing"? Who is making news on Twitter? It is why I keep a list, pioneering tomorrow's cutting-edge news right now.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ: All right. Hello again, everybody. I'm Rick Sanchez.
At the very top THE LIST today is the president's health care proposal. He spelled it out. He went before the American people, said what he thought he had to say. He says enough with the debate. It is time to vote on the health care bill. And he has given Congress two weeks essentially get this done. This is no doubt our breakthrough segment.
All right. The president did a couple of things, folks, and I think we should probably talk about these. He spelled it out in very uncertain terms, and he went through a very short list of his own, one, two, and three.
Number one on the list, the president says, look, no more denial by preexisting condition of Americans. He also says no more cutting people off in the middle of their policies, and no more premium hikes in the middle -- from -- that seem to come from nowhere.
The president also said small businesses are also going to be able to have the same type of insurance policies that Congress has, and, if they can't, the president will make sure that they get some kind of tax credit. That is number two.
Number three, and this is where the president was definitive and he's probably going to get some pushback from the other side -- the president said essentially that it's going to be a way of cutting the deficit and cutting health care costs for millions of Americans. That is the word he used. In fact, he said, to be more specific, that this policy, this proposal that he is outlining today is going to cut the deficit by $1 trillion over the next 20 years.
Those are his big three pushes. And then he essentially said, that is it. That is my proposal. Let's pick it up where the president starts talking about another part of this. Take it, Rog.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I don't see how another year of negotiations would help.
Moreover, the insurance companies aren't starting over. They're continuing to raise premiums and deny coverage as we speak.
It is a complicated issue. If it was easy, it would have been solved long ago.
As all of you know from experience, health care can literally be an issue of life or death.
At stake right now is not just our ability to solve this problem, but our ability to solve any problem.
The American people want to know if it's still possible for Washington to look out for their interests and their future. They are waiting for us to act.
I do not know how this plays politically, but I know it's right.
(APPLAUSE)
OBAMA: And so I ask Congress to finish its work, and I look forward to signing this reform into law.
Thank you very much everybody.
Let's get it done.
(APPLAUSE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: All right. Now I want to talk a little bit about what the president's plan did not include. It did not include a public option. It is including several Republican proposals from the health care meeting that he had just a couple of weeks ago.
But, in the end, it does look like this will go to a vote without Republican support. That is what most of the insiders in Washington are thinking. That could change, folks.
That controversial Senate procedure only requiring a simple majority, reconciliation that we have been talking about, not sure what is going to go on with that.
A key player in this debate is Republican Senator John Barrasso of Wyoming. He is with us now from Capitol Hill. By the way, I should tell you, he is an orthopedic surgeon. He's a frequent guest on this show. And he's recently sat across the table from the president of the United States.
In fact, Senator, thanks so much for being with us.
SEN. JOHN BARRASSO (R), WYOMING: Hey, thank you, Rick. Great to be with you.
SANCHEZ: The president included your proposal, actually wrote about it in a letter to Congress yesterday. He liked what you had to say. And he wants to make sure that this is a part of your proposal.
I imagine that you are happy about that, right?
BARRASSO: Well, I am glad that he is including one good idea, but it is still on top of a bill that is 2,700 pages which are bad for the American people.
Rick, I wish that the president would tune in to the CNN poll -- 50 percent of Americans say stop now and start over -- 25 percent of the Americans said just stop. Only one in four Americans in your CNN poll said, yes, we should go ahead and pass this bill.
The president ought to be listening to the American people. The American people know. And I hope, in your next poll, you ask two questions for individuals. Do you think, if the bill passes, that your own personal cost of care will go up? You are going to see a big number there.
And then you are going to ask, do you believe that the quality of your care will go down? Many, many Americans, Rick, believe that the quality of their own personal care will suffer if the president's bill is passed into law.
SANCHEZ: So, you think the president of the United States should make his policy based on polls? Is that what you are saying?
BARRASSO: He should make it based on good policy, because good policy is good politics.
But his bill is bad policy. It is going to raise taxes by about $500 billion, and then cut Medicare for our seniors who depend upon Medicare by another $500 billion, and not just --
(CROSSTALK)
BARRASSO: -- Medicare, but to start a whole new program, Rick.
SANCHEZ: So, you would do what then? No reform? Leave things as it is right now?
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: Let these guys -- hold on, hold on, hold on. Let these guys keep jacking up the rates like they have been doing for the last two weeks? I don't think Americans want that.
BARRASSO: No. No, they don't want that.
Americans want to be able to shop across state lines for what is best for them and their families. And then Americans who buy their own health insurance want the same tax breaks as the big companies get. American small businesses --
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: And what do you do -- but what do you do with the 33 million people who have no insurance, that, Doctor, you and I have to pay for every time they go to the emergency room in taxes that they put on us and on excise -- surcharges that the hospitals put us on?
BARRASSO: That's -- and it is cost shifting. That is why, if people could buy insurance across state lines, Rick, 12 million more people would have insurance today.
It is why we need to deal with these --
(CROSSTALK)
BARRASSO: -- lawsuits that are out there that make a big difference in terms of all the unnecessary tests that are done, the defensive medicine. That is a part of it.
But for these people that don't have insurance who are still getting care, there are people we absolutely need to help. And there are ways to help those people. But you don't destroy a system that works well for 85 percent of the people who have it. Their big concern is the cost.
And we need to focus on the costs. That is what is killing us. And as Warren Buffett said on Monday, it's time to stop and start over and focus specifically on the cost of care, and then remove -- and the president has not done it -- he said, remove all this foolishness from the bill, the Louisiana Purchase, these 800,000 people with a special sweetheart deal in Florida, the seniors there --
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: With all due respect --
BARRASSO: -- just so their senators in Florida will vote for this bill.
So, there are number of things we need to do. But we need to focus on patients. And I think the president, really, when he gives his speeches, gives a great speech, but that doesn't match up with what is written on the pages of this 2,700-page bill.
SANCHEZ: Senator, with all due respect, the stuff about the Louisiana Purchase and the thing that's going on in Nebraska and the thing that's going on in Florida, that is a bit of a red herring. I don't think you will find most politicians that, A., haven't been involved in some kind of giveaways to get somebody to vote for something.
(CROSSTALK)
BARRASSO: I'm not hearing anything. I think that something came apart. And I wish I could hear the questions that you are asking, but I'm going to continue to talk about the things that I know that as a physician that impact the cost of care.
(CROSSTALK)
BARRASSO: And the more we can get patients involved in their own health care decisions, the better it is going to be for them, the better they are going to be --
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: Can you hear me now?
(CROSSTALK)
BARRASSO: -- consumers of health care, and the less that government is really dictating their care, the better it's going to be.
And I have concerns that, right now, this is really a government- run program, instead of a patient-centered program.
SANCHEZ: Well, he specifically said it wasn't.
But, by the way, can you hear me yet? Can you hear me now? Senator Barrasso, are you there?
All right, let's see if we can fix -- let's take a break, because the question that I want to ask -- and I think he respectfully said that one of the things that differs from the Republican plan is he thinks that part of the problem can be solved by just having folks shop across state lines. He is right to an extent.
According to the research that we have looked at, that would pick up insurance for another three million people. So, the Republican plan would insure another three million. The president's plan would insure another 30 million.
Is that something to be considered? Or are those 27 million people something that are just going to be too costly for the United States right now, given where we are with our debt and our deficit? Look, it is a reasonable argument and one that I hope to have with the senator as soon as we come back.
Here is what else we are going to be talking about in just a little bit, by the way.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): I'm afraid for my children. There was a moment when this was no-man's land. This place was like the Wild, Wild West.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Parts of Chile looking like the Wild, Wild West indeed. And another powerful earthquake has just rocked Chile. Evacuations were ordered for the area. You are not going to believe the magnitude on this thing. I mean, they usually call these things aftershocks, but this is a big nut for an aftershock.
And crews are still trying to reach many of the people that are trapped under Saturday's earthquake. I'm going to translate this for you.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
QUESTION: Why the change from last night, sir?
RANGEL: I would also like to say that, from the very, very beginning, I had offered this to Speaker Pelosi.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: All right. This is a good question, why the big change and what does this mean about his offer to Speaker Pelosi? Charlie Rangel steps aside for now. Now, what was the straw that broke the camel's back? We are going to answer that question. And, obviously, the very latest on what is going on with this mysterious rogue wave off the coast of Spain that apparently has killed several people, injured about 14 people. We will keep working on that.
And when I come back, hopefully, we will have our audio problem fixed with Senator Barrasso and we will be able to continue the nitty- gritty of this proposal that president of the United States laid out today. Is it good, bad for America? And are the Republicans going to vote for it any of them? So, stay right there.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: All right. Once again, here is what is going on.
I wanted to ask Senator Barrasso, from all the research that has been done, it looks like the Republican proposal will only insure an added three million Americans, whereas the president's proposal will insure more like 30 million Americans.
Given that plan, a lot of folks would say, look, we can only do what we can do right now, given the fact that it's just going to be too expensive for this country, the president saying you can't do this piecemeal.
We have lost Senator Barrasso. Not sure if he walked away. I don't think the questions were too stringent. Either way, after we weren't able to hear him, we tried to hook back up with him. Maybe he just feared that the interview was over.
Either way, he is not happy with the president's proposal. That was pretty obvious from our conversation.
I will tell you who else is not happy with the president's proposal, on the left, Democratic Congressman Anthony Weiner. He has just gotten a hold of us. He is going to be coming on this show in just a little bit. He's going to give his a reaction to the president's proposal. He doesn't feel like it either. He wanted there to be a public option. It doesn't look like there is a public option in this thing, as I spelled out for you a little while ago.
Meanwhile, there's another breaking story that we're following for you right now. We told -- remember, moments ago, I told you that there had been a earthquake off the coast of Chile again? It was -- in fact, let me bring Chad into the conversation as well.
All right. Look at this video. This is our correspondent there in -- off the coast of Chile. And, suddenly, the tsunami warning sounds and everybody starting running, including him. Watch Karl Penhaul. I'm going to shut up and let you hear it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KARL PENHAUL, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Still rolling.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Still rolling. PENHAUL: OK. There has been a tsunami alert now, and that was after an aftershock earlier on. And the military who have been handing out aid have told us all to run.
We have been separated from our producer. He was in the vehicle, but we hope that he is hearing the same warnings, too.
Shoot over here. As you can see, the military are beginning to gather together. We have to help all the people up here.
PENHAUL: You can hear the whistles going on.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Boy, that is really something, isn't it? As we understand it -- and we haven't gotten a chance to talk to Karl Penhaul yet. We got that feed a little while ago. He heard the sirens going. There was a tsunami reported or a tsunami warning and everyone just kind of, as you saw there, started heading for the hills.
Let me do this. I'm going to hook up with Chad Myers in just a little bit. What is the reason for this? We heard that there was an earthquake.
Was that earth -- oh, Chad, you are there now. Let me bring you into this.
Can you put this in perspective for us?
MYERS: It is hard to put it in perspective, what those people are going through now, because that looked like chaos, and, Rick, that earthquake was a 5.9. That is 25,000 times less powerful than the original earthquake.
But, every time the earth rattles now, every time the earth shakes, these people are running away from the shore. Now, it is what you are supposed to do. But now their nerves are so frazzled by an 8.8, they are literally running away from an earthquake that could generate a three-inch tsunami.
The tsunami that came through this area was six to 12 feet, by people's estimate. It went right through the city, stopped and then washed the rest of the city back out.
Let me take you to my graphic here on my map on my wall, and I am going to show you what happened to this town. Here is the big earthquake. And I can kind of zoom back out. You kind of get the idea. All these yellow dots, those are all aftershocks, all aftershocks.
So, what happened here, this very large 8.8 earthquake, Rick, came down and pushed its wave into this bay. See that bay right there?
SANCHEZ: Yes. MYERS: That is where Karl Penhaul is right now, but it took a little while to get there. It took 15 minutes or so for that wave to get here.
The aftershock that they were running away from today was right there, literally less than 30 seconds' worth of notice to get out of the way had that been a big earthquake. It wasn't, so a big tsunami was not generated.
But if you have an 8.8 earthquake, there could be easily a 7.8 aftershock without even thinking about it. That is completely within the range. And, so, people literally do need to run when the earth shakes.
SANCHEZ: So, this aftershock again that could have caused this tsunami that we have no reports that in fact has that these folks were all concerned about, that was what, 5-point-what? Give me with that number again.
MYERS: Five -- 5.9.
SANCHEZ: Five-point -- 5.9.
MYERS: So, if you go from -- 5.9. So from 8.8, where it was, to 7.8 to 6.8 -- from 6.8 to 8.8, that's 1,000 times less power. We were less than that. We were almost down to 5.8. We were down to 5.9, so way less power than the original earthquake.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: Yes.
MYERS: But these people's mind-sets now are get out of the way. Look what happened to the rest of the people we loved.
SANCHEZ: Which is to be understood at the very least, exactly, yes.
MYERS: Yes.
SANCHEZ: Thanks, Chad. We will keep getting back to you. Obviously, there's a lot of news going on out there. And as it breaks, we're going to bring it to you.
And for those of you who may have missed some of our reporting on this, we will continue to check in on Karl Penhaul, continue to check in on the situation there.
Also, that rogue wave that has killed two people on a cruise ship off the coast of Spain.
The president has put out his proposal. And we're talking to the left and we're talking to the right. And we're getting reactions from both. We're also going to go through it for you again.
And, at the very end of this show, I'm going to let you listen to the president's words, his words, how he describes this proposal, and let you judge it for yourself.
This is THE LIST. We are going through what is important. I'm Rick Sanchez. I'm Rick Sanchez. We are in New York today. I will be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Senator Barrasso is back with us once again. And so I am. I'm Rick Sanchez. This is RICK'S LIST. We come to you every day between 3:00 and 5:00.
Senator, I'm sorry. We had an audio problem. And then I asked for you, and you weren't there. I apologize for the misunderstanding, sir.
BARRASSO: Happy to be back, Rick. Thank you. Thanks for having me.
SANCHEZ: All right. Let's talk about OMB. Here's what they say.
They say that the Republican plan is going to only insure another three million people. The Democratic plan is going to insure another 30 million people. The president says you can't do this step-by-step. It's got to be comprehensive, or you lose out in the end.
As a doctor, are you concerned about those 27 million people that OMB says will go without insurance and we will have to pick up the tab for them?
BARRASSO: I'm very concerned about that, Rick.
And that is why I continue to say that having coverage does not equal to care -- having care. Everyone in Canada is covered, but, yet, last year, 33,000 Canadians came to the United States for health care because they could not get it in Canada, even though they had coverage.
Plus, the president's plan puts 15 million more people on to Medicaid, a program that is terribly broken right now. And the Mayo Clinic said, we don't want to see any Medicaid patients, because it does not reimburse enough to even let us afford to keep their doors open.
So, whether it is Johns Hopkins University or the Mayo Clinic, hospitals all around the country say this is not a solution that actually is actually credible, putting all of those people on Medicaid. It doesn't -- it gives them coverage, but it does not necessarily give them care.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: So, you are for -- go ahead, sir. Finish.
BARRASSO: I am for letting people buy insurance across state lines. Twelve million more people would be able to buy health insurance right now, affordable health insurance, would have health insurance, if they could just shop around.
The example the president uses about that company in California that was going to jack up the rates, why not let all those people look around the other 49 states to find something that works for them, that they could buy that will work good for them?
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: Two points. OMB's numbers are very different from yours. They are saying only three million more people are going to be able to buy insurance under your plan. Second point, the president says he is willing to go along with the idea that people should buy a lot -- should be allowed to buy across state lines.
So, those are two important distinctions to make. One final question to you, sir, before you go.
BARRASSO: They are. Let's see if that is in not in his bill.
And the OMB has to do with one bill that a couple of House members introduced. It doesn't really deal with the across state lines. You are still looking at taxes going up, Medicare cuts for 10 years. And they're only giving services for six years in this president's proposal.
SANCHEZ: The president says, over two decades, it will bring down the deficit by $1 trillion.
But let's leave that as it is, because I don't want to get into an argument over numbers. One side says this. The other side says that.
What I do want to ask you is this. Is there any possibility you will vote for this bill? And, as a caveat to that question, let me ask you, would you encourage or do you expect that anyone with an R. in front of their name will vote for this bill?
BARRASSO: Not this massive bill.
I think that we ought to go for things we agree on. And there were things that came out of the summit that we agreed on. I think we could get a lot of things passed today.
We should not go in this big way. We ought to do what the CNN polls did, said, start over step-by-step toward the improvements that we need, because we do need health care reform, Rick, but I think that this is going to make costs go up and it's going to make the quality of care drop for most Americans.
SANCHEZ: Senator Doctor, it is good to have you once again. Thank you so much. Sorry about the misunderstanding and the problem with the microphones, and then we have all these breaking stories going on at the same time. But I wanted to give you a chance to answer the questions.
BARRASSO: Always great to be with you. Thank you, Rick.
SANCHEZ: Here is what else is coming your way.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Clear for takeoff.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Cleared for take-off Jet Blue, 171.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Are you kidding me? That is a kid saying that the airliner was cleared for takeoff. At the very top of "The List" of bonehead moves, a child is allowed the clear an airliner for takeoff. And dad, he is in big trouble.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Welcome back. I'm Rick Sanchez bringing you the show from New York today.
We are going right back to the top of THE LIST, health care. President Obama has given the health care remarks just a while ago. He admitted that he doesn't know how this is going to play out politically, but he is certain of what he wants to do. He has laid out his plan.
Let's do this -- CNN's senior political analyst Gloria Borger is here to help us make sense of this. You know, that conversation that I just had -- did you see that conversation with the senator? I wonder if the White House was watching that, because, and I know that you have been on the phone with the White House. That is probably what they expected, right?
GLORIA BORGER, SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes, I think it is what they expected. Look, Rick, the big issue here is whether you can require people to buy health insurance. You know, I think what a lot of Republicans look at is another one of the CNN polls which shows that over half of the people in this country don't believe they should be required to buy health insurance.
What the White House is saying is if we can't require you to buy health insurance, like you buy car insurance for example, then there is no way that we can guarantee that insurance companies are going to have a large enough insurance pool to guarantee you that your preexisting conditions are going to be covered.
So there is a fundamental, philosophical disagreement between the Republicans and the White House about whether you should require people in this country to buy insurance. And that's where Barrasso and the president will never meet, never.
SANCHEZ: But I was doing some research over the weekend on this, because I wanted to know who pays for -- I have always thought that a real good conservative principle is that everyone pays their own way. I mean, if you are a conservative, you believe that I shouldn't be paying for Gloria Borger nor should you pay for me.
But if we have some 30 million people out there who don't have insurance, every time they get sick and go to the emergency room, they don't pay. You and I pay because the hospital then asks the state for an excise tax or surcharge to be able to pay to charge us for what those people charge. So, I mean --
BORGER: Well, and I think Republicans would agree with you on that, Rick. I think they absolutely would. The question is when you form these large insurance pools, what is going to happen is that the government is going to subsidize you, if you are poor enough and you really can't afford to buy into the pool.
And so the government will help you buy your insurance, and I think that is part of the area of disagreement.
But on a political level here I will tell you that I did talk to the White House, as you mentioned, and advisers say this, look, we needed to end this, we need an accomplishment, we have had all of the debate we are going to have on health care, round and flat, every which way for 16 years in this country.
And we decided at a certain point, we needed to put this to a vote and not bury it for another year or two or three. It is a real political gamble for them because Republicans are going to be on one side of history and the Democrats are going to be on the other side of history.
SANCHEZ: But here's the problem. The president said you have a couple of weeks to figure this out. Go do it now.
Take 30 or 40 seconds, if you would, and take us through what is the procedure, and what do we expect to see happen now, where does it go and who goes where and do it as cursory as you can. You don't need to get into the weeds.
BORGER: Well, it is one of the wake me when it is over kind of things. And honestly, you're going to have the House and the Senate have already approved their health care bills.
Now, the House -- the problem here is so interesting, Rick. The House Democrats don't trust the Senate Democrats. They didn't like the bill that the Senate Democrats approved, so they say, OK, we will approve your version of the bill if you can guarantee us these numbers of fixes, because we don't like your bill. And so the Republicans are saying --
SANCHEZ: So, there is a lot of --
BORGER: Go ahead.
SANCHEZ: There is a lot of reconciling that needs to take place is what I hear you saying. BORGER: Yes, between the Democrats. You know the Republicans in a way, the Democrats hope they can get their majorities, and by the way, that's very unclear in the house because liberals are very upset with this.
And so, you know, it's not clear that Nancy Pelosi has the votes that she needs. But, you know, it is Democrats in the Senate and Democrats in the House don't trust each other.
Democrats in the House say, you know what, we have taken all of the tough votes on health care and you guys in the Senate have had an easy ride of it, and we're afraid you will saw our limb off again. This is something they have to work up.
SANCHEZ: Well, good explanation, Gloria. I think we get it and we'll be watching it, and there will be couple of shoot them ups over the next few weeks. Thanks so much, Gloria Borger, our own CNN contributor and analyst bringing us up to date on what going on.
Stay right there, we have the very latest of what is happening off of the coast of Chile and off of the coast of Spain, one a rogue wave the other one an earthquake, a possible or feared tsunami. More pictures are coming out of there, and as they do, we will share them with you.
I'm Rick Sanchez. This is THE LIST and we will keep counting it down for you.
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SANCHEZ: All right, welcome back.
This is video that has come into us from a 15-year-old from Chile -- 15 years old, he has a camera. He has another powerful earthquake that had come by, and he has been shooting video of the folks there and how they are reacting to it.
We told you a while ago that there is a possible tsunami or a fear of one because of the 5.9 aftershock just off of the coast of Chile. Crews have been pulling people out of the rubble, and then they have to be pulled out of the rubble at the same time.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When the truth comes out, I am confident that I'll be vindicated.
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SANCHEZ: Now the New York police superintendent has abruptly retired. Folks, this situation I am telling you about that is going on in the state of New York is spreading. It is not only the governor that is affected now, but it's some of to folks in the state police department, some of the high-ranking folks in the state police department as a result of abuse of power allegations in a case of domestic abuse. We are drilling down on this. Stay right there, and we will have more. I will be right back.
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SANCHEZ: By the way, I was telling you what was going on off of the coast of Spain. I just received this information from Chad Myers who has been following this since the earlier conversation. He is pointing out to me that buoy data is showing off the coast of France that they have seen waves reaching 20.
So that 26-foot rogue wave that everyone is talking about is in keeping with what is going on. And there are and winds there also of 45 miles an hour, so it starts to become a clearer picture as to what would have caused this wave to hit this cruise ship killing two people, according to reports, and injuring as many as 14 others.
Meanwhile, they are fearing a tsunami-type wave off of the coast of Chile as a result of another powerful earthquake there today, 5.9 we understand is the one that got people excited. We showed you a video a little while ago, Karl Penhaul there on the seashore reacting with some of the folks in the town.
Brooke Baldwin is drilling down on this story and she is joining us to show us what is up to date? What have you got, Brooke?
BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Rick, we saw just a snippet and I want to show just a longer piece. You mentioned Karl Penhaul, who is in this coastal town north of Concepcion which really bore the brunt of this earthquake from Saturday.
You mentioned the aftershock was of 5.9 magnitude, but then just total panic here, because authorities issued the tsunami warning to residents and they told them to get out of town and get to higher ground, you have one hour to do that.
We want to show you video of Karl Penhaul, normally cool as a cucumber filming in areas all over the world, and then he kind of loses his cool because he here's the tsunami warning and then just takes off.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PENHAUL: In addition to the aid the government has sent in, concerned citizens are banding together as well and sending in supplies --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Tsunami, tsunami!
PENHAUL: Keep rolling on it. Still roll. Still rolling. Still rolling.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: So you can hear him, you know, telling the cameraman, "keep rolling." They are racing, and the cameraman is racing, and they are wondering where the producer is. It turns out the tsunami warning, Rick, was a false alarm.
So minutes later, we have been keeping an eye on CNN Chile, and it was rescinded and the information that spread just about an hour, hour and a half ago, spread inaccurately between the firefighters and the national police and the military.
And at one more sound bite, and Rick, you can help me to understand this because he is speaking in Spanish, and a commander is trying to quell the crowds once they were panicking. Let's roll that, and Rick, if you can help me to translate.
SANCHEZ: Sure. I would be happy to.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (via translator): If you can hear me, we all react differently. The man is stressed out, and he is tired. Please, let's calm ourselves. Please remain calm, and have the folks around you remain calm as well.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
He is calling for calm on in this situation.
BALDWIN: Right, and so I think really what you said is perhaps someone misinterpreted, and nerves are very raw, just a couple of days after the 8.8 magnitude earthquake, so that is really the latest from Chile. It was a false alarm.
SANCHEZ: You know, the thing about that false alarm though, you only get to be wrong once.
BALDWIN: Right.
SANCHEZ: When judging whether something is or isn't a tsunami, so I think the right thing to do in that situation is to, if you see folks running for hills, run for the hills.
BALDWIN: Heed warning, get out of there.
SANCHEZ: Exactly. Follow the elephants. Thanks so much, appreciate it.
Also, this coming up --
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BARACK OBAMA, (D) PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: No matter which approach you favor, I believe the United States Congress owes the American people a final vote on health care reform.
(APPLAUSE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: That is the president, a major step today in his trying to get the health care proposal passed, apparently come hell or high water now.
Has Mr. Obama had enough? Roland Martin, Ed Rollins will both be joining me here next to take you through this. There is Roland. He has been e-mailing me and twittering as well. And I will check and see what he has to say during the break and then I'll ask him about it when we come back.
I'm Rick Sanchez, this is THE LIST. Stay there.
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SANCHEZ: All right, as we follow the other Mother Nature breaking news, we also have at the very top of our political news list the president of the United States laying out his platform for health care reform.
Three things, folks, he says, look, no more denying people for preexisting conditions, that's got to stop. No more cutting people off out of nowhere. No more premium hikes that seem to come out of nowhere.
He also talks small businesses need to have the same thing that folks in Congress can have, an insurance plan that's adequate, and if they can't get it, we'll give them tax credits so that they can. And then finally he said this will cut the deficit and reduce costs for millions of American. On the deficit thing, he says it will be $1 trillion over 20 years.
Ed Rollins is joining us now, so is Roland Martin. Gentlemen, first Ed, you're here, let me start with you. You heard the president's plan. Does it sound like something that's doable and good for the American people?
ED ROLLINS, CNN POLITICAL CONTRIBUTOR: Parts will be good, but overall it will cost an enormous sum of money. I think the reality is every time you have a new entitlement program, it never quite measures up.
SANCHEZ: He says in the long haul, he admits it will be costly in the beginning. But he says in the long haul, and I'll give you that number once again, $1 trillion saved over 20 years.
ROLLINS: I don't know how you can spend a $1 trillion each year insuring 31 million people who don't have insurance today and subsidizing most of those people will get you down the road to a point where it's beneficial.
SANCHEZ: Roland, Ed has a good point? Or is there a way to look at cost savings in a plan like?
ROLAND MARTIN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Again what he said is it would cost $100 billion a year, not $1 trillion a year.
SANCHEZ: No, no, no, Roland, nobody ever said one trillion. I said $1 trillion over two decades.
MARTIN: I know. I'm talking about what Ed said.
I understand that. Look, this is what the president said, here's the reality. Congressional Budget Office, they're laying out in terms of the impact will be, but the president continues to argue that the cost of health care is rising faster than anything else, so therefore we must tackle that.
And the bottom line is, you're right, on any of this is programs, no one can say for certainty right now. No one can. The same thing was true when it came to Medicare or Medicaid or the prescription drug bill that was passed by the Republican-led congress and signed into law by President George W. Bush.
That is the biggest issue that Republicans have, even some conservative Democrats, will these numbers bear out?
SANCHEZ: Do you admit, Ed, there is a problem? WHO puts the United States in health care at 37th. Obviously 37th is probably exaggerated. They have us just behind Costa Rica and in front of Cuba. That's obviously embarrassing. Let's suppose we're a third of that, let's suppose we're somewhere between five and 10.
Shouldn't we be number in the world in something like this since we're the richest country in the history of the world?
ROLLINS: We're now spending more than any other country in the world. We spend $2.5 trillion a year on health care, 27 percent of overall economic --
SANCHEZ: So we need a fix?
ROLLINS: We need a fix. Part of the problem is, what most people don't understand is 50 percent of all health care in America is paid for by a government today, which is taxpayers, whether it's Medicare, Medicaid, which is almost 80 million, 90 million people combined. States have to contribute to that.
SANCHEZ: So your solution would be to get the government out of it?
ROLLINS: No, no, the government can't get out of it. My solution is you have to have an understanding there are 110 million people who are privately insured today by corporations or small businesses, another 10 million -- so they have 120 million people who have insurance.
To go in and basically say to those insurance companies, you now have to take on more risk, which I'm all for, it's going to cost more money. The premise is you'll get more people in the system -- maybe you do, maybe you don't.
SANCHEZ: Your point is a consistent one, then. Roland, your response?
MARTIN: Rick, it's also important to understand that when you talk about a national health care plan right now, it's called county hospitals. What often happens is when these folks lose their jobs, when you see cutbacks in cities when it comes to clinics, they shift a lot of that burden to county hospitals who are required to treat people.
SANCHEZ: We understand that.
MARTIN: No, no, I'm simply making a point that when you talk about what you're already paying, in many ways you're shifting dollars. That's what you're trying to do by saying cover everyone.
SANCHEZ: So -- but here's the point, and I think Ed and you, there's a lot of common ground here between what I hear --
ROLLINS: As usual with Roland and I.
(LAUGHTER)
MARTIN: Ed, we have lots of common ground.
SANCHEZ: The Republicans are saying you can't just do this all at once, you have to do it little by little. And the president is saying you can't do it little by little, because it won't get done little by little. So ten seconds each just to close out. Roland, I'll let you finish. Who's right here?
MARTIN: Very simple. First of all, both are right, but the person who is in charge is the president. The Democrats control the House and Senate. It's all up to them. If the Democrats can't come together, it's on them. They cannot blame Republicans for this. This has been a staple of the Democratic Party for 30 some odd years. Can they lead? That's the lead issue.
ROLLINS: Or is it, Ed, as Colin Powell says, trying to take off more than you can chew?
SANCHEZ: I think in this case with the tremendous deficits we have, we're trying to take on more than we can handle right today, and this next generation will pay the price.
SANCHEZ: Ed Rollins, Roland Martin, my thanks to both of you, good, spirited discussion. I appreciate both sides.
Now this.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's a lot of experiences, a lot of them are not happy and you want to keep them to yourself. It's war, and it's war from a different perspective.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: You know "The Hurt Locker," right, that movie a lot of us saw, rumored to take the best pictures at the Oscars this weekend? It's all about these guys that go out and disarm these explosives -- fantastic movie, by the way. How real is that? Are there people who actually do that?
We went out to find out who these guys are, we've interviewed them. Wait until you immediate them and hear their stories. It's coming up. Stay right there.
This is THE LIST. We're scrolling on for your, folks.
