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Rick's List
Can Democrats Pass Health Care Reform?; Students Protest Rising Cost of Tuition
Aired March 04, 2010 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: Another day, another member of the New York governor's team quits. It looks like a scandal involving Governor Paterson is dragging down everybody, except for Paterson. We will have the latest on that.
And here's what else you are going to see.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LEMON (voice-over): Making the list on your national conversation:
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: At stake right now is not just our ability to solve this problem, but our ability to solve any problem.
LEMON: Now those words are put to the test. Can congressional leaders stare down the president in person and block health care? Signs of compromise and conflict. Majority Whip James Clyburn joins me live.
Skyrocketing costs, deep budget cuts prompting a national day of action on education.
Fans, pellet guns, horses, and police. Those just never mix, do they?
The lists you need to know about. Who is "Today's Most Intriguing"? Who is making news on Twitter? Your national conversation continues.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LEMON: Hello, everyone, Don Lemon here, holding down the fort until Rick Sanchez gets back. And, hopefully, that will be tomorrow.
I want to show you this. By his own admission, the president says Washington is running into a credibility issue when it comes to passing the health care bill. President Obama sounded the charge just yesterday. Now he's trying to get enough House Democrats on board.
This afternoon, the president met with key Democrats, while, on the Hill, we heard two different views on where things stand. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA), SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: It is pretty exciting, because we feel that we are on the brink of making very important history.
REP. JOHN BOEHNER (R-OH), HOUSE MINORITY LEADER: It looks like chaos on the other side of the aisle.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: All right, so here's the problem for Democrats. Thirty-nine House members voted no last year. Now a group of Democrats say they are planning to vote no because they don't think the Senate version goes far off enough blocking federal funding of abortion.
Other Democrats are unhappy with concessions on issues like health savings accounts. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi is putting on a brave face, while acknowledging a tough fight ahead, and reminding people they haven't seen the final bill yet.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PELOSI: We take it -- a new vote every time. This is a -- every vote -- every legislative vote is a heavy lift around here. You assume nothing, assume nothing in terms of where you were before and where people may be now. You start one, two, three, four, all the way up to a majority vote.
And respecting the questions that they have, we believe that the product will be good.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Now to the other side in the House. The House minority leader, Republican John Boehner says, it is not a done deal. And he urged opponents to push those wavering Democrats.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BOEHNER: How many Democrats are going to side with a speaker over their constituents? And how many Democrats are willing to vote blind, when the American people strongly oppose this bill and small business owners are terrified by it?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: And, at the White House today, the administration met with top health insurance executives about their company's double-digit rate hikes, using it as a case to push for reform.
Now, Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius says she's hearing from people who cannot afford to pay their insurance.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KATHLEEN SEBELIUS, U.S. HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES SECRETARY: Terrified that they are next. If they are not affected directly right now, you know, what's going to happen next? And, clearly, it is not one state or one company or one isolated situation. I think the individual and small group market is seeing double-digit rate increases across the board. And it is one of the reasons that the president is very eager to have a comprehensive health reform bill that, among other things, has a new marketplace.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: So, the president went to that same meeting that Secretary Sebelius went to. It was after, though, the cameras were there. It was closed to cameras.
And a spokesman there, Robert Gibbs, says the president asked the insurance executives to justify their rate increases and read a letter from an Ohio woman with cancer who couldn't pay for insurance. Gibbs says the president is staying focused while he tries to persuade executives and House members.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERT GIBBS, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: The president will do much of what I just did, which is describe the benefits of the legislation, why it would help constituents -- their constituents, whether they are in Ohio, like this woman, or somewhere else in this country, why this is important for our country, and why it is important for them, and again reiterating why -- what happens if we walk away from reform? What happens if we -- everyone just takes their toys and goes home?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: All right. So, next week, the president goes to Missouri and Pennsylvania, two battleground states, in his fight for health care reform.
So, up next, students and professors taking to the streets all across the country. What has them so riled up? What else? Money. You are looking at live pictures now. We are going to take you there, the whole story just two minutes way.
Also ahead, what do these two guys have in common? For starters, they are at the center of a controversy that's led to the suspension of three elementary school teachers. Hmm.
That and much, much more still to come, so make sure you stay with us right here on RICK'S LIST.
Hey, Rick, when are you coming back?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: Students and professors around the country today are trading in chalk boards for picket signs. They're calling it a day of action against state budget cuts slashing education funding in many states.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE) (END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: There you go, the scene in Denver captured by one of our iReporters. Hundreds march on the steps of the state capitol -- students also protesting this afternoon at the University of Central Florida in Orlando. Thirty-three states in all are seeing similar protests.
But nowhere are the protests bigger than in California. And this is Los Angeles that you are looking at right now. Students are upset over a billion dollars, a billion-dollar cut from education spending since 2008, with classes canceled and fees going up 182 percent.
Is that a live picture? Yes? No, not a live picture?
OK. We're going to get you to a live one. That's a live picture, all right. You asked for it, you have you it, Don.
Another big protest under way in San Francisco at San Francisco State University.
And in the middle of it all, right now, our Dan Simon.
Dan, we are hearing speakers. How big is the protest you're at?
DAN SIMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Don, we are in the thick of it, at least on the edge of it.
I'm going to go ahead and take out my earpiece, because I'm getting a little bit of feedback. But if we pan the crowd, you can see that easily a few thousand people here. I'm going to tell you why we chose San Francisco State University in just a moment.
But, first, I want to introduce you to Tyler (ph) here. She is a fifth-year senior, actually wants to be a teacher some day.
And, Tyler, I -- I want to you speak from the heart for a second. I want you to tell me how these cuts have affected you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, I work at two jobs, go to school full-time just to make ends meet. I have been here a really long time. I struggled to get classes to be able to keep my financial aid every semester. And I really don't know when I'm going to be able to get out of here.
Every semester, you know, something is cut, and I can't get the class I need. And who knows when I will be out of here.
SIMON: And, Don, that's an important point she is making. The reason why so many classes have been cut is because they have eliminated about 200 professors here on campus.
And that -- and this is one student's perspective. I'm going to give you the professor's perspective right now. I'm going to go ahead and walk over now to Professor Jason Ferreira. He teaches ethnic studies. Now, the reason why we are here in San Francisco State is because the students here, they really represent working-class families. These students, most of them come from families who do not make more than -- than $70,000 a year. And, because of that, because of that, they are really struggling with these tuition increases.
This is Jason Ferreira. He teaches ethnic studies.
And we spoke to you yesterday. You yourself, as a result of these education cuts, taking a 10 percent decrease in your pay, what has that meant for you?
JASON FERREIRA, ETHNIC STUDIES PROFESSOR, SAN FRANCISCO STATE UNIVERSITY: Well, like I said yesterday, it has impacted -- it has impacted us in many ways, principally financially, in the sense that now living expenses are less.
I mean, I took about a $600 pay -- $600 pay cut, buying groceries on my credit cards, living month-to-month, living like a graduate student all over again, even though -- except, now, I have to pay rent and I have to pay loans.
SIMON: All right. What do you make of this crowd, I mean, obviously, a huge crowd? You guys were very well-organized. And I should say that you are a professor. You're part of this whole effort.
This is -- this is unusual, in the sense that you have got professors, employees, students all coming together for this one issue.
FERREIRA: Oh, it is beautiful. I mean, in a lot of ways, what's happening now is the political algebra has been reconfigured.
I mean, in the past, students organized separately from faculty; faculty organized separately from the staff. And, today, what you see is people coming together. It is -- it is -- it is quite remarkable.
SIMON: All right. So -- so, Don -- thank you, professor. I appreciate it.
So, Don, that's the situation here. They are going to be out here for a better part of the afternoon. I can tell you that, so far, the crowds have been peaceful. But there is some buzz around campus that some of these students may attempt to occupy a building, may go inside, put chains around it, and not let anybody in. That happened in December, last time there was a protest.
There's buzz that it's going to happen again. I can tell you, if it does happen, police will be out here immediately. And let's just hope that things don't get ugly -- Don.
LEMON: So, Dan, listen, you spoke to that member of the administration there. Do most members of the administration feel the same way there? They are supporting these students, these protesters in many ways, right?
SIMON: You know what? I just talked to the person in charge of public relations here at the university. And the way she put it, that they were actually hand in hand with -- with the students, putting this protest together. So, that definitely tells you something.
Officially, they haven't taken a position, but the fact that they are out here themselves, many administrators out here themselves, tells you that they are very much in support of what's happening. And I also checked over at Berkeley, where there's also, of course, another huge protest going around. And the administrators told me the identical thing -- Don.
LEMON: All right, Dan. Thank you very much, Dan, doing a great job there.
And, again, this is live. And, if something happens, we will get back live to that protest. We're live really all over the country, where these protests are happening.
And we also have some of the students who are participating in those protests. They are tweeting us.
Can we show this real quickly? This one is from Rick's Twitter page. It says: "We have very little knowledge of where our money goes and what the university is doing with it." UCSD, that's what -- and then another person says -- Jose Mendez says: "We have to fight for the kids in the future who won't be able to afford to take classes here."
Go over to the left. This one is from mine, I thought, and interesting. It says: "Costs of higher education, Don, is going to destroy our ability to take our country into the future. We need to get a hold of this."
So, you can see people are pretty passionate about it, not just the students that you saw there at the protest, but people all over the country who are tweeting us. Those -- two of those were from students who were at the protest, and one just from a viewer who is watching.
So, thank you, guys, very much.
Up next: those first frantic efforts to save a SeaWorld trainer's life. We will have the 911 call made minutes after the killer whale pulled her into the tank. And we will play it for you when we come right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: This was big breaking news, and we followed it all last week. We are just getting in the 911 calls from last week's deadly killer whale attack at SeaWorld.
Now, listen to this amazing voice of a calm -- of calm among amid the frantic moments after Tilikum, the whale, dragged trainer Dawn Brancheau by her ponytail and dragged her into its tank.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
ORANGE COUNTY FIRE RESCUE OPERATOR: Orange County Fire Rescue.
911 CALLER: Sixty-six hundred Sea Harbor Drive.
ORANGE COUNTY, FLORIDA, FIRE RESCUE OPERATOR: OK.
911 CALLER: SeaWorld.
(CROSSTALK)
ORANGE COUNTY, FLORIDA, FIRE RESCUE OPERATOR: OK. And where is the patient located inside the park?
911 CALLER: They are at Shamu Stadium.
We actually have a trainer in the water with one of our whales, the whale that they are not supposed to be in the water with.
ORANGE COUNTY, FLORIDA, FIRE RESCUE OPERATOR: OK.
911 CALLER: So, we don't know what's going on. We were just told to call and have people here on standby when they get the person out.
ORANGE COUNTY, FLORIDA, FIRE RESCUE OPERATOR: OK. And do you know if -- so, you don't know if the person was injured or if they are having a medical problem?
(CROSSTALK)
911 CALLER: No idea.
ORANGE COUNTY, FLORIDA, FIRE RESCUE OPERATOR: OK. Very well then.
911 CALLER: I don't even think they are out of the water yet. They are still in there with the whale. So --
ORANGE COUNTY, FLORIDA, FIRE RESCUE OPERATOR: OK. But someone is on scene and they are getting them out of the water now?
(CROSSTALK)
911 CALLER: There are people working on it, yes.
ORANGE COUNTY, FLORIDA, FIRE RESCUE OPERATOR: OK.
911 CALLER: There are two, three dozen people over there right now.
ORANGE COUNTY, FLORIDA, FIRE RESCUE OPERATOR: All right. We will get somebody en route. And --
911 CALLER: OK.
(CROSSTALK)
911 CALLER: -- through gate number three to Shamu Stadium.
ORANGE COUNTY, FLORIDA, FIRE RESCUE OPERATOR: Gate three.
911 CALLER: Gate three.
ORANGE COUNTY, FLORIDA, FIRE RESCUE OPERATOR: All right. Got it.
911 CALLER: OK?
ORANGE COUNTY, FLORIDA, FIRE RESCUE OPERATOR: Thank you.
911 CALLER: Thank you. Bye.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
LEMON: Wow. Considering that we know the outcome, that was very calm.
Dawn Brancheau was buried Monday in suburban Chicago.
Up next: a woman who volunteered to get cut by the budget axe? Why? Well, we will tell you why, because that's what really is making her our most intriguing person today. And find out who she is when we come right back.
The LIST is scrolling on.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: OK. So, jobs are scarce, right? We know that.
But let me ask you, would you give up your career so a co-worker could remain employed? Ponder that as I tell you about today's most intriguing person.
All right. So, she is a 40-year-old mother of four. When her employer announced they were cutting 11 jobs for budget reasons, she looked around and made a really hard choice. She wasn't getting laid off, but her co-worker was.
So, she voluntarily gave up her job of seven years and her salary and benefits, so her friend could continue to work. She says this about her selfless act. Listen what she says. This is a quote from her.
She says: "I thought that I could possibly cope with the loss of a job better than my co-workers. And every day I live my life and think about what positive influence I could have."
Lots of people talk it. This lady actually walked it. Her name is Patricia Overy. She is going to hang out with her kids for a while. Then she is going to look for another job. She's definitely one of the most intriguing and, I would say, most selfless people.
All right, time now for more of your feedback and responses. Let's take this one. This one is from Rick's Twitter page. We want to say that John Boehner is one of the people that we follow. He follows us, Rick, on Rick's page.
He says, "Since there's bipartisan opposition to the Dems' government takeover of #hc" -- which means health care -- "why not scrap the bill and start over?"
Again, that's from John Boehner. That's the GOP leader. He says, "Since there's bipartisan opposition to the Dems' government takeover of health care, why not scrap the bill and start over?"
Tweet us back at RickSanchez or DonLemon. And we will read it. We will try to get your responses on.
This one is from a viewer here who saw our reporting on the fund- raising and saw our interview with James Clyburn. He says -- this is from Jarrod1986. He says, "Don, it is sad that the Republicans scare the very people who need health care into their chat points."
Thank you very much. We appreciate it. Again, always like your comments. We will get more of them on the air.
So, let's move on now and talk about role models. There are role models, and then there are role models, and then there are these guys. Three elementary teachers thought O.J. Simpson and Dennis Rodman were a great way to teach kids about Black History Month.
What do you think? Back with that and more.
(LAUGHTER)
LEMON: Stay with us. Oh, there's RuPaul, too.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: All right, time for a little pop quiz.
(LAUGHTER)
LEMON: You want to watch this?
Brooke is going to join me in a little bit, but --
(LAUGHTER)
LEMON: -- pay attention.
(LAUGHTER)
LEMON: Three role models for Black History Month, right? Who did you come up with? Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. Maybe Nelson Mandela, President Barack Obama, Harriet Tubman. We go on and on.
BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
LEMON: Rosa Parks. Who else?
Well, three teachers in Los Angeles had a very different answer. And some people are calling for their heads now.
Brooke Baldwin --
BALDWIN: Yes, drum roll.
LEMON: -- who did they pick?
BALDWIN: Who did they pick? OK. Here are the three.
(LAUGHTER)
BALDWIN: I'm going to read them to you.
We are talking about O.J. Simpson --
LEMON: Mm-hmm.
BALDWIN: -- Dennis Rodman, and RuPaul.
Now, depending who you ask here, these names can be translated, interpreted as a convicted criminal, an NBA bad boy, and a drag queen, who, by the way, does have a hit TV show, "Drag Race."
LEMON: Turn to the left.
BALDWIN: Uh-huh.
MYERS: Now turn to the right. Sashay, shante.
BALDWIN: Shante.
LEMON: Shante. Remember that?
BALDWIN: So, seriously, though, Don Lemon --
(LAUGHTER)
BALDWIN: -- I talked to the L.A. unified spokesperson.
This is -- this whole thing started Friday. They had this parade. It was a whole day, of course, honoring Black History Month at Wadsworth Elementary School. The kids, they were assigned to carry these pictures and the names of really notable leaders like Don just mentioned, Nelson Mandela, Oprah, Harriet Tubman. You get the -- you get the point, right?
But other kids were carrying pictures of O.J., Rodman and RuPaul. So, Tuesday, just two days ago, the principal of the school got a complaint, led to a deluge of complaints. Soon after, teachers were yanked out of the classroom. They have been placed on administrative leave without pay. And the school superintendent says that's the harshest penalty he could hand out.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They did not endanger the safety, health and welfare of those students. Very, very bad judgment.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: Now, the black leaders in L.A., they are talking tougher. They say these three white teachers should be fired. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REVEREND ERIC LEE, PRESIDENT AND CEO, SOUTHERN CHRISTIAN LEADERSHIP CONFERENCE-LOS ANGELES: To choose these individuals as role models and contributors to American history from African-American community is clearly racist and mockery of the contributions of African- Americans in our society.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There had to be some kind of conspiracy here. How do you get three different teachers in three different grades, three different classes, to come up with the same appalling persons to represent African-Americans and to -- to have those kids walk around with pictures of that?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: Also, today, we are hearing from the Los Angeles mayor. Want to read you just a brief statement.
"These teachers," he says, "undermine the school's well-intentioned celebration, and they did so at the expense of the elementary school students," going on to say, their behavior was myopic, says the teachers lacked poor judgment -- or had poor judgment, but lacked judgment. There were hundreds of outstanding Africa African-American leaders. Why choose three?
It's interesting, though, Don, because in reading and watching some of these pieces that -- that the L.A. affiliates did, we heard from one parent who, unfortunately, I couldn't get on for you. But she said: "To me, there are other things to be outraged about. RuPaul is not one of them."
LEMON: Yes. You know, so, the teachers picked them? The students didn't come up with these on their own?
BALDWIN: Right.
LEMON: Because maybe the students were interested in these figures. No?
BALDWIN: No. From what I understand, they had a list.
LEMON: OK.
BALDWIN: And they wanted to update the list with some more contemporary African-American leaders. And the teachers suggested these three.
LEMON: All right. So, listen, no one is perfect. Nobody is perfect, right? Dennis Rodman, great basketball player in the day, O.J. Simpson, great football player back in the day.
BALDWIN: And, actually, some of the teachers pointed out --
LEMON: RuPaul is -- is a role model for some people. BALDWIN: And I have got to tell you --
LEMON: RuPaul, as far as I know, has never broke any laws, or --
(CROSSTALK)
BALDWIN: RuPaul's people none too pleased --
LEMON: Yes.
BALDWIN: -- about being lumped in this list.
LEMON: Yes.
BALDWIN: I talked to them today.
LEMON: Yes. Has that show, what is it called, "Drag --"
BALDWIN: "Drag Race."
LEMON: "Drag Race," that -- where people want to be drag queens.
BALDWIN: Sure.
LEMON: But here -- but two of these people, we know, have not led exemplary personal lives.
BALDWIN: Right.
LEMON: And that's probably -- that's the controversial part of this.
BALDWIN: And that's why a lot of people up in arms. We will have to see. The teachers are suspended, or they have desk -- they have other jobs, for now. We will have to see if they come back into the classroom at this particular school. To be determined.
LEMON: A conspiracy, though, that guy? I don't know. Maybe just --
BALDWIN: People are entitled to their own opinions, right?
LEMON: Maybe just not thinking.
BALDWIN: Yes.
LEMON: That's usually what falls in -- for most things that happen.
BALDWIN: Yes.
LEMON: People just don't think, right?
BALDWIN: Yes, yes. Maybe not.
LEMON: We only get 28 days. Come on, guys. Give us some good people.
(LAUGHTER) (CROSSTALK)
LEMON: All right. Thank you, Brooke.
BALDWIN: You're welcome.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Because someone disagrees with you doesn't mean they are any less patriotic or care or love this country any less.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: An outgoing congressman vents his frustration, and he is ask not alone. A group of lawmakers tell us that what works and what doesn't work in Washington.
And, up next, boy, it is madness. Chaos breaks out after a college basketball game and their team won -- details coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: A college sports night celebration turns ugly. Really ugly. It made our "Fotos del Dia."
Let's do it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Step back immediately.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Move! Move!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Any time you see something like that, that is not good. Basketball fans spilled out of the U of Maryland game last night and got a little too rowdy.
Riot police on horseback shut things down, but not before 27 people -- 27 -- arrested. Police say students started throwing snowballs and ice at officers.
You've got be careful, Brooke, when -- especially when --
(CROSSTALK)
BALDWIN: But you know who they beat -- Duke.
LEMON: Duke. So, are you saying there should be a riot?
BALDWIN: I'm sorry. I'm a Tar Heel. So I'll just put that out there.
LEMON: Come on. It's just a game. Let's all play nice.
So we've got next more mayhem. So Roger should what -- you think he should roll it?
BALDWIN: Roll it.
LEMON: Yes. Roll it, Roger.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You are denying people the right to speak.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: You want to now why I'm so rowdy?
BALDWIN: Why?
LEMON: Because I used to live in Brooklyn and I went to college there. This is Brooklyn, New York, just last night.
A hearing held by the city's transit system got tense when protesters refused to stop shouting. Four people were taken away in handcuffs. They were voicing their anger at a plan to cut bus routes and end the student metro card program.
That's serious business there, because there are lots of colleges there. I went to Brooklyn College and --
BALDWIN: You need it? You need it?
LEMON: Yes, absolutely. You don't have any money as a student. We've been talking about that all hour.
BALDWIN: Look at that puppy dog.
LEMON: Look at this. Oh.
BALDWIN: So what's going on?
LEMON: This is the L.A. River. It was yesterday. Did you see this yesterday?
BALDWIN: No.
LEMON: A little dog was in trouble, caught up in the rushing water. You can see it there.
BALDWIN: Now he's OK.
LEMON: And here comes the help. You saw that from rescuers. Swooped in, they scooped him up.
Look at the little dog all dry.
BALDWIN: He's like, please give me some food.
LEMON: It's a she.
BALDWIN: Oh, she.
LEMON: Yes. She's awfully tired. It looks like she's dry and safe. Look at that.
BALDWIN: So cute.
LEMON: That was a nice scoop job, huh?
BALDWIN: Very talented fire and rescue, yes.
LEMON: Here's the issue, Brooke. No I.D., no chip, no collar, nothing. But, as you can see, the doggie is well groomed and healthy. Can we see the cute picture of the doggie one more time?
BALDWIN: You've got to put the chip in the dog. My dog has a chip.
LEMON: Let's show the up-close. Someone might recognize her.
BALDWIN: What are they calling the dog? Splash, right?
LEMON: Splash. A cutie.
OK. So listen -- they're hoping the family comes to get the dog.
BALDWIN: Rescue.
LEMON: Yes. Anyway, she is being called Slash. And I want to tell you -- I was trying to get an up-close photo so her family could see her. I know we've got to move on.
Let's go. There we go. There she is.
BALDWIN: Cutie.
LEMON: Go get the doggie. She misses you.
That's "Fotos."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The price of telling the truth is increasingly higher because you get hit from both sides.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: That is just one of the reasons so many politicians are saying good-bye to Capitol Hill. Up next, my conversation with six congressmen. They share their thoughts about the gridlock, the partisan politics and the endless cycle of fund-raising.
We're back in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: Time now for maybe one of the most candid conversations you have seen from lawmakers. So pay attention to this. This election year, a lot of incumbents are quitting Congress rather than run. So it's not how many that's striking, but the universal sense among those bowing out that Congress is broken. We hear it from both parties, our political system is broken.
So here are six departing members of Congress, four Democrats, two Republicans, speaking openly about the problem to yours truly.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LEMON: What's interesting to me, because all of you guys have had, you know, careers before, you know, clinical psychologists, scientists, whatever.
Why are you concerned about having this job? There are other jobs. It seems like you guys were in a position to -- anyone -- some of the smartest people I've -- you know, resumes I've seen, to tell people what the actual truth is and --
REP. VERNON EHLERS (R), MICHIGAN: That's why I'm leaving.
(CROSSTALK)
REP. BRIAN BAIRD (D), WASHINGTON: What Vernon is saying, that the price of telling the truth is basically high, because you get hit from both sides. Centrism is tough. Being willing to say to your own party, I disagree with this party position, is a tough position. There will be consequences for that.
LEMON: Is that part of why all of you are leaving? Is there some frustration?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Clearly frustration in trying to get things done.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Absolutely.
REP. JOHN TANNER (D), TENNESSEE: That and the time constraint. I compare the voting card to a dialysis machine.
(LAUGHTER)
LEMON: OK, listen.
TANNER: I want to be with my grandchildren. I want to be a (INAUDIBLE), and I can't, I have this job.
REP. BART GORDON (D), TENNESSEE: Also, the enormous amount of money that you have to raise for campaigns. The enormous amount of money being spent against you in campaigns, which is taking one sliver of your record and often times misrepresenting it.
LEMON: OK. Let me ask you a couple of questions. These are viewer questions, right. Ask if they are going to get a job as a lobbyist when they leave.
Anybody? EHLERS: If I did, it would be as an unpaid lobbyist.
REP. DENNIS MOORE (D), KANSAS: I've been a lawyer for 28 years. I've been in Congress for 12 years. If I become a lobbyist, that's strike three, I think.
(LAUGHTER)
LEMON: So, an unpaid lobbyist for what?
EHLERS: Good causes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sure. I mean, that's important. Vernon's point is well taken. You can be a lobbyist for some very good causes here.
LEMON: So, it's not out of the realm of possibilities?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No.
LEMON: OK.
Can Congress ever become a vital tool for the people instead of individual politicians and public interest greed? That's a question.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Absolutely.
REP. JOHN SHADEGG (R), ARIZONA: Although there is some individual interest's too much and too much greed.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
LEMON: Why are they so unwilling to find common ground to govern on? I am truly ashamed of our representatives and their pigheadedness.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Actually, people -- many of us -- you're looking at a group here who actually is pretty willing to do that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Work together.
SHADEGG: I think that perception is wrong. I think, in point in fact, we do work together. And I think we just agreed that some substantial proportion of the legislation that goes through here, 65 to 85 percent is bipartisan and does work on both sides of the aisle. The high profile stuff is where there are intense disagreements philosophically on what is the right course to take. And you've got to debate those. You're going to disagree about those.
That's not -- that's not a personal pique. That's a matter of principle for a lot of us.
LEMON: OK.
If government is broken or if there are so many issues facing the American people, why quit now? Why give up?
EHLERS: I'm not giving up. I've been here 16 years. I think I've had more than my share of time representing the people. And I'm 76 years old, 11 years past normal retirement. I thought, you know, why not give someone else a chance to do this job.
LEMON: And finally, someone says, "Are they leaving because of Obama?"
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Absolutely not.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't believe anybody said that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm leaving because of William and Walter -- two 5-year-old boys.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And I've got nine grandkids I didn't have when I started. It's a lot of personal --
TANNER: I want to bring up something that John said, that increasingly in the country there seems to be from the wings this inability to grant to one who disagrees with them the same purity of motive and patriotic fervor they claim for themselves. And that is -- and it bleeds over here to some degree, because that's who we hear from.
But the American people, I think, need to take a check, and -- because someone disagrees with you, doesn't mean they're any less patriotic or care or love this country any less. It's called freedom.
LEMON: Everybody sticking their heads up?
ALL: Absolutely.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Both sides.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well said.
LEMON: Thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you.
LEMON: This is very informative.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LEMON: So, coming up, did you know that the way you voice your frustration has a direct impact on the political process and whether or not government is fixed? We're going to play more of my conversation coming up in just a little bit. And I want to tell you about this. We have been telling you about Charlie Rangel. You know, he said he was temporarily, yesterday, going to step down as chair of the House Ways and Means Committee, right?
We're getting a tweet now on Rick's Twitter from the person who is going to take over for him. It is Sandy Levin here, and here is what Congressman Levin is saying. "Pleased to take on chairmanship of pleased to take on chairmanship of W&M," which is Ways and Means. Looking forward to moving vigorously on job creation, economic development and health care."
So, already tweeting he is ready to take over. No more Charlie Rangel, at least for a little while.
Remember we told you about Charlie Rangel. Right? Charlie Rangel is going to be on "LARRY KING LIVE."
This just in to CNN, developing news. Charlie Rangel just canceled his exclusive interview with Larry. We are told that Larry spoke with him directly. That's all the information.
I know as soon as I get more guidance -- but I'm being told now by the higher-ups, no Charlie Rangel tonight in that exclusive interview. Wonder why. He's been very talkative. Wonder why he is canceling.
So, stay tuned. We'll tell you about that if we get more information.
Another day, another member of the New York governor's team quits. A scandal seems to be bringing everyone down except for Governor Paterson. We'll bring you the latest on this political soap opera that just won't end.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: So, we have been calling this, you know, the exit interview. Right? I had a chat with six congressmen who are saying they are not going to run for re-election. By their own accord, they said some of it is because they are fed up with what's going on in Washington.
Not only in Washington, but what's happening with the public, you, the voter, and what's happening back in their own districts. Maybe everyone needs to self-assess, including Congress and including yourself.
Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BAIRD: If we're calling on the Congress to be more functional, we need the public to be more functional. When people believe that the best way to conduct themselves at town halls or in blogs is to just get up and shout someone down, instead of having a reasonable discussion -- I've had 300 town halls, and many of them, very, very good, productive discussions. But when you read the kind of stuff that is increasingly is on the blogs and the Internet, et cetera, it's just become a free fire zone. And it's who can say the nastiest, meanest, most obscene thing they possibly can, and not give fair due to discussions and facts.
We have got to somehow address that and encourage people to say, it's one thing to say I profoundly disagree with this person's position, here is why, here's an alternative. That's another thing than calling somebody a list of names that I can't repeat or you'd get a $500,000 fine.
LEMON: Let me -- I will let you make a point. And I want quick answers, so I will ask you -- this will be the bonus round.
(LAUGHTER)
LEMON: I'll let you make your point, and then I want some quick answers.
MOORE: All right. I think that people -- the people out in the country expect us to be civil and respectful and try to work together to get things accomplished for our country and for our people. They understand, I understand, all of us understand, we can have honest differences. But still, we should try to be civil and respectful and work together.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Absolutely.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Absolutely.
LEMON: You guys agree. OK.
So, listen, I'm going to ask you -- you can do a show of hands. Is government broken? If you believe it is, raise your hand. If you believe --
TANNER: What about fractured?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Does it need a repair job?
MOORE: It needs reform here in terms of how people get here.
LEMON: OK.
BAIRD: There need to be process reforms. Look, both sides -- both sides have brought bills up with less than 24 hours to read, thousand- page bills. Both sides have done it.
Both sides bring up rules in the House where the other side gets no amendments. No amendments on health care bills.
Our side did is on the health care bill. There was one amendment. No Republican amendments. That was wrong.
The Republicans did the same thing to us on the Medicare prescription drug bill. That was wrong. Those procedural reforms have to happen. I think the consensus here would be is that Congress is not broken, but it's not working as well and it should. And I don't think you could get one reason for that. We would have a variety of reasons and a variety of different kinds of cures. But the public deserves better.
LEMON: What do you think the main reason, is it partisanship? What's the main reason? Do you -- you said the government is fractured and in need of reform, right? Is that --
EHLERS: Well, basically, we disagree with each other a lot. I think that's healthy.
LEMON: Ok, so then what is -- what is --
EHLERS: But from the outside, some people interpret that as a constant fighting, a lack of civility and so forth. It isn't. We get along pretty well with our colleagues, no matter which party.
LEMON: That's the way it was set up.
EHLERS: We are here to debate with each other. We are here to present our own point of view as strongly as we can in doing the best job of representing our people. That may look to some people like an argument or a fight or something, it isn't. We're here to represent our people.
(CROSSTALK)
SHADEGG: I think the intense concentration of power has caused partisanship to get worse. And I think Brian is right. What that means is there are all kinds of procedural abuses, where the minority and minority's rights are not honored. It's been done by Republicans to Democrats, Democrats to Republicans. And it leads to an interaction to us not being able to get the work done, and it focuses on the divide rather than the points where we can come together.
LEMON: OK. If I can get to one -- if you can health care, if you can say partisanship or whatever you think it is, not listening, what do you think the biggest problem with government is now?
SHADEGG: It needs to be reformed to where it is accountable to the people. Too much is hidden.
LEMON: OK.
EHLERS: I would say one our biggest problems is that people -- a good many people want more from the government than they give to the government. And so they are very unhappy with us. They want more health care and more benefits of some sort or another.
LEMON: Lower expectations of what can be done?
TANNER: The gerrymandering of the districts and how members are elected. GORDON: I think the process that has developed where Democrats and Republicans can't sit down together and try to work out compromise and try to find common solutions to the problems facing us. And again, a lot of that starts with John premise that too many come with a partisan background.
MOORE: People look at what Congress is doing as far as spending goes and its out-of-control spending. I belong, a couple of here belong to a group called the blue dog coalition. We believe that most -- we should living -- our country should be living within a budget like most American families do. And I think, individually, most members of Congress feel that way as well.
BAIRD: We have to conduct ourselves with honesty and integrity, and that means telling the truth, even if it is difficult and even if it costs us our election.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Absolutely.
BAIRD: We also need reform of campaign finance laws.
LEMON: So you are saying many people in Congress don't tell the truth even if --
BAIRD: I think the pressure to pander to one side or the other, typically your own side, even if you know that the math isn't there, the reality is the other side has some good points. We've got to say to people the hard truths, especially now.
SHADEGG: We're pressured to get re-elected at any price.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LEMON: Did you hear that? The pressure to get re-elected at any price.
Thank you, Congressmen.
And the reason he said that is because gerrymandering, most of them agreed that was one of the biggest issues facing Congress, gerrymandering. The way the districts are drawn, they believe it creates the ultra partisanship that eventually plays out in Washington.
Thank you again, Congressmen.
After earthquakes in Haiti and Chile, there's error any time the ground shakes there. So, images from the latest quakes, this one in Taiwan, when we come right back.
THE LIST scrolls on.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: Welcome back to THE LIST, everyone. I'm Don Lemon in for Rick Sanchez today. You know, CNN, of course we are dedicated to covering your education issue. So make sure you send us your personal stories.
We have an in-box dedicated to just this topic, and I'm going to give you the site here. It's education@CNN.com. Again, it's very easy, education@CNN.com.
Speaking of education, more protests around the country to tell you about this hour, as students and professors protest huge education budget cuts.
Look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED GROUP: Hey, hey! Go home!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: This is the scene at the University of Massachusetts Amherst. It's sent in to us by one of our iReporters. More than 200 protesters were there, in and outside of the building.
And from Milwaukee now, at least 15 students were arrested during protests at the University of Wisconsin, Milwaukee. We're told dozens of students tried to rush inside after one student was allowed in to drop off pamphlets in the chancellor's office. Police made arrests when students began pushing and shoving.
We will update you on all of this.
So, you ever have something that will just ruin your vacation? This one really takes it to the extreme. This is one of those stories, but it's an extreme story.
A luxury cruise, 12 days at sea, in the Mediterranean. And from out of nowhere, look at that, huge waves, almost 30 feet high. Did you see that?
They smashed right into the ship, shattering windows. Two people on board were killed. Passengers say the water was pretty rough beforehand, but nobody was prepared for exactly what happened.
(WEATHER REPORT)
LEMON: I'm Don Lemon, in today for Rick Sanchez.
Now we turn it over to "THE SITUATION ROOM" and Mr. Wolf Blitzer.
