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Rick's List

President Obama's Final Health Care Reform Push; Georgia Police Hold News Conference on Ben Roethlisberger; Could Iraqi Democracy Spread?

Aired March 08, 2010 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

RICK SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR: Two developing news stories that are taking place as we move forward.

One, now there's only one left, one Idaho missionary left in that jail in Haiti. And, two, Ben Roethlisberger, will he be charged? Will police say he's clear? Who did what? This is the ongoing story -- news conference coming up in now about a minute or so. Stay right there.

Here's what else we have got coming your way.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SANCHEZ (voice-over): Here's what's making THE LIST.

Goldman Sachs reveals their profit plan to insiders, and the president jumps all over it.

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: These insurance companies have made a calculation. There was a conference call that was organized by Goldman Sachs.

SANCHEZ: Ouch. Mr. Obama's new strategy, will it work?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We shall continue to target you at home and abroad.

SANCHEZ: Have we captured an American out --.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SANCHEZ: All right. Let's get out of this, because, in Milledgeville, Georgia, the news conference on the Beth -- Ben Roethlisberger affair has just begun. Let's listen in.

(JOINED IN PROGRESS)

WOODROW BLUE, MILLEDGEVILLE, GEORGIA, POLICE CHIEF: We anticipate that these interviews would be in the next two to three days. At this time, that will end my prepared statement.

I will take two or three questions.

QUESTION: What does that mean, that they're cooperating? BLUE: They are helping in the investigation.

QUESTION: DNA tests or anything like that?

BLUE: Not at this time.

QUESTION: Will you -- will you ask for those?

BLUE: Pardon me?

QUESTION: Will you ask for those, for DNA samples for Mr. Roethlisberger?

BLUE: Yes, at some point.

QUESTION: What why the victim taken to the hospital? What was her condition? And -- and did you gain any evidence at the hospital?

BLUE: We're not getting into specific details at this time. We're still into the investigative process of this investigation.

(CROSSTALK)

QUESTION: Chief, could you possibly verify whether this was a rape or a sexual assault? Or can you characterize what exactly happened?

BLUE: Again, we're not getting into the specific allegations at this time.

(CROSSTALK)

QUESTION: Do you anticipate bringing Mr. Roethlisberger back to Milledgeville?

BLUE: We anticipate interviewing him at some point in the next couple of days.

(CROSSTALK)

BLUE: On this side. I'm sorry.

(CROSSTALK)

QUESTION: Chief Blue, have you interviewed them since Friday? That was the question.

BLUE: Excuse me. Someone --

(CROSSTALK)

QUESTION: Yes. I'm asking, have you interviewed Roethlisberger since the early morning of Friday?

BLUE: No, we have not.

QUESTION: And do you plan to interview him here, or will it take place --

(CROSSTALK)

BLUE: We're not going to disclose at this time the location of that interview.

QUESTION: The club --

BLUE: One more question.

QUESTION: The club has tapes inside.

QUESTION: Did the victim identify Roethlisberger as the potential suspect?

BLUE: Yes, she did.

QUESTION: The club has tapes.

BLUE: And, at that time, that will be to end the press conference. Thank you.

QUESTION: Can we talk to Mr. Davis (ph)?

QUESTION: Can Mr. Davis take a few questions?

BLUE: Yes.

QUESTION: Mr. Davis, the club has tapes, surveillance tapes. There are about a dozen cameras. Have you obtained any tapes for the investigation?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're still in the process of looking at various businesses in Milledgeville and -- and videos that they have. We are aware of that. And -- and that has been looked into. But, as far as what the contents are, we're not going to go into -- into anything dealing with -- with any of the investigative facts that have been done at this particular time.

QUESTION: Have you (OFF-MIKE) interviewed the accuser at all?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Have I personally?

QUESTION: Has your department?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There has been contact between our departments and the accuser, yes.

QUESTION: How would you -- how would you look at her credibility? Is her credibility good?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm not going to go into what her credibility is.

QUESTION: Does she have legal representation?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, she does. QUESTION: Can you tell us the name of the attorney?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, I cannot.

QUESTION: Can you describe her -- her demeanor on Thursday night, Friday morning, when she first (OFF-MIKE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, I can't. I -- I wasn't here. And, as far as what her demeanor was or what her emotional state was, that's not something that we will discuss out here either.

QUESTION: Sir, did she submit to a blood alcohol test herself?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm not sure.

QUESTION: How many interviews do you expect to be conducting in the coming days?

BLUE: Last question.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This will be the last question.

We anticipate that these interviews would be in the next two to three days. At this time, that will end my prepared statement.

I will take two or three questions.

QUESTION: What does that mean, that they're cooperating?

BLUE: They are helping in the investigation.

QUESTION: DNA tests or anything like that?

BLUE: Not at this time.

QUESTION: Will you -- will you ask for those?

BLUE: Pardon me?

QUESTION: Will you ask for those, for DNA samples for Mr. Roethlisberger?

BLUE: Yes, at some point.

QUESTION: What why the victim taken to the hospital? What was her condition? And -- and did you gain any evidence at the hospital?

BLUE: We're not getting into specific details at this time. We're still into the investigative process of this investigation.

(CROSSTALK)

QUESTION: Chief, could you possibly verify whether this was a rape or a sexual assault? Or can you characterize what exactly happened?

BLUE: Again, we're not getting into the specific allegations at this time.

(CROSSTALK)

QUESTION: Do you anticipate bringing Mr. Roethlisberger back to Milledgeville?

BLUE: We anticipate interviewing him at some point in the next couple of days.

(CROSSTALK)

BLUE: On this side. I'm sorry.

(CROSSTALK)

QUESTION: Chief Blue, have you interviewed them since Friday? That was the question.

BLUE: Excuse me. Someone --

(CROSSTALK)

QUESTION: Yes. I'm asking, have you interviewed Roethlisberger since the early morning of Friday?

BLUE: No, we have not.

QUESTION: And do you plan to interview him here, or will it take place --

(CROSSTALK)

BLUE: We're not going to disclose at this time the location of that interview.

QUESTION: The club --

BLUE: One more question.

QUESTION: The club has tapes inside.

QUESTION: Did the victim identify Roethlisberger as the potential suspect?

BLUE: Yes, she did.

We anticipate probably eight interviews. And we will hopefully doing those in the next two or three days.

Thank you.

(CROSSTALK)

SANCHEZ: You -- you noticed that last -- that last question was not answered: Why was Ben Roethlisberger released in the first place? And -- and just to catch you up on the timing of this -- I know a lot of this is happening really fast -- the fact of the matter is, when the incident happened, apparently, she made the allegations or -- against him of sexual assault.

According to the reports that we have received that police have -- what police have said is that they interviewed both of them at the time. They interviewed the 20-year-old, and they interviewed Roethlisberger, the 28-year-old. And, since then, the story has carried on.

This is the next step in the story. And you just heard police say, interestingly enough that they would quantify this, that they're expecting to do eight more interviews with them over the next couple days, as interesting as that may sound.

Roger, do me a favor. We missed the very beginning of this news conference, because we had just started the show. We didn't think -- let me know, Rog, in my ear, when you're able to turn this around. And we will -- we will flip it, because I kind of want to listen to what he said once again to make sure we -- we -- we understood him right.

Brooke Baldwin joining me now.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Mm-hmm.

SANCHEZ: Brooke, where does this matter stand?

BALDWIN: So, presumably -- and we did miss the top half of it, but, still, no charges have been filed. And I want to emphasize that -- so, Ben Roethlisberger not facing any charges. I know Milledgeville police are really stopping short of calling him a suspect.

But let me just paint a picture for you, so --

(CROSSTALK)

SANCHEZ: Yes. Yes.

BALDWIN: -- we know --

(CROSSTALK)

SANCHEZ: Take us back to -- what do we know -- what do we -- what is she saying happened and he's saying didn't happen?

BALDWIN: Here is the one page -- this is all I got. OK?

So, Milledgeville police, you just heard them, they're very tight- lipped over this thing. We do not know. I wish I knew exactly know she was alleged, beyond simply sexual assault. We don't know what specifically she's alleging. We don't know specifically where this happened, presumably in the capital city, this nightclub in Milledgeville, which, by the way, is a college town just outside of Greensboro, Georgia, where Ben Roethlisberger has this summer home. So, just to give you a little lay of the land here, here's Atlanta. Eighty-five miles southeast of Atlanta is Greensboro. That's where he has his summer home. And then about 30 miles from there is Milledgeville, and that is where this all happened, again, Friday morning.

We don't know details. That's what we're waiting on. And we were hoping to hear a little bit more from -- from police just now.

SANCHEZ: Yes. And we should probably add, by the way, that there's a big town next to Milledgeville, Macon, Georgia. Macon, Georgia is not a small town.

BALDWIN: Mm-hmm.

SANCHEZ: It -- you know, it's not like they're in the middle of nowhere out there.

BALDWIN: Mm-hmm.

SANCHEZ: By the way, we have got -- we have got --

BALDWIN: Oh, we do.

SANCHEZ: Let me -- let me just hold you for just a moment.

BALDWIN: OK.

SANCHEZ: Roger, go ahead and play the beginning of that again of the police and the DA sound.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BLUE: We have been in touch with Ben Roethlisberger's attorney, Mr. Ed Garland. They are cooperating with us in this investigation.

As a matter of fact, this morning, we were talking to Mr. Ed Garland. And he's in the process of making arrangements for us to talk with Mr. Roethlisberger and all the individuals that were with him in the party on the night of the incident.

We anticipate that these interviews would be in the next two to three days. At this time, that will end my prepared statement.

I will take two or three questions.

QUESTION: What does that mean, that they're cooperating?

BLUE: They are helping in the investigation.

QUESTION: DNA tests or anything like that?

BLUE: Not at this time.

QUESTION: Will you -- will you ask for those?

BLUE: Pardon me?

QUESTION: Will you ask for those, for DNA samples for Mr. Roethlisberger?

BLUE: Yes, at some point.

QUESTION: What why the victim taken to the hospital? What was her condition? And -- and did you gain any evidence at the hospital?

BLUE: We're not getting into specific details at this time. We're still into the investigative process of this investigation.

(CROSSTALK)

QUESTION: Chief, could you possibly verify --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: All right. So, that gives us a pretty good sense of what we were seeing from him.

You know, we -- we were expecting that they would come out and make a statement and say that the investigation will continue.

Look, let's look at the scenarios here. A, there are no charges. There's nothing to validify (sic) -- or validate what the woman said, that would be B. And, C would be, we're going to charge this guy. It looks like they took the middle ground and say, the investigation is going to continue.

BALDWIN: Right.

SANCHEZ: And we're going to do a series of interviews.

BALDWIN: Keep in mind two points I want to make.

Point number one, we just heard the Milledgeville police chief mention Ed Garland. That's the heavy-hitting Atlanta defense attorney who represented Baltimore Ravens linebacker -- you remember Ray Lewis?

SANCHEZ: Of course.

BALDWIN: That was, what, a couple years ago, when he was accused -- that was 2000 -- accused of double murder in Atlanta.

So, you have Ed Garland, who, by the way, has said that the facts show there was no criminal activity. And he, of course, is saying no sexual assault occurred. That's Ed Garland.

Point number two I want to make is the fact that this is sex accusation number two for Ben Roethlisberger in the last year. It was 2008 at Lake Tahoe where, allegedly, he was involved in this sex assault, but this woman didn't come forward until 2009. And Roethlisberger came out last July and vehemently said he denied this charge.

Want to take you to that sound bite.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BEN ROETHLISBERGER, PITTSBURGH STEELERS QUARTERBACK: I did not sexually assault Andrea McNulty. Saturday was the first that I learned of her accusations.

Her false and vicious allegations are an attack on my family and on me. I would never, ever force myself on a woman.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: All right, let's do this. I want to bring in Lisa Bloom now.

She's obviously a competent attorney who's followed this story and other celebrity cases in the past.

Given what you heard from the DA and the police officer, how do you now view this case, as opposed -- or in any different way than you were viewing it before they spoke?

LISA BLOOM, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, as you say, Rick, there's enough to investigate, but it doesn't sound like they have probable cause to arrest yet.

My question is, if this incident happened last Friday night, it's now Monday, why it's taken them three days to get on with witness interviews. This is an incident that allegedly happened in a nightclub. And there were a number of people around. Why weren't all of these people interviewed immediately?

Sexual assault is a serious accusation. It's a major felony. It's something that should require police to immediately get out there and interview all of the witnesses. Now, I don't know whether there were any witnesses to the alleged sexual assault --

SANCHEZ: Yes.

BLOOM: -- if, supposedly, these two were in a private room, but there were a lot of witnesses to the meeting between these two --

SANCHEZ: How important --

BLOOM: -- and to the course of conduct between these two.

SANCHEZ: How --

(CROSSTALK)

BLOOM: Why don't we know more about that three days later?

BALDWIN: Good point.

SANCHEZ: How important is it, Lisa, that it -- unlike the Nevada case that Brooke was just taking us through -- BALDWIN: Mm-hmm.

SANCHEZ: -- in this case, the woman reported it immediately. She was sent to the hospital. She was treated and then released, and the police were on the scene at 2:30 in the morning, apparently just moments -- or minutes after this situation had developed.

BLOOM: It's --

SANCHEZ: What -- what -- how important is that?

BLOOM: It's absolutely critical.

I have represented many women who are rape victims and many children who are child sexual abuse victims. And I cannot tell people enough how critical it is to report it immediately, to go to the hospital, to get treatment, to get the rape kid done, because, frankly, if you don't do it, the defense just has another weapon in their arsenal to use against you, as in the Nevada case, where that woman didn't come forward for a year. She never went to the police.

(CROSSTALK)

BLOOM: And whether that incident happened or not, she's going to have major credibility problems going forward going to trial.

(CROSSTALK)

BLOOM: Now, a lot of women are very uncomfortable calling the police. They're in shock if they're assaulted.

Nevertheless, it's the most important thing a woman can do. Don't shower. Don't clean up. Keep the same clothes that you had on and go immediately to the police and go to the hospital. Now, this woman, allegedly, who says that she was sexually assaulted -- and we don't know if she did or not -- but we know that she went to the police and she went to the hospital. And that will help her.

SANCHEZ: Now, the -- the other side, to give, in this case, the accused the benefit of the doubt. He is a superstar quarterback. He's been in this kind of trouble as far as -- just as accusations go. He's never been found guilty of anything in the past. Just signed a 100-plus-million-dollar contract.

There are those who are watching us now who will say, a guy like this makes himself a big target by putting himself in a environment, going to a nightclub like that, and there are people out there who will falsely accuse him of things.

BLOOM: Absolutely. And he is presumed innocent, as we Americans all are.

And she's going to have to prove her case, if indeed she wants to go forward with a criminal case or with a civil case. And there has to be some hard evidence to convict him in a criminal trial. I mean, look, it could be a he said/she said, and juries can convict based solely on the testimony of a woman against a man.

That's possible, but most juries want some kind of hard evidence. They're going to want some DNA, some hair, some fiber samples, ripped clothing, things of that nature.

SANCHEZ: Hmm. And --

BLOOM: So, we're going to have go forward and see if that happens.

But, as we have emphasized throughout this story, he has not been charged with any crime --

SANCHEZ: Correct.

BLOOM: -- and he may never be charged with any crime. And he certainly is presumed innocent at this time.

SANCHEZ: And we -- and we can't -- yes, and we can't state that enough, by the way.

Unfortunately, because he is a public person, and the Supreme Court has had enough rulings which would judge him as such, he will get the wrath of all the media coverage and all the questions that people will ask, and, under our system, are allowed to ask, because he has, to a certain extent -- I will actually quote the case here -- thrust himself into the vortex of a controversial situation.

BLOOM: Well, that's right. And keep in mind these are now two women over the course of a year who have accused him of the same thing, which is sexual assault. These two women are in different states. Presumably, they don't know each other. They are strangers to one another. So, I think, in some people's minds, that may heighten the credibility of both of them.

SANCHEZ: Lisa Bloom, good stuff as usual. Brooke Baldwin, thanks so much.

BLOOM: Thank you.

SANCHEZ: Interesting that we were able to bring that story just as it was happening.

Look, all we can do, folks, is follow it for you. There's two sides to this story. And, as both sides come out, we will share both with you.

Meanwhile, this. Take a look at this video, millions of Iraqis voting on Sunday, despite dozens of attacks that have killed nearly 40 people. U.S. officials are say most of the country is peaceful, but there are real questions about this. I mean, if we can create a democracy in Iraq, just as Paul Wolfowitz once suggested that we should, will it spread throughout the Middle East? That's what I'm going to ask from of our guests on this story.

And, then, also, the pushback from the Republican Party. Look who is there. Craig Crawford, we welcome to our newscast. Guess who's on THE LIST, folks? Craig Crawford, by golly, is on the list. And he's going to take us through some of these political stories as well.

Stay right there. We will be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: Did you hear that Goldman Sachs is telling investors out there, you want a good stock tip? You know what's a good stock tip? Buy insurance companies, health insurance companies. You know why? You know why?

Here, let me read it to you. Because insurance rates are going to go up sharply, and the competition for insurance companies are way down.

I mean, is this playing into President Obama's hand or what? And why has it taken this president so long to capture that message, rather than going around telling everybody, boy, we all really have got to help these people out there who don't have insurance and sacrifice as much we can?

Craig Crawford is joining us now. He's with CQPolitics.com, as well as a million other things.

And I'm -- I'm glad you're here, Craig. It's an interesting day in the political world.

What do you make of this thing being handed to the president? By the way, do you -- do you think -- let me just go out on a limb and ask you this. Is it possible that the president has some connections at Goldman and said, hey, I need you guys to throw me a bone?

(LAUGHTER)

SANCHEZ: Because it certainly looks like that's what's happening here.

CRAIG CRAWFORD, COLUMNIST, CQPOLITICS.COM: Well, there are a few lines connecting his administration and those folks here and there at the Treasury Department and elsewhere.

(LAUGHTER)

CRAWFORD: So, they have certainly done him a favor with this announcement. And it's been a party line for him for a while now to use insurance companies.

I -- I think it's the way to sell health reform. I don't know how accurate it might be. It might be playing to the crowd a bit much, like Obama complains about the other side doing. But, at the same time, it certainly resonates.

SANCHEZ: But doesn't it also resonate this message, that this administration has not been as good perhaps as they could have been in selling this to all Americans on the basis that, hey, I don't care whether you have insurance or not, there's a chance they're going to jack up your premium, so maybe you ought to look at what we're proposing as well, instead of what they were doing at the outset of this, Craig, which was basically to go out there and say to everybody, we have all got to pool our moneys together, because there's all these 47 million people out there who none of you seem to know who don't have insurance?

CRAWFORD: Well, what really limited the president for so long is, he didn't have a plan. He tossed -- he just tossed it up to Capitol Hill and said, you guys work something out.

And, for the longest time, we didn't know what side he was taking on one issue after another. And we're only a week in, really, to really seeing a final package of what he wants. And, so, now he's got something to get out there and support. So, maybe they can reboot.

They lost a year, I agree, but maybe now they can reboot their message and get out there with an actual plan and start talking about some of the specifics. The insurance regulations and reforms in this package ought to be popular with a lot of Americans, especially the business of saying that preexisting illnesses cannot be used to -- to deny coverage to people, and several other changes.

Those are the kinds of issues, and this insurance news this week is just playing right into that.

SANCHEZ: Well, the question is, do they have the votes? And -- and there's one guy out there. His name is Eric Massa.

(LAUGHTER)

SANCHEZ: Have you folks heard of the controversy surrounding Eric Massa?

Let me just read you a little piece of this. He's admitting that, while he was at a wedding on some New Year's Eve -- I know -- it's a little weird, so let me be careful with the language I use here.

(LAUGHTER)

SANCHEZ: He says: "I grabbed a male staff member sitting next to me and I said, what I really ought to be doing is 'blank you.' And then I tousled the guy's hair and I left. Was that inappropriate of me? Absolutely."

I know. This gets a little weird. But, hey, politics gets weird sometimes. But here is what is even more weird. This guy is not giving the Dems the vote that they want on health care, and now he's coming forward saying: The only reason they're forcing me out is because I'm a victim of the power play by Democratic leaders who want me to vote, because I'm a no vote on health care reform. Mine is now the deciding vote on the health care bill, and this is why they're pressuring me out, based on this controversy.

This is strange, folks.

Let Craig stand by. We're going to take a break. And, when we come back, we're going to figure this whole Eric Massa -- Democrat Eric Massa thing out for our viewers it stands today, as opposed to where it stood Friday.

This is THE LIST. Craig Crawford just made THE LIST. And we're coming right back. We're scrolling on, folks.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: Number three on our political list today is the story of Representative Eric Massa.

Columnist Craig Crawford with CQPolitics.com is back with us.

Craig, were you embarrassed when I was reading that story about Mr --

(LAUGHTER)

(CROSSTALK)

SANCHEZ: You have been around Washington too long to be embarrassed, I will bet.

CRAWFORD: Well, and I have -- I have had my share of embarrassing wedding scenes, I suppose, but nothing quite like that.

(LAUGHTER)

CRAWFORD: I -- I don't buy the argument that they -- they want him out just because they don't want his no-vote on health care. I think they can get their votes for health care without them.

I mean, the problem Pelosi has is, this comes on the heels of the Charlie Rangel revelations, and -- and having to force him to step down from his chairmanship.

And Pelosi came in promising the most honest and ethical Congress in history, so she has to take action on these kinds of things.

SANCHEZ: Is this -- is this an -- this is an ethics violation, right? How do these ethics violations -- you've -- you've -- I mean, you have written about these folks for so many years now. Explain to us how these ethics violations come to fruition and who handles them and how often they actually are acted on.

CRAWFORD: No, there are -- there are Ethics Committees in the House, and they investigate each other. That's part of the problem with --

(LAUGHTER)

CRAWFORD: -- with --

SANCHEZ: Yes.

CRAWFORD: -- members of Congress. That -- that makes it a -- usually a lot slower. The Rangel investigation has been going on for probably a year-and-a-half, I guess.

And this one was just going to get started, but the House committee have staff, and they have their own probes, but, essentially, the speaker controls it. So, you know, the House essentially -- and the Senate, too, really investigates their own. There's not independent investigations.

SANCHEZ: You know, it's interesting, because part of the theme today is Democrats eating their own, as well as Republicans --

CRAWFORD: Yes.

SANCHEZ: -- eating their own. I mean, there's all kinds of stories, interestingly enough, today that seem to reflect that.

And -- and one of the stories that caught my eye is, guys like Kenneth Starr and other lawyers, Republican lawyers, loyal Bushies, who are coming out and attacking Lynne Cheney because Lynne Cheney has formed this organization. It's called Keep -- pardon me -- I misspoke.

Liz Cheney has --

CRAWFORD: Liz, yes.

SANCHEZ: -- has formed this organization called Keep America Safe, where she's questioning these folks' values who have represented alleged or suspected terrorists, and she's actually gone as far as calling them the al Qaeda seven.

And that's provoking a backlash from Republicans. Haven't seen this kind of thing before. How will this play out for Cheney, who, by the way, is starting to look like a real political player out there?

CRAWFORD: Yes, and I think she's an extension of her father on this particular topic, even.

You know, the interesting thing about the Cheneys -- and going back to Dick Cheney just a bit -- if you remember, a year ago, when Obama was riding high in the polls --

SANCHEZ: Uh-huh.

CRAWFORD: -- and Republicans were afraid to attack Obama personally by name, it was Dick Cheney who kind of broke the ice, as almost the canary in the -- in the coal mine, who came out and started accusing the president of making us less safe.

And that has been a pattern with the Cheneys all along sort of out there on the cutting edge, but now, as you say, some Republicans are backing off.

SANCHEZ: But there's another one, by the way. Before I let you go, take a look at this.

Hey, Rog in the control room, do you have the ACLU thing, the morph of Obama? President Obama morphing into President Bush -- this was in "The New York Times."

By golly, Craig, I had this sitting on my desk, and I wanted to bring this out here and show it to you.

CRAWFORD: I know --

(CROSSTALK)

SANCHEZ: I think there are some folks who have -- who -- I think we have seen it, by the way.

What they did is, they take Obama's face, and then they morph him, four times over, and he becomes Bush. And what they're doling is, they're railing on him for his apparent flip-flop on criminal prosecutions vs. military tribunals.

CRAWFORD: Well, that is one area where this Cheney -- the backlash again this Cheney attack on the al Qaeda -- al Qaeda seven, so -- so- called, might actually give him some backbone not to waver on making that change, because it was the Cheney, you know, momentum that was pushing him in that direction, making such an issue of it.

And now that so many Republicans are upset with the Cheney -- with at least the Cheney daughter going so far, you know, maybe that will be Obama --

(LAUGHTER)

SANCHEZ: Yes.

CRAWFORD: -- a little more backbone on this issue.

SANCHEZ: Yes, but -- but the ACLU, I mean, they're lefties. I mean, these guys --

CRAWFORD: Yes.

SANCHEZ: Well, I know -- they represented -- they represented and helped Rush Limbaugh once, so they're honorable about what they believe, but, for the most part, they're -- they're more lefty than righties, right?

CRAWFORD: Oh, yes.

And, you know, what's happening to Obama politically, and what he's got to fix is, I always knew he couldn't keep both liberals and independents, like he did in the campaign, as a governor -- I mean, as -- governing as a president. I knew that he couldn't keep both, that, ultimately, he would have to settle on one.

But, for right now, he's actually not kept either --

(LAUGHTER)

CRAWFORD: -- liberals or independents in -- in a lot of the polling we're seeing. And he's -- he's got to figure out a way to get that back.

SANCHEZ: I love talking politics with you, man. Thanks so much, Craig Crawford.

(LAUGHTER)

SANCHEZ: I appreciate it. And thanks for making THE LIST.

CRAWFORD: And you're my Twitter pal, too. You introduced me to Twitter. I'm addicted now.

SANCHEZ: You and about 150,000 other folks out there.

(LAUGHTER)

CRAWFORD: Yes.

(LAUGHTER)

SANCHEZ: Thanks, Craig. Appreciate it. We will hook back up.

CRAWFORD: You bet.

SANCHEZ: All right.

Congressman Eric Massa, this is a story that we have been following for you. He's retiring, well, due to health reasons? Or is it sexual misconduct? That's what Craig and I were just discussing. We have got more news on this that I'm going to be sharing with you in just a little bit.

Also, here's a hint on one of the most intriguing persons of the day. She's one of the most powerful women in business. You know we list the most intriguing. And we have got number two on the list coming up for you.

Stay right there. We will tell you who it is.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: Two big developing stories that we're following for you.

Welcome back, by the way. I'm Rick Sanchez, here in the world headquarters of CNN.

The Ben Roethlisberger story, it's not going to come to an end anytime soon. Apparently police are saying they're going to do a bevy of interviews with him and the 20-year-old woman who is accusing him of sexual assault.

Also, a big story coming to us out of Haiti right now.

In case you haven't heard, the missionaries being held in Haiti, that woman right there that you see right there with that red top, her name is Charisa Coulter. She's been released. So that means there's only one Haitian -- or one Idaho missionary left in Haiti, and that is Laura Silsby. Laura Silsby, interestingly enough, is the woman who is being called the mastermind or the person who planned this attempt to take the children out of Haiti. All of them still face trial, and we will continue to follow that for you.

Meanwhile, we're also following this -- President Obama uses his health care push as a way of getting at some of these health insurers, and he's using a message that was sent out today. We'll continue to talk about that by one of the big Wall Street firms telling investors, you know what? Yes, health insurance companies are a good investment. And, of course, ,the president is using it to his advantage.

Also on THE LIST, Iraqis go to the polls. Is this what Paul Wolfowitz had in mind?

Sixty-two percent of the people have voted in Iraq. Amid everything that's going on there, they're voting. Is it the beginning of a democracy in Iraq, as Wolfowitz said would happen, which would then spread throughout the Middle East, or are we looking at it with rose- colored glasses?

Robert Baer and Michael Hirsh are going to take us through this. Stay right there.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: Welcome back.

We're expecting more updates on the story regarding Ben Roethlisberger, the quarterback for the Pittsburgh Steelers, and his controversy in Milledgeville, Georgia.

But in the meantime, we continue our lists. And one of the most powerful businesswomen on earth wants to tackle politics. Time now for the list of the most intriguing.

A little late on the sound uptake.

She put herself through Stanford doing the books for a hair salon, and then got a job as a secretary. Fast forward. She becomes the first and still only woman CEO of a Fortune 20 company.

She's now throwing her hat into the U.S. Senate race to represent California. Here is her leadership philosophy: "I'm an optimist and believe that people will make the right choices about their lives and their leaders if they know the issues and are equipped with the facts."

Now she wants Senator Barbara Boxer's job, and made it official today. She filed the paperwork. Hewlett-Packard's former CEO and now Republican Senate candidate, Carly Fiorina, one of today's "Most Intriguing Persons of the Day."

I'm going to be telling you in just a little bit what's going on in Iraq. That is not the right video. All right. Let's talk about what's going on in Texas as well. This is a scene that we were following earlier today, and we'll bring you the latest on it in just a little bit.

But meanwhile, let's talk about Iraq, if we possibly can.

The story about Iraq has to do with what Paul Wolfowitz once said -- that if we can democratize Iraq somehow, it will lead to the democratization of other parts of the Middle East. Given the fact that 62 percent of the people in Iraq are now voting in this election, it may be time to ask the question of whether the plan is actually working.

I'm going to have two experts on this who will be answering the question in just a little bit. So stay right there as they continue to count the votes in Iraq.

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: Number four on THE LIST, who did they catch in Pakistan? That's a question, by the way.

First reports was that the propaganda mouthpiece for al Qaeda, Adam Gadahn, American Adam Gadahn, had been caught. Pakistan has since backed off that statement. Now they won't even say if the guy is an American. Or who did they catch to begin with?

But before we do anything else, I want you to watch a little bit of this Gadahn character, because there's sound of him doing an interview. It's interesting that we would be talking about an al Qaeda figure who speaks English like this --

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ADAM GADAHN, AL QAEDA SPOKESMAN: It's time for you to put aside tribal, ethnic and territorial differences and petty worldly disputes not just for now, but forever, and unite to restore the glories of your forefathers and hasten, Allah willing, the defeat of the Zio- crusader enemy and the establishment of the Islamic state.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: Bob Baer is a former CIA operative who is joining me now by phone. I first started interviewing Bob Baer back in, like, 2001, when he first started doing interviews on networks.

And Michael Hirsh, as you know, is the "Newsweek" senior editor.

And both of these fellows are good enough to join us.

Michael, let me begin with you. What do you make of this Adam Gadahn character, first of all, and the story going around that he may have been captured in Pakistan? MICHAEL HIRSH, SR. EDITOR, "NEWSWEEK": Well, that story does seem to have been discounted. What we know of Adam Gadahn, you know, he was born under the name of Adam Pearlstein (ph), converted to Islam in northern California.

A very misguided youth who has fallen into the hands of al Qaeda. It's not clear what level he's at. He's been put out there as a spokesman. It's been thought for some time that he is not allowed near the top leadership of al Qaeda, but nonetheless a very powerful, symbolic force.

SANCHEZ: Hey, Bob, you have been an agent with the CIA and have been in that part of the world. Wouldn't you think that a guy who is American, with American paperwork, you know, that his background would be easy to find?

Why is it so hard to find a guy like this?

BOB BAER, FMR. CIA OPERATIVE: Well, he's either hiding in Karachi. That's where the initial report said he was. Or he's hiding in the tribal areas.

He's holed up like bin Laden is, or Zawahiri, in parts of Pakistan you cannot get to. If he does wander out of the tribal areas, the Pakistanis will pick him up and hand him over, but I think he's a fairly unimportant figure. The kid's obviously crazy, misguided, and is not an important piece of the al Qaeda leadership.

SANCHEZ: Yes, but you know why we are give him the coverage that we do? Because when we think of terrorists, we think of people who could sneak back into the United States and do us harm. And who would it be easier to do that for than a guy who talks like the rest of us and can shave his moustache and his beard and put on a baseball cap, and nobody would even know it's him, right?

BAER: Oh, I agree, that's a sign of the worst to come. You know, the big problem we have now in the United States is Muslim gangs in prisons recruiting people.

They're getting out of the prisons, they're going to Yemen, the tribal areas in Pakistan, and they're absorbing an ideology. The question is, how do you keep track of them when they come back to the United States? And it could one day possibly be a big problem.

SANCHEZ: You know, that's interesting. But there's something else I want to talk to you fellows about. And I think when we come back -- let's sneak a break in.

Michael, I want to ask you about the situation in Iraq, because I think it's fair to say, after all the criticism that has been leveled against Iraq and the strategy there, most of it fair, now we see a situation where I just got off the phone with our bureau there, our correspondents, and they're telling me 62 percent turnout at the polls. That's pretty darn good.

Does that mean that we're starting to see the democratization of Iraq? And obviously the next question, the Paul Wolfowitz domino theory, that that will follow to the rest of the Middle East?

Hold onto your hats, folks, because I want to see what these guys say about that when we come back.

Stay right there. RICK'S LIST scrolls on.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: I called Baghdad a little while ago and I had a briefing with some of our folks who are covering the story over there. And they're telling me, look, 62 percent so far. That's a pretty big turnout, surprising some of the folks over there.

So the question then is to you, Michael Hirsh, are we looking at the beginning of the democratization of Iraq with those kind of numbers?

HIRSH: Well, I mean, that's the hope, although the last time, in December 2005, when they had elections, it was a 76 percent turnout. And the ultimate outcome was a long period of bloodshed, sectarian warfare, after it took them so long to form a government. That's one of the fears now, that they have a very fractious situation.

It took them 150 days last time, or more than that. The hope is it won't take as long this time, and that you're way past that level of sectarian hatred that you were at back then.

The big fear going ahead in the months up through the summer, though, is what will happen when President Obama continues his withdrawal plan to remove all combat troops really by the end of August? And I think that's the single biggest question mark.

SANCHEZ: I had a feeling that you were going to answer my question with a question. And I guess I've been watching even the big dogs over there in Iraq answer that question throughout the day, and they've been noncommittal as well.

So let me ask you something that I'm not noncommittal about. There's this character named Chalabi who we had put a lot of our eggs into his basket at one time. And now I'm hearing, Bob Baer -- you know who Chalabi is.

I'm hearing this guy is heading the country's Justice and Accountability Commission. It's like putting the fox in charge of the hen house. He's also, by the way, a candidate representing the Iraqi National Alliance Party, which is a combination of Shiites.

This doesn't seem to fit for me, nor would it fit for any American who studied him and the situation in Iraq.

Bob, what do you say?

BAER: Well, our commanding officer in Iraq has called him, you know, all but an Iranian agent. And it's true that Chalabi does go to Tehran and consults with that government there about these elections. A lot of the people he eliminated from the election lists were Sunnis, his old enemies, and allies close to the United States. SANCHEZ: So why are we letting this happen?

BAER: You know, we should have never let the guy in the country. It's the neocons. He is a con himself, and they bought off on this, and they brought him back. He was never our friend.

SANCHEZ: Wow.

Bob Baer, my thanks to you, as well as you, Michael Hirsh, for an interesting segment and a good discussion.

I appreciate it. Come on back.

Next on THE LIST, are Dems forcing Congressman Eric Massa out, or is he really retiring for other reasons? And some of those reasons get embarrassing even to talk about on TV.

We're going to break that down for you.

Also, we're following up on the Ben Roethlisberger situation. I know many of you are coming home now from work and are interested in it. There has been a development in the story. We're going to be sharing that with you, as well as a development in the story out of Haiti.

And this is a day when people come into our studio because they want to be a part of our national conversation. So there's some of the folks there.

Wave, folks. Say hello.

With that wave, we go to break. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: We've been following this story about Congressman Eric Massa. He's a Democrat. He's resigning. It's supposed to take effect at the top of the hour after an ethics investigation into whether he allegedly harassed a male staffer at a wedding party. The whole thing is kind of embarrassing.

Wolf Blitzer is joining us now to talk about this because, you know -- this and other stories.

But what's interesting is this guy is coming out, Wolf, and he's saying, my own party is out to get me. They're mad because I'm giving a "no" vote to health care, and they're the ones who are coming up with what he calls a story to try to get me to resign.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, but he didn't have to resign. The Ethics Committee was looking into this allegation.

There's nothing confirmed, nothing proven. No charges were filed, no admonishment or anything. He could have stayed in.

Originally, he said he was only going to not seek reelection in November. He could have fulfilled the rest of his term. He made that decision under the heat, if you will, of the moment, the pressure to go ahead and step down. But that was his call. He could have stayed in.

SANCHEZ: Yes, but wouldn't it be an advantage for the Dems, then, if they can get him out of there and then put somebody else as -- what they usually do in these cases, where they nominate someone to fill in the void and they get someone who was going to vote for health care?

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: They probably couldn't do that. They couldn't get somebody to come in, in the interim.

But it's certainly -- from those who support health care reform, the House of Representatives, the Democrats, if he retires, if he just leaves right now, it brings down the key number to 216, as opposed to 217. Already -- if it's full, 435 members of the House, you need 218 affirmative votes. Then it was 217.

If he leaves, which he is, then it will be 216. That's one less vote the Democrats need, which is obviously going to be important if every vote counts.

SANCHEZ: Yes, that's interesting. The question is -- and obviously, just so I don't put you on the spot, that doesn't necessarily mean it's a quid pro quo. That just means --

BLITZER: No, no, no. That doesn't mean anything. It just means that he could have stayed in. It was his decision to resign and to leave office, and to have a vacant seat from that district in New York State.

SANCHEZ: Oh my God. I forgot to ask you -- you were a superstar on "SNL." Did you see the guy doing Wolf Blitzer this weekend?

BLITZER: I certainly did. Not the first time he's done me.

SANCHEZ: Well, I know, but it's pretty cool, man, to be on. And it was a long set. And at the end, you even threw to me, right?

BLITZER: I saw that. You got the clip?

SANCHEZ: I got the what?

BLITZER: You got the clip?

SANCHEZ: OK. We don't, as a matter of fact.

BLITZER: Oh. You're teasing the viewers.

You know what? Maybe we'll put it in "THE SITUATION ROOM."

SANCHEZ: Well, you should.

BLITZER: Yes.

SANCHEZ: It's the least you can do.

BLITZER: It was very funny.

SANCHEZ: And your kids love for you it. Right?

BLITZER: Do I really mumble like that when I --

SANCHEZ: No. Wolf, you're fine.

BLITZER: I don't saying, "Here's Gloria (mumbling)."

SANCHEZ: No. You don't. It was a horrible impression.

BLITZER: No, it wasn't horrible. It was very funny.

SANCHEZ: You're a good sport. That's why I love you like a brother.

By the way, speaking of the things they were talking about, the health care bit in the end, is this administration going to be able to get this thing done the way they're looking at it right now, or is this -- hold on, Wolf. Now the producers are all excited. They're saying they have the clip.

See, you tease me -- let's watch Wolf Blitzer on "SNL." Here it is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "SATURDAY NIGHT LIVE")

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We go now live to another part of the studio where Senior Political Analyst Gloria Borger will read a stranger's e-mail.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you, Wolf.

This just in. Mike Dagastino (ph) from UC Davis writes --

(END VIDEO CLIP, "SATURDAY NIGHT LIVE")

SANCHEZ: Look at our folks.

Folks, was that -- raise your hand if you think that was a bad impression.

I got some folks in the studio.

What do you guys think? Come on, raise your hands.

You didn't like it, right?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, that was not an exact imitation.

SANCHEZ: It's not an exact -- thank you. Thank you, ma'am. We're with you. Wolf Blitzer fans around here.

BLITZER: Did you see the actor who plays Jack Cafferty?

SANCHEZ: Oh, yes.

BLITZER: Yes. That was good.

SANCHEZ: He's good. He's good. He nailed Jack.

BLITZER: Yes.

SANCHEZ: All right, Wolf. We'll look forward to seeing you, as usual, in "THE SITUATION ROOM."

BLITZER: Thank you.

SANCHEZ: Take care. Bye-bye.

We'll be right back with more on the Ben Roethlisberger story, a story that everybody seems to be interested in and talking about, although there was movement in the story, but not definitive movement.

I'll explain that to you. Stay right there.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: Welcome back. I'm Rick Sanchez.

What do you all think of this Ben Roethlisberger development? Have you guys been following this situation? Another situation involving this professional quarterback with the Pittsburgh Steelers.

Let me just catch you up on what we know right now.

Police came out about 40 minutes ago, and no, they did not say that they are charging Ben Roethlisberger. He is, as you know, the Super Bowl quarterback for the Pittsburgh Steelers, signed a contract for over $100 million.

A 20-year-old woman is accusing him of sexual assault. Police did not announce that they will be filing charges.

What they did announce is that they are going to be investigating and that they expect to do eight interviews with both him and her over the next several days. And then they'll come to some kind of determination to whether or not charges will be filed against "Big Ben."

We're going to be all over this story. Obviously, when there's developments, we'll let you know.

In the meantime, that's it for us. Thanks so much for being with us.

This is RICK'S LIST.

Now "THE SITUATION ROOM" with Wolf Blitzer.