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Rick's List
D.C. Protesters Demand Health Care Reform; Runaway Prius?
Aired March 09, 2010 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
RICK SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): Here is what is making THE LIST.
Jobs, jobs, jobs in France, like in America, but look at the pushback.
Too many drinks, an inappropriate come-on to a staffer, and a resignation.
ERIC MASSA (D), FORMER REPRESENTATIVE, NEW YORK: Do you know how awkward it is to have a political argument with a naked man?
SANCHEZ: What is this congressman's real story? Because this is starting to not add up.
He reached a barely controllable 94 miles an hour.
JIM SIKES, PRIUS DRIVER: My thought was going over the side of the hill.
SANCHEZ: He says he could not stop his Prius. I'm bringing in a Ph.D. on this one.
A woman who accuses quarterback Ben Roethlisberger of sexual assault reportedly now wants to quit school. And police are saying there is a videotape.
This state senator is a passionate anti-gay rights crusader. Guess what?
ROY ASHBURN (R), CALIFORNIA STATE SENATOR: I am gay.
SANCHEZ: What?
ASHBURN: I am gay. Those are the words that have been so difficult for me.
SANCHEZ: His conflict part of the national conversation.
The lists you need to know about. Who's today's most intriguing? Who's making news on Twitter? It's why I keep a list, pioneering tomorrow's cutting-edge news right now.
(END VIDEOTAPE) SANCHEZ: Hey. Hello, again, everybody. I'm Rick Sanchez.
Some of you guys hate this about me and some of you guys like this about me, but I always real honest with you and real frank and for the most part, I don't use a teleprompter or read the news to you. But I do react to things as they happen.
And here is what we are reacting to now. It is almost frustrating for us, I'll be honest with you, because it's like we had this whole newscast prepared for you all day long and then all of a sudden at the last minute, everything seemed to change, because we had all these stories that were coming in.
So, I want to get you through some of those before we do anything else.
First of all, what is going on with this former CBS News producer Joe Halderman. Did you see how this thing is playing out? Accused of blackmailing David Letterman. If you haven't heard, he's pled guilty, stood before a judge and said, look, I am ready to cop to this thing, second-degree attempted grand larceny. He's getting six months in jail, but it's kind of delayed when he gets to start it.
He's getting five years' probation. I want you to be able to listen to what he has to say in his own words and watch his body language, watch his demeanor, watch what his lawyer says about him. I'm going to let you do that in just a little bit.
But what I think is probably one of the most fascinating stories of the day is this. And, Rog, if you got it, go ahead. Hit this for our viewers. Let them take a look at some of this video. Go ahead. Hit it.
You remember the tea parties, right? That was essentially a protest that in many ways was against health care reform. And for the most part, it was from the right.
Well, suddenly, out of nowhere, we get this scene outside the Ritz-Carlton Hotel at DuPont Circle. Here are protesters from a group Health Care for America. They are from the left for the most part. And you know what? I did a little digging, and I can show you what I mean by that, because I have got what is from their own Web site, which pretty much shows that.
But go ahead and put the pictures back up of the protest, if you would, Rog. Let's go through this. I want to talk a little bit about what is going on with this protest. Here is what they say they are doing. They are saying that they are protesting rising health insurance rates, that they're pushing Congress to pass health care reform.
Let me see what else they have got on here as I was looking through what they say is their modus operandi. Denials of health care claims. They're upset -- they're fed up -- quote -- "fed up' with skyrocketing premiums and insurance companies that are spending tens of millions of dollars to kill or manipulate reform. The organization is called Health Care for America Now, HCAN. Why were they protesting where they were? Well, because that is also where health insurance lobbyists were having their own gathering, their annual policy conference inside that hotel, the Ritz.
That lobbying group is America's Health Insurance Plans, by the way. Listen to this, because there is a sense that this thing -- and I think it is always fair to comment on this as a journalist. To a certain extent, they were orchestrated. I mean, they knew what they were doing. They wanted to make a lot of attention, to get a lot of attention, like a lot of these protests do. They wanted to make a splash and even talked -- I listened to them talking.
It almost sounded like many of them want to be arrested, like they had chosen which among them would go ahead and be arrested so they can be taken away and the cameras would be there, et cetera, et cetera.
Watch this little piece of sound that we chose. Now, what is interesting about this is -- and you maybe not have been able to hear it, but we heard one of the protesters say to another one or to a reporter, well, who was arrested? And they say, oh, no, no, no, they only arrested -- we only wanted to make sure certain people were arrested, and then she actually listed a number. We expected that 10 people were going to be arrested and we knew who they were, which kind of gives you a sense that there is some -- that there is some orchestration going on here.
All right. Now, does this play into the White House's hand? Why do I say this? Why do I ask that question? Very simple. The president was yesterday at a rally where he said we need the American people to get behind this thing. That is not to say that the White House had anything to do with the planning of this, but just listen, if you would, to what the president's words were yesterday.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We need you to make your voices heard all the way in Washington, D.C.
OBAMA: They...
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
OBAMA: They need to -- they need to hear your voices because right now the Washington echo chamber is in full throttle.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: All right. Let's do this.
The first reporter at the scene was our own Jim Acosta. He was reporting from the scene as it happened, and he's picking up the story for us now to let us know.
And I guess the most important part of this, I had our booker work on this and reach out, Jim, to one of these folks, and we are going to get them on. One of the organizers, one of the sponsors of this thing is going to come and talk to us. But tell our views what do you know about these folks? Who are they? What were they doing there? Why today? Take us through it.
JIM ACOSTA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Rick, this was, as you mentioned, a very orchestrated protest that was going on down in -- just outside of Georgetown here in Washington.
The health insurance industry was holding a policy conference, like you said, at the Ritz-Carlton, and you had a handful of pro- health care reform groups, Health Care for America Now, also some labor organizations, involved, and essentially what they wanted to do was to have their voices heard right in the belly of the beast, as it were, right there at the lion's den, taking their message to a conference of health care industry executives.
And essentially what happened at this protest, I was struck by it, Rick. At one point, one of the organizers tried to deputize -- I think it was a ceremonial deputizing -- but he tried to deputize everybody there to make a citizen's arrest, as they put it, for several executives from the health care industry, and the crimes that were being talked about, the charges that were being talked about were involuntary manslaughter for 45,000 Americans.
That is the number that pro-health care reform advocates throw out there, saying that every year 45,000 people who don't have health insurance lose their lives. That's according to a recent Harvard study. And then after that deputizing occurred, all of those protesters were starting to make a move for the entrance to that hotel.
And the D.C. Police Department, they did a fine job there. They had a barricade set up, and kept those folks back. Now, as to the arrests that occurred, you're right. This was certainly a ceremonial display. These were arrests that occurred only briefly, because those folks were almost immediately released after they were arrested, but they wanted to make a point and make it at a very critical time in this health care debate.
As you mentioned, Rick, this is getting down to the wire. The president, the White House has set a deadline for March 18 as to when they would like to see all of this wrapped up, perhaps by the end of the month. And so, you are seeing this side of the movement, the health care reform advocacy movement, trying to pull out all the stops, including what was an attempted citizen's arrest, Rick.
SANCHEZ: Look, obviously, they wanted to make a splash. Obviously, they were trying to get a lot of attention. You can't fault them for that. That is what protests are all about. They are hoping the cameras show up, et cetera, et cetera.
Is there any reason to believe that these folks -- I know who they are tied to, because I looked them up. Here, you want to know, I will share it with you, the 9to5 National Association of Working Women, the AFL-CIO, the Alliance for Retired Americans, American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Federation of Teachers.
These are all unions, folks. But look down here. MoveOn.org, which is obviously an organization that participates in activists that are progressives, if not left-leaning, Rock the Vote, Progress Now, League of Young Voters, YMCA.
So it is a real hodgepodge of organizations, most of them from the left. Is there any reason to believe that this was orchestrated politically?
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: In other words, that this has some kind of tie-in to either the Democratic Party, the White House, any specific congressmen or senators?
ACOSTA: I am not sure if there was coordination going on between these groups and the White House.
Certainly, I would imagine that some of this is going on with folks within the Democratic Party. These are folks who would like to see all of this happen. But you're seeing a picture right there of somebody who is out there who has been a thorn in the side of the president from time to time. Howard Dean was out there, and he had this to say about the votes that are coming up in Congress on health care reform, Rick.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HOWARD DEAN, FORMER DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL COMMITTEE CHAIRMAN: There are going to be 535 people that vote on this bill, and we're going to check every single one of them, and, in November, we are going to hold them accountable. I don't care if they are Republicans or Democrat. I want to know, did you stand with the insurance companies or did you stand with the American people?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ACOSTA: So, that is a very popular movement inside the movement for health care reform, Rick, and somebody who is not always a friend of the White House. He has been very critical of this White House in terms of the deals that were struck early on in the process with the insurance industry, with the big pharmaceutical industry in terms of crafting this health care legislation.
But I think these reform groups, these pro-reform groups, don't want to see any efforts for health care reform to die altogether. They would like to see at least half-a-loaf if they can't get the full loaf, Rick.
SANCHEZ: But just to be clear, by the way, the fact that we saw Howard Dean there, he is the former chairman of the Democratic Party.
ACOSTA: Exactly.
SANCHEZ: He has no -- or does he? Let me ask you. You follow this as closely as anybody else. We know he is liberal. We know that he is -- would consider himself a progressive. He's been behind all these movements. He is not at this point tied to any part or any politician or any specific office, right?
ACOSTA: No. That is right.
And many of the groups out there would be sharply critical of the White House, Rick, because there is no public option in the Senate bill.
SANCHEZ: Yes, they want more.
ACOSTA: They want more.
SANCHEZ: Yes.
ACOSTA: And I would imagine that some of the folks out there, if not many of them, would like to see a single-payer system. That is also not happening.
But I think that there is a realization that's settling in on the left that if they don't get anything this time around, they may have to wait another generation before they try again.
SANCHEZ: Well, what we want to do is continue to follow this. We will stay on top of this story, and check back in. We're going to talk to some of the folks who were out there today, and, you know, in many ways treat this the same way we treated some of the Tea Party manifestations.
Folks get together. We want to let you know who they are, what their cause is, who is behind it all. So, we will continue to take you through this.
And, Jim, thanks so much.
ACOSTA: You bet.
SANCHEZ: We appreciate you hustling out there to getting that story as it is happening.
ACOSTA: You got it.
SANCHEZ: Meanwhile, we also want to tell you about this. The man who attempted to blackmail David Letterman, did you hear that he has come forward? There he is walking to the microphones. You will see what happens when he gets to the microphones.
The story that is as fascinating as anything that we have been looking into lately is this fellow, Congressman Massa. Why isn't this whole story adding up? If you really think about what he is talking about and what he is accused of doing, which is making a mistake, why is he quitting? What are the Dems really up to in this case?
Look, lots of questions that we need to ask about who this guy really is. And this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SIKES: My thought was going over the side of the hill.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Is that guy telling it straight? He says, I'm driving my car and all of a sudden, it is going 94 miles an hour and I can't control it. True dat? I'm going to check with a Ph.D.
Stay right there. We will be back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Well, we have got some breaking news, and, by the way, two bits of breaking news.
You know moments ago I told you as we were going to break that there is just something fishy about this whole Massa story, this congressman who allegedly just made a joke at a wedding reception about somebody, and then he is saying he was forced out of the party? He is going to be on "LARRY KING" tonight. We just got new information about Massa that may shock you -- and then again, maybe not.
But there is another breaking story that we are following for you right now.
Jeanne Meserve is standing by.
Apparently, there has been an important arrest having to do with homeland security affecting possibly all of us. Let's go to Jeanne and find out what is going on.
Jeanne, what you got?
JEANNE MESERVE, CNN HOMELAND SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Rick, an American woman now indicted for providing material support to terrorism and conspiracy to kill in a foreign country, this indictment just being unsealed today.
It names Colleen R. LaRose, AKA Fatima LaRose, AKA JihadJane. It says that she is an American citizen from Pennsylvania born in 1963, that she and five unindicted co-conspirators located in South Asia, Eastern Europe, Western Europe, and the United States, recruited men women to wage violent jihad, women on the Internet who had passports and the ability to travel to and around Europe in support of violent jihad.
It says according to the indictment that LaRose received a direct order to kill a citizen and resident of Sweden and to do so in a way that would frighten the whole nonbeliever world. The indictment charges that LaRose agreed to carry out her murder assignment and that she and her co-conspirators discussed that her appearance and American citizenship would help her blend in while carrying out her plans.
According to this indictment, LaRose traveled to Europe and tracked the intended target online in an effort to complete her task. Now, this, of course, is something American and other officials have been worried about for some time, that women would be used, that Americans would be used. This blends those two, those two worries.
One official is quoted here in this press release from the Department of Justice as saying this case demonstrates that terrorists are looking for Americans to join them in their cause and it shatters any lingering thought that we can spot a terrorist based on their appearance.
This, of course, just fresh news that's coming in, Rick. Excuse me for reading, because we are just getting familiar with this case -- back to you.
SANCHEZ: Oh, no, I appreciate it, Jeanne. And if you get anything else on this, let us know and we will check back in with you. We always want to report these types of stories that could affect, look, our welfare when it comes to homeland security as soon as we get them. We have made a commitment to this and we're going to stay true to it.
Thanks so much, Jeanne Meserve, at our homeland security desk following up on this.
By the way, I mentioned to you just moments ago that there is new information on Massa, the congressman. I'm going to be sharing that with you in just a little bit. I just want to get comfortable with it. I am looking at it now on my laptop, but I want to make sure I am comfortable with the information before we go with it. So stand by, because this is the kind of story that we -- I expected would move, and it looks it has. Meanwhile, take a look at this.
We have got a lot of interesting tape on this protest that suddenly sprung up today in Washington, D.C. It is newsworthy, because it is so different from the other protests that we have seen. We have seen a lot of Americans coming together, in some cases orchestrated as well, to protest against President Obama's health care reform plan.
These are Americans coming together to protest on behalf of President Obama's health care reform plan. We are going to take you into it. We're going to let you hear what they are saying, let you know what they are all about, and we're going to talk to one of its organizers.
Also, this. And this is a protest about jobs, jobs, jobs. It is the same thing that many Americans are interested in, except this is not an American protest. We will tell you where it is. Stay right there. We are going to be back with more of THE LIST.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Welcome back. I'm Rick Sanchez. Number on the list of stories of high interest to Americans, because we all drive, an out-of-control Toyota Prius. Here is the story.
Jim Sikes says he was cruising down a hilly freeway just outside of San Diego yesterday, tried to pass another car, and when he did, he says that the gas pedal just jumped and it got stuck, and then his Prius just took off. Sikes says he tried to turn the car off, he hit the brakes, tried to pull the gas pedal. He said it went all the way up to 94 miles an hour. Here, take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SIKES: I was just holding on to the steering wheel with my left hand and I was down at a angle trying to pull the -- just tried it back. I thought it was maybe just stuck. I mean, my mat was perfect. There was nothing wrong with my mat. And the pedal, it wouldn't do anything. It stayed right where it was.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Yes, he goes on to say that he could actually smell the brakes, he was hitting it so hard. And then he called 911. Highway patrol pulled up. Have we got some pictures here? Yes. Highway patrol pulled up. They got on the horn. They told him to hit the brakes. He put on the emergency brakes.
And as it was going uphill, it finally started to slow down. When the car finally slowed to 50 miles an hour, the trooper was able to get in front of him and kind of pressure him into stopping.
That is how the story goes.
Grant Bevill has a master's and a Ph.D. in mechanical engineering. He knows this kind of stuff, specializes in biomechanics, computer engineering, what causes car accidents.
All right, it sounds like to me you are the perfect guy to talk about. I'm confused about this whole thing. First of all, in this particular case, the story itself, let's start there and I then I want to ask you about this whole problem with Toyota, because, as an American, I want to know and as a dad who might have kids driving, I want to know.
Let's start with this accident. Does this thing add up to you, does it make sense, or is there something fishy about this guy's story?
GRANT BEVILL, MECHANICAL ENGINEER: Yes, thanks for having me.
Nothing sounds too fishy about this accident, but it does sound like there were multiple that factors contributed to it. And...
SANCHEZ: Why didn't he just turn off the ignition? That would have been easy. Shouldn't that do it? And if not, why not hit the emergency brake? BEVILL: Yes, it sounds like he tried to turn off the ignition and it didn't work when the vehicle reached a sufficient speed.
The first thing I would recommend that somebody would do if they're in that type of situation is to try to get the vehicle into neutral. Certainly, brakes typically have the power to override a car that has a runaway acceleration problem, but that is not always the case, if the operator applies the brakes slightly or if there is some other malfunction with the vehicle.
SANCHEZ: All right, tell me, as a person who would never be able to understand the way a car is engineered, how it is possible that you can press the accelerator and it can actually either get stuck or continue to go up by itself and go faster than even you are pressing it? How is that possible?
BEVILL: Well, the car involved in this incident is fairly complex. We have a hybrid vehicle that has a fly-by-wire acceleration, and there could have been a failure at multiple points or at any point. Somebody would have to inspect it to see what happened.
Certainly, it could be a mechanical binding in the accelerator, or it could be a software glitch downstream from that accelerator tied to the throttle.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: So, as a guy who knows this kind of stuff, you're a mechanical engineer, you believe, you buy into the argument that it is possible for these things to be happening as they are, and you can reason, mechanically, how it can happen?
BEVILL: Well, your question brings up a good point. I do believe that this is a real problem, but it also has a pretty low frequency rate in the Toyota vehicle fleet.
Certainly, something that is difficult to prove is that there can be a component at times of operator error. It doesn't sound like that was the instance in this particular incident, but it is a possibility.
SANCHEZ: You think this is going to be something that Toyota can get a handle on, or is it going to be difficult to do so? And I guess, you know, the obvious question is why haven't they been able to do it yet?
BEVILL: Well, I think it is something that they will be able to eventually work out, but I think the complicating factor here is that they have so many problems that they are facing, between floor mats, mechanical binding of accelerators and software glitches, that sometimes it is difficult to resolve which factor is actually contributing to a particular incident and to resolve that in the entire fleet.
SANCHEZ: A real honest-to-goodness mechanical engineer who is an expert on some of the things that many of us as Americans don't understand, especially how a car is put together and how the acceleration actually works.
My thanks to you for taking time for joining us on this.
BEVILL: Thank you for having me.
SANCHEZ: All right.
Take a look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Dead-set against this happening on U.S. soil. These terrorists murdered my friends.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: All right. Here is how some on the left are seeing the president of the United States. All right. Go in there so we can see it. It is too hard to tell. You see that? You see Obama on the left and the George Bush? That's right. They think he is morphing.
Also, this. He is against everything that is pro-gay rights. Guess what we just found out about him? Remember what I said? He is against everything that stands for pro-gay rights. And guess what we just found out he is? You talk about intriguing. You betcha.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: So much news to bring you, but let's get to lists.
He is a state senator in California. He has made a startling statement that no doubt makes him a candidate for our most intriguing. He is a long-time Republican representing voters in the conservative- leaning Bakersfield area. His voting record is steadily and consistently against all gay rights measures. For 14 years, he has voted as such in the state assembly of California, including helping to shoot down a bill to allow same sex couples to marry.
But last week he was arrested for a DUI reportedly after leaving a gay bar in Sacramento. Here is what he told a radio interviewer yesterday, quote, "I am gay. Those are the words that have been so difficult for me to say for so long."
He goes on. "But I don't think it is something that has affected nor will it affect how I do my job." Let me remind you that his job in large part has been to stand firmly against gay rights issues in California for 14 years. He is divorced, a father of four, and now out of the closet dealing with accusations of hypocrisy.
California Republican state senator Roy Ashburn. More about him, and his revelation in the next hour, but for now, he is our "Most Intriguing."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CROWD: What do we want? Health care.
When do we want it?
Now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: This the big protest going on outside of Washington. As a matter of fact, when you watch, this you will find out that some folks were arrested, about ten of them, I understand, from what we understand, who wanted to be arrested and. Who are they and why are they there and why are they supporting President Obama's health care reform? We will explain and have one of them joining us in a little bit.
Also, as we go to break, you know what, this made my list, so I'm going to share it with you here. Well, let's do Wolf Blitzer do this tease. Wolf, come on in.
ANNOUNCER: When we return, our own Rick Sanchez signs into Chat Roulette to get a new perspective from America's genitals.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Welcome back. I'm Rick Sanchez.
Don't usually do car chases around here, and in fact, it is against our policy. This one though, obviously, it is not live and not taking place, and it is amazing to watch. So let's do it.
All right, this one seems to never end. Stolen Jeep, man and woman inside. Police led through neighborhoods, wrong way, on to the highway exceeding 90 miles an hour, going through someone's backyard. And going 30 minutes and the driver bails and runs, then finally gives up, but not before he takes the police to this.
He was wanted on several outstanding felony warrants according to police, and this is one of those that makes you wonder why it is that these people will ever be let out of jail. Let's do the next one.
Yes, this is getting rowdy, angry. These are people who work for France's major oil company Topol, not happy with the company's plan to close a refinery there. They are mad about the prospect of losing their job. They are smashing windows and slugging it out with authorities at the company headquarters.
The company says that no one will lose their job, but it doesn't look like these protesters believe that. They are screaming for them to tell them what they say will be the truth. That is "Fotos."
All right, lots of news going on, including the guy with the devil on his shirt. That's Ben Roethlisberger. There is some movement on the accusations against him of assaulting a 20-year-old woman. We are going to be taking you through that, and I will be talking in fact to somebody who represents that area, Baldwin County, and is an expert on the criminal justice system there. Also, this --
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, my god. Back up. Reverse.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Yes, these are the storm chasers. This is their video. This is what they do. We get this in, and we share it with you.
And also, everything having to do with Congressman Massa. This is really like a riddle, this story, and we are going to try to get to the bottom of it for you.
By the way, you want to be on our show? Love to have you. All you have to do is to call this number, 1-877-4CNN-tour. If you are going to be in Atlanta and be on the set with me, call that number, and we will be happy to have you.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Welcome back. I'm Rick Sanchez.
Boy, we have a lot of stuff going on, but I want you to watch this. The Obama administration is reconsidering its plan to try the 9/11 suspects as criminals in a federal court. This makes our list because it's a decision that could come soon on whether to move these trials back to the military courts.
This is an emotional issue for many people, especially those directly touched by what happened on September 11th. So, we wanted to put it together for you, we wanted you to understand both sides of this story.
Here to do that for us is one of our best, CNN's Susan Candiotti.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Every time retired New York firefighter Tim Brown visits Ground Zero, he remembers every detail.
(on camera): When that first tower came down, where were you standing?
TIM BROWN, CO-FOUNDER, THEBRAVEST.COM: We were right here on the sidewalk here outside of the World Trade Center when it collapsed.
CANDIOTTI: That must have been terrifying.
BROWN: It was terrifying.
CANDIOTTI (voice-over): Brown demands the president do and about turn and scuttle the attorney general, Eric Holders plan to try accused 9/11 mastermind Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and four others in civilian courts.
BROWN: We should not give these scum terrorists the protections of our most sacred document in America, the United States constitution.
CANDIOTTI: A fellow retired firefighter Jim Riches, whose son was killed on 9/11, says a civilian trial is the answer.
JIMMY RICHES 9/11 VICTIM'S FATHER: They're nothing by terrorists and criminal who murder people, and that's where they should be tried in federal court, just like we tried 200 other men and gave them long prison terms.
CANDIOTTI: On Sunday, Senator Lindsey Graham told "Face the Nation" he will press fellow Republican to shut the prison at Guantanamo if the president abandons civilian trials.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM, (R) SOUTH CAROLINA: I'm going to need people from the Bush administration who tried to close Gitmo to put aside partisanship, rally around this president, stand , close Gitmo safety.
CANDIOTTI: Closing Gitmo is an unfulfilled campaign promise that the American Civil Libertarian Union has not forgotten. The ad they took out in "The New York Times" shows President Obama morphing into President Bush if the president doesn't stick with civilian trials.
LAURA MURPHY, ACLU LEGISLATIVE DIRECTOR: The president is at a critical point, and he could be on the verge of a colossal mistake for the safety of the American people and for the image of the United States and abroad.
CANDIOTTI: But when it comes down those who personally knew victims.
BROWN: I am dead set against this happening on U.S. soil. These terrorists murdered my friends, 93 of my friends.
CANDIOTTI: Some say enough is enough.
RICHES: It is nine years later, try these guys finally, please.
CANDIOTTI: How will the debate end? An answer is expected in the next two weeks, one that may not satisfy either side.
Susan Candiotti, CNN, at New York's Ground Zero.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: I'm kind of fired up.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: So, the president of the United States takes back the bully pulpit. Is it more of a successful strategy for him than trying to legislate within four walls inside of Washington? That is what a lot of folks are saying after they watched yesterday.
And then Congressman Massa, Eric Massa, is he really troubled, or in political exile? What in the world is going on with this story? Because to be perfectly honest with you, what we know right now, and like to speak for you guys, because I know what you are thinking, because I am reading the e-mails and the tweets, it don't add up, good grammar or bad.
Roland will join me in a little bit to talk about this on R&R. There he is. He also did an interview with Winnie Mandela, and I want to show you a piece of that. This is interesting as well. Rick and Roland when we come back.
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SANCHEZ: Let's get to this, because this thing has been bothering me all day long. This Eric Massa story, the congressman, this doesn't even make sense. I know it does not make sense to you.
First of all, let's go through the facts because a lot of the folks in the business, journalists like to feign outrage -- "Oh, my god, did he really say that?"
What did he say? Well, so far, we are talking about a guy resign and getting into an ethics investigation, because he said at a party "And I grabbed the staff member sitting next to me and I said, what I really ought to be doing is" then he uses some strange word that I don't know what it means. "And then I tossled the guy's hair. Was that inappropriate of me? Yes."
That's it? Can you say "big deal"? Well, I don't think that there is anybody who doesn't kid around with their coworkers, who doesn't go play golf on the weekends, and you say things are inappropriate and you don't lose your job because of it.
So, he does this, and apparently there's an ethics investigation because he joked around with a friend at a New Year's Eve party, and it was a wedding for a staff person, and for this he was going to be investigated, and it doesn't add up.
So then Eric Massa comes out yesterday and he says, no, it is not about that, it's about the Democrats because they are trying to get rid of me, because I am the no vote on Obama's health care plan. We have that tape. Let's play that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MASSA: Mine is now the deciding vote on the health care bill, and this administration, and this House leadership have said quote, unquote "They will stop at nothing to pass this health care bill." And now they have gotten rid of me, and it'll pass. You connect the dots.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: All right, so, let me bring in Roland, because he is probably as curious and inquisitive as I am about stuff like this.
There it is, baby! The "R&R" open.
(LAUGHTER)
OK. Look, nobody gets fired because they say something stupid, because if that were the case, none of us would work. So, he said something dumb at a party -- big deal. I say dumb stuff all of the time, and so does everybody else who is watching right now, especially if you are at a New Year's Eve party and you have had a couple of cocktails.
So if this guy is gone because of something he said at a party or the fact that he really didn't do anything wrong, but the Democrats are pushing him out. The question then is, why are you leaving? Why don't you put up a fight?
Roland, I will be honest, as a journalist, I don't get it. maybe you can explain it to me.
ROLAND MARTIN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: As a commentator I get to give my opinion. Rick, this is a fraud of a story. It's a genius move by Congressman Massa. Let's see, I've been accused of making a comment, groping, doing whatever. We don't know. It's all kind of stuff out here.
SANCHEZ: Yes.
MARTIN: So I'm now going to flip the script, I'm now going to accuse the Obama White House as well as the Democrats in the House for trying to go after me.
Now all of a sudden he's a conservative media hero. Here's what's amazing. He was going to vote against the health care bill not because he doesn't like it, because he said it doesn't go far enough. So all the conservatives saying he's now our hero, he actually wants a more stringent deal.
SANCHEZ: He wants universal health care. This guy was for universal health care at one point.
MARTIN: I'm not buying this. Rahm Emanuel came to me, he wasn't even wearing a towel. You and I have been in locker rooms. How many times perfect strangers walking around after showering. Dude, it's clear, Congressman Massa, you're trying to shift the focus to them because you don't want it on you. It's real clear. It's a great move.
SANCHEZ: But what's -- and we can't get into this, because look, at CNN we have policies. And if you want to look up what's being said about this guy on the Internet, you are free to. You all have computers at homes. If you want to check it out, check it out. But to report this story as if all the facts are in just seems a little crazy to me.
MARTIN: They're not.
SANCHEZ: Let's leave it at --
MARTIN: Here's the deal. If I was accused of making a comment or doing something, or whatever, and I know I didn't do it, I'm not going to quit my job. No.
Again, first it was I'm retiring because of cancer, then there was an ethics investigation, then a comment. OK, why don't you stick with one story to why you're quitting. Now all of a sudden you're pushing me out? No.
This is a nice, genius move, get the attention off me and put it on someone us, and the idiots who hate the president are falling for it.
SANCHEZ: You know who remind me of -- I better not saying that. I was going to say me, because when you're curious about something, it makes you crazy.
MARTIN: It's like looking through a window going, I can see what's going on here.
SANCHEZ: There is more information. I guarantee it will be out there. In the meantime, look on the Internet because we have to keep to a certain set of rulings and guidelines as far as what we do.
Let's do this. Let's take a quick break. When I come back, I want to talk about the president of the United States, whether he has a new strategy, whether and what the bully pulpit better, and what Winnie Mandela said about him. Stay right there.
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SANCHEZ: President of the United States using the bully pulpit, did so yesterday. Apparently he's going to do it again tomorrow. And what's Winnie Mandela, what does she have to say about him? Roland sat down with her. Here it is. Let's play that sound. And Roland, you can amplify it for us. Play it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WINNIE MADIKIZELA-MANDELA, SOUTH AFRICAN POLITICIAN: I think it's one of the most cruel thing to expect him to have done more than he already has within just one year -- generations and generations of oppression, even though this is one of the longest democracies.
I think his task is even more difficult, because I think the African-Americans, for instance, will expect more, and countries like the African continent would expect more from him because he's African- American, and realistically it is unfair.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Put a punctuation on that for us, Roland.
MARTIN: First of all, the question was for her to assess her thoughts about President Barack Obama being the first black president. She made that particular comment.
But also, the position she sits in is very interesting. South Africa is on its third black president since apartheid was shut down. And you've had so many people who, as she said, want more change. They want more things to happen.
She talks about the issue of time. She was there in Birmingham, of course, for a lot of the commemoration events surrounding the Bloody Sunday march, which was about Voting Rights Act.
Keep in mind, you had the Montgomery bus boycott in 1955, but the Civil Rights Act and the Voting Rights Act didn't come until ten years later. The point present day is so many Americans, young people, African-Americans, you know, independents, others who voted for President Obama saying, well, it hasn't happened fast enough.
And you say, wait a minute, how did you think it was going to happen in 12 or 14 months? That's what she was thinking to, that people have to understand that it just doesn't happen overnight, it's just nonsensical.
SANCHEZ: By the way, there was a protest for the president by the way, in Washington, D.C. And we'll be taking you through that as well in just a bit.
Roland, we're out of time. Wish we could do it longer, as usual, but we'll catch up with you.
MARTIN: Absolutely. Look forward to it.
SANCHEZ: Appreciate it. Roland Martin, our CNN contributor.
As I did mention, there is a protest in Washington, D.C., a protest interestingly enough for, that's right, for, as strange as that may sound, the president's health care reform. Who are they? What did they represent? I'll be talking to one of the leaders of this organization in just a bit. Stay right there.
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